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We Just Can't Beat Them - Ep. 61
393 Plays2 months ago
In arguably the most tragic L Pod in Lobbing Scorchers history, we unfortunately recap Seattle’s latest defeat to LAFC, this time 1-0 in the US Open Cup semifinals. Was it a penalty kick? Was Jordan Morris offside? We weigh in on the controversy at Starfire.
Later on we hit our Agenda Check, take your questions and preview Seattle’s upcoming Cascadia rivalry matchup at the Portland Timbers.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsorship
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of Lobbing Scorchers is sponsored by Full Pole Wines, a Seattle-based seller. Not only are they a local company, but they've been supporting independent Seattle soccer media since 2011 and are run by Sounders fans. They offer the best boutique wines in the world to members of their mailing list with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest. Their model is simple. One, they email compelling offers. Two, you request bottles that sound appealing. Three, your wine arrives at their Soto warehouse and is ready for pickup or shipping. Their Soto tasting room is also open to the public.
00:00:29
Speaker
If you're interested in joining their mailing list or learning more about them, visit fullpolewants.com.
Episode Introduction and Recent Match Overview
00:00:36
Speaker
What's going on, everybody? Welcome to episode 61 of Lobbing Scorchers. I said the last one was 61 and it was actually 60. This is episode 61 of Lobbing Scorchers. This is Ari Lillian Wall. I got producer Noah here with me. Noah, we've got an L-pod tonight. How are you feeling?
00:00:55
Speaker
I wish we wouldn't have recorded a 60. I wish that we would have just skipped straight over to 61 because, wow, that for sure was a match that was played. It's a tragic L-Pod tonight, folks, as you're not going to believe this, but the Seattle Sounders lost to LAFC and got eliminated from a tournament by LAFC. Shocking development, can't believe it, hasn't happened before except for the
00:01:19
Speaker
two previous times that has happened in the last calendar year including one like two weeks ago. 1-0 loss in the US Open Cup semi-finals at Starfire Sports Complex. We're going to break down the game in our game review. We're going to hit our agenda check and we're going to take your questions. Not really looking forward to it but you know it has to be done unfortunately. Then we're going to preview this Saturday's Match Day 31
00:01:46
Speaker
match day 30 matchup against Portland Timbers. So, you know, no rest for the weary right into a big rivalry match against, you know, Seattle's top rival at Providence Park for the second time this year. So, lots to talk about, even though it is an unfortunate L-Pod, but we don't shy away from results here at lobbing scorchers.
Travel Plans and Collaborations
00:02:09
Speaker
We tackle them no matter what happens on the field, so.
00:02:13
Speaker
But before we get into that, a few housekeeping items at the top of the show. Number one, just a general heads up, I'm going to be going out of town this weekend, starting tomorrow, traveling back on Monday. So that might push our schedule for the post Portland pod back just a little bit. You'll probably get your fix on Wednesday.
00:02:31
Speaker
Realistically, we're probably looking at a Wednesday drop. So sorry. I know usually we try and get it out one day or Tuesday and people get antsy. But we're going to do our best. But unfortunately, I'm going to be in an airplane all day on Monday. So I know I can't record under that circumstance. I wish I could. I don't think my fellow passengers would appreciate it. I would do it. But technologically, it just doesn't seem feasible. He can't get he can't get blacklisted from the airlines before, you know, we go and win MLS Cup and have to play away.
00:03:01
Speaker
If you want an update on when it's coming out, just check my Twitter. I'll let you guys know.
00:03:08
Speaker
I also wanted to shout out our new friends over at Happy Foot Sad Foot, LAFC podcast that we collaborated with for a preview for this game that just happened. Great guys had an awesome interview with them. We ended up cooking for almost an hour. It was a good segment. It'll be dated now because the game happened. But you can still go back and watch it, pump our numbers a little bit.
00:03:36
Speaker
Definitely go subscribe to them and pump their numbers
Sounder at Heart Network and Community Engagement
00:03:39
Speaker
as well. We have a cultural exchange going on between Happy Foot Sad Foot and us and also if you want some really good content that you know it doesn't really matter when I went on their their live show right after the game ended
00:03:54
Speaker
And there was a lot that happened. Let's just say so. I think it's I think it's good. I think we've like actually managed to kind of make peace to whatever extent was possible with with the LFC fan base who there's been some tension at different junctures. You know, whose fault is that? I'm not really here to say it's not either way. I think that we've established some rapport and, you know, they beat Seattle every time. So I think they're they're probably
00:04:23
Speaker
I mean, I know they're happy about that, so anyway. Also, I wanted to let you all know, Lobbing Scorchers is a part of the Sounder at Heart podcast network. If you want to get the best independent Seattle soccer coverage, please consider supporting us by going to sounderatheart.com slash LS. That's sounderatheart.com slash LS. Scroll down to subscribe and support to get 30 days completely free. Every sign up through our link helps support and grow this show.
00:04:49
Speaker
And we are going to read out the supporters' names on this show. I do have to pull them up really quick. That was bad podcasting by me, Noah, but I got this right here. Kenneth Wade, Joey Pascinelli, David McCoy, Owen Mason, Dan Pavato, Samuel Fau, Ian Mitchell, Christopher Smith, Norm Bontye, Thomas Martin, Greg Hoker, Chris Maley, Andy Hill.
00:05:13
Speaker
Mike Latini Nate Bonnier David Rodriguez my nephew CJ and Miles Maranakis Mark Audinger Zach Heckman David Pope Brian Morton Claire burger Robert Sink Tyler Nakatso Steve who son and Choska Thank you all so much. We love and appreciate all our paid subs and shout out to the banyas who I met at the open cup game Oh, no way. Yeah, they were looking for you too, but I was up in the little media area I don't even call it. So it was kind of funny. Actually, I'll do a little story real quick. Yeah, I heard you got there late a little bit
00:05:43
Speaker
I got there before kickoff, but so the Starfire press box is very small and I guess Apple TV pulled up and they were like, we have 27 cameras. We're going to need to take up this entire thing, which usually like every other open cup game I've been to at Starfire, I've gotten at least a seat in the press box. Maybe not like the best VIP seat, but I've gotten a seat.
00:06:05
Speaker
But there were so many cameras in there for this one that they set up like a completely outdoor seating area for all the media that was in attendance. So I was sitting at a table with no Wi-Fi, and it was actually kind of nice because
00:06:20
Speaker
I kind of just got to sit there and watch the game and soak in the atmosphere. And I didn't have the distraction of like doom scrolling the entire game. So it was it was fun from that perspective. But yeah, no, I wouldn't have gotten to really hang out with anybody. But that's sick that you met the Banyas. We love the Banyas. Yeah, they were they were great. Also, one more who just like just went through. I think this is our game are Patrick Sexton.
00:06:46
Speaker
Patrick Sexton, our Yamar, number 28. Oh, man, I thought that the road to 28 was not accomplished, but apparently it is. We did it. Patrick, we love you. Thank you so much, man. Thank you, Patrick. Thank you. So now we need help on the road to 29.
Match Analysis: Seattle Sounders vs LAFC
00:06:59
Speaker
Can one person out there who's listening to this right now, who hasn't yet, go to sounderatheart.com slash LS. Throw us some support.
00:07:08
Speaker
Apologies for the world's longest intro, but we will get to this game. We're just we have so much to handle I've got more housekeeping unfortunately, but just real quick if you haven't yet, please sub to the YouTube Road to 500 subs is on we're at 477 So we're churning right on there and that's a big milestone for me. I want to hit that five spot I think we're gonna get it before episode 62. So thank you to everyone who's subbed on the YouTube and
00:07:32
Speaker
Shout out to our new audience who's discovered us on there, too. And our Yemar. We appreciate you guys. And our Yemar. Patrick, you the man. All right. Yeah, you're right, Noah. Let's, uh...
00:07:41
Speaker
Let's be done with all that and get into this game review. Honestly, I've been kind of just trying to put it off. I don't want it. I think that's fair. So Seattle Sounders 1-0 defeat to LAFC. That is 9 straight era. 10. It was 10. 10 straight unbeaten for LAFC. There's like six straight wins. Eight of them have been wins. It's like 10 to 1 goals or something in the last three or four games. I'm just firing off what I kind of remember the stats being off the top of my head.
00:08:11
Speaker
those might be a little off, but we're not here for accuracy. We're here for vibes. It's not good. That's what I can tell you about the, uh, the splits in this series. I mean, it's not even splits right now. It's just, it's not a competition. It's not a competition. Um, but this, you know, the one, the manner in which this L took place, I mean, it was different than the last two, but, uh, that almost made it more and made it more painful. I think the fact that, uh, you know, the last two times these teams have played, it's been kind of a joke of a game. LAFC is kind of just running riot the whole time.
00:08:39
Speaker
And winning by three goals This one was there for the taking for Seattle and they just couldn't quite get it done So let's talk about why that was first starting with our lineup reaction Which I don't think again like they've been running the same lineup every week So there's not all that much to say about the lineup reactions other than Andy T got the start in goal instead of fry Which I was fine with Andy T's been getting some running leagues cup He did well in a couple of these other open cup games including the penalties the one in penalties that they went against the quakes
00:09:09
Speaker
So no issues with Andy T starting and I was fine with the first choice 11 as it's been for the last few weeks. I think that gave Seattle the best chance to win. Good to see Paul Rothrock back out there as always. I thought he put in a good shift. Do you have anything about the lineup that
00:09:29
Speaker
I think the only thing we had talked about and we got correct was we thought we would see NDT out there and I think that that was a solid choice and People were I saw okay. I saw okay I saw an insane take of what someone thought or what they would put out there and they had Rowell starting with no Rusnak and PDLV out there I
00:09:56
Speaker
I don't really know what people expected from this match, but I feel like what they put out there was legitimately their best chance of winning.
00:10:13
Speaker
But all right, let's talk about how this game played out itself because I think my first observation from this game is that Seattle didn't do enough early in the game to set the tone and get on top of LAFC. This was a scenario where you had them. You had them.
00:10:31
Speaker
playing on the road in a very advantageous environment, just like historically, if you look at Seattle's record in this building, they have lost two games, both of which were in PKs, I think, you know, and this was the first time they ever lost in regulation. So historically, they have a huge advantage playing at this venue. We talked to the Happy Foot Sad Foot guys all about that. We gave them the Starfire education. They didn't know what was coming.
00:10:55
Speaker
They said I undersold how bad the turf was. We tried to tell them. But the point is, you're playing an opponent that's playing in an adverse environment that's also tired. They were coming off a very emotional loss in a final just days earlier.
00:11:31
Speaker
they were not
00:11:32
Speaker
They're kind of sitting back a little bit. Seattle let them have possession. But as far as getting up and down like they normally do, they really were not doing that. They were kind of just keeping the ball and then trying to loaf it over the top to Bwonga or another runner. And that was pretty much their game plan, which I was like, OK, Seattle needs to capitalize on this. They need to get on the front foot, get on top of LAFC.
00:11:56
Speaker
generate some like high percentage dangerous chances early, try and get in their heads a little bit, use the crowd and the environment to your advantage, set the tone, right? It didn't really feel like that ever happened. It felt like LAFC's game plan like they just kind of settled into it and it was like, it was not a
00:12:17
Speaker
was just not there's not enough juice there yeah i agree it didn't feel it felt like a team coming into a game scared a little bit like the sounders were like a little bit timid i felt like they knew they had a plan but i don't think that they were fully sold that they were going to be able to execute it and i feel like they kind of played like that and i don't think that
00:12:39
Speaker
It was a bad plan, necessarily, as the game goes on and we'll cover. But yeah, I agree with you. I think LA that 45 minutes, that first 45 minutes is so crucial on that field because it takes teams about 45 minutes to figure out what the hell. I mean, I was thinking more like 15 to 20. Like if you if you could get a goal in that first 15 to 20, uh,
00:13:02
Speaker
That that would have died. That's you really need to do that if at all possible and I think the fact that Seattle was not able to score early in the game and in the first half it uh it let LAFC hang around it gave them belief and It's sort of you know, the longer you let a game like that stay zero zero the more dangerous a game you are playing especially against a team like this so I really felt like
00:13:26
Speaker
It was a missed opportunity early in this match to get on top of a tired opponent that is playing in an unfamiliar, hostile venue. And all the advantages that come with Starfire that Seattle has used to such great effect over the years, they didn't capitalize on those in this game.
Controversial Calls and Referee Inconsistencies
00:13:46
Speaker
And really, I was going to say this takeaway for later, but it's kind of a good segue. I'll just dish it now. I think I feel like the kind of the lore and the intimidation factor of Starfire is not really like a thing anymore. Well, OK.
00:14:01
Speaker
This was the first game they ever lost in regulation, but like the quakes game the quakes played them straight up and got him to PKs The shootout and then last year the quakes like beat him and then just in general like how the games have been going It's like they're hanging on for dear life Seattle used to
00:14:17
Speaker
the game.
00:14:33
Speaker
I don't know. To me, it just didn't feel like the home field advantage actually played that much of an effect last night. And it wasn't really because the crowd or the environment was lacking. The crowd was- It was bumping. It was bumping. ECS was going off. People were ready. Before kickoff, you could tell how hyped everyone was. It was loud. LAFC had a pretty big contingent of people. It was probably the best open cup environment I've seen there in a long time.
00:15:02
Speaker
Yeah, no, I definitely agree. But Seattle, again, couldn't take advantage of the boost that that typically gives you, or at least has given them historically. So I think that is one factor that I think kind of led to this result.
00:15:21
Speaker
this game was all about these two controversial calls so we're gonna break these down there's no goals until the it was like the 83rd or so minute when lfc gets awarded a penalty kick so let's break down this uh let's break down this penalty sequence they brought in a train load of cash ari and they paid these officials ari they brought in they used those train tracks that first train that came by it didn't honk ari you know what it was full of
00:15:47
Speaker
Was full of dirty money for those So yeah a lot of people were very upset about this call and It's both okay, so both of these calls are tight. Yeah, they're very very tight They're both kind of 50-50 for me, but we can I think you know
00:16:09
Speaker
More than blaming the refs, I think sometimes in this situation, it is just interesting to talk about if they made the right call or not just theory of the game type stuff. But also, I mean, I will say like the ref was bad, like out independent of these two calls in terms of like having control of the game and like what he was calling fouls and what he was letting go. There was no consistency and all like I get all that and I agree with all that. I mean, at the same time, it is the open cup. That's it would be more shocking if the ref was competent.
00:16:39
Speaker
Correct. That is a variable that you're going to have to deal with and that both teams have to deal with in equal parts. So overall, my take on the ref is that it's just kind of part of the game when it comes to these Open Cup games. But I do understand why these two calls in particular were controversial because they were both very
00:17:01
Speaker
up for debate type calls. So let's talk about this penalty. Bogus lines up a shot. De La Vega and Alex Roldan are both jumping in the box to try and block the shot. They have their arms tucked, Alex Roldan does at least, but Bogus sends the shot right into De La Vega. It looked like
00:17:19
Speaker
You can't tell from the angle that I saw if the ball hits De La Vega in the arm, like deflects off his arm before it hits Alex. As I understand it, on record, the handball went against Alex, not De La Vega.
00:17:35
Speaker
I don't think De La Vega like I don't know if it's relevant like if it hit like where it hit on him because I don't I could be wrong about this but I'm pretty sure like I was told that Alex the the handball call was on Alex see I have heard the opposite so you know spit with that take and then I'll spit with my with my view okay
00:17:56
Speaker
I mean people people are taking your side. I feel like too well I mean I don't know if I really have a side other than that like it's a very tough call I don't really know what he's supposed to do as like he's got his arms tucked like It's I don't think his arm was out in an unnatural position yeah But
00:18:18
Speaker
you are kind of putting yourself in a dangerous situation like when you can test like that with I kind of like the uh maybe like put your arms behind your back that a lot of defenders do the new who you do the chicken wings yeah exactly and if it hits you in the chicken wing maybe they call it maybe they don't but you maybe like uh i think both the way de la vega and alex rolled on both went up
00:18:41
Speaker
They work susceptible to that happening in that situation. It was a reckless last ditch like thing that I think Probably had they had that shot just gone off. I don't think he's scoring that I mean, it's bogus so he might he might but like you do have to try and contest it you do have to try and block it but even with your arms in like this and
00:19:03
Speaker
if unless you are really unless you contort your body so they're like really the ball can't hit them like that can happen. Yeah. So I think really it's just it's a tough call. But
00:19:18
Speaker
It's very unlucky. It's tough. It's just tough. It's unlucky regardless. I think the way that I saw it in the clip that I saw, it clearly hits off of De La Vega's outstretched arm as he's turning away. His arm's kind of moving with his body. It deflects off his arm and hits Alex. And from what I thought it was called on De La Vega, but Alex got a yellow for descent in De La Vega.
00:19:43
Speaker
Okay, that could go yellow for the handball Did you know cuz you got a yellow to as they both got yellows and people thought it was for handballs on both of them But I thought one at least one of them was for dissent I think one of our one of our I think MLS ref stats who follows me and this thing follows the show That's what I think here's the more important point with this call, which is that I'm actually gonna institute a new policy. Okay. Okay. Yeah, okay
00:20:07
Speaker
If you're playing at home and you get shut out and you lose on a 50-50 PK call, if you didn't score yourself, then you shouldn't complain. You don't get to complain about the penalty. If you don't get shut out at home, that penalty call doesn't beat you. So I think that's how I look at it, at least on some level.
00:20:30
Speaker
like you need to be able to score in this game, ideally before the 83rd minute. And you don't lose on that. You give yourself a chance. Now, however, with that being said, I have a take on this Jordan offside call that I think that I know that a lot of people disagree with, but I'm going to cook on it because
00:20:50
Speaker
I saw a lot out there on Twitter that I'm not sure that I really see the same way as everyone else, okay? And you can tell me- You're a free thinker, Ari. You can tell me if you disagree with this. I think we might agree. Okay. I think we might not. Oh.
00:21:05
Speaker
So when I saw it live, I was like, oh, that's going to be tight. But I honestly couldn't tell. And then I looked at the replay on Jada Evans or Jeremiah's computer. And I still couldn't really tell. But I was like, I don't really know if he's, I don't really see him off there. But I could be wrong. And then I saw a bunch of screenshots coming out of people being like, oh, yeah, see, this clearly shows that he was off.
00:21:35
Speaker
And I looked at all those screenshots and they, he looks like he was on. He looks like he was on in those screenshots. Aaron Long looks like he's holding him on. I don't know if I'm taking crazy pills or if I'm seeing something that like, or other people are seeing something different than me. Um, but I, uh, like I, it's like, it's, it's such a close call. Like I don't, uh,
00:22:00
Speaker
like if they if the ref called it offside on the field i don't know like i i can see how they would let that call stand right but i'm just saying like based on what i saw like the screenshots that people were tweeting out that showed him clearly off looks to me like he was on i'm not pulling up for you know yeah i'm ready we're we're gonna do some live looking at this tell me if i'm bugging but
00:22:26
Speaker
I'm going to show this to you right here. Yeah. He says it's close, but it looks like he was indeed offside. Aaron Long is keeping him on right here. Here's what I would see. There's a seam in the pitch right here between where this layer of turf goes across and this layer of turf goes across. If you follow that line all the way across, his foot is on the next seam of that strip of turf. And Aaron Long's is clearly like about half a foot or a foot in front of him. So I think he was offsides by the slightest of margins. But here's what I'm going to go with this.
00:22:56
Speaker
If you're gonna give them a 50-50 penalty, let the person who actually can score a goal let it stand. Well okay so this is the other thing that I was gonna say and like this is neither here nor there at this point like it's not like I don't I really don't I'm not saying that Seattle deserved to win this game or anything like that
00:23:12
Speaker
But the referees are literally trained to let that go and then you can check the VAR and wave it off. That's like protocol now is in that situation, you're supposed to leave your flag down and then they check it after. If they had done that, there's no way based on the screenshot that we were looking at or any of the replays that I've seen that they could have overturned it. And I don't know.
00:23:32
Speaker
I just hate calls like this where we're talking about like blades of turf. You know it's just it was very clearly a AR that was not used to using VAR technology because in any in our modern VAR world you don't raise that flag unless it's miles offside because you can check or that you can like clearly to clearly tell which maybe I know a lot of people definitely
00:23:58
Speaker
think that he was clearly offside. I just think at best it's another 50-50 debatable situation. But again, if he called it off on the field, I can see why they didn't change it.
00:24:16
Speaker
really stung so bad though regardless of if it was like offside or not to to like the fact that they were fighting back they they were actually like it was an onslaught of attacking capability george manungu comes on he's generating offense he would have got a secondary assist on that goal yeah like
Seattle's Struggles Against LAFC
00:24:36
Speaker
it felt so right it felt like they had implemented a game plan they had gone down but they were like it doesn't matter we we know we can come back from this which is like that grit that we've been talking about that we thought maybe the sounders had lost that
00:24:51
Speaker
but it was like oh it was like so poetic nine death of the game what was it like 94 93 I was a little earlier than that but it was way it was like way 80s it was like late 80s death of the game just like oh come on it God I'm still still pressed about it
00:25:12
Speaker
So yeah, it gets called offside, Seattle gets shut out. Shout out and rest in peace to the Open Cup. It was a good run, great tournament. We did our best. LAFC is hosting Sporting Kansas City now, the club of professional wrestling enthusiasts. This stings even more because Seattle would be hosting Sporting KC in the Open Cup final if they had won this game, which
00:25:35
Speaker
I mean, they were competitive, they got close to pulling it off, but they couldn't quite do it, and it's just a really bad L for a whole host of reasons. You get eliminated from the Open Cup, you don't get the Champions Cup spot, and this is a good segue to just my rapid-fire takeaways. I just got three of them this week, I'm gonna lay them down, you can tell me what you think.
00:25:55
Speaker
I mean, the other unfortunate thing about this is the LAFC owning Seattle storyline only has more fuel after this. I mean, they came in here three days after getting eliminated from the league's cup by the crew who own them and came into what's been historically one of the one of if not the most difficult places to play anywhere in MLS that any any host venue that any team has. This offers like the statistically most prolific home field advantage in terms of what Seattle's record is here.
00:26:24
Speaker
They came in here and they executed their game plan perfectly. Like when you're in like a backs against the wall on the road, playing on short rest with heavy legs type situation, you really cannot play it any better than they did. They slowed the game down when they needed to. They did not let Seattle get cooking in transition. They mucked the game up in midfield. They really... Dude, Kai Kamaro was doing the devil's work out there. That man was just a disruptor.
00:26:52
Speaker
they were able to like manage the pace of play and like the tempo like i think better than any road team i've ever seen like even in even in those quakes games those were like frantic back and forth that was track that was that was
00:27:08
Speaker
Energy drink type of stuff and the quakes get sucked into that type of thing LA FC I mean credit credit to them they manage the game extremely well and when you do that you give yourself a chance like if like for like a crazy penalty call like that to happen, you know and
00:27:25
Speaker
They executed it perfectly, and Seattle just didn't, like I said earlier, they just didn't capitalize on all the advantages that they had in this situation, which I really think it was, a lot of this game was gonna come down to getting on top of them early, not giving them that hope that they developed over the course of the game, the longer it stayed zero, zero. And I think Seattle kinda got what they deserved in that respect, because if you can't,
00:27:54
Speaker
You can't score a goal in the game at least before that offside goal and before that penalty goal happens. You're asking for it, aren't you? You're asking for that exact outcome. I'm just so sick of watching LAFC do this.
00:28:12
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, I can't keep getting away with it. Honestly, like I agree with you 100%. This is the best that Seattle have played LAFC and the last Matt, I don't even know, couple of years, couple of years, like, and it took a lot of crazy variables. Exactly. I was going to say it took LAFC on short rest after bombing out of another major tournament, the fee, a field that is like statistically and emotionally draining and.
00:28:40
Speaker
Like they still couldn't even do it. And honestly, we were very lucky that LAFC weren't up one nil even before that penalty because Jackson Reagan made the most insane big melon dome clearance I've ever seen in my life. But he knew nothing about it. No, no, no. Not at all. He woke up like 10 minutes after that play.
00:28:59
Speaker
Yeah, like that was Kaikomara like just unleashed Rocket right at the like right on target and Jackson Reagan was just standing there and it hit him in the face Yeah, and that's the only reason that that wasn't a goal. Yeah, you're right like maybe with goal line technology. That's a goal You know what I mean? Like he was standing in the goal. You never know like I it just sucks that the best we can do against like probably the best team in the West is
00:29:25
Speaker
Not even win. Not even win against their diminished squad. It took all those variables of League's Cup and the Travel and the Starfire variable to get it to a 50-50 toss up and you still couldn't score a goal. You still couldn't beat him.
00:29:41
Speaker
I mean, they own you. They own us. Like, that's just the cold, hard, unfortunate reality of the situation. There's no way at this point that you can look at 8-0 and 2 and come to any other conclusion. And that is sadly going to be the case until Seattle beats this team.
Roster Changes and Strategic Needs
00:29:59
Speaker
And, like, there's a very feasible scenario where these teams play in the playoffs again. Yeah. Seattle would have to go to LA, BMO Stadium in that circumstance.
00:30:11
Speaker
I mean, do you have any faith at all that they would, that they would even be competitive there? No, not at all. Why would anyone, you know, there's like no track record to, uh, to lean on anymore. You know, um, probably 19 Western conference championship was a long time ago, man. Like we're talking about a 10 game sample size of this stuff here. And, uh, this was like, you will not have a better opportunity to buck that trend than this.
00:30:39
Speaker
And the fact that they couldn't take advantage of it, and with a trip to a final on the line, man, it's tough. That was like the most heartbreaking LAFC loss for me, simply because I kind of expected it to happen. But at the same time, it was like the stars were aligning in a way that they will never align again. And somehow, some way, we still fumbled.
00:31:05
Speaker
Yeah. So that kind of brings me to my next takeaway, which, uh, I mean, this gap has to be closed for Seattle to be a trophy contender. Again, if you can't get through this team, you're not going to be winning anything. Uh, and there's, I think there's quite a lot of work to be done to close that gap. Um, signings need to be made. The roster needs to be bolstered and, uh, like that's going to happen. Like.
00:31:34
Speaker
before the start of next season, man. It should have started already. And I think that's where the irritation, people have a little bit, they have righteous irritation in that sense because it feels like something that could have been predicted and accounted for, you know, and I don't know. It's just tough. And then my last, I wanted to do De La Vega takes just because we've been doing that every time he plays. Just, I mean,
00:32:05
Speaker
He didn't really make the impact subbing on that. I would have liked to have seen any got called for the handball, but this was the literal opposite of what I wanted and predicted. Yeah, so not the best de la Vega shift. You know, he's still working his way back to fitness and this was a Starfire game. He's never cooked on Starfire before.
00:32:26
Speaker
There's a lot like Hugo Louris was out there that like seeing Hugo Louris and Bewonga at Starfire that was pretty fun Yeah, like you know you just it's stuff that you don't really see every day Paul Rothrock was there to Hugo Louris going at it on That is her field. Yeah, anyway but
00:32:45
Speaker
uh de la Vega it's still good to see him healthy and hopefully he put i mean basically uh any prospect that this team has of contending this year is predicated on him having like a late season breakout which i don't think that's particularly likely given his fitness levels and just like he he doesn't really look like that sharp yet
00:33:06
Speaker
He doesn't look good. He didn't look good in this game. I thought he looked good in the Minnesota game. Yeah, but there's nothing to play for there. You know what I mean? League points. I mean, yeah, but it's like, I don't know. There's a lot more on the line in this game against a much better opponent. Yeah.
00:33:26
Speaker
I'll grant that but like I still I mean I would say I still think there's reason to be hopeful that he can have an impact going into this last stretch of games and into the playoffs but it's certainly that's not a guarantee and if that doesn't happen like you're gonna get to the playoffs and you're gonna have to play one of the LA teams or we all saw Lake on the road and
00:33:48
Speaker
That is we pray for the galaxy that it but even that is going to be like like the last time they went there they lost. That's true. And I still would not want I would not want to mess with Ricky Puj and Joey Paints and Gabriel Peck in a in an elimination game in their building at all. Not with the not with the team in this state. You know so.
00:34:09
Speaker
like it's just it's going to be an uphill battle to actually contend this year but uh you know there's still a scenario where it could happen i guess but god damn it it's just uh it's just a tough hell to stomach man this is a tough hell to stomach yeah i
00:34:33
Speaker
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00:34:59
Speaker
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00:35:29
Speaker
I don't know. I'm at a loss for words a little bit because we tried so hard but got nowhere. And in the end, it didn't even matter. What's the point? What are we gonna do? I guess we'll just have to hit agenda check to get ourselves to this. Yeah, let's hit this agenda check and then we'll get to your questions. I've only got three agendas written down for this week. You can let me know if I forgot anything.
00:35:57
Speaker
So I have the Craig Wibes, everything is fine agenda. Craig Wibes at his presser a couple weeks ago famously said that, what was the quote he said? I won't lie. I would be lying to say that I'm disappointed with where the team is at or something. And I think the main thing was the rationale he used was, you know, we're in this, we've got this far in the league's cup. We got this far in the open cup. We're in this playoff spot.
00:36:23
Speaker
So this season's actually going pretty well if you look at the fact that we're contending for all these trophies and we're in decent playoff positioning. It was really a bad start. We've been hot lately, and it's all good. I mean, you just got eliminated from two out of the three tournaments that he mentioned by the same team, which is the team that you're chasing right now. Which isn't even the best team in the league, by the way. No. I mean, yeah, they're top two to three. But you're right. I mean, Inter-Miami and Columbus both better. Columbus much better.
00:36:54
Speaker
so that's the team you're chasing in the west though and they eliminated you from two out of those three tournaments and eliminated you in the playoffs last year all three at home by the way all three in your own building they came in here and punked you in your own building so they robbed you at your house basically the way I see it you have to
00:37:15
Speaker
Make a run You have to make a run tamales cup for for this agenda to to hold weight other otherwise you're hanging your hat on like competing but not winning anything and that's just not what this team is about this team is about it's about trophies and like and I think that's like the
00:37:38
Speaker
That's the thing at the end of the day is like playing at 1.6 points per game and then getting beat by LFC in for everything that matters. That's like not what this club has traditionally aspired to and prided itself on. So like there's a standard that's got to be met here that.
00:37:57
Speaker
With this, with how much they've been getting dominated by LAFC lately, it's just like not getting met right now. I think honestly this is on life support. If I'm Craig Weibel, I'm like actually a little bit scared. Like I'm a little bit scared for my job, just potentially, because I understand the restrictions that they were under, but the fact that
00:38:19
Speaker
your rationale behind everything and behind being okay with and not even showing disappointment or like you know we could have done better you know like taking a little bit of responsibility is hey we're in league's cup man which like yeah I think people were like oh we have a chance maybe if we can beat LAFC like we can get there we could we could maybe do this
00:38:42
Speaker
And then it's like, okay, it's fine. We still have two more. We still can win open cup. We can be the first MLS club to five. Uh, we can, you know, we have like, there was, there was something historical and important to play for. And boom, LAFC beats your ass again.
00:38:58
Speaker
in the perfect scenario. And you had them in the perfect scenario. And then now it's like, okay, yeah, we can make the playoffs. Sure. Can we go on a run? Yeah. Is there a historic precedent that we can do that? Absolutely. But guess who you're going to have to play up against LAFC. And now fans are like, I got duped once. I got duped twice. I'm not getting dupes again.
00:39:16
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, and like, even if even if by some miracle, LAFC gets knocked out before you have to play them, like you're probably you're going to have to play the galaxy or RSL on the road. Right. And those teams are really good, too. Like you have to be able to hang with teams like that.
Team Performance Review and Listener Questions
00:39:30
Speaker
And I don't know. I mean, they did boat race the galaxy last time they played. But, you know, going to their place in the playoffs, that's a whole different animal. And I don't know. We'll see what happens. But yeah, I think you're right. This agenda is on life support.
00:39:44
Speaker
Uh, the second one I had was the, is LAFC more hated than Portland agenda. So we brought this one up at fast fashion and it got a pretty negative response. Uh, the, uh, coop from the cooler guild wasn't happy with us because, uh, like, you know, everyone knows, okay. Everyone knows that Portland is the most hated rival. Like I know all the history, obviously. And I'd like, I don't think, I don't think the question is really like, who's the bigger rival, but it's more just like, who do you hate more at the moment?
00:40:13
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that's a different question than who's your bigger rival. So maybe we could have framed it differently. But like this is way better. Clickbait are you? But like I. Like right now, LFC just grinds my gears more than any team in the league, because I mean, this is this is about as much as you can own another team like it really is. Yeah. The only saving grace is the 2019 Western Conference championship and the fact that Seattle does have CONCACAF.
00:40:42
Speaker
Yeah, so those are two things that like Seattle can point to but like just if we're talking purely like head-to-head results over the last two years Like it's I mean, it's a joke. It's a joke. It's it's and listen Do I think about Portland on a daily basis? Absolutely not. I genuinely do not think of them like
00:41:01
Speaker
I think about Denny Bewunga. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. It's like, it's like, I don't fear Portland. Like, I mean, and maybe that's a little bit of cynicism from getting our ass handed to us a bunch of times. They were doing the same thing before the last game. Yeah, exactly. But you know, it was like, we got our get back and now I'm like, all right, who gives a shit?
00:41:18
Speaker
You know what I mean? It's like, we got Paul Rothrock. He'll handle business. It's all good. They're just not as relevant in the scope of the league right now as LAFC is. LAFC has established themselves as one of the standard bearers in the league in terms of their roster billing and their fan support and their organization and everything like that. Portland, not as much. I don't know. Some people probably don't take that into account, but I definitely do. I agree.
00:41:46
Speaker
And then we have the Georgie should get more minutes agenda. I got this mark down as strengthened because I think he like a few people said he should have subbed on earlier and I agree because you mentioned it when we were talking about this a couple weeks ago like Starfire is like his office. That's where he throws down. Yeah, like that's his grandma's house. He could have made like a
00:42:07
Speaker
If he'd had more time, maybe he makes a bigger impact, but even he had the secondary assist on the JMO goal that got waved off. So, um, like he, he made a play. Um, and anyway, I'm, I'm down to see him, to see him play more. Like I don't, I still don't know like how functionally different what he gives you right now is going to be than what you get from like Leo chew. But like, there is a move Leo chew.
00:42:33
Speaker
Yeah that but also like with Leo Chu you know with Georgia you don't. There's like the lure of the unknown and also the possibility that like it legitimately pops and you're like all right this is a guy that can actually be like a first teamer for us.
00:42:49
Speaker
Yeah, it's like in football manager when you're scouting players you sign a dude He thinks gonna be a wonder kid and he turns out to be like a three-star and then like Georgie. It's another one You're like, oh shit five-star potential baby, but we don't know till we till we see but I was encouraged by his performance and I thought
00:43:07
Speaker
We sure as hell didn't lose the game because he was on the field and I would have loved to see more minutes from him. But I also kind of understand when he came in and why he came in. The Saunders were kind of handling the game up until that penalty. And then when shit goes off the rails and you got to push everyone forward, that's when he comes on and he generates a lot more offense. But I mean, maybe maybe seeing him early would have.
00:43:33
Speaker
The game would have played out differently. Who knows? I hope we get to see him play a little more down this. Congrats to him for signing by the way. Yeah, that's a big deal. It's a big deal. And I think it shows the work he's put in and also just the fact that he's a pretty talented guy. So hopefully we get to see him more in this last run of games for the end of the season and into the playoffs.
00:43:52
Speaker
All right, let's get to questions, Noah. Let's do it. We've got them lined up here. What do we got? We zipped in. We put on our hazmat suits and waded in to the Twitter replies. Thank you all for your questions. As always, if you are looking to get your question answered, hop into Ari's mentions on Twitter.
00:44:11
Speaker
Let's start here. Dougie asks, how chocked is the season now? Because even if we make it to the playoffs, we will. We can't beat LAFC and we would need to go through them at some point to get to the cup.
00:44:24
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, we were kind of just talking about that. But I mean, it's seeming pretty chalked for that exact reason. It's just pretty hard to come up with a scenario where in a one off playoff game at LAFC or like I said, even at the Galaxy or at RSL where where Seattle gets by those teams like it could. I'm not saying that it's impossible. Like I thought it was pretty impossible in 2019 and they won that game.
00:44:52
Speaker
That 2019 team was, I mean, that was like peak Nico, peak Raul though. That was a great team in its own right. Like this team has been playing at 1.5, 1.6 points per game. They've been playing, to be fair, they've been playing at two points per game over a very large sample size against everyone who's not LAFC, but that's the problem.
00:45:15
Speaker
Like, when you look at the evidence of when they go head to head against LAFC, there's just a very stark gap. So, yeah, I'm not. Dougie, I think you're...
00:45:25
Speaker
pretty much right unfortunately yeah I think our best chance of making a cup and I'm not gonna say winning a cup is if someone else knocks LAFC out for sure from some godforsaken reason like if if like they love to fumble they do love to fumble and like we will be watching that in this cup final against sporting which I will get to who we each personally will be rooting for but
Rivalry Dynamics and Emotional Impact
00:45:49
Speaker
Oh, I forgot to mention this They got us back with champagne after beating us a tenth time on the happy foot sad foot podcast. Honestly, that could not be more fair Yeah, they I I knew that we were opening ourselves up to that and I am totally okay with that like like, you know, I've been clear that uh
00:46:09
Speaker
The reason we take so much joy in LFC fumbling finals is because that's all we have right now. That's how chocked we are. All we have is watching a club be so successful that we can only hope for them to lose. When they make finals, which they do in pretty much every tournament that they play. They're addicted to making finals. And fumbling. And fumbling. But I forgot to tell you this. This was actually funny. Someone came up to me at the game when I was walking to the press box, and they said, hey, Ari.
00:46:39
Speaker
Love the champagne bit and I said thanks. I didn't think of it. It was no oh, hey I Gave you your credit. Thank you Ari. I you know we wouldn't be but shout out to that guy Shout out to that guy. I met so many people at that game. There's a lot of you sickos out there. I love we love you guys Okay, what's the next one? Sorry? We're getting we're getting in here next one from saffron elephant agenda sounders will not win any hardware until they can beat LA FC and
00:47:07
Speaker
That's a good one for the agenda check. And it's a true statement like, uh, like you, you have to, you have to be able to beat this team. Like I tend straight games, but I just like, I can't believe that.
Roster Rebuild Strategy
00:47:21
Speaker
Like I've, I don't know if I've like,
00:47:40
Speaker
and then a team that's not as good as the other team gets went over on them just purely because of those variables. Seattle had those variables. That's why I felt pretty good going into this game. Not because I think Seattle's anywhere close to as good as LAFC, because they're not, but because you had them on the ropes with the circumstances and you still couldn't do it.
00:47:40
Speaker
seen anything to
00:47:57
Speaker
still couldn't do it I mean listen I look at history I look back to look forward the only time the last time we won something significant where we had to like face that team was when we beat them in 20 what was it 2019 yeah so
00:48:15
Speaker
There you go, that's agenda smashed, demolished, correct. This next one comes from Matt Drumdog. Honestly good L. Maybe now the FO will finally grasp that this roster is simply not good enough to truly hang with the big boys. Really wanted to win the open cup against the club of professional wrestling enthusiasts, but it would have been validation for a timid transfer approach slash roster build. How do you feel about that?
00:48:41
Speaker
I mean, that could be true, but honestly, man, I think there's a lot of changes that were coming regardless just from a practical standpoint. There's no way Raul is gonna be back as a DP, so you're gonna have to replace one right there. So there'll be a new DP from that perspective. And then also, I think there's gonna be a decision made on JP, whether he's gonna be back.
00:49:08
Speaker
there's gonna be a decision made on whether Obed signs like a U22 extension or if he gets sold. So I think there's going, if there's an upshot to any of this, it's that there's going to be changes and turnover out of necessity. So the team is going to look pretty different next year. I think the source of irritation is just that
00:49:34
Speaker
like the feeling that this could have been planned for and like the transition could have started sooner and just been handled in a way that would have allowed Seattle to actually compete with the big boys this year instead of just basically becoming LAFC's lap dog.
00:49:52
Speaker
What it feels like to me is what I would do in elementary school, middle school, high school, and college where I would wait until the last second to do my assignment, speed through it, and would not do very well. I'm honestly scared that, yes, there is going to be all this roster turnover, but do you truly believe that in one window, maybe two, one and a half, two windows, they can
00:50:15
Speaker
restructure this whole squad and do you think that do you have trust that Craig Weibel who wasn't even able to get half of a deal across the finish line in this last window do you really have confidence he could do that?
00:50:29
Speaker
Yeah. See, I guess one thing I would say to that is that like I don't think blowing up the whole squad and like starting over from scratch is necessarily what needs to happen. I agree with you. Like I think that you I think if there's something that we've learned this year that's positive, you know, trying to be positive.
00:50:49
Speaker
It's that the foundation that's in place is solid and that there's some stuff that you can work with here. I really think, you know, some people disagree with me, but I really think that the Rusnak Morris duo has shown that it can be very dynamic and productive in MLS. I think the defense for the most part has played pretty well this year, but I do think what we were talking about with Nico Moreno a couple years ago of them being too easy to play through
00:51:14
Speaker
in midfield at times is something that needs to be addressed. But overall, the spine of the team, the goalkeeping between, we'll see what happens with Fry. He's almost 40. But I think Andy T. has shown out this year. I think Jackson Reagan this last month has started to look like a foundational piece again. I think Yymar is still an upper tier CB in MLS.
00:51:39
Speaker
I would like to see a fullback edition. I think you need a Brad Smith, Jovan Jones type attacking fullback that can bring something that Nuhu and Alex Roldan have not been bringing this year and that RBW is just simply not ready to bring on a consistent basis.
00:51:54
Speaker
So I think that's one area of need. Uh, I agree with Nico that, uh, like a destroyer type six, you know, like an Aussie type. Yeah. There's the, this team doesn't have enough, like, uh, like nastiness and bite to it, which is something that I've actually been saying for awhile. Like it's a little too many nice guys. Paul.
00:52:12
Speaker
Rothrock can't hold down the whole mean guy bit. Exactly. You need a little bit of that juice and swagger nastiness. So I want to see him sign a D-mid that has some of those attributes. And then the biggest thing is just more dynamic and consistent production from out wide. You're 10 and you're 9.
00:52:30
Speaker
can't shoulder everything week after week, but just because once you play against an elite defense like LAFC, they're going to be able to mitigate that a little better. You can get away with a soft part of your schedule.
00:52:47
Speaker
run in Rusnak and Morris like up the middle and that can that clearly can power you through that but like I think to ascend to the next level you gotta you gotta get more production from Outwide which was what De La Vega was supposed to do but like what I think is like you gotta make a signing that addresses that that um
00:53:06
Speaker
That kind of treats de la Vega as if like any you think that you get from him is like a luxury Yeah at this point and frankly you tell me what you think of this, but I think I think we've talked about this, but I think signing like a DP number nine like like like they did with Raoul if you're a few years ago like a player and that of that mold who you think can get you like
00:53:30
Speaker
15 to 20 goals at least like that type of player and then having the flexibility of Starting that guy and then moving Jordan back out wide and then when that when that DP needs to rotate out or Whatever the case may be then you can play Jordan up top again Like he's been doing very well this year. I think that's the approach I would take rather than keeping Jordan as the as the lone centerpiece number nine and then signing a winger if that makes sense
00:54:00
Speaker
I think that's an interesting piece. I think as Jordan ages though, the problem is going to be he's going to get slower and being a winger, big body guy who's not necessarily going to beat you with speed is not really helpful. Like he's a great nine.
00:54:17
Speaker
simply because he is really fast, but also in the last few years he's gotten a lot stronger and physically better with the ball being played into him over the top through this like in weird positions. So I kind of fear like it's just the normal trajectory of certain players, right? Like as players age, they lose certain abilities and gain others.
00:54:37
Speaker
I don't know, I think they are genuinely in one of the toughest roster situations of any team in the league. Because while on paper and in person it looks like they have a really solid core, if one little piece comes crumbling down
00:54:54
Speaker
It's gonna be so hard to build around and I really think like a big piece that isn't being talked about as much and you hit on it is JP because we've seen Atencio and Obed play together who are supposed to apparently be the future in the next you know Two together they look they look lost without each other that that double pivot like it could well be effective at some point but I would not I would sign somebody there I would not bank on that because like
00:55:23
Speaker
However many positive attributes both those players have which there are many like we open Obed in particular is having a phenomenal year But they don't bring that nastiness in that bite that I was talking about like you do Like Flores from Toronto was the guy that Nico brought up like yeah You need exactly like you need a guy like that like a ball winner guy who's gonna get into tackles gonna get some yellow cards like in Oz in Aussie type player That's what I want at least if I could if I could pick
00:55:51
Speaker
one profile of player to sign it would be that and then I mean you got to sign a Raoul replacement and you know a lot of people want to move off Rusnak I think you know that's if you find someone that you know is better then yeah fine yeah but I also I don't think there's anything wrong with building the offense around him again next year I know a lot of people disagree with that but
00:56:13
Speaker
I've seen enough this year where if you can I would I would focus more on building the Reinforcements around him then I would on Replacing him but that being said like I'm not if they find someone who's better by all means like go get him It's just that's harder to find that I think people realize yeah, I know I agree and not to belabor the point We'll wrap it up here, but
00:56:35
Speaker
I think that what happens that's really just gonna make this process so difficult is the fact that they didn't do anything in this summer window, the fact that they didn't buy out a DP, the fact they didn't make any movement or any talks or whatever that could actually went anywhere because now you're in a situation where you have Rusnak who you could make a centerpiece or you could go out and find someone else. The fact that
00:57:04
Speaker
they don't have that option now. Now it's like Rusenak has all the leverage to be like, well, I'm going to be a DP. He's coming off some of the best production I've ever seen. So he completely deserves that salary from that point of view. So I don't know. I really think the Sounders are in the shit with this roster rebuild. And I just don't know if I have faith that Craig is going to be able to actually redo all of that in one or two windows to be competitive.
00:57:34
Speaker
So it's a fair point. Thanks for that question, Matt.
Open Cup Final and Conference Strength
00:57:37
Speaker
I think that's the longest question we've ever cooked on, but I think we're going to wrap it up there. Sorry for those who we had to skip, but we only have so much time. Exactly. Appreciate, as always, everyone who submitted. You can always crash my mentions to get the discourse flowing. All right. Before we preview this Timbers game, that's on Saturday. We wanted to talk about the Open Cup final that's now set because
00:58:00
Speaker
Sporting Kansas City the club of professional wrestling enthusiasts beat indie 11 pretty handily I was covered in that game wasn't really much of a game. They could have been a lot worse than 2-0 So they're going to be traveling to face LA FC who obviously beat Seattle and that is what I call a lose-lose situation and
00:58:21
Speaker
I don't really want either of these teams to win the open cup But that does bring up some good fodder for debate because we can talk about who we're rooting for and I'll just start Noah I'm definitely rooting for sporting cases only because Like
00:58:41
Speaker
LFC fumbling another final at home to this sporting KC team, which is not good They know they've gone on an open cup run credit to them to making the final. They're having a really bad year in league play bad team Soccer not good at it. Nope. Yeah, so like
00:58:59
Speaker
I'm fully expecting them to get boat race by LAFC. I don't think this game is gonna be competitive or close at all. I think LAFC wins by multiple goals easily. But that would make it all the funnier. If LAFC fumbles this, we're getting more champagne and we're getting hammered on the next podcast. Correct, yeah. I mean, and let's review who Sporting has had to play. Tulsa, FC Dallas, and Indy 11 to get here. They have not faced
00:59:28
Speaker
any real competition they have no chance like they have no chance they're about to face a demon a demon at la fc they're so cooked but i will i i think they like they're more cooked in this scenario than just about any team
00:59:45
Speaker
Because like because they're they're like bottom of the table. Yeah Most like you've seen teams in the past There's the year famously where DC United was like wooden spooning and they won the open Yeah, so like that stuff can happen and it's happened in the past. This is very much an example of a lower tier team in MLS right now like you said like
01:00:06
Speaker
let's
01:00:25
Speaker
to root for them, but also like, God, how nice would it be for another final fumble? Like back to back. Like I, I've gotten a, we've gotten a lot of, I've gotten a lot of new LAFC followers from this most recent podcast we did. I fear they may unfollow me all of sporting wins because I will be in full. I still have my sporting Jersey. I will be running around.
01:00:49
Speaker
waving that thing up in the air, dude, that's not even going to be funny. Yeah. Like, so I'm, I'm rooting for sporting Casey. Um, but I will be blackout drunk if they win. I definitely like, don't, it's not like I have my hopes up or have like all that much emotional investment in it. Like as soon as LFC scores, the first goal it's not, I'm not going to feel anything. Yeah.
01:01:11
Speaker
But listen if you hate or if you love the open cup and you hate the club of professional wrestling enthusiasts Think about it this way The open cup is all about underdogs and who is the underdog in this match sporting Kansas City? Therefore by those rules you have to root for them
01:01:26
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, maybe they troll, maybe they troll a PK victory. I don't know. It could happen. Doesn't feel very, very promising though. All right. You had one more topic you wanted to hit before we do this Portland preview. Yes. And I know this is going to be a long pod, but folks, we had to lay this down.
01:01:41
Speaker
With this most recent week of results, we saw the League's Cup Final happen where Columbus just basically put the spanking on LAFC and then now LAFC coming in and putting the spanking on the Sounders. And I really wanted to pose this question, Ari. Is the West just a complete joke compared to the East?
01:02:06
Speaker
how big of a talent gap is there compared to LAFC and Inter Miami and LAFC and Columbus? I don't know about complete joke, but there's certainly a pretty big gap right now. I still think like they're flying a little bit under the radar right now because Messi's been hurt and like they haven't really had their full complement of players. But like I still think Inter Miami is the most loaded MLS team I've ever seen. And I still think that they play the best ball that I've ever seen an MLS team play. I saw a tweet
01:02:35
Speaker
from somebody I can't remember who that I disagreed with. That's why I'm bringing it up. After the crew won, they said Columbus clearly plays the best soccer of any MLS team they've ever seen. Don't think so, man. I think this inner Miami team on their day, you might disagree with me, no? A lot of people might disagree with me. I would take Miami in a one-off over Columbus. Assuming full strength, I would. I would. And I would not feel very
01:03:06
Speaker
much like anxiety about that pick. Like, and you have to, I'm assuming like Messi is full go operational. I'm assuming the Barca boys are all healthy. So like, if any of those variables come into play where it's like a depleted or injured inner Miami team, then yeah, like the crew for sure can win. But like, like an Eastern Conference championship between those two sides, like I would pick Miami. All of that's to say like,
01:03:33
Speaker
Columbus is very much like they have a good argument for being considered on that tier They actually have the trophies to show for it this year So I'm basing it just on like I test of like type of soccer that they're playing but Columbus they play If they if they don't play the best ball in the league they easily play the clearly second best ball in the league and they've won they won MLS Cup and they won League's Cup and
01:03:58
Speaker
Yeah, so like those two teams right there are clearly the best in the league and they're both in the East Cincinnati before they got destroyed by injuries were I Think probably just as good as LFC in the galaxy hundred as good as I think they were better
01:04:13
Speaker
Like like they easily I don't know LFC since he is a good debate at least. Yeah, but like like team number three and yeah in the yeah exactly and then even even getting down to the year that the that the Red Bulls are having That's where it becomes more like they could be like a team in the West. Yeah, but
01:04:32
Speaker
like they're still having a really good year but I think that top three of Miami, Cincinnati, and Columbus are definitely, I mean that's better than the LA squads and Salt Lake. Like really right now in the West, like the LA squads are running it and the galaxy for as much credit as we've given them on this pod, like they've shown
01:04:57
Speaker
They've shown signs of fraudulence at times, and I think LAFC basically still runs the West, so I think there's something to what you're saying. The East is definitely a lot better. Yeah, and the way that I wanted to also approach it to you is, let's look at the table here. Five, six, and seven in the West. Seattle Sounders, Vancouver Whitecaps, Portland Timbers. You have the Pacific Northwest conglomerate.
01:05:20
Speaker
four, five, and six in the Eastern Conference, New York Red Bulls, New York City FC, and Charlotte FC. There is a very large skill gap, in my opinion, or just quality gap right now between the Red Bulls, NYC FC, and Charlotte versus Seattle, Vancouver, and Portland.
01:05:38
Speaker
I don't know. I think the Red Bulls are better than those. I think NYC, they're a big upside team. They look really awesome at times, but they're a very young team that's susceptible to taking bad results because of their inexperience. They do troll a lot of draws. They troll a lot of draws. And then Charlotte, I kind of see as a team that's pretty much on that exact Seattle Vancouver Portland level.
01:06:04
Speaker
So like I do think I do. I think the top is much stronger than once you get into the mids, it's pretty comparable. But like the the top of the East is just so much better than the top of the West. Yeah, I don't know. Like then if you look at the bottom, Chicago Fire, Nashville, D.C. versus sporting St. Louis and the earthquakes.
01:06:27
Speaker
I still think the East beats out there, but that's like, that's like, dang, that's the worst team. It's funny looking at this right now, Chicago, Nashville and DC all have the exact same record and pretty similar goal differentials. They're all having like the exact same season, which is kind of interesting. But, uh, no, I mean, it is, uh, the East is running the league right now and I fully, uh,
01:06:51
Speaker
like i think la fc if they have to go if they have to travel for mls cup to columbus or miami like i don't think they're i don't think they're winning that i i guess i wanted to ask too i feel like this shift happened in the last like three or four years because i think in the past the west was pretty heavy-handed and i'm sure that this is the cycle of the league but
01:07:28
Speaker
two to three years where it became more stark because Columbus has really only gotten insanely good in the last couple years. Miami has only gotten insanely good in the last year or two. And then Cincinnati was one of the worst teams in the league for a while. Same as Miami. These are teams that have been on the ascent for the last one to two years and are now at their apex. So I think it's sort of just kind of how teams have cycles, right?
01:07:40
Speaker
Do you remember or have any note of when you think that switch kind of happened?
01:07:58
Speaker
all three of those teams, their cycles just kind of lined up at the same time. And they all just happened to be in the East, but like, uh, you know, from 2014 to like 2020, I'm sure, I'm sure if you actually went back and looked at it, it would fluctuate by the season a little bit, like which conference was stronger. But I feel like the West definitely was stronger than it has been this year, where this is kind of the weakest. I can remember the West being in a long time.
01:08:24
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I thought last year the West was pretty weak, but for me, I don't know. I think the only team that can even compete with the top of the East is LAFC and clearly they can. Yeah. Like they haven't shown that they can. I mean the crew, the crew have the best goal differential in the league, you know, just looking at the table right here. It's like, it just,
01:08:45
Speaker
Just seems pretty obvious that it's honestly Miami and Columbus who are running it right now. Yeah, which I guess I'll Cement this segment with a sounders related question if we see a team like FC Cincinnati and inner Miami go from bottom of the table wooden spoon contending cheating sanctioned clubs to
01:09:09
Speaker
God mode world beaters do we think the Sounders can do that and is that going to happen? Whether we spend a lot of money or not a lot of money Yeah, it can happen fortunes can change very quickly in MLS and Really all it takes is I think when you have the foundation that Seattle has some of the players that they already have in place and
01:09:36
Speaker
like hitting on one big attacking signing that'd be huge like that could boost this team a lot you know so I really it's just a matter of if they're able and willing to do that you know but like I guess I might see it a little differently than some people in that like I
01:09:56
Speaker
I think there is a lot of work to do with the roster, don't get me wrong. I don't think it's crazy, crazy far off. They just need to actually do that work and not keep putting it off. But MLS, as much as any league with the salary cap and how it's set up, your fortunes can change on a dime with
01:10:16
Speaker
One by hitting on like realistically Seattle needs to hit on two of their next big signings and they need to be big hits to get there. But that's that's doable. It's not impossible. Right. You just have to have to do it.
Match Preview: Seattle Sounders vs Portland Timbers
01:10:32
Speaker
Well, yeah.
01:10:33
Speaker
There we go. Let's get in our second, our secondary rival put the Portland timbers. Okay. Yeah. The Seattle Sounders are going to Providence park on Saturday where they'll be taking, do we have to the Portland timbers? I don't want to Ari. Yeah, which is not great timing for this matchup coming off this loss to LAFC, you know, a dub over LAFC would have really drastically helped the vibes before this game.
01:10:59
Speaker
But yeah, I can tell you about the Portland Timbers. The Portland Timbers are, they're not that good, but they do score a lot of goals. They're one of the most dynamic offensive teams in the league, but they love to get bammed on. They love to get bammed on. They give up a ton of goals. I can actually tell you exactly how many right now.
01:11:15
Speaker
They've given up 46 whole 46 goals this year Which is the most out of any team above the playoff line like the teams with the worst defenses in the West are sporting Kansas City St. Louis and San Jose who have all given up over 50 goals. He knows he has given up 61
01:11:34
Speaker
rocks which is crazy negative 28 G but Portland has given up 46 goals they've scored 54 which is the most out of any team that's of any team in the West and the second most it looks like of any team in the league and in Miami has scored 58 but the Portland Timbers scored 54 goals
01:11:56
Speaker
Second most in the league their home record is seven two and four So they're pretty hard to beat at Providence Park Seattle did hand them one of those L's at Providence Park earlier this season So remember to yeah, it was a 2-1 victory that was really Diaz scored a really sick goal in that game I was before our our sounder at heart days
01:12:15
Speaker
It was yeah, it was a long time ago. But so that was I mean, that was an important dub because for as much as LAFC has dominated Seattle in recent times, Portland was doing the exact same thing, leading up to that game and Seattle finally snapped that streak. So you can at least go into this game with that kind of psychological weight not on your mind anymore.
01:12:36
Speaker
It's a get-back game to get right game. I don't know why they're playing I think they play again in Seattle like later like to close out the season like yeah before I Thought it was the final decision day game. I think it might it's either it's either a decision day game or the one right before it It's like one of those two yeah, either way it's the second straight game that they're gonna play down at Providence and
01:12:59
Speaker
I'll have to fact check this. Someone can tell me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that both Jonathan Rodriguez and Felipe Mora are going to be out for this game. I'm not sure if that's injury or suspension related, but if that's the case, that kneecaps their offense a little bit. Those are two of their best goal scorers. Felipe Mora is a very solid, consistent goal scorer for them.
01:13:20
Speaker
and Jonathan Rodriguez is their big-time DP signing who it doesn't seem like he's fully broken out but he's definitely I mean he came from Club America and but also so that is that could make it a little harder for Portland to score and produce at the clip that they normally do they do still have a vander though
01:13:40
Speaker
who has kind of quietly become one of the more productive attackers in the league. He's having a good season. He keeps doing his bit too. Yeah, he's doing the bit where he plays like a bot and then comes out of nowhere with like it would not surprise me if he scores something. He'll score a worldie for sure. He won he won a goal of the week over Albert last week to go off of ridiculous. This guy is having a good year man. He's got 12 goals 15 assists. Yeah, so he is definitely like
01:14:11
Speaker
Yeah, it's tough but I guess Seattle can hope that Portland being a little short-handed in this game can play to their advantage and then also you know a Cascadia rivalry game like this that's like a real like rivalry with history that like the LA FC rivalry dynamic just doesn't have like your form like we said all the time going into these games but your current form though what just happened to you in your last game it really like does throw it out the window doesn't matter and
01:14:41
Speaker
So a dub in this game would go a long way in turning the vibes around after the LAFCL. Seattle needs it. Seattle's right there for a top four spot in the West, by the way. So for however much doom and gloom there is going on right now after the Open Cup exit, understandably, there's a lot to play for. You're playing to vault the rapids who are only one point off their pace, played the same amount of games.
01:15:08
Speaker
So a dub here and a dub here and assault lake loss. And if Colorado don't win, you're tied for, or you're, you're up there towards, you're within one point. Yeah. So, uh, which like, okay, let's be fair though. The rabbits are playing Dallas and RSL is playing the rev. So we need a little bit, a little bit of luck there.
01:15:28
Speaker
You do but you never know what could happen. Maybe maybe they maybe one of those teams troll a draw for you so either way if you if you get the dub it doesn't matter what they do you at least can keep that pace and Stay in the mix for getting that at least that first playoff game at home, which would be huge So yeah, it's a big game. Unfortunately, I would do it. I would normally be going unfortunately I am gonna be on the East Coast this weekend, but I will be watching so we will have the they should have you on the Apple TV Plus broadcast
01:15:55
Speaker
I know they should I'm not gonna be an NYC unfortunately. I'm gonna be in Philly home of the Philly Union better better city anyway, but uh Well, we'll have that we'll have that post post game pod for you like we said on We're gonna we can shoot for Tuesday, but a hedge on Wednesday one of those two days But yeah unless you have anything else know I think let's wrap around there for episode 61 I
01:16:22
Speaker
Thank you all so much, as always, for tuning in. We really appreciate the support and the listenership that we're seeing. Our YouTube audience, we appreciate you guys for helping us expand on there. Hopefully the whole video will be up this week instead of cutting out in the middle, but I think we managed to fix that issue.
01:16:43
Speaker
like comment rate subscribe go write us a review on your podcast platform of choice yeah that honestly that helps sub to the youtube for sure for sure um give your grandmother a hug sounder at heart.com slash ls yep thank you to patrick for being our yamar thank you patrick on the road to 29 though i know there's i know there's one person out there that's going to help us on the road to 29 um we'll see you after the portland game until next time we out peace