Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to In Cadence, where we talk about what it looks like to share the gospel in our lives with the military community. Join us as we talk about what God is doing in the lives of our service members and how we can be a part it.
Speaker: Hey, Hutch. Welcome back to the In Cadence podcast. We haven't sat in this room for a while together. too yes It's been a minute. The summer was a wild one, but good to be back. If you could describe your summer in two and a half words, what how would you describe it?
Speaker: Two and a half. Yeah.
Speaker: unexpected chaos because on is half a word, right? Yeah. I'll give it to you. yeah Actually, that's really well done. For the listeners, you can tell this is an undescripted edition of the in cadence podcast. And we're going to be starting a new segment, which ah you, the listener can send in questions that you want us to to talk about or that you have. And so we're going to do that this morning. um But yeah, our summers were around the world and different places, lots of travel. um
Speaker: was it Was the travel decent for you? Did do you get stranded anywhere? Didn't get stranded. Had a few, you know, random um upgrades or bumped flights, you know, that things were so busy this year, like getting ah getting moved up to a little more legroom is always nice because my... I have really long legs. You don't get to see that in the podcast. You're welcome, everyone who's listening. But man, when I get stuck in the back of the plane, i i actually have to wedge myself into my seat and the seat in front of me. So there's it's always nice when I can bump up to the middle of the plane instead of the back of the plane. I'm six foot four. so so I'm six foot. ah My son, he's two, two and a half inches shorter than me, but we have the same length legs.
Speaker: we We just figured that out recently. So I get what you mean. Your knees hit that seat in front of you. Just kind of cram in. So it's it's always nice to get a little extra room. But honestly, the strangest part of flying is the conversations about the the inevitable conversation. We sit down next to someone on the plane is ah where are you going or what are you traveling to X place for and what do you do? And the what do you do question for someone in ministry is always a little strange. yeah People have their boxes and they have preconceived ideas about faith and Christianity and ministry. And you want that to be a good conversation, but it always feels ah that like a trap to...
Speaker: Does that feel that way for you too? It does for me. And then, okay, so I've been with Cadence over 20 years. How many for you? Almost 20. Almost 20. And so I've also found that I kind of have some stock phrases that I use.
Speaker: And actually over the last year, I've been challenging myself to not use my stock phrases. Yes. Yeah, yeah. When I describe what I do and try to almost refresh my... ah my description of, of what we do. Okay. So let's say you're on a domestic flight. yeah say you're not, uh, first off, are you the person that puts in your headphones quick to signal to the person next to you that, uh, Hey, conversations off limits, or do you let it play out a little bit? That's a good question. I i kind of like you changing your phrases. I'm really challenging myself to not
Speaker: lock into my headphones or open my laptop or anything that's going to shut down conversation because man you you never know where those conversations are going to go and as much as I would like to keep my life small and simple that I want to stay open to those conversations because I don't you never know what's going to happen so I've been trying to not engage in that till after the drink cart comes Yeah. Yeah. Oh, the drink cart. That's a, it's kind of the marker, right? Like once that comes through, it's like, okay, we've settled in we had our chance to have conversation. and then if I need to do work or, you know, just rest a bit, then I'm going to do it after that point. Honestly, that is a phenomenal strategy because, ah the drink cart person, cause you, you start to have the conversation, ah you're both facing forward, but kind of taught not with drink cart, but you know, the conversation with the person next to you. So you,
Speaker: kind of turn and look to them. I always make sure I actually carry gum and breath mints on because I love to drink coffee. And you're that close, you know, you can't get the disc. So that's one thing I've started doing. um But then i also find that I get into the conversation far enough that I don't know how to get out of it.
Speaker: but um yeah and And maybe both of you feel like, okay, it's time to move on. But do you just start reading your book? Or do you say, well, it was the drink cart. is a perfect segue to, i am now going to do my own thing. Totally. And if it's a great conversation, then it's easy to just, like you sit down at a coffee shop and you're bonding over that common experience. You can carry it forward that way. You can break off at that point. i It works for me. All right. So this is the question of the day.
Speaker: how How would you describe what you do to the person next to you before the drink cart gets there? You know what? And You talked about having canned phrases and trying to get away from those. But I think the canned phrases are kind of, that's what naturally comes out. There's sort of the the elevator pitch, the 30-second version. How do you describe it?
Speaker: And if I'm honest, those canned phrases, it's plural because it depends... Probably most on how I'm feeling um or how my read of the person next to me. um If I see a notebook with a cross on it, they're probably going to be a little more understanding inquisitive.
Speaker: Interested if I share that I'm in ministry. ah So to say hey we work with a nonprofit ministry that supports military personnel around the world. That's a quick and easy one to share and and using the phrase ministry or talking about we do Bible studies with military personnel around the world. um If I think they're going to receive it favorably, i like to share that I want to bring that forward.
Speaker: But man, that can really light a fire under some people. And they've got a box that Christianity fits in. And as soon as they've got a label to put you in the Christian box, um it's hard to get out of. yeah It's hard to steer that conversation somewhere that's good or helpful. So um I also will share, oh, we're a nonprofit that supports military personnel around the world. and I'll leave anything of faith out of it. But that's That's the quick phrase. And almost always someone's got a family member in the military or they served and like, oh, where have you been? And where are you at? I was stationed here. It starts those different kind of conversations. So I either focus on the ministry aspect or the military aspect. Yeah. And see where that takes the conversation.
Speaker: That's great. How about you? do What are some of the kind of. express quick elevator pitch ways you explain it. Well, I'll get to those in just sec, but you made me think. ah So this summer I was in Africa. Yeah. I was in Burundi where Cadence has some ministry work, but flew to Addis Ababa and we had like ah an 11 p.m. flight out of Addis all the way to Chicago via Rome. It ended up taking 18 and a half hours. However, sat down next to the guy, a guy next to me. And somehow, i mean, it's before the plane took off. All this is taking place and transpiring. And he goes first and he's actually a a pastor, was down there doing some pastor training. um
Speaker: i let him go for like four or five minutes before I told him that I'm a Christian and ah that I really like... And not a bad way, but I just kind of wanted to hear his way of ah of explaining what he does to someone that he doesn't know whether, you know, like I'm a favorable audience or a skeptical audience or whatever. So maybe it was unkind to me. he wasn't floundering or anything. I mean, he you could tell he's he's had these conversations on planes before. So it was kind of fun for me inside the to let him ah wonder what I was a little bit. Yeah, exactly. um so I, I'm the same way as you, it it depends on the audience. Um, and in some ways you are trying to figure out, uh,
Speaker: what what they want to hear. Because, I mean, we really can describe cadence. I mean, at the core of what we do is Jesus. Yeah. You know, and so we want to talk about Jesus as much as we can. And yet, I mean, you've been around the block enough, sometimes just the word Christian or Jesus or ministry shuts down the conversation to the degree you don't ever get the chance to talk about Jesus. Yeah.
Speaker: So there is kind of this wisdom of of feeling the other person out, trying to see how receptive. i mean, we use if you know we can talk about nonprofit.
Speaker: ah We can talk about Christian ministry. we can i work with chaplains in the military. you know that can And then kind of see how they respond to it. um And that's not to say if You know, if I sense that they're not a Christian or not interested that I'm going to avoid, but it's going to lead up to it. You know, it's almost like, let me earn their their hearing before I'm going to start talking about ah Jesus, you know, or talk about the Christian aspects of it. And so i often say that we're part of a nonprofit ministry. That word like right there, like, you know, does that mean like a ah federal ministry of whatever? or does it mean Christian? You kind of feel them out. But anyways, a non a nonprofit Christian ministry that works with chaplains um is kind of one of my stock phrases that I'm trying to get away from. Another stock phrase I'm trying to get away from is that we come alongside chaplains and help round out the work that they do.
Speaker: And then often when they looked at me kind of puzzling, like, okay, so what does that mean? You know, or they asked a follow-up question. Then I like to say, well, I'm sure you're familiar with the church.
Speaker: And on every day of the week, the church is active and involved in doing something. Well, when it comes to military chapels and chaplains, they don't have the time and the resources that the local church in America does. And so we want to provide, ah we want to serve soldiers and their families like the other six days. You think about what happens on Sunday in a church. Well, the chaplains and the chapels, they do that really well.
Speaker: And the other six days of the week, they're out there with soldiers, they're counseling, they're doing a bunch of things. And we want to come alongside and help provide the other six days of the week. And I think that sometimes helps people yeah catch on to it. That resonates for a lot of people, for sure. And that idea of support and filling in what a chaplain does, because even what chaplains do is semi, I think, a mystery to most people. But they understand who a chaplain is and understand like as you described the framework that we get to fill in, I i find that most people will understand that they'll listen to that. um
Speaker: You know, I really like what you said. Like, I think for both of us, our heart and desire is that we would be able to have a conversation that moves people yeah towards Christ, or is the opportunity to share the love of Christ with people. And i think hospitality is one of those things that we do so well that is unique. And when you're having the airplane conversation, the hospitality industry, you know, it's hotels and Airbnbs and those kind of things. So that always brings up some curiosity and creates a really fun opportunity to frame something about ministry, which is an open and shared life because I've been saved because I've been rescued and redeemed. That's what my faith um is, is my faith is in Jesus who saved me That I get to open up my life and share it with other people. That's what Cadence does. We are about sharing the gospel in our lives. And that sharing of my life um is is something about, we talk about building community and all of that. That always seems to really intrigue people. yeah Because people are looking for relationship. They're looking for community. And to talk about hospitality in a way that maybe they haven't heard it before, those tend towards really usually interesting conversations and interested conversations where people want to ask questions and understand more. what
Speaker: What does that mean, hospitality? Okay, so I'm going to chase that one for just a sec. we're We're sitting on a plane. We're at however many thousand feet up in the air. Um, you've given me kind of the elevator pitch and I'm, I'm a businessman who's, who's not jumped wholeheartedly into your, your explanation of what you do. So I'm, you can kind of tell that I'm skeptical or I'm, I'm not a Christian, you know? Um, but yeah.
Speaker: Like, okay, so here's my follow-up question to you is, okay, you mentioned hospitality. Like, do you guys run hotels or like, okay, now I'm kind of confused. what What do you mean by that? what Okay, so what do you guys, how does that play out in what you do? Yeah, that's a great question because thank you I think we get, yeah, sure. We get... um I think we get pretty busy. I mean, where are you going right now? Tell me about your trip and, you know, your schedule's probably already planned out and it's gonna be pretty busy. And i i want to give them an opportunity to share about their life. So, yeah, I'll often invite them to share their busyness, which I find people are really excited to do.
Speaker: Usually like this is this is what I'm going to do. This is what I'm responsible for. And they like to share those things, especially the businessman. And, ah and because it's what they care about, it's what they're invested in, it's what they've been doing for years. um and And then it's really easy to acknowledge that that sounds really full.
Speaker: And what we do is we take people's full, busy lives in the military and we create space for relationship. um We invite them into our homes and we actually create a place where they can set aside the busyness and they can be present with one another. They can learn about God who loves them, they can experience the care of people, our staff that are out there in the world, an open home, a hot meal, a conversation, genuinely caring about them and who they are.
Speaker: That's what we do. And we do that because of how Christ has loved us. yeah and And so there's different ways to kind of engage in those different pieces of it. But it really, I really believe that what we do in hospitality is a reflection of the gospel. It's incarnate ministry. God's stepping into our world and showing his love for us that while we were still sinners, he died for us. There's so much of that that is just deeply rooted in hospitality. And our staff are out there in the world laying down their lives to live in and among military people in their world, going to them and sacrificially sharing their lives and opening up their homes. And so there's so much in that that
Speaker: I think people long for relationship. We said that earlier. They long for margin and space yeah and freedom. And when we open up a space that creates that, that's really what hospitality is about is the care of a person and space for the care that they need. um That's what we're giving. We just know that spiritual care is one of those pieces of care we're looking for and often miss out on.
Speaker: And so there's there's different ways that that conversation can go and as you read it, but at the core, that's what I love to share about hospitality. That's good. Appreciate All right. I'm no longer that businessman. So ah back to being just Brian.
Speaker: ah and here I'm asked this question because it's happened to me. ah have you ever had the the incident where you, you share kind of the, the 60 second version of what you do and their immediate response is to look at you and be like, was I swearing at all?
Speaker: Like all of a sudden conviction comes over that like, Oh wait, you're a pastor or something like that. Oh, They almost want to say like an explicit of there, but then they. That's one of the reasons I'm kind of tentative about it. It happens all the time. soon as people find out you're in full time ministry, they start confessing sin. They want to repent. They want to they feel bad about whatever they said on the phone five minutes ago. Like it's really entertaining. But like.
Speaker: you don't want to do that to people either, right? But yeah, a hundred percent. do A lot of grace. And I love the ones who are just deeply honest about it, you know, cause you know, maybe you've been talking, just shooting the breeze for ah like 10 minutes before they even asked what you do. And then all of a sudden they're trying to replay their whole conversation in their head real quick. And they'll just be like,
Speaker: Did I swear or anything? Did I offend you? I'm like, Hey, I work with soldiers. you know I work with the military. That's right. I get it. You're fine. This is a lower bar than what I'm used to. yeah We invite that stuff into our house because we want them to be real. We want to be real with them. Sometimes that's the way I even explain, um, you know, like some of our ministries have bunk rooms and places for soldiers, single soldiers to like spend the weekend and stuff. Um,
Speaker: And we always tell them like, and if if you're going to hang out with us for the weekend, you're probably going to see my wife and I fight. Yeah. um But we hope you see us argue and fight in a godly way. And you're going to hopefully see us resolve it. You're going to see us parent. You're going to see the messiness of our kids, you know, that they're not perfect kids, you know. And so, yeah, when you when we do hospitality and when we invite people in, they get to see the good, the bad and the ugly. Mm hmm. But that's also transparent way of following after Jesus in which, I mean, God doesn't ask us to be perfect people.
Speaker: He asks us to be faithful yeah um when we when we mess up, to be faithful in our apologies, in our forgiveness. We find a lot of people don't even think about the idea of forgiveness. You know, like they'll apologize and then the other person's like, oh, that's all right.
Speaker: And we're like, no, it's not all right. Like, I wronged you. That's why I'm saying I need you to forgive me. And also, it's kind of like, that's interesting. yeah Never thought about that concept, really. Totally. Well, and living that way, the confusion or the disruption that that causes is back to kind of the response to swearing on the plane is most people's first response to faith or to Christianity is shame.
Speaker: I've done wrong. and I'm one down. I'm one less. God looks down on me. He judges me. You, a pastor, judge me. And that actually the invitation of the gospel is to come and be free of that. yeah um And anything that can steer a conversation to that place where you can disrupt the shame and offer value to a created a created person who is loved by God any way that you can name that is like the, that's how I want those conversations to go. If they can move that direction, that's, that's a win in my book. Yeah. Why I try to keep the headphones off till the drink cart. Yeah. Well, and I think the, the idea of, uh, we, we don't want people to feel shame. I mean, good convictions. Great. But shame is never what God wants us to feel. um
Speaker: it's, it's, uh, I've been doing more research on trauma care and one of the authors says that shame is the henchman of trauma. Um, but even as you just mentioned that I'm kind of thinking like shame is, is the henchman of the devil.
Speaker: Yeah. Like he wants to take shame and twist it. uh, ah There's a great book out there called The Soul of Shame that really digs into this topic, which obviously we're not going to cover in the next couple minutes. um last Last kind of question I want to throw your way is is we're starting to wrap up. um So you were in in Japan for 12, 13 years.
Speaker: running a cadence ministry that was full of hospitality. was hospitable. um But did you also have even the people who are in your ministry that they would come to a Bible study or different events throughout the week, but then they're also kind like so what do you do all day?
Speaker: and like, what do you do all week? Almost like, yeah, I know you have us in your home for this, these three hours or whatever, but do you do anything else the rest of the week? Do you get that? And how would, how do you respond to that? Oh my gosh. all the time. And when I was doing student ministry, i got it even more because I think the service members, they would understand chaplains and they don't see them all the time, but they're there and they're available. They care. And so there's a correlation there, but man, for students, like, you know, we'd show up at a school lunch or, you know, whatever. And they're like, wait,
Speaker: is your job? What do you do do? you just go home and play video games after this? Like, get get ready for to take me on tonight? You know, like that's right. Yeah. so gotten that question a lot. um And it really is ah consistently, it was always just really disarming for the person to say, this is my job.
Speaker: My job is to be available. My job is to care. My job is to create time and spaces like this. my My job is my passion and my passion is to know Jesus yeah and to bring you along for the journey. yeah And this is what I want to do. And so something along those lines that reflected that my job and my passion aligns yeah and it's moving towards Jesus um was always an invitation for them to consider it. Yeah. And I would even say it's it's even challenging for us, even on our side of it, because every week is so different.
Speaker: yeah I mean, I was a soldier for six years. You know, you get up in the morning, you go to PT, shower, you come back, you have formation. And then, you know, a certain day of the week, you have command maintenance, everybody's in the motor pool. And then on this day, it's this and we have these training days.
Speaker: And so there's just this structure and routine. And it's it's easy. OK, this is what I did this week. Um, I think even for incarnational ministry, uh, every week is different. Every day is different.
Speaker: Uh, we, we do want to be available, but that's not mean, doesn't mean we're just sitting around waiting for a phone call. Um, there's ah a lot of things we're, we're in the chapel community. Um, you know, so we're, we're serving the chaplains in ways that we can. Sometimes that even means,
Speaker: My wife, she she led the Awana program on our military installation. And so it meant she had to get all her volunteers background checked, you know, and she's like going through all that process. So there are things, it it's funny because there is so much that we do that we have to fight for margin as well.
Speaker: And yet it's hard to put into words what we do every day. Yeah. And so it's this complicated, like, sometimes it was just like, well, let me think through yesterday and just walk you through yesterday because that's all I can describe to you because I don't know what today is going to be. Yeah, yeah. I think it's one of the beautiful things that we we do is that availability and that presence. yes we We want to put things, and even back to the airplane conversation, people have their assumptions, they have their boxes, yeah because that's how you frame and understand something is by simplifying and distilling it to something, a nine to five, a certain set of responsibilities or, you know, a Sunday morning service and that defines who i am and what I do. And I think the beautiful thing about what we do is that living in and among a people for the sake of sharing Jesus and the freedom and the variability that comes with that something really beautiful about what we do, but it takes some explanation. It's hard to understand it until you've seen it. yeah um So, so many of our friends, supporters, people who've been alongside of us in ministry over the years, When they come and visit ministry and they see it they go, oh, this is what you're talking about. um And it's one of the beauty so of the things that we do, but it does make it hard to explain. Yeah. And so often they're like, I had no idea. Yes. Like, yeah, we didn't either.
Speaker: So, all right, let's land this plane figuratively. um You've been on the plane, you got the drink cart and then you guys all. And so now you're coming in for landing. He's closed up his computer. You know, you have the rest of the conversation with where this person is. what What do you want that person to take away just ah about you? If they got home and their spouse is there and he or she was like, hey, I sat next to this guy. what What do you want them to take away both what they think and what they feel? Hmm.
Speaker: I would love for them to take away that that sense of care that they were cared for. yeah And i'm I met this Christian. He really cares about people. And he was interested in me. Yeah, that's right. So that there were questions towards them that they felt cared for. I always try to end that flight with, you know, if the faith is out there between us, then I want to ask them, how can I pray for you?
Speaker: Almost nobody turns that down and it speaks care to that person. And and if I can't, I'll, you know, if they'll let me, I'll pray for them right there in the seat before we get off the plane. And that's that final taste in their mouth that like the Lord is good. He cares about me. He sees me. If they're walking away with that, that's that's top tier for sure. Yeah. You? Yeah.
Speaker: Um, yeah, I want them to to know, to to experience authenticity. Um, I want to know as much about them as they know about me. Um, and, so and so it is the back and forth conversation that happens really quickly. Um, and honestly, I just, I would love for them to walk away feeling cared for, feeling seen.
Speaker: Um, but it is also going, that's a different person. Like, uh, like like There's something different about ah who they are, what they do, and why they do it. yeah um and They can put into words what what that different is, um but maybe it stirs up just more some more questions for them or thoughts. and and I agree with you. Praying for the person there, which is pretty powerful often, but then also you know as i walking through the terminal, just I'll see them up ahead as they walk ahead and just continue to pray that somehow that conversation, God uses it.
Speaker: for what for either bringing faith into their life or growing their faith if if they already are a follower of Jesus. Yeah. great. Hutch, this is fun. I appreciate this opportunity to just kind of banter back and forth and do this with you on a regular basis. To our listeners, if you have questions that you or topics that you'd like us to engage with, you can send them to info at cadence.org and just let them put in there that it's a question for the podcast and we'll look through those and look forward to keep bantering.
Speaker: Bring on. Great.
