Transcript
Speaker: I'm Jane Williams. This is the Red Eye Podcast. In our show today, Lorraine Chisholm talks about race and food insecurity with Leslie Campbell, our food chair in Toronto. Close to 4 million Canadians struggle with food insecurity. Of that group, black, indigenous, people of color, and people with disabilities face the highest levels of poverty and hunger.
Speaker: FoodShare is a Toronto -wide organization that supports over 50 community -led produce markets across the city, nutrition programs in Toronto schools, and urban agriculture projects on public land. Since the onset of the pandemic, they have partnered with over 80 organizations to provide boxes of fresh produce for people facing food insecurity.
Speaker: Leslie Campbell is Senior Coordinator of Special Projects with FoodShare Toronto, and he joins me today to talk about the connections between race and food insecurity. Hello, Leslie. Hello, good afternoon. Now, FoodShare takes a multifaceted approach to food justice. Can you talk about why solving food insecurity is more than just about access to food?
Speaker: The issue with food insecurity goes well beyond access to food, as you've identified. As a food justice organization, FoodShare recognizes that in many places, then the most important barrier that most people face in accessing the food they need is a lack of money.
Speaker: And therefore, to address food insecurity, then we must name and dismantle systemic oppressions that hold poverty and food insecurity in place. Systems like colonialism, capitalism, white supremacy, systemic racism, and patriarchy. And so much of the advocacy work that we do is therefore focused on challenging these systems, and we're strong supporters of income -based responses to food insecurity, which go well beyond food.
Speaker: So we, for example, strongly advocate for increases to the Canadian minimum wage and other income -based government support programs. We support campaigns like 15 in fairness that advocate for worker rights and improved wages. And internally, we have also committed to providing things like a $15 an hour minimum wage despite the provincial rollback here in Ontario on this requirement and worked in recent years to kind of
Speaker: reduce the gap between the lowest and highest wage earners within the organization. So yeah, we recognize poverty as the roots of food insecurity and work to address those underlying roots as well. What does the data we have available to us tell us about the links between race and racism and food insecurity in Canada?
Speaker: Generally, the data in Canada tells us, as you mentioned, that about 4 .4 million Canadians are living with food insecurity, including 1 .2 million children under the age of 18. And we also know that the problem of food insecurity in Canada does not affect all communities equally.
Speaker: In some of the work that we have done, we have identified the fact that Black communities in Canada are at significantly higher risk of facing food insecurity than White households, for example, with Black households at 3 .6 times greater likelihood to be food insecure than White households in Canada.
Speaker: That's a huge vulnerability. I mean, 3 .5 doesn't sound like much, but that's not percentage points. That's times.
Speaker: Yes, exactly. And so in identifying this data, then we are able to kind of think about why this might be. And really kind of the only logical explanation is that this is the manifestation of systems of structural racism that black communities are forced to navigate in their struggle to access the money that they need for food.
Speaker: And so as a result, this is one example of the ways that data can kind of highlight how systemic racism manifests itself in the food system.
Speaker: What data does the Canadian government currently collect about health -related issues like food security? Is the data we have sufficient? That's a great question. So Statistics Canada administers what's called the Canada Community Health Survey every two years. And through this survey, they collect about 130 ,000 responses from across the country.
Speaker: allowing them to look at food insecurity in both children and adults. In collecting the survey data, this module is able to paint an annual picture of food insecurity in Canada and how it changes over time.
Speaker: The data has been collected every two years for many years, but in terms of the way that that data has been analyzed, then historically this data was not analyzed by race. And so in response to this, in 2019, then Fuchia partnered with
Speaker: the proof food insecurity policy research team at the University of Toronto to take a bit of a closer look at food insecurity, specifically trying to disaggregate some of this Canada Community Health Survey data by race and looking specifically at the Black community in Canada. And so that's where some of these startling statistics have come from. When we have conversations about food insecurity, how well do you think that the perspectives of Black people, of Indigenous people and people of colour are being heard?
Speaker: So historically, in conversations about food insecurity, then black indigenous black folks indigenous folks, people of color have been excluded in all of the same ways that they have been excluded in conversations about
Speaker: everything else. Far too often we see BIPOC folks are simply not at the table when conversations are taking place and when they are, then often their perspectives and contributions are undervalued and under -celebrated.
Speaker: One simple example of this is if you look at the composition of leadership of the largest food security organizations across Canada, you will note that the upper leadership, board membership, and most positions of decision -making power are held by white folks.
Speaker: And even when these organizations say that they are working on behalf of BIPOC communities, then their internal composition often does not reflect the diversity of experience and expertise in these communities, effectively excluding them from the decision making table. I'm wondering if there's one of the factors in this is a sort of charity mentality rather than a social justice, racial justice mentality.
Speaker: Yeah, I would say that you're probably right there. Historically, that, I think, has been the approach. A charity mentality tends to focus on band -aid solutions in the context of food insecurity. That would be, for example, a focus on, say, providing people with
Speaker: food handouts to fill their bellies for the day, but not necessarily addressing some of the larger structural factors that are holding food and security in place to begin with. Again, things like systemic racism and some of these more kind of social justice oriented approaches that you mentioned.
Speaker: It sounds like FoodShare Toronto is engaged in these conversations. What can we do to broaden this conversation around food insecurity to include the people who are really affected by it?
Speaker: This is a really good question and I also feel that this is a difficult question or perhaps not really even a question for me as a Black person or for the BIPOC community to answer. I think essentially this is a question for those who have historically held power and led these sorts of conversations.
Speaker: These folks have tended to be white, as I mentioned, cisgendered, tended to be male, able -bodied, upper middle class, straight. And so I think this is a question for them. Ultimately, it is about convincing some of those who have historically held the power of the value of giving that power up to open up spaces for more BIPOC people.
Speaker: We cannot talk about food insecurity or poverty without also talking about systemic racism. And it is that same systemic racism that has historically excluded BIPOC folks from these conversations. We need more BIPOC people in positions of power and of decision making to drive the conversation about food insecurity.
Speaker: And we need to give these BIPOC folks permission to speak out without fear of backlash and professional consequences that are often faced by BIPOC folks currently in these spaces when they call out the racism that they see, or historically. This, I think, will help to broaden the perspectives at the table and make it much more likely that race will be included as a component to these conversations, systemic racism, that sort of thing moving forward.
Speaker: What does eliminating food insecurity for everyone in Canada look like to you in the long term? What could be a long -term view that we could have? Well, if you're going to, in the long term, eliminate food insecurity, especially for BIPOC communities, but also for everyone, then I think that this would look at addressing the barriers that different folks face in accessing the money that they need for food.
Speaker: It would look like addressing hiring discrimination, addressing housing discrimination, addressing loan approval discrimination, and the many, many other systems of oppression that work together to hold poverty and therefore food insecurity in place for BIPOC communities and for all communities.
Speaker: And so, I mean, from an individual perspective, individuals can be mindful about how they spend their money supporting BIPOC businesses and community organizations is a great kind of first step there. Individuals can also lobby their government representatives to speak out on issues of racism and to advocate for the collection of more race -based data. But I also think that it's important to remember that there's an important role for the state to play here.
Speaker: because the state can collect more race -based data to identify where systems are failing various communities and can also kind of advocate for systems that are able to serve the needs of all communities in Canada. I think what I'm hearing is that food security can't be seen as just sort of a small part of our economic well -being for people.
Speaker: No, it's fundamental. And I mean, because of how many other things that the poverty that causes food insecurity impacts, then ultimately I think that the whole conversation about food insecurity needs to really address this question of poverty. And until we can collectively address the question of poverty, then it will be very difficult to make long -term progress against the food security piece.
Speaker: Where's FoodShare focusing right now in terms of policy objectives?
Speaker: Yeah, policy advocacy is a significant part of the work that we do. So in response to numerous calls from Toronto's Black and Indigenous communities, as well as reports of systemic police violence occurring across North America and beyond, we are currently pushing our position on defunding the police. We are currently asking the Mayor of Toronto and the Toronto City Council to do the following three things.
Speaker: Number one, to never again vote to increase Toronto Police Services budget. Number two, to commit to dramatically defunding the Toronto Police Service budget. And number three, to prioritize the expansion of community -led
Speaker: health and safety initiatives. Instead of investing in policing, then we want our city to prioritize alternatives like investing in better food access, education, increased mental health services, housing initiatives, income security, harm reduction, and just kind of the whole suite and ecosystem of support services and other vital community -based support systems.
Speaker: What do you think people who are concerned about this can do to actively start tackling food insecurity? So I mean, from an individual perspective, I think one of the most powerful things that individuals can do is to lobby their local representatives. Because kind of for every email that an MP or an MPP receives, I think that they assume that there are probably many other folks in their community who feel similarly.
Speaker: And so by contacting your local representatives and lobbying and pressuring government to make movement on this piece in a way that addresses the barriers faced by BIPOC communities historically, then I think that individuals are able to have a huge impact. Well, it's been great talking with you this morning, Leslie. You as well. Thank you so much for having me again.
Speaker: I've been speaking with Leslie Campbell. Leslie is Senior Coordinator of Special Projects for FoodShare Toronto. You can check out FoodShare Toronto's website at foodshare .net. The Red Eye podcast is produced at the studios of Vancouver Co -op Radio. You can support us by supporting Co -op Radio. Go to coopradio .org and click on the donate button. Independent media relies on the support of people like you.
