Transcript
Speaker: I'm Jane Williams. This is the Red Eye Podcast. You can hear our live broadcast on Saturday mornings from 10 till noon at 100.5 FM in the Lower Mainland.
Speaker: On the podcast today, we talk with Stella Tien director and scholar Lyanna Patrick about her new documentary, Nachako, It Will Be a Big River Again.
Speaker: The Nachaco River rises east of the Coast Mountains and flows north, then east where it enters the Fraser River at Prince George. It was one of the main tributaries of the Fraser until the Kenny Dam was built in the 1950s.
Speaker: The dam diverted most of the river's flow to power Alcan's aluminum smelter in Kitimat, severely impacting the lives of the local Stella Tène and Saikos nations.
Speaker: Nachaco is a new film that documents years of resistance by the two nations, including a groundbreaking legal proceeding against Rio Tinto Alcan that continues to this day.
Speaker: Writer, director, and scholar, Lyanna Patrick is a member of the Stellaton First Nation, and Lyanna joins me today to talk about the film. Hello, Lyanna.
Speaker: Hello. So nice to have you on the show today. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to chat about Nechako. What happened to the territory when the Kenny Dam was built in the nineteen fifty s So the immediate impacts of the dam was that it flooded out the homelands of the Cheslata carrier, as well as other Dachal and Wet'suwet'en groups in the immediate vicinity of the dam.
Speaker: So it had direct and and really catastrophic consequences for the nations and the people in that area. And for the nations like myself, our Stalaten First Nation, Saikas, as well as ah as other nations, Nadlewaten, the Nachako River, which was a really important waterway for us. It supported huge runs of salmon,
Speaker: And we really relied on the fish in that water system for our survival and as the cornerstone of our culture. And the dam reduced the flow of the Nechako by 70%.
Speaker: that had a huge impact, of course, on the salmon and on all aspects of our lives and our communities. I've read that the salmon runs that were decimated when the dam was built, the salmon composed 90% of your people's diet.
Speaker: Yes. Yeah. And this is why it had such a huge impact because we really relied so much of our health and well-being, our sustenance, our very survival was based on salmon and other fish as well.
Speaker: The Nachaco supported Ancient Runs of Sturgeon, which the film in part talks about. And all of that was under extreme threat. So, yeah, it's it's a huge consequence, both upstream and downstream as well.
Speaker: You include clips in the film from an old black and white newsreel made at the time that the dam was being built. Why did you want to include that in the film?
Speaker: Yeah, you know, I've industrial videos. There was quite a bit of documentation of industry that was done in the mid-last century, and the nineteen 40s and 1950s, particularly around this era of dam building, which experienced a huge resurgence and at that time.
Speaker: And I knew that there was going to be some really powerful film that was going to tell the story of our territory. Not just the building of the dam, but also what our lands and our waters look like, because I knew that there were there was all this survey footage when they came in and and were trying to decide the best place. you know Where were they gonna have this dam? And there were there were a few different options and Achako was not the most immediate option.
Speaker: So I spent a lot of time at BC Archives looking through these industrial films. And it was just, it was really, really striking just to see the scale of this. and And also as we hear, you know, the attitudes towards the lands and the waters. And I think the film really contrasts that with how we see our lands and waters. So I thought it was just such a ah visceral reminder to the audience of what had happened
Speaker: and how widespread that damage was. So, i yeah, it's a striking moment, I think, in the film. It was very shocking. And then the celebratory tone, when you saw hillsides being dynamited, you saw the rising waters creeping along the ground. I mean, it was very, very striking. I can see the images and as I'm talking to you right now. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: You also have archival footage of elders fishing in the Nechako and pulling up a net just full of salmon. Where did you get that piece of film? Yeah, so we were really fortunate to have really good relationships. I mean, obviously, I'm a member of Stalaten First Nation, but the community was really supportive of this film. And in fact, it was the Saikas Nation who...
Speaker: reached out and wanted to make this film in the first place to spread awareness about this court case, which I think has largely gone under the radar. And I hope that changes. But because of the nature of our collaboration and our work with the nations, we were able to access just such a rich trove of oral history.
Speaker: And we were able to find audio cassettes and different recordings in different places. And the Nachaco team digitized them and and have them available now in a repository for community members to listen to.
Speaker: So I just spent a lot of time watching these videos that have been taken from the early 80s up to the mid 2000s. And it was just, it was incredible to find this and and to see especially my you know my grandma, my grandma Angeline, and and to see that footage.
Speaker: You know, I think what it shows too, I want to mention this with the the net and the pulling up of the fish, is that at times there has been water that has been let down the Nechako. It has been released from the dam. And at those times, we see this huge return of salmon.
Speaker: And then when less water is put down the river, we see very few salmon. So it's really at, as you know folks in the film say, it's at the whim of industry, whether we have fish or not.
Speaker: And that's the reason we have been fighting for so many generations and the reason for this court battle as well. Have you always been as connected with this story as you are now?
Speaker: Yeah, that's a really good question. um i have to say over the last five years, I've been more connected than I ever have been to the story, to the lands and waters and to my own family and my own people in ways that were honestly surprising, unexpected and and quite wonderful to me. But I didn't know as much growing up about this whole story, particularly how that, you know, the role of the dam and opening up the territory to industrial development, to extraction, to agriculture, to all the things we talk about in the film.
Speaker: I really did not understand the central role that that played. But throughout my life at various points, I've learned bits and pieces about it. And so i'm I'm just really glad to be able to be part of telling the story and bringing it to a wider audience now.
Speaker: What was it like to work with your father on this movie? Because he has a pretty big role and the story. Yeah, yeah, he does. It's it's been a really profound journey, i think, for me to be able to work with him and to continue to tell his story. I i started, you know, I've been...
Speaker: drawing upon my dad's knowledge and asking him questions for, you know, for many years now, because he's a language speaker and carries so much knowledge and and a really respected person in our community.
Speaker: So the fact that we were able to do this film and for him to be a part of that was, um yeah, it was really important because The words of our elders, I think that's probably, you know, one of my favorite parts is hearing our elders and their recollections of what it was like in our territories. So I think we need more of that. We need more communities to share these recollections and these experiences.
Speaker: What's at the crux of the court case? What are you asking Rio Tinto Alcan to do? The court case has always always been about stewardship, about guardianship of the water and the nation's responsibilities towards that water.
Speaker: And this is why the nations wanted to go after the company in particular, because we wanted to hold that company accountable for the damage that had been done.
Speaker: And they've never really been held accountable. And so that was really what was being sought was for the nations to have a role in stewarding our own waters and restoring flow to those waters.
Speaker: The important piece that was brought in, I want to say with a court case, was when the federal and provincial governments were added and because initially it was solely against Rio Tinto Alcan.
Speaker: And I think it's important that the provincial and federal governments were brought in because they actually were found to be liable, that they have fiduciary responsibility. They were the ones who issued the licenses And they are the ones who have to step up and also take responsibility.
Speaker: So I really, we really emphasize that, that this this was not, interestingly, it wasn't an Aboriginal rights entitled case. We wanted people to take responsibility so that we could take responsibility for our own lands and waters.
Speaker: But the court also did find that we did have Aboriginal rights entitled to our waters and to the Nechako watershed, which also was really significant and a really important finding.
Speaker: And one of the things I really appreciated about this film is the perspective of what it's like to be involved in a lengthy court battle like this. What did you learn from the people who are fighting this case?
Speaker: Yeah, I think this for me was a really important point. peace And I'm glad that it emerged as a theme, as something that you could see happening, which was the toll that this takes on community. Because what i learned was that people have been fighting and struggling and doing this work for so many years, for generations now. And it's really hard work.
Speaker: And our leaders and our leadership, they pay a price for it. Because all of that time that is spent trying to hold industry accountable, working with government, going to these meetings, as we see through Jasmine's experiences, that's time that is taken away, that could be spent with family, that could be spent on the land.
Speaker: So I really wanted to show that. I wanted to show that often, as Indigenous people, we're required to do twice as much work. We have to have our own cultural knowledge. We have to, you know do the things that keep our cultures and our nations alive.
Speaker: And we have to fight these battles in colonial courts and in boardrooms. And so I guess I just came away with a profound respect and love and admiration for the generations of people who have stayed in this battle and who also find beauty and love and humor and It's a multifaceted story, right? It's not just of trauma and harm and damage. It's, you know, the love and connection and resilience and strength of community. So that's, I really wanted to show that in this film.
Speaker: It really comes through in the story of Jasmine, Jasmine Thomas, who's a psychos First Nations elected counselor and has two young children and and does all this work for the court case and the community and also has the children and also takes them out into the bush.
Speaker: You know, I just want to say too, like when we screened some early versions of the film with participants, people who are in the film, and one thing, my dad was just so moved by Jasmine's story.
Speaker: And he said, that's our story. It's so important to show that. It was a real recognition too, I feel, from my dad of The fact that we have our societies are matriarchal, you know, it's, um you know, we inherit our lineage through our mothers and our grandmothers.
Speaker: So recognizing that strength of our matriarchs was really and important piece of this film as well. How did you decide that the film was done?
Speaker: So, you know, we were brought in as a team, and I ah want to give huge kudos to the production team, to Lantern Films in particular, who...
Speaker: really worked so hard around the funding and the community relationships and the National Film Board who came on board to provide their expertise and their support and then experimental forest films. But when we were brought on board, it was to really look at this court case.
Speaker: So we sort of had, we were hoping that there would be a natural timeline to the film. that we would be able to see the the court case through to whatever ending that was going to represent.
Speaker: and And we largely were. It did work out that way, where the case made its way through the court and we were able to be there when it was at the Supreme Court and when it was at the Court of Appeals.
Speaker: So that was really, once that process was completed, we knew that we had enough pieces to be able to tell this story. What do you hope that people will take away from the movie?
Speaker: I really hope that people will come away with this and be really motivated to show solidarity and allyship and action around protecting our rivers,
Speaker: and understand the urgent need for actions. I hope that they are moved to take action in whatever way makes sense, whether that's advocating to governments, whether that's working with land protectors, environmental monitors, First Nations.
Speaker: I just hope people understand that this is an Indigenous-led movement that is impacting everybody and everybody has a role to play. And like we can't be complacent about this because what Nachako I think shows is how we're all affected.
Speaker: It's a very localized story, but it's also at the same time, a very global story. Because climate crisis doesn't pick sides, it affects everybody. So I'm really hoping that people are inspired by the actions of our communities, the things that a very small number of people can achieve, and are just called to take action.
Speaker: It has been really great to talk with you today, Liana. Thank you so much, Jane. It's been wonderful to talk with you. I've really appreciated your your thoughtful questions. And and I hope As many people get out to see it as possibly can.
Speaker: Masi. I'll let people know where they can do that. I've been speaking with Liana Patrick. Her feature documentary, Nachako, It Will Be a Big River Again, has its world premiere at the Doxa Documentary Film Festival's Justice Forum on May 3rd.
Speaker: That screening is sold out, but they're going to be adding a second screening, May 9th at 5 p.m. at the Javed Moafagian Cinema, SFU. And the film is a co-production of Lantern Films, Experimental Forest Films, and the National Film Board of Canada.
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Speaker: And you can follow us on Blue Sky at Red Eye Radio. I'm Jane Williams. Thanks for listening.
