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Episode 325: Saints Mythbusters!
90 Plays7 days ago
Southampton – On our last day of international break before we get back to real football, we take a look at some Saints myths, and if we can bust them!
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Transcript
Introduction to the Daily Southampton
00:00:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hello and welcome back to the Daily Southampton, part of the Global Sports Podcast Network. My name is Greg Elliott and as always today, joined by good friend and wonderful co-host, Zach Ingo Finch.
00:00:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
How bud, you alright?
00:00:27
Zak
Yeah, I'm alright, mate. um
Anticipation for Football's Return
00:00:28
Zak
Obviously, you missed yesterday. today Trying to catch up on just just timings and bits and pieces and all that jazz. um So I'm looking forward to getting back to talking about football, especially where there's the return of real football.
00:00:40
Zak
Although, to be honest, mate, I can't really say that after the Scotland game in. Scotland game. like Like, saying the return of real football, watching some of the most, like, insane, like, last 10 minutes of a game and just general game, you know.
00:00:46
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah Just...
Humorous Take on Kuka Martina
00:00:54
Zak
And also some of the crazy things, like, Kurokau of former Kuka Martina, former Southampton player, ah his nation, although he's retired now, but um his nation have qualified for the World Cup, which is like, I know that we're making jokes about sort of You know, the kind of match-ups we're going to get, but at the same time, it's maybe it's a bit more exciting than we let on.
00:01:16
Zak
I don't know. I don't know. ah i don't know. And I feel like you don't feel that way because you haven't even watched the highlights of that game yet, but it was a good watch.
00:01:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
let
00:01:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah i've seen I've seen three of the Scotland goals because I consume social media. I'm not a complete novice. I understand. But it was, like I said on the episode last night, it's good because it's that proper like start of a vibe of a tournament feel.
Southampton FC Myths and Breaks
00:01:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
And teams like that qualifying and taking their passionate fans with them is what makes the tournaments... what we love to see. So it's going to be good when it comes and fair play to Scotland. But, but mate, I've got something fun prepared today.
00:01:56
Zak
Nice. Sounds good.
00:01:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
and know we're we're edging closer to real football, but today I thought I would take a go at some Southampton FC myth busters, right?
00:02:07
Zak
Oh, interesting.
00:02:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
So we've got, I've got some, some points that I think as a fan base are all, Fairly widely accepted ah as as just fact or that Saints apply to Saints.
00:02:24
Global Sports Podcast Network
And I took a bit of dive into some statistics, everyone's favourite, everyone lost stats-driven thought, and thought I'd analyse whether it's true or not. So I guess let's just get straight to it, mate.
00:02:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
The top one I've got on my list is is pertinent and relevant because it is... a We always lose after international breaks.
00:02:50
Zak
Yeah, like, ah I think it's, i know if it's just nervousness, like, I've always, it feels like that is definitely a thing. And I'll give you my reasoning why it's because we always be like, oh, yeah, I just remember all of the post-match conferences. Like, yeah, it's been a bit disjointed. We've not had the lads together properly. There's couple of them away on international break.
00:03:10
Zak
That's really throwing off the game plan a little bit. And we've not had everyone back yet. So that's when we've had to pick, you know, people that aren't doing as well. So like I'll be interested to hear, Greg, if if there is actually just a myth or this is something that is consistently very what we now refer to as saintcy.
00:03:28
Global Sports Podcast Network
Well, it's interesting. So this year, since coming back off international breaks in the early part of the season, our first game back was a loss in the first international break.
00:03:42
Global Sports Podcast Network
From second international break, we came back with a draw at home to Swansea, followed by a loss to Preston.
00:03:47
Zak
It's about, uh, yes.
00:03:51
Global Sports Podcast Network
And obviously the the thoughts are pending on the the other one. And the other set of stats are brought back from you know international breaks because you know it's really we've really started to feel the effects of it in the last couple of years as there are more and more international breaks.
00:04:05
Zak
Mm-hmm.
00:04:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
It seems as one like every other week. um but Unfortunately, there is a skew to some of that because last season when there were lots of international breaks,
00:04:20
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah We were rubbish all year.
00:04:22
Zak
yeah I was going to say we we had two wins of like the entire campaign.
00:04:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
i
00:04:28
Zak
So being like, yeah, we lose after the rush to break out all the time is very much, well, we lose all the time.
00:04:28
Global Sports Podcast Network
a
00:04:36
Global Sports Podcast Network
So... So our first game back from all four of the international breaks last season were losses. So...
00:04:48
Zak
Were any of them, were they like, did you know if they're heavy losses? Or did you just just you just write down?
00:04:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
They were all 3-1, apart from one which was 3-2.
00:04:54
Zak
e
00:04:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. ah so
00:04:55
Zak
Interesting. So in actuality, we're breaking trends so far this season not by not losing by three goals or not having three goals scored against us after the international break.
00:05:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:05:09
Zak
So it's not that we do worse. We just need to concede more after international breaks.
00:05:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah So, sail look. ah it's hard to It's hard to draw the conclusion right from that information set. that we are worse after international breaks because the data that we have is that at no point have we really been good enough to get worse.
00:05:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
So
00:05:32
Zak
Yeah, but I'm thinking about like the players we had away on break, and obviously one of them must have been when Taylor Harbour-Bellis had his debut and scored, and then would have come back from an international break and then lost probably through one and So, swings and roundabouts, mate, eh?
00:05:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
jury's out.
00:05:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:05:46
Zak
Right.
00:05:47
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. Yeah. Very much so. Uh,
00:05:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
So the jury's out. I mean, if we beat Chulton, it's a myth anyway, right? We but just fly and cruise on.
00:05:56
Zak
asked Look, we'll talk about that more towards the Charlton game, mate, but it's going to be tougher than a lot of people think, I reckon. ain't going to be no step over. So, yeah, it's I feel like it's going to continue if we if we keep losing after the break, mate, because what it sounds like is you've not necessarily busted the myth.
00:06:19
Zak
It sounds like so far the data supports that we lose after an international break, but more so because we're bad.
00:06:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah Yeah, you can't determine that it's the international breaks fault when we lost but all of the time.
00:06:28
Zak
oh that's grim.
00:06:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
um
00:06:35
Zak
Oh, grim. Right. Well, hopefully hopefully they can change it.
00:06:36
Global Sports Podcast Network
but ah
00:06:38
Zak
Let's hope they change it this weekend.
00:06:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
Indeed. Let's stick with one where the data are sort of led down a a similar path of outcomes where going off of mostly this year's and last year's data,
00:06:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
made it more difficult, but it's not impossible,
Midweek Game Struggles Analysis
00:07:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
right? So that is that we never do well in midweek games,
00:07:06
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah which is, you know, certainly a vibe that a midweek game tends to be tougher.
00:07:12
Zak
I'm wondering if that's an us vibe, though, because we are we we have always... I think it's like midweek games are usually when usually have a spare ticket, you usually invite me come with you.
00:07:24
Zak
Midweek games are... That way seems to be. like I still cannot get out of my head, mate, the picture of us being late to Chelsea because of traffic. missing the incredible fireworks, wondering why they were doing fireworks before remembering it was Amazon Prime, spending the entire game wet, miserable, laughing about the fact that we didn't realise at that point that Jadon Sancho was playing for Chelsea, but of course he popped the goal up against us.
00:07:49
Zak
And that's like the general vibe of We Beat With Games is I think that you're like, well, we always do rubbish.
00:07:50
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. Yeah.
00:07:54
Zak
and so that There's so much like more extra strain on getting to those games because everyone's all like there.
00:07:59
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:08:00
Zak
And then you get there and then you watch us lose. But like as you pointed out, lost a lot last season. So it's probably just that it's more frustrating and we feel it more because of the fact we got to rush to get there.
00:08:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:08:11
Global Sports Podcast Network
Well... Yeah, well, look. We have ah actually won our last two, three midweek games.
00:08:24
Zak
Yeah, because that'll Sheffield United, right?
00:08:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:08:27
Zak
And the most recent one.
00:08:28
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yep.
00:08:28
Zak
Because I know that this season we've done all right. Because that's what we've late night recordings where we've been insane.
00:08:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, so it was... So...
00:08:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
i QPR on Bonfire Night.
00:08:36
Zak
Yep.
00:08:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah
00:08:38
Zak
Nice.
00:08:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
Bristol City on Tuesday. we lost that one. 3-1.
00:08:42
Zak
<unk>s good Hang on.
00:08:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah
00:08:44
Zak
Bristol City. We did win that one.
00:08:46
Global Sports Podcast Network
You're right.
00:08:47
Zak
We got battered.
00:08:47
Global Sports Podcast Network
I read this ah ah at the the wrong way around. But we did beat Sheffield United on Tuesday night. So I guess ups and downs.
00:08:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
Ups and downs.
00:08:55
Zak
yeah we Yeah, like, okay, so one of them a comprehensive win, one of them the ref very much helped us, and the other one was us rocking up to Bristol, expecting to do better, and then just getting absolutely trounced on.
00:09:02
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:09:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
And then the rest of the season, it's it's harder to so put into to proper numbers because the other midweek games ah were not in the league.
00:09:08
Zak
So... Yep.
00:09:17
Global Sports Podcast Network
They were cup games, league cup. And we did win against Norwich and we did win against Northampton, both on on Tuesday nights.
00:09:23
Zak
yep
00:09:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
So... You know, maybe there's this is a myth. There's not a lot to it. Again, when you look back at last season, there were a lot less midweek games because there tends to be less in the Premier League.
00:09:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
But also, we lost so much last season. I don't know.
00:09:44
Zak
Mm-hmm.
00:09:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
but
00:09:46
Zak
Look, what we've realized is we need to potentially go back another a year to get any accurate data.
00:09:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:09:53
Zak
And this, everyone, is a lesson in data science and why statistics can be manipulated.
00:09:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. And now... Yeah, indeed. and And when you go back to the the previous year, the championship year, obviously irrelevant of really when we played, whether it was at the weekend or in the week, we went on a 25 game unbeaten streak.
00:10:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
So the numbers were almost skewed the other way. would say,
00:10:19
Zak
Oh,
00:10:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
so i would say it's It's a myth. We don't really play worse midweek.
00:10:23
Zak
it's a myth. Yeah.
00:10:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
We're doing as good as as times that we've not done good. ah You can't count last season ah in any anything that calculates losses because I think it's safe to call it an anomaly, right?
00:10:41
Global Sports Podcast Network
Let's hope that it's an anomaly anyway, right?
00:10:42
Zak
Yeah.
00:10:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
We don't want that to become the the like standard average of Premier League seasons.
00:10:48
Zak
i I genuinely think that it is because of the factors that I've said, which is like people having to rush down and if the performance isn't fantastic, it sticks out in their mind a lot more so that it feels like we always do bad.
00:11:04
Zak
But obviously that's changed more recently. But as as I said, the Chelsea game sticks out a lot to me last year because that seemed to be the real turning point right right up until, well, obviously the Spurs game, but
00:11:11
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. no
00:11:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
No. Honestly, you're you're right. i yeah I hate midweek games. ah
00:11:20
Zak
Yeah, well, I...
00:11:21
Global Sports Podcast Network
Either we're at home and it's a faff getting there after work.
00:11:21
Zak
what
00:11:25
Global Sports Podcast Network
Or it's away and then I have to deal with Sky Sports, which is just as miserable sometimes. ah And then, honestly, generally, my favourite part of all of it is just the post, the late night recordings that are at least good fun.
00:11:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
But...
00:11:42
Zak
Yes. When I'm not saying we have like an after dark aura, but we we do the innovations drop a little bit and I'm usually a bit more wacky, not intentionally. I'm just usually ridiculously overtired.
00:11:54
Zak
And apparently if I don't go to bed on the time that I have set myself as I am now in my thirties, that is probably a wild period of time for me.
00:12:01
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. Well, mate, we learned from our previous episode earlier this week about injuries and mental health contributed to circadian rhythms.
00:12:03
Zak
ah good
00:12:10
Global Sports Podcast Network
So go back and listen to that if you want to understand why there might be more injuries in the game, if you missed it.
00:12:18
Zak
They're phony. I like that. I like that little plug there.
00:12:21
Global Sports Podcast Network
That's it.
00:12:21
Zak
should just listen to the content we've done for all those video essays anyway. Me and Greg work real hard on them. But either way, we appreciate you listening.
00:12:21
Global Sports Podcast Network
Right.
00:12:28
Global Sports Podcast Network
Right, ah let's have a little break before we get to our next couple of myths and hear a word from our partners at Bionic.
00:13:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
Okay, mate, and we are back. So, i don't know, right?
Southampton as a Selling Club
00:13:17
Global Sports Podcast Network
we've we've I think we busted one myth and have inconclusive data either way for for our other myth.
00:13:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
this This next one, ah don't ah don't know if I fancy our chances on on busting it, to be honest. It feels solid enough that maybe it just gets proven true with the numbers.
00:13:42
Global Sports Podcast Network
And that is that Southampton are a selling club.
00:13:48
Zak
Interesting.
00:13:49
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah So, I mean, if I take the numbers from 2025 transfer window summer... transfer window ah this this this summer We sold £110 million pounds worth of player across our sales.
00:14:10
Zak
Interesting.
00:14:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
And we bought nine players for a sum total £48.61 million.
00:14:23
Zak
Wow, that's a big disparity, mate, isn't it?
00:14:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah a
00:14:32
Zak
I can't believe that we had the worst season in our in our Premier League history, the second worst season of all time, and people paid up to £110 million pounds to get a couple of those players.
00:14:45
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:14:45
Zak
That is absolutely nuts. Like,
00:14:51
Zak
what? We made so joke about Sports Republic, but my word, the agents must have had ah field day with some of the money that we've managed to sell some of those players for. And like, don't me wrong, some of them are starting to come good now. Like, I'm seeing Matty Fernandez be...
00:15:05
Zak
a bit more popular in West Ham now, but then you're looking at elsewhere and it's like, I don't know much about on how Olachi's doing. Juric has been fired at Atalanta now, so who knows what's going to go on with Sulemana.
00:15:18
Zak
Dibbling, we know, is struggling Everton. so But it doesn't help, right? Because like even in a season where we have done shockingly bad, we've still somehow probably made a profit from the transfer window because we always seem to be one of the few clubs that do.
00:15:35
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:15:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
Because nine players is a lot to bring in, right? like You wouldn't think of a selling club buying in nine players, but...
00:15:40
Zak
Yeah.
00:15:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
But to only total up to 48 million is is crazy. The top top amount of those is 12 million for Fina Zaz.
00:15:50
Zak
This is where people are getting cross, right?
00:15:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
It's... Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:59
Zak
So why couldn't we have spent the £40 million on a striker? And I know the actual answer, it's because it costs money to go down, right? And they would have used that money to fill in the gaps. But I can understand the arguments of why people are annoyed and why this is a... I don't even think it's a myth really, mate, because you're looking back and all I'm thinking about is selling Virgil van Dijk for £75 million and and buying Drost to replace him realistically and...
00:16:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
or selling Lavia and, or, you know, that window, uh, the numbers aren't really about for what we spent in that window.
00:16:33
Global Sports Podcast Network
They they can't really add them up, but we made 160 million pound worth of sales.
00:16:35
Zak
Yeah, but there was that was the emergency.
00:16:41
Global Sports Podcast Network
And we definitely didn't spend that much.
00:16:41
Zak
There was some emergency buys and we didn't spend that much, right? There was the let's buy half of the Man City Academy.
00:16:45
Global Sports Podcast Network
When you think our club record... Yeah, when you think our club record is 24 million.
00:16:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:16:53
Zak
Yeah, it's unfortunately, we will always be be seen as a selling club unless we we go otherwise.
00:16:53
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:16:59
Zak
And I understand why they don't want to make... But like it's like you said last season, right? Ramsdale was like essentially a statement signing and his high wages are now causing us problems into this season.
00:17:10
Zak
And I understand why they didn't want to like you know go all out, but... It does make you think a lot, right? when When suddenly why there's a lot of criticism around Sports Republic and not just Sports Republic, like they they bought us precisely because of these these reasons, right? They even said that they they bought us because of the Academy.
00:17:30
Zak
The Academy, you know, entire dibbling alone at this point is is is is a hugely profitable entity. um So unfortunately, we will always be seen that way. But also because a lot of the sort of club legends that and and not even for our club, but like legends from other clubs that have come through our system, right? You're looking at Gareth Bale, Lallana, Oxlade-Chamberlain, that kind of stuff, right?
00:17:55
Zak
ah Theo Walcott before he he made his return. Like we we have built that reputation early on. But like now it's it's perpetuated that even when we have our worst season ever, we are still making a profit from transfers.
00:18:11
Zak
And that, yeah, ah then I don't know what else to say.
00:18:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:18:14
Zak
like the word the The stats speak for it, right?
00:18:17
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah Indeed. Yeah,
00:18:19
Zak
Solid fact then, mate, not a myth.
00:18:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah not a miss.
00:18:22
Zak
LAUGHTER
00:18:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
Absolutely confirmed. ah ah Those numbers genuinely shocked me when I pulled them up. I couldn't believe that it was that ah disparate between the selling and the buying. Like, I knew that we'd sold a lot.
00:18:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
I knew that we'd had a busy window and bought in quite a lot. ah just I just couldn't believe that it only added up to 48 million. It's... Yeah.
00:18:47
Global Sports Podcast Network
Wild. Absolutely wild. ah Right. I have got two left where I have managed to do some proper solid research.
00:18:59
Global Sports Podcast Network
And one left where I have... purely vibes and memories to go off because it was incredibly difficult to look up.
00:19:10
Zak
fair.
00:19:11
Global Sports Podcast Network
So let's let's go with that one first and then we'll wrap up with
Breaking Opponents' Streaks
00:19:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
two solid ones. So ah again, this one might be a bit of a tough one to confirm busted, mate. We always break streaks.
00:19:26
Zak
Now, I understand what you mean by this, because unless you're going to suddenly remember every single striker that has not scored in a long time, or every single team that's not won away from home, like...
00:19:28
Global Sports Podcast Network
LAUGHTER
00:19:36
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:19:40
Zak
Yeah, but arguably this is probably the only thing that I could think that I would want to use and a large language model for. It's just like shoving in all of the data of any time that anyone is supposedly struggling and seeing if they manage to score against us.
00:19:46
Global Sports Podcast Network
it
00:19:49
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:19:53
Zak
But it does feel that way.
00:19:54
Global Sports Podcast Network
And let me tell you, I talked to chat GPT this week, not about this specifically, but he thinks that Shay Adams still plays for us. So that is not a ah valuable source of income.
00:20:02
Zak
Yeah, know I remember you.
00:20:04
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:20:05
Zak
Grok also told me that Finizaz plays for Middlesbrough when I sent you some of the the what I thought its summary was i've it of Finizaz's contribution the Ireland game.
00:20:16
Zak
um And yeah, I had to argue with it for a solid five, ten minutes before it confirmed to me that if a he is definitely a Southampton player. So thats that's another lesson to everybody to just keep an eye on the outcomes of all this stuff, right?
00:20:28
Zak
but It doesn't say don't use it, just verify any of the information.
00:20:28
Global Sports Podcast Network
100% yeah.
00:20:31
Zak
But, and and saying that, we're now just going to go entirely based off of vibes and not information.
00:20:35
Global Sports Podcast Network
but a hundred percent Yeah.
00:20:37
Zak
It's the stuff that, you know, even earlier, we were talking about, like, Jadon Sancho, didn't even realise where he played for, came against us, scored.
00:20:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:20:44
Zak
Right? Talking to Nick the other week, Derby, oh yeah, this guy's not scored in forever, comes on, scores. Like, oh, we never score first, scores first.
00:20:49
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:20:51
Zak
Like, it's
00:20:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
Do you know, the one that jumps out at me above all else ah was, and in fact, it's not even recent. it's It was ah ah ah when we lost six niil to Chelsea that time.
00:21:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah Tino Werner's got a hat-trick, right? Like...
00:21:13
Global Sports Podcast Network
Like, that that was, like, the the he was the joke striker of the season. Like, they can't hit a bundle with a banjo and scored three against us. And I think that ah it's very hard to get real analysis and data on, on like, trend analysis of strikers. But...
00:21:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
I think that, especially with how last season went where we were effectively the whipping boys, I don't think that we can bust this myth. I think that we will continue to be the team to play against when you're out form, one way or another.
00:21:49
Zak
Yeah, but I also feel like um that's how a lot of other teams feel as well. Although there is some data, like i've just I've just had a look as well, and it's like Leicester and City ends home losing streak with victory over Southampton.
00:22:02
Zak
and They broke their nine-game home losing streak by beating us. That was also last year.
00:22:06
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:22:06
Zak
It's just like,
00:22:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:22:09
Zak
you we were already going to lose at that point, right?
00:22:13
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:22:13
Zak
So, yeah, but also it seems that we break a lot of records for ourselves that are terrible. So, for example, like, you know, like going on a 20-win, 20-gain, unbeaten, like losing streak in the Premier League and stuff like that. We're not...
00:22:30
Zak
yeah but we don't help ourselves is I think what my point is is that we also develop that atmosphere right where oh well he's going to get a goal against us and then all of a sudden the crowd turns nervous because there is this striker that never scores like again I think think the the game we most recently won against QPR was like the only time where I ever felt like oh they have so much bad luck it's come against our bad luck as well
00:22:35
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:22:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:22:45
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:22:58
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:22:58
Zak
One of them has got a break and it's the first time that we ever break past them. It's kind how it feels. Whereas a lot of other times it's like this striker has not scored in 150 games. Has I got a broken knee and yet somehow scores a hat trick?
00:23:12
Zak
It's like, that is the vibe, right? And I just think it is incredibly difficult unless you are able to quantify the streaks that other players had in a way that's easy to read.
00:23:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
That's it.
00:23:23
Zak
on um I'm going to say it's not a myth unless somebody can prove otherwise.
00:23:28
Global Sports Podcast Network
Indeed.
00:23:29
Zak
Which is an obvious
00:23:32
Zak
one. i
00:23:32
Global Sports Podcast Network
Right.
00:23:35
Global Sports Podcast Network
it Playing fast and loose with the terms, but it's alright.
00:23:39
Zak
yeah
00:23:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
alright. Right. let's ah Let's have a little break and then come back with my last two.
00:23:43
Zak
no
00:23:46
Global Sports Podcast Network
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00:24:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
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00:24:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
Right, mate. Two more to go through, and ah they are some good ones.
Improvement in Set Pieces
00:24:20
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah so first of all, we are bad at set pieces, ah is what I've got written down.
00:24:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
And I just... I don't know if Again, right? If you write off last season... I don't know how true that really is.
00:24:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
So I've got some numbers from this year's um game so far.
00:24:51
Global Sports Podcast Network
And they have us ah ranked ninth in the table for goals from set pieces so far this season. Right? So that's...
00:24:59
Zak
Well, yeah, like we've we've made all those jokes about Ryan Manning, right? So that's got to come from somewhere.
00:25:02
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:25:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, we have ah five goals from set pieces this season. And we have conceded...
00:25:16
Global Sports Podcast Network
three. So that puts us pretty low down the list on goals against, right?
00:25:18
Zak
Right. What's...
00:25:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
That's 15th in the table for set pieces conceded. I think that is an area that we have solidified greatly.
00:25:31
Zak
Yeah, I think that that kind of makes sense, though, because that was, remember, when we did our profile on Will Still and we talked about him, that is in an area that he wanted to improve massively and an area that his teams usually scored goals from.
00:25:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yep.
00:25:43
Zak
And on top of that, we couldn't have done much better than the season before. Because the season before, we were in the Premier League, if I remember rightly, I think the first goal we scored from a corner was against Manchester United.
00:25:56
Zak
that was when they scored a no-goal. So the first goal we had for the set-piece were a goal so far that season.
00:25:59
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:02
Zak
And the season before, I can still remember like some of the four famous ones. Like, so who needs James Ward-Prowse? We've got Stewie Armstrong. i I remember Stewie Armstrong scoring an absolutely cracking set-piece. But I think that that myth has come about from the fact that after we lost James Ward-Prowse, it wasn't necessarily is as much of a threat, but also we completely changed the style of football we played under Russell Martin.
00:26:21
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:26:25
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:26:25
Zak
Then had no style for a while and then also kind of didn't really have much of a style to begin with this season.
00:26:25
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah
00:26:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
And also in our current form, right, like something that you associate with deadly from set pieces would be height, which is not something that we're tremendously blessed with in our team ah currently.
00:26:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
So, you know, it's like direct free kicks or... or you know it bouncing out someone from a corner for a volley or a well-worked set piece, but we're not going to be probably not going to be scoring many headers from these set pieces, you wouldn't think.
00:26:59
Zak
Yeah, like most of the headers that we've scored in the last couple of seasons, and to be fair, this is this is another argument for what we actually do, is that like I remember it's Taylor Harbour-Bellis, right? He's scored a lot from set pieces, but he isn't exactly that tall.
00:27:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hmm.
00:27:13
Zak
All the players we've had that are you've pointed out, Damien Downs doesn't exactly do a lot. He's not exactly the profile of player that we think he is just because he's tall. All of the match, apart from that incredible like Liverpool compilation, right?
00:27:28
Zak
It wasn't exactly, you know, you could hear on his it wasn't great with his head either. So, of course, like, we've not.
00:27:33
Global Sports Podcast Network
no
00:27:35
Zak
But also, I don't think we're doing that much worse than anyone else. We just don't play hoofball apart from the couple of times they've attempted to play hoofball. And then it proves why we don't try and play hoofball.
00:27:46
Zak
because that doesn't work for us. So I'm not really that bothered. And I do think that we we score more set pieces than we think we do. i I understand that last season, we felt that way for sure.
00:27:58
Zak
But also, that's because we didn't score a lot of goals last season, more than anything else.
00:28:01
Global Sports Podcast Network
yep and you know though it's with with with that you know the statistics are that we were the worst in the league for conceding set pieces but we were also worst in the league for conceding in general we were only the second worst in the league for scoring from set pieces Wolves managed to be worse than us you know it's it's it's not a lot but it's something
00:28:26
Zak
And also, it's one of those things where I think that you know there's been a lot talk about it recently, right?
00:28:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:28:31
Zak
Where the art of set pieces and having set pieces coaches and that sort thing. like I remember there a lot of discourse around us not having one last season and how like oh they should have gone out and got a set piece coach this or the other.
00:28:44
Zak
But also, it's become very popular in the last season. It's not something previously everybody thought wasn't that good. It kind of felt like it was like, you just kind have to play for a set piece and that's their way of winning.
00:28:56
Zak
Whereas now, like, it's become, don't know, like, on brand, it's popular currently.
00:28:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:29:02
Zak
So it's not a thing I'm um'm that concerned about. What I would like in general, Greg, is to just score more goals. I don't really care where they come from. So, yeah, I don't necessarily believe it.
00:29:10
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. oh well, mate, that is a wonderful summary to bust that myth. Uh, I think truly, and lead us beautifully into my final myth I would like to bust.
Defenders vs. Strikers Scoring
00:29:25
Global Sports Podcast Network
Do more of our goals come from defenders than from our strikers? Uh, and I love that you alluded to the fact that it doesn't matter, right? goals Goals is goals.
00:29:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
But i've got I've got numbers on this one, mate. Our top five goal scorers this season are forward-thinking players.
00:29:51
Global Sports Podcast Network
I guess there's a grey area here. Adam Armstrong with five. Ryan Manning is second with two. ah joint second with Leo Sienza. Would you call Ryan Manning an attacking player or a defensive player?
00:30:04
Global Sports Podcast Network
This is one for the debate.
00:30:05
Zak
oh Do you think he's a better left back or do you do you see him more as a winger?
00:30:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
Definitely
00:30:09
Zak
Because I think of all of the times that I think of where Ryan Manning is on the field.
00:30:10
Global Sports Podcast Network
more of a winger.
00:30:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:30:14
Zak
90% of the time it's in like, you know, the opponents of half, right?
00:30:18
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:30:18
Zak
And occasionally he makes it back me. He's always one that, you know, this is this is the problem we've always talked about at the wingback system. And it's also the problem we calling our system a back five that is too defensive. And to be honest, it kind of plays wiggers. It's just that we wish we had more actual attacking players rather than pseudo attacking players.
00:30:37
Zak
But, I don't know. I wouldn't necessarily call him a ah super defensive player, right?
00:30:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
No.
00:30:43
Zak
don't know how you feel about that.
00:30:46
Global Sports Podcast Network
I would class him as an attacking player, very much so. Looking back at last year, even last year where we came under fire, I guess arguably there's another grey area here. But again, our top five goalscorers with some upsettingly low numbers, you know we know.
00:31:02
Global Sports Podcast Network
Paul Honnachy with four. camera ah Joe Arebo with three. i mean, he was centre-back for some of the season, I guess, but that is not what I would describe his position as.
00:31:09
Zak
He is not the centre-back. Let's just clear that up immediately.
00:31:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
Cameron Archer with two. Tyler Diblin with two. Matty Fernandez with two. Adam Armstrong also with two. ah
00:31:24
Zak
What are those being a penalty? remember that.
00:31:25
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, upsettingly low numbers, but mostly attackers. You know, the first defender on this list is Jan Bednarek with two also. So, and even going further back than that, because, you know, we would that
00:31:40
Zak
Yes.
00:31:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
we showed that last season we're going to call an anomaly. That's what we're going to stick with. ah The championship season before, Adam Armstrong... Way clear out in front. 24 goals.
00:32:10
Global Sports Podcast Network
10th?
00:32:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
11th? eleven My maths wasn't good enough to count it properly. Taylor Harwood-Bellis with 2. But he comes under a wealth of forward players. Ryan Fraser, Sammy Adozi, Stewie Armstrong, Joe Rothwell, Joe Erivo, Sekumara, Charlie Alcaraz, David Brooks, all up there with two or more goals.
00:32:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
So I think that's pretty decisive. But no, our forwards do score goals. ah Even when those numbers are low, they still score more goals than the back.
00:32:46
Global Sports Podcast Network
what's a What was interesting, Zach, is that I went even further back with this in my sort of overall research. a And I don't want to to sort of harp on the point about top 10s and defenders, but what i didn't realise is how key James Ward-Prowse was to
00:33:07
Zak
How much we used to score goals?
00:33:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah He was our top goal scorer for both the seasons. you know that? and twenty one twenty two seasons did you know that
00:33:16
Zak
I would like to be surprised by that, but I'm really not, mate. This is the point this is like the point everyone constantly makes about Banny Ings, right, and why we never managed to properly replace him. even then, I don't think that was as much problem.
00:33:29
Zak
We've not really seen prolific... goal-scoring outfit from our team in a long time. And as you said, like, okay, well, it's not the defenders, but when the numbers, when the difference between goals scored by defenders and goals scored by a striker last season is true, it is going to feel like there is not that much of a difference.
00:33:46
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:49
Zak
And the problem is, is that a lot of the goals we've remembered so far this season have been in games, you know, that we but we've either drawn or or won. And those, you know, we think of the Ryan Manning goals being early on.
00:33:59
Zak
The fact that our first game of the season, Jack Stephens and Ryan Manning, right?
00:34:01
Global Sports Podcast Network
Jack Steven, Brexit. Yeah.
00:34:04
Zak
And that, you know, so that's that's one of the reasons why. It's like how many times do we genuinely remember goals in games that we've lost in? So if the goals that happen in the games that we we, you know, massively remember, like, for example, like the first win of the season, yeah, it's going to be a myth that ends up being more,
00:34:24
Zak
perpetuated. But also, five goals for Adam Armstrong this season isn't exactly like massively high up there either, right?
00:34:32
Global Sports Podcast Network
one no When you compare it to his 24 in our last championship season, it's is you know a bit of a dry spell, one but we'll see.
00:34:32
Zak
When
00:34:43
Zak
But it's not just us that suffers from this issue.
00:34:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hopefully.
00:34:45
Zak
and and i like looking at Look at how how much Wolves are suffering losing Kunia to Manchester United. They knew they needed to get goals from elsewhere. Strand Larsson is doing all right for them.
00:34:57
Zak
But at the same time, you're looking at how they're doing this season. And this is how losing a prolific player can damage you. And I think that for a long time, we rode our luck, as you pointed out, on James Watt's crowd scoring, you know, essentially set pieces, which is funny because that then completely disregards the point before of, well, we don't often score from set pieces.
00:35:03
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:35:11
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:35:16
Zak
For actuality, for a long time, that was pretty much the only way we did score.
00:35:17
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. yeah Indeed.
00:35:21
Zak
and So some of these myths themselves contradict one another.
00:35:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
Right.
00:35:24
Global Sports Podcast Network
Oh, no, that's the joy of it. Well, that, I feel, is a myth. Well and truly busted by looking at the numbers. Strikers do score more goals than defenders.
00:35:34
Zak
It's just that it's not by enough that we...
00:35:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
Indeed.
00:35:37
Zak
It's not by enough, mate. That's the problem, right? That's what people are actually upset by. it is that it shouldt that You shouldn't have a two-goal margin ahead of a defender.
00:35:47
Zak
You should have like a ten-goal margin ahead of a defender. eight
00:35:50
Global Sports Podcast Network
Indeed.
00:35:50
Zak
Like that season with Che Adams and Adam Armstrong scoring a lot. go Taylor Harbapella scoring two, but Che Adams scoring like 17 or whatever.
00:35:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:35:59
Zak
That's a big difference.
00:35:59
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:36:00
Zak
Adam Armstrong scoring five and Ryan Manning scoring two. That is not enough of a difference for people to feel like they have prolific goal scorers. I can understand why that myth exists and understand why it will consistently be perpetuated until the strikers start scoring more goals.
00:36:18
Global Sports Podcast Network
Absolutely.
00:36:19
Zak
Sorry, right over.
00:36:20
Global Sports Podcast Network
but like But like you say, mate, it doesn't matter where the goals come from.
00:36:20
Zak
What
00:36:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
We just want to see more of them all the time.
00:36:24
Zak
do I care about?
00:36:25
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah
00:36:25
Zak
Winning.
00:36:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
But look
Episode Wrap-up and Listener Engagement
00:36:28
Global Sports Podcast Network
that's it. That is the end of my list of Saints myths. ah Some busted, some very much confirmed, some... Oh, the date is still out. we'll ah We'll have to come back to it, guess.
00:36:41
Global Sports Podcast Network
But that was it. A nice bit of fun to dig into some some old stats and draw some conclusions. I hope you enjoyed it.
00:36:50
Zak
I enjoyed that. What what I think that is the most interesting, mate, is how last season will have broken any ability to do proper statistical analysis on our club for the foreseeable future.
00:36:59
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, it makes it really difficult because it's such a statistical anomaly. It makes it very hard indeed.
00:37:10
Zak
We were so bad we have become a statistical anomaly.
00:37:10
Global Sports Podcast Network
But there we go. That's it.
00:37:13
Zak
That is, oh, man. Just to add a list of platitudes that we we have
00:37:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah said But anyway, that's all we've got time for, Zach. Thank you very much for joining me.
00:37:24
Zak
Thank you, mate.
00:37:24
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah Thank you, everyone, for listening. ah hope you've enjoyed this bit of fun. ah Let us know in the comments or on the social medias if there are any saints myths you'd like us to approach if you want to do us to do this again.
00:37:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah We're on all the socials. We're on X, TikTok, Blue Sky, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, everywhere. Hit us up. Let us know. we love hearing from you. i would love to hear some more wacky myths to go and do some deep dives into and take a look at.
00:37:54
Global Sports Podcast Network
Uh, However, tomorrow we are back to some real football build-up, Zach. We've got a match preview of an early kick-off against Charlton at the weekend. So we will be talking about that.
00:38:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
And, you know, there's going be lots to talk about. Nathan Jones' Charlton is, I'm sure, going to be a game of some interest to Saints fans, that's for sure. ah Until then, though, hope you all have a wonderful day, and we'll see you then.
00:38:30
Global Sports Podcast Network
Thank you.