Transcript
Speaker: Every single moment as a human being is an experiment.
Speaker: Every single moment is one we've never been in before.
Speaker: And sometimes we'll get it right.
Speaker: And sometimes we won't.
Speaker: And our won't is necessarily wrong.
Speaker: Our won't is learning.
Speaker: So I want to be given that kind of grace that I don't have to give it right every single time.
Speaker: And if I want that, I think I need to give that or at least try to give that to other people.
Speaker: Retirement.
Speaker: That's what we're all aiming at, right?
Speaker: But exactly what does that mean?
Speaker: It conjures up visions of endless days of golf, drinks with little umbrellas in them on a tropical beach, feet up reading a book.
Speaker: Is that what it's all about?
Speaker: I don't think so.
Speaker: Life would get pretty dull after a while without anything meaningful to do, don't you think?
Speaker: I'm Jackie Doucette, and I'm on a mission to discover exactly what life is like beyond retirement.
Speaker: Join me while I chat with people who've already done it, who've retired to something rather than from something.
Speaker: Let's find out together exactly what's waiting for us when we say goodbye to that nine-to-five.
Speaker: Hi, everyone.
Speaker: Welcome to another episode of Beyond Retirement.
Speaker: Today, I'm joined by Kimberly Best, who's a mediator, a conflict manager, and the author of How to Live Forever, a guide to writing the final chapter of your life story.
Speaker: Thanks for joining me today, Kimberly.
Speaker: Yeah, it's an honor to be here, Jackie.
Speaker: Thanks for having me.
Speaker: So I always start this way.
Speaker: Before we get into our discussion, can you just tell us a little bit about where you came from and how you ended up doing what you're doing now?
Speaker: Yeah, thank you.
Speaker: Yeah, I graduated as a registered nurse at the ripe old age of 19 and spent a couple plus decades working every intensive care unit there is, working in trauma and ultimately working in the emergency department.
Speaker: There was a part during the trauma where I just was burned out.
Speaker: from seeing people suffer so much.
Speaker: So I went back to school, graduate school in clinical community psychology because people have always fascinated me.
Speaker: So went through that and then realized that I have the heart of an ER nurse.
Speaker: I like things to chop, chop, let's fix it now.
Speaker: And for me, practicing psychology looked like something akin to watching paint dry.
Speaker: So no offense to counselors, it's a slow process and maybe nothing happens.
Speaker: So then I went back into nursing, got out of nursing when my twins came along.
Speaker: I homeschooled them for a few years.
Speaker: And then I went through a really bad divorce.
Speaker: And my brother, who is an educator, said, hey, I ran across this thing called transformative mediation at Hofstra University in New York.
Speaker: It talks about how to resolve our problems without beating each other up, like how to identify the issues and resolve them.
Speaker: So I took a little trip to Hofstra and started studying transformative mediation, which I'm not a transformative mediator.
Speaker: They have way more self-discipline than I have.
Speaker: They have a very precise process.
Speaker: And, you know, I feel like a lot of things don't fit into a precise process.
Speaker: So I went to graduate school in conflict management then.
Speaker: And since then have moved into all types of mediation, facilitation, restorative practices, anywhere where there's a potential for peace building.
Speaker: I'm sure that many of the people listening have experienced some conflict in one or more of their relationships through the years.
Speaker: And as we get older, as we get closer to the end of our life, sometimes we regret the problems and the conflicts that have caused some estrangement, maybe things that have happened over the years.
Speaker: But it's not always easy to reverse the effects of those conflicts.
Speaker: People aren't always able to move past the previous pain and see their way to mending the bridges.
Speaker: So how do you help people when they come to you?
Speaker: That is so well said.
Speaker: So first of all, I want to say that conflict is normal.
Speaker: And when we see or have conflict with someone, you know, sometimes we think if someone thinks differently than us, then they're against us.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But they're not necessarily against us.
Speaker: They just disagree with us.
Speaker: So I think there's an epidemic of estrangement right now.
Speaker: And I think the more we push people out of our lives because of disagreement, the more likely we are to end up alone later.
Speaker: And, you know, we just run out of people.
Speaker: Now, we don't do this because we're bad people.
Speaker: We do this because, I kiddie, we haven't learned how to handle conflict.
Speaker: I mean, very, very few of us have.
Speaker: And I say to that, you know, what happened in your life when you were growing up and you were the source of conflict?
Speaker: And how does that affect how you deal with conflict?
Speaker: So just learning how to walk through those difficult conversations is just hard.
Speaker: And it's hard for me when I'm the one in the conflict.
Speaker: I mean, I say I'm very, very, very good at my job, and I am without bragging, unless it's my own conflict.
Speaker: So I think the, you know, stepping out of it, having a third party sitting in that space to help you see what you can't see.
Speaker: For me, in my role, it's confidential.
Speaker: There's no judgment.
Speaker: It's not about blame.
Speaker: It's not about who's right and who's wrong.
Speaker: It's about identifying what the problem is.
Speaker: And the person is not the problem, right?
Speaker: Jackie is whatever because of an experience I had with her.
Speaker: You're way more than that.
Speaker: We all are, right?
Speaker: So what is the problem that I had with Jackie?
Speaker: Because I can't solve for a person, but we can solve the problem.
Speaker: So identifying the problems and then identifying how we wanna move forward.
Speaker: And of course there has to be some kind of reconciliation with the past, but often in talking through it, people kind of recognize their own part of that role, maybe recognize that we're all human and we will step on each other's toes sometimes.
Speaker: recognizing that maybe part of the problem was our disappointment over our own difficult expectations that maybe the other person wasn't even aware about.
Speaker: And then identifying what's important to both of us or all of us involved and making a goal toward that.
Speaker: I like that you say the person isn't the problem.
Speaker: And that's so hard to remember in the, in the heat of the moment.
Speaker: And so at what point should someone consider mediation if there's a problem between them and another family member?
Speaker: That's a fantastic problem.
Speaker: Always with problems, the sooner we can dig in the better, the easier it is because problems build up in a pile.
Speaker: And when the pile gets really big, it takes longer to sort through what's at the bottom of that pile because that pain or that unmet expectation or need, that's what's at the bottom of it.
Speaker: You know, it's not that you didn't return the pie pan.
Speaker: It's that not returning the pie pan says to me, you don't respect me.
Speaker: You know, it's that underneath.
Speaker: So there's no harm in, nothing is silly to need resolved.
Speaker: And every time people come, they learn a skill about resolving the conflict next time.
Speaker: So sometimes I work with families.
Speaker: I work with them for a while.
Speaker: They have a skill set that's resolved.
Speaker: They don't get stuck for a while.
Speaker: But because of a long history of doing things that didn't work, eventually they may get stuck again.
Speaker: We can go back.
Speaker: We can figure out where our stuck is and figure out how to move forward without doing damage to each other.
Speaker: Now, mediation is known for, you know, as an alternative to the legal process.
Speaker: So a lot of people get attorneys and they go to court and the judge says, first, you have to try mediation.
Speaker: And then they go to mediation.
Speaker: And if they have a good mediator, they probably come up with a resolution.
Speaker: They've paid attorneys up to that process.
Speaker: And they're paying attorneys to sit through the mediation as well.
Speaker: So there is a part of the American Bar Association that started an early dispute, early mediation process to avoid that long drawn out no win situation.
Speaker: When you lawyer up, you are just going to get more and more acrimonious.
Speaker: You know, it's like this lawyer does this, this lawyer does this.
Speaker: There's just an algorithm.
Speaker: And the, the,
Speaker: frustration for each person, the sense of betrayal, the sense of being wrong that just keeps building.
Speaker: And it's really hard to reconcile, harder to reconcile at a table than it would be if they came to the table first.
Speaker: So I think for me, there's always, always you leave better than you came in.
Speaker: Like you might not leave with the agreement you wanted.
Speaker: You might not even leave with
Speaker: an agreement, but you leave understanding the other person better.
Speaker: You leave being heard and understood yourself.
Speaker: You leave understanding you better.
Speaker: You leave with options that you didn't see before.
Speaker: And all of those things create some kind of change in that conflict.
Speaker: And hopefully it doesn't cost what it costs to have a lawyer doing.
Speaker: Not even close.
Speaker: That's the amazing thing.
Speaker: I mean, yeah, it's not even close.
Speaker: There are attorney mediators and non-attorney mediators.
Speaker: We probably, a lot of attorney mediators, you know, practice differently.
Speaker: They're practicing, you know, kind of who they are in lawyer mode a little bit.
Speaker: Non-attorney mediators often, like myself, have backgrounds in psychology and communication conflict.
Speaker: And it's a more human than, you know, methodical or near legal.
Speaker: But the truth is, you know,
Speaker: No one can practice law when they're in mediation.
Speaker: So no one can give legal advice and no one should be telling you what the outcome should be or what you need to do.
Speaker: We help the parties figure out what's best for them.
Speaker: So it's kind of like coaching.
Speaker: It is kind of like coaching.
Speaker: It's a hundred percent right.
Speaker: It is kind of like coaching, except that it holds a very safe space.
Speaker: You know, we ask a lot of questions.
Speaker: I mean, I, I,
Speaker: You were digging to find, you know, where the door is.
Speaker: Because we know we've made a brick wall when we're in that kind of conflict, right?
Speaker: And I say that my job is to turn that wall into a door.
Speaker: And there's almost always a way to do that.
Speaker: So one of the things you said earlier is that there are no silly things.
Speaker: problems or silly conflicts, just so that, you know, the listeners have an idea.
Speaker: What kind of conflicts have you run into with people heading towards retirement?
Speaker: Yeah, a lot of it is around family estrangement, you know, family problems in that sense of with their children, especially wanting to reconcile to some degree.
Speaker: A lot of it is around estate planning,
Speaker: It can be around medical decisions, medical care, disagreements among family members of what, you know, mom or dad or grandma or grandfather should be doing.
Speaker: Yeah, just disagreements over what kind of health care decisions to happen next.
Speaker: Yeah, mostly I would say trying to heal the past.
Speaker: So I think we have a hope, maybe even a drive, that we can end our lives without regret.
Speaker: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker: Like there are loops to close somewhere along the way.
Speaker: And it'd be nice if we closed them sooner because all the years that we've lost that they haven't been, you know, again, build up a story we're telling ourselves.
Speaker: But the fact that we recognize and we know from just studies that at the end of life, it never matters what we have or what we did.
Speaker: It always matters our relationships.
Speaker: And I think that sense comes into us more as we get older.
Speaker: Are there any tools that we could develop on our own to help prevent the kind of conflicts that show up and prevent them from getting out of hand?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, yes, there are.
Speaker: And I'm happy to put on a webinar because I do it all the time because there's lots of them.
Speaker: I think I'll give one is, well, I can give as many as you want, but I know you don't have all day.
Speaker: But one is often when we're in conflict with someone, it is very important to us that we are right or that we win the conflict, right?
Speaker: I had a really wise friend tell me decades ago, she said, you know, when I fight with my husband, I always win because I'm better with words and
Speaker: I'm more assertive.
Speaker: I just and she said, and one day I realized that for me to win, I had to make him lose.
Speaker: And I wanted to love enough that I didn't have to make someone lose.
Speaker: So when I have to be right, I have to make someone wrong and to care enough to not have to make someone wrong.
Speaker: That's one.
Speaker: I think listening with curiosity.
Speaker: I mean, we listen and we react.
Speaker: We hear something.
Speaker: It triggers us.
Speaker: We don't even hear the whole thing.
Speaker: Our brains are hardwired to make up a story for what we don't know.
Speaker: So, so much of what we tell ourselves is assumptions, just to be perfectly honest.
Speaker: So, instead of assuming, oh, you're saying that because you want me to, I can ask.
Speaker: So questions is a good way, not questions as an interrogation, but questions from a point of wanting to understand.
Speaker: So the story I'm telling myself, Jackie, is that you asked me that question because you really don't want me to go, you know, and you can say, no, it was this and that.
Speaker: And it's to believe your story too.
Speaker: Like I can't say, oh no, that's not what you meant.
Speaker: because that happens a lot, but I can't speak for what's going on for you.
Speaker: So it's accepting that the thing the person says is their truth.
Speaker: And then lastly, I think making room for people to change their mind, because what we say in this moment is our truth in this moment.
Speaker: But I know if you ask me tomorrow, after I've had a full tummy and I've rested, I might give a completely different answer than I did today.
Speaker: So when I go back and think about it and come back to you and say, you know, Jackie, I thought about it and I think now that blah, blah, blah, there has to be space for that without you thinking that I lied to you, which is very common.
Speaker: Well, you lied to me yesterday, you told me.
Speaker: We're not that black and white.
Speaker: So I think the thing to hold for that is I say that every single moment as a human being is an experiment.
Speaker: Every single moment is one we've never been in before.
Speaker: And sometimes we'll get it right.
Speaker: And sometimes we won't.
Speaker: And our won't is necessarily wrong.
Speaker: Our won't is learning.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So I want to be given that kind of grace that I don't have to give it right every single time.
Speaker: It'd be terribly disappointing for people who expected that.
Speaker: And if I want that, I think I need to give that or at least try to give that to other people.
Speaker: I like that.
Speaker: I like the first sentiment, the idea of loving enough not to have to be right or if they have to be wrong.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And to turn that around, even if you're not happy with not making someone else wrong.
Speaker: do you want to be wrong?
Speaker: You know, it kind of goes both ways.
Speaker: You know, you have to have a little bit of empathy and, you know, if you don't want to be in that situation, do you think they do?
Speaker: You know, the truth is there isn't a whole lot that's absolutely right or wrong.
Speaker: It's right or wrong for you for now and right or wrong for you.
Speaker: And for now, exactly.
Speaker: It is based on your upbringing, your DNA, your life experiences,
Speaker: That's what is right or true for you.
Speaker: This person has a just completely different set of that.
Speaker: So it's more kind of like honoring our differences instead of thinking everybody should be like us.
Speaker: And now I know, I know this is kind of jumping around a little bit, but I said in the beginning that you wrote a book called How to Live Forever, Guide to Writing the Final Chapter of Your Life Story.
Speaker: And I think this kind of stuff sort of goes into that as well.
Speaker: But, and I know you discussed it in the intro to your book.
Speaker: Can you talk a little bit about your motivation in writing that book?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yeah, I wasn't intending to be an author of a book.
Speaker: It just started falling out of me.
Speaker: It was, it was, I still kind of am awed by the experience, but I have seen a lot of people suffer for not having made conscious choices in how we do the last chapter of our lives.
Speaker: So whether it's from legal aspects or the healthcare that, that we haven't,
Speaker: talked about what we want done.
Speaker: I've seen people, you read my book, so you said some of the stories made you cry.
Speaker: I tell stories of what it's like for families, true stories, for families and patients who were put through hell because a family couldn't let go.
Speaker: So I feel like the end of life, the last chapter, it's not about
Speaker: it's not about dying well, it's about living well all the way to the end and being as purposeful as we are in the rest of our life and how we want that to be.
Speaker: Accepting that we're going to die, that it's not because you did something wrong or it's not because you ate too much bacon.
Speaker: I mean, we're going to die.
Speaker: And I think, I believe when we bring to light the things that we
Speaker: don't talk about that are in the dark, they're always way less scary than when we don't talk about them.
Speaker: So I like normalizing conflict.
Speaker: I want to normalize death, not to say it's not painful, not to say we don't grieve for the rest of our lives.
Speaker: I've lost family members and, you know, they're still in my heart.
Speaker: It's not like you get over it, but that is life.
Speaker: You know, that is life.
Speaker: So I wanted to offer a way to get through, you know, talk about the legal decisions and,
Speaker: how to make healthcare decisions that you're comfortable with, the papers you need for both, leaving your story as your legacy, because there are studies that say it's just fact, you know, only a small percentage of people want you to leave grandma's candlesticks.
Speaker: They want stories, they want the tie that is from
Speaker: their past to their future, that bridge, which is us, right?
Speaker: So leaving your story as your legacy and then resolving conflict along the way.
Speaker: I do have tips for conflict in there.
Speaker: And then I talk about mediation as a tool for making all of these decisions.
Speaker: And I know in the book, you quote some statistics that are from 2015.
Speaker: So they're almost 10 years old.
Speaker: Some of the things were just amazing.
Speaker: Like 90% of people say that talking about these sorts of things are important, but only less than 30% of them actually do it.
Speaker: Do you think that those numbers have changed any in the past 10 years?
Speaker: I do know those numbers.
Speaker: So thank you for asking that.
Speaker: You know, COVID changed everything for us, but it didn't, we still didn't start talking about dying.
Speaker: We just kept talking about how we make people live longer, even if their life is going to be miserable, you know, or how we kept people who were dying living longer and kept their families from them.
Speaker: I mean, there's a lot we talked about because our goal was people shouldn't die.
Speaker: So as far as the numbers, I do keep up on those.
Speaker: You know, we're up to, it was under 30%, we're over 30%.
Speaker: The thing that's changed in the past 10 years is something like 90% of people want to die at home.
Speaker: And prior to 10 years ago, about 40% plus were dying in hospitals, which is just not the place to end your life.
Speaker: It's a place for other things.
Speaker: Those numbers of dying at home have gone up.
Speaker: More people are able and opting to stay at home.
Speaker: And that's largely due to hospice.
Speaker: So hospice numbers have gone up.
Speaker: Some preparation has gone up as far as like advanced directives.
Speaker: But I think overall the trend to not talk about these things, even though there are a lot of people trying to advocate for these conversations, that's such a small process.
Speaker: That probably hasn't changed very much.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Mind boggling, right?
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: And I kind of cringed when you said, you know, there's more people advocating for, you know, extending life, even when you're miserable.
Speaker: And it's so hard to understand.
Speaker: And one of the stories in your in your book was, you know, about a family of a man, and they finally came in and said, Oh, what are we doing to you?
Speaker: You know, why are we doing this?
Speaker: And, and, you know, at some point, you've just got to got to be able to let go of that.
Speaker: And,
Speaker: Jackie, I want to say, yeah, that moment was that moment was the first time that is the moment that got me to go.
Speaker: I need to I need to do something else for a while because I took care of this man every single day.
Speaker: I was a good nurse and I kept the same patients as long as I could for the continuity.
Speaker: And I didn't want anybody else messing with him.
Speaker: So I took care of him every day and every single day.
Speaker: I thought, why are we doing this to you?
Speaker: because I knew he was suffering and I knew what he had was not curable.
Speaker: So ultimately it was, he was going to die, but we were dragging that out.
Speaker: And then finally the day his daughter came and threw herself over the top of him and said, sobbed, oh daddy, why are we doing this to you?
Speaker: I broke down.
Speaker: I've never broke down like that in my life.
Speaker: Like I really felt like I would never stop crying.
Speaker: So I think I was crying for the years of people that I saw that happen to.
Speaker: My best friend was standing behind me and she said she saw my shoulder shaking.
Speaker: And she thought I was laughing at something.
Speaker: She didn't realize she walked around and she saw me and she just led me into the nursing break room.
Speaker: It was a poignant moment to have to have someone who wasn't in medicine voice what we saw every single day, you know.
Speaker: and I get it's a hard decision.
Speaker: I call it walking the fine line between hope and regret, you know?
Speaker: But the thing is to base that decision on the quality of life.
Speaker: Can you do what matters to you?
Speaker: Or are we just keeping you alive?
Speaker: Because if we're just keeping you alive or putting you through horrible treatments like surgeries to fix somebody when they're dying anyway, I mean, can we stop and talk about how literally cruel
Speaker: That can be.
Speaker: And people don't lose their loved ones feeling any better for that either.
Speaker: You know, you lose that piece of the ending being one that has, you know, peace and dignity, even though endings are never easy.
Speaker: And that's one of the things that you talk about a lot in the book is setting in place all of the directives, all of the things to do with your life and your end of life so that when that time comes, your family doesn't have to agonize over it so that things can be as peaceful as possible.
Speaker: It's exactly right.
Speaker: Nobody wants their loved ones to be in pain and, you know, not enjoying the end of their life, but it's, but it's hard for the family to let go.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: It's a tough spot to be in.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So to not have to make that decision is one of the kindest things that you can do, I think, to your family or for your family is to take those, take those decisions away so that they don't have to make them when the time comes.
Speaker: Yes, for you and for your family, you're 100% right on that.
Speaker: And if you go to your kids and say, hey, I want to talk about this, and they do what kids often do, say, oh, no, no, no, you're going to live forever.
Speaker: Well, I really don't want to.
Speaker: Because here's something, Jackie, that very few people are going to say to you, but I will say it now.
Speaker: The price we pay for medicine keeping us alive longer and keeping a higher quality of life, you know, getting stent in instead of having a heart attack.
Speaker: I mean, little things that we can do mean that it's taking longer and it's harder to die.
Speaker: Everything has a price.
Speaker: That is the price.
Speaker: So everybody's suffering a little bit more.
Speaker: You know, the family watching us, us for being fixed for the things that would kill us.
Speaker: So adding to that is just too much.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: I'm glad I could talk about something joyful on your show today.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The joyful part is now matters.
Speaker: Like now matters.
Speaker: And if we can deal with this and put it behind us, I believe it opens up.
Speaker: Well, we know I just read it the day I gave a talk last week.
Speaker: The Atlantic came out with an article that said talking about and planning end of life means, again, a study.
Speaker: that you will live a happier life.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because you don't have this weight of the unknown on you.
Speaker: And there's a lot of reasons for that.
Speaker: Having the conversation makes you value the now.
Speaker: And that's what for me, being with all these people who went through the end of life, taught me that every single moment matters.
Speaker: And I'm a little OCD about that.
Speaker: but it does.
Speaker: I think it's true.
Speaker: It's the people who recognize that, you know, you don't get out of life alive.
Speaker: The ones that are, that are enjoying it the most.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: They're worrying about when they're going to die.
Speaker: It means that they've accepted that today, you know, the present is the time to be enjoying.
Speaker: No, that's exactly right.
Speaker: Don't wallow in what happened before.
Speaker: Don't worry about what might or might not happen in the future.
Speaker: That's exactly right.
Speaker: That,
Speaker: I learned the only thing that happens in my future is the thing I didn't think about anyway.
Speaker: So there isn't a lot of point worrying.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So what is the one piece of advice that you'd like to give to people that they, that you'd like them to go away with from this today?
Speaker: That's a great question.
Speaker: So I think maybe that,
Speaker: every moment is a gift.
Speaker: And I think that we are leaving our legacy in every moment that we spend.
Speaker: So every time I meet someone, every time I talk to someone, every time how I treat people is the legacy I leave.
Speaker: It's the footprint I leave.
Speaker: So it's for me, it's important to leave one of kindness to recognize that it's a struggle for all of us, you know?
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: In my head, I'm like, yeah, well, what about that road rage?
Speaker: But it's a whole other story.
Speaker: But yeah, who do I want to be?
Speaker: Who do you want to be?
Speaker: Who do you want?
Speaker: How do you want to be remembered?
Speaker: Who do you want to be as you walk through this life?
Speaker: Because you are living your story, you know, and I think it matters.
Speaker: That's beautiful.
Speaker: And that ties into one of the chapters in your book about writing, planning your celebration of life and writing how you want things to be.
Speaker: I think if we spent a little bit of time, I've talked about this before, if we spent a little bit of time thinking about what we want people to say about us when we're gone, it might change how we act now.
Speaker: A hundred percent.
Speaker: You know, I found a little tool that works for me.
Speaker: You get up in the morning.
Speaker: I mean, I'm an entrepreneur in my own business.
Speaker: I do a lot of different things.
Speaker: And I get up thinking I need to do this, this, and this.
Speaker: If I turn it over to the universe and say, let me get out of my own way and be the best version of me that I can be.
Speaker: I found that, kitty's back.
Speaker: I found that so many things open up that I couldn't have even dreamed of.
Speaker: You know, because if I have my eyes on a path
Speaker: I'm missing everything that's outside of that.
Speaker: So, yeah, keeping open and I think, you know, giving ourselves grace and other people grace.
Speaker: Jeez, if we could just do that, I think that's a world changer.
Speaker: I think you're right.
Speaker: So I'm going to put all your links in the show notes.
Speaker: Your website is bestconflictsolutions.com.
Speaker: Is that the best place for people to get in touch with you?
Speaker: Yeah, my email, just email me.
Speaker: That's the easiest.
Speaker: I'm on all social media.
Speaker: I get a lot of stuff through LinkedIn, but I ask people, like they'll keep communicating through LinkedIn.
Speaker: It's best to email me at kim at bestconflictsolutions.com.
Speaker: I'm happy to give, if anybody just has questions or, you know, wants to know maybe what a next step they could seek is, I don't give legal advice, but I'm happy to give 15 minutes of just listening and, you know, seeing if conflict management or mediation is right for you or just listen.
Speaker: So just feel free to reach out.
Speaker: Perfect.
Speaker: I'll put your email in the show notes as well then.
Speaker: Something kind of fun that I love doing as I've been I do have a online PDF that's a group study for book groups going through this book.
Speaker: That's a breakdown of week by week.
Speaker: And I will come.
Speaker: And if you're doing it on Zoom, if you're doing it live, obviously I can't.
Speaker: But I've come in to do a chapter to sit in with a group, which has been just so much fun.
Speaker: to be with people reading the book and just talk about whatever chapter they want to talk about, you know, that's a great idea.
Speaker: I love doing that.
Speaker: So I'm happy to do that.
Speaker: If anyone is interested in that as well.
Speaker: Perfect.
Speaker: Well, thank you so much for being with me today, Kim.
Speaker: I've really, really enjoyed the conversation.
Speaker: And I thought your book was fabulous.
Speaker: I think it's something that everybody should read.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Jackie, if you could write that on my Amazon review, I would appreciate that.
Speaker: I will.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Well, thank you.
Speaker: It's been a pleasure.
Speaker: And that's it for this episode of Beyond Retirement.
Speaker: Thank you so much for hanging out with me.
Speaker: I hope you enjoyed it.
Speaker: To check out the video interviews, please go to my YouTube channel at bit.ly forward slash beyond retirement.
Speaker: That's B-I-T dot L-Y forward slash beyond retirement.
Speaker: Be sure to subscribe so you won't miss any new episodes.
