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Ep 67: Scott Couldn't Wait...
49 Plays4 years ago
Colin MacAlpine joins us to talk about Robert Mueller making headlines and CGC announcing Cactus Canyon
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Recent Updates
00:00:07
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
00:00:09
Speaker
This is episode 67.
00:00:10
Speaker
I am Josh Roop.
00:00:12
Speaker
With me, my co-captain as always.
00:00:13
Speaker
Scott Larson.
00:00:15
Speaker
And Scott, we just recorded a couple days ago.
00:00:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:00:19
Speaker
And, you know, it seems like they waited for us just to record.
00:00:23
Speaker
It was like, oh, Loser Kids are done.
00:00:25
Speaker
Episode's out.
00:00:25
Speaker
Let's hurry and push out some information about Deep Root.
00:00:28
Speaker
Because apparently, people think that you and Deep Root
00:00:32
Speaker
are associated just like, I don't know, flipping out and really good deals with pinball machines.
00:00:37
Speaker
Yeah, we are super.
00:00:38
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:00:39
Speaker
Nice way to slide that in there.
00:00:41
Speaker
Hey, if you want a good deal on a pinball machine, except for Raza, go ahead and contact Zach and Nicole Mini.
00:00:47
Speaker
Bye, bye, bye.
00:00:47
Speaker
Flipping out a pinball.
00:00:48
Speaker
Bye, bye, bye.
00:00:49
Speaker
Get a topper.
00:00:50
Speaker
Get a topper.
00:00:52
Speaker
And so with this deep root information.
00:00:55
Speaker
Wait, wait, wait.
00:00:56
Speaker
You are.
00:00:57
Speaker
You're also bearing the lead.
Guest Introduction: Colin McAlpine
00:00:58
Speaker
Who do we have on board with us today, Josh?
00:01:00
Speaker
Well, I was getting to that.
00:01:02
Speaker
Okay.
00:01:02
Speaker
Okay.
00:01:03
Speaker
Okay.
00:01:04
Speaker
So what was it?
00:01:04
Speaker
Saturday morning.
00:01:05
Speaker
Like I woke up and six o'clock.
00:01:08
Speaker
I got texted.
00:01:10
Speaker
My wife's like, what is going on?
00:01:12
Speaker
We're camping.
00:01:12
Speaker
I'm like, I don't know.
00:01:14
Speaker
And everyone wants to talk to, well, mainly you.
00:01:20
Speaker
And Colin McAlpine hits us up because, you know, he was one of the deep six.
00:01:24
Speaker
The deep six.
00:01:25
Speaker
Yes.
00:01:26
Speaker
And we're like, you know what would be best?
00:01:27
Speaker
We should just record with you.
00:01:29
Speaker
And so who do we have with this guy?
00:01:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:31
Speaker
We have Colin McAlpine.
00:01:35
Speaker
The deep six.
00:01:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:37
Speaker
Yes.
00:01:38
Speaker
By the way, one of the GCs is gone that Colin put on my machine.
00:01:43
Speaker
So I'm very proud of that.
00:01:45
Speaker
I even kept the glass on.
00:01:47
Speaker
Nice.
00:01:49
Speaker
Took the tilt ball out and just kind of wiggled the machine around.
00:01:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:52
Speaker
It may have been a few death saves, but it's okay.
00:01:55
Speaker
It's my machine, right?
00:01:56
Speaker
But
Backlash and Criticism Review
00:01:57
Speaker
back to deeper.
00:01:57
Speaker
So Scott, have you gotten a lot of people reaching out to you and saying, hey, I'm sorry, Scott, for criticizing you for being over the top on your last episode?
00:02:10
Speaker
No, but I did get a message from a good friend who he thought was like, yeah, the last one was a little over the top.
00:02:16
Speaker
But however, he's like, so when are you recording this?
00:02:21
Speaker
Because a lot of people were just like, man, you're like, I've had a, I don't know, I've had a laser pointer on this guy since last year.
00:02:32
Speaker
And it's just an excuse after excuse.
00:02:35
Speaker
However, we kind of found out why everything's going on.
00:02:40
Speaker
So...
00:02:42
Speaker
Okay, hold on.
00:02:43
Speaker
I've got some Scott, like the one that really shocked me that messaged you.
00:02:48
Speaker
And I know we'll probably get into this.
00:02:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:49
Speaker
Was Joe Cam and cow.
00:02:50
Speaker
Everyone knows Joe.
00:02:51
Speaker
He didn't message me.
00:02:53
Speaker
I shared it on Facebook and he actually responded on there.
00:02:56
Speaker
So it was your personal
Community Reactions to Mueller
00:02:58
Speaker
Facebook page, dude.
00:02:58
Speaker
It wasn't like loser kid pinball.
00:03:00
Speaker
I know.
00:03:02
Speaker
So, but can I read this comment?
00:03:04
Speaker
Cause it's kind of,
00:03:06
Speaker
It's intense.
00:03:07
Speaker
You know, I think it's out there.
00:03:08
Speaker
It's fair game, right?
00:03:09
Speaker
It's in the interweb.
00:03:11
Speaker
It's in the public.
00:03:13
Speaker
Can't wait for this to be an episode of American Greed.
00:03:16
Speaker
And now he can kiss Gary Stern's butt and bow down before him and all the other little pinball jerks that threw their money away and show great disrespect for Gary's accomplishments in keeping pinball alive.
00:03:29
Speaker
He was rude and disrespectful and the minions piled on.
00:03:32
Speaker
Hope you all remove her.
00:03:34
Speaker
hope you remember to probably.
00:03:38
Speaker
Ah, okay.
00:03:39
Speaker
Hope you all remember to send Robert Mueller birthday cards in prison while you're asking for your deposits back.
00:03:45
Speaker
That's a shot, right?
00:03:47
Speaker
Wow.
00:03:48
Speaker
Fire.
00:03:49
Speaker
Okay.
00:03:50
Speaker
Why are we talking about Robert Mueller in prison?
00:03:52
Speaker
We probably need to educate people.
00:03:55
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:03:55
Speaker
We kind of jumped.
00:03:57
Speaker
So there was... Okay, let's rewind.
00:04:00
Speaker
Let's back up the train a little bit.
00:04:02
Speaker
So the last episode, we talked about a little teeny announcement that they had where they were delaying, right?
Legal Troubles and SEC Charges
00:04:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:12
Speaker
That was actually two episodes ago.
00:04:14
Speaker
That was 65.
00:04:14
Speaker
We just did 66.
00:04:15
Speaker
Okay.
00:04:15
Speaker
All right.
00:04:16
Speaker
Okay.
00:04:17
Speaker
Yes.
00:04:17
Speaker
But don't forget Tim.
00:04:18
Speaker
Tim was great.
00:04:18
Speaker
Tim was great.
00:04:19
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:04:20
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:04:21
Speaker
So let me, yeah, thanks Tim.
00:04:23
Speaker
Pinball loft.
00:04:23
Speaker
Go check it out.
00:04:25
Speaker
Okay.
00:04:27
Speaker
I'm just going to read this again.
00:04:28
Speaker
Cause I love it so much.
00:04:29
Speaker
Okay.
00:04:30
Speaker
Okay.
00:04:31
Speaker
Dear Raza customer, we are sorry for the length of time without an update.
00:04:34
Speaker
We have been contacted by a few of you within the last few weeks.
00:04:36
Speaker
The main topics were how many people took the refund offer at three.
00:04:40
Speaker
Is the refund offer still available?
00:04:42
Speaker
No.
00:04:43
Speaker
And what's the status of the Raza builds are?
00:04:45
Speaker
No, I'm, this is not me interjecting.
00:04:48
Speaker
That's his own parentheses.
00:04:50
Speaker
Yep.
00:04:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:52
Speaker
A legal matter affecting Raza arose around a month ago that we did not expect.
00:04:57
Speaker
We were advised by council to not send out any substantive communication while they work to resolve it amicably.
00:05:05
Speaker
We have taken that advice while patiently waiting for it to be resolved.
00:05:09
Speaker
The back and forth has taken much, much longer than we expected.
00:05:12
Speaker
So we are providing this brief update so you understand what the delay is about.
00:05:17
Speaker
I would add that you still don't understand it.
00:05:22
Speaker
We cannot discuss the parties of what the complaint is about.
00:05:25
Speaker
We cannot provide a timeline.
00:05:27
Speaker
What we can say is that we are working hard to resolve slash settle it, and we hope it will be resolved very soon.
00:05:33
Speaker
We will be able to give you a meaningful update at that time.
00:05:36
Speaker
Until then, dot, dot, dot, Robert J. Mueller, principal deep root pinball.
00:05:41
Speaker
I do like that he said principal, as in like the principal of a...
00:05:47
Speaker
of a high school where he's your pal, P-A-L.
00:05:50
Speaker
Should we start calling him Edward Rooney?
00:05:52
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
00:05:53
Speaker
I think Rooney is more competent than this guy.
00:05:56
Speaker
Skinner?
00:06:00
Speaker
After he sends this out, what dropped on Friday evening, Josh?
00:06:07
Speaker
What was this little legal matter that they totally didn't expect to come about?
00:06:13
Speaker
What was it?
00:06:14
Speaker
Let me just read the title here so I don't get this wrong.
00:06:18
Speaker
The SEC charges San Antonio investment advisor with operating a fraudulent scheme and misappropriating investors' assets.
00:06:28
Speaker
The federal government is after security and – oh, sorry, the Securities and Exchange Missions versus Robert J. Mueller.
00:06:39
Speaker
It's not anyone else.
00:06:40
Speaker
It's just him.
00:06:41
Speaker
That's the – OK.
00:06:42
Speaker
So now I will say all of this –
00:06:46
Speaker
The white hot focus of the sun is on Robert Mueller.
00:06:51
Speaker
I am actually allowing the people who are working at Deep Root and all that kind of stuff.
00:06:56
Speaker
This is not a shot at them because we're going to talk about them too.
00:06:59
Speaker
But this is definitely
Fraudulent Spendings and Impact
00:07:01
Speaker
orchestrated by the principal investment guy who is using his funds as his own personal piggy bank.
00:07:13
Speaker
And let me just point this out to according to the SEC order, Mueller and Deep Root persuaded investors, many of whom were retirees to cash out annuity and individual retirement accounts that they held with other investment companies and invest in two pooled investment funds they advise.
00:07:35
Speaker
Mueller and DeepRoot told investors the funds, the DeepRoot 575 Fund LLC and the DeepRoot Growth Fund's Deep Fund LLC would invest in life insurance policies and DeepRoot-related businesses to provide relatively safe returns to investors.
00:07:53
Speaker
He created the fund in 2014.
00:07:57
Speaker
So he has a whopping how many investors?
00:07:59
Speaker
300.300.
00:08:02
Speaker
who invested roughly 56 million.
00:08:05
Speaker
Um, okay.
00:08:07
Speaker
I, I round up.
00:08:09
Speaker
I thought it was 59.
00:08:10
Speaker
Oh, that's true.
00:08:11
Speaker
Okay.
00:08:11
Speaker
Sorry.
00:08:12
Speaker
58 million.
00:08:12
Speaker
Excuse me.
00:08:13
Speaker
I misspoke.
00:08:13
Speaker
Sorry.
00:08:14
Speaker
Sorry, Bobby.
00:08:15
Speaker
Um, 58 million, which just misplaced a couple million dollars.
00:08:19
Speaker
Exactly.
00:08:20
Speaker
Which, by the way, I'm just going to break it to you.
00:08:24
Speaker
If you're in financing and you're only managing 300 people with $58 million, that's actually not that much.
00:08:31
Speaker
I'm just kind of breaking it to you.
00:08:32
Speaker
But the regulator says Mueller paid himself roughly $1.6 million.
00:08:39
Speaker
From 2016 through 2020 using investors' funds.
00:08:45
Speaker
Now, actually, okay, so that's divide that by five.
00:08:48
Speaker
So, you know, he's well-paid, but not extravagantly paid.
00:08:51
Speaker
Quarter million a year.
00:08:53
Speaker
Yeah, okay.
00:08:53
Speaker
No, sorry, 200,000 a year.
00:08:54
Speaker
All right, all right.
00:08:56
Speaker
However, Robert also used more than 1.5 million of the fund's assets to pay hundreds of personal expenses, including his daughter's private school tuition, vacations with his family, his second wedding, his second divorce, his third wedding, Julie for both his second and third wives, including engagement rings and wedding bands for both wives,
00:09:22
Speaker
other lifestyle spending for and by his family and to buy a condominium in Kauai, Hawaii, said the SEC in its statement.
00:09:32
Speaker
Wow.
00:09:34
Speaker
Wait, wait, wait.
00:09:34
Speaker
Wait while we wait while we work to resolve this amicably.
00:09:39
Speaker
Seriously.
00:09:42
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
00:09:44
Speaker
Like I, okay.
00:09:47
Speaker
Again, I'm going to, I'm going to borrow a line from Jeff Foxworthy.
Inside Look at Deep Root
00:09:50
Speaker
It's, this is Bobby.
00:09:53
Speaker
It's like calling Bobby Godzilla and itty bitty lizard.
00:09:57
Speaker
Like this is the sec.
00:09:59
Speaker
The sec does not come knocking on your door because you like bought takeout at McDonald's.
00:10:07
Speaker
They don't care.
00:10:08
Speaker
But if you are stealing funds from all these people, then they're going to care.
00:10:14
Speaker
And I'm kind of wondering how much of this money is left.
00:10:20
Speaker
Legitimately.
00:10:21
Speaker
What's the old saying?
00:10:22
Speaker
You never want to owe money to the government or to the mafia.
00:10:24
Speaker
Something like that.
00:10:25
Speaker
I thought it was a fool and his money is soon parted.
00:10:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:30
Speaker
Okay, so Colin, what we want to know in the NDA, did you have to like not talk about the big money room?
00:10:36
Speaker
Like was there like a Scrooge McDuck room?
00:10:40
Speaker
Scrooge.
00:10:41
Speaker
He got my first dime.
00:10:44
Speaker
So no, there was not a giant room that had a bunch of gold coins in it with a encased first dime.
00:10:53
Speaker
There was an empty room that had zero manufacturing in it that was very, very evident that something was incredibly wrong.
00:11:04
Speaker
with this company as it pertained to manufacturing a pinball machine.
00:11:11
Speaker
And yeah, and so this is just, I mean, all along, ever since that visit, out of respect for my friend Stephen Bowden, I've
00:11:22
Speaker
I kept my mouth shut.
00:11:23
Speaker
I didn't want to do anything to disparage.
00:11:26
Speaker
And I was genuinely hopeful.
00:11:29
Speaker
I really, really, really wanted another company here, very local to me.
00:11:35
Speaker
It's only about an hour and a half down the road from me.
00:11:38
Speaker
And so I thought, hey, this is really cool.
00:11:41
Speaker
have a company right here in Texas.
00:11:43
Speaker
They're going to, you know, in addition to multimorphic, but this is going to be bigger and they're going to be manufacturing stuff.
00:11:48
Speaker
And I'm excited about this.
00:11:50
Speaker
And then I went down there and discovered that they had a lot of Whitewoods and ideas and supposed licenses, a lot of very good people that they had hired.
00:12:07
Speaker
But not much in the way of product and not much in the way of capability of making things.
00:12:15
Speaker
I mean, so I work in a manufacturing company.
00:12:19
Speaker
Until recently, I joined the marketing team.
00:12:21
Speaker
But prior to that, I worked for over a decade in my company managing the company supply chain.
00:12:27
Speaker
I worked for prior companies in managing their supply chain and procurement.
00:12:31
Speaker
So I know a little bit.
00:12:32
Speaker
about manufacturing and supply chain.
00:12:36
Speaker
Not necessarily pinball machines, but just in general.
00:12:39
Speaker
There are some things that are universal from a manufacturing standpoint.
00:12:44
Speaker
In your aspect too, how big is your company that you work for that you manage marketing for?
00:12:49
Speaker
I would assume bigger than what DeepRoot was trying to obtain, right?
00:12:54
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:12:55
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:12:55
Speaker
Now, the company, we're not a huge company.
00:12:57
Speaker
So it's not like we're a private, especially chemical company.
00:13:01
Speaker
But between them and other companies I've worked for, other companies I've worked for were in the couple billion dollar valuation prior to that.
00:13:10
Speaker
And then prior to that was like maybe more like a 10 to $50 billion valuation company.
00:13:17
Speaker
So a lot bigger than the 300 investors.
00:13:22
Speaker
But the point being is just this – even that, even after going there and commiserating with the other deep six and sitting in this hotel lobby after we'd been there going, what is going on?
00:13:39
Speaker
what are they doing?
00:13:40
Speaker
They just tried to show us this brand new product that was sadly falling all over its face.
00:13:47
Speaker
They showed us this room with a bunch of Harbor Freight workbenches with no parts and no wiring and no electrical and nothing going.
00:13:57
Speaker
And I was like, okay, this is a sham.
00:14:01
Speaker
I mean, there are lots of different theories at that point as far as, okay, maybe he's trying to
00:14:07
Speaker
develop a company and then sell it off or parlay the IP in some way, because obviously this is not a manufacturing company.
00:14:16
Speaker
But in my wildest dreams, I could not have imagined
Investment Cautions and Community Impact
00:14:20
Speaker
this.
00:14:20
Speaker
I mean, I was never all that impressed in terms of Mr. Mueller when I met him.
00:14:27
Speaker
He's very impressive in terms of his ability to talk and his ability to sell an idea.
00:14:31
Speaker
He's a salesman, in my opinion, at heart, even though he's a lawyer, apparently, at least for now.
00:14:36
Speaker
I doubt he's going to be retaining his bar status, but that's... Former?
00:14:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:41
Speaker
But I just... This is...
00:14:44
Speaker
I'm, I'm so disappointed for those people that work at Deeproot Pinball.
00:14:51
Speaker
My friend, Steven Bowden, other people that I met when I was down there, you know, there, obviously there's some very famous pinball designers that work there.
00:14:59
Speaker
And so I, I, I first and foremost, I feel bad for them, but let's just add onto that.
00:15:06
Speaker
This is,
00:15:08
Speaker
it's not surprising that this is coming to a Titanic level, you know, ending because the, the nature of what they were doing and how they were doing it was just, it was a debacle and this just, man, this is debacle squared reading the stuff from the sec.
00:15:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:31
Speaker
You know, crap is hit when the hat, the crap is hit the fan when the sec gets involved.
00:15:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:36
Speaker
Well, the funny thing is when asked, so all those things I talked about, including the, I love the, the second marriage, the second divorce, the third marriage.
00:15:46
Speaker
I would love to be the copywriter who was writing that.
00:15:49
Speaker
When asked by the SEC counsel during the investigative testimony about his use of the funds asset to play for these personal and family expenses, Mueller asserted his fifth amendment right against self-incrimination.
00:16:05
Speaker
Okay, more from the article.
00:16:07
Speaker
Indeed, Mueller, the order states, funneled more than 30 million of the fund's assets to the relief defendants in non-arms length transactions whenever he determined the relief defendant businesses had expenses that need to be paid.
00:16:26
Speaker
Okay.
00:16:27
Speaker
And he did so without any analysis as to whether such transfers constituted suitable investments for his client funds.
00:16:36
Speaker
So he basically was using this as like a piggy bank to do whatever he wanted.
00:16:41
Speaker
Yep.
00:16:44
Speaker
Okay.
00:16:45
Speaker
And so just to clarify, this is in the official SEC filing.
00:16:48
Speaker
The defense are listed as Robert J. Mueller, Deep Root Funds,
00:16:55
Speaker
and policy services.
00:16:57
Speaker
And then those are collectively the defendants.
00:17:00
Speaker
And then DeepRoot Tech, DeepRoot Pinball, DeepRoot Studios, DeepRoot Sports and Entertainment, DeepRoot RE 12621 Silicon Drive, and each and then some other people, a family member and somebody else.
00:17:16
Speaker
Those are all the relief defendants.
00:17:19
Speaker
So DeepRoot Pinball is certainly wrapped up in this.
00:17:22
Speaker
This is not just...
00:17:24
Speaker
Of course, this stems from Mr. Mueller.
00:17:27
Speaker
Don't get us wrong.
00:17:28
Speaker
But the – yeah, unfortunately, Deep Root Pinball is certainly tied up in this.
00:17:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:35
Speaker
Okay, so Colin, what are your feelings over this?
00:17:42
Speaker
Well, other than what I've already stated, I'm just – I'm first and foremost disappointed for the people that have poured their sweat equity –
00:17:53
Speaker
into working on pinball machines and ideas and new designs, rules, what have you, that are working for DeepRoot.
00:18:10
Speaker
I don't envy what they're going to be going through over the next week or whatever, and beyond that.
00:18:15
Speaker
So that's first and foremost.
00:18:17
Speaker
The second thing, this feeling on this is,
00:18:19
Speaker
When are we as a pinball community going to wake up and quit giving money sight unseen to people that just go and ferret it away onto their first marriage, second marriage, third marriage, photography,
Condemnation of Exploitation
00:18:39
Speaker
other house.
00:18:39
Speaker
I mean, I'm referencing Skip B now.
00:18:43
Speaker
When are we finally going to wake up?
00:18:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:47
Speaker
Well, this is almost verbatim.
00:18:50
Speaker
We keep saying this stuff, but I just honestly think of Zidware because I came into the pinball hobby as Zidware was crashing and burning, maybe a little bit before.
00:18:58
Speaker
But it's almost like the exact same thing that happened to John Papaduke.
00:19:02
Speaker
I even remember similar claims.
00:19:06
Speaker
I'm glad John's not involved in this.
00:19:10
Speaker
It really history repeats itself.
00:19:13
Speaker
And it blows my mind.
00:19:16
Speaker
that this is what it's come down to again.
00:19:19
Speaker
And don't get me wrong.
00:19:20
Speaker
Like I'm all for new pumball companies.
00:19:23
Speaker
And I think Spooky, you've either got to do one of two ways.
00:19:28
Speaker
Like Spooky did, eating macaroni and cheese and building it from the ground up if you don't have the money to do it and starting small and slowly snowballing, right?
00:19:40
Speaker
Or you've got to have a ton of money
00:19:43
Speaker
And you've got to do it right and either A, invest into an existing pinball company or build your own.
00:19:50
Speaker
And I guess that's what Robert was trying to pull off.
00:19:55
Speaker
No, sorry.
00:19:56
Speaker
In the beginning, the first two years of talk, that's originally what it was.
00:20:00
Speaker
Really?
00:20:00
Speaker
We're not going to take pre-orders.
00:20:01
Speaker
We're not going to do this.
00:20:02
Speaker
You don't remember this one?
00:20:04
Speaker
Oh, no, no, no.
00:20:05
Speaker
I'm waiting for my response.
00:20:06
Speaker
Go ahead.
00:20:07
Speaker
I get you.
00:20:08
Speaker
But like, that's...
00:20:10
Speaker
Granted, like it was too good to be true.
00:20:13
Speaker
And then when the pre-order thing happened with them, it just smelled funny.
00:20:18
Speaker
But honestly, I don't think there's any other way, which really sucks because pinball, in my opinion, is very niche.
00:20:24
Speaker
I think we've all agreed that it's a very small industry slash community.
00:20:28
Speaker
And so you're going to have to find someone that's a diehard fan of pinball to either do like what Charlie Emery and his family did or...
00:20:39
Speaker
uh, I can't remember his name now, the dude that ended up coming in and buying like the lion's share of, of, of JJP.
00:20:47
Speaker
And it's, it's doing that with Jack Winnery now, you know?
00:20:51
Speaker
Okay.
00:20:51
Speaker
Now you're also overlooking American pinball, which I would argue is,
00:20:57
Speaker
is a startup company that does have some money behind it, but they are doing it right in that they're starting small and they're slowly growing too.
00:21:07
Speaker
So I would argue that American Pinball is actually doing something that if Deep Root were ever a legitimate option, that's what they had done.
00:21:20
Speaker
But you do realize that American Pinball originally hired John Papaduke.
00:21:25
Speaker
They did.
00:21:25
Speaker
And once they realized what a snake in the grass that guy was, they jettisoned him from the company and they started over.
00:21:33
Speaker
But American Pinball is tied into another company as well.
00:21:35
Speaker
It's just not American Pinball.
00:21:37
Speaker
It's like a subsidiary.
00:21:38
Speaker
Apparently Deep Root's tied into another company too, just not legitimately.
00:21:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:21:45
Speaker
So like CGC, like look at CGC was already making cabinets.
00:21:49
Speaker
They were already doing the stuff for Stern.
00:21:51
Speaker
CGC broke away.
00:21:53
Speaker
CGC is completely different.
00:21:54
Speaker
CGC is, they are a, they are an entertainment machine building thing.
00:22:01
Speaker
And they also have, they have licensed the ability to do these remakes.
00:22:08
Speaker
So that that's totally different, but okay.
00:22:13
Speaker
For anybody who believes this guy was legitimate from day one, this is your wake-up call.
00:22:20
Speaker
This guy was never legitimate.
00:22:23
Speaker
This is straight out of the con artist's handbook where you come in and you overpromise and you keep delaying any sort of production because you know eventually the wheel is going to stop.
00:22:40
Speaker
And you will get caught eventually.
00:22:42
Speaker
If you are managing this much money, eventually something's going to happen.
00:22:47
Speaker
And so Robert Mueller is a con artist.
00:22:51
Speaker
He's a dirt bag.
00:22:52
Speaker
And I'm angry at him for targeting vulnerable people.
00:22:58
Speaker
I'm angry at him for hiring people who legitimately are good people who have...
00:23:05
Speaker
um who have goodwill associated with them and have been using them as human shields which is why a hundred percent why he hired steve bowden because steve is a great ambassador and so he is using steve as a human shield and to hide behind that and say oh no no we're a good company look we have steve bowden and he
00:23:28
Speaker
He followed in the footsteps of Skip B, of Zidware, of all these things, because this guy is a con artist and he knows what an easy mark is.
00:23:37
Speaker
And so if you have a history in a small niche hobby, which pinball is, of people throwing money at something on hope that they will get something that's magical, that reminds them of that 90s Bally Williams feeling,
00:23:57
Speaker
then they will do it.
00:23:58
Speaker
Even though I would argue that better machines are being produced now, people still look at that and say, Ooh, look at the shiny thing that J-pop did long time ago.
00:24:07
Speaker
And so we're going to do that again.
00:24:10
Speaker
And so I have a shock and anger against Robert Mueller.
00:24:16
Speaker
I have a deep seated compassion for the people he has hired because these are people who it's a small hobby.
00:24:24
Speaker
They want to be involved in pinball.
00:24:26
Speaker
They could be doing other things in other industries, but this is their passion.
00:24:30
Speaker
And so he preyed on that vulnerability by hiring them down there and bringing them down.
00:24:36
Speaker
And he also has preyed on the vulnerability of these retirees who this guy is a salesman and a con artist.
00:24:44
Speaker
And so he's convinced them to give them his life saving, give him their life savings.
00:24:50
Speaker
And at the end, he's going to go to jail.
00:24:54
Speaker
He is a narcissistic egomaniac who is a sociopath who has no conscience whatsoever and doesn't care what kind of carnage he's left in his wreck because he lived the high life for eight years.
00:25:09
Speaker
And Deep Root was never, ever, ever a legitimate company, period, end of story.
00:25:17
Speaker
And the other thing, just to reemphasize also in terms of the controlling, I mean, it was obvious to, I think it's been obvious to many of us as we listened to Mueller's talks and everything else about how controlling he is.
00:25:33
Speaker
And it was evident in the visit that we paid down to San Antonio last September and how controlling and how he wants to have his hands in everything.
00:25:46
Speaker
To me, once again, this is all on Robert Mueller.
00:25:52
Speaker
This is not on the other people that he hired.
00:25:57
Speaker
And even in the SEC filing, it says, Mr. Mueller is
Mueller's Control and Moral Outrage
00:26:01
Speaker
in section 39.
00:26:01
Speaker
Mr. Mueller is responsible for Deep Root's product design, marketing, and strategic planning areas, as well as operation and management of multiple entities.
00:26:11
Speaker
Robert is the architect and implementer of all products, services, or designs, Policy Services, Inc., that's the parent company, or the Deep Root family of companies have marketed or sold.
00:26:23
Speaker
He has also personally managed all aspects of the administrative functions of the enterprises, supervised all investor or client care, handled most of the clerical and processing of investor or client paperwork, designed the IT systems and client portal, and is chiefly responsible for the growth and success.
00:26:40
Speaker
Ha ha ha!
00:26:41
Speaker
Of all the enterprises, Robert has also has backgrounds in accounting, valuation, information technology, graphic design, marketing, programming, and other technical areas.
00:26:52
Speaker
Robert J. Mueller is the only executive of the company.
00:26:58
Speaker
Yeah, that's not a good sign.
00:27:00
Speaker
When you are not diversified and there's one guy doing all that stuff, you need to be really suspicious.
00:27:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:11
Speaker
I don't know.
00:27:11
Speaker
It brings up two things.
00:27:12
Speaker
I know we talked a little bit about this before the podcast, but I just on a moral ground, it really, it really bothers me.
00:27:19
Speaker
Um, for reasons I'm going to leave on said, but I just, I, I, like Scott was saying, I must be a good guy.
00:27:28
Speaker
Cause this, this really bothers me that people would take advantage, not only of, of goodwill and old people and stuff like that.
00:27:37
Speaker
It's just, it's, it's terrible.
00:27:39
Speaker
Like,
00:27:41
Speaker
I just don't get it.
00:27:42
Speaker
I don't get.
00:27:42
Speaker
Well, I get that there's money.
00:27:43
Speaker
I get that you do you want to go play in Hawaii on other people's dimes.
00:27:48
Speaker
But it just it's so messed up.
00:27:52
Speaker
Like, Robert, if you're listening, he's not listening.
00:27:55
Speaker
He doesn't care.
00:27:57
Speaker
Are you kidding me?
00:27:58
Speaker
He gets he he literally gets a high off of hearing his name on these podcasts.
00:28:02
Speaker
I bet he's just gobbling this up right now.
00:28:05
Speaker
Maybe not.
00:28:06
Speaker
Maybe he's finally realized that like, I told you, he probably was literally like, if we talked to him, he probably was like, I told you guys, like, it was a ball gag in the butthole.
00:28:15
Speaker
That's what the logo is.
00:28:17
Speaker
And I told you from the very beginning, that's what I was going to do to you guys.
00:28:21
Speaker
And so, like, I know we're family-friendly podcasts.
00:28:23
Speaker
I apologize.
00:28:24
Speaker
But
00:28:25
Speaker
Like seriously, like head to head warned us years ago.
00:28:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:29
Speaker
That's right.
00:28:29
Speaker
Ryan C. War.
00:28:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:33
Speaker
Like Ryan C. Thank you for warning us all.
00:28:35
Speaker
Yes.
00:28:35
Speaker
Two and a half years ago.
00:28:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:37
Speaker
Prepare to get deep rooted.
00:28:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:40
Speaker
Is it sad?
00:28:41
Speaker
Is it maybe we shouldn't feel bad?
00:28:43
Speaker
Like I just don't like it just on a moral level.
00:28:47
Speaker
It is so messed up.
00:28:48
Speaker
And like, I do believe in like forgiveness and all that jazz, but like,
00:28:55
Speaker
Dude, I hope someone throws you a really special time in prison.
00:29:00
Speaker
That's all I got to say.
00:29:01
Speaker
Wow.
00:29:02
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:03
Speaker
Wow.
00:29:04
Speaker
He's going to a white collar prison.
00:29:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:09
Speaker
Whatever.
00:29:10
Speaker
I don't need to know.
00:29:12
Speaker
I do not need to know.
00:29:14
Speaker
Not at all.
00:29:15
Speaker
But yeah, no, it's just, it's no, this is what bothers me.
00:29:20
Speaker
This is another thing that bothers me.
00:29:21
Speaker
There's so much of the community that's been divided on this personal subject of deeper.
00:29:25
Speaker
And it's because like you've said, they've taken people that are good in the community that they've, that have built this community for years.
00:29:33
Speaker
They've helped this industry grow because we care about it.
00:29:36
Speaker
It's a product that,
00:29:38
Speaker
I mean, maybe I'm getting too mushy on this, but I'm like, I feel like you can't look at one person in the pinball community and be like, that's what defines this community.
00:29:47
Speaker
It's such a hodgepodge of, of,
00:29:51
Speaker
every aspect of the high school spectrum, right?
00:29:55
Speaker
Like you've got the jocks, you've got the, the nerds, the goths, like there's just so many people.
00:30:00
Speaker
And it, it, they were all brought together because of this wonderful thing called pinball.
00:30:04
Speaker
And, and when we're playing pinball at tournaments or with friends or just at the local scene,
00:30:09
Speaker
all that just drops.
00:30:10
Speaker
It doesn't matter if you're Mormon or if you're pagan or black, white, gay, straight.
00:30:16
Speaker
It doesn't matter because we're all there to play pinball and enjoy it.
00:30:19
Speaker
And it just, it bothers me so much that you took people of this community because you knew they were good.
00:30:25
Speaker
You knew they'd help your image and you use them to take people's money.
00:30:29
Speaker
And even like, I don't know, like listening even to recent episodes to people that I really respect and still defending people
00:30:38
Speaker
this company, it bothers me because not, not them in general, but because they're still got the goodwill.
00:30:45
Speaker
They've got the good faith of this company and they are, they are protecting their friends and the people that they love because they know that they are good people.
00:30:53
Speaker
And Robert Mueller has taken advantage of that.
00:30:55
Speaker
And it, it just is bothered me so bad.
00:30:59
Speaker
Like, I don't know what else to go with it.
00:31:01
Speaker
Like, please someone else talk.
00:31:03
Speaker
Well, so let's, let's, let's pivot.
00:31:04
Speaker
So, I mean, I think we, it's, we've,
00:31:07
Speaker
we've beaten this dead horse and Mueller is a dead horse now.
00:31:11
Speaker
So let's talk about like, so where does it go from here?
00:31:14
Speaker
What lessons have we learned?
00:31:16
Speaker
Well, yeah, well, not less lessons, but first and foremost, unfortunately, the people who had money
00:31:23
Speaker
that are, you know, they prepaid to Deep Root.
00:31:26
Speaker
I hate to break it to you, unless you had like some third party that you can try to make a claim against that they'll cover you and then they'll take the hit.
00:31:34
Speaker
Your money's gone.
00:31:35
Speaker
Money's gone.
00:31:36
Speaker
It's toast.
00:31:37
Speaker
It's done.
00:31:38
Speaker
I am, it's interesting.
00:31:39
Speaker
I wonder, just throwing out for you guys,
Pinball Market and Innovation Discussion
00:31:43
Speaker
do you think that there's any pinball company that is going to be interested in purchasing a,
00:31:51
Speaker
the IP associated with the pin bar?
00:31:55
Speaker
No.
00:31:56
Speaker
No chance.
00:31:57
Speaker
I don't know.
00:31:58
Speaker
That is the problem.
00:32:00
Speaker
I can see viability for it in the pinball industry so long as it's not fiscally drowning.
00:32:05
Speaker
I think they would find other ways of doing similar things.
00:32:09
Speaker
I mean, look at look at if they want to do it, but they won't pay the money for it.
00:32:13
Speaker
They'll figure out like an end around to say, OK, well, the whole point was having the information that you're looking down on.
00:32:20
Speaker
Are there ways of having some sort of way to convey the information?
00:32:24
Speaker
But it's forever tainted with this association.
00:32:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:29
Speaker
True.
00:32:29
Speaker
I don't know.
00:32:30
Speaker
Like I said, I think it is an innovation.
00:32:33
Speaker
I don't know where it goes from.
00:32:34
Speaker
It's basically an iPad that's connected to – what is so innovative about that?
00:32:40
Speaker
I think it opens up a realm of things.
00:32:42
Speaker
It's a touchscreen down on a machine.
00:32:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:46
Speaker
But it's cool.
00:32:49
Speaker
Sure, but it's still –
00:32:52
Speaker
You could trap up and upgrade.
00:32:56
Speaker
Say you're playing Game of Thrones and you trap up and you wanted to upgrade one of your houses because there's now an RPG element.
00:33:04
Speaker
And I don't know.
00:33:06
Speaker
I get that pinball is mostly on the play field, but I feel like there's still some stuff about the pinball.
00:33:12
Speaker
I don't know.
00:33:13
Speaker
But I agree.
00:33:14
Speaker
It's forever tainted.
00:33:14
Speaker
Nice.
00:33:16
Speaker
You can look at P3.
00:33:17
Speaker
They've got their screen on the play field, so you don't have to look up.
00:33:20
Speaker
And then you've got Haggis, who's now putting screens in the card apron.
00:33:25
Speaker
So I think we're already heading that way.
00:33:29
Speaker
But I don't think there's anything specifically tied to that you would have to pay them for their licensing.
00:33:36
Speaker
I think it's an interesting gimmick, but I really don't think it's groundbreaking in that it's not like the iPhone.
00:33:44
Speaker
where it was so different than anything else that's been going on.
00:33:48
Speaker
It's really not.
00:33:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:51
Speaker
And also there, there, there's definitely still, I think the, a lot of things that we were, you know, everybody was questioning about the pin bar in terms of its viability in a location.
00:34:02
Speaker
specifically home environments a little bit different but in a location that you know how well would the pin bar hold up and i think those questions still remain unanswered obviously because the money got spent somewhere else looking at because i know the whole one of the biggest selling points of the pin bar is then that way you could connect like
00:34:24
Speaker
You could link it Bluetooth-wise, and you could have your account there and yada, yada, yada.
00:34:29
Speaker
But really thinking about that, so long as the pinball machine has Bluetooth and you could link up to it with your phone, you could have your account on your phone.
00:34:36
Speaker
It's not like you necessarily need the pin bar to do that stuff.
00:34:38
Speaker
You don't need that.
00:34:39
Speaker
And everything else associated with them, those whitewoods, there's no chance they'll ever get made.
00:34:45
Speaker
I mean, it's forever tainted and I don't want to I don't really want to bring it up because it's kind of icky.
00:34:53
Speaker
But there's a reason why when John Trudeau went to jail or at least was arrested, Stern distanced themselves from anything associated with his version of Deadpool.
00:35:08
Speaker
Yeah, it got scrapped.
00:35:10
Speaker
Yeah, they're just like, no, sorry.
00:35:11
Speaker
We're keeping the license because the license isn't tainted, but anything that that person touched is forever going to be associated with his ickiness.
00:35:22
Speaker
Dude, he's been...
00:35:24
Speaker
He's been blacklisted.
00:35:25
Speaker
Like, seriously, when was the last time you've heard his name on a podcast?
00:35:28
Speaker
Like, I'm surprised we're even bringing him up, but like, well, okay.
00:35:30
Speaker
We just don't talk about him.
00:35:32
Speaker
We don't, which is for the better, in my opinion.
00:35:34
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:35:34
Speaker
Because forever, it's kind of a, I still have one of his games.
00:35:39
Speaker
I have black Rose and I still enjoy it because it doesn't create that association with me because I had it way before I knew who John Trudeau was.
00:35:48
Speaker
But it's just forever, the association with it will forever taint any of those things.
00:35:55
Speaker
And I doubt that any of those whitewoods really are that groundbreaking.
00:36:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:03
Speaker
I really doubt that.
00:36:04
Speaker
I think it was just more of a, hey, really, Colin, you and I and Josh, we could all get together and make a whitewood in a week.
00:36:14
Speaker
It may not be a great whitewood, but it would be a whitewood.
00:36:17
Speaker
Well, and I think the thing that we've talked about more and more lately is design is wonderful and everything, but...
00:36:24
Speaker
the game of pinball has evolved so much over these years that almost design is kind of one of the smaller aspects compared to everything else between code and like, don't get me wrong.
00:36:37
Speaker
Like I would say that it's part of the pillar, but you can't have a code that completely resurrects an unfun layout, but okay.
00:36:50
Speaker
Walking dead.
00:36:51
Speaker
It's not an unfun layout.
00:36:52
Speaker
It's a hard layout.
00:36:54
Speaker
But if your average person designs a bad layout that just has brick shots, it doesn't really matter how good the code's going to be because eventually people will just be like, yeah, I'm not going to, I don't like it.
00:37:08
Speaker
And there's a few that I've played recently that I'm not a huge fan of.
00:37:13
Speaker
So the code's okay, but I think the layout's a miss.
00:37:18
Speaker
So I guess my biggest question is, I know that there's obviously gonna be updates from here on out for Deep Root, but is this kind of like, can we just please be, is this like the last episode we can talk about them?
00:37:28
Speaker
Like, I'm so tired of talking about them.
00:37:30
Speaker
It's done.
00:37:30
Speaker
There's no chance that the next episode is going to be Robert pleads guilty and goes to jail or Robert goes to trial and goes to jail.
00:37:40
Speaker
But we all know where the end is going to be.
00:37:43
Speaker
But what about the pin?
00:37:44
Speaker
What about the pin pod guys?
00:37:46
Speaker
Oh, the pin pod.
00:37:47
Speaker
Yes.
00:37:50
Speaker
What about that floating, uh, that, that, that weird home version of the super deluxe, whatever that they were doing.
00:37:57
Speaker
And we're just like floating back box.
00:37:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:59
Speaker
You're like, that looks like a Walmart display.
00:38:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:03
Speaker
Where it's stuck up on the two poles.
00:38:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:06
Speaker
It was certainly different.
00:38:09
Speaker
Difference.
00:38:09
Speaker
Not necessarily good.
00:38:11
Speaker
So no,
00:38:12
Speaker
But I really, Colin, there were...
00:38:16
Speaker
I think there were enough, there were enough red flags that if people, people were holding out hope because they are fans of what John Papadouk has done in the past, they were hoping that it would eventually come to fruition.
00:38:32
Speaker
But sure.
00:38:33
Speaker
At the, everything that came up in the meantime, just had to have been one more log to the fire of saying, there's something else going on here, guys.
00:38:42
Speaker
This is, this does not feel legitimate.
00:38:45
Speaker
And they had to.
00:38:46
Speaker
Well, and he certainly he was throwing a lot of money at it.
00:38:49
Speaker
But it turns out that money.
00:38:51
Speaker
It wasn't his money.
00:38:52
Speaker
It wasn't his money.
00:38:55
Speaker
It was Laverne and Shurls from, you know, the 80 year olds who now are are destitute because they don't have any money left, because I guarantee when they finally tally up how much he spent versus how much is left, there's going to be very little left.
00:39:12
Speaker
Anyway, I really hope people who are working at Deep Root are able to find better landing spots than where you've been.
00:39:20
Speaker
And I hope you don't feel that any of this criticism is aimed at you because I think that you guys were doing your best in a challenging situation.
00:39:31
Speaker
Yep.
00:39:31
Speaker
Any final thoughts on Deep Root?
00:39:35
Speaker
Time to wipe and flush.
00:39:41
Speaker
Crapper get off the pot.
00:39:42
Speaker
I think we already did.
00:39:43
Speaker
So meanwhile, okay, let's talk about something fun now.
00:39:46
Speaker
Okay.
00:39:47
Speaker
Something else fun did happen and it was announced on Friday or at least it was confirmed that we've all heard.
00:39:56
Speaker
But what all was confirmed?
00:39:57
Speaker
Because I've heard, well, I have heard quite, I don't know what's rumor and what's true.
00:40:01
Speaker
Okay.
00:40:02
Speaker
They confirmed that the next game is Cactus Canyon, a remake of Cactus Canyon.
00:40:08
Speaker
From CGC, right?
00:40:09
Speaker
From CGC, yeah.
00:40:11
Speaker
Surprise!
00:40:12
Speaker
Yeah, woo!
00:40:13
Speaker
Are any of us shocked?
00:40:14
Speaker
No.
00:40:17
Speaker
Okay, I... It's taken a long time to get to this point, so I appreciate that they are not the type that are banging a drum and putting out banners over-promising and under-delivering.
00:40:31
Speaker
If anything, CGC has under-announced and over-delivered on all three of their remakes.
00:40:39
Speaker
So are you guys excited about this one?
00:40:46
Speaker
I'm not.
CGC's Cactus Canyon Remake
00:40:48
Speaker
I think Cactus Canyon is a fun, gimmicky pin.
00:40:54
Speaker
I do enjoy much more so the Cactus Canyon Continued, which I don't know.
00:41:02
Speaker
I didn't go into the detail of their announcement if that's something that they're going to be offering.
00:41:06
Speaker
If they've worked with, I think it's with Eric.
00:41:11
Speaker
Was it Eric Pripke who did the Captus Canyon Continued?
00:41:14
Speaker
So I'm not sure if they're working with him because, I mean, in all honesty, guys, I mean, it's... Okay, first off, layout-wise, it's just... It's your basic, you know, fan layout.
00:41:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:25
Speaker
And it is very, very, very similar to, you know, the Medieval Madness or AFM.
00:41:32
Speaker
Monster Bash, yeah.
00:41:34
Speaker
Monster Bash.
00:41:34
Speaker
I mean, so it's... There's nothing revolutionary about it.
00:41:38
Speaker
It has some cute...
00:41:39
Speaker
you know, quotes or whatever that are kind of funny and make me laugh when I play it.
00:41:45
Speaker
Lock is lit and so am I. Yes, yes.
00:41:48
Speaker
But not nearly the extent of like a medieval madness or an AFM or now the modern ones that make me laugh like, like Deadpool.
00:41:57
Speaker
Yeah, Deadpool is hilarious.
00:42:00
Speaker
And so I just, man, it's a struggle for me because, I mean, I wish the best for Chicago and I wish the best for them in success in their remakes.
00:42:13
Speaker
And I have no doubt there are going to be a fair amount of people that buy this thing.
00:42:18
Speaker
And based on the Chicago game that's passed, they're probably going to be pleased with their product that they're going to receive.
00:42:26
Speaker
And so that's great.
00:42:27
Speaker
And I love that for the pinball world.
00:42:29
Speaker
I mean, we've seen that now also with, you know, more recently as well with Haggis doing a remake of Fathom and announcing they're going to do other remakes of Bally, other Bally, you know, hopefully, you know, famous, really good titles.
00:42:40
Speaker
So I'm excited for all those people that who place a high value on
00:42:46
Speaker
on Cactus Canyon and want that product for their home or location or what have you.
00:42:53
Speaker
And I'm very confident based on now multiple pins that CGC is going to execute and they're going to deliver and that they will be fun to play and it'll be more of that title that's out there.
00:43:05
Speaker
Me personally, I'm not a big fan of it, but I'm happy that there is a reputable company that we know can manufacture product
00:43:15
Speaker
is going to make something that people want and sell it.
00:43:18
Speaker
And there are going to be more people in the pinball community that are happy with another pinball machine that they can add to their collections.
00:43:25
Speaker
so i gotta ask you before you wrap it up colin um i've heard this rumor i have you know it's been confirmed it's been denied it's yada yada yada what if because we have heard that lyman sheets has left stern pinball and it's been a while ago they did it what happened if he left to go to cgc to finish cactus canyon would that then make you feel more appealed especially where lyman was part of attack for mars and
00:43:48
Speaker
and Monster Bash and Medieval Madness, would it draw you more into Cactus Cannon?
00:43:53
Speaker
Or is it, it is what it is, and you don't think code could fix it?
00:43:57
Speaker
No, 100%.
00:43:58
Speaker
If Lyman is on board with revitalizing Cactus Canyon, oh yeah, then it's going to be good.
00:44:05
Speaker
I mean, you just talked about it.
00:44:06
Speaker
I mean, The Walking Dead, I mean, actually, I don't mind the layout of The Walking Dead.
00:44:10
Speaker
I think it's kind of a cool layout.
00:44:11
Speaker
But it was the initial rules, because they were in their infancy, were pretty bland.
00:44:18
Speaker
They were rough, yeah.
00:44:18
Speaker
They were rough.
00:44:19
Speaker
and not not fun to play and then now it's arguably in my opinion also personally uh one of the best and so yes if lyman if that's something that actually were to come true and the lyman were working on uh revitalizing cactus canyon code and the rule set uh to make it more enjoyable and you know that oh yeah game changer for sure you're like then all of a sudden i might actually be interested in buying one
00:44:49
Speaker
Correct.
00:44:51
Speaker
I have two friends that want LEs already.
00:44:54
Speaker
And so at least they're within two miles of me.
00:44:59
Speaker
So I'm not planning on buying one right now just because I'm trying not to overlap everything.
00:45:04
Speaker
But I'm excited to play it because I don't have enough time on it on the original.
00:45:12
Speaker
And so I guess I'm holding out hope to see what it's going to be.
00:45:17
Speaker
I'm sure they're going to do something big on the code.
00:45:21
Speaker
I sure hope so.
00:45:22
Speaker
And with just like Colin said, with their history, they have done an amazing job of sprucing up a classic design while keeping that classic design classic.
00:45:40
Speaker
And it's not like they put a whole bunch of gaudy stuff on there.
00:45:46
Speaker
The attack from Mars is it's mind-blowing how good that integration is.
00:45:51
Speaker
Oh, man.
00:45:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:52
Speaker
And what my medieval madness, I I dare say that if I sold every game except for one, I would still hold on to medieval madness because that's the one that that everybody up to Colin level of play like that game.
00:46:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:12
Speaker
I mean, Colin could he could definitely rule the kingdom every time just because it does have that slightly easier layout than Attack from Mars and an elite player can boss it around.
00:46:25
Speaker
But everybody else goes down.
00:46:27
Speaker
And when that castle explodes the first time, there's like, I want to do that again.
00:46:33
Speaker
I agree with you guys.
00:46:34
Speaker
I'm excited to see if there is new code.
00:46:37
Speaker
Well, we know that there definitely is new code.
00:46:38
Speaker
If Alignment Sheets is on it, I want to see it now.
00:46:42
Speaker
It went from a game that I was just like, meh, to okay, this could be good.
00:46:47
Speaker
Let's see what this is now.
00:46:49
Speaker
And we keep hearing rumors of they've revamped things on it, and it's looking more and more good.
00:46:55
Speaker
And that honestly could be people just trying to get you hyped.
00:46:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:00
Speaker
Yeah, however, they've done such a good job about not overplaying their hand.
00:47:07
Speaker
In many ways, they could probably tease it a little more than they are, but I think it'll be a hit.
00:47:16
Speaker
However, the next remake that I would consider buying would probably be Whitewater.
00:47:24
Speaker
I don't know about Theater Magic.
00:47:26
Speaker
I don't know about, and these are all games that have been talked about for years, but Theater Magic or Tales of the Arabian Nights or those other ones, I think the one that would push me over the edge would be Whitewater.
00:47:41
Speaker
Yeah, you can't buy them all, even though I'd like to and my wife thinks I do.
00:47:45
Speaker
But you can't buy them all.
00:47:48
Speaker
So with their announcement this weekend at Southern Fried Gaming Expo, do you think we see – I mean, we're two months away from Pinball Expo.
00:47:55
Speaker
Do you think we actually see Cactus Canyon at Pinball Expo?
00:48:00
Speaker
I think that's their target.
00:48:01
Speaker
That's probably the next big – that's the next big one.
00:48:04
Speaker
And so I'm looking forward to trying it at Expo.
00:48:09
Speaker
Yeah, if I were them, I would definitely have that as the target, to have that ready to go and playable, at least in the small number amount, to be able to take it to that show that's right in their backyard.
00:48:23
Speaker
Yeah, because the next one really is kind of Texas Pinball Festival, and I think they'd want to at least develop more of a buzz.
00:48:32
Speaker
I mean, that's almost, what, eight months away?
00:48:35
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:48:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:39
Speaker
Well, and historically, honestly, companies that aren't Stern usually reveal at Pinball Expo.
00:48:45
Speaker
I mean, look at JJP with Pirates.
00:48:47
Speaker
They also did it with Wonka.
00:48:48
Speaker
CGC did it with Monster Bash.
00:48:50
Speaker
I mean, it's not uncommon for a pinball machine to be ready to play at Expo.
00:48:55
Speaker
I wouldn't be surprised, though, if they pull an online reveal video.
00:49:01
Speaker
I mean, really, Guns N' Roses was that way.
00:49:03
Speaker
Hey, check this out.
00:49:04
Speaker
It's an online reveal.
00:49:06
Speaker
And...
00:49:07
Speaker
They can control it and edit it quite easily that way.
00:49:11
Speaker
That may be the way to go.
00:49:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:15
Speaker
And your reach of an online reveal is pretty good now.
00:49:18
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:49:20
Speaker
Especially with all those Western magazines they'll tie into.
00:49:22
Speaker
What was the last actual good hit Western movie you can think of?
00:49:34
Speaker
Wow.
00:49:34
Speaker
Unforgiven?
00:49:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:37
Speaker
They don't do a lot of Westerns because they're kind of expensive to produce.
00:49:41
Speaker
And yeah, they typically don't be big hits.
00:49:48
Speaker
Maybe Unforgiven?
00:49:50
Speaker
I don't know.
00:49:51
Speaker
The two Westerns that I think are awesome and I just love watching, I think Silverado is a great one.
00:49:57
Speaker
And that's what in the eighties, uh, I think Maverick with Mel Gibson and Jodie Foster is really funny.
00:50:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:04
Speaker
Um,
00:50:06
Speaker
You can't forget the good, the bad, and the ugly.
00:50:08
Speaker
That won so many awards.
00:50:12
Speaker
That's from, what, the 60s?
00:50:15
Speaker
Well, 60s, 70s, somewhere around there.
00:50:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:18
Speaker
But that's the problem, though.
00:50:20
Speaker
Did you know one of the longest-running TV shows of all time was Gunsmoke?
00:50:24
Speaker
It has the most episodes of any TV show.
00:50:26
Speaker
I do know that because my grandpa would watch it.
00:50:29
Speaker
My grandpa still does watch it.
00:50:31
Speaker
My wife's grandpa.
00:50:32
Speaker
It's always on when we go over to his house.
00:50:33
Speaker
I'm like, did this show ever end?
00:50:35
Speaker
They just keep filming it in black and white and just putting other people in as the character.
00:50:40
Speaker
Okay, it was a Bonanza or Gunsmoke or something like that, but they...
00:50:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:47
Speaker
Okay.
00:50:48
Speaker
Okay.
00:50:48
Speaker
So there was true grit.
00:50:49
Speaker
That was okay.
00:50:51
Speaker
I'm looking at the top 100 from Rotten Tomatoes.
00:50:56
Speaker
I didn't watch this, but Django Unchained, wasn't that also kind of a Western...
00:51:04
Speaker
Jamie Foxx yeah I didn't watch that yeah it was okay it wasn't great yeah the Ballard of Buster Scruggs yeah wow that was that was unique yeah well that was 310 to human oh sorry yeah yeah 310 to human it was okay just yeah they just don't make them like the bone tomahawk wow that's just sounds odd uh
00:51:33
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's a theme, though, that people – so without going to a direct movie license, it is a theme that resonates with a lot of people.
00:51:45
Speaker
And it also resonates, in my opinion, with a lot of people probably overseas as far as the stereotype or whatever of Old West America.
00:51:58
Speaker
And so I think that helps their cause.
00:52:01
Speaker
And, you know, the other aspect of it is there are, you know, as we talked about, there are a lot of really funny call outs in Cactus Canyon.
00:52:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:10
Speaker
It ties into some of those scenarios.
00:52:12
Speaker
Even some of the, you know, they're like voice actors, obviously, but like some of those that try to do the John Wayne and whatnot, you know?
00:52:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:19
Speaker
It just, there's some good stuff in there.
00:52:21
Speaker
No, I, I, I'm excited to see it.
00:52:23
Speaker
And whenever it's done, the good news is, is that,
00:52:26
Speaker
They are not going to announce it until it's done.
00:52:29
Speaker
And so there is not a announcement and then three years later you can buy it.
00:52:34
Speaker
That's not how they work.
00:52:35
Speaker
Correct.
00:52:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:36
Speaker
Correct.
00:52:38
Speaker
Yeah, and it'll be another – it's another pin that's in the genre of a – first off, fan layout.
00:52:45
Speaker
But the other aspect of it, the most recent pin that reminds me of it is Elvira House of Horrors.
00:52:51
Speaker
It is a pinball machine that by design has very wide shots.
00:52:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:58
Speaker
And Cactus Canyon is the same way.
00:53:00
Speaker
And so there is an approachability –
00:53:03
Speaker
to Cactus Canyon for a wide variety of skill levels that I think is more palatable and more attractive to a wider skill set that people can step up.
00:53:15
Speaker
And most of the time when they flip that flipper at the ball, it's going to go into those one and nice wide shots.
00:53:21
Speaker
Yeah, it's the shots are as opposed to like two thirds up the right half of the play field.
00:53:27
Speaker
They're like three fourths up, but they are wide.
00:53:31
Speaker
Absolutely wide shots.
00:53:33
Speaker
Like you're not going to have too many bricks on this one.
00:53:36
Speaker
See, I kind of wish... I kind of want this game just because of where I live.
00:53:41
Speaker
It'd be really cool to have a Cactus Canyon in our Western Heritage Museum.
00:53:47
Speaker
I don't know if a lot of people know this, but Vernal was actually where Butch Cassidy, that was some of his stomping grounds.
00:53:54
Speaker
Same with Doc Holliday.
00:53:57
Speaker
Just there's a lot of Western history in this area.
00:54:01
Speaker
And so it'd be cool to have that here.
00:54:02
Speaker
We even have a dedicated Western museum where you can see the old pioneer coaches and stuff like that as well.
00:54:08
Speaker
Well, you should have a Jurassic Park there, too.
00:54:11
Speaker
I know.
00:54:12
Speaker
Wouldn't that be great?
00:54:13
Speaker
I do have a Jurassic Park here.
00:54:15
Speaker
It's not out in public.
00:54:17
Speaker
All right.
00:54:18
Speaker
Well, I'm excited.
00:54:20
Speaker
I think they'll do a great job of it.
00:54:21
Speaker
And just whenever it happens, I'm glad it's finally announced that it's not like a, hey, we think this is going to happen because who knows?
00:54:29
Speaker
It could have been a bait and switch, but unlikely.
00:54:33
Speaker
I'm still remembering what, what was it?
00:54:36
Speaker
Three, two years ago when Gary Stern got up at, I want to say Texas Bimball Festival and they quote unquote announced all their games for like the next five years.
00:54:44
Speaker
And there was like, hello kitty on there and golden girls.
00:54:47
Speaker
And yeah, does anyone remember this?
00:54:49
Speaker
Like I thought it was brilliant.
00:54:51
Speaker
Something like that.
00:54:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:53
Speaker
Anyhow.
00:54:54
Speaker
I, yeah, no, it's good.
00:54:56
Speaker
It's good.
00:54:57
Speaker
That's what that's what pinball companies should just do.
00:54:59
Speaker
And then just like randomly insert ones.
00:55:01
Speaker
It's like look at Spooky.
00:55:02
Speaker
They obviously announced Ultraman technically a year before they even even unveiled it.
00:55:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:09
Speaker
Well, I didn't even know Ultraman was until they announced it.
00:55:12
Speaker
And then I still don't really know what it's about.
00:55:15
Speaker
Yeah, same.
00:55:17
Speaker
Obviously, you guys need Ready Player One.
00:55:19
Speaker
Yeah, I still haven't seen or read that.
00:55:22
Speaker
Okay, wait a minute.
00:55:22
Speaker
I've read the book, but it's been a while ago, and I've watched the movie at least twice because I watched it once, and then I watched it again with one of my sons.
00:55:31
Speaker
Did they have Ultraman in...
00:55:33
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:55:34
Speaker
One of the Japanese characters, his robot that he chose was Ultraman, wasn't it?
00:55:39
Speaker
Yep.
00:55:39
Speaker
And he used the capsule, but he was also tied to the same conventions of he could only have it for, what was it, seven minutes?
00:55:46
Speaker
Correct.
00:55:47
Speaker
Because seven's very tied into their culture there.
00:55:50
Speaker
And so in their big boss final battle on that last planet, he was running up against the timer with the seven minutes.
00:55:57
Speaker
It was great.
00:56:00
Speaker
Anyhow.
00:56:01
Speaker
Yeah, it's a good movie.
00:56:02
Speaker
So, but yeah, so you have Expo in October.
00:56:04
Speaker
Is there anything?
00:56:05
Speaker
Is there anything in pinball happening in September?
00:56:08
Speaker
Yes.
00:56:09
Speaker
Supposedly that's the next Stern reveal is what I've heard.
00:56:13
Speaker
We're getting close.
00:56:15
Speaker
Yeah, but that'll again happen online.
00:56:18
Speaker
They get way more clicks from doing it online than in our room.
00:56:23
Speaker
Yeah, but I guess the point being, though, is October should be pretty – like, Expo should be pretty chock full of reveals.
00:56:30
Speaker
Like, when we talked to Rob Burke on our show, the gentleman over Pinball Expo that's been going on for years, he said we were at least going to have, what was it, three or four reveals at Expo or before Expo.
00:56:42
Speaker
Right.
00:56:43
Speaker
Well, it is what it is.
00:56:45
Speaker
Yeah, so it may not be the reveal of the pin, but it may be one of the first big in-person physical touch points for those pins.
00:56:58
Speaker
For the pin, like for Stern, for instance, and also for CGC, where you have the first opportunity to actually put your hands on it and flip.
00:57:08
Speaker
the pen and certainly with Stern, if they announce something in September, you know, you, everyone knows they are going to have massive amounts of copies, physical copies rolling out the door by October.
00:57:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:18
Speaker
Well, I was still impressed with the, I mean, technically the last Pemberg, they announced Jurassic park.
00:57:23
Speaker
Was it the week of, or the week before?
00:57:25
Speaker
And they had a row of them at Pemberg.
00:57:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:28
Speaker
And then Keith won.
00:57:29
Speaker
It's like, it's like, dude, save some space for someone else, man.
00:57:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:38
Speaker
uh but no i think i think i think this exo is gonna be everyone's been dying for something i guess the biggest question on everyone's mind do you think that covid hinders it do you think we see another shutdown and and the expos take another hit of the rounds so to speak i don't know i've been nervous to buy tickets just because of that um
00:58:01
Speaker
Our hospitals are back up to 80 to 90% capacity where actually every day we're looking at how many people are in the ICU and whether or not we have to delay some things.
00:58:15
Speaker
True.
00:58:16
Speaker
Did you see Lollapalooza, though, two weeks ago?
00:58:19
Speaker
What was a month ago?
00:58:25
Speaker
385,000 all there, packed in like sardines.
00:58:28
Speaker
I don't know.
00:58:30
Speaker
I don't get this.
00:58:33
Speaker
We'll not divulge into this because I know there's a lot of different ideas and aspects of the spectrum.
00:58:40
Speaker
If Expo is still going on, I will go.
00:58:44
Speaker
I say that's, that's the bottom line.
00:58:45
Speaker
I'm planning on going.
00:58:46
Speaker
I haven't bought my ticket yet just because I'm just waiting to get a little more confirmation on that, but I'm, I'm planning on going.
00:58:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:55
Speaker
So I'm, I am, well, I have my airplane tickets.
00:58:57
Speaker
I, we have somewhat have a hotel.
00:59:00
Speaker
I mean, we do have a hotel.
00:59:02
Speaker
I have to snuggle with some people.
00:59:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:04
Speaker
That was the agreement.
00:59:05
Speaker
That is the agreement.
00:59:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:08
Speaker
Actually, I will say we should probably get on booking the Texas Pinball Festival Hotel too.
00:59:14
Speaker
Dude, that sold out how many months ago?
00:59:18
Speaker
I know, but we can still get something around there.
00:59:21
Speaker
Yeah, there's still hotels right around there.
00:59:23
Speaker
Yeah, because we got to be there for our acceptance award when we win the Twippy, right?
00:59:27
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:59:29
Speaker
Booyah.
00:59:30
Speaker
Good luck.
00:59:31
Speaker
No, I'm sleeping on Colin's couch, so that's what I'm doing.
00:59:35
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:59:36
Speaker
It's only three and a half hours away.
00:59:37
Speaker
It's nothing.
00:59:38
Speaker
It's like Josh and me.
00:59:39
Speaker
We're three and a half hours away, so it's all good.
00:59:42
Speaker
It's two and a half to your house.
00:59:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:59:44
Speaker
Maybe three.
00:59:44
Speaker
Yeah, maybe three.
00:59:47
Speaker
Well, I think that's about an hour or so.
00:59:50
Speaker
Hey, at least we ended on a high note, right?
00:59:53
Speaker
Yes.
00:59:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:55
Speaker
Good things happen in pinball.
00:59:56
Speaker
I was told to reverse your buts.
00:59:58
Speaker
You know, always say the negative first and then reverse it.
01:00:01
Speaker
But, you know, this is a terrible situation, but...
01:00:05
Speaker
a good reputable company with a good pinball machines coming out.
01:00:08
Speaker
See, that sounds so much better than like a good pinball companies come out with a good pinball machine, but, and there's a con artist in your midst.
01:00:15
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:15
Speaker
Yes, exactly.
01:00:17
Speaker
So, all right.
01:00:18
Speaker
Well, uh, hopefully we'll probably see in another two weeks.
01:00:21
Speaker
We've been recording a little closer just because of the awesome reveals and, uh, announcements, but still, um, looking forward to talking to everybody.
01:00:31
Speaker
I agree.
01:00:32
Speaker
Thanks again, Colin.
01:00:33
Speaker
Dude, it's awesome having you back on.
01:00:36
Speaker
I didn't know that you'd actually join us.
01:00:37
Speaker
We're like, yeah, come join us.
01:00:38
Speaker
We'll talk deeper.
01:00:39
Speaker
And you're like, okay.
01:00:40
Speaker
Yeah, let's do it.
01:00:42
Speaker
Yeah, it's good to talk with you guys again, and thanks for having me on.
01:00:46
Speaker
It's always fun to talk pinball.
01:00:49
Speaker
Well, it's certainly good, given you actually saw it behind the curtain at Deep Fruit, and it's not really that surprising that it ended the way it did.
01:00:57
Speaker
But it ended with a spectacular meteor into the ocean that caused tsunamis everywhere, so...
01:01:06
Speaker
I guess we owe Joe Lemire one now, though, because, you know, he's always like, when am I going to be on the show?
01:01:11
Speaker
Actually, he never says that.
01:01:12
Speaker
I'm just trying to.
01:01:14
Speaker
You've had Colin on twice now and not even me once.
01:01:17
Speaker
What's going on with this?
01:01:18
Speaker
We'll get you.
01:01:21
Speaker
No, Joe's a good guy.
01:01:22
Speaker
So is Jeff.
01:01:24
Speaker
All the Jeffs.
01:01:24
Speaker
I don't know if I know a bad Jeff in pinball.
01:01:26
Speaker
I know a few.
01:01:30
Speaker
You shall remain unknown.
01:01:32
Speaker
Yep.
01:01:34
Speaker
All right.
01:01:34
Speaker
I'll see you in two weeks.
01:01:35
Speaker
Okay.
01:01:35
Speaker
Thanks guys.
01:01:36
Speaker
Wait, wait, should we hurry and do our whole outro thing?
01:01:38
Speaker
Yeah, you should.
01:01:39
Speaker
If you'd like to get ahold of us, we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com.
01:01:43
Speaker
If you'd like to get ahold of us on the socials, we are loser kid pinball at Facebook and Twitter and Instagram.
01:01:51
Speaker
so whatever your flavor is uh if i feel like streaming i do it every once in a while you can do that at loser kid pinball on twitch and also for those that don't know we have a discord if you'd like to join yeah and i joined today yay it it the the notes it's pinned to the top of our facebook so you just just go there and whatnot and if you'd like to get a hold of colin how could they get a hold of you my good sir
01:02:19
Speaker
Just reach out to me on Facebook.
01:02:21
Speaker
Just direct message me.
01:02:22
Speaker
Perfect.
01:02:23
Speaker
You can see his big trophy on Facebook.
01:02:26
Speaker
It's pretty sweet.
01:02:27
Speaker
I'm not going to lie.
01:02:27
Speaker
It is pretty sweet, yeah.
01:02:29
Speaker
So that does it for us.
01:02:30
Speaker
We will see you in two weeks.
01:02:32
Speaker
All right.
01:02:32
Speaker
Catch you later.
01:02:49
Speaker
Shut up and sit down.