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Annual Performance Review with Chris Webster - Ep 88
361 Plays4 years ago
It's that time of the year again, Archaeology Podcast Network Director Chris Webster joins the lads for their annual "Performance Review". This episode doesn't cover much archaeology content but how the ongoing pandemic has affected the APN, what 2022 holds for the network, and how this podcast has been performing over the past year. Now, the annual review wouldn't be complete without Chris roasting Carlton, Connor, and David over their podcasting "ticks".
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Transcript
Introduction to Episode 88 and Hosts
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network.
00:00:14
Speaker
Welcome to episode 88 of a life and ruins podcast, where you investigate the careers of those living life and ruins. I'm your host Carlton Gover. And I'm joined by my co-host Connor John. And today we have special guest David Howe. Hello. And the man who makes the magic happen of the APN for a yearly review slash roast, Chris Webster. So very excited to have him on. We will have to slam Tristan Boyle because we've been bugging him for two months to be on this. And he, uh,
00:00:44
Speaker
Doesn't answer Slack. Get them on Discord, though. I've got Tristan in a glass right here. So, you know, some good scotch whiskey. You know what they say? Not gonna do it. Do we have his email that our listeners can spam him with? Oh, I always say if you have hate mail, send it to tristan at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com. So please send him hate mail for not showing up to our
00:01:13
Speaker
scheduled recording.
Podcast Growth and Listener Engagement Discussion
00:01:15
Speaker
Because he was, he was for a while wanting to be on the show and we had that little tidbit like a couple, like a three or four months ago where we made a Tristan joke and he got a recording saying threatened to break Connor's legs in a very like Peaky blinders fashion. Nice. So yeah, Tristan at archaeology podcast network.com. Please voice your concerns.
00:01:37
Speaker
That's right. Excellent. Shaming Tristan aside. It's been a full year since you've been on the podcast last. I don't think 2021 quite went the way we all hoped it would. Could you, would you please? Start it off strong in DC.
00:01:53
Speaker
Yeah. Very strong January 6th, right? I think we have a podcast-wise of it. Already lost control. Chris, how has the APN, the archaeology podcast network been doing this past year in terms of overall numbers and kind of your productivity in the private sector? Yeah, absolutely. So our hosting service, Megaphone, allows us to see
00:02:23
Speaker
you know, time periods, and then it shows us the percentage percentage increase over the previous time period. And as of the day of this recording mid December of 2021, we're at 657,204 downloads for 2021. And it says, I almost don't believe this, but it says it's 57% more than the previous period. But I think
00:02:48
Speaker
I'm not sure exactly where that percentage comes from, because I feel like we hit pretty close to 500,000 last year, but I'd have to look at it specifically. But either way, we kind of hockey-sticked a little bit sometime over the summer. And I'm not a hundred percent certain why, because all the podcasts, including the network feed and just like the numbers as a whole, started shooting up in higher percentages than they have in the past. Like I said, sometime around.
00:03:11
Speaker
I think it was July or August, and they just continued to rise. All the podcasts, even ones that, to be honest, don't produce very often, are up on their numbers month over month, every single month that we've been doing this. And a more important metric for me, especially for advertising, is monthly downloads. And as an example, we broke 60,000, I think, around June, monthly downloads across the whole network. And that was a pretty big number, because we'd spent a lot of time in the 50,000s.
00:03:39
Speaker
And now in November, the last month I have solid numbers for, we were at about 89,000 downloads. And that was a massive percentage increase from the middle of the summer. So I don't know if more and more people are just finding out about us or going through the back catalog or what the case may be, because that's not unique listeners necessarily. That's total downloads. You know, so one person could listen to a single show 89,000 times and that'd be great for us.
00:04:04
Speaker
but we wouldn't know the difference, right? So, but honestly, it doesn't really matter. It's how many sets of years you're getting to, even if it's the same set more than once. So I don't know what's going on, but I'll take it. I'm really enjoying that. That kind of rise cause it allows us to start looking at some other serious things to keep this network up and running. I think you had mentioned this before. There's usually like a drop off after field season, right? So that's what this would almost this uptick occurred right before then. And it doesn't really fit into these normal trends.
00:04:33
Speaker
it doesn't. And sometimes the drop off for the drop off kind of happens a little bit during field season, to be honest, for some shows like the CRM archaeology podcast drops off over the center summer sometimes, because I think people just
00:04:46
Speaker
don't have time to listen to the show, you know, they're out doing fieldwork. Unless I have heard people, I don't know who's subjecting people to this, but people like listen to the show in the crew truck on the way out to a site. And I'm like, probably should just put on music because nobody wants to, you know, pay attention to something. But either way, I don't know what the deal is. Usually that show and maybe a couple others that are more industry focused will, you know, slow down a little bit over the summer. But like I said, that just didn't happen this year. So yeah, you're right. I have no idea what's going on.
00:05:14
Speaker
I
Audience Recognition and Feedback
00:05:15
Speaker
think it's tied partly to at some point when you start hitting a certain capacity, more and more people start to hear you, right? You get served up higher on certain services, whatever the case may be, the algorithms start to place you a little more favorably. And then you have that combined with
00:05:32
Speaker
people, a lot more people working from home and starting to get into stride on that and getting back into podcasts from 2020 when they listened to podcasts when they were commuting or to the gym or something like that, you know, at the gym and they just weren't doing that anymore and they're still not. So there was people figuring that back out and then also podcasts are just getting more popular every year and I think we're just, you know, enjoying some of those numbers as a whole.
00:05:56
Speaker
I definitely get a lot of feedback that people are listening in the field. I heard that they're on a survey listening to it. Someone mentioned the truck, but I agreed that it'd be very weird to just...
00:06:08
Speaker
Well, I guess we listened to Harry Potter and our field seasons. Like we listened to that there, but we'd all, we know the story so you can talk over it, you know? Yeah. I guess there. And then I think you're right. Like it's just like one person's like, Hey, have you heard of life and ruins? And then like, they moved to a new crew and they bring it to them. And then it just kind of spreads or any show on the APN really. For sure. Whatever your favorite show is. Yeah. You tend to tell people about it. So I guess we're, we're benefiting from that because of more and more people that tell, you know, it's a logarithmic increase.
00:06:37
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I, I mentioned this on, I think last week's recording where, uh, at this, this past planes conference, a lot of the students were coming up to me, said they listened to ruins. And my advisor Doug was like, what? Randomly, you know, Wichita state students or CSU, of course they were coming up like, man, we love the podcast. I was like, Oh, wow. And all these motor archeologists from the planes are like, what are they talking about? Why is anyone listening to this idiot? Hey, has anyone,
00:07:07
Speaker
at a conference more than likely, would this would happen in a conference setting? Has anyone recognized one of you for your voice? Like you get that recognition when they turn around because they hear you talking and you're like in the book room or something like that. Has that happened to you guys yet? I'm too short. I don't speak in complete sentences. So now I just had the one in person conference for the past two years. True. Yeah.
00:07:35
Speaker
That's true. I remember the first time it happened to me. It was right after we, I want to say it was the same year maybe or the year after we started the CRM archaeology podcast. I was in Waikiki for the SAAs and
00:07:49
Speaker
I was standing there. I was rooming with a friend of mine who was also on the show, Russell Allene Willems. He was on a long time ago, one of the early ones. And this is the CRMR podcast and we're standing in line at like a convenience store, describing some waters on our walk to the, to the conference venue. And we're just having a conversation and the guy in front of me turns around and said, are you guys on the CRMR theology podcast? And I was like, yes, that's weird. Just talked about it.
00:08:15
Speaker
Yeah. I'm looking forward to SAAs where me, Connor and David will all be together.
Balancing Criticism and Entertainment Style
00:08:20
Speaker
And I imagine that's where we'll have more interaction. Yeah. I'm going to get so much hate. Just hide me. And then, yeah, it's just, I don't know. It's weird. Cause I do a lot of people like listen to the show, like in our field. And I guess it's cause it's like,
00:08:41
Speaker
I don't know, Carlton Connor, if you'd agree. You guys both took drinks at the exact same time, at least on my bandwidth. But yeah, like we're the only people, like it's like a generational thing. Like we're like the millennial, like archeology generation. I guess, are you a millennial too, Chris? I think I missed it by a little bit. Yeah. I don't think I, I don't think I'll technically qualify.
00:09:03
Speaker
Okay. But yeah, it's like we're not old professors and we're not like fresh undergrads. So we're like people in the field that they would like look to for advice, which I guess helps us spread pretty well. Yeah. Nice.
00:09:15
Speaker
But you could say the same about like the dirt and obviously the CRM art podcast as well. I don't think, I feel like the APN has, you don't have a ton of that older generation voices. I mean, I think obviously with the rock art podcast, he's more in that generation. He is. And the weird thing is the archeology show, since my wife and I kind of rebooted that show earlier this year,
00:09:44
Speaker
You know, that show, like some of the others on the network has, it's been a concept show and it's changed hosts several times. And my last co-host before my wife was on, I mean, she was in grad school and during the show, like had twins, her first children. And I'm like.
00:09:59
Speaker
Yeah, this isn't going to last for too long. She was super cool. Her name was April. Actually, you guys know her father probably, Whittaker, the guy who writes the books and her mom. Yeah, John Whittaker and her mom is Catherine Camp Whittaker who wrote Life in the Pueblo. That's a book I had in my cultural anthropology classes in my undergrad. We had both of them on the show. That was cool. But no, she just like got totally over tasked on stuff and the show kind of languished for a little bit. And then my wife and I picked it back up and
00:10:27
Speaker
But we've had some really good responses to that. And we've got a handful of people, including one guy named James, who is a NASA engineer who he writes us after almost every single show with like his own references to things and commentary and all kinds of stuff. And I'm like, that's super cool. So we're definitely getting some more feedback.
00:10:48
Speaker
Fraction on that and we have a handful of people on our members only slack team as well that are very active one guy who's over in Belgium who I might actually go get to visit in February, that's another story and And a few other people that are just really active on our members only channel. So I'm really enjoying
00:11:05
Speaker
one thing that the higher numbers gives us, which is a higher percentage of people willing to engage because that is always like less than 1% of people will engage with your podcast, whether it's, you know, a comment on iTunes or more specifically an email or something on your socials. When you look at your total numbers, it's usually a really small number of people that are in a position to do that. And it's not that they don't want to engage, it's just that they're listening while they're driving and then they forget, you know, or something like that. So, but it's cool.
00:11:33
Speaker
I was just at a friend's birthday party at Lake House for the weekend, and two of them have a Dungeons and Dragons podcast. Carlton, I believe you listened to that one. The RPG radio show, shout out. But they were like, oh, you have a podcast, too? Like, I was a friend of a friend, and I was like, yeah, I got one with my friends. And he was like, oh, what's the link? I'll drop your review. And I was like, thank you. You get it. It's so hard to get reviews from people. And I gave him one. They gave us one.
00:11:59
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. No, you guys are really killing it with the, uh, uh, telling people to rate and review your podcast. Cause I was actually my brother in law here. He was getting ready to drive back to, uh, we're in Charlotte, North Carolina, and he lives in Asheville. Actually, they've got a house here and a house there. And he goes up there at work on the, on the, during the week. So.
00:12:18
Speaker
He's like, Oh, I listen to podcasts. And I was like, Oh, you should really listen to the archaeology show. I think you really like it. So I grabbed his phone and subscribed into it. And I noticed I haven't I don't look at iTunes a lot, to be honest. And I noticed that we had a
Audience Engagement and Demographics
00:12:31
Speaker
pretty more reviews or ratings than I thought we would. And then I started looking at some of the other shows. And I looked at your guys's. And you had I think at the time, this was just like an hour ago, it was like 81 or 80.
00:12:42
Speaker
There's never as many reviews because reviews are harder to do. People don't want to do it, but you have like 80 ratings and that's super cool for a niche podcast. You know, that's, um, I feel like that's pretty good, uh, to be honest, because we've never really focused on that kind of stuff. And when you ask people to do it, then typically they will, you know, ratings, easy to do. You just pull up your whatever podcast app you're looking at and just hit the button. Right. Right. We used to be at a solid four, three.
00:13:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's like part of my one of my neuroses is I check on those things a lot just because I get elected you can't
00:13:23
Speaker
I can't. I looked at the archaeology show one and there was one that's like the featured review from like two years ago when April was on. And it's like, oh, the grad student is quiet and the host is nice and loud. I'm like, thanks. Appreciate that. That's good constructive criticism. And then one from July of this year was like, no substance, stop listening.
00:13:45
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like, they, most people have to take the time out of the day to like, notice if they like the show, they don't take the time out of the day to say they like it. But if they don't like it, they like take time out of their life to like, let you know, as if I don't like read it. I don't know. It's like, it's constructive criticism. Sometimes other times it's just like, they want to be a dick. Listen, it's, even if it's unconstructive and just hateful, like I appreciate the engagement.
00:14:12
Speaker
Exactly. You're only helping the algorithm by commenting, so thank you. I feel like we as a podcast try to take that criticism with a grain of salt in as many ways as possible because we obviously have a brand and a way that we do stuff. We want to improve and get better
00:14:31
Speaker
and reach more people, but there's also part of us that's just going to be three bros who are going to giggle. That's where I'm at because whenever I see a comment, and I think one of the ones I saw, I looked at a bunch of shows, I can't remember which one I was on.
00:14:48
Speaker
One of the ones I saw was like, uh, you know, less, less chitchat and more substance or something like that, or get to the show. Or it was like, it was like, you know, they didn't like the show format in some way or another. And again, I can't remember what show was on, but they're like, get to the point kind of thing.
00:15:02
Speaker
And I'm like, you know what, there's 9 billion people on this planet and I'll find the people that like this format at some point. Like, I don't need to change my show for you. Go find a show that you like rather than telling me how to do my show. That's kind of how podcasting is. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, I was talking with the hosts of the dirt when I did my interview with them.
00:15:21
Speaker
And we were kind of just chatting in the in-betweens and we were just kind of talking about feedback we've gotten. And that's kind of like, the dirt is one of the flagship shows of the APA. And like one of the same, like the criticisms we always get, it's like, they're just a bunch of bros at a boy's sleepover. And then the hosts of the dirt get, they're just a bunch of girls at a girl's sleepover and like, and they just girl out and it's like, okay, so clearly, you know,
00:15:46
Speaker
You just can't please everybody. Now some people tune in and they want an academic paper and other people tune in and they want to hear people who enjoy talking to each other, talking about a subject and sometimes interviewing somebody. You know what I mean? Like you just, you, you find your audience. You don't, uh, you don't, I don't, I feel like you don't tune your show for your audience. Your audience will find the show based on, you know, they just, it's a match. You know what I mean? So we need podcast Tinder so they can swipe them.
00:16:13
Speaker
Well, I think, but we've taken criticism and changed stuff. Like we've tried to cut down the cursing and things like that. So we've, we do take things. Well, I have, I have my opinions on the cursing and maybe we can talk about that in segment two if you want. Yeah.
00:16:39
Speaker
And I think on that note, we'll be right back with episode 88 of Life and Ruins Podcast. Please be sure to rate and review the podcast during these sweet, sweet sounds of Chris Webster's advertisements. Welcome back to episode 88 of Life and Ruins Podcast. We're still here with our overlord, Chris Webster. And we're just kind of doing the yearly review of the APN and a slight roast of our
Monetization and Media Expansion Plans
00:17:03
Speaker
show.
00:17:03
Speaker
Not much archaeology talk this time around for those that are listening, but for those that actually care, we're back. So we ended the last segment. Chris, you wanted to tell us something. What was that something? So you mentioned the feedback you get from some comments and you reduced some of the swearing because of it, but
00:17:24
Speaker
I don't know. I got to tell you, I feel like because I know how your show used to sound before you did that, I feel like you guys are holding back a little bit and, and taking out the swearing. Now, Carlton, you did drop the F-bomb like every five seconds on the previous incarnations of the show. Maybe that was a hair much, but it was, uh, you won't show a season one and not take it.
00:17:49
Speaker
But I'm just saying it's, um, I don't know, to me, it feels like it was holding back a little bit. And to be honest, we didn't have a lot of shows on the APN that were of your guys's style. And it's one of the things that I really liked when you guys first came onto the APN was you were, you were really different. You were funny and entertaining, but also educational, you know, and engaging. And I feel like some of our shows were.
00:18:14
Speaker
You know, some of our shows are a little too serious. I mean, one of the things I always get on the CRM Mark podcast guys is they mute their mics every time they're not talking. And I'm like, this is a panel unmute your mic and interrupt me. You know, I want to be interrupted. I want to be, I want to have a, I want to have more of a casual conversation about these topics. And you guys do that when you don't have a guest. And when you have a guest, it's like a friend of yours who do that, but when you don't have a guest, it's just the three of you.
00:18:37
Speaker
I feel like that's a really good dynamic that is a good addition to the APN. Now it's one of the reasons I reignited the archaeology show with my wife because I feel like we have that kind of rapport sometimes on the show and I like that more casual yet educational, entertaining environment. Not that swearing is the only way you guys can do that.
00:19:01
Speaker
I do feel that I can sense you holding back a little bit. And that's a thing, but either way. I think when it's us, I think you're right. It's fine because we're not advertising that to things. But when Dr. Miller was on, the people were like, hey, we can't share this to the department. So I get that. But on the other episodes, why not?
00:19:29
Speaker
Yeah. And that's, to be honest, that's a really good point because I've been contacted, I don't know, dozens, dozens and dozens of times. I didn't even know how many times over the seven year history of the network and the 10 year history of podcasting by not only like public radio stations, like really small public radio stations that just use podcasts as content when they have nothing else. And teachers at like from high school on up to college teachers saying,
00:19:54
Speaker
hey, can I use one of your episodes in class? Can I assign that? And I'm like, oh, that's super cool. Yes, go ahead. And for every one that asks permission, I assume there's 10 that just do it. Because that's just how it works. This is a free thing that's available on the internet. Why would you even ask me? I appreciate the ask, just so I know about it. But I assume that other people do that. So you're totally right. From that standpoint, if you want your show to be more
00:20:21
Speaker
educational than an assignable in class, then that's a thing. But I feel like you just tag the shows appropriately. You know what I mean? Like, we can mark certain shows explicit. We don't have to mark the entire channel explicit. We can mark one episode explicit. And then we're covered by iTunes legally. But also, people would see that and maybe just know that that's not a thing. And even maybe put something in the show notes and be like, hey, this is a more educational show or this is a more just us chatting kind of show and give people a heads up.
00:20:50
Speaker
But yeah, yeah, I think, you know, we started off with like, welcome to a life in ruins. This is going to be a episode, you know.
00:21:02
Speaker
I think that's a good idea to have the different we try to like conceptually divide our shows into different types like interviews, you know, topical kind of stuff and then us going off on tangents about llamas and how cute they are and how they or how the babies look like devils and stuff like that. So we try to like conceptually think of it like that. And maybe that's a better way to kind of capture our essence and not change it. Yeah.
00:21:28
Speaker
Speaking of capturing our essence, one thing that we've noticed, we've talked about this on the show a couple of times. I know, Chris, you've probably caught us mentioning to their listeners, if they're listening on the All Shows feed to subscribe to our channel so we can at least see where the numbers are coming from, just looking at the All Shows feed now for the month of, I think it was October, we had over 10,000 downloads from that alone. And I think from our show, we were at what, like 5,000?
00:21:59
Speaker
I'm looking at your November numbers. Oh no, I'm not looking. I'm looking at the full year, but yeah, I think you're right. I think it was like 5,000. So total like 15,000. That's insane. I thought the all shows feed was maybe bumping us up by like two or 3000. I only did the top, the 32 episodes. There's still like 30 more that have less than a hundred, but that's terrifying. Like that's absolutely terrifying. Now that I'm realizing we're getting 15,000 downloads minimum.
00:22:28
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and let's let's a month. Yeah. A month. Oh, that's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And, and just so listeners know the, the, the way that we
00:22:41
Speaker
produce the all shows network feed. If you happen to be listening on that, if you happen to be listening to whatever's called the archeology podcast network feed, my original intent behind that was really, I was just copying, uh, the twit network. If you guys ever heard of that, it's on, uh, YouTube, but, uh, it's technology. Uh, what is it tech, uh, with interesting something that I don't know this week in tech, that's what it is, the twit network.
00:23:03
Speaker
They have a whole bunch of different shows, but one of the reasons reasons I found certain shows on that network that I liked was because they have like a channel that they just drop everything in real time on. So when I started the APN, I was like, I want to have that same thing more as a discovery vehicle. So if you don't like certain shows, but you do like other shows, cause we have a lot of stuff. Sometimes it's not somebody's cup of tea. Sometimes it is.
00:23:25
Speaker
And if you don't like a show, great, either skip it or just go subscribe to the shows that you like. But for some reason, a lot of people really like the network feed and it's, it's comprises like half of our downloads for the month across the entire network. So when I say we have 85,000 downloads, like 40,000 plus of those is the network feed. And that's, that's not trivial. You know, that's, that's pretty significant. It's spread across like
00:23:51
Speaker
I don't know, 20 shows in our back catalog, but, uh, 20 different shows, but, uh, mostly the ones that are producing are the ones producing those downloads, uh, currently, but we still get hits on stuff that hasn't, you know, produced in five years. So. That's pretty cool. I'm just blown away by the numbers right now. Like this is, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm kind of scared.
00:24:13
Speaker
Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm really sorry. Yeah. And if we take that into account, looking at just the life and ruins numbers for the calendar year to date mid December, just to the life and ruins feed, you guys have had 50,522 downloads. So if you extrapolate out for the year,
00:24:38
Speaker
Yeah. If you extrapolate the network feed, you're probably well over a hundred thousand. So for the year, I'm never getting a job. I wish this paid by the way, left. If you would like to get your message out to these 150,000 people, contact me, Chris at archeology podcast network.com for advertising
Accessibility and Cultural Sensitivity in Podcasting
00:25:04
Speaker
rates. They're very affordable. So you knew that. Yeah.
00:25:09
Speaker
David sunflower seeds, banana block, anyone, anyone, literally anyone. Yeah. So to be honest, exactly right. I mean, and to be honest, we
00:25:25
Speaker
We would love to be totally listener supported through our membership program. It's 7.99 a month and we don't charge more for adding new stuff. In fact, we dropped the cost of the membership like a year and a half ago. It was three different levels of like five, 10 and $20. And we just dropped the 10 and 20 and raised the five and it's 7.99 a month now. And we are pretty committed to never raising that again, even if we just add just a ton more content and a lot more stuff.
00:25:55
Speaker
We're just like, listen, if Netflix can do it, we can do it. We just need a bigger audience, right? And we need more people to become members. So if we were completely member supported and these guys were paid to podcast through membership fees, then we'd have no ads on our shows. That's one thing I'm fully committed to. But the fact about podcasting is you have to have advertising if you want to
00:26:13
Speaker
if you want to stay up there. If we were all doing our podcast individually, then we probably wouldn't worry about it too much. But running a network, we do all the editing. We have the hosting service. We do all the stuff like Zencaster that we're recording on now. And that stuff comes with a pretty high cost, not only in time, but in money as well. So podcasting isn't free, despite what some people think, if you want to do it the right way.
00:26:40
Speaker
So, I think this might be a good time to talk about maybe what is on the horizon for the APN and or other media companies that might be being created as part of that. Do you mind speaking about that?
00:26:53
Speaker
Indeed, indeed. Well, I can tell you two things and this might be more relevant to your, uh, APN network feed listeners, but we are, it looks like there's nothing set in stone just yet, but it looks like we are reigniting what used to be called the arche fantasies podcast and is now temporarily called the pseudo archeology podcast because Sarah, the former host of that show,
00:27:19
Speaker
took her brand off the network and continued on with it. She maintained the Archaeological Fantasies brand well before she brought the podcast to the APN. We let her take that, but we have her back catalog and we still have the feed too. Weirdly, shows in that feed, nothing's been in there for almost three years, still get high numbers for the month. People love going back to that back catalog and just listening to those shows.
00:27:45
Speaker
We now have somebody, it's another host on one of our other shows, want to reignite that. And I think he's going to do it in the new year. He's a college professor in Southern California and he has some pretty good credentials and I think it's going to be a good show. He's very engaging and entertaining and I think it's going to be a good one to reignite. I also talked to somebody that David introduced me to and
00:28:11
Speaker
Yeah. And again, she's still thinking about it after I laid down the framework for what it would take to do a podcast, but we might be doing a more forensics style podcast, which would be super cool in the new year as well. Probably sometime a little later in the first quarter, but that would be pretty neat.
00:28:32
Speaker
Now, what Connor was really referring to was something that Tristan and I have been talking about for years now, and we somewhat formalized over the summer, and that is cultural media. And where that name comes from is, well, let me first talk about what it is. So we've talked about doing other stuff outside of archaeology. We've talked about for years changing the name of the archaeology podcast network to something more inclusive to other facets of anthropology.
00:28:57
Speaker
because we want to include other shows that aren't just archaeology. And to be honest, a lot of our shows kind of aren't archaeology.
00:29:04
Speaker
They're more cultural. They're more something else and only kind of side related to archaeology. But the archaeology podcast network name kind of pigeonholes us into that type of show, which is fine. So we've wanted to start other networks. We've wanted to get into other media, video. I run a podcasting company where I produce podcasts for other people. We've wanted to offer that as a service to other people as well that
00:29:28
Speaker
just taking our expertise in podcasting, maybe they don't want to have an APN show, but they need to, you know, they want to do a podcast. So we would help them in production, uh, just like we do here, but they would obviously own their own show. So we wanted a venue around that stuff, more live events, things like that. And we came up with cultural media and cultural. So you can go to culturalmedia.com and see our, uh, our brand new logos for that. There's not a whole lot of more substance on there, but, uh, and that's intentional right now, but
00:29:56
Speaker
the name comes from and the logo. We needed something that was
00:30:02
Speaker
not culturally appropriating anyone and not specific to a country, region, time period.
Monetization Strategies and Network Goals
00:30:09
Speaker
We wanted something that was basically undefinable from a certain culture standpoint. So cultura with a K is the Esperanto word for culture. And Esperanto is, of course, a made up language that no one lays claim to. And it's kind of dead, to be honest. I think people speak it for fun maybe, but you can learn it on Duolingo.
00:30:31
Speaker
Aside from that, it's a party trick. So it just so happens that Kulturo, if you type it into Google, is also the word for culture in quite a few languages. And a variation on the word Kulturo is also a word for culture there. So we wanted something that was more broad and that's what we came up with. And then our designer, who also designed the APM logo,
00:30:52
Speaker
we gave her some thoughts and ideas. I wanted something that was, you know, slightly futuristic. I didn't want something that looked like it was in the past. Nobody uses papyrus as a font anymore because I wanted to represent our future going forward and the present and the past. So I wanted something that was sort of new and something that brought in humanity too. So I was thinking something with like a DNA strand or something, something we all share, but it's indefinable from a, from an ethnic standpoint. Right.
00:31:18
Speaker
So, you know, and, and, and sorry, Carlton, I tried to get an Indian headdress in on the Oh, but it just didn't work. You know, it was just like, was it a white woman? Oh, was it like, yeah, I was burning. Yeah.
00:31:34
Speaker
No, so that wasn't going to work obviously. But so she took this like abstract picture of like DNA that she ended up with. She gave us like 10 designs and they were all super cool. But the one we stuck with was this like abstract representation of DNA in a font that she made up. So I'm pretty happy with that. So sick. And yeah, and where we're going to start with that in January.
00:31:54
Speaker
We may still start with some of this, but we're definitely dialing it back a little bit. We plan to do a lot more live events with Cultural right off the bat. To be honest, the Forensics podcast, without strictly naming it, would probably be on its own new network, a more biological anthropology podcast or physical anthropology, I think we're calling it these days.
00:32:15
Speaker
Uh, so that would be on that kind of network and we'd seek out more shows for that. But to be honest, I think in the backwards, it's bio, and we dropped physical and it's bio.
00:32:25
Speaker
Oh, I can't remember. I couldn't remember which one was dropped. Yeah. Yeah. You're totally right. And she said the phys-anth society just changed their whole name to, to bio-anth. Yeah, totally. There you go. There you go. So anyway, it just, as I was looking at the sheer volume of work involved in the stuff that I wanted to do coming up in the next quarter, I realized that it was largely me again, sort of promoting that.
00:32:50
Speaker
and wanting to get it done. And I was like, we just simply don't have enough people who have have two of two of you guys, Carl and both Connor, both volunteered to help out with this, which is great. But to be honest, we just didn't have enough people that were owners, so to speak.
00:33:06
Speaker
that wanted to step up, that's really what I was looking for because I don't want to own an aspect of one of these things. I don't want to be the person in charge of scheduling and making sure it continues going. I needed people that were dedicated to doing that, but it's hard to find that if you're not paying them, which I totally understand. And with another big advertising deal on the horizon, it just made me, for the APN,
00:33:28
Speaker
it made me kind of refocus and want to focus on really fleshing out monetizing of the APN while slowly maybe introducing some more live events through Coltero and just dialing it back a little bit. So we're not dialing it back a hundred percent, but just maybe 80%.
00:33:43
Speaker
Yeah, so expect that stuff and we will obviously advertise that here on our show if we're going to be involved. Yeah, and on that note, we'll end segment two. Can I just say something? Sorry, I'm still screwing around with the six nail sheet and it has all of our episodes. We've gotten over 70,000 downloads on our show just from all shows feed.
00:34:05
Speaker
We're well over 100,000 downloads total. And this is Carlton paying attention to the episode at hand. And on that note, this is episode 88 of the Life and Ruins podcast with Connor, Jonathan and David Ian Howe. Carlton has stepped out for this segment and we'll be back.
00:34:23
Speaker
And we're back with episode 88 of a life ruins podcast. Please be sure to rate and review the podcast if you haven't done so already. So with this segment, we want to start off with, wait a minute, wait a minute, Carlton, don't you need to take a hit of your vape pen? We want to start off Chris's critiques style and we started a little early. So continue roasting us, please.
00:34:51
Speaker
Well, you know, I'm just saying it's a, it's like editing Darth Vader sometimes when you forget to mute.
00:35:07
Speaker
Did you hear you obviously heard Shane's episode with Jesse tune with the whiskey glass Yeah, that was beautiful we love you, you know just as as podcasters I want to say if you guys can hear it everyone can hear it and
00:35:27
Speaker
Oh, I heard somebody's snap. Like he was mid talking. I was like, Hey, stop. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot. It's a lot. No, I mean, to be honest, you guys, uh, you guys don't do too bad of a job. You're, you're getting better and better at it. Uh, you know, you, you screw up Connor Connor's audio every single time for the first episode, you know, cause his mic's not picked up and like, nobody notices. That's how obviously how much I contribute to this podcast is that
00:35:55
Speaker
Nobody notices if I'm there or not. Cool. Yeah. The five words you say in segment one don't come over very well. I'll realize midway through the segment and then I'm just like, Oh, wait, like one of our mics isn't working. And then I'll notice that my, like right now my little sound bars are way smaller than everyone else's, but you say you can hear me. Okay. So then I'm like freaking out for 45 minutes and I'm like, Oh, it's not gonna sound good. And then like, yeah, it just turns into a whole thing midway through the segment.
00:36:24
Speaker
Midway through the segment, it's midway through the month and I think you just realized you were on a podcast. The calendar invite today said 2.30 PM. It reminded me at two and I was like, well, I'm just not making that. And then Carl was like, we're on it at 4.30. And I was like, Oh, all right. So mountain time, I guess my alert said Eastern. Oh, well.
00:36:53
Speaker
I just haven't been on at all. I was almost doing the math earlier. I'm trying to figure out many episodes you haven't been on. It's been a minute. I came on Garcia's for like three minutes and then my internet just died. No, it's been since November.
00:37:08
Speaker
Yeah, it's only halfway through December. Your social, your social game is on point though. I like, I like like the wanted poster around David or the signal. Yeah.
Social Media and Personal Projects
00:37:22
Speaker
That's why one bit of humor that I can bring to the, bring to the show got really good. And Carlton, we got to thank you for that. You initially put the first meme and I was like, guys, we can't be a meme. Oh, all right.
00:37:38
Speaker
I mean, honestly, that's what people, you know, people stop and they laugh about that. And that's one of the, one of the goals from, from entertainers, right? And that's, to be honest, what we all are, even if we want to be educators, we're also entertainers as podcasters and you guys have a really good game on that. And it shows in your socials too. Like your Instagram is, is a lot bigger than most of the shows, you know, and that's, that's really good. If only they would just listen and pay us money, that'd be great.
00:38:01
Speaker
Yeah, you'd be great. I think our podcast Instagram is like halfway to 10K already or more than that. Is it really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think we just kind of stop. I mean, we'll throw the occasional meme up, but we don't. Well, it's just socials are brutal. Yeah. Yeah. Got to keep it going. So many fights with white supremacists like it just kind of got.
00:38:24
Speaker
See, when we're all rich and famous, we'll have social media people for every one of the shows that has to deal with that. We'll say, hey, put up something funny, and then they'll do it, and they have to deal with the backlash. So that's the goal. Wait, you can hire people for that? Oh my god. I think you can. I mean, with enough money, you can hire somebody for anything. Oh god, see?
00:38:42
Speaker
Yeah. I just tell people to go watch David's TikTok at this point. It's like, how come you guys have everything on ruins? I'm like, just go watch David's TikTok. That's where the magic's happening right now. I didn't hear the beginning of that part. Your TikTok is amazing. We're a shadow company that feeds everything to you.
00:39:00
Speaker
The TikTok thing, I put the stupid ass Viking video and I went up like literally like I think a hundred thousand subs like in like a week and I never posted anything like that again. So I was just like, who is this guy on my feed talking about hyenas? It's just like not the same, but it's hard to unfollow people in TikTok until you find them again.
00:39:22
Speaker
So I think it's all it is. It took me a second because I watched your interview with Giannis, why you gave him a bone clone of a hyena. It took me a bit to realize because he was on history hyenas and I was like, ah, this got it. Yeah, that was great. Good. How much did that run you? That's like a hundred, over a hundred dollar model in it. Got a little disc discie County from bone clones, but a little discie County from them is
00:39:48
Speaker
$20 we could do this and I was like, all right, I'll just fucking go get one for my But yeah, I figured I'd be a good token of like hey, thanks you recognize us as you know people
00:40:03
Speaker
I think we shared this, but yeah, go check out David's podcast with Giannis Pappas. Yawny long days. It's definitely not one to put on your department page.
00:40:17
Speaker
Yours was good. It was the comments from all the bros that they just want attention from. It was just like, come on. Someone called me smart Jonah Hill in the comments and I was like, I'm more offended that they don't think Jonah Hill is smart. Anyway, Carlton, you're doing your thing. You're working with something over there, right? I got PBS stuff, but I don't know whenever that's going to get published. The communism?
00:40:43
Speaker
No, the communism, that's just there. The PBS station here runs out of the communism and that's a whole separate story that I want to get into, but just chatting with them about. I was on mushrooms yesterday and I missed all of this conversation. It's a media co-op. So it's this group of people that make productions all over the state who all work in the same spot. They're all funded through grants and contribute and
00:41:11
Speaker
So they used to have a podcast. They used to do podcasts and the upsets and stuff there. So I was just chatting with them about how much it's like a $5,000 buy-in, but this is totally derailing anyways. They'll probably just edit me out of the PBS segment anyways. Nice. Connor, you looked like you were reading something a minute ago, which is shocking because you often do the, uh, the, because you live a life in ruins, what's going on here, but you say it every single time. Like you've never said it before ever.
00:41:40
Speaker
And I'm just wondering, like, are you actually reading that from somewhere? Or is it just like a word jumble and you're trying to make it out? No, so I try to personalize it every single time, but I'm not committed enough to do it ahead of time like I am with my jokes. So it's like, I could prepare
00:41:59
Speaker
and it would sound better and it would even be funny. Wait a minute. You say you're prepared with your jokes. I literally hear pages flipping like when it comes to that segment. Most of the time that's edited out is you're like, Oh no, no, let me do it. What are we doing? No, no, no. They're not prepared. Like those, that's, I love, I love to think that it would be like, it'd be the beautiful thing that is part of it, but I could prepare
00:42:39
Speaker
Um, since you have chosen to live a life that's a life, could you do it in ruins again? I don't know what I'm saying. I don't know what to do with my hands.
00:42:45
Speaker
I can't even remember what I'm supposed to read on the outline every time, but I always mess it up and read the wrong one.
00:42:56
Speaker
I was just telling someone before this that I was chatting with, that this turns into the roast of Connor John and every single year, but that's fine. That's who I am. I'll take the beating. Last year was especially worse. Oh my God.
00:43:13
Speaker
It's shocking that the roast doesn't improve though. It's much like this show. It just stays the same. The start of every episode for two and a half years now.
00:43:34
Speaker
I'll be like, okay, today's the day Carlton keeps the decibel low. And then, oh my God, welcome to a light and ruined podcast every time. And I love it so much. Yeah. Yeah. He blows the intro out every single time. You're like, learn how to Beyonce that shit. Carlton, you got to back away from the mic when you're going to yell into it.
00:43:57
Speaker
It's the rest of it gets fine. I put it on your starter back. That's right. I just try to breathe that energy right at the beginning and just, you know, not, not give it that energy for the rest of the episode. That's right. That's right. I can't think of any roads for you. I mean, you're kind of our boss. I don't know.
00:44:20
Speaker
Yeah. Thanks for doing a good job in editing our stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's, it's me and, and my wife has been an editor as well, but she's been knee deep in finishing up a huge project, helping out with a report that we did. Actually, if it wasn't for her doing this report, our section of the report anyway, then, uh, I wouldn't be able to do it. But, um, yeah, she's going to get back to editing you guys. Hopefully she edits this episode. I don't know. We'll see.
00:44:45
Speaker
Which episode stands out as very frustrating to edit?
00:44:52
Speaker
I usually, I can't think of one in particular, but I'll tell you what, it's usually guest related and that's not a slide on guests. It's just sometimes you get guests, especially in the archeology space that are just like never been on a podcast or in front of a microphone before. And they get very nervous and they're doing different things and they have a lot of vocal crutches, which we try to, when we have a lot of people that say a lot of ums and stammers and things like that, you, you really just can't take out a hundred percent of them. You, we try to take out as many as we can. A lot of the isolated ones, those are,
00:45:22
Speaker
super frustrating to edit. They're great content, but it's just people are nervous. You know what I mean? So it's, I wish everybody could get media training so they could do the other half of their job as an archeologist, which is telling
Future Opportunities and Network Vision
00:45:34
Speaker
people about it. But to be honest, people just get super nervous and they, you know, they don't get it or
00:45:39
Speaker
when the hosts of the show don't recognize that somebody's swirling ice in a glass or tapping the table or their chair is squeaky for an hour. That also gets pretty frustrating. So the chair, I remember the chair.
00:45:53
Speaker
Who's chair? That wasn't my chair, was it? No, it was your guests. It was Kevin. Oh, and he was trimming his nails, too. Oh, but his toenails. Like, here we have the director of the American Indian Museum just leaning back in his chair and clipping his toenails while giving an interview. I mean, I'm so happy he was on the show. Do not get me wrong. I remember that distinction. He was like, is that nail clipper?
00:46:20
Speaker
Nice. Nice. He was cool though. I remember his episode. Yeah. The conversation we had with him in DC was actually, it was probably a little bit more entertaining because we didn't talk archeology at all. He was talking about that football game in more detail with more color. Nice. Nice.
00:46:38
Speaker
But yeah, man, it's been fun for you allowing us to have this show in this space. And it's been fun to see. I never expected Ruins to get as popular as it is. I mean, in comparison on other shows in the APN that were constantly
00:46:54
Speaker
within the past year have been one of the top shows. I mean, the gap between us and the dirt and the archaeology show, it's like 10,000 downloads a month. So that's a leap we got to make at some point, but I think we're in a comfortable third or fourth place.
00:47:11
Speaker
Well, and I think that fits though, right? Like I wouldn't take that negatively because you guys, because you, to be honest, because you do interview academics, you are academics and professionals yourselves. It puts your show into a little bit more of a niche category unless you purposely advertise it to people who are not in that category, right? Hashtags, for example, on socials that are, that are like not archeology hashtags, hashtags that get out to other audiences because
00:47:39
Speaker
And to be honest, I'm just pulling that out of my ass because we don't actually even do that with the archeology show, but our intent for the archeology show is a lay audience. Like we specifically don't talk about overly academic stuff and people comment and criticize us. They say, Hey, I want more in-depth information. I'm like, great, go read a journal article because that's not what this show is about right now. Like this show is about bringing news articles and, and, and people in the news to, you know,
00:48:04
Speaker
to just talk about it as archaeologists, through the lens of people who are in this business, but that are just like you reading these articles that are in the news right now. That's what we try to do. But the dirt kind of does a similar thing. They really unpack it for more of a lay audience.
00:48:20
Speaker
I think that there's just more of those people than people in the industry. And that's just a fact. So you guys, if we want to look at the numbers a different way, are the number one podcast on the APN for more of a professional audience, you know, you get more downloads than the Sierra Mark podcast. You get more downloads than rock art, argue animals, heritage voices. The other shores that are, I would say are more, are more niche. So, but it's up to you.
00:48:47
Speaker
To be honest, I wouldn't say change, but maybe start unpacking things a little more. If you wanted to reach that wider audience, if one of your guests says something that is, if they say the word paleoecological and you just let it slide, nobody knows what that means unless they took anthropology classes or they studied this kind of thing. And on the archaeology show, I don't let that kind of stuff slide. I might say the word, but I'm going to define it and tell people a little about it.
00:49:15
Speaker
I don't just say GPR. I say, oh, that's ground-printing trading radar. This is how it works. And I do that every single time, every episode. So that's my one piece of feedback if you want to reach that wider audience, is to do that kind of thing. That being said, there's more niche audience you could find as well, which means
00:49:31
Speaker
I don't know, somehow advertising yourselves to university programs, schools, things like that. Maybe even, maybe even using like Skype a scientist and having the three of you on there to talk to a program, you know, to help promote the podcast. You know what I mean? So I don't know. It's just a thought, but I think you have a different audience and that's why the numbers maybe aren't as high as you think they would be. Shit. It's not a bad thing. It's just,
00:50:02
Speaker
Anything more than zero is great. So I mean, in the end, in the end, there are five to 15,000 people a month that know something that they didn't. And that is something to be applauded. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, on that note, I think, yeah, thank you for coming on.
00:50:22
Speaker
If you could live ruins in life, would you life ruins in life? No.
00:50:35
Speaker
I was going to say, you could promote your socials, but I don't think that offers off the table. Yeah. Yeah. What is promote the APN? Arc Podnet. Find Arc Podnet everywhere you have socials and you'll find us. Are there any upcoming shows that you're excited to have on the APN at all? Do we have any new releases?
00:50:54
Speaker
Well, by the time this goes out, if you are an industry professional, I would say go back and look at the Sierra Mark podcast episode from middle of December, because we had a super fun episode, which is our, we haven't done with these in a few years. And this is a 10 year, 10, 11 year old show at this point, but we did our holiday gift guide and there's like probably 30 links in the show notes for stuff. And we only talked about like six of them, but there were, I think four or five of us on that show and
00:51:22
Speaker
And we really go kind of in depth and just have fun with some of those things. So I would say even if though it's past the holidays, when you're hearing this, it's still a good episode to hand to somebody that might know, might not know what to get you for your birthday or something like that, uh, because you're an archeologist. So, uh, go, go find it.
00:51:40
Speaker
Yeah. Happy new year, everyone. I forget this comes out January 3rd. So happy 2022. Thank you for starting off listening, listening to us yet again. I'm excited for it to come out the day of Capitol riot to electric boogaloo. Good night. I think it's the 27th of December, by the way, that it's coming out on. Oh, so just before happy new year, Carol angels. Yeah. Yeah. It's after Christmas.
00:52:09
Speaker
At least we're ahead now. We're not recording a week before an episode's due. That's true. Well, thank you, Chris. So you host the Archaeology show, the CRMR podcast. You pop on the Rock Art podcast. Occasionally. And I host the Archaeotech podcast as well. OK. Yeah, go find them there. Listen to all the stuff. And thank you, Chris, for editing our podcast and dealing with our crap. Absolutely, guys. Thanks for having a good show.
00:52:38
Speaker
Yeah, please be sure to rate and review the podcast. I was prompting David for it. And with that, we are out.
00:53:04
Speaker
Thanks for listening to a life in ruins podcast. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at a life in ruins podcast. And you can also email us at a life in ruins podcast at gmail.com. And remember, make sure to bring your archaeologists in from the cold and feed them beer underwater. Archaeologists do it deeper and under pressure. Yeah.
00:53:31
Speaker
Yikes. Let's know how you felt about that one, Dr. McAllister. And with that, we are out.
00:53:50
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, Dig Tech LLC, Culturo Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Chris Webster. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com.