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The Archaeology of Moana 2 - Ep 290
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Recently, we went to see the movie Moana 2 with our little nieces and we ended up enjoying it so much more than we expected! But, of course, we had to ask the question, how accurate is the story and characters behind the Moana franchise? In this episode we deep dive the history, archaeology, myths, and Polynesian culture on which these movies are based.
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- Chris Webster
[email protected] - Rachel Roden
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Transcript
Introduction to Moana 2's Historical Focus
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network. You're listening to The Archaeology Show. TAS goes behind the headlines to bring you the real stories about archaeology and the history around us. Welcome to the podcast.
00:00:16
Speaker
Hello and welcome to The Archaeology Show, episode 290. On today's show, we talk about the surprisingly accurate real history behind Moana 2. Let's dig a little deeper before we take a long pause.
00:00:32
Speaker
Welcome to the sick show. Sick show. Hopefully we get all the coughing edited out. We will, we will. It was me last time, now it's you. And you a little bit too. Well, I just have this lingering cough that won't go away. It's just that kind of cold, even though it's been three weeks since my cold ended, but whatever.
Moana as a Gateway to Polynesian History
00:00:52
Speaker
Well, we are, I'm going to make a gross error and miscalculation here, but we're about to go to partial lands of Moana's ancestors. Not really, but not even a little bit. No, no, no, no, not at all. Not at all. I know. Take everything you just said back. I'm kidding. All I'm saying is we're going further south in the Pacific today. Yes, we are. And that is a true statement. And Moana's ancestors came from the South Pacific. Yeah. And that's all I'm saying is we're going closer to that direction because because we're going to Mexico. We are. Do you want to say like why you're talking about Moana right now in case people didn't listen to the last episode? Let's cut that part out because we do have an introduction. Oh, we do? Okay. Okay. Go ahead. Oh yeah. What show is this? So cut all this out. What are we recording right now? Am I on? Am I on one of those shows that doesn't do an intro? I think that's me. Oh man. Okay. I'm going to leave all that in probably. So yeah.
00:01:51
Speaker
OK, cool. So we're talking about Moana.
00:01:56
Speaker
Oh, OK. Yeah. Well, specifically, we're talking about Moana too. But I think we're going to talk about the first one a little bit as well, because. Well, we're going to talk about the first one ah a little bit. We're actually this isn't a movie review for those of you better ready to shut this off. Yeah, it is. ah It is a little bit, but this is a really good reason to talk about Polynesian history because it's surprisingly when I started kind of digging into this and trying to find out because we had to go see Mona too because we have nieces that are four and six and it was required.
00:02:23
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, like going to see that kind of a movie with kids that age is like the most fun in the world because they were so into it.
Cultural Representation and Language in Moana
00:02:32
Speaker
Also going to see that movie by yourself as a 49 year old man is like not appropriate. Well, maybe not by yourself. If you go as a couple, I think you can get away with it. But yeah, going in by yourself would be weird. Yeah, it's actually a really good Disney movie, too. Yeah, it's very well done.
00:02:45
Speaker
I'm not surprised. I loved the first one too. And so the second one was really great as well. And there's some really good history stuff in there. And from what we can tell, like they just did a really good job yeah all around. well Well, we'll get into that. I wanted to see what was true, what was not. And I wanted to dive more into Polynesian culture in history yeah and find out what the long pause is, which they didn't really call it that in the movie, but we'll get into it. They did not call it that, yeah. Anyway, this whole Moana franchise takes place about 2,000 years ago. They also don't mention that. No, they don't. It's a kids movie. They're not really interested in like placing things in time, you know? They just don't really need to bother with that with kids, you know? Right, but with all the like artifacts and clothing and boats and things like that, the idea is this is about 2,000 years ago. Yeah.
00:03:33
Speaker
And Mona 2 is another thing I thought was interesting because Mona 1 didn't do this, but Mona 2 was the first Disney movie released at the same time, not like later on they translated or anything like that, but at the same time this was released in Maori. It was released in an indigenous language. Now a lot of times they'll release them in other languages like Spanish or something like that, but not an indigenous language. Well, in a language that is clearly super important to the people that are featured in this movie. Right. So the fact that they want that extra step to release it in that language as well is is really cool. And it just that little detail shows you that the creators were really interested in like respecting the Polynesian cultures that inspired these movies. So I love that.
00:04:18
Speaker
and And much like a number of movies that ah deal with, I would say, indigenous cultures or or something like along those lines, they don't really represent one culture, especially when you're going back 2,000 years. It's difficult to do that. So this represents a mix of Polynesian cultures and themes and mythologies. And you know after watching this movie and and in in the process of creating these movies, too, multiple Polynesian cultures have praised these movies for their accuracy and inspiration.
00:04:47
Speaker
I think that was the right move, don't you? like Because if they had picked one culture and tried to say, okay, this movie takes place in Hawaii, it is the Hawaiian people, like all of a sudden you're restricted by the actual like boundaries of that culture, right? But by bringing in this mix and just making sure to respect all of the different ones that are brought into it, it like broadens the world so that they could kind of do what they want. And like, let's be clear here, this is a fictional movie, right? Obviously it's fiction, like all kinds of crazy things happen with deic demigods and stuff like that. And the first one as well. So like this is fiction.
Blending Fiction with Polynesian Cultures
00:05:24
Speaker
but it's bringing to life like some of the legends and the stories and being able to like mix them together and not call it one specific culture, I think was like really just the right movies. It's so good.
00:05:36
Speaker
Yeah, so because of that, Moana's island of Mata Nui doesn't exist. right That's not a ah word that exists. It's not an island that exists. But that island and her people are a mix of various nations in the Pacific. Yeah, it's perfect. I love it. Yeah, which is the whole setting for the movies. Which, to be honest, I kind of thought they were just with all the leis and the coconuts and stuff. I thought they were just kind of going for old Hawaii.
00:05:57
Speaker
Well, but is that just like the American perspective, though? Because when you think of those kind of cultures like Hawaii is the first place your brain goes because it's, you know, a state in our country and we've been there, you know, but like the Polynesian culture influenced so many islands in the Pacific, not just Hawaii, you know, there as we'll get into, there's many, many more of them. so Yeah. Well, and Hawaii is part of this whole story. Yeah, it's just not the story. No, it's also one of the ones that influences the overall story. Yeah.
00:06:27
Speaker
So it's definitely set in the Pacific ocean though, obviously, and the islands of the South Pacific. This is the whole, that's uncontested. That's definitely where this is. But all the island names that they use are fictitious. They didn't want to get into anything. You just start offending people when you do something that is not true to their island. So that, again, great move, I think. Right. Especially for a kids movie. This is not a historical representation of anything. This is a fictional kids movie.
00:06:52
Speaker
As we mentioned, the movie takes place 2000 years ago during a real period in Polynesian history known as the Long
The 'Long Pause' and Its Connection to Moana
00:06:59
Speaker
Paws. That's the new piece of information to us, I think. And that's what made us like excited to do a TAS episode about the kids movie.
00:07:08
Speaker
Yeah, Western Polynesia was colonized over 3,000 years ago with people using boats and they just start to navigate yeah and and do stuff. and And Western Polynesia, by the way, does not include Hawaii. No, no. That's like Tonga and all those other places over the other side. Samoa. Fiji. Yeah. Yeah. That's all Western Polynesia. Right.
00:07:28
Speaker
So they use their wayfinding techniques, which are referenced in the movies using stars and things like that. And yeah, like Moana like holds her hand up at some point yeah to like measure the distance between stars or whatever. and And that sounds like it's kind of a traditional technique for how how they would have navigated around the seas.
00:07:46
Speaker
so Very cool. The islands of Central and Eastern Polynesia, including Bora Bora, Easter Island, Tahiti and Hawaii, were not colonized until 2000 years later, which is a whole thousand years difference from when the Western Polynesian islands were populated. And that is the long pause. Yes. Yes. And the end of the long pause is where the movies take place. Right.
00:08:10
Speaker
yeah and And it makes sense, right? Because in the first Moana movie, it's Moana all about leaving her island. yeah She wants to get out, she wants to explore, she wants to know what is beyond the reef, right?
00:08:22
Speaker
I feel like I know too much about this kids' movie right now, but whatever. I really, really love kids' movies. Well, we mostly watched the first one. We got interrupted by a four-year-old. yeah Yeah, we watched ah up most of it, but I had seen it before, too. Yeah, but right before this, though. Yeah, but it makes sense. So like there's this progression. this So this is a little bit of a movie review, but these two movies are so great because it's like this progression. like In the first one, Moana just wants to leave her island and see what's beyond it. And then she goes out and she gets into the shenanigans with Maui, who which we'll get into in a little bit.
00:08:51
Speaker
Then in the second movie, it's it becomes a bigger story. It grows. It's not just going out and getting out beyond the reef. She's done that. Now it's about, are there people out there? Are there other islands? Are there other things to see? And that's what the story is built around, which is really cool.
00:09:07
Speaker
Yeah. And the movies create supernatural reasons for the long pause, yeah which obviously aren't real. Right. But they have dark forces making the seas too dangerous to navigate and things like that. Yeah. There's there's all kinds of reasons of Polynesian history from a long pause, too. They're just like, you know, why did they did this? Legend to stories. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get into why historians, archaeologists and even Polynesian historians think the long pause happened a little bit later. But we'll talk about that on the other side of the break. Back in a minute.
Ensuring Cultural Accuracy with the Oceanic Trust
00:09:35
Speaker
Welcome back to Episode 290 of the Disney Channel Review Show. more
00:09:44
Speaker
I'm sorry. It was a good movie. I really, really loved it. I don't know if we're going to talk that much about exactly what happened in it, but I did truly love it. You should go see it. Yeah. I mean, go watch the movie, but yeah. So the cool thing is that Disney, instead of just barreling in and offending everyone. but um They formed what was what they called the Oceanic Trust. Love it. Yes. And that featured multiple scholars and cultural advisors to ensure that Polynesian inspirations were both respectful and historically accurate. Yeah. So before they even like in the writing process, I think they had like a basic script from what I could glean from the sources I was reading. Yes. And then they had the script reviewed and dramatically altered based on what was going on in there. We'll find out some cool things that they changed.
00:10:27
Speaker
Yeah, but like some of the details that they were ah probably advised by this trust to do were things like the thatched roofs of the houses over the pits that they used to cook food. right like That's a very specific detail that is accurate to either the cultures today or the cultures in the past or a combination of the two, yeah so that's really great.
00:10:48
Speaker
And then then they also had influence of course like of course they had to in their clothing and the ceremony. Yeah, like that's one of the most important things and you're going to see little girls running around in Milana costumes and she does get a new costume in this movie which they make a really funny joke about in the movie to be.
00:11:02
Speaker
where Maui is like, oh, I didn't know we were getting an upgrade. Do you remember when he said that? And it was so funny. Anyway, but there is a new costume for Moana in this movie. And they clearly just had all the input from um people to make sure they got that right. Another small joke that they ah that they made in the movie that I thought was funny because Moana's kind of lumped in with all the Disney princesses. And Maui says something like, hey, princess, blah, blah, blah. She's like, still not a princess. She's like, well, a lot of people think you are. yeah be the joke of the movie. yeah Like I died at that and it was clearly there for the adults. Yeah. But the kids are going to laugh at it too because it's funny. So the smaller kids are going to be like, wait, she's not a princess. Well, maybe they'll learn that she's not a princess, but she's still freaking badass. So like, yeah.
Moana's Role as a Leader and Navigator
00:11:50
Speaker
And you know the the big historical you know archaeological reason for that is well they didn't really have a princess concept exactly right yeah like she was leading the tribe at that point yeah but she was she basically inherited that from her father but they didn't call it like princess she was not even leading the tribe really she was like a wayfarer right like she that she was a navigator she was yeah she became that during this movie well yeah but
00:12:12
Speaker
But anyway, yeah, I mean, she was one of the people in the yeah in the community, there's like an elder. Yeah. Well, she was even an elder, not an elder, but like an an elder. She's meant to be something later. Yeah. leader yeah The Oceanic Trust also advised them on how they handled coconuts and Samoan inspired tattoos and things like that. Like how they actually held the coconuts, like how they just how they in to begin with. OK, how they OK. Because coconuts are a huge part of their society. there did You can do so much stuff with coconuts. Yeah. OK, cool. um I mean, if you've ever seen Gilligan's Island.
00:12:42
Speaker
You would know that coconuts you can you can make a radio out of coconuts. You know, I like all kinds of things. I usually see your references coming from a mile away. But like I definitely did not know Gilligan's Island was going to be. but I think the Oceanic Trust had influences over Gilligan's. I get to like listen, guys. Yeah, no, I know so many things you can do with coconut. I don't think they did. Just because you're marooned on this island doesn't mean you can't, you know. Anyway, moving on from that.
00:13:08
Speaker
They, uh, they advise on other changes as well. And one of those was that in the movie, originally Maui was supposed to be bald, but they were like, there's no way this like demigod guy would be bald. The source of a demigod's power is his hair. In in in real mythology. In real Polynesian mythology. Yeah. And Maui was a real demigod in Polynesian mythology. Right. He's going to have long hair. Yeah. He can't be bald. I think they wanted him to be bald to hat because they knew the rock was playing him. Yeah. They tried to make characters similar-ish to the people who are voicing them. right you know so you see Because you know who's the voice is. Because he has such a recognizable voice. yeah you know it's like It's like why Zazu in Lion King looks a little bit like John
00:13:49
Speaker
Yeah, I remember watching a whole documentary on that. They they they sort of do it on purpose, right but they almost don't do it on purpose too because the person that's doing the voice like starts influencing the way the characters are drawn to some extent too. So like, yeah, which is really cool and just like a really cool creative process. But yeah in this case, it was a really good move for them to make sure that he had hair because that would that's true to the actual Polynesian
Technological Progress in Polynesian Seafaring
00:14:12
Speaker
gods. So yeah.
00:14:13
Speaker
But I have to say they didn't, his hair didn't seem that long though. They gave him like almost like shorter, like wiry curly hair. It's super curly, but like a little longer than shoulder length maybe, but yeah. The Fijian style boats were also from ancient history of the South Pacific. That was pretty cool. There's a lot of stuff in this actually. Lots. Yeah. If you look at this, it's actually and I'm going to say this now and it's probably it might be in our notes later. I just can't remember. But the boats are huge because in the before the long pause, the boats were like these
00:14:45
Speaker
Canoes basically was smaller connected. There were two two canoes connected by a line of like wood in the middle. Right. Right. With a sale. Yeah. But they were they were not really for like they would go long distances on these things, but they weren't like.
00:14:58
Speaker
like super long, like 10 day pass. Yeah. of They weren't like, they would do that kind of stuff, but they were yeah made for that kind of thing. And then after the long pause, you see these like dramatically bigger boats and they show that between the first Moana movie and the second Moana movie. They do. You see, and it's not like they say a thousand years has passed or anything, but you see the big difference in boat technology in the second Moana movie. And that's why they bring in this like boat engineer to the second Moana movie. Yeah. Then the actual character. yeah Yeah. And she is like a tinkerer or a, I don't know, an inventor, yeah right? She's just constantly trying to invent things and like, you know, there's some of the things that she invents that maybe are like not historically accurate, like tight sailing, but yeah. Yeah.
00:15:40
Speaker
But you know what? It's a kids movie. So like, let's give them the space to go crazy like that. Because as movie directors love to say, and I think that the gladiator guy said this, too, is, well, we don't have any evidence that they didn't do this. So I didn't see anything about the whole kite sailing thing, which is yeah the end of the movie. But it is. I mean, who knows, you know, I mean, I think.
00:16:03
Speaker
Probably they didn't do it, but we can- You've got ropes, you break a mast and your sail's still good. and Why not just get it in the air? See, I mean, it is possible. So some more info on Maui. Like I said, he was a real demigod in Polynesian mythology and is credited with actually creating the Hawaiian islands and he pulled them up with his fish hook. I love, love, love that mythology, that story. is so that's That's so fun. I love it.
00:16:26
Speaker
He said it was stolen fire from the underworld and given it to the people, captured the sun to make days longer. If you've heard the song, yeah you're welcome. It's all the things. like That's the song of Maui. The real demigod, the real mythology mythological demigod. Hey, can we like digress for just a second and talk about the songs?
00:16:43
Speaker
One thing i'll say my one criticism of this movie is i don't think the songs are as good as the first movie and and that i think is in part because lindman while marandone of hamilton. First moana in the heights and canto all of those movies he did that music for.
00:17:00
Speaker
But he did not do the music for this one, and I think it does show. He didn't? I thought he did. No, he didn't do the music. He's doing the music for Lion King 2, or no, the Lion King... It's Lion King 2. It's prequel. Yeah. And he didn't have time to do both movies, is what people are saying. But anyway... Was that Lion King Zero? It's called Mufasa. So apart from In the Heights, Hamilton, Moana, what else has Lin-Mauranda given us? In canto? In canto.
00:17:29
Speaker
and No, um he did do the music and I don't know it just they just didn't have the same punch that the first songs did Yeah, so those those songs are just iconic. You're welcome Into the unknown I think is the other big one ever wanted. So anyway, it's okay. The songs are so great.
Incorporating Polynesian Myths in Moana
00:17:44
Speaker
They're just not as good one criticism Well, some more Polynesian mythology in history, which I love this because yeah these are the only real names they used in the in the show were the demigods. The demigods yeah yeah and the gods yeah but goddess Tepiti had the power to create life, which she used to create the islands of Polynesia and her darker half, Teka,
00:18:05
Speaker
ah love a lava monster who emerged when Maui stole her heart. yeah And this heart was called the Honamu stone and that was in the ah the first in the first movie. yeah yeah The stealing of the stone resulted in a blight starting to threaten islands like Mata Nui, the fictional island of Mata Nui. But all that was part of real Polynesian mythology.
00:18:23
Speaker
Yeah, I love I love that they brought that real story in. Isn't Polynesian mythology just so like vibrant and interesting? too like the The stories are just so I just I love hearing them and I love seeing them on screen like this. So in Moana to her island nation of Mata Nui, they are not alone in the vast expanse of the ocean.
00:18:42
Speaker
Yeah. And I think they kind of know that they're not alone or at least Moana thinks that they're not alone because the very one of the opening scenes is her exploring out beyond the reef. And she goes to an island and she's poking around on the island just looking for evidence of anything. And they find ah a ceramic vessel. Yes. And that to her says other people. Yeah. Because she knows it's not from her culture. It's from somebody else. And so she's like, OK, other people, we got to figure out where these other people and we've got to find them.
00:19:12
Speaker
Well, and she happens to find one with like an island symbol on it and stars over it that tells her where to go. OK, look again, so fictional kids movie. We have to like let them have that. It's OK. So that island is called Motufetu. Yeah. And apparently all the people were separated millennia ago due to Nalo's sinking of Motufetu and his channels. Yeah. Along with Maui's theft of Tefiti's heart, which made the oceans too dangerous to travel. So when they sunk the island that connected everybody. Yeah. and made the ocean too dangerous yeah to travel. It basically separated everybody. Yeah. Yeah. So at the end of Moana 2, so this is like a bit of a spoiler if you're haven't seen it or won't say it, but the meeting of different wayfinders from other villagers, it implies that the long pause has come to an end and now the ocean is safer to travel because at the very end when they bring Motofetu up from the ocean, they reconnected all of the people in all of the islands.
00:20:09
Speaker
So just a little more, we're going to talk about the long pause in segment three here, but just a
Language and Dance as Cultural Reflections
00:20:13
Speaker
little bit more here. The movies are mostly spoken in English, but they use some Polynesian languages spoken some of the time and you can hear that. They just like, you know, it's like I think it's kind of funny the way they do it. It's like when you have a.
00:20:25
Speaker
a speaker who is speaking English, but their native language is something else. And when they go to like get really mad or they yeah something they just devolve into the, they do, yeah they come down into their native language. You hear that a lot in this actually. Yeah, you do. It's so good. Yeah. In the first Moana movie, the song We Know the Way features Samoan, Tuvalauan and Tuvalauan words.
00:20:47
Speaker
Yep. Maui and Moana both perform hakas in both Moana movies and that's a traditional Maori dance. yeah Yeah. So it's great. They've got the language, they got the dance, they got the mythology. They really did a great job with these movies. Again, really can't recommend them more. They're super fun. All right. So on the other side, we'll talk a little bit more about the long pause and what that is because it's pretty cool point in history and how they kind of, how we think they may have overcome it. So back in a minute.
Polynesian Exploration and the Lapita People
00:21:12
Speaker
Welcome back to the archaeology show. So 290. And now we're going to talk about the long pause. So before we get to the long pause, about 3,500 years ago, a group of people that we now know as the Lapita left the Bismarck Islands and entered the ocean.
00:21:29
Speaker
And the Bismarck Islands are kind of over towards New Zealand. right yeah yeah they're They're over in that area. Interestingly enough, I just read an article yesterday about, what are they calling it? ah Z landia, I think. But they think they've mapped what they're calling the eighth continent of the world. And when the Gondwana land broke up, it was which was, I think, pre-Pangaea even, I can't remember what the sequence like of events is here, but basically,
00:21:59
Speaker
The kind of surprise that Antarctica and Australia didn't just sink into the ocean because this eighth continent did and it's it's it's this huge land mass that's in the South Pacific and the only thing that's sticking above the water that's part of that land mass is New Zealand.
00:22:14
Speaker
Oh, and it it's part of and they've mapped almost the entire thing. It's a gigantic continent sitting underneath the South Pacific Ocean. Where the hell is Maui with his fish hook? I tell you, get a move on, bro. ah Yeah, it's it's just it's crazy. And I kind of wonder, I mean, they've mapped almost the whole thing and they didn't mention any of the other islands in the South Pacific. I think those are all still like volcanically created. OK, yeah, I don't think they're part of this whole Zealandia thing. They're calling it. It's interesting that Zealand yet. Yeah. That's the best thing ever. I know. They're saying this thing sunk or was submerged. I think it actually did sunk because of seduction plates and things like that. It did sunk did sink, whatever, but because of ah about 80 million years ago or something like that. Okay. Yeah, that's cool. But somehow New Zealand, maybe that was just like a super tall mountain because New Zealand is really mountainous. Yes.
00:23:01
Speaker
and Yeah. Hello, Lord of the Rings. I know. Can you imagine how tall those would have been when that continent was not like... Oh my God. Crazy. Like, yeah. It's insane. Anyway, so these people left about... Well, after that happened 3500 years ago. right Within 500 years, they developed the technology to just go island hopping through Melanesia and into the into Western Polysia.
00:23:21
Speaker
ah huh And they eventually reached and settled Fiji, Samoa and Tonga. Yeah. After this period of rapid exploration and rapid in historical times is 500 years. Well, sure. Yeah. um Something changed and it would be another thousand years before people went further east to Hawaii. Rapa Nui, which is the indigenous name for Easter Island and Eotera.
00:23:42
Speaker
Yeah, and the question is, and still remains, why was there such a long pause between these two migrations?
Factors Behind the 'Long Pause' in Exploration
00:23:50
Speaker
Analysis and carbon dating on artifacts found throughout the Pacific Islands have created a timeline of human migration.
00:23:56
Speaker
Yep. Western Polynesia was settled by about 800 BC ah and and computer models of wind direction and ocean currents suggest these changed enough to possibly be a reason for the gap. um So there's, there's, that's one thing. Yeah. So they're overcoming a changing ocean, basically. Yeah. It was just, it was, it was, well, they couldn't overcome it basically for a thousand years. They needed to learn how to overcome it and it took a long time. yeah Yeah. It wasn't favorable for them to sail in that direction.
00:24:22
Speaker
which kind of corresponds to the Polynesian myth of like the angry ocean because it would seem angry to them when they couldn't get past whatever whatever direction they were trying to go. It actually fits the Moana one theory too and cast away and every other thing about any any small island in the South Pacific where They always talk about getting past the reef. Yeah. Because there's always some kind of a reef out there. Yeah. And that's where the water breaks. And it's nice and calm on the inside. And then you have these huge ass waves that you got to get over. Yeah. And if you don't have the technology to get over that, and then once you get over that, you're just in the ocean. And if you don't have the boats to be able to handle, you know, six to nine foot swells on a regular day right and then angry swells on a bad day, yeah you're going to die.
00:25:06
Speaker
It's not even just the boats too, it's the skills. You have to have the skill to get over that too. So like you're kind of developing these two things but at the same time to make that happen. On a side note, if if anybody ever watches any of like the sailboat YouTubers, you can see them handling this. like There's one that we like a lot called The Winds. We might've talked about them on here before, but they've been to Tonga and I think Fiji too. A lot of the drama in their YouTube episodes is about getting in and out of the reefs and doing stuff like that. yeah yeah So another reason for the long pause is that some some researchers think that the seafaring technology just took too long to change. yeah And that's kind of what we were just talking about. Like they just took them too long to get the bigger boats that they would have needed to navigate this changing ocean. And yeah, it just took time to develop all that.
00:25:55
Speaker
Yeah, so as I mentioned earlier, the first sort of things that they use, the boats that they used were called outrigger canoes. The waka ama, those were used for the earlier expeditions, the pre-long pause expeditions.
Theories on Polynesian Exploration Drivers
00:26:06
Speaker
Yes. And then the waka aurora, the double hold canoe, came later and could travel longer distances over rougher oceans and could also carry heavier loads. And I saw pictures associated with some of the articles that we've got linked here.
00:26:18
Speaker
that really were inspiring the the movie the movie. Yeah. And some of the, you could see the older canoes when Moana goes into the the cave to see the, the past way finders, right? Pretty long pause. Cause she's at the end of the long pause and doesn't know it. Yeah. So she's looking pretty long pause at her ancestors of these old wayfarers. And I think they even say these were a thousand years ago. I think they might've even, that was the first movie, right?
00:26:43
Speaker
No, I think this was in the second. Oh, was that in the first movie? That was in the first movie, right? Yeah, when she's trying to go be beyond the reef. Yeah, totally. yeah times that cave Yeah. So there's those ah boats and they were the older style, the older style boats. And then later on you do see, you know, images of the bigger boats and the and and and you see this in Polynesian history too. Yeah, I mean, they've got their their like genius boat builder character who is and the one that's creating these boats for them. But when all of the ships come together at the end of the movie, because they, you know, they've been released by pulling that island up, they they're all different boats, but they're all big and they all have.
00:27:21
Speaker
like that double canoe or double hull thing going on. So i I feel like, again, the movie put a lot of time and effort into researching the different boat styles from different islands all across the Pacific and then representing those different boats as they were landing on the shore and all these these people were integrating, which is just another really cool scene. Of course it didn't happen like that in real life. Of course it didn't. not a so A representative of every single island didn't roll up on this one island together yeah in history. That couldn't have happened. but seeing it is just really cool in the movie. And it's another like fun fictional take that we really enjoyed. Yeah. yeah So I had another thought too, and they, this isn't in your notes or anything, but do you think that the long pause could have just been the result of like not needing to grow or develop? Cause you know, getting comfortable. Yeah. Like need drives technology, right? And if these groups were happy with their current situation, they had enough food, they had enough resources, like maybe they just.
00:28:21
Speaker
Just it didn't drive technology as quickly as it could have if they did need, you know, it's it's possible. I feel like technology and exploration are driven by two things. I feel like first off, they're driven. They're always driven by hardship. Yes. Right. People like your population is either growing too much or you've You've run out to resources on whatever island you live on and you just need to move somewhere else, right? That's going to either drive. You're going to die like Easter Island um or you're going to move, right? Something's going to happen. Or you just got people out there that are just curious, really curious like Moana. Moana, that's why she becomes this wayfinder. they They kind of explore both situations because in Moana, too, they do talk about how
00:29:06
Speaker
their growing population and they need to find other islands. she's She's actively trying to search for other islands to find other people, to you know to move their people to other islands where people are and things like that. And to me she specifically mentions that in the beginning. And then also, you know she's just naturally inquisitive. right She wants to be an explorer. She's an explorer, yeah, totally. And and when when our own when when Western seafaring technology and even Asian seafaring technology started to become more advanced and they got bigger ships and and to take 100, 200 people and across the ocean, I mean, it just opened the world up because people were naturally explorers. yeah you know You always have that one person or 15 people that want to go out and you know find stuff.
00:29:49
Speaker
But exploring is dangerous, right? So like yeah to be an explorer, you're inherently taking risk and you have to be in a group or a population who supports you taking that risk too, you know? So yeah, I don't know. I guess I could, the complacency of of a good life, I could see that sort of tampering that exploration spirit too, yeah you know?
00:30:14
Speaker
I don't know, it's cool though. It's a period in prehistoric history that I think you and I just didn't know a whole lot
Moana as a Historical Insight
00:30:21
Speaker
about. And I love learning about that and from a kids movie. Who'd have thought?
00:30:26
Speaker
I never thought Disney would inspire me to do anything. I know, right? Yeah. it's ah It's pretty cool. Yeah. Well, I love a pop culture review. So hopefully nobody's mad that we spent time on a kid's movie and feel like they got something out of it. Disney does own ancient history now because they've established that with but with Moana. They bought the Star Wars franchise, which is ancient history. Don't they have the history channel, too? So like ancient aliens. The fact that I called Star Wars ancient history. Oh, yeah, I'm OK with that. That's fine.
00:30:57
Speaker
I was expecting a lot more than that. Anyway. Well, I mean, like you are who you are. Yeah. Long ago. Far, far away. Oh, God.
Episode Conclusion and Future Plans
00:31:06
Speaker
OK. Yeah. All right. Well, that's about that, I think. Yeah. All right. Well, hopefully. Oh, so speaking of long pause. Oh, my God. It's so perfect. Didn't even do this on purpose. Yeah. So and we we decided.
00:31:23
Speaker
on one of our APN business meetings, you know, people just kind of need a break sometimes during the holidays. And we offered to a lot of our hosts the ability to basically kind of take a pause over between like December 15th and January 15th on the recordings. We're going to be running some encore episodes through some of our some of our hosts took us up on that and some did not. They're going to be running new episodes. Right. So some shows are going to be having new episodes. Some shows won't. I'm not really sure we may do We might have a combination because we have some more review shows we want to do. So this is a good moment to tell people that we're going to review the second season of Graham Hancock show. I've blocked it out of my mind. It's so ancient apocalypse. So.
00:32:08
Speaker
We will rerun the first episode that we did for the first season sometime during this break. And if you're interested in following along with us, then watch that second season if you haven't yet and then we'll talk about it. That's a good idea. We'll run that as ah an encore episode in the next episode. We'll play our. Yeah. you So I'm not sure exactly. But you'll see the episode titles and see when it's coming. So that's definitely one of them. And then, you know, we'll see if we maybe we should.
00:32:32
Speaker
Maybe we should watch, because we're actually going on a cruise today with a whole bunch of our friends. Yeah. And maybe we should watch some episodes of Ancient Apocalypse with some non-archaeologists and see what they think about it and get their reactions and talk about it. Yeah, we could. We could. We definitely could. That would be fun. I'm interested. All right. Well, with that, just want to let you guys know if we, oh, if we don't see you again, have a great holiday season, whatever you do as, whatever you celebrate, and we will talk to you again in the new year. Yes. Yep. We sure will. Otherwise. Yeah. All right. See you then. Bye. Thanks for listening to The Archaeology Show. Feel free to comment and view the show notes on the website at www.arcpodnet.com. Find us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter at Arc Podnet. Music for this show is called I Wish You Would Look From the Band's Sea Hero. Again, thanks for listening and have an awesome day.
00:33:35
Speaker
The Archaeology Podcast Network is 10 years old this year. Our executive producer is Ashley Airy, our social media coordinator is Matilda Seabreck, and our chief editor is Rachel Rodin. The Archaeology Podcast Network was co-founded by Chris Webster and Tristan Boyle in 2014 and is part of CulturoMedia and DigTech LLC. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chrisatarchaeologypodcastnetwork.com.