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The Kaczyński Twins and the Smolensk Air Disaster
32 Plays4 years ago
Josh and M discuss the conspiracy theories surrounding the the Kaczyński Twins of Poland, the Smolensk Air Disaster, and Polish politics.
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Josh is @monkeyfluids and M is @conspiracism on Twitter
You can also contact us at: podcastconspiracy@gmail.com
You can learn more about M’s academic work at: http://mrxdentith.com
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Transcript
Brainstorming Comedy Sketches
00:00:00
Speaker
Okay, brainstorming session time, ideas for sketches about COVID-19, go. Something, something, something Spanish flu. It's timely, with it being almost exactly a century ago. Spanish flu sounds a little bit racist.
00:00:16
Speaker
Yeah, I guess it's a bit like Trump's China virus. Oh, how about a musical number based on David Bowie's China Girl? Josh, are you suggesting we sing? So Josh, are you suggesting you sing? Well, the self isolation is getting to me. I was singing The Hills Are Alive with Sound of Music the other day in public.
00:00:36
Speaker
I know, also without pants. It made the news. Yes, anyway, enough of the local news. What other ideas do we have? Something, something, the black plague. Ooh, juicy and pestulent. And pestulent.
00:00:52
Speaker
Okay, so some marketplace scene, perhaps someone collecting the dead? Oh, and he knocks on someone's door and says something like, bring out your dead, bring out your dead. Yeah, but, but, but, but, but it turns out the person he's collecting isn't dead, just mostly dead.
00:01:10
Speaker
Yeah, so there's this debate about whether we can take the corpse. The almost corpse. Yeah, away, yep, yeah, and then. And then the corpse claims to be getting better. Yeah, and he's like, you're not fooling anyone, one of them says. And then the corpse collector hits the almost corpse on the head and takes it away anyway. Yes, yeah, I think we've got it. A fine sketch and not a tall derivative. Oh look, a lovely pair of coconuts.
Conspiracy Podcast Introduction
00:01:43
Speaker
The podcaster's guide to the conspiracy, brought to you today by Josh Addison and Dr. M. Denton.
00:01:52
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the podcaster's guide to the conspiracy. I am Josh Edison in Auckland, New Zealand. Still in Auckland, New Zealand, I believe, as Dr. Emdentuth haven't fled down to Hamilton, although I see people crying. Well, I mean, we kind of can't. I mean, there are people, I mean, no one's going to flee to Hamilton for Easter, but there are people fleeing Auckland for Easter because at least
00:02:16
Speaker
People seem to think that because Jesus Christ is dead, it is going to rise. They get to go to the Coromandel. I have no idea. Something like that. Yes, no, the police have apparently been out stopping cars, heading south, suspiciously laden with holidaying gear and telling them no Easter. Sorry, it still does mean we're in lockdown. You don't get the weekend off being on lockdown. But Josh, what did Jesus die for?
00:02:45
Speaker
You actually don't know, do you? You have no idea because you aren't religious. Something about sins? Was he pro or against them? Yeah, it's a really good creature. I mean, he died for our sins. So I'm assuming... So he was for sinning, right. Yeah, he was for sinning. Jesus died to allow us to continue to sin. Yeah, I'm finished with all that tracks. Sounds like a fun guy. You should be the next pope. Well, I don't see why I couldn't be. Yeah, so we are still in lockdown, two weeks in now. The good news is it appears to be working.
COVID-19 Impact on New Zealand
00:03:14
Speaker
the number of cases of COVID-19 in New Zealand has not risen exponentially. It's sort of been a sort of a linear growth, which appears to be slowing down. So we're not out of the woods yet, but it looks like. So we've had three consecutive days of diminishing numbers of people being diagnosed with COVID-19 and increasing numbers of people recovering from COVID-19, which means it is possible we'll get to R0,
00:03:43
Speaker
within a few weeks where our zero is we have more people recovering from the virus than actually guessing the virus which means that our eliminative strategy actually might work and we might eradicate COVID-19 in our nation-state borders at which point we close our borders for all time we relocate the country using the mechanism from Lost the TV series and you will never hear from us again
00:04:08
Speaker
Yeah, don't think you were supposed to tell them that. But yes, yep, that's out now. So yeah, which unfortunately means if nobody ever hears from us again, what are we going to do without our giant podcasting empire that appears to be growing by the day?
Podcast Growth During Pandemic
00:04:21
Speaker
We've had four new patrons in the space of a fortnight, which may not seem like much. But for this podcast, that is a growth spurt, which indicates a pandemic of people subscribing to the podcast's guide to the conspiracy.
00:04:36
Speaker
which is the kind of pandemic we like. Yes. Podcasts Guide to the Conspiracy. All four pandemics and also expansions to the game Pandemic. So yes, more patrons. Our empire grows. You've been you've been off on some side hustle, I understand. So I was asked by a friend of the show and this from the show Objective Realicy to appear on Reserved Recommendations, which is a little radio segment for Manuatu's radio station.
00:05:06
Speaker
on things that people want to recommend to other people that you might have a slight reservation about and sometimes you might be a little bit reserved about wanting to talk about conspiracy theories but sometimes you want to listen to an expert who knows what conspiracies are and whether or not we should believe them and that was what I talked about for an hour and of course was cheating on you as I did it.
00:05:29
Speaker
Well, how very like you. So people can see that online if they're of a mind too. It's available online. It's on Spotify. There'll be a link in the show notes for this episode for people who want to listen to me talk for an hour on conspiracy theories, which I kind of assume they do, given they're listening to a podcast where I talk about conspiracy theories for half an hour, you get twice the content for free. Double the dentist.
00:05:57
Speaker
I believe is the phrase we like to use. It's true. I mean, it's a phrase that trips off people's lips all the time. Oh, good old doubling the dentist. You know what also doubles the dentist? Twins? No. Are we going for a twin segue?
00:06:13
Speaker
No, no, no. Although that actually would be genius. And frankly, no, I actually feel like we have to do that again in just a few minutes. We could double the damn truth by becoming a patron of this episode, or indeed this podcast series, and getting access to our bonus episodes. But not just that, we are going to try something that's never been tried before in the history of podcasting. It definitely has been tried before in the history of podcasting. We are going to live stream
00:06:41
Speaker
next week's episode on Discord for our patrons. Right and we're confident we know how to do that and by we I mean you. Because I have some software that in theory should work. I'm not guaranteeing it's going to work but we're going to attempt to live stream this podcast next week on Discord. Excellent okay well that'll be an adventure. I bet what will happen is we live stream me
00:07:06
Speaker
And there's just a whole bunch of silence whenever you're talking. Quite possibly, yeah. But we'll see. Baby steps, teething issues, potty training, it's all there. We'll get there.
Introduction to Kaczynski Twins
00:07:17
Speaker
Precisely. Now, do you want to give me the double feeder line again and I can work it into a proper segue? Why Josh, we could also double our dentist in other ways.
00:07:29
Speaker
by talking about twins, say, twin Polish country leaders? Yes, that way we could double our... Now we need to know, how do you say, what's a Polish version of dentith? Oh gosh, I don't know. Dentis... No, no, that would be Romanian. Yeah, that sounds very Romanian.
00:07:50
Speaker
No, I'm afraid I'm not, I'm not down with my Polish. The point is we're going to talk about twin Polish, uh, political leaders. Yeah, that's a good one. Nice and generic. And now incredibly irregular series on, um, dead politicians. We've done Uluf Palma. We've mentioned, what was his name? Howard Holt, the Australian guy who went missing. Uh, now it's Poland's turn. Howard Holt?
00:08:16
Speaker
I don't think it is Howard Holt. No, I don't think it was. It was someone, someone Holt. Doesn't matter. We're not talking about him. We are talking about the Kaczynski brothers, the brothers Kaczynski. And we're going to do that now. This is the worst segue I think we've done in quite some time.
00:08:37
Speaker
All right, Josh, hit me with some Polish pronunciation of people's names. Right, so today we are going to be talking about the brothers Lech and Jarosław Kaczynski. These two Polish men are twin brothers. Apparently they were child movie stars. They parlayed their twin-ness into being adorable twin boys in some movie in Poland when they were kids, but they grew up to become country leaders.
00:09:06
Speaker
I don't know this is like a few for a few countries around Europe it doesn't it's not something I'm quite familiar with but Poland like say Russia and other ones has a president and a prime minister and they were both of them. Lech Kaczynski was president of Poland and his brother Jarosław was the prime minister at the same time which I
00:09:32
Speaker
It was certainly the first time twins
Investigating Smolensk Air Disaster
00:09:34
Speaker
had done it. I'm not sure if it was the first time siblings had done something like that before, but obviously it was fairly notable. So that's interesting as it stands, but then we get to the Smolensk Air Disaster. Yes, so we're going all the way back to the 10th of April, 2019. Twenty-nine-ten. Twenty-ten. Twenty-ten. Not that recent.
00:09:56
Speaker
No, I mean I've just got that date completely wrong. Going all the way back to the 10th of April 2010, where Lech and a whole bunch of other Polish governmental and military VIPs were on a plane basically traveling to the location of the Kaiten massacre, something we've covered in the podcast before.
00:10:18
Speaker
when their plane crashed near Slomink's North Airport in Russia and everybody on board the plane died.
00:10:27
Speaker
Yep, 69 people in total. So as you can imagine, this was a massive deal. It's not like it was the entire Polish government, but it was a bunch of important people, the president included. Now, do we want to briefly mention what the Kaiten massacre was for people who haven't listened to our series on false flag events?
00:10:49
Speaker
We probably should. I think I looked it up at the time in Katynia was the pronunciation. But you know me and my pronunciation of any word. Well, nevertheless, this was the interesting one. This was episode 157, as I recall, in the middle of our series on real false flag events that actually happened. And this was the one that put us in the uncomfortable position of defending the Nazis for an episode.
00:11:16
Speaker
because the Katynje episode was during World War II, 1940, the Soviets executed around 22,000 Polish prisoners. So that's when they say massacre, they're not kidding, and sort of hid them all in mass graves. But then when the mass graves were found on account of them being massive, they tried to blame it on the Nazis because basically, you know, who are you going to listen to, me or the Nazis?
00:11:43
Speaker
And I mean, at this point, Russia had shifted its allegiance from the Nazis to the allies. So they were going to take responsibility for something they did with their previous allies. They were going to blame their previous allies for the thing they actually did.
00:11:59
Speaker
So the Nazis certainly did a lot of very, very, very horrible things. Oh yes, I think this podcast is very, very definite on not liking Nazis. Not liking the Nazis, no, and I don't care who knows it. But it turns out this one particular incredibly horrible thing they didn't actually do, despite the fact that Russia tried to pin it on them, and in the war crimes tribunals that followed World War II,
00:12:26
Speaker
uh the sort of the u.s and the u.k who are still kind of allied with russia kind of took their side even though the evidence didn't really suggest it but anyway the the truth came out eventually no it should be pointed out that russia doesn't like poland commemorating the kite n massacre russia would rather that people don't talk about the kite n massacre
00:12:48
Speaker
at all and they especially don't want the polls to make any kind of political capital out of the fact that Russia has done bad things. Nevertheless 70th anniversary I guess is kind of significant so some people were off to commemorate it and then the plane crash happened so the official version is it was a very very heavy fog coming into Smolensk North Airport
00:13:13
Speaker
And due to a variety of errors, the pilots came in too low on their approach, clipped a tree, the plane apparently lost a wing when it hit a birch tree. They even identified the species. Lost a wing, rolled, crashed, killed everyone on board. So from- Indeed, the
00:13:37
Speaker
the report, which I'm now going to read out in my best fake Polish accent, which is going to be received pronunciation.
00:13:45
Speaker
The immediate cause of the accident was a descent below the minimum descent altitude at an excessive rate of descent in weather conditions, which prevented visual contact with the ground, as well as a delayed execution of the go-around procedure. Those circumstances led to an impact on a terrain obstacle resulting in separation of a part of the left wing with a laryon, and consequently to the loss of aircraft control and eventual ground impact.
00:14:15
Speaker
Yes, so a very serious event entirely. It's so serious that I'm not even going to make a crude sexual innuendo about the phrase delayed execution of the go-around procedure and jump straight into the fact that this was immediately investigated, obviously being a massive deal. It happened on Russian soil, so sort of Russia investigated, but Poland sent over a lot of investigators as well. Apparently, now I've seen the claim that I haven't seen
00:14:44
Speaker
sort of anything to back up the claim. Supposedly Russia was a bit cagey with some of the evidence that they wouldn't return any of the wreckage of the plane and that they wouldn't return things like the flight data recorders, although apparently they did release full transcripts or at least transcripts.
00:15:06
Speaker
of the flight data recorders, so there was a little bit of a stink around that, but essentially Russia and Poland were in agreement to begin with. And that's consistent with the way that Russia has dealt with MH17. Yes.
00:15:23
Speaker
So that was the initial investigations and what you would want to call the official version. But we're a conspiracy theory podcast and it will not surprise you at all to hear that the deaths of numerous political military VIPs has attracted a whole bunch of conspiracy theories as well, has it not?
Conspiracy Theories on Smolensk Crash
00:15:45
Speaker
It has indeed. So the Kakiski brothers were members of, in fact, one of them still is given alive, the Law and Order Party, which should immediately law into justice, I think.
00:16:00
Speaker
That's because that's because someone has written that's because I've that's somebody okay. Yes, somebody I made wrote it wrong the first time But I get it right the rest of the time. So that's okay. I say on average on average I'm not a before all right, so the law the law and justice party
00:16:16
Speaker
which is a right-wing political party in Poland. It's associated with parties such as Fideas in Hungary and the Romanian Social Democrats in Romania. So it's considered to be an illiberal party and that was it technically runs in a democracy. It doesn't really hold to the ideals of liberal democracy. They want to carve their own nationalistic patriotic way.
00:16:43
Speaker
which of course meant there was an initial disjunct between trusting whether Russia was going to do an investigation because it's Russia and trusting whether Russia was going to do a proper investigation because it wasn't being performed by the Poles.
00:17:01
Speaker
So, I mean, straight away there were suggestions that this was no mere accident, this was no freak crash, that it was actually an assassination, that it was an act of war, that it was an attempted coup.
00:17:16
Speaker
And in most cases, people would try to, would want to blame it on Russia. And obviously given that this was involved with the commemoration of an event where a bunch of Russians killed a whole bunch of Poles, there was bad blood involved.
00:17:33
Speaker
And these conspiracy theories, they were coming from pretty much at the top. One man, Artur Gorsky, who was an MP in the Law and Justice Party, pretty much straight away, very soon after the accident claimed that Smolensky air traffic controllers had been ordered, presumably by their Russian superiors, to prevent the plane from landing so that
00:18:02
Speaker
so that the president wouldn't be able to attend this commemoration, and that resulted in the crash. He walked back on that fairly quickly when people said, what the hell, dude, do you have any evidence for that whatsoever? At which point he claimed he was in a state of deep shock. Yes, emotions, emotions running high. And that caused him to make this unsupported claim. But nevertheless, President Kaczynski's brother, Yurosuaf, he also has reckoned that he thinks it was an assassination.
00:18:31
Speaker
um now it should be said yeah yeah it should be said that it's not clear that he continues to think that to the stay he but he has a has a record he has in the past indicated a sympathy towards people who think it was a conspiracy by russia to stop the polish government from being able to commemorate the kaitian massacre
00:18:54
Speaker
He's rather circumspect about talking about that today, which people take to either be walking back on it or I've said what I've said, I don't need to say any more, especially since they say anything more that cause calls, ruptures in the party. So it's just best to say nothing at all.
00:19:18
Speaker
Now, we should say that in 2010, at the time of the crash, while Lech was still president, at that point, the Law and Justice Party had been voted out, and so Yeroswaf was no longer Prime Minister. He was the leader of the opposition.
00:19:36
Speaker
And so at the time, and for some time afterwards, he talked about this idea that it was some sort of an assassination and claimed that Donald Tusk, who was the prime minister at the time, was involved in some sort of a cover-up.
00:19:52
Speaker
And then the other figure who came up a bit is Antony Mazerovitz, who was at one time defence leader and deputy leader of the Law and Justice Party. So he apparently has also pushed this theory. And in 2015, when the usual political cycle came around again and Law and Justice found themselves back in power, they commissioned another investigation, which was headed up by Mr Mazerovitz.
00:20:23
Speaker
And in, it started in 2016 and 2018, it published a report which basically said the plane had been destroyed in the air by an explosion that it had not crashed. And that Russian air traffic controllers at this Minsk Airbase had misled the pilots about the plane's location during its approach to the runway. So those are the official ones. There have been a fair few other conspiracy theories though. It should also point out that
00:20:50
Speaker
Lauren Justice's vendetta against Tusk continues to this day. So Tusk was interviewed in the first investigation for the air disaster and found to not have anything to do with it. When Lauren Justice came back into power as a dominant party in Poland and they did their second investigation, they re-litigated all of their complaints about Tusk again.
00:21:14
Speaker
and once again found that he probably had nothing to do with it whatsoever, and there are still talks about trying to get Tusk in front of the courts for a third time, because it seems that the conclusion is he definitely did it, we just need to find a way to prove it. Shades of Benghazi? Basically, yes. The Somesk Air Disaster is the Benghazi of Poland. You heard it here folks.
00:21:38
Speaker
Makes sense. So I mean, other theories, people have claimed that Russia, that it wasn't thick fog. The thick fog was no accident that artificial fog had been pumped out. Or geo weapons, so using the weather against the poles. Yeah, weather control.
00:22:01
Speaker
Yeah, planting explosives on the plane. So we'll talk a bit more in a minute about these claims that the explosives were involved. Claims of interfering with the bodies, faking autopsies, sewing the bodies of victims back together. Some people say that the Kremlin had murdered Kaczynski specifically because he had traveled to Georgia to support Georgia in its war with Russia. So there was a political motive involved.
00:22:29
Speaker
And of course it's not unknown for Russia to be rather angsty about people supporting things that it doesn't like. We've covered multiple instances of that on this podcast alone.
00:22:42
Speaker
Speaking of which, NATO, an organization that has been at odds with Russia in the past, they were a little uncomfortable about the whole thing because some of the military officials on the plane had secret NATO sort of communication key codes, had USB sticks and so on that had important NATO information of
NATO's Concerns and Investigation
00:23:05
Speaker
it.
00:23:05
Speaker
which, assuming they weren't destroyed in the crash, all presumably would have ended up in the hands of the Russians as well.
00:23:12
Speaker
which given that the theory goes that Russia didn't hand over any physical evidence after their investigation, means that if those things survived, then Russia was able to cover that up. So as to the explosions, there were a local magazine, I think, early on during the very first investigation, made claims that traces of explosives were found during the crash investigation
00:23:39
Speaker
Apparently, Polish the prosecutors fairly quickly said, no, that's not true. Certain trace chemicals were found, but though there were a bunch of things that could have caused that, explosives are just one of them. There are plenty other common substances that could have resulted in those readings.
00:23:58
Speaker
And that makes me think of the whole complaint against genetic engineering with don't you realize they're putting fruit fly DNA into our potatoes? Okay, so we do realize that genetically, most of us have fruit fly DNA somewhere in us anyway.
00:24:14
Speaker
Yes, the way it all works out. So the case against explosives is apparently the way the wreckage was found. The wreckage was found in a fairly small area, which is what you'd expect if a plane crashed into the ground, whereas if it exploded in the air, the wreckage should have been over a much wider area, which supposedly it was not. And the layout of the wreckage itself in an explosion, apparently you would expect to see
00:24:41
Speaker
stuff from the inside of the plane, or at least if the plane does crash, you'd expect to see stuff from the inside of the plane wouldn't appear in the wreckage until the plane had actually hit the ground and broken up. Whereas in a mid-air explosion, you could have internal materials sort of scattered around and mixed in with it. And apparently that was also not the case. But other people have claimed that the wreckage tells a different story.
00:25:05
Speaker
Well yes, so British air exit investigator Frank Taylor, who investigated the Lockerbie bombing. We've never talked about the Lockerbie bombing, have we? Never talked about Lockerbie, no. No, maybe we should, yes. Maybe we should do a whole series of air disasters. Might get a little depressing, but we could give it a go. Airplane, Airplane 2, the sequel. We could try to make Airplane 3. I mean, Leslie Nielsen's still alive, isn't he? Oh, if you can call that living.
00:25:32
Speaker
Oh yes, that's true. So he analyzed high-res photos of the crash site. It's probably important to note he didn't actually go to the crash site itself. He simply looked at photos that were provided to him. And his claim is that Russia's investigation was basically post-factor. They had a conclusion that the plane hit a tree, rolled, and crashed into the ground. And then they fitted their evidence to suit.
00:26:01
Speaker
based on the fact he doesn't think the photos actually match that particular type of crash. But conversely, people would claim that's what he's doing as well, and that he was suspicious of the crash narrative in the first place. So then looked at the photos and went, oh, what can I find which is unusual about these photos? So then justify the claim, I think the evidence was rigged in the first place.
00:26:29
Speaker
Yeah, so he sort of seemed to think that the way certain things, the direction of certain things, the way they'd gone, wasn't consistent with the plane's wing hitting a tree. So he thought that there had been some sort of explosion on the wing, which had caused stuff to hit to the tree after the wing had exploded off the plane or something. That's sort of the story he seemed to tell.
00:26:54
Speaker
It sort of reminds me of the 9-11 truthers who get to the point of saying, ah, so they planted explosives on the building, and the ones above where the plane supposedly hit made it look like it was collapsing freefall, and the ones under didn't sort of tell this very complicated story how the explosions were designed to make it look exactly like it was crashing. And he sort of seems to be telling a story of how these explosives were carefully placed.
00:27:21
Speaker
to make it look like a plane hit a tree when it seems like the simpler explanation is simply that a plane hit a tree. And indeed, if you were going to fake that specific scenario, you'd need to ensure that you'd need to get the plane off course that it's close enough to the trees. Like, you know, if it exploded way, way up in the sky, then it wouldn't look like it hit a tree anyway. So they'd need to get it. And if I could do that, why not crash it into a tree anyway?
00:27:48
Speaker
Yeah, he's a, what do you call it? He's a minority report. He's a dissenting opinion. You're saying he's a Tom Cruise film. He is a Tom Cruise film. He's literally, what's her name? Emily Watson or whoever it was lying in a tank of goo, literally. Isn't the Emily Watson film Edge of Tomorrow? No, that's Emily Blunt. And it's not Emma Watson. I'm thinking of the other one, but it doesn't matter. Emily Morton.
00:28:15
Speaker
Mortimer Morton, again, doesn't he? Hi, you're listening to the podcast's guide to Tom Cruise films. We don't know the names of actors in the films, other than the fact that Tom Cruise is in them. But yes, so basically there have been claims of an explosion, but I haven't seen anything particularly concrete.
Identity Mix-ups and Speculations
00:28:34
Speaker
that would suggest it was anything other than an impact with a tree. But what about the bodies Joshua? What about the bodies? Yes, now as you can imagine a plane, a sort of a fiery plane crash meant that in many cases there wasn't a lot left of the bodies and what was left was not in one piece. So there was a lot of, there was a lot of searching done to recover and identify all the remains.
00:29:00
Speaker
There was some report where a person suggested that they sort of sifted through the ground down to a depth of a metre, the whole area, and got everything they found, though apparently that was a misunderstanding of what they meant was that when they found a body part, or any sort of human remains,
00:29:17
Speaker
they would in that area dig down to a depth of a meter and look all around. They claimed that they were fairly thorough in their search, although then people later said that this was the crashes in April, supposedly people who sort of made something of a pilgrimage to the site in September of that year, reckon they found human remains out there themselves, suggesting they hadn't got everything. But there was talk of, we mentioned before, sort of fake autopsies and bodies being stitched together weirdly.
00:29:45
Speaker
In Poland, the son of a political activist who was on the plane claims that the wrong body was returned to him and that he was threatened with jail for speaking out about this and claims that no relative can be sure they've actually buried their loved ones. So yes, there were claims of
00:30:05
Speaker
at the very least uh mix-ups with the human remains although from the sounds of things given the state of some of the remains perhaps that was that was inevitable although one of the things that comes out of this is if and there's a big if here the theory is that they were finding remains in the forest well after the event so 18 months after the
00:30:28
Speaker
the initial search and investigation then that might support hypothesis of explosion in mid-air because if the original investigation was limited to the crash site based upon the plane hitting a tree rolling and crashing into the ground then of course you'd expect the bodies to be located in a fairly well-defined small area.
00:30:49
Speaker
If you then start finding bodies outside of that area, then that suggests that maybe the crash isn't as described. The problem here being that the theory that they found bodies outside of the area is largely rumor and conjecture. We don't have evidence they found additional bodies from that plane crash. So if they did, that might suggest the conspiracy theory that the crash was a mid-air explosion.
00:31:18
Speaker
But there's a really big if operating there. So those seem to be the main elements of conspiracy theories around the plane crash. But there's another little aspect to it, of course, because as we said right at the start, we're talking about twins, twin brothers, one of whom died. And that scenario has been just a little bit too tempting for people to suggest what if,
00:31:44
Speaker
there had been some sort of a switcheroo. What if the twin who we thought died actually didn't? And the twin who's now alive isn't the one that we think they are in some sort of weird, not quite parent trap. Actually, you mentioned the prestige, some sort of the prestige type situation. Now, what's interesting about this particular theory of a twin pretending to be the other twin?
00:32:11
Speaker
is that in this case it kind of did happen because after Lech died in the air disaster, his brother pretended to be him
00:32:23
Speaker
when visiting their mother in hospital because it turned out that their mother was ailing with a fairly serious illness and the surviving brother went I don't really want to tell mum that my brother is dead and she's going in and out of consciousness because she's quite ill so I will dress up like my brother to go and visit her
00:32:47
Speaker
and if she gets better then I'll explain the ruse to her because I think at the moment if I tell her her son is dead she's going to die as well.
00:32:56
Speaker
And I believe, yeah, at other points, made up stories about where Lech was to the extent of, I think I read something in that article about faking newspapers about, oh yes, no, he can't come in for you now because he's off on this official trip. See, he has a newspaper article about it. He went to that extent as well of trying to spare his mother. And apparently, I believe she did recover and he was eventually able to tell her the truth. Yes, yeah.
00:33:26
Speaker
One does have to wonder. I mean, it just seems a little bit cute, I guess, suggesting this sort of thing. It's kind of something people, a theory people would come up with just because it makes for a good story, I suppose. I mean, would there be any advantage to the brother, the surviving brother, using this situation to trade places?
00:33:46
Speaker
No, I mean, you can imagine, and I don't really have to stretch, imagine here, imagine a situation where you have two twins, one of which is president of the country, one of which hopes to be prime minister, end up going, you know, you pretend to be president this week, you know, see what it's like to have a little bit of power.
00:34:04
Speaker
but you can't actually imagine that working long term because there's going to be a whole bunch of policy things you're just not going to get right or procedural things that people will begin to note and they kind of know you're a twin so they're going to end up going yeah you're uh you're just pretending to be lek today aren't you you're actually not lek at all but I think apart from the fact there was the impersonation of the other in front of the mother which wasn't meant to rhyme but does
00:34:34
Speaker
The fact that both twins have held high position in Polish government since, not since, one before, one afterwards, has led people to go, there is something unusual about this political dynasty. It's almost as if
00:34:57
Speaker
the brother who died on the plane wasn't the president because the brother who survived is the president now.
00:35:07
Speaker
So I think there's a little bit of post hoc ergo proctor hoc going on here, which is we want to explain why it is these twins have been so powerful in politics. It's almost easier to pretend they're a singular individual than go, no, actually, one of them simply succeeded the other.
00:35:29
Speaker
Yeah, so I mean, no matter which way you look at it, though, it's still quite an interesting case. It's unique, as far as I'm aware, instance of twins leading a country at various times. And then you have a tragic death on top of it. Or I think tragic death, no matter what you think, whether or not that was a tragic accident or something more sinister is another issue.
00:35:58
Speaker
And I think that's all we had to say on the interesting case of the Brothers Kicinski. Indeed. Now, on a administrative note, Josh, have you been noticing some weird pauses in tonight's video transfer?
Technical Issues in Podcasting
00:36:11
Speaker
Yes, you've occasionally sort of slowed down and then sped up a little bit to catch up. I think our internet connection has been slightly taxed. Yes, in fact, I think the internet connections for the entire country are slightly taxed at this particular point
00:36:27
Speaker
time, with a lot of people in their isolated bubbles, using the internet more so than usual. The country's IT infrastructure has been ever so slightly under load, which might explain some of the weird verbosity or silences in this recording, as we're trying to cover the fact that I don't think
00:36:51
Speaker
I've got through to the other side just yet because there's been a few times where I've said something and there's been a two or three second delay before you've made your customary before moving on to your next point. Yes, no, we've had a couple of points at my end when you've just...
00:37:10
Speaker
go on and then suddenly started talking very quickly for a second until you resumed your usual pace. Now if we could predict when these occurred, we could start talking very slowly.
00:37:28
Speaker
do counteract that affair. But I guess to know that, yes, but then you'd have to know what I'm seeing of you at my end, and I'd have to give you some sort of signal, because at that time, the connection's gone wonky, you'd get the signal too late, so to probably end up amplifying the weird slowly downy speedy up stuff. What we need is a kind of referee in the middle, then tells us when to go and when to stop.
00:37:51
Speaker
Yes, anyway, I think the point is core quality is probably being a bit dodgy this episode. So sorry about that. But that's the reality of the locked down world that we're living in. Indeed. Now, of course, for patrons, we have bonus content coming up and oh, the bonus content we have. We're going to talk about the fact that Alex Jones is going to reveal the identity of Q to the entire world.
00:38:19
Speaker
Then we're going to do a little bit of the traditional COVID-19 discussion, which is going to feature federal people seizing hospital supplies, miracle cures being put forward by Silicon Valley, including a whole list of interesting side effects you might get from using those particular cures.
00:38:41
Speaker
a rehash of the old 5G causes COVID-19 and a little bit of additional we're going to we're going to both start and end with Alex Jones news.
00:38:53
Speaker
So if you're a patron, stick around for that. If you're not a patron and you'd like to be, go to patreon.com and search for the podcaster's guide to the conspiracy, or go to where this podcast is hosted at conspiracism.podbean.com and use their native patronage thing. And remember, next week, all going well, we'll be live streaming the episode to our patrons via Discord. Yes, which means we can
00:39:20
Speaker
like take questions um i'm thinking we probably won't take questions in the main episode but we might take questions if there are people actually listening in and interacting with us in the patron bonus episodes it's kind of the test bed for doing a call-in love line style thing we can give you advice it is of no use to you whatsoever some sort of agony aren't business or
00:39:49
Speaker
I mean, I guess the other possibility is if you've ever wanted to sort of heckle us and if you find yourself sort of shouting at the podcast while you listen to it because of the obviously ludicrous things we say, you could get in and actually vent at us for real, actually genuinely dent our egos. But to do that, you will have to give us money. Because you can only heckle us if you give us at least a dollar a month.
00:40:13
Speaker
Yep, patrons only for the heckling. And, Drew, if you're thinking, I want to heckle you, your heckling privileges have to be $2 a month. Anyway, so that brings this week's episode to an end. The podcaster's guide to the conspiracy in lockdown. It's going to be that way for at least another couple of weeks. I mean, the lockdown period was definitely going to be four weeks. They've said they won't be finishing it early, no matter what.
00:40:41
Speaker
they're only going to make an announcement of whether we're going to move down to alert level three two days before the lockdown is meant to end anyway. Yep, so it'll be some time before we know whether or not we can actually, although I suppose once the lockdown ends you'll be back down to Hamilton and we'll be
00:40:57
Speaker
Well, it's not clear because the university will not be doing any face to face teaching at all this year. So I am renting a room down in Hamilton. So I have to go down at some point to sort that out. But in reality, there's no need for me to necessarily be in Hamilton.
00:41:16
Speaker
So it kind of depends on whether the university reopens. So if they reopen the offices, then I'll go back down because having an office to work in is better than not having an office to work in. But if it turns out the university is completely shut down and you're doing online teaching, I can do that anywhere in the world.
00:41:36
Speaker
Well, so who knows then, once all this lockdown business is over, we may have side by side recordings unhampered by dodgy internet connections. But until then, you'll just have to put up with this, the same as the rest of the world, I suppose. Indeed. The future remains uncertain. But what is certain is that it's the end. And what do we do at the end?
00:42:01
Speaker
We say goodbye as far as going. No, it wasn't. It wasn't anything fancy. You never want to do anything fancy. You never want to do anything fancy. No, watch me not do something fancy right now. Goodbye, everyone. Toodly-pip-pip.
00:42:25
Speaker
You've been listening to the podcaster's guide to the conspiracy, starring Josh Addison and Dr. M.R. Extended, which is written, researched, recorded and produced by Josh and Em. You can support the podcast by becoming a patron, via its Podbean or Patreon campaigns. And if you need to get in contact with either Josh or Em, you can email them at podcastconspiracyatgmail.com or check their Twitter accounts, Mikey Fluids and Conspiracism.
00:43:26
Speaker
And remember, they're coming to get you, Barbara.