Transcript
Speaker: There's no technical sort of rule set to make a boilermaker. Like there's some some things that, you know, need to be sort of taken into consideration. But like sometimes the the most unsuspecting whiskey can turn out to be the best boilermaker you've ever had. Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pint Podcast. Once again, I'm here, your host James. And for a second week running, I'm joined by Liz. I'm so excited to be back.
Speaker: I know, I know. and we We did weigh up other options and yeah and there were none. Yeah, well, that doesn't surprise me. No, I'm sure you have people really keen. no, the hotline was buzzing with people going, who is this new talent you've unearthed? So it was great. Oh, that's lovely. Yeah. Who was it, one?
Speaker: There wasn't anyone. So not one person went, oh, didn't mind listening. but I'm sure you sent me a message about it. Anyway, welcome back, Liz. How's things been? that Oh, yeah. Did you taste any delicious beer since I saw you? Oh, I did, actually. I did um the ah Pink Boots sensory evening. Oh, you did. That's right, with Tina Pannuts. It's one of our guests from a few months ago. How was that? It was awesome. I'd never done one before. Normally, I play ladies tennis on a Wednesday night, so I can't do it. But, um yeah, I got rostered off for the week, so I signed up and tried
Speaker: ah German pills. It was all about um hops in beer. Yeah, you sent me the fact that there was a black IPA in there as well, I think. Yeah, Had a good old skylight from Molly Rose. Yeah. Yeah, it was delicious. learnt...
Speaker: I learnt stuff. Excellent. I guess that's the whole idea. You were learning from, you know, the queen of sensory herself. yeah. It was awesome. My favourite thing was, like, I kept a little bit of each beer and then at the end went through and tried them all. thought going to say blended them all together into one and just scald it. No, no. Yeah, and it was really interesting to actually, like once the beers had warmed up a little bit and then trying them all one after the other, I could really taste the difference in the hops from the different regions. That's great. Yeah, no, I, it was fascinating. And you said you're playing ladies tennis. How does that differentiate from tennis?
Speaker: Well, if Eastern Districts comp, only females, and we have supper afterwards, and it's not very competitive, and we're grade 12 out of 13. Oh, there you go. yeah you got promoted at some stage. Yeah, yeah. No, we went up to 11 and got absolutely smashed. So yeah we've come back to 12, and we're pretty happy there. Imagine how good they must be in grade one.
Speaker: Yeah, I'll never get there. I'll never, yeah. Excellent. Well, um back to the task at hand. Yes. um the week The week in Crafty before we get to the main main guest this week. um And there was some hopefully good news for Victorian brewers, ah region regional brewers, I believe, um with a pledge of $3 million dollars from Labor. I mean, it is that time of year where we're a few months out from the the state election. yes So I'd imagine lots of these pledges will be getting thrown around. um But, you know, I think these are always welcome news. I think, you know, beer has often tended to be a little bit of the um the forgotten part of of the booze world when it comes to these these sort of ah offerings. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think with, was it that where they got the most expensive beer in the world? could have it It's up there. i don't think it's the most expensive in the world, but, the you know, the taxes are the taxes are high. Beer is expensive. There's a lot of challenges. um yeah And I think, you know, with people being a little bit tighter with their money, you know,
Speaker: being a bit more careful where they spend. And the idea with the $3 million dollars is to promote taproom and cellar door and tourism activities, get people out and about. I think there's been something similar um within the Victorian um spirits distilling industry for the last few years as well. Obviously, it depends on Labour getting back in. So I'm you know i'm sure there'll be a whole raft of announcements they're making. They're also, this was part of an announcement about funding for live music in the regions and regional festivals as well. um But I think the the main thing, I guess, from my perspective, I guess I do sometimes wear the IBA hat as well. I've been on the board of the IBA for the last few months. it's ah the
Speaker: The IBA are going to partner with the Victorian government to deliver it Oh, that's good. And so um I think, you know, there's been a lot of work going on for a number of years from the IBA with advocacy, with speaking to governments, and it does feel like they're starting to get some headway. There was there was ah a much smaller grant um in Tasmania to get the Tasmanian ale trail up and running again. Oh, yeah. I think there's announcements coming from other parts of the country. But, you know, ah obviously the the three million of needs to come through. But there was also some success with a set of a Victorian craft beer and cider strategy. and They're looking for people to put together a sort of industry group to to guide that in Victoria as well.
Speaker: um So it just feels like, A, hopefully, you know, this happens. um But also it's kind of like hopefully it means that independent beer and craft beer is being seen as, you know, it It exists yeah and it's it's worthy of support. you know so but and i think you know and in In the spirit of independence, and I know one, I'm sticking in Victoria again, but ah Bridge Road Brewers, been around 20 odd years now, they're launching a new version of their Beechworth Pale Ale or Mid-Strength, but um that's sort of just part of what the the campaign they've launched called Worth It, um which is all about i think getting to communicate the story of independence and ownership in beer.
Speaker: Yeah, well, it's just so exciting to see a beer company, an independent beer company with some money to do marketing. Like I am literally like waiting because you, you know, told me about this and then I'm searching online trying to find the ad and you know, what it, what the whole campaign actually looks like. Cause I've just seen the really cool billboard, yeah um which obviously went out for the press release. But yeah, I can't wait to see what they've created with a budget. Yeah, well, that's it because I do remember, you know, the early days of you and working with us on Pine of Origin going, oh, so I'd like to do this, this and this. Oh, I remember. And I'm like, Liz, we have this oily rag over here and it's a bit smaller than the oily rag we had last year. Remember when I suggested a whole tram that was a keg that had like, that looked like the Pine of Origin? I'm like, yeah, surely you can do this. Yeah, well, no, but that's the dream, You've got a dream. That dream. it just comes down and then down and then you get stealthy and you get creative and you do a little guerrilla marketing and...
Speaker: Wham, bam, thank you, ma'am. And then hopefully you bring it back up again. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So anyway. Okay, so it's coming back up, is it, Jay? Hopefully, hopefully. Hopefully. But yeah, it'd be great to see. I think, you know, yeah obviously it's going around Bridge Road. They're asking, are we worth it are we worthy of your money? you know im And promoting the Beechworth Pale and the Mid and the the Zero and Alc. Beechworth Pale Ale they have out there. but at the same time, hopefully it does put a bit of a sort of spring in the step of people that do, you know, care about craft and independent breweries or other brewers to go, hey, that's good to see, you know, you know because generally that sort of bigger world of and beer marketing is owned by, you know, often you'd only see um craft brands up there if they're the ones that are no longer independent, you know, who have... More money behind them. So yeah, best of luck to to bridge over that. absolutely. You know, we'll have to keep an eye out and see where it pops up.
Speaker: It's going to awesome. I love their beers. There you go. Yeah. I love Beachwear. I love their brewery. Love everything that we're out here. I'm sure I'm going to love the campaign. Yeah, yeah. And you've actually been doing bit stuff with the Brunswick Brew Pub in relation to an upcoming event in our beer club as well. Yes, with the Cabal. I just went oompa poompa. Is that right?
Speaker: I think it's called an umpah package, but you can call it an umpah pumper if you like. An umpah package, yes. At least you didn't do a little dance from like you know Willy Wonka while you were saying it. A little bit of a sanity there. They're not actually... Are they umpah loompahs?
Speaker: But the way you said that just got me thinking of Oompa Loompa, doobity-doo. No. yeah um yes people It's been a long week. Yes. life Cabal members can win a $70 package for their event happening couple of weeks' time at the Brunswick venue. Brunswick Brew Park indeed. Yeah, I think you get a Stein and a fill of the New Oktoberfest beer and what have you. We'll include a link to that, but otherwise jump online at craftycabal.com. a whole bunch of stuff going on there, giveaways and festival tickets and stuff. Yeah, we've got, yes, pretty full right now. This is pretty full, keeping you busy. Yeah, yeah, good.
Speaker: And let's step outside of, you know, Victoria, i been so so myopically local. and we We had the latest Sydney Royal Craft Beer and Cider Show Awards last week. I think that's the right title. They changed the words around a little bit last year or the year before, and I still get confused.
Speaker: um And that was run, the awards I was run in conjunction with the Distilled Spirits Awards at the same time for the first time this year, um which is kind of handy for us now that we operate in both spaces. yeah Although when I was doing the results articles, ah i was like trying to write them a bit differently. So prioritising the spirit stuff higher up in the full measure article and changing the photos around and tweaking things. And then I'd be like, which website am I working on now? Which to which tab have I got open? um which can get a little bit confusing. But, um yeah, so Reckless Brewing from Bathurst, um we we got them on the podcast, I think it was last year, on on the back of their latest Triumphs at, it was Australia International Beer Awards.
Speaker: And it was kind of like... talked about them, you know, the whole story, but also how they do keep doing so well at awards. There are a number of – one of those brews that does seem to keep winning. And it was their stout took out the best in show there. It was actually quite funny because when we did the podcast with Grace and Jared at their brew pub, they had to pause at one stage because even they were closed, one of their regulars, this older chap, would come in and he wanted to buy two cases of stout. And so we had to sort of – we left in, I think, at least for the social post, maybe for the whole show, left it in while one of them went to serve him. And he goes – Best bloody start in the world. And we were just talking about how they win all these awards for their trophies. They did really well again. mean, with it being the New South Wales Awards, most of the entrants are from within state, but it was cool to see some regional winners who hadn't entered before. More beer, who are based up in Port Macquarie. Welder's Dog from Armadale. Thirsty Crow from Wagga. So it's always nice to see a few, you know,
Speaker: ah regional lesser seen names, getting getting some awards. Yeah, absolutely. um And also Young Henry's, they picked up a trophy but in spirits. Do you remember when we did the Australian, yeah the name right, Australian International Spirits Awards, where we went to in July, there was a number of breweries who distill or people who who have been in brewing and now distill picked up golds and trophies there. There's a lot golds like Last Street up in Beechworth, which we know you love. Yeah.
Speaker: um And also Danny, who's the founder of Two Rupees, he's now got Dutch Rules Distilling. He picked up a number of golds. Noodle Doof got a gold for one of their... I like Noodle Doof Yeah, you like Noodle Doof as well. Okay, Liz, you just just to love everything. um So it's kind of interesting to see, i mean with that Young Henry's one, it was actually a collab they'd done with Esther Spirits for a single malt whiskey. Okay. But I think, you know, it is kind of interesting to see that cross-pollination between brewers, distillers and the two industries, you having that common ground. Yeah, that's really cool. It makes sense. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, with when you have your Molly Rose hat on, you know, Nick loves making his pastis and various other spirits at Molly Rose. I love pastis. If you want to talk about things I love. Yeah, yeah. Yes. No, it's awesome. Yeah. Doing the different spirits and then different cocktails at the bar using the housemaid spirits and everything. Do you get to be a part of the sort of the tasting panel, the approval panel for what's coming out of his little Willy Wonka tool? Yeah, always walks around with little tasters and like, what you think of this? When he made his tiramisu spirit, that was, yeah, high on the list to try. Yeah? Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah, absolutely. Ask us what we think. Yeah. Does different blending. Well, think that's what you find. A lot of people who get into this, they're into flavour as much as they are into one particular category, I suppose. Yeah, playing with flavours, seeing what you can bring out of different ingredients. Exactly. And before we get on to having a chat about our main interview guest this week, have an article on the site as well this week about...
Speaker: about this little area around us here Liz. It's our latest Crafty Crawl. It's focused on the breweries that exist within Brunswick. Oh, and what are those James? I'm not going to try and list them all now because I might forget all that, but I can tell you that we're within about what, a second walk of subculture. which would be one of the newest ones here just around the corner. There's Foreigner, there's Co-Conspirators, there's Rocky Road, Keeper, Pilsner, there's a whole bunch of them. You are listing them. Yeah, yeah. We've already mentioned Bridge Road.
Speaker: Yeah, we'll we'll actually put this together. he left me left me a few articles before he went on his honeymoon and I've been trying to hold on to them as long as possible just to sort of you know, when when I ah need them. He's back next week. back next week and I'm finally using the last of the articles he left for me this week. So thank you, Will. It helped get me through this this far. And how long has he got to, like, come back and settle in before he needs to write the next article? I plan not to be here on Monday, so ideally by lunchtime on Monday.
Speaker: We'll leave him a very long task list. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, so it was quite a while before there was even, you know, single brewery in Brunswick, which kind of seems bizarre now, given the nature of the area and how expansive it is.
Speaker: But, you know, you could probably do a separate, probably one or two venue-based, you know, crafty crawls of of the region. But Brunswick breweries-wise, it's certainly got plenty that we should probably get out to at some point rather than just sort of, you know, yeah working working.
Speaker: Going home to our families. Yeah, true. um Well, no, we should go home to our family. At some point. They're important. Doesn't mean we can't stop. Oh, yes, I did have a big question from last week anyone was listening. Yes. Because you and Tara went to Hotel Lombardo on Friday afternoon. Yes. Did you split the G? no Oh.
Speaker: Lame. Because it wasn't a Melbourne black. No, but i didn't want to, you know, that that that was that was your thing. wanted to go and do... It's not my It's the world thing that I've copied. and split the at Lombard. And I i had a um ah bent spoke crankshaft um and then we decided to head down the road. i Actually, no, we came back to the office and had some of the drinks that were here, actually. I wanted to show my friends the office, so we just ti dug into the ah office supplies. Don't tell the others, though. don't Hopefully they don't ever watch or listen to the podcast.
Speaker: No, we went they went to Bar Spontana and had a lovely time. yeah so you know yeahm Yum, yum, yum. Which is a reasonable segue, as they were recent guests, Josh you know and josh Hodges from Bar Spontana. And this week's guests, i guess again, sort of um fairly i guess iconic you know important figures within the melbourne hospitality scene so brooke and jules they've been running whiskey and ailment in cbd for think it's been under that name for about 13 years now prior that it was shea regime um started off as a sort of cocktail bar then they really really got into whiskies then they got into boilermakers um it's won number of trophies yeah you know awards are here and overseas for being just an awesome whiskey bar. So we brought them on to have a chat about their story, Jules' previous career in circus. Really? Yeah, and about how Brooke was kind of… What did he do on this? Oh, is that, that's for the podcast. He didn't want to talk about it a huge amount. But I think Brooke was sort of the entrepreneur, you know, 23 when they were working elsewhere, saw the opportunity to buy this space that had been a, had a 5am license, you know, in the CBD and where they've taken it, you know, and the incredible events they've done over the years. And obviously we talk about hospitality. We talk a bit about the love of whiskey and the travel.
Speaker: Chinese whiskey is becoming a bit of a thing at the minute. um Jules is not long back from China trying some incredible stuff over there. And, But also the Art of the Boilermaker as well. So if you want to get a bit of an insight into how they go about pairing and beer and and whiskey, we we surprise them with a bit of that as well. Nice. So, yeah, it's good fun.
Speaker: Exciting. Yeah. Can't wait to listen. Yeah. And, you know, each week now I feel I have to throw some other sort of curveball into the chat because of you. Yeah. Will's away, Liz is in charge. Surprise people. So yeah, that's coming up after the break. So hopefully enjoy that. Liz, you know, Will is back next week. Will's back. Yay.
Speaker: Oh, okay. So you're happy to just tune out? Oh, no. This is all right. This has been fun. This has been nice. I can come on every now and again. Yeah. Or maybe we could do one with you, me, and Will. You never know. Maybe don't need it anymore. Oh, wow. Don't change. And over to Will. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah. The Liz and Will show.
Speaker: Anyway, yeah, so Brooke and Jewel's up after the break. um Next we might have a bit of news about how we're going to change things up a little bit with the future scheduling and running of the Crafty Pint podcast. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: So that that's coming as well. um And actually we may there may be some news on the website, a bit of ah an update on a big story from recent weeks, which hopefully is too soon for me to say anything about now, but hopefully some good news in relation to a recent big story around Anyway, and thank you once again, Liz. um Enjoy the show. If you do enjoy the show, please like, subscribe, rate, review, send us your feedback, podpast, oompa poompa, oompa poompa at craftypint.com, podcast at craftypint.com. And um yeah, well see you next time.
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Speaker: Brooke, Jules, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Not at all. um And I think, you know, we're putting this out as a Crafty Pint podcast first and foremost, but I think we might, you know, cross-pollinate a little bit, Luke, onto... Bit of that today, for sure, think. um Given you are whiskey and ailment, and I guess also, to be perfectly honest, um I guess it played a key role in the fact the full measure exists as it does. As we said, you know, in one of the articles on the website at the start, you were sort of in my ear for a long time, Jules going...
Speaker: Speak to Luke. yeah like Someone needs to be doing what you're doing for beer in the spirits world. And then I think you were pecking Luke's head as well going, speak to James. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Absolutely. Instrumental. Yeah. These two, anything that good in my life that I've done in my adult years, it's pretty much down to these two, I reckon. So... um I'm assuming Katie as well at some point. Live with that. Yeah. Oh, that's it, interview done. And also sent us this this beautiful bottle of whiskey as well, which we we get to crack. So thank you very much for that. But anyway, on to the show. um
Speaker: Jules, i understand you're freshly back from a ah tour a trip of China. Yeah, I was really lucky to spend seven days over in Sichuan province. The main city is Chengdu where we sort of based ourselves out of and we went and visited two. um Single malt whiskey distilleries both opened up in 2021 and some amazing things going on over there um just in terms of the the volume, um the way that you know They're sort of taking in as much as they can from other parts of the world and how whiskey is made there and then sort of trying to give it ah you know ah an oriental flavor um on top of that. And i think you know that's only going to that's going to take time. But um yeah, it was really amazing to see how things are developing and just how...
Speaker: how fresh the market feels there and ripe the market feels for for this, for for whiskey to to happen there. So like it's very much in its infancy, but yeah, we'll talk more about it if if you if you so desire. Tell us about the craft beer, the scene that's happening there because I read a fascinating piece in ABC News recently about craft beer exploding in China and how that's changing, you know, parts of society. there Did you see any of that? Yeah. ah So like beer drinking culture there is very much just, you know, your stock standard lagers. And um I even saw that 7-Eleven have their own line of craft beer. Inverted commas. I'm doing inverted commas in there.
Speaker: A 7-Eleven craft beer. They had like a wheat ale. They had a 7-Eleven pale ale. They came in 500 mil cans that like with craft labels, you know, paper stock on them and stuff like that. But we did meet up with a guy in a hot pot restaurant who a Michelin star hot pot restaurant down an alleyway. And then a woman waved at us and go, no, no, down there further because we wanted a big room to ourselves. Yeah. And N-Beer was the brand that we had and they had all these incredible names for their beers. And I said, how can it be, you know, a deep fried chip lager? And he's like, no, no, no, it's just a name. It's a name because... We want you to go, that's weird. also sort of have the idea of, you know, I'm just having some greasy chips on the side and this is the beer that I'm going to have with it. But, you know, all sorts of like smoothie sort of styles that like, you know, we were sort of saying before that they might sort of like slop out of the glass, you know. mentioned the wheat beer. think that's the...
Speaker: b i think that's the pretty big in that whole region of the world. and often I think the last few years at the Aebers, there's been a few Chinese Hefeweissens wheat beers have picked up trophies or um golds along the way. But there the last pint of Origen, which we'll probably touch about with your involvement in a bit, but um' We had the Chinese venue there and they just with the pack some packaged stock and it was incredible. like you know the the The flavors they're adding to pale ales or IPAs and yeah the the smoothie ciders that were sort of coming in chunks out of cans, sort of you know scooping them out of your glass. So it it is interesting to see it sort of taking you off there and having that spin. And going back to your saying about that with the whiskeys, or you know what would their sort of spin be to to make their whiskeys more Chinese? you know What are they trying? Yeah, so um a couple of things. So some of them are using a portion of Chinese-grown barley. And the Chinese-grown barley grows up closer to Tibet. um And it's very low yield. It's high protein. so And they've said straight away, they were like, it's about flavor. It's not about yield here. So that was a really interesting one. And the other sort of key point was about using local casks. So one of them uses Huangzhou casks, which is like a Chinese rice wine, yeah a yellow wine. And they do a dry and they do a sweet version of that that's been aged in casks. So the whiskey goes in there. And also the use of Chinese oak, sometimes known as Quercus Mongolica. But there's all sorts of different... um That's a great... What was that phrase again? Quercus Mongolica. That sounds like an O.C.' 's album title. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: So, yeah, all these different um breeds of of oak tree are being used to make casks for whiskey and it's pretty. So you're going bringing some of that stuff over was that Was that the plan for the trip or was it just like, Brooke, I'm just going on holiday and leaving you to run things over here? no, I'm just going for dumplings and coming back. but There was an Australian entourage that went over. It's already imported into Australia. yeah Cool. Fantastic. It was more of a like, yeah, come and see how it's done.
Speaker: There were eight people, I think, from mostly from Melbourne that they headed over. That's right. it's we've The first time we heard Chinese whiskey, we were a little bit skeptical, as you would be And then we tasted it and we were blown away. So it was on par with scotch.
Speaker: better than some Scotches out there. Can I say that? Yeah, wow. And at that age as well, it was insane. So um we gave it to the team. We taste every Monday and they were blown away as well. So we've been selling huge volumes of Chinese whiskey. You still do get the person that comes in and says, I'm looking for a whiskey that's petered. And i say, look, there's Chinese. No, don't even. No, the brief was Scotch. yeah But since then. I was skeptical too, but I'll tell you what, you've won me over. so there you go. So I guess you wouldn't necessarily have expected when you started on this you know journey and the you know you'd be hawking Chinese whiskies to people. But just to sort of, and for people that don't know whisky now, don't know your story, let's sort of take a step back to the start. um
Speaker: I guess before it became Whiskey and Almond, you had Chez Regime. So what was the, and if maybe you'll just go a bit further. what What were you doing beforehand? I know you were sort of a bit of a hospo lifer, Jules. Hospo lifer as well. yeah yeah Yeah. I thought there was something else. I've made a dollar, let's put it that way. Okay. But but what what were you doing where you didn't make a dollar perhaps? so Wasn't there another another life before a hospo? There was a try at performing arts life, yes. um I did ah three years at Western Australian Academy of Performing Arts studying dance training there, so ballet and contemporary. And then I did a degree in circus arts, so trained as an acrobat. And um Brooke and I were working at a nightclub in Collins Street together for a few years.
Speaker: and were you Were you like acrobat and pole dancer in the nightclub or were you working behind the bars? Just the bar. In that It was a house during that night. Yeah, it was. It was. um But now the – Brooke was the real sort of entrepreneurial type um that that really sort of went out on her own I suppose. So I just i just followed along for the early early part of things and you know when there's that level of excitement of course you're going to follow along but um I turned out being the only employee for a little while. And so what what was your first vision for your first bar then? Yeah, look, it wasn't a vision to be honest. Like I, I, my parents were in small business. My, my grandparents were farmers. Um, and I just love the idea of stepping out creating something, uh, something different. I like, uh, I guess I have a creative side to me, but unlike Jules, I didn't practice. So, um, yeah, I wanted to create something, but I was, I'd always walk.
Speaker: with Jules up to Nika where he studied circus arts and I'd sit down to cafe, read the newspaper and newspaper sounds so old school. And even more old school is those, the adverts for businesses and you get the little adverts and one of them came up and it was like, um, Greek cafe bar, 5am license, extremely cheap. Yeah. And so I just thought, you know, at that stage, 5am licenses weren't purchasable. So that was value in itself.
Speaker: So I went to have a look at it Nobody else was offering. So we, I mean, I was so naive back then was 23. Wow.
Speaker: And so we put a little offer in and my mum made some curtains and we just opened it up. Had some friends in to come and scrub the bathrooms. Yeah, and then we opened it up and then we sat there. I think I remember sitting there, you and I, until 5am.
Speaker: Well, you got license. Probably two people walking in maybe. like And then hit ah we're lucky because it took off with hospitality. So we'd get ah like i was just creating menus. I'd sit from Monday to Wednesday researching whiskey. and researching like cocktail history, writing cocktail menu, which I'd never had experience in. I was completely new and naive. Researching beer, anything, spirits, like beverage sort of focused. But whiskey really took our fancy because we noticed, Jules and I, that it was it had the flavour breadth of wine, but nobody gave at that time of day or nobody had studied it. There was no school to do that yeah except for in Scotland. So we it was something that really,
Speaker: We saw potential in, didn't we? Yeah. yeah and And what was the focus of the bar then? so we you know it couple has Cocktails. Cocktails. Cheap drinks it became. yeah i did, yeah. and yeah think we ah we we i think one of the first things that we noticed was that we were charging huge margin. and we At the time, we had, I think the wages for the for the week were $800 for two of us to have the bar open for a whole week. And so um we realized we didn't need these huge margins and, you know, we wanted to try all these whiskeys and they were just, they were unnecessarily expensive. And I remember we we decided that, well, why don't we make our whiskeys every like cheap, everyday and cheap? And it sounds really simple now and really obvious, but at the time, no one was doing it. yeah um I guess our periodic trade regime was conceptualising what we wanted to do before we relaunched. and so we It sounds like you were doing a bit of everything when said, I was researching this and this and this and this. So you were giving yourself the full breadth of education from beer to cocktails. It was market research, I guess. We were sitting down and figuring out what we wanted to do and and and where we wanted to go. and At that time, we had of research. all of Melbourne's hospitality coming in from three to five and we were extremely busy and they would just order whatever they wanted and they would we'd make it.
Speaker: Yeah, I remember those nights vividly when I rock in at sort of 2012. Definitely, you got you know, Shay had a reputation then and yeah those nights. Maybe you can talk us through what happened as you moved towards the launch of Whiskey now and Armour, the thinking behind it, and I guess how bartenders and boilermakers were involved in that story as well.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely. So we had already been by 2012, we'd really sort of made a conscious decision that we were going to start um bringing in more whiskies every week to the bar. and And this was a great thing because it gave you a talking point. It gave you something to give to your customer more than just a drink. You could give them a little bit of information, try this new thing.
Speaker: It's not going to be really expensive. And before you know it, you've got a reason for them to come back as well. And did you have regulars already that you, you know, or was that how you created regulars? regulars, I think, were the hospo. Okay. And the hospo were coming in for a cheap drink after work and they knew that, you we were of the same sort of generation as them, you know, and so that was the easy part. But then we started to give them something. which was a new whiskey that they hadn't tried or couldn't afford usually and a little, you tidbit of information. We might challenge them with a little blind tasting. Hey, I'm going the loo and make me three blind whiskeys and, you know, we'll talk about what they are afterwards, you know, just for fun like that.
Speaker: And that gave us enough momentum to be able to keep buying new bottles and that's the spice of life, absolutely, is being able to buy new stuff. Like we we've made a...
Speaker: We've noticed that there were no whiskey bars within Melbourne, obviously, and nobody was doing it within Australia or anywhere in the world that we've seen. So educating people, we we saw this huge potential to educate the customer, serve them a drink that was, I guess, pubs were serving Legable and 16 at around about $18 in 2010. We were serving it $7. Wow. Because we thought, like, we didn't need the margin. They didn't need to be charging it at 120%, but they were because it was seen as a luxury item. Yeah.
Speaker: So opening up that and then I think the hospitality then their excitement led to them talking to their customers and sending them in. So we saw this natural progression and growth very, very quickly, which then i guess made like was behind the decision to to renovate and then go full ball with Whiskey and Helmet. And so we the Boilermakers must have been part of it as well then, given the ailment was in the title. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. So it was actually a customer who named the bar, though. Okay. Because he was, yeah, it was. which We were so customer-led back then. Yeah, right absolutely. And...
Speaker: Yeah, the the beers, look, our beer menu back then was pretty embarrassing. But the beer back then was pretty standard. Yeah. we had We had nearly all the crafties. I remember when I walked in, I was just like, I was trying beers that I'd never experienced before. that have been true for a lot of people coming in, right? Absolutely. i remember Jaya Glaskin from Little Creatures. He was he was very much the yeah the evangelist ah in the in the craft beer world and we used to sort of joke, you know, oh wouldn't it be amazing one day if you could get a Little Creatures at the MCG? And it's happened, right, you know? and And people used to laugh at us when we said that, you know, and it it happened. And so like the brands that were around, right, like around them were sort of like yeah a lot of the Matilda Bays. There was the White Rabbit was like up and coming, you know. um And I think being there at the outset for that was, you know, and having our real discovery phase around that time was just a real sort of
Speaker: Good bit of timing. But I think also for being more part of the hospo and the bar scene rather than being you know a craft beer pub, you'd have been putting those drinks in front of a different audience as well. Because a lot of the people that we to dealt with ah early on with the Crafty Pint, whether it's the Royston, some of the venues that are gone now, or the local tap house, they're very much pubs. And yeah they were putting...
Speaker: good beer on in a place where you'd expect beer. Whereas people were going into your place, this cool city bar, where yes, you can get all these you know amazing whiskies and cocktails, but also, hey, have you tried this beer? you know So you would have been touching a different audience, I guess, you know with with that side of what you were doing.
Speaker: Yeah, the the the Boilermaker matchings where people hadn't seen that before. yeah so so there hadn't really been anything of that going on at all Melbourne? Not that we know of, no. There's a new way to explore whiskey as well because people, you know, it's pretty heavy going if you haven't drunk, spirit like, neat spirits at that point. And we were serving in a copper glass, which most people are used to ice and ah and a rocks glass. So to sit the beer beside it and say, now, taste this, now try it.
Speaker: We did have a lot of people pour the beer whiskey. The traditional boy maker. And theyd they'd look devastated when you say it. It's okay. It's not the way we'd do it. pour you another whiskey. It's going to be mixed by the time. Yeah, exactly. This has taken me back now. weve thought about that in a long time. That's hilarious. But I guess like flavor exploration was what we were all about. And then beer complements whiskey so much. I mean, it just is a natural progression for us. And then being able to cleanse people's palates. I think for a time there we had...
Speaker: beer was it we had a beer on and we're just serving ponies we just had ah a tap in the bar to serve Fury and Sons yeah ya yeah to to serve ponies a bit just so you can have that little tiny cleanser in between and it's just the way it it changes the whiskey and the beer changes as well with the the um Like with the whisky, it's great. And I'm assuming that word of mouth would have spread about this as well and that would have brought a fresh wave wave of people in as well then and justification to buy even more whiskies? Yeah. I'm assuming you must have had to redesign the back bar a few times because like there isn' there is not a spare millimetre on there that isn't covered by a different bottle now, isn't
Speaker: I think the 2013 renovation was probably the big one. like we we Absolutely. Oh, so you knew what was coming. You're like, if we're going to do this, we need. We had a collection at home that was, you know, like filling up our cupboards and drawers and rooms at home. And so. And the whiskey. Yeah, whiskey was about to take off. Dave Fatale was coming in with investors to Chez Regime to to show them whiskey bars in the city. yeah We were Chez Regime. We weren't really always. Yeah.
Speaker: Pretty poor whiskey bar at that stage, think, like by standards these days. But, but yeah, you we were talking to so many people. I think every second day we'd have somebody come in and say, look, we're about to open a new whiskey distillery in Australia. Yeah. like You just, you couldn't ignore that. Yeah. And then so in 2014 when things started to really ramp up, 2013 I think, you know, I hardly remember any of that year because it was so busy and so intense. was thinking you were so drunk on all the whiskey. No, no, no. No, honestly, we couldn't have been because we were working that hard. We were so busy. The Saturday nights in particular when Jules had to like pop outside and become a bouncer because we were that busy and Brooke and I and Ev would be trying to man the fort. And you're all guys and you're all in your 20s as well.
Speaker: And you're like the font of all knowledge for whiskey in in Melbourne, I guess, you know. You know what? we were I look back now and I'm like... We were stuffing up ah a bit of stuff. We were. But as long as you say with confidence. Yeah. well And the liquid's good. I still remember a woman coming in and saying, can I please have a Glengarry? And I was like, ah I don't have that one. And she's like, yes, you do It's there. And I was like, oh, you mean Glengarryock? And yes, it's Glengierty. Oh, okay. Yeah, sure.
Speaker: There you go. And so like things like that, you learn on the job and and and you learn through going to these distilleries and going to these places. And that's really been the the best part of it, I think, hasn't it? Yeah, maybe you could talk to us about that because that is huge. I mean, you you especially were really keen on spending as much time in the UK, in Europe, and then later Japan. Talk to us about how ah you've been able to manage that and what it's given both you two and then the bar. And I guess Melbourne, as a result, bringing all that knowledge and bringing those whiskeys back too. 2012, when we first, was it 2012? 2011, we first went to
Speaker: it test myio Tasmania? And Scotland. And Scotland. so We did them both. we went down We flew down to Tassie. We really needed a holiday. And it was just three days, I think, or something like that. And Jules had been watching The Gourmet Farmer. And he absolutely loves that show. And so he'd seen Bill Lark on there. And he'd given... Somehow we got Bill Lark's number. And we gave him a call. And he said, oh, I'm free tomorrow. Meet me for a coffee and I'll take you out for the day. And we're like... Okay, but this guy seems really hospitable. yeah And at the end of that day, without getting into too much detail, it's going to incriminate people, we we had witnessed the most hospitality we had ever being given by a distiller anyway. like It was... it was
Speaker: Second to none, right? Bill was just so welcoming and it wasn't a sales pitch, which is so much about what we're receiving in Melbourne. He was excited to have these people turn up and go, we love whiskey. He was just excited to share. He just wanted to tell everyone and show everyone all the cool stuff that was going on. It was more of a lifestyle for him and I think that's when it clicked for us. We needed to get to Scotland to discover more, to find out what it was really like on Homebase. So we went over there and...
Speaker: The curiosity is is just what to like got us traveling. We decided that these guys needed, like our team needed to be there as well. So we, the next year, after we'd been to Bar Awards, we thought, we spent so much money here. it would be so much more fun to go to Tasmania. So we...
Speaker: set the budget and then Ev, Jules, Luke and myself went down. They're very naive. But the hospital the hospitality was second to none again, wasn't it Everybody let us in and they were asking our opinions and that's when I think that was a moment ah again where we learned actually because we're there is nobody else in Australia who's tasting this breadth of whiskey side by side, they're all...
Speaker: they all have their own distillery palette, they're all tasting the same thing over and over. So to put them on a scale really helps them develop their business. It reminds of early days with them the crafty pie as well. I had this vision for what it was going to be and I was going to go ahead with it anyway, but it would never fail to amaze me when you'd go somewhere and they'd be like, in you come.
Speaker: yeah All doors are open. yeah And i do think with some of the like the titans of the industry, most of them probably sold and moved on now. They probably were like, oh, this guy, he's he's a journalist. We can see that he's got some sort of madness in his eyes. yeah He's going to be useful to us. ah ah There may be an element of that going, we need to help him along the way. But it really did give me encouragement to keep going because it's like, oh, I'm being shown all these things. I'm learning so much and these people are so generous and the stuff they're making is so good. And it does kind of, you know,
Speaker: Yeah, it gives you that bit more get up and go to do what you want to do, I think. Yeah. I think when the doors keep opening, you just want to keep walking through them to see what's coming, you know. You just don't, like, it's hard to stop. And I'm assuming you've had a lot of people that you would have met come and visit you whenever they're Melbourne as well. be one of the first stops coming in, you know, and probably bringing you something as well when they come back, going out, you know, checking in on progress. Yeah. I mean, just two months ago, I think we had one of our customers came in and he'd been to Lai Zhou Distillery, which you just went to in China. He came back and he had all of these single casts and he's like, I've got to, first off, I think he arrived the day before. He's like, I've got to share things with all of you. Just the excitement to share something that-
Speaker: Turns out he's also a mad German beer lover. There you go. A mad German beer lover. He's he's spotted ah a crate, a plastic crate that they carry the bottles with and return them with in Germany, an Augustina yeah one. He goes, oh, you haven't got the dunkle, do you? Like a madman, like a bounty hunter. Yeah. and I'd love to talk about some of the events as well from that period because some of them still stick in my mind as the greatest events I've ever seen. you know, had the pleasure of working on. um Obviously, some of those were were beer and whiskey focused.
Speaker: talk us about Talk to us about how that emerged and I guess the decision to put those events on and I guess the results of them too. Especially one with Garrett that I wish I'd... but I was festival director for beer week. And I did do an event with him that week. We did the Vaudemonde beer versus wine thing, brew versus crew, which was amazing. But I didn't go to that one. And even the photos that were taken with him and Miro just sat on the stools were so evocative. And I'm like, know, you have to juggle your time when you're running a festa with God knows how many events on. And I didn't go to that one. And it's it's one of those I'm like, that was a that was a moment missed. Yeah, it was one the best events ever.
Speaker: The way that the events really got started was when we were deciding that we were going to be a whiskey bar and part of the development was actually the Melbourne Rum Club. And the Melbourne Rum Club, um essentially what happened was it was for industry only and you they would put on a yeah a guest speaker, whether there it was a representative from a distillery or it was a representative salesperson. And they would talk about the the rums from that distillery and everyone would have a taste. And then there would be a little cocktail competition at the end for all the bartenders. And then, you know, that would be it. And we learned so much about the rums in that time, didn't we? And we really enjoyed meeting the the people from overseas. um
Speaker: and And that sort of went, well, why can't we do that with whiskey? yeah and And when we started doing that, we called it the Single Malt Collective. And we opened it firstly for HOSPO. And I remember we all of a sudden on a Monday night, we had 35 people, which is a full venue for us, turning up. And then we started, our customers, well, ah why can't I come to that? And before you know it, that we're we're running events. And so...
Speaker: and so Really, we were they were just extensions of products that we were serving at the bar already. And, you know, that that particular Brooklyn beer event, I didn't realise how important that was at the time. We were just doing what was fun. But you had probably the greatest character of the entire beer world come and hang out there, you know? Yeah. yeah Incredible. and And if you speak to Miro Bellini about that, he said that's the first time he'd ever seen a beer and whiskey matching event anywhere. And it was with Brooklyn and Garrett Oliver at your place. yeahs Yeah. Right? Unbelievable.
Speaker: So, yeah, we look back on that stuff and go, yeah, that was the the foundation of of the events as they sort of sit today. Yeah. yeah and and And do you see them as, you know, being...
Speaker: as important now or ah more important in terms of like driving audience and stuff like that? We know it's a pretty challenging time out there in HOSPO. Do they play a key role in bringing new people in or is it just it's the same faces turning up going, what have you got next? It's a bit of both. So a community is really central to what we do because we don't want people to just come in once and then leave. And it's not just a business decision. It is a personal decision. It's quite soul-destroying watching someone never want to come back your menu so um we and the people you meet is incredible are incredible as well so they're really important for the business but i think for the community when people come in once they get in especially in this time of ai and internet catching up face to face with people and having a few drinks is so important and i you can see it in people when they when they first sit down and they You know, they they're learning from someone who's just come from Scotland. is It's very, very different. Yeah. Well, Antonio is very, very different. I guess we tried something different with Pint of Origin a few years ago when you said, look, we'd love to be part of it. We've got no taps. We can't do pints. And I'm like, yeah, but we should be able to find where to do this since you've done, you know, Boilermakers the last few years.
Speaker: And it's gone off, hasn't it, as well? Like, they've been big successful weeks to for you. Like people queuing up at the door when you're opening kind of thing. um Tell us a bit about, you know, how how that's gone through the last few years. Because you've kind done theme boilermakers each year. love the way you've presented them with the menus and stuff you put out. But, you know, did that kind of surprise you how much of an appetite there was for that, good given you do kind of do that year round as anyway? Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, i'd I'd say it's it's really about um finding, you know, products that people can't usually get and products that we wouldn't usually do. and imported beer has become really quite um difficult to find, obsolete and even more difficult to put in a bar at the moment. And so we sort of stick our neck out for, you know, a certain amount of of stock that we have to front up early for and bring in on our own and, you know,
Speaker: I think that's the reason that it's, you know, had that bit of extra draw to it. Yeah. yeah And that that bit of extra sort of weight to it. I think also in the time where people are watching their wallets, to have one week where you can splurge is a really good way to go. so like And for us as well, to be able to know that that week we can just, we can pair for flavour, not for the price. And that's really exciting. It's, you know, especially as excise heads up and and those kinds of problems hit hit venues.
Speaker: We'll take a short break I'd love to come back and re-drill down a bit on Boilermakers. Yeah. Maybe even bring some liquid out. Sounds good. I'm excited. Put you to the test. All right. we'll take short break and we'll see you soon.
Speaker: Cheers. Hi, I'm Luke McCarthy, editor of The Full Measure, a new publication dedicated to Australian spirits, brought to you by the team behind The Crafty Pine. Australia has a thriving distilling scene and I'm excited to share it with you through regular stories, podcasts, interviews and plenty of delicious tastings. Whether you're into whiskey, gin, rum, brandy or cocktails, I can assure you that there's an Australian distillery to tempt your palate.
Speaker: If you love locally owned brewed craft we reckon you'll love some of the many Aussie spirits offer today. Check us out at fullmeasure.com.au or find us on socials at the handle at Full Measure Mag.
Speaker: Okay, we're back here with Brooke and Jules from Whiskey and Almond and we thought we'd have a bit of fun. um We're talking about boilermakers. So we've sprung this on you. We have a beer in front of us. I'm not going to tell you what the beer is, but we'd like to know what you think this would make a good boilermaker with, what sort of whiskey you would pair with this beer. have yeah Have you had a sniff yet? I haven't. looks a bit like Martzen X. ah I reckon a sniff might disabuse you.
Speaker: West Coast-y. Correct. Nailed it. no It's good. he's good Oh, first thing first, yum. Yes. It is delicious. That's really nice. Yeah, yeah. And if you if you someone said, to you I'm pairing a West Coast IPA, you go pair it with this, or do you have to have smell and taste the actual West Coast IPA to know the nuances and know what you'd pair it with? You can pair without, but you want to taste. Okay. yeah It's definitely beneficial to taste. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: So i think but particularly with the West Coast, you want to figure out how late the bitterness is because in the case of this one, the there's not a huge amount of late bitterness. It's not really like hanging on you a lot. So you can go first. You don't have to have a whiskey that, you know, is really powerful in order to fight the the bitterness. So like here, I reckon I'd almost like,
Speaker: want to go for like focus on that wonderful aromatic hoppy floral character. Yeah. So, but you need something with a bit of, a bit of weight.
Speaker: was going to say, I still want big malts. I still like old Pulteney or something that's really malty. That's just that clean lemony. Like it's got that kind of, there's nice citrus character to the beer. Yeah. Klein Leach, I think would do well with this as well. Yeah. Klein Leach could work. You're the host. You're the host. You're supposed to be showing. ruining the game. Sorry. You know, this is actually the way that a lot of these things transpire is, you know, it won't be just one person sitting there being like, right, I have to do the menu. We'll be there together, whether it's Brooke and myself or whether it's Brooke and Kayla. Or the entire team because when do have tastings on Mondays for whiskey, we'll often just crack out the newest beers and everyone tastes them. And then it's like, oh, our youngest bloke, Tony, is fantastic with flavour. He's so keen and he's just like, you've got to, this has to go with that. It just ends up on the menu because he just wants to recommend it. It's so good. And do you sometimes find that someone might throw a curveball in and you're like, nah, and then you try and it's like, oh, my God. Who would have ever thought? There's probably one particular element in the whiskey or whatever that –
Speaker: just you know deserves to be paired with that beer or whatever. There's no technical sort of rule set to make a Boilermaker. There's some things that you know need to be sort of taken into consideration but like sometimes the the most unsuspecting whiskey can turn out to be the best Boilermaker you've ever had. And I think it's really about sort of having the beer heighten particular elements of the whiskey and vice versa. So it's not that you're going to you know have complete harmony throughout and all of the the beer is going to appear the same as if you just drank it on its own. It should have some elements lifted in the beer by the whiskey. But if someone was playing at home and they've got, you know, a collection of even just, you know, half a dozen whiskeys whatever, they could just be a style and just have a little play and go and just, you know experiment that that way themselves. Have a play. Absolutely. And like, there's definitely a harmonious Boilermaker a match and then there's a contrasting Boilermaker match and And those you sort of need to pick which avenue you're going down, I think. So like I said, I probably went down the harmonious one before with this, you know, that floral hoppy character and those more elegant sort of nuanced vanillary characters from a whiskey are probably going to work here. But then you could also just, you know, rip it hard with a pated whiskey and, you know, some nice mineral sort of sandy beach, white sand character might might really bounce off nicely. Yeah. So...
Speaker: It's worth giving everything a try. And do you find that you you have customers who love boilermakers who you know they're sort of complementary boilermaker person and others who ah they prefer the contrast or you know they just like to put themselves in your hands and be guided?
Speaker: I think a lot of the time people like to... like it We have customers that like to pair themselves. They love the challenge. They like to have a bit of fun. And so they'll have ah they'll either be a beer drinker or a whiskey drinker. And so they'll pick their whiskey or their beer, what their comfortable category, and then they'll they'll start playing. or say, hey, what do you reckon about this with that...
Speaker: And they'll have a nose of the bottle because I think that's the biggest thing. If you're at home, have a little nose of the bottle. It's almost like blending in a way. So you'll you'll nose those things and the have a taste of the beer, have a nose of the whiskey. And that's how we we do it with customers. Like I'd love to try this with a Mizanara whiskey. I think it would be the wood and the like... And that little bit of incense character would be really fun with this. and yeah Jules might not like that, though. It's a pricey buy-the-maker if there's mizamara involved. Yeah. Flavor fast. Brooke's always had expensive taste. Yeah. Well, i'll have to I'll reveal what the beer is while I go and get the next one. it ah But actually actually, I should say, I'll bring the can in a sec, but that beer won Champion IPA in Sydney last night. And I just happened to have one that they sent me down a couple of weeks ago. So it's a pretty fresh can from Esker Beer Co., which is...
Speaker: So it's an Australian brewery was the original name. It's at this massive, like, um brewery and pub in the northwest of Sydney. They've got sports bar, pokey room, or whatever, but they've always made really good beers, and they rebranded to Esca two or three years ago, and they always win trophies. And this won Champion IPA last night, and I'm like, let's take it in. It is fresh. It's delicious. Yeah. yeah So there we go. I'll go and grab one more and see how we go. Okay.
Speaker: Okay, seamless cut having been put in by Matt. You'll never know that we've been running around doing stuff. You will wonder why fresh beers have appeared on the table. All right, beer number two for a Boilermaker pairing. you want to have a little swirl and a sniff and see what you think?
Speaker: Bit of roushy, isn't it? It is a bit roushy. Oh, it reminds me of the um the crank, shut no, the bent spoke. the They did a smoked beer. I forget.
Speaker: Anyway. um Well, it is it's it's a roushy style, but I think they made it to be a roushy style, but it's kind of Mattson as well. So it's not... fully smoky and dry. There's quite a bit of some malt sweetness in there as well. But yeah, just, you know, figured I had one of these fresh in the fridge as well. And it's like... Killer sprocket. That's what it was. Oh, yeah. Yes. Killer sprocket did a smoky, yeah. And they kept it as part don't know if it's still part their core range, but it was part of their core range for a long time. And no one else would have been doing that, don't think, in Australia. So... So where would you go with Obviously, you know, people, anyone that knows anything, even the tiniest bit about whiskey will be aware about sort Peter Stiles whatever. Would you do something like that with a beer like this or would you do something completely different?
Speaker: Generally not. yeah Generally, I wouldn't put smoke on smoke just because firstly, they're probably different smoke sources so they're going to taste weird next to each other yeah um ah that that would be my instant reaction i'd probably head more in a sherry cask yeah direction for this just for that richness and yeah probably that bit of extra um tannin on the from the from the timber would probably carry this better yeah it kind of turns a modern into a double book in a way when you have a sherry cask beside it because it's like really rich and sweet and then yeah that's great way yeah there you go Nice, well there we go um
Speaker: Love it. um And you know, I will have to hunt down some sherry cask. Well, and Luke, I was only kidding before. What would you pair this with? Oh, so I'm allowed to get a go, am I? ah buddy Oh, bloody hell. No, think that's a good shout. One of the things that, um in terms of contrasting flavors, You know, it's something that I think still has a lot of malt.
Speaker: Anytime you get smoke involved like that, or like smokier elements, you want malt, I think, to carry. So yeah, like any like ah one of any other big juicy Sherrycast Speyside. We used to pair, I remember Jules and I back in the day, We occasionally would just pair by flavor, not being cognizant of levels of ABV and things like that. We used to love doing, you know big heavy IPAs next to huge sherry cask cast drinks whiskeys. I remember one got a run for a couple of weeks and we were serving them out and going,
Speaker: Abelauer Abuna. Yeah. A 61% alcohol. A monster. Yeah. drinks and a yeah oh yeah yeah yeah but For the combo. Yeah. yeah But yeah, that'd be my pick. Something big, sherry cask and space. Oh, there we go. like Excellent. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: well because a yeah yeah That work. There we go No, well, thanks for that. So there you go If you're playing along at home, just have a play around or just go to Whiskey and Almond and do what I and say, jewels, what should I have? um Back Whiskey and Almond's story, I guess, as well, ah with which, you know, these are very central to. and Has the offering, has this the venue and offering had to evolve over time? Have have you noticed changing tastes over sort of, you know, whether it's in beer, spirits, you know, over the 13 years since it became Whiskey and Almond? Yeah, absolutely. we
Speaker: Things are always evolving and like we we actually aim to be ahead of of that and actually lead people's flavour. Hence China. Hence China. yeah oh You're absolutely right. And like a lot of people will go, why would I go there? My people drink scotch, you know. And and for me, that's it's an opportunity to say you need to try this. If it's no good, I'm not going to recommend it just because it's new. But, yeah, that's very much central to to us. We want to be there first. We want you to discover something new. so um
Speaker: But what we have seen people responding to of those new things that we bring back or bring in is that I suppose people are tending away from really high strength stuff now and for a while there it was all about extremes. yeah People wanted extreme smoke. They wanted extreme hops in their beer. They wanted extreme ABV from their quadruple, you know um quadruple ale, you know, that sort of stuff. And I feel like that's very much, um you know, jumped the shark now and and it's back to...
Speaker: you know, finesse, it's back to locality and it's back to really what are these particular producers' points of difference?
Speaker: Are they just, you know, copies of other brands and, you know, that that don't really have their own sort of unique qualities or yeah and people are really sort of honing in on what makes them special? And and that's and if you can't tell that story, then they're going to go and find something else. Yeah, definitely. yeah And just in terms of the Australian aspect of that, as because I think we've seen that very much so in Australian whiskey, you you'd probably say Australian craft beer as well. How do you think the, I guess, the the uptake on and the development of flavours but in Australian whiskey land has has changed in that space as well? I mean, you talk about, Bill, before your your earliest times in Tasmania, I mean, you've seen and, you know, you've been a part of driving some change as well with the bottlings that you've done. how have you seen the change and progression of, I guess, the Australian craft beer and Australian whiskey market in that time by sort of flavour and style?
Speaker: Yeah, I think certainly Ford was, I won't speak to beer, that'll be jewels, but Cask Ford in the Australian whiskey industry was where we were at the very start. Now we're pairing that back. We want to see a lot more of that malt and that grain character, particularly with Voyager malt, craft malt.
Speaker: And I think we're we're trying to accentuate that. And ah ah consumers, like we still do have the heavy port, sherry, pera, cask element. And we have drinkers that absolutely love that. it's it's But it's like saying dessert and then your entree. They're very, very different things. so we're seeing the market, the distilleries honing on what they are and who they wanna be and what they wanna accentuate out of their product.
Speaker: But yeah, when it comes to the beer world, you could probably speak to that more, Jules, I think, what we're seeing. I think it's's it's really getting back to those classic styles now and and doing the classic styles better than you ever have before rather than, you know, adding weird flavours on from, you know, the local fish and chip shop or from the local ice cream shop. You know, I think people are looking for that puritanical sort of...
Speaker: um authentic styling and authentic flavours now. That's that's really what I've noticed think there's still like the the novelty, if that makes sense, is back to being a smaller part of the industry, yeah you know, whether it's by necessity through, you know, tightened you know and titaned belts or whatever, but it certainly seems to be that way. I mean, we're still...
Speaker: getting beer sent out a way that's high ABV or, you know, fruited or, you know, something a bit different, but it's definitely less of that, I think, and more West Coast Pilsners or Classic Pilsners Classic IPAs or whatever, um which is fine by me. Yeah, yeah. I think Blackhearts and Sparrows has done this really well, the way they separate it into three categories. It's like I can't remember them exactly, but there's Guzzle, Explore, and then one of them's like for, you know, when you're really special occasion. yeah And i think that's And that really, that separates the market really well. Like if you, or it separates occasion very well. So you know you've got your everyday drinker, which are your lagers and things, and then you wanna explore a little bit, but it's not always.
Speaker: And then you've got your special occasion drink. yeah and has Has anything surprised you, whether it's within the venue, whether it's within the the wider hospice scene or or the booze scene, in the last 15 or so year years, you've been under your own steam at the bar?
Speaker: Anything that surprised Yeah, well, you know, has it all just been a sort of, a you know, obviously things are going to change, but has it been a sort of, oh, this kind of makes sense, we're going in this direction? Or have there been moments, or you do you look back and go, I never would have thought this, you know, maybe the Chinese whiskey thing, but on sort of hospitality screen there? I'm like a beagle. I just follow my nose. Figuratively and literally, yeah, where it's all just sort of like sniffing things out and being like, where, what is that? yeah what Is that of any interest to you? And that's still what drives you. i still You still have that excitement oh yeah but about what you do. don't play Pokemon. This is my Pokemon. Got to catch them all. Yeah, exactly right. I think i think there are a couple of things that are surprised. Not so much surprised, but have been um really poignant within the last 16 years. and i think one is excise. I hate to say it, but it has crept up. And like looking at it now, how much it is per litre of alcohol is...
Speaker: Just crazy. We knew it was coming, but I never forecasted and I probably should have. um COVID, I think looking at particularly beer, being a packaged venue, we were on that that, we were exploring so much, price didn't matter. We were sort of really, really enjoying all of these experimental beers. They got bigger, they got higher in ABV and then COVID hit and COVID ended COVID everybody had all this, well, we couldn't move the stock because nobody was going to a venue to pay $25 for a beer. It wasn't COVID that ended up up being the issue. No. It was the end of COVID and what's come since that ended up being issue that we're still working out now. yeah Yeah. And I think for us as well, ah the decline of the Scotch whiskey industry, it was very similar with the beer industry, I think, where everyone ramped up production, output, and then the end of COVID hit. Yeah. And we've got, you know, we always talk about the 1980s slumps in the whiskey industry and all these demolished and closed distilleries that couldn't exist or couldn't cope with that decline.
Speaker: But now we're we're in one right now. And I didn't think we'd be here to see one. Like I i just thought, oh, yeah, well, know, we'll look at... those not that that's fine' That's for the books. That's for the books. And we've lived through these things now. It's just, yeah... We're living history. and I keep um bringing this to my nose. The moment you very kindly gifted us when we moved into the office, would you care to tell us what we have in our glasses?
Speaker: So this is a whiskey by the Scotch Malt Whiskey Society. It's cask number 68.138. And it is from a little distillery near Pitlockery called Blair Athol. We're not really meant to say that, so... Hayley won't be listening. Is he listening? Oh, God. But the Scotchmolt Whiskey Society have been a partner bar of our, well, we've been a partner bar and very good relationship with them for 13 years now. So this is a bottling that we selected the cask for after sending back many a sample and saying, no, that's not interesting enough. No, that's too weird. And yeah, we settled on this one. And it's very fitting because I'm an absolute sucker for whiskey that's been matured in Saturn's casks. And this one is called Nuts About Saturn's. The weird part about this is it's not actually in a Saturn cask at all. It's matured in an Australian fortified wine cask.
Speaker: um it's it's very unusual for a Scotch to be matured in an Australian fortified cask and this barrel would have had to have been emptied and carefully stored and sent over on a boat and then quickly filled as is filled as quickly as possible. So it's ah it's a difficult thing to get right. Yeah.
Speaker: It just it's turned out smells like you want to just dive in and just sort of wallow around in it like it's so so luscious. And I mean, the partnerships that you guys have been to forge for years, love, but maybe if we have time, just quickly talk about that as well. The Scotchmont Whiskey Society, obviously your own thing with the whiskey set as well. The work that you've done with individual distilleries in Scotland and Australia, that must be the sort of stuff that keeps you going. And if you look back, I guess, over the last 15, 16 years, that must be pretty special. The friends and the businesses you've been able to work with and relationships you've been to maintain and grow.
Speaker: Yeah, I think the most rewarding part is we are probably quite humble and when you walk into a distillery and you share the information that we're hearing from customers and then you see them make a pivotal change in their production and you never, you know, you'll never be able to say that was us or, or you you know, but it's just, it's really rewarding to see that change made and then the success happen. I have to refer back to... I have to jump in here, by the way, and say you can spot...
Speaker: the amateur because everyone had a swirl and a sip and I had to do a little quiet cough because I'm like, oh yeah, it's 57.4%. I'm not used to having this kind of stuff. The rest of you are just like, it's it's all serene. And then I'm the one coming in. look that's Jesus Christ. That was me last week eating so eating hot pot. Pretending like I wasn't sweating. LAUGHTER Sorry, anyway, sorry for butting in. But, yeah, Jules, you were going to say in in terms of the, you know. You know, talking about these relationships that we have and, you know, and and passing on the information from one distiller to another who then goes, oh, wow, maybe I could use that little...
Speaker: tidbit of information in my in my distillery. We have to, we'd i'll be I'd be kidding myself if i that I didn't get that sense of sharing and that sense of camaraderie in the industry from Bill on that initial trip that we had, just how open he was and how much he wanted to share. And it very much, you know, is evident in the industry today. Everyone learnt from Bill Lark or they're being endorsed they've been endorsed by by him in their spirit. and um But that, I think, is...
Speaker: is what actually we probably now inadvertently aim to do at the bar every day. And the way that we want to treat our staff is, well, we're on this, we we get to do all these wonderful things.
Speaker: Well, we want you to come along and do that too. yeah you You deserve to be able to feel as empowered with information and to be able to influence others in the way that, you know, we we are and we do. and And, yeah, I think that seed was very much planted back then. Don't you? Yeah, I think it's yeah it's so rewarding. like I'm not ashamed to say that probably a large portion of my ex-staff or staff now have knowledge beyond mine, definitely beyond mine. We've just created a vehicle that allows people to learn, to grow and to to travel and to get excited by the industry. And I think that knowledge sharing is like without, I don't think there was a formal body. Like therere there was the ADA, but...
Speaker: there wasn't really a ah formal body within Australia for, i guess there's no university for distilling over here. So that that knowledge sharing is so important. and Yeah, people have to find their knowledge and inspiration wherever they can find it. Yeah, that's exactly I'm the beneficiary of it right here. example Looking forward, what's the future hold for Whiskey and Almond and what would you love to see for, um I guess, you know, the the craft beer, the hospo, the distilling scene in Australia?
Speaker: It's big question. It's everything. It's a tough question because, again, I'm just going say exercise. It's getting, you know, so the standard price of ah a Dramadale now would be, let's say, a house pour is $11 for a very basic blend, but then... To get something that is of quality, you're probably looking at $20. That's beyond a glass of wine now. So it's it's challenging times. where We're definitely looking forward at keeping the Walson Carts steady. yeah We're continuing to educate our team. We're continuing to to host events, meet people, meet people. diversify, trying to figure out ways to to bring the product to the customer in an exciting way, but keep it affordable. yeah And we brought back, we actually brought back this year, $15 boilermakers. yeah um
Speaker: And yeah, they've been fantastic. People are loving those as well. But um yeah. says You hear so much talking to people you know in the the beer industry with the who've got venues where it's like, we have to find a way to do like a $10 pint night, or whether when it's happy hour, or or do your you know your your your burger and pint for $25, whatever it might be. yeah it's a a time where you need to be adding value, you know and as well as all the lovely satiric stuff you do. you know It's just the reality of the times we're in, I guess. Yeah. think the ah the value thing is really important because, you know, we look back on these pre-COVID times and it seemed like everyone had the ability to play. And when we play, we learn, right? And so we learn about all these weird and wonderful things that we can put in our beer and and and and and play and and and learn through that. And then when after COVID, now it's about, well,
Speaker: Those things were really expensive to do and they, you know, only appealed to a few people. Now we have to knuckle down and make our product as cheaply as possible. And, you know, when we're getting products from China, for instance, they cost a half of what the Scotch does for the same sort of...
Speaker: value, same characteristics, same quality. yeah and um And maybe this is where the future is going to lead us is down that route of how efficient can I be? yeah And um and how how how authentic can I be within that, you know, constraint? And I think that's that's going to be really driving people. yeah and it's been i think it's been that situation for people for quite a few years now as well so you know obviously how much more innovation how much of uh how many more levers people can uh pull how many have how much cleverer they can get well the levers for for whiskey were pulled a couple of years ago but we're not going to see the outcome for some years yet we're but we're still living in that era of covert whiskey
Speaker: yeah That sounds crazy, but, yeah, we're still living in there, and so things will well whiskey does take time. Yeah. No, well, thank you so much for joining on the show. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on and to taste the whiskey. Also, I think you just gave me the title for the show, When We Play, We Learn. I think it's going be the title for the episode when it goes out. I was like, quick, write that down before you forget. But, yeah, thank you so much coming on, and best of luck for the next 13 years and more of Whiskey in Amelon. yes. Thank you. Thanks for having us and congratulations on the partnership. Cheers.
Speaker: Cheers.
Speaker: Crafty Pint Podcast is produced and edited by me, Matt Hoffman. For all partnership inquiries, please reach out to Craig Williams at craig at craftypint.com. To keep up to date with everything in Australian craft beer, head to www.craftypint.com.
