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Ep 50: How Blockchain Is Expanding Access to Healthcare - the Case of Letsbuyhealthcare
84 Plays25 days ago
Discover Letsbuyhealthcare — a platform using Avalanche blockchain to let people prepay for private healthcare with tokenized credits in Ireland. Its founder, Dave Allen, breaks down how it works, why it matters, and what blockchain still needs to continue scaling.
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Transcript
Introduction to Owl Explains Hootenanny
00:00:06
Speaker
Hello and welcome to this Owl Explains Hootenanny, our podcast series where you can wise up on blockchain and Web3 as we talk to the people seeking to build a better internet.
00:00:17
Speaker
Owl Explains is powered by Avalabs, a blockchain software company and participant in the Avalanche ecosystem. My name is Silvia Sanchez, project manager of Owl Explains, and with that, I'll hand it over to today's amazing speakers.
Guest Introduction: David Allen and LetsBuyHealthcare
00:00:34
Speaker
Hi everybody, my guest today is David Allen, founder of LetsBuyHealthcare.com, a platform that's been around since 2017 and recently made the leap onto the Avalanche blockchain.
00:00:47
Speaker
At its core, it's a way to prepare to prepay for healthcare services using tokenized value. So you can think of it like a gift card for your health that lives on chain.
00:00:57
Speaker
So in this episode, we're doing what we always do. pulling things apart, explaining it, and sharing these really cool use cases in the Web3 ecosystem. We're going to talk about where this started, what's working right now, and where it might go.
The Evolution of Healthcare in Web3
00:01:12
Speaker
That is, if regulators, tech, and the healthcare care system all play ball. We'll discuss where things are headed and what Web3 still needs to work at scale. So, hi Dave, great to have you with us today.
00:01:24
Speaker
good Good afternoon, Sylvia. Thanks for having me on. It's a pleasure and an honour to be invited onto Owl Explains.
David's Personal Motivation and Background
00:01:31
Speaker
Amazing. Oh, yeah. we We love featuring these these projects. And i think this episode in particular really is basically targeted to anyone who's ever asked, can crypto actually help people? And spoiler alert, I think that David has got a pretty strong case.
00:01:49
Speaker
So, David, what was the spark behind Let's Buy Healthcare? care And what gap in the healthcare care system were you trying to fill? Yeah, I suppose, going back to the start, my my my background is in private health insurance and in private health pricing.
00:02:08
Speaker
At one stage, I effectively was a ah buyer, if you like, on behalf of the the health services. So I used to buy large amounts of operations, hips, knees, cataracts, common procedures in bulk.
00:02:22
Speaker
and and And along the way, what happened was my mother got sick and And
Early Development and Blockchain Integration
00:02:27
Speaker
she needed ah an operation and procedure and she didn't have private health insurance but wanted it done quickly and had some ah some some money to to pay for the operation.
00:02:38
Speaker
So I volunteered to help. And it was during that that that that experience that that I noticed it was it was was very um it was very difficult, a very cumbersome.
00:02:49
Speaker
I couldn't get information. It wasn't very user friendly. it It really wasn't it wasn't in the internet world, if you like. So there was no sort of Amazon for private healthcare that you could get a series of prices for a particular operation and very, very un-user friendly.
00:03:07
Speaker
So that that that that that experience really was to sort of the genesis, the start of Let's Buy Healthcare. And apart from access, trying to improve access for people, we we also recognised that a lot of people can't afford private health insurance.
00:03:22
Speaker
So we developed this product, a tokenized product. Healthcare coins is is is how we position it. And you can build up your tokens, buy your tokens, and build up your own healthcare fund.
00:03:37
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the and And the agreement, really, the deal is that you can only use your tokens for private healthcare. So that's a quick a quick synopsis of um where where we've come from. But, yeah, still building and still developing.
00:03:52
Speaker
Of course. Yeah. So in another words, I think it's safe to say that you were the use case. You had a need. Your mother had a need. And i think a lot of people can relate to that, especially in some countries where health insurance and health care maybe is not so accessible. And I think that's something huge. So I love that basically this need sparked this project And wanted to ask you, how did the platform evolve in the early
Global Platform Architecture and Regulatory Challenges
00:04:18
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days before you moved on-chain?
00:04:20
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What were some of the pivotal lessons you learned in the process? Yeah, we went down a few cul-de-sacs, and I think that's not uncommon for startups. We tried a different few different business models.
00:04:33
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um But ah yeah, I suppose what happened along the way was that we we asked we commissioned a a university in Ireland, um the Walton Institute. theyre They are a communications and science and technology institute, quite well known here. and We asked them to look at what we were trying to do and it was them basically who'd done some research and they recommended the whole Web3 world and and and suggested that that the distributed ledger technology in particular would would be a nice fit for what we were trying to do.
00:05:12
Speaker
um Particularly from not not only the security the security position but but the the as an emerging technology just it seemed to to fit very nicely with with the the healthcare coins product and the ah the the improving access generally for for people to to to access private healthcare.
00:05:33
Speaker
That's great. So you mentioned the healthcare coins. So for somebody totally new or maybe for somebody who didn't quite grasp the concept, how do these healthcare coins work in real life today? Like what's the experience like for somebody who's using the platform to buy private healthcare or insurance? Could you walk us through what that might look like?
00:05:53
Speaker
Yeah, that's really important because actually you don't need to book the treatment or your procedure or whatever. me You don't need to use our website to to to book the procedure.
00:06:04
Speaker
you can use You can use your healthcare tokens on ah on any accredited medical professional. um So basically the way it works is you log into your account and you suggest you say, I want to pay...
00:06:19
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x, y and is a doctor or
User Experience and Adoption Challenges
00:06:21
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medic or clinic a certain amount of money and we then process the the payment on on your behalf and directly to the medic involved.
00:06:31
Speaker
the the um The only condition really is that it has to be for healthcare. care that's the take of it Think of it like it's just, it's fiat, sort of fiat currency but a much more narrower, we you can't use your your savings or your tokens for any other purpose other than for healthcare.
00:06:50
Speaker
okay Okay, got it. That's a great explanation. And surprised you the most about user behavior or adoption since you went on chain, since you migrated onto onto the blockchain? wepentt We spent and enormous amounts of time and money and development trying to make things simple and trying to ah to to make it so simple for people um ah in the in the the user experience and explaining the product.
00:07:18
Speaker
and it's funny having done that um people are saying like it can't be that simple it's not yeah it's it's it's the sort of questioning the simplicity of it is is is unusual it is it's a very simple product a very simple idea and it's a very simple process and i think things these days tend to be over complicated generally and people are used to that and we're trying to simplify that down I suppose it's the reaction to the to the simplicity has has sort of amused us to some extent ah yeah it's a very simple product
00:07:57
Speaker
That's great. And I think sometimes less is more. If you make it simple, people understand it then that's effective without so many things. Yeah, but the people have said, like, can I use it for opticians? can i use i can't use it for dentists, surely. Can I?
00:08:11
Speaker
yeah Yeah, absolutely. Because I think one of the things... and Sylvia, is the is that particularly in private healthcare, people are used to the health insurance approach to to things. and And that's quite, in some cases, quite restrictive and tens tends to be, although this is not ah always the case, but tends to be hospital-based.
00:08:31
Speaker
hospital based Whereas our our definition of healthcare is quite broad and and includes physiotherapy, dentistry, optician, routine dentistry, your GP fees, your normal doctor fees.
00:08:43
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it's it's it's It's trying to encourage people to prepare for their own private healthcare in their own way that suits their own pocket. ah and and then have some some some resource there at some point that's dedicated only to their family healthcare when the time comes.
00:09:02
Speaker
So people say to me, well, I could do that myself. I could put money away and... and and I was talking to a nurse the other day actually and she said that she had put money away for private healthcare but what happened then was one of her children ah and needed um needed to Holy Communion came up and she had she raided basically raided her healthcare fund to pay for the dress and then once that was once they had broken the ice with that then the the money was used eventually for holidays.
00:09:35
Speaker
so
Backend Integration and Strategic Thinking
00:09:36
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the what we're What we're doing is saying, look, we're we're an independent third party. we we we we you You can't use these tokens for any other purpose. That type of and scenario counter ah can't happen. So, yeah, that's that's ah that's the approach.
00:09:55
Speaker
So a more holistic approach. And you also mentioned that you include things like dentistry. So you're breaking away from the health insurance model and focusing more on the healthcare care and making it more about people's needs.
00:10:08
Speaker
I think that's that's great. And basically, we're speaking about the interface. You mentioned that it was simple, easy to use. But is there something small maybe that you've built into the system, maybe just like a design choice, a protocol tweak Maybe most users won't even notice that, but it's something that you're quietly proud of?
00:10:27
Speaker
Well, particularly crowd proud of the back end because and were we're trying to build um ah the distributed ledger technology, the the the blockchain piece, in very much in the background under under the bonnet.
00:10:41
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the The customer doesn't need to know and probably won't know that there's a blockchain engine behind it. And that's really, really important for for security purposes and and and integrity.
00:10:54
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um So that's there's a lot of work that's gone in gone into the, as you say, the background and um um the engine of Let's Buy Healthcare. And that's still going on.
00:11:05
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as weve We recently signed up with Avalabs and ah Avalanche for an L1. So having our own sovereign blockchain allows us to tool and tweak and that blockchain in a way that you know it makes sense for us and allows us to scale in in time as well.
00:11:26
Speaker
um And I suppose that's that that's the thing about blockchain is that and well like we're still we're still very much a startup. And yet yet the blockchain is a global solution. So it forces you into into thinking globally, even though we were were it's premature for us to be even thinking along those lines. But blockchain has forced us into that.
00:11:48
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um and that's that's really I think one of the most interesting things that we found with the this this journey, this web 3 journey with Avalanche and Avalabs is that we've been forced into thinking globally which is you know very interesting.
00:12:08
Speaker
So building on that global thinking, you describe the platform as globally architected, but what does that mean in practice for somebody maybe who's not super familiar with blockchain and the way that all of this, that this system works? and Well, I think if if I might use, ah say, ah a sporting analogy, I think what what Avalanche and Avalabs do is effectively they build stadiums.
00:12:33
Speaker
um And it's up to guys like me to to to to fill the seats and play the game according to the rules. Now, it just so happens in blockchain, the stadium size and the capacity of the stadium is not 50,000 or 100,000. It be millions or billions.
00:12:48
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it can be millions or billions um And it seems to me from my perspective that the size and capacity of these stadiums is limited only by the scope and geographic location of the regulator or the compliance referee, if you like.
00:13:06
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um If you take for example, take the US and the EU and the UK as three different stadiums. There have to be three different stadiums because there's three different referees effectively.
00:13:19
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um But that type of analogy is important because The rules in those three areas are evolving and the regulation is evolving.
00:13:31
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and in the In the US, you've got this Stablecoin Act. In the in the EU, eu yeah the MICA regulations have have ah been published.
00:13:42
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The MICA Act, I should say. And the UK similarly have have their own way of ah regulating blockchain. So what trying to say is that...
00:13:54
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the We would never normally have thought along those lines.
Global Opportunities and Regulatory Advocacy
00:13:59
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But because blockchain is a global solution, um it it it it gives the opportunity for startups like ours to expand very quickly and very rapidly into um into huge markets, thanks to the likes of Avalanche and Avalabs.
00:14:15
Speaker
So it's it's a fantastic opportunity. I like that analogy, the the sporting, the stadium analogy. And you basically transitioned us right into regulation. And of course, that's that's part of what we talk a lot about here at Owl Explains, Web3 and regulation. So if you had five minutes with EU or Irish policymakers, what's the one thing you want you would want them to understand about blockchain and healthcare? care So like you're with a senior health but bureaucrat in Brussels, and what would you show them first from Let's Buy Healthcare?
00:14:47
Speaker
Well, I think the key thing, Sylvia, would be clarity. um we we we There has to be sir quite rightly has to be rules, regulations, customer protection, all of that stuff. That's absolutely critical.
00:15:03
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And we're happy to engage and comply with that. But we need clarity as to exactly you know what we are meant to do. um And ah I'm not absolutely sure that's quite there yet.
00:15:16
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ah Even only recently, um the the the ah the European Data Protection Board um issued some some regulations that that even permissionless blockchains could be considered personal data.
00:15:33
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ah So the GDPR side of things might have, you know, the implications of that need to be teased out. um So as you can see, this this there's it's it's ah it's emerging. the whole The whole compliance rule stuff is emerging. You see it in the US as well. and i say with that, you know, the different different referees. If I can stick to the sports analogy, there's different referees for different areas and they're deciding...
00:16:00
Speaker
but what which which referaration referee should referee which part of the pitch. ah So, yeah, I think clarity, to to cut a long so long story long story short, is would be the key requirement.
00:16:12
Speaker
ah Because once once we have clarification, happy to sign up, happy to engage, happy to put money and funds behind it. and But we don't want to do that when the sands are shifting a small bit and things are not absolutely crystal clear.
00:16:28
Speaker
Because then there's a risk of of going down one of these cul-de-sacs, as ah as ah I explained earlier. Because that's that's very easy. That can happen very easily. So it all comes down to a call for clarity.
00:16:41
Speaker
Yeah. and yeah I'm sure sitting home with a lot of builders in this space. You in the healthcare care space, building on on blockchain. But also, i think this is something that is has become a recurring theme as we talk to projects like these.
00:16:56
Speaker
that yeah you have the intention you have this super cool idea but of course since this tech is moving fast but then there's different regulatory schemes and a lot of stuff going on I'm sure it can be quite unclear across both ends and you've built this with a European lens but how do different countries' health systems shape the way you're thinking about scale or about specific product features on the platform Yeah, yeah we've had we've had inquiries from from in various different countries.
00:17:28
Speaker
and We didn't go looking for but didn't go looking for that, I can assure you, as as a small little ah startup. But we've had inquiries from the likes of Chile in South America and and South Africa in particular, um where their particular um health systems have issues, and different issues in both cases,
00:17:50
Speaker
um And and they they were very interested in how the healthcare coins works as a solution for people, particularly for people, i say, who are are at the lower end of of of ah of ah of affordability.
00:18:03
Speaker
um But yeah, we've had inquiries from Chile, South Africa, Mexico, Poland, Portugal. Yeah, all over the place. Very interesting because it there there isn't really anything like ah the tokenized version of health care, private health care out there.
00:18:21
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um Certainly not not none that's as developed as as we have brought it. So, yeah, the the blockchain... Marriage, if you like, I think will be very important for scaling ah into into into different jurisdictions.
00:18:39
Speaker
And not only the clarity on on regulation is important, but the consistency. Ideally, I listed three examples earlier, EU, UK and the US. like an In an ideal world,
00:18:54
Speaker
there would be consistency over the requirements as well as clarity. That's probably a bit of a... I've been optimistic having three three referees agree on the same same rule, but ah that would be ideal, like that we have a global blockchain solution and product that would fit ideally with global regulation and compliance requirements.
Vision for Tokenized Healthcare Finance
00:19:19
Speaker
That would be the the gold medal, so to speak. And we're all we're all working on that goal. I think that that's also why a lot of these initiatives exist. That's also why we like to basically demystify and break some of the myths around the technology, around what you can do, and that way you can have, I wouldn't say, like this perfect harmonized regulation, because I think that's that would be beautiful to have, but...
00:19:45
Speaker
i I don't think we're going to really get there, but just some some consistency, some clarity that would be super helpful across the space. and And specifically in your case, you're not just building a payment system. You are pretty much reshaping the way that people plan for and access healthcare.
00:20:04
Speaker
and When did you realize this wasn't just fintech anymore? Because I'm sure that there can be a lot of, i don't know, there's quite a great a gray area of like, oh, it's all fintech, give your own crypto or blockchain. But yeah, how was like this the separation for you?
00:20:21
Speaker
Well, I suppose the the the access, what's driven us really is to try to improve access for people to private private healthcare care providers. And that piece, actually that was the initial piece, the initial thought but was to do that and and to try and ah effectively have a shop window.
00:20:41
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of different medical providers offering services for different treatments and to make it easy and simply clickable effectively for appointments.
00:20:53
Speaker
and or were We've made some progress. We're not... we're not We're not there yet. but We have made some progress, particularly on the issue of transparency of medical care prices um and in different areas.
00:21:07
Speaker
That's quite a sensitive topic for lots of reasons. um But we see no reason why medical prices shouldn't be as transparent, as clear, and as obvious as as buying a car or buying a fridge.
00:21:22
Speaker
You should know what the prices are up front, whether it's it's a normal GP consultation or whether you're having your knee replaced. um it we we we are of the view that there should be full transparency for for for lots of reasons. one one One of the reasons that we think that's particularly important is it's not like...
00:21:41
Speaker
um when you're buying a car or buying a television, you have some sense as to what's value for money because and the chances are you've had an experience like that in the past.
00:21:53
Speaker
With healthcare, a lot of and treatments and operations tend to be once, maybe at most twice in your lifetime. So you have no sense of value. In a lot of cases, it's not really top your list. You just want to get better. You want to be fixed. You want to get treated. want to get healthy again.
00:22:14
Speaker
So um the money side and the financial side is less important. And as a result, we think that's that's not great. That should be very clear. Prices should be very transparent.
00:22:26
Speaker
And you should be able to assess value for money very quickly. That's amazing. And looking ahead five years, and of course, we can have an idea today and then maybe something else comes up. But what does growth look like to you? And could we say that this is the start of a new category, tokenized health finance?
00:22:47
Speaker
I'd love to think that we'd end up we'd end up with a he a private healthcare currency, effectively. That's, but and in a sense, one that you can transfer your fiat currency into healthcare coins.
00:23:03
Speaker
But you can't go backwards. You can only go from healthcare coins into using them for healthcare. So that's essentially where we're trying to that's what we're trying to get to. um ah I've heard of of obviously as central bank digital currencies.
00:23:18
Speaker
What we're looking for is a healthcare digital currency. So yeah, that's ultimately where we'd love to get to. and ambitious we don't like ambition and that's by healthcare care ah we like a lot of things but one of the things we don't like is ambition but yeah that's where we'd love to get to eventually great and before we wrap up just basically thinking about your your experience on this space what excites you most about the future of this new model of of healthcare care and maybe what's something that that keeps you up at night is there anything else you'd like to share that we haven't covered yet
00:23:55
Speaker
ah Well, I suppose like any startup, i the the the funding side of things is is is sometimes difficult to make up to make the numbers add up. ah like what excites me is is the mr prospect of making a real difference in people's lives, ah um not not in a small way.
00:24:17
Speaker
And for all of us, everybody, and everybody listening, I mean, the one most important thing in in their and our lives is health care. and looking after our family. So if Let's Buy Healthcare carere can make even a small little change, a small little difference in that, well, that's that's been worth
Conclusion and Further Exploration Resources
00:24:35
Speaker
doing. So yeah, that's that what keeps us motivated.
00:24:38
Speaker
For sure. No, ah that has been amazing. I've really enjoyed talking about your journey, about how this need, this idea is now this amazing platform. and I'm sure it's going to continue changing a lot of people's lives. So thank you for joining us, Dave. It was amazing to talk to So that's a wrap on today's conversation with Dave Allen of Let's Buy Healthcare, care a project that shows that blockchain can be tangible, life-changing.
00:25:05
Speaker
So to our listeners, if this episode got you thinking, I encourage you to share it with someone who still believes that crypto is just meme coins and no hate against meme coins. If you're into that, um you do you. But I just think it's important to highlight that there's so much more to this space.
00:25:23
Speaker
And I also encourage you to check out let's buy healthcare.com to see how they're making web three work for real people. And so that you can learn more about this super cool use case. So once again, thank you, Dave.
00:25:34
Speaker
And that's it for now till next time.
00:25:39
Speaker
We hope you enjoyed our Hootenanny. Thank you for listening. For more hootful and hype-free resources, visit owlexplains.com. There, you will find articles, quizzes, practical explainers, suggested reading materials, and lots more.
00:25:54
Speaker
Also, follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn to continue wising up on blockchain and Web3. That's all for now on Owl Explains. Until next time.