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Episode 421: Three Weeks off much needed for this Sounders squad?
84 Plays2 years ago
Jeremiah is on vacation so Aaron fills in to host with guest and friend of the show, Mark Kastner. They discuss the Leagues Cup aftermath, their outlook on the rest of this regular season and give their takes on how they feel about this current group of players.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsorship
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime sounder supporters. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest.
Sounders Achievements Highlight
00:00:21
Speaker
Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to... There's no study at this. Here we go. Come on! Hey, Ocean! Let's go! What a save by Fry! The Seattle Sounders have done it! MLS co-pointers! Here come three games through the middle to crowd it! The vehicle! And now they truly can't stop the celebrations.
00:01:04
Speaker
Seattle Sounders the greatest MLS team in history This is a tiny doll
00:01:34
Speaker
Is
Episode Introduction and Context
00:01:38
Speaker
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another edition of No Sadietes, brought to you by Fullpool Wine, Watson's Counter, and all of our wonderful subscribers. This is episode 421, and we are recording on August 1st, 2023. My name is Aaron Campo, and I'll be your host for today. If you're wondering why you're stuck with me, it's because Jeremiah is currently on
00:01:42
Speaker
that why you young people call twerking?
Sounders' Recent Performance Review
00:01:56
Speaker
vacation. And speaking of vacation, the Seattle Sounders are also on vacation after a disastrous League Cup campaign, League's Cup campaign, which saw them lose both games to RSL and Monterey by a combined score of 7-2.
00:02:08
Speaker
We'll get into all of that unpleasantness as well as what it might mean going forward. But first, I'd like to introduce my co-host for today's show. You know him, you love him. It's our good friend Mark Castor. Mark, how are you this afternoon? Oh, I'm doing fine. As long as I don't think too much about the last two sounders games. Yeah, I'm trying not to do that too much. I mean, I guess the next hour or so will be unpleasant in that regard. But if we can just wash our hands of it.
00:02:35
Speaker
Maybe we can treat it like a therapy session and we'll feel better afterwards. Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. So yeah, let's get to it. Everybody knows what happened. No sense in, you know, dwelling too much on the RSL game, in my opinion.
00:02:52
Speaker
Blessed the better for that one. I think one of the worst performances of the season. Uh, just nothing, just the nothing performance. Um, and you know, I don't know if you have any observations you'd like to make, um, any, any takeaways from it for me. Just the culmination of, I think one of the most unpleasant periods, uh, of sound understanding and recent memory. Yeah. And it.
00:03:19
Speaker
I've been thinking about this a lot. And, you know, I'm sure if you like really kind of dug into it over the past like, decade plus, there's probably been worse periods, like I'm sure, like the end of 2013, or the first half of 2016, like, like statistically all that there, there have been worse periods, excuse me, but
00:03:45
Speaker
in terms of like vibe. Yeah, it's really nasty what we're kind of in right now. And I don't even know if it's helpful to be like, Oh, it's been worse, or they're actually better than they are. It's just like, we're going on a year plus of this, like sort of like really, really turgid experience. Right. And it
00:04:13
Speaker
What this team used to be really great at was like responding and they're not responding anymore, either. Like the man, the manager says, Brian Spencer says you, you will expect a different performance against Monterey than RSL. And that lasted for five minutes. And Monterey is a way better team than RSL for sure. But still it's just like.
00:04:40
Speaker
It's kind of, if we're kind of entering like boy who cried wolf territory where it's like, how can you like blame or disagree with like the worst detractors now? Cause it's just sort of like, yeah, this is really unpleasant. Yeah. And, and I think, you know, we we've got some time dedicated to this in the second segment that will, I think really dive into the specifics of this, but to me,
Comparisons to Past Challenges
00:05:07
Speaker
I think that Brian Schmetzer is saying those things because in the past, like you said, that's been a promise that I think that they could keep. I think that there were adjustments that could be made. I think that tactical tweaks, putting a boot up asses, that kind of stuff worked in the past. I don't think that those are the issues now.
00:05:27
Speaker
I think that that's a fundamentally different issue with this squad, with this team and where they're at. And I think for me, that's why it feels so rough because 2013 you mentioned as a pretty rough time and it was a pretty rough time, but it was rough largely because there was a really
00:05:50
Speaker
There were some weird roster issues that I think everyone knew would get worked out, and it was a really frustrating end to the season, but I think people knew there were better days ahead. And there were, right? 2014 at that time was the best season in the club history. Still the best regular season in the club history. 2016.
00:06:06
Speaker
kind of similar, right? There was a lot of turnover happening. We knew there was most likely a big signing coming. A lot of the really bad times in 2016 were just because there were so many players out injured and things like that. And then there was decisive action taking a moving on from Ziggy. And so there was a... You felt like, okay, maybe this season is a wash. Obviously, it didn't turn out that way. But even at the time, it felt like this is an exciting new era.
00:06:35
Speaker
And I think there's a chance that we'll get to that point eventually with this team. But right now, I mean, we've still got 11 games left. For me, it would almost be somewhat easier if this season were over and done with. If we knew that they were not going to make it into the playoffs without some kind of freak accident or, you know, completely unforeseen run.
00:06:58
Speaker
That's not the case, which again, we'll get into later in the show. But yeah, it's just a bummer of a time right now. The RSL game, I think, was really the apex of that. Then the Monterey game, first five minutes of that game, the attack did look legitimately great. I mean, there was a totally different energy.
00:07:17
Speaker
And I think even really until Monterrey's penalty that ended the first half, the Sounders looked completely capable of getting that third goal and at least making it interesting. I think they ran out of gas after Monterrey's goal. I mean, they had some decent moments in the second half. They had some really frustrating moments in the second half, the likes of which we've kind of gotten accustomed to this season.
00:07:42
Speaker
But ultimately it just felt like the wind came out of their sails after that penalty and that was all she wrote. Yeah. I think like the team has never, at least this season, I would even say like, I think like, like you said, they're fundamentally different problems, but, and I don't want to attribute too much of this to actually what happened last season, but
00:08:11
Speaker
There are sort of like, there's a bunch of evidence that this team should be much better than they are. Obviously, we don't kind of need to go into that. But the way that I kind of look at it sort of like, with like a tactical analysis hat on is the patterns of play to create opportunities and to prevent opportunities from the opponents are
00:08:37
Speaker
like an inch deep and a mile wide. And it's sort of like a glass jaw. Like if anybody's familiar with like boxing terminology, like it works until it really doesn't work. And then there's nothing you can do about it. And that's just like, we've seen this game like almost 20 times this season where it's like,
00:08:58
Speaker
If it works, it works really well and it's awesome and it's a lot of fun and it's great and that, but as soon as it doesn't work, a team can hang, an opponent can hang in there for 15 minutes and sort of like gum up everything. And then the momentum completely shifts and there's just no other option. Like Monterey's first goal.
00:09:23
Speaker
was just the, like one of the easiest things, one of the easiest goals scored against the Sounders all year, just because they knew if they could like hold onto the ball for 15 seconds, that the Sounders midfield wouldn't actually pressure them. Yeah.
Criticism of Tactics and Leadership
00:09:37
Speaker
They get passed through.
00:09:39
Speaker
yamars somewhere else like effectively he's grabbing a hot dog or something and they just score and it's just like oh okay that's it and then yeah i mean we'll probably get into like the stupidness of all the other three goals especially the penalty but it's just like it's on one hand like i think most of the blame rests on the coaching staff but on the other hand it's just like
00:10:05
Speaker
If you have these really excellent patterns of play offensively and defensively, or just holistically, which I do think the Sounders do have mostly, and then the players just do really stupid things all of the time to prevent those patterns from really setting in. I don't blame the coaches for being exasperated at this point.
00:10:32
Speaker
Yeah, I think that there's plenty of blame to go around with this team, right? I'm not letting anybody off the hook. Coaching staff, playing staff, training staff, whatever, front office to some degree as well.
00:10:44
Speaker
But I do think you're right that the tactical approach a lot of the time is working. Now that inability to make adjustments when it's not working, that's a major concern. I do think, you know, I think Brian Schmetzer still is a very good coach. But one of the criticisms I've had of him even
00:11:04
Speaker
when times were good is, you know, I think that he has this mentality. And to some degree, I understand it that, you know, it's the whole we're the Seattle freaking sounders thing, right? Like, we're going to go out and we're going to play the way we play. And, you know, we're good enough to do that.
00:11:22
Speaker
Right now, I don't think they are good enough to do that. Now, the situation they were in against Monterey is, I think, it's fair to bring up that this wasn't a game where a 1-0 gets you through. You know, they had to go for it. And Monterey is built to do exactly what they did against the Sounders, which is pick them apart on the counter.
00:11:47
Speaker
So to some degree, I can understand how that ends up happening in this particular game. But it's not just Monterey that it's happened against. It's a lot of other teams, as you alluded to. It's been a very common thing this season. And I think that a little bit more cynicism, tactically, would be a good thing at times. And I think that
00:12:11
Speaker
You know, a little bit less bluster would be a good thing at times. This seems not very good right now. They're not the Seattle freakin' sounders.
00:12:21
Speaker
you know, barely to Seattle Sounders. And I think a lot of that, as you sort of alluded to, is the players doing very stupid things. Albert Rosenak's penalty. This one, I maybe am on an island about, I thought was a stone cold nail bomb penalty. I think a pretty... Totally agree. Yeah. I mean, I think there was a little bit of a shove on Rosenak, but I don't think that that was a huge factor in the play. I think he just makes a...
00:12:48
Speaker
a poor decision, and I think also the pass to him was a poor decision as well. You alluded to Yamar just going on walkabout. I also thought Israel Paulo did a pretty poor job tracking the runner there. Just mistakes that for a team with this much experience and this much success. It's not like these are veterans who have always been prone to really bad mistakes. These are guys that you don't expect to make these mistakes, and they're making them pretty consistently. I just don't think their head is in a great place.
00:13:19
Speaker
And when the margins are fine, that can really cost you. And the margins were not especially fine in this game after halftime. Monterey just punished the Sounders. And to be fair, to Monterey and to the Sounders, this is one of the best teams in CONCACAF, not the best team in CONCACAF right now. They destroyed RSL.
00:13:38
Speaker
Like I said earlier, I think in a vacuum, this is not a terrible result. Monterey is just a much better team than the Sounders right now, much more talented team. But because A, it's the hope that kills you, right? Sounders came out, put up two goals really quickly, looked like they were going to get a third before Monterey's first goal. And then all of the other games, right? Like if the Sounders were in first place in the West,
00:14:04
Speaker
good form in the league, I think it'd be very frustrating to go out this early for reasons that we'll get to later on, but they're not, right? This has been a bad team since May, and it didn't make me feel great. And sort of in that vein, in the notes I took for the RSL game that got kind of tossed out because nobody wants to talk about it,
00:14:31
Speaker
I said, I no longer think this team is capable of competing. I think the early preseason and the in-season regression from key but aging players means that this version of the team is closer to their potential than the April version of the team.
00:14:46
Speaker
After that first five minutes, I was kind of second guessing myself. Something we've seen a lot this year has been Nico Ledero on short rest looks like a black hole, a net negative at times, I think, for the team, like worse in replacement level. On full rest looks a lot better. And I think even after this game turned, Nico still looked pretty good in this game.
00:15:13
Speaker
Um, so I don't know, I don't maybe feel quite as strongly as I did, but I'm not super optimistic, uh, about, about the rest of the season. And, and, you know, again, we'll get into this later on in the second segment, but I necessarily as bad as they've looked, certainly not as bad as they've looked against RSL. But I do think that when you look at the underlying numbers,
00:15:43
Speaker
and say, well, you know, there are reasons for optimism here, here, here. I think that's true to some degree until it's not. And I've kind of, I think I've kind of reached the point where it's not like where those underlying numbers don't mean a whole lot to me because other teams are letting the sounders create those patterns of play and looking for the opportunities that the sounders haven't been able to stop defensively.
Tactical Issues and Missed Opportunities
00:16:06
Speaker
because they know that they're not in much danger. And I don't know, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that because one of the consistent themes, although I think less consistent as the season has gone on has been, this is a good team, this is a talented team, they're underperforming their expected results. And the odds are pretty good if they keep doing these things, that's going to turn around. And I'm less and less convinced of that. Yeah, I think
00:16:34
Speaker
I think the gut reaction to things like that is you look at everything in isolation where you go, oh, against so-and-so, they created this amount of XG or they created decent chances. They should have scored X, Y, and Z goals. There was a lot of conversation about the Monterey game where it was like,
00:17:02
Speaker
Rebel Rui Diaz had like basically three one-on-one opportunities with the goalkeeper, didn't score any of them. And then several other chances where you would expect him to walk out of that game with a hat trick. The way that I look at this is it's so much less about looking at the numbers in sort of a cut and dry way and being like, they should have won that game because they created more XG.
00:17:31
Speaker
If you take a step back and you kind of look at the underlying numbers in tandem with the holistic approach the team has had over the summer, I agree with you. I am not optimistic that things get better. I think they can kind of white knuckle it. And we've seen them literally white knuckle their way to an MLS Cup.
00:17:56
Speaker
They've white knuckled their way to two MLS cups and they won one of them. I'm referencing 2020 and 2016 in terms of that. That totally works with this league, but where I get really pessimistic is the team has been garbage for several months.
00:18:24
Speaker
And the coaching staff does not seem interested in trying anything different. Yeah. And, uh, you know, they have talented players that could come in. I know they've been dealing with injuries in key areas, but this, the, you know, Josh attention can play.
00:18:46
Speaker
are, you know, Reed Baker Whiting can play, Dylan Tevas can play, Abe Ehr can play, you know, like you can do different things with different players and try to change something. You can just be like,
00:18:58
Speaker
You know, screw it. We're bad. We're going to sit in a 4-4-2 low block and try to beat you that way. Because that's what this team has done before. The same manager with a lot of the same players has done that before. Everybody talks about that game against Atlanta after the 2018 World Cup final where Seattle killed soccer. And it's like, that team was just as talented as this team. But because of certain circumstances,
00:19:26
Speaker
and what was available to them, they had to take a very, very, very sort of pragmatic approach to get a result out of the game, or try to at least. So it's like when you take into account the sort of like naive patterns of play that I'm seeing from the sounders,
00:19:51
Speaker
Coupled that with sort of like a really, really stubborn approach in player selection. And then these sort of like weird underlying numbers where it's like actually maybe they're pretty good, but they might be sort of like stuffing the ballot box a little bit in certain areas. It just doesn't make me feel good at all about something good happening here.
00:20:16
Speaker
Yeah, I think I largely agree with you. I keep promising the second segment, so now we got to do a good job in it. We'll kind of get more into that, but I do think that is a good place to call it for segment one. We will be right back if you're listening to NOS Audio. Watson's counter wants to thank everyone for their patience, but now the wait is over. Located at 6420 24th Avenue, Northwest in Ballard.
00:20:44
Speaker
They've reopened in a brand new location with the same bomb ass coffee and the same dumb ass vibes. You can still expect their classics like the gochujang fried chicken sandwich and free pebbles, French toast alongside their new soft serve program and their world-class coffee. Make sure to follow them on Instagram for all the latest and greatest.
Upcoming Break and Tactical Reset
00:21:06
Speaker
Welcome back to Nosadietes. So we talked about this earlier, and we've talked about this a lot over the last couple weeks, months. But the Sounders now have three weeks off. They're off until August 20th, and they'll be hosting Atlanta on August 20th. And so that's something that we characterized at times as maybe the worst case scenario from this tournament, because that's going to have an impact on sharpness
00:21:35
Speaker
Um, teams that are play a little bit deeper into the tournament are, are gonna, are gonna stay in mid season form the sounders. This is a long enough layoff that I think you can have some concerns about, about that not happening. The good news is Atlanta is also out of the league's cup. They got shellacked by, uh, Lionel Messi and pals in the first leg and, uh, lost to Cruz Azul on penalties in the second leg. So, um, they're not going to have.
00:22:02
Speaker
This is not going to be a situation where they're up against a team that's running full throttle. Atlanta has the same disadvantages that the Sounders do. The Sounders are at home, which is nice. Atlanta is not very good, which is great. It will be a homecoming for Gonzalo Panetta. I don't believe he's been back to Seattle since then, although I think there is a chance that he will not be coming to Seattle this time around.
00:22:28
Speaker
Anyway, I'm trying to look on the positive side for about this layoff here. I do think there are concerns about that long of a layoff in mid-season. I think those concerns are a lot bigger when you're playing well than the sounders are not, as we've discussed. I think that if there are
00:22:46
Speaker
If there is a desire in the team to try a new tactical approach, they've got three weeks to drill it. They are going to, I think, play some competitive friendlies during the time off. Obviously, they're not going to be playing MLS level competition, but, you know, friendly is better than training session. Uh, I think there are some nagging injuries on the team. Jordan Morris looked better, I think, against Monterrey, but I think could use some time off. Uh, hopefully Christian Roldan can get
00:23:15
Speaker
get himself right, although with concussion protocol, two of them this close together, who knows? I'm really concerned about that, but hopefully everything can get resolved in that period of time. I want to get your take on this, Mark. How do you feel about this layoff? Do you think that it could potentially be a net positive, or do you think that the concerns about sharpness are still a bigger factor?
00:23:43
Speaker
I think any time you do not play for three weeks in the middle of the season, it's not good. So under that sort of like context, I do think, although, you know, it's not good. I would rather the sounders are playing week in, week out to kind of iron out the kinks because that's...
00:24:06
Speaker
You kind of talk to anybody who has worked professionally in the game, either players or coaches, they would rather just be playing games to play themselves out of the funk instead of going to a long break with the funk. Like you never want to lose going into an international break, that kind of thing. However, if something is a catalyst for change, you've got
00:24:31
Speaker
you've got 20 days to figure it out right now. And I do kind of want to like bring something to this conversation that I found really, really interesting after the Monterey game. And it was actually that Ladera was stripped of the captain captain seat. Yeah. And that makes me think there could be something kind of brewing in the background. And, you know, they just sort of like,
00:25:00
Speaker
They got to the league's cup and they were just sort of like, it's the first time, it's the first league's cup. Nobody really knows what this thing is. It's actually way cooler than anybody thought it was going to be. However, we stink. We're going to try to use this break as something to try something. So I do, I do kind of like, I know we ended the first segment with me basically saying, I don't think things get better, but I will say if there is a catalyst,
00:25:30
Speaker
It has to happen now and I am going to lose my mind if it's the same approach against Atlanta as it was in the last month or so.
00:25:41
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, totally agree. I mean, I think that there's no choice now, but to look on the bright side for the Sounders, at least I'm not looking on the bright side, especially, but, but I think if you're Brian Schmetzer, if you're the players, you have to look at this as an opportunity to, to get things sorted out.
Lineup Changes and Key Players' Roles
00:25:57
Speaker
Um, and you know, you mentioned in the first segment, there are all these different things they can do. Uh, and I think that one of the things that has to be on the table is dropping Nico Ledero, or at least giving him a reduced role.
00:26:08
Speaker
I also think that something that has to be on the table is dropping Raul Rodriguez. I do not think he is the same player. I think it's been long enough since he got back from injury that this is not rustiness anymore. I think that he is a different player now. Jordan Morris has looked great as a forward, as an out and out nine. I think it's his best position. And I think when Raul is playing at full potential,
00:26:32
Speaker
You know, yeah, get Jordan onto the wing and get him both on the field at the same time. Raul is not playing to a school potential. He hasn't been all season. He's had multiple chances against RSL and Monterey and even going back to the regular season where I think vintage Raul scores, you know, nine times out of 10 on multiple chances where he's not even getting close. His touch seems off. He doesn't seem to have the same sort of explosiveness and acceleration.
00:27:02
Speaker
Maybe he gets this time off and he has nagging injuries and he can get back to full health and he is that player again. But I think if he's not, and they observe that in training and in the friendlies, making him an impact sub has to be under consideration. I know he's not going to like that. I don't like watching this version of Ro will play. So, you know, what's good for the goose, right? So yeah, I totally agree. I think that.
00:27:27
Speaker
you know, there's an opportunity to change things up here that you don't normally get mid-season. A lot of the time when a team tries a new tactical approach mid-season, it can take two or three games for it to really come into form. And I don't know that the Sounders really have that time. I think they've got to get this turned around very quickly. Although maybe not, you know, because despite everything, the Sounders are still fourth place in the West. They're eight points clear of Minnesota for that last playoff spot.
00:27:57
Speaker
They could be, I think, pretty mediocre the rest of the way. Like, I think that they could keep up their league form over the last month or so and still get in to the playoffs. And I think that has to be the minimum.
00:28:13
Speaker
acceptable bar, right? Like I think if the Sounders can get into the playoffs, even if it's as a, as a low seed, uh, I don't think that you can make a coaching change going into next season, right? I mean, you can, I don't think they will. I don't think they should. Uh, I think if they miss the playoffs, everything has to be on the table. Um, so I don't know. I, I still think the odds are extremely good that the Sounders are going to make the playoffs, but maybe I'm wrong. Uh, am I wrong? I don't think you're wrong. I mean,
00:28:46
Speaker
I think if we're talking about where the playoffs are in terms of expectations,
00:28:59
Speaker
I'm, I think, qualifying for the playoffs at this point, kind of looking at the rest of the Western Conference is pretty much a foregone conclusion, unless things get way worse, which is totally possible. And if things get way worse, then that's entertaining in a different direction. But I think they really got to figure out a way to
00:29:26
Speaker
do something with these last 11 games. And it's a little bit of kind of like a similar situation to the end of 2021 where they were in the hunt for the supporter shield and then they kind of dropped off and then they couldn't really like find themselves. And then they won like four of their last 11 games or four of their last like
00:29:49
Speaker
12 or 13 games or something like that. And then they were just sort of kind of like, list lists and, and then that like, the, oh man, what was that RSL keeper's name? David Achoa, the David Achoa game happened. That was that. So it's like, this group of players, this coach, this coaching staff, and maybe even this general manager,
00:30:17
Speaker
they need to like figure out a way to like make this work or so much is going to change next season. Yeah. And maybe that's already been sort of communicated to players like Nicole Sodero or Albert Rusnak or even Raul Ruidias or Yamar or whatever. And maybe they're just like, yeah, you guys aren't, you know, we're not going to do contract extensions for anybody. And yeah, this is that. And maybe that's the reason why.
00:30:46
Speaker
They're playing poorly. I don't know. I'm not in those conversations, but. Even like I look at Niko Sladeiro, right? He's obviously not the player he used to be. He's obviously not the captain anymore. He's been bad this season. He's been good at points, but it's like.
00:31:05
Speaker
If you're just going to sulk for the last three months of the season because nobody's given you a contract offer, have some shame. You are the best player this club has ever had. You are the captain to the most successful period this club has ever had. Go out on a high note. Where's your dignity? If you're just going to
00:31:28
Speaker
like kick around the idea of going and playing with your buddy Luis Suarez somewhere like just like do something like let us remember you for who you actually are instead of just this guy who isn't good anymore like it's in there somewhere and if if that's him accepting a lesser role and like being a real leader and like spurning on change that way that's great but it's just like
00:31:55
Speaker
Yeah, it's just really frustrating watching him sort of like run around and point fingers and ask for the ball when he's 70 yards away and stuff like that. Yeah, it's sad to watch a player who I think does still have something to offer. I mean, I think that he's clearly not the player he thinks he is anymore and the player that he wants to be and has been for so long. And I've never been
00:32:22
Speaker
one millionth as successful at anything, let alone any athletic pursuits as Nico Ledero has been. So I don't understand that mindset of having to come to terms with that. So I can't get into his brain, but I know that other players who have achieved more, no disrespect to Nico, but who have achieved more in their careers have accepted
00:32:49
Speaker
you know, that father time is undefeated and that you maybe have to accept less of a role, maybe you have to change the way you play, or you just have to kind of be a little more graceful about it than Niko has been. I don't think that, I don't see what's happening in the locker room, I don't see what's happening in the training, obviously. So I don't think that he's been like a problem from an attitude perspective, like I don't necessarily get that.
00:33:16
Speaker
that vibe from it.
Future Prospects and Expectations
00:33:18
Speaker
But I do think like watching him go out and try to be the player he was in 2016.
00:33:27
Speaker
is extremely frustrating and you know like you said like sort of pointing fingers about like I want to I want to play as the 10 um well you know sorry Nico but you you can't do that anymore and um and I do think I mean there is it's painful right to see him stripped of the armband um that that's it sucks I don't like that it's come to that just because he is one of my favorite players of all time and
00:33:51
Speaker
And it's a pretty sure sign that the end is near with assignment the sounders. But I do think that it's the right decision, especially if he's not willing to take a little bit less of a prominent role. I think that that's what Ryan Schmetzer gets paid for. That's what his job is, is to make those difficult decisions. And so I think that that's
00:34:14
Speaker
you know, maybe something to be optimistic about that he's willing to make big changes if he needs to. And I think too that, and this dovetails nicely into the next thing I wanted to talk about, I think that this probably is it for maybe not this entire core group, but for Nico, I think a good chance for Raul, I think for Rusnak.
00:34:42
Speaker
But not like this, you know, to see them make a run on it, to see them get things turned around, maybe to win a playoff game or to get people excited again. I think that that would be really nice to see because I do love this group of players. I mean, I think it's easy to get frustrated with the way things are now. But this team has won a lot of stuff and they've they've won a trophy. No other MLS team has won. So I don't want to have a sour taste in my mouth about this team.
00:35:12
Speaker
Yeah. And I apologize if you hear the trash truck outside. I can't do anything about that. But players that come to this club, the manager, the ownership, the front office, us fans, we talk about this club being special and different. And we say things like, once a sounder, always a sounder.
00:35:36
Speaker
the family stuff and all of that because we believe it. It is true. This club is different than Inter Miami or RSL or the LA Galaxy or Atlanta United. We have a real thing here and we are very passionate about it and we love it and we're very proud of it. This club where it's at right now,
00:36:03
Speaker
needs these players and this coaching staff in this front office to continue that right now, like literally right now for the next three months, it can't just sort of be like, Oh, well, the season sucks. It's all going to change next season. We're heading into an off season where there's going to be a rebrand. There's going to be the 50th anniversary of the club. Um, you know, there's,
00:36:30
Speaker
There needs to be a lot of excitement about that because not many clubs, if any, in America get to talk about things the way that we get to talk about things.
00:36:41
Speaker
And for that to be true, this group of players and this coaching staff needs to give us something going into next season. I'm not asked, like, I think the ship has kind of sailed on trophies. We're out of the running for three of them. And if we're not careful, we're probably out of the running for a fourth. And I'm not just talking about, I'm not even considering the Cascadia Cup, because I don't think it's actually possible for us to win that. So maybe there's...
00:37:11
Speaker
There's the sales on the fifth one but like The this group of players if it's not if it's not together Next season they need to give us something for the rest of this year to remember them fondly by and to be a an integral part about this club and its story like
00:37:37
Speaker
They gave us one of the greatest nights of our lives last May 4th, 2022. No other MLS club has done that, and I will add, we'll ever do it because things are getting different. That is one of the most incredible accomplishments from an American soccer club ever.
00:38:00
Speaker
And these players need to link the future of this club to that story with some sort of performance over the next three months. I'm not asking for an MLS cup. I'm asking for life, to believe in something, to get behind something, to feel something, to watch them play soccer again and actually enjoy it.
00:38:21
Speaker
whether you think it's been good or bad over the last year, it's not been fun at all. Bar like maybe eight or 10 games in the span of like 50, it's been bad. And they gotta give us something. And it can't just be, oh, we won you that trophy almost two years ago at this point, just be happy for it. Cause this club has never settled for things like that. And I do think that there is a distinction between
00:38:51
Speaker
Um, the, your, your attitude, which I completely share, right? I think that it is really frustrating watching this team be as shitty as they are because whether or not they are the level that they have been in the past, clearly they're not players get older. It happens whether or not. And, and this is the next thing I want to talk about. So put a pin in this one, whether or not you think it was the right decision to sell out to go for CCL.
00:39:18
Speaker
Um, and, and, you know, whatever the, the outcome of that. So be it right. Um, like it sucks to watch this team play and they should be playing better and they should at least be trying something different. Like that's been a theme on this episode. Don't just keep putting the same lineup out there. Trying the same things, hoping that maybe it'll work this time. Like that's, that sucks. That's frustrating. Um, but.
00:39:45
Speaker
I think I've seen some people saying that Craig Weibull should be sacked because this team clearly needs moves and that's just not like, yeah, they
Management and Strategic Planning
00:39:56
Speaker
do. They need new players, but the reality of the situation is they're up against the cap. They don't have a lot of flexibility. There's just not a whole lot they can do. Yes, they could buy out Nico Ledero or Raul Ruidiaz and sign another DP, I think for a lot of reasons.
00:40:12
Speaker
Yeah, Oriaga. I think there are a lot of reasons that those aren't necessarily the best decisions. And I don't think it's going to matter that much. Ultimately, I don't think it's going to matter that much. And I don't think it's worth the negative fallout. I think if you buy out Nico Ledero in August, and that's the end of his chapter in Seattle.
00:40:31
Speaker
for maybe a marginal improvement, uh, over the last 10, 11 games. I just, all that stuff, that family stuff that, you know, you can't really have that be your, uh, sort of party brand and do something like that. Um, so I get why they're not doing that, but you got to do something on the pitch. Players have got to have got to accept lesser roles, whatever it is. Right. Um, but.
00:40:58
Speaker
You know, I think that there's a suggestion I've seen that Adrian Howard doesn't want to spend money, that the sounders are becoming the mariners. And I just think it is easy to lose sight of the fact that
00:41:11
Speaker
This team did just win a CCL trophy last year. They've won a lot with this group. This is the thing that happens, especially in American sports, where you have a core, you commit a lot of money and time to the cap space to that core. And unless you get all of the timing exactly right, which a lot of the time entails being pretty ruthless,
00:41:34
Speaker
you're going to hit the end of a window and be caught out. So I'm torn between these two minds of being really frustrated with the team and where things are at and also accepting that they made a conscious decision to go for it. They won the CCL. But I do think it's worth having a conversation about.
00:42:00
Speaker
So A, do you still think it was worth it? I think I know the answer to that, but I'll ask in any way. And B, are there things that they did that sort of get lumped in with that, well, they had to do those things to win the CCL that maybe they didn't need to do, right? Like were there extensions that they handed out that you don't think were necessary? Are there ways that they've painted themselves into a corner that maybe I'm letting them off the hook for?
00:42:30
Speaker
Yeah, I think it was worth it. As long as this is sort of the penance for threatening the gods, so to speak. I will take 18 months of turgidness, if that's what that means. Of course, I'll do that again if I have to.
00:42:59
Speaker
However, I think it's really important to remember that like,
00:43:07
Speaker
Garth Lagerre left. Yeah. And he was sort of the architect of this whole thing. Right. And what he wasn't expecting to leave, though he's definitely believe anything he said to Jeremiah and his sort of like reporting. Yeah, of his like Atlanta came in with this like Godfather offer gave him a position he was never going to get in Seattle.
00:43:31
Speaker
And that's just sort of life. And you're insane if you turn down more money and more responsibility at a different job to stay at your current job. That's just like how it works. So maybe he had a plan for this previous offseason that made this season look a little bit different in terms of like bringing signings in and whatnot.
00:43:55
Speaker
And I think once, once Garth left and once they brought Craig in and gave him the job, I think they rightfully gave him the space to make minimal impact on this season. If it meant the next four were really good. Yeah. And I think that that's what's happening. Like if you kind of look at the contract situation, like
00:44:19
Speaker
I think up to 17 players can be out of contract this offseason. So it's sort of like, that's just kind of the thing you have to do. And then, you know, Craig Weibel does his media availability a week or two ago now. And he says, the money's there to spend it if I need it. And it's like, okay, to me that communicates
00:44:41
Speaker
a clean slate and something Garth never really did a clean slate when he was here. It was always kind of building the plane while he flew it. And if you're going to hire somebody like Craig Weibull and he has a vision and that vision involves sort of a reset button, then you got to let him do that. So I don't really get into the, are we wasting a million dollars in TAM on a bear when we could have that roster spot?
00:45:12
Speaker
Are we wasting our time not buying out Ariaga when he's clearly not coming back next season? Like those minute things at this point don't matter. Yeah. Yeah. It's just sort of like the plan for this season was to have like a healthy Christian Roldan and a healthy Jordan Morris be really good. That hasn't happened.
00:45:44
Speaker
That sucks. Important players get hurt on teams all the time and they become bad. Look at the Golden State Warriors. They were bad for two years because Clay Thompson, Achilles and Knee exploded. In the situation of American sports, you deal with salary cap, you deal with things like allocation money and luxury taxes and stuff, and you just got to cop for that. You just got to deal with it.
00:46:08
Speaker
Yeah, I totally agree.
Fan Expectations and Rebuilding
00:46:11
Speaker
I think that a lot of the mentality of sports fans is that if stuff is bad, you want your pound of flesh. And I've certainly fallen prey to that a time or two, or a thousand over my life. So I get it. But I do think you're right that
00:46:35
Speaker
Craig Weibel is in a difficult position. I think people calling for Craig Weibel's head are maybe not the most knowledgeable about the realities of... Now, it's fine if you think he never should have gotten the job in the first place if he wasn't qualified. I'm not sure what the case is there, but I know there are people that think that, and I'm not going to tell them they're wrong, right? But I do think if you...
00:46:57
Speaker
We're fine with the hire or didn't have an opinion about the hire. And now after six months or whatever, however long he's been in charge, you know, you think it's, this is all his fault. I think that maybe you need a little bit or understanding of the roster realities of the club, but I am always torn between wanting to be grounded and, and wanting to.
00:47:20
Speaker
have a realistic outlook on what are the cap realities of the sounders? What kind of contracts do they have? What's the long-term vision? Giving them the benefit of the doubt because I think they have earned it over the last, especially the last 15 years, but the even last 50 years. Also,
00:47:45
Speaker
recognizing that part of the reason they have been successful all this time is because there's a very high standard set. And so it's a constant, you know, it's a struggle for me mentally of like, I don't want to be irrational and, you know, demand people's heads and, and, you know, kick all the players off the team, right? Like trade everyone. Um, but I always want to, you know, check in with myself of like,
00:48:14
Speaker
Did they have to commit all this money to Ariaga? Did they have to give Rudy Azi extension that they gave him? Did they have to bring Nico back this season, right? Just because he was on the team last year. And ultimately, I think I come down where you do, which is that for me, I'm not telling anybody else how to feel or what to think, but for me,
00:48:40
Speaker
That stuff isn't important because there was a changing of the guard and now it's all about what they do going forward. If they go into a situation where they bring back Nico Ledero next year, where they bring back Albert Rusnak as a DP, and they're making those same kinds of decisions, that's when I'm probably going to get pretty pissed off. But for now, I'm going to be pissed off at the games, pissed off at the team and the coaching staff, week in and week out.
00:49:10
Speaker
while still having a lot of optimism that things are gonna turn around next year because they are gonna have that blank slate. Yeah, I think when you get into the like, should they have committed all the resources they did to win CCL, you have to examine the counterfactual, which is they did commit those resources, they did win CCL. So,
00:49:37
Speaker
If they didn't commit all the resources, they could have not won CCL. And we could just be talking about another MLS team that had a false dawn.
00:49:50
Speaker
Atlanta, LAFC, Toronto, Montreal, which is kind of a funny one to throw in there. They did what they did and what happened actually happened. So doing the what if thing is just not really, you just can't really do that. Because what happened actually happened. So where I stay rational is like, yeah,
00:50:20
Speaker
maybe they could be spending better on Ariaga's roster spot or A-Bear's roster spot, or maybe a guy who never gets injured doesn't get in concussion and he's not out for two months. Like maybe that doesn't happen. But on top of all of that, I go back to like,
00:50:41
Speaker
this group of players and this team with the players that are available right now, even if Christian Roldan doesn't play again this season, which he probably shouldn't given the situation he's in.
Conclusion and Season Reflection
00:50:55
Speaker
I agree, unfortunately. They're good enough to give us something, and it doesn't have to be a trophy. It doesn't have to be. It can be something else. It can be
00:51:09
Speaker
just pride. Like actual fight because we're not seeing any of that. We're getting schlacked left, right, and center. And it's just sort of like, oh, we'll be better next game. And when we do win games, it's not fun. Yeah. Or it's just sort of like the games that are fun end up being bad because they seemingly can't attack and defend at the same time, which is crazy. Yeah.
00:51:38
Speaker
So it's just sort of like, you gotta, all of that like crazy stuff, like cap and DPs and all that, like it doesn't matter right now. Like who should be the GM? Who isn't the GM? It's just like, there's a group of players that has one stuff together.
00:52:00
Speaker
that can do something with the rest of the season. And it's up to the coach and the players to deliver us something. If they don't, then we have that conversation. Then we go to those places. But it's just sort of like, I want to watch Sounders games. I'm going to watch every game for the rest of the season. I want to have a good time doing so. I don't think that that is an unreasonable
00:52:30
Speaker
expectation. Yeah. You never, they gave that expectation to me. Right. Yeah. You never want watching sports to become an obligation, right? And like you and I and Jeremiah and, you know, other folks obviously are in slightly different situation because like, if I wasn't doing this podcast, if Jeremiah wasn't writing about the sounders his full-time job, if you weren't, you know, writing about the sounders as a side gig.
00:52:53
Speaker
we, I mean, I won't speak for you or Jeremiah, I would not be watching this many games. You know, it would not be appointment viewing for me. It certainly wouldn't be the kind of thing that I avoid spoiling for myself and watching later or watching. I mean, I watched the RSO game knowing the score. Right. Like that sucks to do so for other folks, you know, it's not as much of an obligation. But I think people do like when
00:53:23
Speaker
The Sounders are good, they mean a lot to people. And yeah, you're totally right. That's all it would take for me to feel okay about the season was just have some fight down the stretch, put together a couple of good games. Don't let this group go out with a whimper because the point you make about it did happen, I think is the key takeaway for me, right?
00:53:47
Speaker
without the CCL trophy. I don't know how I feel about this group of players. They won two MLS cups. That's a great accomplishment.
00:53:56
Speaker
But I think you could make a case that that's underachieving with this group, right? Or at least- They lost two, so. Yeah, they did lose two. They had some pretty bad stretches. Yeah, I mean, without that CCL trophy, we're not talking about them the way we talk about the Robbie Keane era galaxy.
00:54:18
Speaker
They're more like the Josie Altador era, TFC, which is not bad. That's a good run. The CCL trophy is what puts them into that level, those hallowed halls of some of the best teams in League history. And so I think I'm okay with putting up with bad results. What I'm not okay with is putting up with what we've been putting up with so far this year.
00:54:46
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. And I don't, I don't, I don't think it's irrational to just say flat out it's unacceptable. You don't have to get into an XG debate or who should be starting at Striker or roster constructions to just flat out say like, this is this season has not been fun. Yeah. For most of it. Um, you don't have to defend a group of games that were actually fun, but they didn't win or like, it doesn't matter. Like it's not fun.
00:55:15
Speaker
They gave us the expectation earlier this season. They told us it was going to be fun. It hasn't been. So it's up to them to tell us what the rest of the season's going to be. And I don't think it's irrational to say, like, hey, you know, things haven't gone as we thought it would go. That's fine. I can accept that. Things happen, especially injuries. Yeah.
00:55:42
Speaker
If we're, if we're going to do 11 games, like we did at the end of 2021, wimp into the playoffs, losing the first round at home. I'm not going to do that. Like I just can't, I can't like nobody that, that is such a bad precedent to set again. So it's just sort of like.
00:56:04
Speaker
it's up to you it's up to them to figure it out to do something with what whatever kind of limited stuff they got vibes or whatever they got left in the tank and just do it. Yeah.
00:56:18
Speaker
Mark, I completely agree, and I also think that's a great note to end it on. Thank you for joining me. Always a pleasure. It's always fun to do these with you and always a little bit of fun for me to sit in the host chair. I will say that with the three-week layoff, I'm not sure when we'll be back. I haven't talked to Jeremiah about this, so who knows. Maybe we will do shows every week.
00:56:39
Speaker
But I'm not sure, so he's probably got some stuff planned as well that I don't know about because he's just such a busy little bee. I want to thank all of our sponsors, Full Pull Ones, Watson's Counter. I almost had a Verity credit union, which is very funny.
00:56:54
Speaker
Were they a sponsor a long time ago? A very long time ago. But hey, thanks to them for doing that. But not as much as full Hawaiians and Watson's County are still our sponsors. And of course, thanks to our subscribers. We love you so much and you're so wonderful. That's going to do it. I have in the past said Jeremiah's sign off and I'm not going to do it because it feels weird to me. So I will just say thank you for listening and we will see you next time.
00:58:16
Speaker
We love you. Let's win another one!