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112. Inside Louisville Ballet's Innovative College Partnership with Jill Marlow Krutzkamp
207 Plays9 days ago
What happens when a ballet company invests in its dancers' futures both on and off the stage?
In this episode of The Brainy Ballerina Podcast, I’m joined by Jill Marlow Krutzkamp, former professional dancer and current Artistic Director of the Louisville Ballet Studio Company.
Jill shares the story behind an exciting partnership between Louisville Ballet and Bellarmine University that allows dancers to pursue a Bachelor of Arts in Arts Administration while continuing their professional training.
Key “Pointes” in this Episode:
- Jill's professional journey from dancer to arts leader
- The partnership between Louisville Ballet and Bellarmine University
- Why higher education matters for aspiring professional dancers
- Arts administration as a career pathway
- Preparing dancers for life beyond performance
- Building sustainable careers in the dance industry
- The value of dual-career development for young artists
Connect with Jill
LOUISVILLE BALLET WEBSITE: louisvilleballet.org
LOUISVILLE BALLET STUDIO COMPANY: louisvilleballet.org/studio-company/
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/jillekrutz
Links & Resources:
SHOP MSeam Apparel: https://mseamapparel.com/ (use code BRAINY25 at checkout for 25% off all items)
SHOP ORZA: www.orzabrand.com (use code BRAINYBALLERINA for 10% off)
Let’s connect!
My WEBSITE: thebrainyballerina.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/thebrainyballerina
Questions/comments? Email me at caitlin@thebrainyballerina.com
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Hosts
00:00:00
Speaker
We want to make sure that we're giving our studio company dancers a full program that doesn't just encompass dancing because between leadership, even our board was concerned we're bringing these dancers to Louisville, but not all of them can get jobs. So how can we help them get a bigger picture type program that will help them say they don't get the job? Because that is the reality.
00:00:30
Speaker
I'm Caitlin, a former professional ballerina turned dance educator and career mentor, and this is the Brand New Ballerina podcast. I am here for the aspiring professional ballerina who wants to learn what it really takes to build a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry.
00:00:46
Speaker
I'm peeling back the curtain of the professional dance world with open and honest conversations about the realities of becoming a professional dancer. Come along to gain the knowledge and inspiration you need to succeed in a dance career on your terms.
Jill Marlow-Kreutzkamp's Dance Journey
00:01:04
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Brainy Ballerina Podcast. I'm your host, Caitlin Sloan, and I am joined today by Jill Marlow-Kreutzkamp. Jill is a former professional dancer with Pittsburgh Ballet Theater, Cincinnati Ballet, and Kansas City Ballet.
00:01:19
Speaker
She is currently the artistic director of the Louisville Ballet Studio Company and an affiliate faculty member and program coordinator of the Arts Administration Dance Track Degree at Ballerman University.
00:01:30
Speaker
Jill, we're going to talk all about this amazing new program you have. Yes. but First, I really want to just start the beginning of your story. Can you tell us why you took your very first dance class?
00:01:40
Speaker
You know, i just was born dancing, essentially. And my mom, she loved to dance. She was from a really small town and they didn't quite have like the resources for her to have dance. you know, a great professional training as she grew up in high school and such, but she always just loved dancing. And so I think the two things, I think her wanting me to get involved in dancing just because she had such an interest in it. But then I was also very much showing the interest, always wanting to like dance to music and put music on and all those things. So there was a studio about a mile down the street from the house I grew up in. And so that's where I started.
00:02:24
Speaker
And then what was your training like growing up? So I actually trained at just that dance studio called Lynn Scott School of Dance. That was the studio that was just so close to my house. It was tap, it was jazz, it was ballet. We did lyrical, that kind of stuff. And so it actually, I'm so glad and fortunate that I had that experience because to this day, I have such good memories of tapping and, you know, doing jazz combinations across the floor. And just, I think, falling in love with,
00:02:55
Speaker
moving and dancing to music. Of course I had ballet, especially as I got a little bit older, like 10, 11 years old. I did have ballet, I think like two times a week. I remember it, but I don't, like I remember being at the bar.
00:03:09
Speaker
But, you know, I don't remember like my ballet training being there necessarily, but it definitely gave me a
From Training to Professional Opportunities
00:03:18
Speaker
base. And then when I was going into seventh grade, so I think I was like 12, maybe, me and a friend who also went to Linscott School of Dance who also went on to dance professionally. The two of us, we decided we were going to go to a summer intensive, which was still in Rochester. That's where I'm from, Rochester, New York.
00:03:38
Speaker
And it was called Draper. And it was, the focus was completely more ballet focused. And so I did a four week summer intensive. And then that's when I was like, oh my gosh, I want to do this the rest of my life. And so then i begged my parents, I said, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to be a professional ballet dancer and I want to go to Draper. And they said, said well, Jill, that means that you're going to, you know, like they were looking at the schedule. and at that point it was already five times a week, you know, of mostly strict ballet. We did have jazz, we did have modern, but they were like, Jill, are you sure? Because that means that you're not going to have maybe some other opportunities. other sports or clubs or things like that. And I said, I don't care. this is what I want to do. And so then in seventh grade, I started going to Draper. And that's when my training really began.
00:04:27
Speaker
And from there, how did you transition into your first professional job or interprofessional company? So I actually went to Indiana University for one year. So right out of high school, I went to Indiana University. And then at the end of my university year, and I loved IU, I just happened to get into a car with some seniors that were graduating and they were auditioning for Cincinnati Ballet.
00:04:50
Speaker
And so I was like, yeah, sure, I'll go. And then I ended up getting a supplemental contract in Cincinnati. And this was in 2001, believe. I don't know if companies now have supplemental contracts as much, but so I basically was hired for half of the season for more of the full lengths. And so I did that.
00:05:08
Speaker
And then when that contract was up, it was at the end of Nutcracker. So I went back to school for one more semester. And then Anthony, my husband, who's now artistic director of Louisville Ballet, we met when I was a supplemental. So that we've been together that long.
00:05:22
Speaker
I actually didn't get the apprenticeship in Cincinnati. And me and Anthony had gotten resident assistant jobs at Pittsburgh Ballet Theater, summer intensive. And i just got lucky. To be honest, I got lucky. i was taking class every day. Two dancers who were contracted for the next season ended up getting jobs in England.
00:05:42
Speaker
And it was one of those negotiation years where they had letter of intent, but not contracts. so they talked to Terry Orr at the time, Terrence Orr, and asked if they could, you know, take the jobs in England. And he understood. And so there was a job open. And I just happened to be there taking class every day. And he was looking in the window over and over seeing the class. He wanted to see how things were going. And then he, you know, had seen me taking class. And so then he just took me aside and said, hey, can you come to my office? and said, could you defer from school? I have de ballet contract for you. And so I was like, yes, I can defer.
00:06:17
Speaker
yeah What year was that? What year were you an RA at Pittsburgh? I think it was summer of 2003. That's the year that I went to that summer intensive. So I feel like we might have crossed paths. Did you stay in the dorms? Yeah.
00:06:30
Speaker
Yeah, we were probably your RAs. Probably. I don't like have a yeah strong memory, but yeah. No, it happened. I feel like when I went to ABT summer intensive, we had really small groups of our RAs. Yeah. um And I feel like we had a little bit more freedom at Pittsburgh. Oh, yeah. It was just two of us. There were 96 kids. Yeah. Yeah. Because I was like, I'm literally taking care of 96 kids. But everybody was like really well behaved. You know, like I remember being at the table to sign people in and out.
00:07:00
Speaker
But I have met people that were like, you were my RA. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I'm pretty sure you are. And it's like all rushing back to me now. That's funny. So when you were going through this whole process of kind of going in and out of school, what were your parents thinking? Were they supportive of you leaving college? Oh, gosh. Yeah, well, you know, honestly, it was my decision to go to college in a way. In my senior year of high school, I was really kind of, I think this is just my personality in general, always. Like I wanted to go to school. I wanted to have that normal college experience. I grew up in a family where my dad was the first one to go to college in his family.
00:07:39
Speaker
But my mom's side, they were all educators. You know, they were high school teachers, middle school teachers. My grandfather was a principal of a high school and then a dean of a small, small like Catholic Jesuit college up in upstate New York. And so education in general and college was always something that everybody just talked about. And so I always had that inspiration, I guess, to go to school. But then I also knew I wanted to go dance and kind of live more of an unconventional life in a way. So in my senior year, I was kind of going back and forth, back and forth. And at that time, I just was like, I'm not even going to audition for companies. I'm just going to go to school and I'm going to see how this goes.
00:08:18
Speaker
But then, yeah, fluctuating through that. It's a good question because going from college to that supplemental time in Cincinnati, which was four months, it was like, you know, August through December, September through December, something like that. And then going back, when I did decide to finally go to Pittsburgh, it was more like, You know, I did have that conversation with my father in particular, and he was like, okay, well, this means you're on your own.
00:08:45
Speaker
you know, that hard conversation. And it was just, it was a conversation where I was like, yeah, I'm confident. Like, I know that I want to do this and I'm going to figure this out. I think it was one of the first times where, especially at this age now that I work with this age group and everything, you think all your decisions and at the time, like your decisions are so, so important. But I think as you get older, you realize, oh, you can always make it work or you can always change directions or you can, you know, Yeah. I tell that to my clients all the time because it is like this thought, okay, I'm going to go to college and that's I'm going to be there for four years. And like you're a great example of you could go to college for a year and then something happens, you make a different choice and then you could come back. like It's never your whole life decision. It's the next right thing to do for you and you just keep making those next right choices. Yeah. Yeah. And like I didn't know that I was going to get the supplemental opportunity. And I had no idea when I went to be an RA at Pittsburgh that I was going to get a job out of it. So, you know, I think that lesson of trusting the process, you know, go do your work, check off your checklist and keep going towards your goals. And if you're open to things, things, you know, generally will come and it might not be the things that you completely planned.
00:09:59
Speaker
Yeah. When you started your professional career, were there are a lot of learning curves that you felt like was there anything that was particularly challenging? Honestly, i think that my teachers did a very excellent job at setting us up for what we were going to have to be responsible for. So when I went into the job, this is probably not the answer that most people give. And this is probably accolades to my teachers. But, you know, I was very much, oh, this is not that bad. I was ready for this. The environment is quite nice. I think in my mind, I didn't know it was going to be quite like that. But I think that I liked the autonomy and I liked the independence. I liked that I could make more of my own choices. in what I was going to do on that hour off or, you know, how I was going to act in the back of the room when I was understudying, you know, those kinds of things, because my teacher did prepare me for all those things. But I would say now in the position that I'm in, I think that it's really, really important for dancers to kind of have that preparation, i think just like college to high school, that a lot of it's going to be in their own hands.
00:11:08
Speaker
Of course, the schedule is still going to be like hour to hour. They're going to know what they're doing. But I think just that self-autonomy of making their own choices to better themselves versus somebody always telling them exactly what to do.
00:11:24
Speaker
Yeah. How do you feel like your experiences as a professional dancer shaped the way that you're now leading the dancers in the studio company? I think that overall I was very lucky in the sense that i had jobs every single year.
Creating a Supportive Dance Environment
00:11:39
Speaker
i would say what I learned from my own career and how that has taught me to lead in the front of the room is I focus on nurturing environments. I focus on treating the dancers as human beings. So I'm very much like I talk to them on a normal scale. If they sit down, I sit down. It doesn't have to be fear-based. And I think in my, a lot of my days, it was very much like sink or swim. It was much more like fear-based. If you don't do this, you won't get the part. Or if you dance through an injury, you might not get casted for the next thing. Or you have to be able to deal with all these things because it will make you a stronger human being. And sometimes I'm like, it doesn't necessarily have to be that hard or it doesn't have to be In a way where dancers become so overly anxious or stressed that they can't perform because then that perfectionism traits that a lot of us dancers do have, they come to the forefront.
00:12:41
Speaker
You have to mentor and teach these dancers how to... learn about what they need to do to, you know, not let that kind of stuff control them. And so I have just more of that approach, which I wouldn't say most of my teachers and stuff always prioritize. It was just different. I'm not speaking poorly of anybody.
00:13:02
Speaker
That's not the point of this at all. It's just, it's 2026 Dancers are dancing longer, wellness and health have to be more at the forefront. I've seen it be very effective because as soon as dancers have that confidence in themselves and that knowing that they can take on that autonomy and independence, they really do start flourishing more in not only like dancing, but just in social contexts and communication and, you know, all those like adult responsibilities that are so important in all realms of professional careers and such. so Can you talk about in practice how that looks? How do you help coach dancers through
00:13:45
Speaker
Those perfectionist tendencies, because that is what I hear from dancers so often, experienced it myself. It's part of what gets us to this point almost, is that we have this drive within ourselves that makes us want to reach for this level of perfection that we'll never obtain, but It's almost like so innate to a dancer's personality to have that if they get to this high level because it's been driving them until it doesn't, until it kind of crushes them.
00:14:09
Speaker
And, you know, honestly, sometimes I'm like, am I helping them? Because every single person is so different. You really have to almost not jump right in. I've learned this through just the last five years of being in this role. is sometimes you can't just jump in and think that you can fix it. You know, I tend to be like a fixer, like I want everything to be fixed. It takes time. So I've learned to kind of sit back and listen, observe a little bit more.
00:14:37
Speaker
That I think has helped me because that helps me understand each dancer differently from the other because everybody is different and they all deal with things differently. So you can't take necessarily, obviously, the same approach to get them to be more confident or to let some of that go. i mean, I recently had a dancer where i'm like, okay, this is a success story because I noticed that this dancer in particular was being extremely hard on themselves to the point where I was, I knew it was getting to like an unhealthy point. It was a question of, are you injured or are you not feeling good about what you're doing? It was very hard to kind of read that. And instead of me just assuming what it was, i just slowly kind of would say, are you feeling okay? Like, is your body okay? You know, of course they'd say like, I'm fine. I'm fine.
00:15:29
Speaker
It took months to kind of figure it out. But then i just had some heart to hearts with this dancer. And then You know, I said simple things to this dancer like, you know, write down three things that you did good after the variation or write three things that made you feel good, not necessarily what you thought you did good. And I said, if you wouldn't mind, like, I would love to make this like a homework assignment. You don't have to show me this. But just start doing that. And the dancer was like, okay, I'll do it.
00:15:56
Speaker
And then like a couple weeks later, the dancer was standing in the doorway and I walked in and nobody else was there. And she's like, I just want to let you know that I've i've been doing what you asked me to do. You know, and i said, has it been helping? And this person said, yes, it's been helping. And so I think it just gets to this point where the cycle of negativity in a brain of like, you're not even concentrating on anything that you just did well. You know, you're only... thinking about all the things that you did negatively. And it's just, it's becomes this cyclical kind of unhealthy cycle for the dancer and almost as like an outsider of it. You don't want that for the person, but maybe that suggestion of writing three things that you did good wouldn't work for everybody. So I think it's just, you know, sitting back a little bit, figuring out
00:16:44
Speaker
what each person needs and then trying to like help them as much as you can. You know, some dancers are more quiet and more reserved. Some will ask like, can you help me with this? And that makes it easier, right? For us as teachers and stuff, it helps us understand it quicker, but more people are private and things like that. So it's saying like, hey, I have an open door policy or just talking to them on like a normal level. Like when you see them in the hallways and things like that. I think that then makes people a little just more comfortable. Oh, I can talk to Jill more about these things.
00:17:17
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's really great advice. You mentioned how well your pre-professional training prepared you for your
Skills Beyond Dance: Resume and Marketing
00:17:24
Speaker
career. Is there anything that you feel is missing in this current pre-professional training model that we have that you're seeing in dancers as they're transitioning? Yeah.
00:17:34
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I think that there's always things to improve. Things get so busy with all the performances and such that sometimes that resume building or helping them market for the next step, you want to be able to do that for everybody, but things get so busy that sometimes that stuff can get a little bit, not less prioritized, but it can, the dancers and the artistic and management and stuff, they'll get so focused in a way on what's coming ahead that some of the like longer term stuff can get maybe put on the wayside a little bit more than it should. So I think that's a responsibility of our pre-professional programs to figure out in the planning periods how we really can make it a little bit more accessible for them and make sure that there's that planning ahead of time in a way that all that can get done, I would say.
00:18:37
Speaker
Yeah. mean, that's basically what, that's my job, right? Because I experienced that as a school director, like you have all these great plans of how these things you want to implement and then reality kind of kicks you in the face and you're like, oh, there's only so much time. And so that's basically why I started what I do is because I know how hard it can be for schools to put that in their program.
00:18:57
Speaker
So I can help dancers, you know, kind of one-off do that, but it would be so great if there is a way to put that within the curriculum of a school, even in a small way. Yeah. Even if it's a workshop once a year or something. Yeah. And I think also just like planning of, hey, you know, you're available for them because you focus on this. It's nice to have that third party person to be able to help directly these dancers too, because like you said, reality hits. And when it comes down to it, there's only so many hours in the day. Yeah.
00:19:33
Speaker
So what can you delegate, I think, is always a good thing to think about. I had to learn that the hard way and a leadership position was you want to do everything yourself. And yeah, what can I delegate to somebody else?
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Speaker
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00:20:46
Speaker
I want to talk more about this program because you are the driving force behind a new partnership between Bellarmine University and Louisville Ballet to offer a Bachelor of Arts in Arts Administration to your
Educational Partnerships and Opportunities
00:20:57
Speaker
dancers. Can you tell us how all of this came about?
00:21:00
Speaker
Our CEO, Leslie Smart, started working on a partnership with a university for the studio company dancers. The focus of the program was to always benefit the target population essentially was the studio company dancers.
00:21:15
Speaker
Because she was seeing, as well as our school director was seeing, that a lot of programs didn't have these types of partnerships. But there was just this empathetic understanding in a way of, we want to make sure that we're giving our studio company dancers a full program that doesn't just encompass dancing. Because between leadership, even our board was concerned, we're bringing these dancers together.
00:21:45
Speaker
to Louisville, but not all of them can get jobs. So how can we help them get a bigger picture type program that will help them say they don't get the job? Because that is the reality. Our CEO started talking to different college institutions around Louisville. And Bellarmine University was like, yes, let's make this happen. They already have an existing arts administration degree through their fine arts college.
00:22:11
Speaker
And at one point they did have a theater track. And so they basically kind of had the base of the degree because originally they requested a BFA program. But then Bellarmine said, i don't think we can make that happen, but we do have this arts admin degree.
00:22:28
Speaker
And, you know, let's make that happen. Let's give them credits for that dance track. Let's have them get those credits while they're at the ballet and studying throughout the day. and then we'll then give them opportunities academic wise and stuff to be able to take those classes. online and such to fu fulfill the 120 credits that every student needs to be able to get that degree. So between our management and Bellarmine management, they had to work out all the things like the curriculum and the syllabus and all of that. And then by the time I came on, It was at the end part of the finalization of it being ready to be publicly released and such. I came at a great time. Before I got the job, you know, you have to have a bachelor's degree to be able to be this affiliate faculty member and with my resume. They thought that I would be a good person to start recruiting for the degree. I have to actually grade them for their dance classes at the end of each semester. You know, in a way, I think it helped me get this position because I had gone to college and I had an understanding of all of the aspects of it. Yeah, and I think this is so amazing because so many dancers in and this stage of life feel like they have to choose between college and pursuing, maybe going straight toward a company track. So having this opportunity to do both is so incredible.
00:23:53
Speaker
i think one important facet of this program is that it's asynchronous and you kind of designed it around rehearsals and performance schedules. How were you able to do this so that dancers can manage both?
00:24:05
Speaker
Yeah, Bellarmine said, hey, we want to increase our online classes. And so most of their general ed classes and all that stuff were already asynchronous in the system. So that made that easy. Our arts administration classes, i can't remember exactly the amount of credits. It's like 26, 28 credits or something that are arts administration specific.
00:24:27
Speaker
And those classes are actually not online yet. But the head professor of that program, she has a love for dance and she said, hey, I will make this work for them. So they're actually going to record those classes and then send those recordings to the dancers that are in the program so that they can also be asynchronous. The dancing aspect, it's 24 credits.
00:24:50
Speaker
Each semester will be four credits. So it's like ballet one, ballet two, freshman year, ballet three, four, five, six. It's three years of the dance credits. Like our program is level seven through 10. And I have changed it from a four-year program to a one to four-year program based on like what we were talking about before. But the four-year program is built right in with the university program. But someone that comes in at level seven, they can actually take those dance credits and they can have all the dance credits be done in three years, which is another amazing thing about this program is because they can finish the dance degrees within those three years and then they can continue their asynchronous classes to finish out that degree from anywhere. Do they work with you so that if it's a busy performance season, like say it's Nutcracker, but that's also often the time where you're having finals and that kind of thing for college programs, do they work with you to sort of make sure that's not super stressful for the dancers? You know, and I think this first year will be very telling. What I will say is that Bellarmine has been very, very accommodating and flexible. They understand that the dancers have a rigorous schedule. And so we'll see kind of how that goes. it will be interesting because I know a lot of the other academic classes, like say they're their math class that they have to take or their foreign language. That will be with all the other students of Bellarmine too. But I'm sure that the professors will be accommodating if the dancer says, hey, we've got like eight performances of Nutcracker this week. Could I submit my paper next Monday instead of this Friday? I'm 95% sure that the professors will say yes, just hand it in Well, even when I was in college, I feel like a lot of the athletes had that kind of relationship where if they had a big game or something, they would be excused from class. Hopefully it can be seen in that same light as an athlete going to a game, a dancer, having their performance. Right. And Bellarmine is a smaller school. The entire school has 3,000 people, which still is a lot, but it's not, you know, it's not a giant school. And so it's more family and nurturing oriented. So they make it work for the students versus like, it has to be this way.
00:27:08
Speaker
um And that's definitely what we have gotten from the professors and the associate provost and everybody. Like they've just been amazingly accommodating. Can you share more about the cohort model and the dual advisor system you have in place? How have you set that up and how do you hope that that structure will impact the dancers experience?
00:27:26
Speaker
Yes, that has been very helpful. Laura Hartford, who is one of the professors of the Fine Arts School, I believe she's the chair of the Fine Arts College at this point. She has been wonderful. She is the academic advisor for all incoming students as of now. And then I am more just the dance advisor. If anything dance related, they need help from, they come to me.
00:27:52
Speaker
Generally, I'm also that liaison person. you know, I'm the one that's in front of them all the time. I'm the one emailing them. So a lot of times they'll come to me with a question and then I spin it off to Laura and say, hey, Laura, We're still kind of in recruiting process. So like say this student needs some help on the financial aid they just got and how that will all work.
00:28:14
Speaker
Who's the best person for her to get in touch with? And then Laura becomes kind of the liaison between all of the other departments within the university. What Laura is fantastic at is say a dancer comes in saying, I want to do this degree program. I've already been doing some online school for a year or two and I have these credits or I have these AP credits from high school. I'm wondering how they can get transferred. Laura is fantastic with that. And so I'll say, Laura, I'm introducing you to this dancer. This is her PDF transcript. Or if they don't have it, Laura will give them step-by-step of exactly what they need to do. And then Laura looks at it, breaks it down, and finds creative ways to even, like, say, take a Pilates class that's not in their curriculum. She finds ways and works with the right people to make sure that a lot of those credits can get transferred. And that's another accommodating thing that they do is that they really want to make this work and they don't want to waste their money and their time. You know, Laura's fantastic at just kind of working out, okay, this is how many credits you actually have coming in. And so you are coming in as a junior. And so this is how we'll work those dance credits out. you know, that kind of thing. So every student is different. Of course, you know, we have the degree track written out for an incoming high schooler who's just graduated coming into the program. That's all very much like streamlined. The degree track each semester, this is what you'll take, then this is what you'll take, this is what you'll take. But what we've discovered is that because dancers are so on top of things, a lot of them already have a lot of these credits. So so it's kind of fantastic being like, wow, you're actually already a junior academically. You can get these dance credits while you're here training. It's really great. Yeah, it really is. They're still getting a BA versus like a BFA, which I think is really helpful for them, a bachelor's of arts. And it really helps them understand that, hey, if I don't get the professional dancing job,
00:30:21
Speaker
I've actually really enjoyed doing more of this admin work and I have an interest in marketing. That's maybe something I can do too. And so I think it just helps their confidence as well. What kind of leadership or career skills do you hope that dancers are going to gain through studying arts administration? I don't know if you hear about this a lot, but I do think it's kind of an issue that we really do have to deal with a little bit is the understanding of what a ballet company actually is.
00:30:48
Speaker
I shake a lot of hands. I go to a lot of donor events and things like that. Generally, the subscribers and the donors that are philanthropists and that love to support the ballet, they understand what a ballet company is and how it works.
00:31:01
Speaker
But when I go to my kids' school, I have a fourth grader in a kindergarten, and you're talking to just someone in the community, they're like, oh, I didn't know we had a ballet company. Or how does a ballet company work? Do you tour all over? i think there's not an understanding that we are a business. The arts admin, when you really break down what the degree is, it's wonderful, and it can be utilized, and they can use the degree for other things than nonprofit. But on the management side, we have...
00:31:29
Speaker
Of course, like the CEO, executive director, we have finance team, we have a development team. So philanthropy and making sure that we're getting the funding. Community engagement is a big aspect of what we do within a ballet company, making sure that we're giving engagement to the community. And then, of course, the school and marketing and production and all the things that happen behind the scenes. It takes the barrier away from I'm a dancer and I do my dancing thing. But then actually within the degree, they have to do six hours of internship.
00:32:03
Speaker
So two internship classes, three credits and three credits. I can't remember the amount of hours. It's not that much, actually. It's like 100 hours within each internship that they have to complete. And if they want to do it at the ballet, they can do it at the ballet. So then they leave the studio and then they you know fulfill these 100 hours within a whole semester working with the ballet and then they can really see, oh, wow, this is quite a business and all these different factors that go with it and all the facets that really make a ballet company successful. And so I think it takes that barrier down regardless if they work for a ballet company or not. And they have that focus in marketing and they do their internship with the marketing team. They're learning marketing skills that they can use and apply anywhere. Whether it's ah a consulting company or, you know, corporation or the ballet, it is all similar because we're all essentially we're selling performances. Right.
00:32:57
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:34:04
Speaker
Obviously, there's so much you learn in the classroom, but so much of my knowledge in this area has come from on-the-job learning, like just being thrown into those situations and getting to see how it actually works. And so having that marriage of being able to say, okay, I learned these skills and I'm going to apply them and I'm going to be in the room at the ballet where things are happening and see how it actually happens and be able to like broaden that scope. And I think, too, as a dancer,
00:34:29
Speaker
I had such a small understanding at the beginning of my career of what else was going on around me. you know You're so internally focused, which you sort of have to be to get there. You have to really be a little bit selfish with your training and with everything you're doing. But at some point, you kind of look around and realize like, wow, there's so much going on. And some of the gripes you have and things that like bother you as a dancer, when you get on the other side of it, you go, oh, I get it. That wasn't personal. That was...
00:34:57
Speaker
Just a lot of people trying to do a lot of things and keep this nonprofit ballet company afloat. And it just gives you that perspective, I think. For sure. Well said. And I think, though, you know, having dancers understand that and also how you can, you know, just make that more of a forefront discussion between dancers, management, community, and all kind of working together to just get more of an understanding that we function just like any other business.
00:35:26
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that is a good point because the more you have to buy in from the whole company to get out in the community and to share what you're doing, that will help also the business grow because it can feel again like you go to the studio, you do your thing, you do your rehearsals, you go home and you don't always talk about it with other people. Your world can get kind of small when you're a company because you're busy and that's what you're doing all the time. Yes. And so if you have that perspective of like, oh, people don't actually know what we do. And I guess I could talk about it and share it a little bit. That is such an amazing part because people love to meet dancers.
00:35:58
Speaker
yeah I mean, everyone I meet is like, that's an incredible career. They're so interested to hear more about it. But they often don't know. They don't know. Yeah, I mean, I've talked to a lot of people, you know, when we were in California, same thing, doctors and lawyers and business people, and they're like, oh, wait, the ballet is a nonprofit?
00:36:16
Speaker
yeah Yes, yes, we are. i think, like you said, we have to get outside of ourselves. Like for me, I have to get outside of my bubble in a way and think a little bit more macro of how best to make sure that we can make ballet survive and things like that too. And people knowing that a ballet company is nonprofit and it depends on donations and philanthropy and all of that, it's important. So I think it just will give our next generation, like I'm so excited that our dancers will come out not only having great experiences with main company performances and dancing alongside their peers, their own colleagues who are elite artists. You know, they might not be getting paid right now, but they are so good. The dancers that are looking for jobs right now, I mean, I'm just like,
00:37:07
Speaker
They're really good. I mean, you know, I'm so excited for our next year's dancers coming in. They're that good that they can go alongside main company dancers and main company productions or, you know, whenever they're able to. a lot of times you can't tell the difference. You know, of course, veteran dancers, things like that. But when I'm talking about just like court of ballet, you know, I think it's just amazing that now we have a program where dancers can come and get good training And they can dance alongside main company dancers in main company productions, but then also obtain a degree by the end of it. We didn't have this in our day. No. I'm just so happy that we're at a point where we're doing this. And there's other, you know, dance companies that are doing similar things. Right.
00:37:53
Speaker
the Fordham and Elvin Ailey program, that one's probably similar to ours. It is a BFA. It has cohorts and it has the degree track. But, you know, I think in these days too, it's just dancers have a little bit more opportunity just because things are more online and asynchronous, you know. So the Boston Ballet Program where they can get the Northeastern degree, that's actually how Anthony got his degree. So he wasn't in Boston, but Northeastern University does a professional studies degree and he got his in business management. So he actually, while he was dancing, just took community college classes.
00:38:29
Speaker
He never got a formal associate's degree, but he had all the credits essentially. Then he looked into this Northeastern degree and it was an expedited 18 month. It had a degree track. You take these classes.
00:38:40
Speaker
They're like six week classes. You have like two days off. You start the next ones, but you'll get your bachelor's degree in 18 months. So they took all of his 60 credits from community college.
00:38:51
Speaker
And then he did all of his classes online. And this is when we were in Cincinnati Ballet. So I had gotten my degree through University of Cincinnati eventually. And then Anthony did the Northeastern degree.
00:39:02
Speaker
And that was one of the first like asynchronous online classes that dancers we're taking but I think what's important about that one is you don't have to necessarily be a Boston ballet dancer to get it they do get ah a substantial discount which Anthony did not get you know there are still programs that are credited that are great opportunities for dancers to also do things asynchronous too I think just the nice part about ours is it's a community they're getting dance credits for that degree too I think the community aspect is really special about ours as well Yeah, I think that is beautiful. I did an asynchronous degree in nonprofit management at the University of Missouri. But yeah, like never stepped foot on campus. I mean, I lived in the town, so I did go like downtown. I never took a class on campus, never met another student in my program. It was what worked for me and what I needed to do. Otherwise, i wouldn't be able to do that while dancing professionally. But...
00:39:55
Speaker
I did miss out on that community. Did you go to your graduation? No. We did go to Anthony's graduation at Northeastern. and That was really cool. But, you know, we walked around campus. We're like, this is where we would have gone. This is where you have your degree. This is your bachelor's degree. So it was really special. But like you said, he did meet people like online through project based things. He was like, oh, yeah, I remember there was a business owner who had a tea company on Newberry Street.
00:40:20
Speaker
You know, things like that. Oh, Jill, like, you know, this person is in my class. That was kind of neat and stuff. That's really smart people, of course. But, you know, my degree, I ended up getting at University of Cincinnati and I got the degree in hand in 2011. And at that time, there was not a single online class.
00:40:40
Speaker
Oh, Wow. So I had transferred all my credit. I ended up having to do independent studies. So the dean of the school was basically like, I will support you through. i was like the teacher's college because my degree is in health education with a focus in community health. And she said, I will support you. write the professors. You can CC me and ask for independent study for environmental health class. I remember this one specifically. And I wrote the professor and said, I have rehearsal during the time that this class is all offered. You know, the the specialty classes where they're offered Tuesday and Thursday, there's one professor yup it's from 12 to 1250. you know, I had to basically explain that I was a professional ballet dancer and that I couldn't make it up the hill to University of Cincinnati.
00:41:25
Speaker
but that I would do whatever they needed me to do to get the credits so that I could get my degree. And so I did seven independent studies. Wow. But they made it work. That's amazing. That's so much on you though. and that's a lot of determination to make that happen. Well, it was a lot, you know, and the more money I was spending, the more was like, I've got to get this done. And the time and commitment, and the time and commitment of the studies and stuff. So that's what I love about this program too, that we're offering is that it, you know, the degree track,
00:41:53
Speaker
To me, like for someone that had to figure out what next class I was taking and rushed to go to the advisor who, you know, I didn't know it was just a random advisor versus like we have this cohort model that they'll always work with the same advisor. And the map is essentially spelled out. And like I said, if they can't do it exactly like that, which is probably going to be more like that than It being that each dancer does exactly what it says on paper, we can easily just do that through emails and conversations.
00:42:26
Speaker
Do you think that the ballet world as a whole is becoming more open to this idea that dancers need support beyond
Evolving Support in Ballet
00:42:31
Speaker
just technical training? I feel like We just talked about that so much with all the different programs popping up. Do you feel like among, you know, just the ballet world in general, other companies, are they looking to you? Are they interested in starting something like this? I hope so. I really do. i will give so much credit to like our school director and Leslie Smart, our CEO, for putting in all the time. It wasn't an easy process. It was lots of conversations and lots of communication to make sure that we made this partnership happen. Like we talked about before, sometimes the reality of what we have to do once season starts, it gets really, really difficult.
00:43:08
Speaker
But I think that if companies do start really prioritizing this, it can absolutely happen. I mean, it was a two-year process for this to get going. But there's also other options to like what San Francisco Ballet does or what Boston does. Start getting, you know, maybe like a partnership for discount intuition, but that they can just take the online degree programs. Yeah, there's a scale of different ways it could be done, right? Yes. I am so excited for all of this. I'm so excited for the dancers who are in your program. I'm very jealous. The last question that I want to ask you before we wrap up today is if you had to give aspiring professional dancers who are pursuing their are dance degree or even their career in dance, one piece of advice, what would you tell them?
00:43:54
Speaker
To keep your head up, to write down your goals and to tackle one little part of it at a time. and to be open to possibilities. I love it.
00:44:08
Speaker
Yeah. Jill, this was so great. If anyone listening wants to learn more about you or about your program, where can we find you? Well, I'm on the Louisville Ballet website. So louisvilleballet.org. We now have under education, a studio company page that breaks down the degree program. We call it two options. So option one is the non-Bellarmin track, and then option two is the Bellarmin track, and then you can explore your path. It's essentially just a PDF because it's so much information, but it has everything on there from everything that the dancer can benefit. It breaks down the degree track.
00:44:48
Speaker
It breaks down tuition costs and financial aid. It is a 68% discount for all the dancers who go full time. And so it kind of breaks down that and it helps guide them to know the process of going through FAFSA to get additional, you know, federal grants. And then there's some state opportunities. And of course, you know, lots of other individual grants that they can also look for. It can be a lot. So it just kind of breaks all of that down. Of course, if anybody has any questions, my email's on the website as well. I do check Instagram a lot and I'm just Jilly Crutes. I don't really check Facebook too much or anything, but I do market a lot of what we do because I'm just so proud of the dancers and I get proud of the company and and all of that. So you can also find me on there. Amazing. Thank you so much, Jill. You're welcome. Thank you for having me, Caitlin.
00:45:42
Speaker
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00:45:55
Speaker
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00:46:08
Speaker
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