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Ep 58: Inclusion Is Infrastructure: Diversity and Design in Web3
51 Plays2 days ago
Crypto says it’s for everyone, but who’s actually building the future? Michelle O’Connor, founder of The Digital Future, joins us to talk about inclusion, innovation, and why the next wave of Web3 depends on who’s in the room. From breaking down crypto’s insider language to creating real access for builders across different backgrounds and regions, Michelle shares how diverse voices are shaping the next era of Web3. Together, we explore what happens when the people designing the technology finally reflect the world it’s meant to serve.
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Transcript
Introduction to Owl Explains Hootenanny Podcast
00:00:06
Speaker
Hello and welcome to this Owl Explains Hootenanny, our podcast series where you can wise up on blockchain and Web3 as we talk to the people seeking to build a better internet.
00:00:17
Speaker
Owl Explains is powered by Avalabs, a blockchain software company and participant in the Avalanche ecosystem. My name is Silvia Sanchez, project manager of Owl Explains, and with that, I'll hand it over to today's amazing speakers.
Who Builds the Future in Web3?
00:00:33
Speaker
Hi everybody, welcome back to Owl Explains. Here's a question that I have been thinking about lately. Who gets to build the future? We love to say crypto and Web3 are for everyone. Global, open, permissionless. But when you look around, it's pretty clear that not everybody's voice is being heard.
00:00:50
Speaker
And unfortunately, not everybody's getting a seat at the table. But my guest today has been trying to change that.
Championing Inclusion: Michelle O'Connor's Role
00:00:57
Speaker
Michelle O'Connor is the founder of The Digital Future, where she helps Web3 and FinTech projects scale with clarity, strategy, and purpose.
00:01:05
Speaker
She has spent years in compliance, policy, and brand storytelling. But what what makes her work stand out is how human it is. She's all about bringing more voices into the room, not as a trend, but because it makes the work better.
00:01:18
Speaker
And today we're talking about inclusion as innovation. Who's shaping the next chapter of crypto? What's changing behind the scenes and the real stories of people building a more complete future?
Importance of Diverse Voices in Web3
00:01:29
Speaker
Michelle, welcome. I'm so happy you're here. Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be here today. Great. And i think this is an exciting episode because it's a bit different from the usual policy updates or crypto use cases, but I think it's a huge topic. And i honestly love to to talk to women changing the space. So when...
00:01:52
Speaker
you know, when we had a prep call, I was really excited about this. So um to get started, I just wanted to ask, when you talk about inclusion in this space, what does that really mean to you? Is it representation, access, leadership, or or something else entirely?
00:02:07
Speaker
For me, it's yes and to all of that. If you look at My story and how I got into this space, it was 11 years ago, which is insane to think now.
00:02:17
Speaker
I had no background in blockchain, crypto, and very little fintech. I met a founder who was building a company who believed in the way that I approached things and gave me this space and time back 2014 to really dig into the technology.
00:02:38
Speaker
If I wouldn't have had that opportunity and a founder who gave me three months to dive deep with developers in Portugal, i wouldn't be here today. So for me, it's not only representation and ensuring that we have multiple voices at the table, but it's really helping people who don't have a crypto or fintech background realize that different voices, different exposure, different experiences make each individual a powerful influence. And it's who the industry is trying to speak to and to support and bring forward. So we can't bring the next hundred million, as everyone says we want to do, if we don't have people at the table,
00:03:24
Speaker
who can share their voices and experience. That's so true. And and again, more than adding liquidity to the market, it's okay. Because I think sometimes people get caught up in that, just in the the numbers, not in the quantitative part of it.
00:03:38
Speaker
But it's all okay. Who else is
Challenges to Web3's Inclusivity Claims
00:03:41
Speaker
here? And you i think the Web3 space loves to say that it's open to everybody, that it's accessible And in part, it's true, but again, the reality doesn't always match that promise. So where do you think that disconnect happens?
00:03:56
Speaker
Well, there's the the UX side that we won't talk about today. And then there's understanding and the comprehension and vernacular, I think and hope we're getting better. But if you you were just recently at a group of conferences, I travel quite a bit And if you're in a group with crypto native people, the phrasing and acronyms and words that get thrown around can be really overwhelming for folks who are not in the space. And I sometimes laugh and say, what are we even talking about right now?
00:04:31
Speaker
Because by the time you get through the acronyms, I think half of us have forgotten what we've started to try and solve for. So there's the education and understanding and really simplifying what we do that we've done a much better job recently, but there's still a lot more to do. If you look at traditional finance, people don't understand how banks work generally. They just were used to taking their money, getting their paycheck, not thinking how I send money from myself to you
00:05:03
Speaker
You just trust that it's happening. When we can get there in our industry, and I think we're getting closer, it will be more empowering where it's not the intimidating technology or how things are done. It's just easier, faster, better, cheaper, more transparent.
00:05:22
Speaker
Those are whenever I talk to someone, I lead with that versus the underpinning and the layer twos and the more complex things that people just, they don't really need to know.
00:05:33
Speaker
Right. That's a really good part, no? Because it's not just about the technicalities, the UX side of things, because that's a whole other conversation. But even the casual, WAGMI, WAGAMIs, no? Like, we're all going to make it. And it sort of becomes this this new language, a or the DYOR. And I think um it's just as important as defining those things that are just so ingrained into the industry at this point that have become part of the lingo,
00:06:02
Speaker
I think we were also looking at updating our our explainers, like this taxonomy project that Raul explains. And, okay, we went through, you know, smart contracts, taking, that part is important, but we literally had to add a section of, okay, what does DYOR mean?
00:06:19
Speaker
The doing research and all that part. and Even though it's not, again, part of the technology, what is blockchain? And again, it is important to understand the technology, but also, okay, what are we even talking about? What's part of that lingo? So it's interesting that that you mentioned that.
Diversity: A Catalyst for Innovation
00:06:38
Speaker
um And let's talk also about diversity, not as a corporate checkbox, but as a driver of creativity, innovation, legitimacy. You said, okay, if we want to bring the next 100 million, m we need to also realize that it's a driver of of creativity and innovation in the industry. a And I think we often talk a lot about decentralization, but we rarely talk about the diversity of decision-making. So how do those ideas connect?
00:07:06
Speaker
Yeah. So a group, I'm the chief strategy officer of the Association of Women in Crypto, an industry group that was founded ah few years ago by Amanda Wick.
00:07:18
Speaker
And the reason I joined that group and have become more involved is the vision mission was to break down some of the barriers that we just discussed with with understanding education, but then also bring understanding to employers, to employees, to job seekers, to different teams, how to really leverage what diversity, equity, and inclusion means. And it's not just a checkbox, as you said, it's really leveraging the benefit that different voices, exposures, and life experience bring to the table.
00:07:57
Speaker
Some of the most powerful conversations I've had are with leaders who come from different socioeconomic backgrounds, different educational backgrounds, different familial backgrounds, different gender identifiers.
00:08:14
Speaker
And it's not just because it's a necessary conversation, it's because if you take your preconceived notions out of something. How does someone else receive or perceive?
00:08:27
Speaker
it really can help open up your mind. And that's what's so important for any industry that wants to be disruptive or emergent. You have to remember who you're talking to or else you just fall into, you might as well be a trad fi box.
00:08:45
Speaker
And not that that's bad. There's a place for that. right what women in crypto has done and making places more comfortable and more empowering and safe is something that's really important absolutely and i love that you mentioned amanda wick in fact she was on our our show a few months ago she was lovely and and yeah i think it's about okay these types of drivers that are actually creating change in the industry, including voices, creating these safe spaces, empowering women.
00:09:18
Speaker
um And who else would you also like to to talk about that is doing meaningful work right now that deserves more attention, whether it's women-led DAOs or more inclusive DeFi platforms or just local crypto education projects?
Underestimated Regions in Web3
00:09:32
Speaker
There's quite a few that I've seen that are doing great work. There's a few other industry groups that are doing great. GBBC is one of them GDF is another.
00:09:44
Speaker
There are different women in the space that I've gotten close with that are that are bringing conversations and things forward. Helen Disney, which is how we connected.
00:09:55
Speaker
it's building that network and making sure i always tell I have two girls myself and I always tell them it's not about climbing the ladder. It's remembering to go back and who pulls you up with them is really important and building strong relationships and looking at how people represent themselves across groups over time is really important.
00:10:23
Speaker
Unfortunately, i've seen some projects that have, kind of stopped and started when it comes to diversity, or they'll start with One Vision Mission and then take on funding and shift to exactly the antithesis of what they started as.
00:10:41
Speaker
There's quite a few different groups. um She-Fi is one of them that I think is doing amazing work. on breaking down the educational barriers, what you all do as well is incredible. So it's it's really meeting people where they're at and how they they want to learn more.
00:11:01
Speaker
Thank you. and And that's a beautiful statement. Like it's not about climbing the ladder. And i think it's always a ah good reminder. okay It's not about just getting to the top right away and doing it and I'm the best, but it's about, okay, creating these strong relationships, having that good presentation over time.
00:11:18
Speaker
um And also, I wanted to talk about regions, communities. So are there regions or communities that the industry might underestimate, but you think that are going to to define the next wave? Because I think that when when you travel and you see this firsthand, there are places or moments that make you think, OK, this is where the next chapter starts. So um what is that for you?
00:11:44
Speaker
I'll split it into two different topics. So there's the real adoption and use that we've seen in unbanked and underbanked regions. When I was at uphold for six and a half years.
00:12:00
Speaker
Latin America was one of their fastest growing regions and still is. We've seen in the industry, also in areas of Africa, where they are unable to access traditional finance or there's corruption within the government.
00:12:17
Speaker
Digital asset is is naturally a disruptive technology for the people. it It goes back to the whole genesis of why it was created. So there's the the real natural adoption where if you look at why I joined this space and why I've stayed, those use cases are very important. And I want i always try and make sure that we don't lose sight of those when we're talking about what we do on a panel on a stage. there's There's those who need the disruption to be able to thrive and survive. And then there are those who are improving financial rails and systems. So there' there's the the real world use cases that are making such important
Real-World Adoption Leaders
00:13:02
Speaker
changes. And then there's the regions that I think are
00:13:05
Speaker
bringing the industry forward. and We saw the U.S. is finally catching up with the new administration. There was there was a while where we were delayed. Europe and EMEA really came forward with regulations, seeing adoption there.
00:13:22
Speaker
We're seeing, obviously, Singapore is one of the leaders. Dubai, UAE are coming quickly. There's a lot of adoption there and a lot of When you see private and public sector working together is where it really crystallizes.
00:13:40
Speaker
So those are a few of the regions that I see. But what's really nice is it feels that the industry is working together and and to build and build back better from some of the mistakes we've made over the past decade.
00:13:55
Speaker
That's a really good point. Yeah, having that private and public sector partnership. um And again, it's sometimes it sounds better on paper. And then when you finally see that in person, it's actually happening, things are moving, that's always, um how can I say, yeah satisfying. no It gives you a sense of...
00:14:12
Speaker
of comfort um and i also like what you said of okay you you can have a north star and okay you have these objectives but also remembering okay why did i even join this space why am i staying here um because i think it's also a bit easy to get caught up in everything that happens since there are a lot of developments announcements token launches and when you add on top of that and policy things, regulatory updates.
00:14:42
Speaker
It can feel, no pun intended, like an avalanche sometimes. but um But the same time, it's like, okay, why am I here? What was the thing that that drew me to this space?
00:14:52
Speaker
and And personally, I think... um like I mentioned earlier, like I like to have these spaces of women that are changing the industry to see people talking about this.
00:15:04
Speaker
Because I think also i didn't start so long ago, not 11 years. It was more like a half of that time. But even back then it was curiosity. And then I saw that there was a lot of misinformation back then and that there were not a lot of Latin women talking about it. So and think a lot of this educational aspects for me began more with social media. Like I was, I just started posting videos on, on TikTok back when it started and well, what is a blockchain and talking about it in Spanish. And now it's, it led us to here.
00:15:38
Speaker
um then when you look back on it, it's like, oh, okay, like there's a reason. And it gives you even more motivation to see, okay, there has been and a lot of good work done, the industry and also people, there's more education,
00:15:54
Speaker
but there's still such a long way to go. And i was like, you when you're climbing a mountain, you're like, oh, wow, okay, we've advanced, or you look at your and you're a fitness watch. But then you're like, okay, we still have some so space ahead.
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Speaker
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00:17:05
Speaker
um And you've you've worked across traditional finance and now Web3, but... but What mistake from the old world, to put it that way, do you see us in Web3 repeating and what would be a good way to to fix that?
Avoiding Traditional Finance Mistakes
00:17:23
Speaker
So I, it's a really good question. There's learnings that I believe are constantly improving. so regulation and and the need for regulation is something that was met previously with a lot of contention, especially where it was unnecessary for people.
00:17:47
Speaker
They didn't believe that this should be regulated. They believed it should be free, borderless, everything should be there. And that just wasn't a reality. We saw in some of the boom and bust cycles across digital assets. When there wasn't enough regulation, bad stuff happens. When there's a lot of money, you have to have guardrails, unfortunately.
00:18:11
Speaker
Some of the mistakes that I believe we're making is forgetting the purpose point of what this technology can do. There's amazing innovation that can be done. And to just repeat what banks do without looking at how can it be faster? How can it be disruptive?
00:18:32
Speaker
Do you need to step back and look at, does it need to be geographically centralized? Is it a global and way of operating finance? How do you approach that? What does it look like? Who regulates it? What's the oversight?
00:18:48
Speaker
i worry sometimes that we're just
00:18:52
Speaker
digitizing the past instead of looking at what is the future need and what are the next 15-20 years look like. We can't, we look six months ahead and everything changes so much.
00:19:05
Speaker
but That's a good point. i So basically it would be like remembering, okay, why do we even have Web3? What was the point of having these faster, better distributed systems? Because I think otherwise it's just fancy marketing. No, it's like you say that you're you're a Web3 project, but if you still operate like traditional finance or you keep it very closed, very centralized or just...
00:19:30
Speaker
and yeah, there's this inaccessibility component. Basically, you're doing that same thing, but just putting it in ah in a colorful, fancy box, seeing the trendy and words and what's what's on style right now, which is, okay, but three crypto, but at the core, you're not really driving the change.
00:19:49
Speaker
Yeah.
Rebuilding Web3 Infrastructure for Inclusion
00:19:51
Speaker
And so if inclusion is infrastructure, what's one part of the system that perhaps you would rebuild from scratch, whether it's education, funding, governance, culture, or all of them, it's just one of them that sticks out right now?
00:20:07
Speaker
One of the areas that I see in projects that I advise and work with that really has a chance and opportunity to continue the North Star vision, but also improve upon what's been built,
00:20:21
Speaker
is looking <unk> starting at zero. How are things built? What does it look like? Who are you trying to serve? Who is your audience?
00:20:32
Speaker
How do you use technology like AI and other areas that are so, again, disruptive is an overused phrase, but but they they change and improve the way things are built and done. So a lot of the projects that I work with, how can you do things faster, better?
00:20:52
Speaker
How can you leverage your network? Look at other founders. What are they building? Do you need to build everything yourself or do you build stack and bring things together?
00:21:03
Speaker
That's one of the areas where I always look at. You can build by partner and and that's the best way. And I think we do that pretty well in this space. I continue to look at how we bring diversity and inclusion and what does that look like and do it in an authentic way, not in a check the box way, as you said earlier.
00:21:24
Speaker
So that's something whenever I'm looking at conversations, I'm having projects I'm working on. If people are looking at a hiring, really ensuring that they're going broad in their search as well as who they're considering when they look at talent.
00:21:41
Speaker
I love that. and And building on that, if you could redesign the next big crypto conference, because there there are so many of them. And um of course, there are some that are just...
00:21:52
Speaker
more wow than others. So there's a starting out and that's also totally fine. But how would you make it more, how would, how would make it look more like the industry's future instead of its past? As you mentioned earlier, like how can we make that vision a bit more tangible for something so common in the industry as as the crypto conference?
00:22:12
Speaker
One of the challenges that I believe conference programs will face sooner versus later. And I think they already are. I myself, I'm an extroverted introvert.
00:22:26
Speaker
So I don't enjoy 10,000 people conferences. i get I get overwhelmed.
Vision for Future Crypto Conferences
00:22:33
Speaker
I have to be on and talk to people, but I really only want to talk to the 15 people that I'm there to meet.
00:22:40
Speaker
The extravagant spend on booths, the crazy parties, some of those have a time and place, but I believe the point of connection is where everyone that I talk to, a lot of people aren't going to the conferences. They're going to the cities where the conferences are being hosted and doing the side events, the curation, the small meaningful connections.
00:23:06
Speaker
So that's where I see things getting to. And it really speaks to what our industry is doing, the community, the meeting people where they're at. What does it matter? What are you trying to build? How can we work together to do something?
00:23:21
Speaker
is where I see a lot of this going. Smaller, more curated, purposeful is where I'm trending and I'm seeing a lot of other invites coming as well.
00:23:33
Speaker
I do regional, ah very small, under 150 person, very curated. Each person is specifically invited because of their expertise, topic, or contributions.
00:23:46
Speaker
That's where a lot of purpose is built. You see different platforms, projects, hosting their own. Those are where I see a lot of impact. The big ones have their place, but it's just so overwhelming.
00:24:01
Speaker
and then for teams that attend, How do they show ah ROI? Because there's huge investment. It's not just about meeting 400 people. It really should be ah handful of people in a meaningful way building a relationship conversation or driving something forward. So so essentially, if as we could summarize that, it would be that quality over quantity networking.
00:24:25
Speaker
a more targeted approach. um And it's so interesting because we were literally and talking about that. and like Like I told you before starting the recording, was like, yeah, we went, for example, to Token.
00:24:37
Speaker
was great conference, very well organized. But I think, at least for me, the big reason was that we were hosting our as we call it, owl parliaments. Because, fun fact, a group of owls is called the Parliament of Owls.
00:24:49
Speaker
So we're like, okay, we host these little owl parliaments, 35 to 40 people talking about, okay, for example, stablecoins in APAC in Latin America. So these types of little events.
00:25:01
Speaker
And... I think more than the fact that it's true that on one side, there's less overhead costs, but when you look at it, you're like, oh, wow, I got to talk to this and this person, and they're, okay, more specialized, curated spaces, and yes, there's a time and a place where these classic crypto parties, you know, all the the extravaganza, and i think that's that's fun and dynamic, but but not all the time. Or or just to say that, not necessarily...
00:25:32
Speaker
for for every moment, no? Because there are projects that can have a small space, a gathering, and can be just effective, even if you don't have all the all the millions to throw a huge party at a rooftop with DJs from who knows where.
00:25:48
Speaker
um Just to say that... i am there's also space for that. Like, it's not just about getting intimidated. i think if you're a small project and you might think to yourself, okay, I don't really have the means or bandwidth or just the capacity to do to host these huge events.
00:26:08
Speaker
There's so much power and a small room, curated people or targeted networking when you go to meet people. Because that also drives change. Yeah.
Stablecoin Adoption and Finance Convergence
00:26:18
Speaker
And also, what would be, you mentioned again, and remembering that we're building the future and having that vision, but what are some of the most important industry trends that you are paying attention to right now?
00:26:31
Speaker
A few of the ones that I am really excited and enthused about, ah well, everyone's talked about it. The adoption of stable coins is really exciting because it's very exciting.
00:26:45
Speaker
easy for almost anyone to understand at at a surface layer. It also is the tipping point for most traditional finance to come into the space.
00:26:56
Speaker
So quite a few in the U.S. of the Fortune 500 companies have had secret projects that they're working on with blockchain teams for years. Stablecoins and regulatory clarity is what really opened up the world. If you see some of the biggest banks are hiring at a breakneck pace for digital asset blockchain experts.
00:27:21
Speaker
That's a great indicator that they're actually moving at pace and looking to catch up. One of the things and the trends that I've seen previously that I believe coming will be actually convergence of companies coming together. so i believe there's acquisitions that will be happening over the next probably 12 months of projects that have been building and then the bigger traditional finance coming in and saying, okay, you've built, you've got direction, you've got velocity, you've got use case, and you've got team, we'll buy you and then keep building. So that's where I see actually what can be a little disruptive near term, long term. It's great because the process and procedure that those traditional entities have in place
00:28:10
Speaker
have so much consumer protections that it helps mitigate some of the issues that we've had previously in this industry. So that's where I'm really excited. and then I also feel it's very promising. One of the projects that Amanda Wick and Women in Crypto did was Unmantle Your Panel and that is last International Women's Day. And now I speak at conferences quite a bit Every person or every prep call or every invite I get, someone says, oh, we got to swap this because it's a mantle or it it's so top of mind.
00:28:51
Speaker
And it's not just to check a box. It's ensuring that there's the diversity of mind share across. So it's been really nice to see something that was just done on LinkedIn has made a ah change and the industry has embraced it. So that those are a few of the things I'm really excited about.
00:29:10
Speaker
I love that. and And yeah, that initiative of Unmantle Your Panel, we also stand by that at Owl Explains. Yeah. like Because I think, as you mentioned, it's not just about ticking boxes or, okay, let's have a woman here sitting for the sake of having her here or just to say, oh, we're inclusive.
00:29:29
Speaker
Because I think it's not just about looking good on the outside, which, again, if that's what it takes to make some companies be more inclusive and open up the door, okay, that's the first step.
00:29:40
Speaker
But then it's the why. Okay, why am I even bothering to... go out of my way and include more people. It's kind of like traveling in a way that it opens your mind.
00:29:51
Speaker
it like you you don't just travel to say, oh, I've been to this country and Chekhov countries are like having these maps where you put the pins of where you've been. That's nice. Okay, but but why are you doing it? Are you opening up your mind to new cultures, new ways to do things?
00:30:08
Speaker
And I think the industry needs more of that because it has this space for creativity, but I think that there There still needs to be more more of that and and keeping that wide of, okay, we have women in our panel, we have people from different parts of the world, but seeing that, it's actually empowering also to us, not just to to them to be heard, but for us to hear these other voices, to have them, to recognize in a conversation, in a panel, in a thought leader, and ah and a leader that you aspire to be, to see yourself or to see where you aspire to be is really important.
00:30:49
Speaker
And it's what... As I look at my kids, right, it's always, what do I want for them? I want them to see people who inspire them, but they can also have conflicting opinions with, and diversity of thought is something that I really and proud of our industry for encouraging. That's huge. and And that's very enriching because I think it can be tempting to to just hear what you want to hear or be stuck in a silo. Or even i think the algorithms do that.
00:31:19
Speaker
Like do you think that everybody is stuck in that same box agreeing with you. But then when you step outside, when you zoom out, you realize, oh wow, I may not agree with this way, but there is a logic. There is ah a why that just makes you so much more and more open. And you mentioned who is the leader that I aspire to be. So I know we're almost out of time, but I wanted to ask you, what's the most underrated skill in crypto leadership to
The Role of Emotional Intelligence in Crypto Leadership
00:31:44
Speaker
you?
00:31:44
Speaker
I think it's actually EQ. It's one of the areas where I see, I work with a leadership coach and EQ and a new leader, I believe our industry is really bringing where it's not just following traditional process of this is how you get to be up the corporate ladder. It's what have you achieved? What did you bring? What's your expertise?
00:32:14
Speaker
EQ and leading with instinct is something that I think is going to be how future leaders drive. And it's really inspiring and exciting to see.
00:32:27
Speaker
For sure Well, that was amazing. Thank you so much, Michelle. and I also wanted to ask you, where can people find you? Where can people follow your work? um Yeah, just as we wrap up.
00:32:39
Speaker
Sure. So sorry, my um calendar alerts are ignoring my do not disturb. I am on LinkedIn at Michelle O'Connor. i am on Twitter, which I guess is X, but it will always be Twitter to me.
Resources and Further Exploration
00:32:54
Speaker
m q two o c o And i'm I'm on different areas of of the interwebs. And then and if you want to learn more about digital future, it's thedigitalfuture.xyz. Amazing. Well, thank you so much. That was, again, Michelle O'Connor, founder of The Digital Future. And i loved our chats and the way you framed inclusion, not as charity or a requirement, but as infrastructure and empowerment. Because, again, it's easy to talk about what three, like,
00:33:22
Speaker
the next revolution, the next internet, and it is, but the truth is, it only becomes that if the people that are building it reflect the people that it's supposed to serve. So what I take away from this conversation is also that inclusion isn't about optics, but about architecture, who's writing the code, who funds the ideas, who's even invited to build.
00:33:43
Speaker
Those decisions ultimately shape what this technology becomes and I think you captured it perfectly. So thanks again, Michelle. Thanks again, everybody for tuning in. Till next time.
00:33:55
Speaker
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00:34:11
Speaker
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