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Epiosde 6 - Time to Talk Day
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In honour of Time to Talk Day, we’re bringing you a powerful conversation on mental health with LCW founder Russ Harris alongside LCW consultant psychologist Dr. Garret O’Moore.
This episode dives into the realities of mental health at work, why we struggle to talk about it, and how we can move beyond stigma to real, practical solutions. Russ and Dr. O’Moore share insights on resilience, emotional flexibility, and the tools that actually make a difference in handling stress, anxiety, and workplace pressures.
Whether you're an employee, leader, or business owner, this conversation will help you rethink how we approach mental wellbeing—both for ourselves and those around us. Let’s start talking.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Mental Health Focus
00:00:00
Russ Harris
Hello and welcome to episode six of the LCW Straight Talking Wellness Podcast, the no-nonsense podcast that cuts through the noise to bring you actionable insights for thriving in life and work. I'm Russ Harris, and today we are marking Time to Talk Day, a vital campaign by Mind and Rethink Mental Illness, which aims to spark open conversations about mental health across the UK. Obviously, mental health affects us all.
00:00:31
Russ Harris
And talking about it is one of the most powerful ways to break down stigma, build understanding and create supportive communities, whether that's at home in the workplace or in our wider social
The Importance of Deepening Mental Health Conversations
00:00:43
Russ Harris
circles.
00:00:44
Russ Harris
So to help me explore this further, I'm joined by Dr. Garrett O'More, a published author, qualified psychologist and consultant with London Corporate Wellness.
00:00:49
Garret
Hello.
00:00:56
Russ Harris
All right, I'm going to kick things off by saying that Garrett has spent decades working to help people better understand their mental health.
00:01:04
Russ Harris
and is all it So it's all on Garrett today. Now, let's start with, I suppose, the the crucial question really, why is it why is it important to talk about mental health?
00:01:04
Garret
just
00:01:17
Russ Harris
Is it always a good thing to be talking about mental health? What kind of benefits does it bring? And are there any, you know, trapdoors to watch out for?
00:01:26
Garret
Hmm. Good question. Yeah. And I think there's, there's obviously, you know, I just said, there's clearly a lot more conversations seem to be happening than there were in the past. But what's interesting is sometimes the conversation becomes, we need to kind of keep talking about mental health. But that sort of becomes the conversation. It almost becomes a conversation about having a conversation. If that makes sense. Rather than actually sort of getting getting into kind of getting into a little bit more and sort of going, what is
Understanding Mental Health: Comparisons and Self-Assessment
00:01:53
Garret
that?
00:01:54
Garret
what does that actually yeah look like? What are the benefits to that? And I think my my my understanding really is that the idea is that actually, if we're coming from a position where we actually want to improve mental health, we want to improve wellbeing in the same way, you like with physical health, you need to kind of obviously talk about it so people understand what it is. So I think you know starting there, you know it's really to kind of broaden that understanding. Like when we talk about mental health and we talk about wellbeing, what are one are we sort of actually you know, talking about. And from that basis, you can then look at, you can kind of then essentially assess a little bit more in terms of where where you are at, you know, where people you know, about how are we sort of as a society with regards to with regards to kind of mental health.
00:02:39
Russ Harris
So is that kind of the breaking down mental health into these different categories and areas? Is that what you're alluding to?
00:02:46
Garret
I think, yeah, I mean, I think so. It's like, I think a lot of people are probably, you know, if you sort of said to somebody, do you think your physical health is good? you know, I mean, I appreciate not if it's gonna necessarily know the the intricacies of what's going on inside their body, but they're probably get a sense of actually, yeah, like my body feels pretty good. Like I'm i'm kind of pain free, you know, I've got energy, I can sort of do most of the physical things within reason that I want to be able to do. Yeah, like if it feels pretty good, if I get a if I get a cold, I seem to recover relatively well, you know, I kind of feel like my, my, my physical health is pretty good. And if you like I said, somebody will, what's your sense of your kind of mental health? And someone might, you know, then to sort of be able to go
00:03:23
Garret
Well, you know, I mean, I do obviously I'm human. I can, I can get stressed about things. like I can feel anxious. I can have some days when I'm feeling a little bit down, generally speaking, though, my mood is pretty good. I'm generally quite, you know, looking forward to things. I'm excited. Uh, you know, I, I, I enjoy things in my life, you know, activities I've got, you know, friendships, relationships, you know, things like that, or I feel relatively resilient. You know, I feel like I can manage.
00:03:50
Garret
when, you know, something's been more challenging, you know, things like that, I think that's the kind of way you might sort of say, you know, I feel like my, my, my sort of mental health and my wellbeing is relatively good.
Positive Mental Health and the Challenge of Stigma
00:04:01
Garret
For other people, it might be that they feel, you know, I really feel like I've got a good, I drive kind of meaning, kind of purpose from my life, from my day, you know, things like that, I feel like I'm, um'm I'm, I'm kind of glad to be here. But, you know, looking, looking forward to looking forward to tomorrow, that kind of thing.
00:04:19
Russ Harris
Yes, interesting. As you were talking then, it did make me think sometimes, as you said at the beginning, the conversation becomes about having a conversation about mental health, that there is this slant towards mental ill health. And sometimes it's easy to forget that we're supposed, to you know, sort of, because it's important to talk about when somebody's mental health is not in a great space, how do you get it back into a great space? We don't spend so much time talking about having fun and enjoyment and purpose and drive, you know, these kind of things as much it tends to be that if you're just talking about mental health, and you don't start to break it down into those areas, you were saying there, you can become hyper fixated on one aspect of mental health that just springs to mind at first, or it can be hyper fixated on a negative aspect of mental health.
00:04:52
Garret
Hmm. Mm hmm.
00:05:03
Garret
Yeah,
00:05:07
Garret
absolutely. And I think, you know, it is really, it is really important to understand that, you know, that there's mental health, but there's also in the same like with physical health, there's also very clearly, you know, mental illness, in the sense, you know, there there are people who have, you know, really, really struggling, just the day to day, often with with potentially a very, very difficult kind of, you know, conditions, you know, in the in the same way that there could be really struggling with like, you know, physical health.
00:05:31
Garret
but I think it's good. It's really good to understand that. Yeah. I think the traffic can fall into us that we, we sort of, we sort of overly fix it on one. As opposed to, you know, as opposed to the other end, it but it becomes this kind of, how do I to say it? cause it's not, it's not always like one or the other, if that makes sense, you can have sometimes, you know, you can have, it can it can fluctuate, you know, in terms of coming from, from sort of, uh, you know, you one day, like your mental health can feel sort of, a bit better than it does in other days.
00:05:58
Garret
But there can be some people were actually, if it's a serious mental illness, like every day can be really, really tough. But like but I guess for me, it's like where I'd be coming from is that actually there should be space for everybody and we can actually have all these kinds of conversations rather than feeling like we just got to fix it in one. You know, it's either we're just focusing on positive or we're just focusing on on the challenge. And actually, you know, ideally it's like, how can we make things sort of better for as many people as possible?
00:06:27
Russ Harris
ah ah What is it, I suppose, what is it about mental health that makes sometimes having conversations about it so difficult? Because I think if I was to say to someone, I, you know, I went to go and play football, and I injured my ankle, because I was running around too fast, and I didn't warm up properly.
00:06:51
Garret
Hmm.
00:06:51
Russ Harris
I went to the doctors and I, you know, had an x-ray and it's apparently it's broken. you know, now I've got to put boot on it, and I can't play football for a while. But it's okay, because I've got to take the, you know, take these painkillers, and I've got the boot on for six weeks, and then I'll, I'll gradually get back into it.
00:07:07
Russ Harris
That feels like quite an easy conversation to have with someone. But if you say, I've been going through a particularly stressful time, and I didn't, I didn't warm up properly, you know, in my mind, I didn't look after my mind, I've got kind of, you know, quote unquote, injury.
00:07:17
Garret
Yeah.
00:07:20
Russ Harris
you know, something that's going to stop me from doing what I can do day to day because I'm feeling it's affecting my mood and and I can't, you know, I can't get myself up for going to work. I've been to a doctor, I've got some antidepressants, I'm going to have to be on them for a bit.
00:07:34
Russ Harris
And then I'm going to come back. And and when I'm feeling better, I'm going to be back. That feels like a completely different conversation to have. But there are so many parallels in terms of what's happened, you know.
00:07:42
Garret
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I think, and it's probably it probably is maybe just drawing a parallel that you probably go back a generation or two. And there was a lot more stigma around sort of physical illnesses, not people like if they had cancer, you know, things like that, but would people say like the C word. And there was a sort of, a you know, you don't really sort of talk, talks so openly about these things. Or I think a lot of people now not everybody, of course, but I think people are more sort of you know, forthcoming and feel a bit safer, I think to talk about, to talk about the kind of physical health. And I think that's, I think that's just where we are with mental health. We're just sort of, we're still not quite there yet. And I think just that great example with, you know, someone maybe like, you know, breaking an ankle or twisting an ankle. I think for me, some of it's probably the difference is that if you break an ankle, I suppose is the thing of like,
Adapting to Mental Health Struggles
00:08:29
Garret
does that sort of say something about me? You know, well, maybe I was a bit and unlucky, or well, maybe he's a bit careless, i wasn't paying attention to something, but
00:08:38
Garret
I think the idea that actually when it's mental health, I think that that's kind of the trap that you fall into, that it sort of has to, it's like that sort of says something almost negative about me. Like it's it's it's a kind of, it's a shortcoming almost.
00:08:52
Russ Harris
They're almost like there's blame attached to it. Like it must have been your fault.
00:08:54
Garret
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or you're sort of, there's something like quote unquote, you know, wrong with me. Like, and that's the kind of the the thing you often hear, you know, it's a sort of,
00:09:02
Russ Harris
Yeah.
00:09:07
Garret
you know that kind of someone almost like like what's wrong with me like why can't I do x y z you know and I think one of the things off to try and you know a lot of you know a lot of what therapists are trying to to to help kind of clients understand or people they're working with is actually it's not to dismiss you know what they're struggling with but it's it's to try and sort of almost really challenged that self-blame component to actually understand that you know what you're actually struggling with is very much a consequence of what you experienced. so So that often is where we try and shift it from what's wrong with me to actually not what's wrong with you, what's what's actually happened to you, and how have you had to sort of adapt and respond to what's happened to you, and is that one might be feeding into the struggles you're having now.
00:09:53
Garret
And so it's so this sort of, you know, and a piece of like, if I go to doctrine and go, Doc, what's wrong with me? And he goes, Well, yeah, you dislocated your kneecap. You know, but, but often when I find when someone's asking me in my role, it's it's more like a kind of a, it feels like it's almost a kind of almost like I'm defective somehow. Tell me what it is. And actually, to to really understand that a lot of people's difficulties are the consequence of adaptations, their ways there are ways they had to respond to situations to to get through them. You know, it's it's like, and maybe physical analogy would be that, you know, if I badly roll my ankle, and I start limping, I start to put more weight through my other foot. And if I keep doing that, you know, what it's doing is it's it's protecting my foot in the short term. But perhaps over time, I start to create some kind of muscle imbalance.
00:10:41
Garret
And I now become kind of, you know, one, one foot dominant and I maybe, maybe understanding upon more weight into that one foot or whatever it might be. And you you roll on a couple of years and then suddenly you're going, I get like lower back pain. What's going on? And and you're not seeing where it began. And actually what's happening is you know the imbalance is the consequence of an injury.
00:11:02
Garret
it's not that there's necessarily something kind of quote unquote, wrong. But this is how your body had to adapt in that moment. And then it got it essentially, it didn't have that opportunity to kind of
Promoting Open Conversations and Reducing Stigma
00:11:10
Garret
reset and go back to how things were. And then over time, what what was added, what was adapted in one situation, then over time, can potentially become maladaptive.
00:11:20
Garret
And I just don't think that understanding is really out there yet, to to that degree. And I think that's where we have the tendency, I think, to sort of personalize it, see it, maybe be something wrong with me. And and I think that is that kind of reluctance then to, to share. And I think, you know, there's, you know, I don't want to be dismissive of that, because, you know, people have sort of opened up and shared in the past, and they have experienced stigma, they have experienced ridicule, they have experienced being dismissed. So those fears are not without, you know, basis, if that makes sense. But that's hopefully what the taxo did time to talk is really about, you know, it's actually by having all these conversations, we were really try and
00:11:55
Garret
shake off that kind of that stigma.
00:11:58
Russ Harris
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. ah ah when So then when if somebody is you know wanting to talk to somebody and they're wanting to open up, and they're aware of this potential judgment, and that's what's holding them back, and that's what's making them nervous about engaging in those conversations. Are there sort of tips and and and tricks that you would you would think would be helpful for people? Because obviously we can run into the you know you can run into the overshare problem where once you start
00:12:34
Russ Harris
You start talking to someone, then you tell them everything, and the the the person you're talking to is maybe not equipped to to take that on board. Obviously, there's this kind of the environment. And you know when you're saying it and how you're saying it and all those sorts of factors to consider, other things that make, in your experience, make it easier for people to talk about these things.
00:12:53
Garret
Yeah, I mean, so some of it i think some some of the thing, and this is the bit of the arc to it, and you know some people are more fortunate in this with other than than others. is that actually they have people around them who they feel safe with. And um know so that they they're just their environment actually makes it easier to you know to open up and share. And for some people, you know if if they've had experiences maybe where where a trust has been broken or it's not been that easy, there would just be just a bit more of aharian a wariness. I suppose if if I was in a position of going
00:13:25
Garret
want to take a bit more of a chance, then what I'd probably do is I'd probably ever think about who do I know, what's my sort of experience with certain people, you know, I might be thinking about people who maybe have their potential opened up to me more, have i have I seen that sort of receptivity around them, and and and if I could maybe identify some of those people, what I might do, you know, if I was genuinely feeling a bit scared, might just go, what would, but you know, 10% more open look like?
00:13:52
Garret
So just share like a little, maybe just share a little bit more. You know, so if someone said to you, Hey, how's things? You know, we might do that very social thing. We'll go, yeah, good, good. Yeah. How are you? And go, yeah, good, good, good. You know, what, what would like, if I generally, that wasn't really what was going on for that moment, but I don't want to go sort of, you know, really sharing everything and really maybe feeling very vulnerable. What would 10% look like? Would it be to go, yeah, yeah, I'm all right. But actually the last couple, last kind of couple of weeks, I've been quite stressed about XYZ.
00:14:22
Garret
and just see how the person responds. Do do they invite you to share more? Or do they go, oh, tell me about it. You're not going to believe how stressed I am, you know and they're going to go into their it's their own thing. you So I think there can be a little bit of that. So that's that's one thing that you know actually just tests the waters a little bit with people. And and then over time, you might see this, OK, this is a person who seems more more receptive to to you know kind of essentially lending me their ear for want of a better word.
00:14:50
Garret
and actually give me that kind of space. And you might find that they then reciprocate.
Effective Communication on Mental Health
00:14:54
Garret
So that that can be absolutely one thing just to have those more kind of you know open sort of conversations with people.
00:15:00
Russ Harris
from the other side, then if somebody does does open up to you, I mean, there's a lot of unsolicited advice that probably well-intentioned, you know probably wanting wanting to help and maybe diving into your role going out and sort of saying, well, you know I've dealt with it this way.
00:15:08
Garret
Mm-hmm.
00:15:18
Russ Harris
or And what what are some tips for you know, receivers of, you know, of these conversations, like if you're, if you're getting the sense somebody's trying to share something with you, is there ah ah is there a good way to react and good way to respond?
00:15:34
Garret
Yeah, it's hard to hard to give like a very, if you want to call it like a generalized view, what it would what it would say is that actually take that pressure off yourself to to have to come up with advice. That's, you know, my sense is that actually, you know,
00:15:52
Garret
what you can do is just offer a space if you can. So it's really just to kind of listen, you know, just try and, you know, as as best you can, and but I'd almost call it can body like a sort of a safe space, you know, try your best to just really be open and and attentive to to what the person is kind of sharing. know, if you if you get the sense, I mean, like, you know, this is the kind of classic one, don't be having a conversation when you're texting at the same time, right? Like it's, you know, you put the phone away, you're giving, you're giving your full attention.
00:16:18
Garret
actually understand that just giving them that space can be therapeutic. But you don't have to come up with a solution, you don't have to come up with an answer. You know, for a lot of us is actually having our experience validated is is actually therapeutic. It's it's not that you necessarily have to come in with the answer and go, Oh, have you thought about this? Should you do that? And you're right, like a lot of it can be well meaning. But a lot of people actually have thought about what they can do. And that's not necessarily the issue. you know they they they kind of they They can see a route forward. It's just they might feel quite alone with it. you know It's like, am I the only one who who sees this? Am I the only one who is is struggling with this? So that kind of shared experience, having the feeling is kind of validated, um um I think, is is therapeutic for a lot of people. And what I tend to find is, you know when when you offer someone in that space, if they actually want the advice, they'll ask you.
00:17:13
Garret
they'll then, they'll say like, what do you think I should do? And now it's, you know, now it's being essentially like, it's not unsolicited now. So, and of course, be careful, because you may not actually, you know, this is the kind of thing for all of us to sort of go, am I kind of in my wheelhouse here? Or am I just sort of, you know, but you know, that's, that's where you can actually come in with the suggestion. I was, I think, typically what a lot of us will do is we kind of feel like a pressure to have to help. And we don't really understand that listening is the help.
00:17:45
Garret
Right? It's like, I've got it. I've got a cream with my toolkit and go, have you thought of it? This, this, this, this, this, and you know, it's it's quite a few times, you know, I've had these kind of conversations with with colleagues who do similar kind of work to myself.
00:17:51
Russ Harris
Yeah.
00:17:57
Garret
It's almost like you have that little chuckle sometimes where, you know, someone comes in, and they're they're sharing something with you. And you're sort of feeding back, you know, essentially, like, your you know, my sort of, you know, experience of what I'm sharing and you know, maybe sort of reflecting back to kind of feelings, you know, things like that. And then, you know, quite a few people have said some version of like, thank you. and And the interesting thing is that they'll just go, you're the first person who hasn't jumped in with a suggestion. And and you're like the psychologist. And this is this kind of like this, the irony was almost like, you know, I cut people kind of get the the the ironies, I'm kind of going to you because I'm hoping you've got the kind of the insights and the tools and the different things. But actually, you've not done that yet. But actually, you
00:18:41
Garret
everyone I was supposed to casually and jumped in with suggestions straight away. So it's a kind of an, it's a kind of an interesting thing. And I think it kind of points, points to that sort of pressure that, and I feel, I think it does come from a good place all the time, you know, but that pressure to kind of be helpful. I got to give them something. And and I think actually lending them your ear and and being present is the giving them something. And if, and if they want something specific, trust that they'll ask you.
00:19:08
Garret
Or if you just get that sense, you just you can just go, you know ah ah you you know do you want me to you meet essentially listen? Or actually, are you interested in getting suggestions? And then see what they're saying.
00:19:22
Russ Harris
i As in my role as a coach, I think I sit outside of the family unit I sit outside of the friend unit and the colleague unit so I think sometimes that safe space is created by virtue of my role.
Workplace Culture and Mental Health
00:19:41
Russ Harris
I know clients well but I'm not necessarily involved in other aspects of the life and certainly not I'm not going to go and talk to somebody about what they've said and I'm certainly not involved in those situations so I often get quite a lot of that sort of offloading and and you know I'm stressed about this, stressed about that. While they're obviously going to people at work and talking to them about it there's obviously the work dynamics and the politics you know you've obviously got hierarchies, bosses, that kind of thing.
00:20:12
Russ Harris
family dynamics can sometimes presumably make these conversations more difficult. And people have to be careful about, you know, who and when and how you know this kind of things can be can be tricky.
00:20:24
Garret
yeah Absolutely. and And I think that that can be another another aspect, I think, that causes people to maybe kind of you know kind of carry a lot of stuff inside and not share. you know that There can be that sort of sense of, you know is there going to be an impact on another person? you know Maybe I don't want to burden them. You might you might have a sense that maybe they're struggling with their own stuff and you'll feel that you're going to kind of add and add to that.
00:20:49
Garret
and you know, again, some people have had those experiences where they've, they've opened up and shared and then that, you know, the response has not been sort of favorable in that sense. So, you know, it's, it, this stuff doesn't come from, it doesn't come from nowhere, but my sense is generally speaking, you know, a lot of people, um, again, actually recognize that they're being privileged when you should choose them as the person to share with. And.
00:21:13
Garret
in many ways, you know, especially as a friend, you know, they're, they're less likely to actually see it as a burden. They may have, you know, concern for you, but they're not necessarily going to feel like, oh, God, now, now what they've put na another thing, they've like, don't tell me, it's not that, you know, they might well be concerned. But I think on another level, you know, they'll feel actually quite honored and privileged that actually you've chosen them to, yeah you know, to open up to where you really, you know, taking, ah ah taking a chance, actually, you know, taking a risk to, to share in that way. I think, of course, in the workplace, you know, absolutely, that it can present itself with another challenge. You've got hierarchies, you know, you've got like reporting lines, you know, things like that. I think within organizations, then it's it's probably for them in a way to kind of look at the culture, you know, more broadly, like, you know, the organization, but even if you're sort of a line manager, even that more immediate, you know, what's what's more the culture of my team? really, I think that's a space where leaders can actually set the, you know, in a way that they re-inform that culture because they get to lead by example.
00:22:09
Garret
And actually, how do you how do you talk about it? And actually, do you talk about in a kind of a lip service kind of way? Like, where you just go, Oh, you know, mental health is really important. And actually, bone push comes to show up. It's all about the bottom line. You know, and people sort of see that and they go, right, it's just words. Or do you sort of body? Do you embody it more? And you know, in terms of are they active conversations you have? Do you do you set aside some time, maybe for like a lunch and learn, you know, you get someone in to talk about mental health,
00:22:37
Garret
or you ask people, hey, guys, be great if all of us kind of went did a bit of reading on stuff, did some research, and then we can all kind of present into the group. You know, things like these things you can kind of do to sort of foster that ethos, you know, and then does the company have, you know, things like, you know, like a mental health first aid, or, you know, the people who are kind of trained up enough to sort of be a bit more aware or tuned in to how some of the kind of people's difficulties might sort of present themselves in the workplace, things like that.
00:23:06
Garret
you know So essentially, is there a place for someone to go within work? Is there a designated person, or do they have you know good provisions in terms of access to to mental health support, whether it's either in-house or through an external organization? So I think there's so long this is kind of somewhere, I think, in a workplace. But but generally, it's that kind of culture. you know is Is the culture one that's quite accepting? Or does it feel like it's quite sort of we're all in it for ourselves?
00:23:34
Garret
and I don't want to show any weakness in this place. you know so So I think the cultural organization is going to play a big a big part in terms of how how safe people feel to kind of open up and share things. so
00:23:45
Russ Harris
Yeah, because I think a good workplace culture is proactively protective against quiet you know things quietly getting to crisis point. I think you if you regularly have meetings, one of the things I've found really useful having bigger conversations where there's more at stake or there's going to be emotional content in the conversation is actually do it as a part of activity. you know Go for coffee, go for a walk, because it just diffuses a little bit of that tension. So I think having those kind of communication skills, understanding and being empathetic towards other people in the workplace, and actually, as you said, kind of walking the walk with regards to that rather than just saying, you know we support mental health,
00:24:24
Russ Harris
in the workplace, actually making that part of the daily routine and in ah ah in an office space or in a job environment means that you can almost identify some issues before they become really critical for that individual, before they become that kind of mental ill health. you know It's like actually getting them getting them at at an earlier stage when it becomes when it's sort of stress, anxiety, someone feeling uncomfortable with something, rather than just you know ignoring it and burying it. and
00:24:54
Russ Harris
turning it into banter and you know that kind of stuff that's that has received a lot of criticism over the last maybe five or ten years more so than prior prior to that because otherwise you end up in a toxic environment can arrive from ignoring this and from actively being negative towards it.
00:25:08
Garret
Mm hmm.
00:25:13
Garret
Absolutely. Yeah, 100%. And I think the other thing just to be aware of, especially if we just don't come to workplace, you know, there, it's tricky, you know, you don't you don't sort of somehow completely separate your personal life from work. And so there might be people who are struggling with their mental health. And and yet perhaps if you want to call it like the the drivers of that might be things that are actually happening in their lives, you know, outside of work, or whatever might be, but it could also be that the workplace itself is is is a big factor. And and so that's that's really a thing to kind of look at. you know do you know what are you know how How are people kind of being managed here? What are the kind of expectations? In the actual environment itself, is it conducive to sort of a positive energy or not? you know Like you said, yeah do do people actually actually get out of the office? Do we do we have do rear arrange kind of walks or or talks? There's more informal ways that people can actually share
00:26:06
Garret
share things, you know, it's like that manager sort of, you know, going for coffee with somebody, or actually, let's just leave it before working in in an office. It's like, you know, how about we go, go grab a coffee, go to the park if there's one nearby. So things can kind of be handled in more kind of human, informal kind of way. And I think it's just being open to the fact that, you know, sometimes the the issues may be within work, which can be more challenging. And then it's really to sort of understand, are they systems issues?
00:26:30
Garret
you know, in terms of this the structure of roles and things like that.
Shared Responsibility for Mental Wellbeing
00:26:34
Garret
But very often it could be interpersonal things. It could be that there may be conflict or there may be, you know, maybe a person is feeling unfairly treated or, or, you know, maybe they feel like someone's, you know, having a go at them, whatever it might be. And they're just really unsure how to, how to respond to that, how to handle that. So again, this, this is why I think it can help for organizations to rethink about what what are the different ways you'd respond to things like that. Like what, you know, if someone's got an issue with their manager,
00:26:59
Garret
What's the mechanism? do Do we just trust that they can have it out with their manager in in you know in a sort of a healthy way? Or do we do we need to have a place where they can actually go and perhaps we can do some mediation or we can do something? you know How do we sort of how do we sort of work these things? So that's in the in the relational. But then, yeah as you're saying, the other aspect of course is, do we have these things where you know we we value people doing things to kind of manage stress?
00:27:23
Garret
you know whether it's whether it's sort of you know offering opportunities for kind of exercise, you know, getting out in the bed, all those kind of things can really, really help.
00:27:32
Russ Harris
Yeah, because there's an equal, there's almost an equal responsibility on both sides of the fence, isn't there, from organisations and then from employees as well, particularly, we're focused on the workplace, because you see how both parties can get understandably irritated with one another. If somebody is taking very few steps to look after their own mental health, and then just saying, work is doing nothing for me. And it's like, well, are you exercising? Are you eating healthily? Are you sleeping? Are you, you know, seeking help when you need it? Or are you coming in with a toxic attitude and your lifestyle's all over the place and you bat but you're you're almost a ticking time bomb for some sort of mental health issue. you know And then flip flip that the other way around, somebody who's genuinely trying hard to try to do their best to look after themselves. And work is just such a toxic environment and they're they're not cating for it at all. And you see this adversarial environment spring out where it's like, well, it's your fault. No, it's your fault. And actually,
00:28:27
Russ Harris
getting some alignment between employees and workplace to kind of realize that they both have responsibility towards the mental health is is it's probably the sweet spot to get to.
00:28:39
Garret
Yeah, absolutely. I think 100%, 100%. I think, you know, again, say it's drawing that parallel like with physical health, to sort of say, you know, I would say that, you know, we've all got that responsibility to to the best that we can to try and look after our our physical health as opposed to, you know, if if I do everything that, you know, the the sort of the, if you would say like, consensus health advice says not to do.
00:28:46
Russ Harris
Yeah.
00:29:02
Garret
And then do I go to the health service and kind of complain about everything? do I go and actually what's what's like my part? And I think your education is a big part of that as well, but absolutely, I think we've all got to this sort of this individual responsibility and then also communal collective societal responsibility as well.
Conclusion and Encouragement to Seek Support
00:29:20
Russ Harris
And I think I would just finish by saying as well that the result of getting all this sort of stuff right, talking to people, you know, opening up, I think thinking about it if you're someone who's employing people and and, you know, thinking about it from a work point of view, vice versa, is of course, everyone has like more freedom, more enjoyment, more social interaction. It's less fraught, less tense, there's fewer interpersonal relationship issues. and And I think you can really then focus on whatever the job at hand is, you know whether that's just having fun enjoying yourself, whether it's achieving something with work, it's it takes some of that pressure off if you're you know proactively doing some of this stuff beforehand. You can be in a really good mental space.
00:30:07
Garret
100%. Yeah. And I think, you know, if we if we have a sort of a safe, if you have a safe workplace, you know, safe community, safe society, and people really sort of feel safe, that's, that's, that's really when we have that sort of, you know, there's more energy, there's more enjoyment, we feel sort of lighter. And we, in a funny way, like, we're more, we tend to be more kind of creative, we're we're more likely to kind of be adventurous, you know, things like that. We do those kind of things when we feel safe. When we feel threatened,
00:30:33
Garret
You know, it's not only do we kind of physically tense up, we sort of, we, we can kind of shut down their heads a little bit. Like we pull back because we're just trying to protect ourselves so and be sort of guarded, but that's not always, especially if you, you know, if you're a business, that's not necessarily what's going to give you the, you know, and and sort of relying, you know, employees to really, bring their best to work every day. So it's, I think it's really win-win as far as I'm concerned, like it's, it's great for the individuals. It's, it's un great for their broader, their broader networks groups. It's great for organizations, actually.
00:31:01
Garret
go for society. So I, you know, in that sense, it's one of these few things where you sort of saying, you know, most people are going to benefit.
00:31:09
Russ Harris
Yeah, I totally agree. And I would finish by saying, of course, if anybody is listening and they are struggling and looking for somewhere to go, don't hesitate to get in touch with us.
00:31:19
Russ Harris
you know Look around on the internet for places to go and speak to people can help. And of course, take some of the advice on board from Garrett and and you know go and speak to friends and family and colleagues and and and try and find that safe space.
00:31:29
Garret
Yeah.
00:31:34
Russ Harris
and and And hopefully that will you know see things see things improve.
00:31:39
Garret
I'll just add, I think, just especially with with ah Time to Talk Week coming up, actually, you can check out their website. It's also got some good tips, pointers for actually how to have conversations. It's it's got kind of posters, all sorts of good stuff.
00:31:51
Garret
And then their Mind as well have also got some some good some good stuff that people can, if they want, they like to kind of digest stuff through kind of reading and and reflecting on things and some good good good advice information on both of those both those websites.
00:32:03
Russ Harris
Brilliant. Thank you very much, Garrett.
00:32:04
Garret
Thank you for having me.
00:32:06
Russ Harris
Another good one. See you next time.
00:32:07
Garret
Thank you, take care, bye bye.