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Ep 152: Remastering Metallica Code with Raymond Davidson
14 Plays4 months ago
What does it take to make an old game feel new without losing the magic that was the original code of Metallica Pinball? Rayday is here to tell us all about it!
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Transcript
Introduction and Hosts
00:00:08
Speaker
Thanks for tuning into the Loser Kit Pinball Podcast.
00:00:10
Speaker
It is episode 158.
00:00:11
Speaker
I am Josh Roop.
00:00:13
Speaker
With me, my co-captain, as always.
00:00:15
Speaker
Scott Larson.
Metallica Remastered Release Discussion
00:00:16
Speaker
And there is a new-ish release, a remastered release.
00:00:20
Speaker
Let's do that.
00:00:21
Speaker
It's a revived release.
00:00:22
Speaker
Yes, brought back from the grave, which is appropriate because it's even got a cross in it.
00:00:26
Speaker
That's true.
00:00:28
Speaker
It's the Lazarus effect.
00:00:30
Speaker
If you're looking for this game, Metallica Remastered, who are you buying it from, Scott?
00:00:34
Speaker
You know, I'll contact Zach and Nicola, flipping out pinball.
00:00:37
Speaker
They've always been really helpful.
00:00:39
Speaker
And I'm not kidding.
00:00:40
Speaker
This game looks so amazing.
00:00:43
Speaker
If you, I've actually never owned a Metallica.
00:00:46
Speaker
And so I'm looking forward to actually owning this remastered Metallica.
00:00:50
Speaker
So I'm really excited for it.
00:00:52
Speaker
And with everything they've done to it, and we're going to talk about it, it really has made an old game look brand new.
00:01:00
Speaker
And so reach out to Zach and Nicole and the holidays are coming up.
00:01:03
Speaker
So tell them Loser Kid sent you.
00:01:06
Speaker
Use Loser Kid as a code or whatever.
00:01:09
Speaker
And they'll hook you up.
00:01:11
Speaker
Yeah, they'll give you a little something extra special is what they told us.
00:01:14
Speaker
So special we can't talk about here.
00:01:15
Speaker
Hit up Zach and Nicole and they'll give you something extra special.
00:01:20
Speaker
Also, if you're watching YouTube, I'm wearing my political shirt, my flippers and balls for 2024.
00:01:25
Speaker
Straight down the middle.
00:01:26
Speaker
If you want this shirt, because that's who you're voting for this year, then go ahead.
00:01:31
Speaker
Silverballswag.com slash loser kid.
00:01:33
Speaker
It's not our shirt, but you can get the shirt there as well.
00:01:36
Speaker
Are you team flipper or team balls?
00:01:38
Speaker
Always team balls, dude.
00:01:39
Speaker
Okay.
00:01:40
Speaker
All right.
00:01:41
Speaker
Especially if you're going straight down the middle.
00:01:43
Speaker
All right.
Guest Introduction: Raymond Davidson
00:01:45
Speaker
Introducing our guest.
00:01:46
Speaker
This man has been insanely on top of his game since moving to Stern.
00:01:51
Speaker
His code is excellent between classics already like Rush and now being able to take the Metallica code and refine it, but still have the nuances of Lyman and just treat it like it's just this perfect little thing that we all enjoy.
00:02:07
Speaker
Right.
00:02:08
Speaker
We've got with us Raymond Davidson.
00:02:09
Speaker
How you doing, Raymond?
00:02:10
Speaker
Hey, Josh, doing good.
00:02:12
Speaker
You know, and Raymond's actually a pretty good pinball player, too, just in case you're wondering.
00:02:18
Speaker
Yeah, what Stern of the Union went out and you're ranked in the Stern Pro Circuit right now, was it fifth or sixth?
00:02:24
Speaker
Probably somewhere around there.
00:02:25
Speaker
I seem to be floating around fifth or sixth in everything, like in IFPA rankings during Pro Circuit, IFPA rating.
00:02:33
Speaker
That's just kind of where I've ended up with all these new kids blowing everything up.
00:02:38
Speaker
You're like the elder statesman now of pinball tournaments.
00:02:43
Speaker
Yeah, it's fun, but every once in a while, I can still sneak a win in there.
00:02:47
Speaker
So that's why we love pinball, right?
00:02:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:51
Speaker
So that actually was one of the questions I can't remember if it was on slam tilt or on triple drain, but do we count you as one of the young guns still, or are you, do we finally get to count you as their senior tour?
00:03:02
Speaker
I'm definitely not a young kid.
00:03:04
Speaker
I mean, I am, I am a young kid, but not relative to the kids winning everything.
00:03:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:12
Speaker
But they don't even have a driver's license yet.
00:03:14
Speaker
So you don't get carded in our rated movie.
00:03:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:16
Speaker
Yeah.
Raymond's Projects at Stern
00:03:19
Speaker
So, okay, you've actually had two projects between Rush when you worked with Borg last, and now that you're working with him again on Metallica, you did Venom and you also did, it was just Rush and Venom.
00:03:32
Speaker
I'm losing my mind.
00:03:33
Speaker
Well, I didn't really do Venom.
00:03:35
Speaker
I helped Venom.
00:03:36
Speaker
You were a sister, right?
00:03:37
Speaker
I did some stuff on it.
00:03:39
Speaker
And also I did some stuff on John Wick.
00:03:41
Speaker
A lot of times they'll parachute people in to kind of help just distribute the workload a little bit.
00:03:50
Speaker
But Rush, Led Zeppelin, and Foo Fighters were my...
00:03:54
Speaker
I wasn't the lead, but I was the, you know, the other half or like kind of the principal other person working on it.
00:04:02
Speaker
You know, kind of saw it all the way through from beginning, middle end, along with the lead.
00:04:07
Speaker
Whereas.
00:04:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:09
Speaker
So with Foo Fighters, sorry, were you the leader?
00:04:11
Speaker
You weren't.
00:04:12
Speaker
No, Tanya Kleist was the lead on Foo Fighters, but I was, you know, lead wingman or whatnot.
00:04:18
Speaker
So me and him kind of tag teamed it.
00:04:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:04:22
Speaker
But still, I mean,
00:04:23
Speaker
you've got quite the repertoire between, and I mean, it's a heavy workload.
00:04:29
Speaker
There's all this.
00:04:30
Speaker
The thing is, is pinball has become very software heavy in the last decade or so, if not a little bit before that.
00:04:36
Speaker
And so like looking at this, and like you said, Venom, even if you're tag teaming on Venom, between that and Foo Fighters and Rush and Zeppelin and Avengers, I mean, that's quite an amazing little list of games.
00:04:48
Speaker
In the four years you've been there, five years now,
00:04:51
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I've touched quite a bit.
00:04:53
Speaker
I did work on Jurassic Park during the co-op update.
00:04:58
Speaker
The Jurassic Park 30th update helped juice up some of those control room modes.
00:05:04
Speaker
And yeah, Avengers was when I started on when I first got here.
00:05:08
Speaker
I also did some tweaks on Iron Maiden.
00:05:10
Speaker
It's just kind of, you know, whatever, wherever they need you.
00:05:12
Speaker
And then at one point, they were like, we need you to do Metallica.
00:05:16
Speaker
And I'm like, oh.
00:05:18
Speaker
And they're like, yeah, you're the lead.
00:05:20
Speaker
And I'm like, oh.
00:05:21
Speaker
All right.
00:05:22
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:05:23
Speaker
Okay.
00:05:24
Speaker
So tell me about one.
00:05:26
Speaker
When did, when did this idea come about that we are going to revisit Metallica?
00:05:35
Speaker
Man, I don't know.
00:05:37
Speaker
Like probably what year 20, 20,
00:05:44
Speaker
I mean, I started, I knew about it at the end of like last year.
00:05:48
Speaker
So like a year ago from now is when I kind of got the rumblings of like, this is coming, but I'm sure it was in the works before then.
00:05:57
Speaker
You know, I just didn't hear about it.
00:05:59
Speaker
Well, the nice thing about something like this is that this is really a new avenue that Stern is opening up because we've always done vault additions with Stern.
00:06:08
Speaker
So they've been able to bring
Remastering Strategy
00:06:10
Speaker
back another game for a release.
00:06:12
Speaker
I swear they ran Star Trek on the line every year for about five years where they're like, okay, now we're...
00:06:20
Speaker
Going to do a quick run of Star Trek.
00:06:22
Speaker
And it was always interesting.
00:06:24
Speaker
So I'm like, I didn't know, like, you needed a Star Trek anymore.
00:06:27
Speaker
But hey, however, this is, you know, this is a way of taking a game that was early DMD.
00:06:37
Speaker
Well, sorry, not early DMD, but early in the last in the, okay, the, the Renaissance of Stern.
00:06:45
Speaker
So I'm going to call like everything past ACDC where it's, you know, it's kind of like the Valley Williams, the glory days in the nineties.
00:06:52
Speaker
It seems like everything past ACDC has been this new resurgence of pinball and it's,
00:06:56
Speaker
It's on the earlier side of that.
00:06:58
Speaker
So it's 11 years old.
00:07:00
Speaker
But when you walked up to a Metallica, it did feel different because even though the game was set up amazing, the layout, the code, it still presented like an older game just because it was DMD and we have moved on to LCD.
00:07:17
Speaker
So this is actually an interesting avenue that Stern is approaching.
00:07:22
Speaker
And I heard that they were toying a little bit with doing a DMD, you know, kind of like a vault edition first.
00:07:29
Speaker
Is that correct?
00:07:32
Speaker
Maybe they were just exploring all options.
00:07:35
Speaker
I have no idea.
00:07:36
Speaker
The only story I know is that the band saw like, I think it was Rush, but it was like LCD, like, wow, why don't we have something cool like this?
00:07:47
Speaker
I think that's all I know about it.
00:07:51
Speaker
That was my suspicion, actually, that Metallica actually saw what you're able to do with the modern music pens.
00:07:59
Speaker
And even though theirs was great, it still, you know, it was kind of in the early days of the music pen.
00:08:06
Speaker
And so you can see how far they've come.
00:08:10
Speaker
That's actually pretty amazing to say, okay, we're going to do it.
00:08:14
Speaker
However, the approach is, hey, we have...
00:08:19
Speaker
this layout that's legendary.
00:08:21
Speaker
It's a top 10 layout.
00:08:23
Speaker
We have code, you know, the, the late grape Lyman sheets, and we're going to do something to bring it more modern.
00:08:31
Speaker
So how was this pitch to you?
00:08:37
Speaker
I mean, yeah, I was just said, I was told it's going to be a remaster, essentially.
00:08:43
Speaker
You know, the old same layout and rules, mostly, of the old game.
00:08:48
Speaker
But we're going to put all of our new hardware...
00:08:52
Speaker
Borg's going to tweak some things that didn't work as well the first time around.
00:08:56
Speaker
He's going to add new fancy cool things just because he wants to because he's a creative dude who likes cool shit.
00:09:06
Speaker
Sorry, my French there.
00:09:07
Speaker
But yeah, that's kind of all it really was.
00:09:11
Speaker
It was just Borg was going to make this awesome newer version and I was going to help with software.
00:09:20
Speaker
So like Scott pointed out, I mean, this is the original rules was done by the late great Lyman sheets.
00:09:27
Speaker
And so how do you take a rule set that's so beloved?
00:09:30
Speaker
And so, I mean, it's just, this game has been revered as one of the top Stern games ever made.
00:09:35
Speaker
How do you take a code set like that and expand upon it, but keep the nuances and keep that original vibes and feelings without feeling like you're, you're overwriting what Lyman did.
00:09:48
Speaker
Well, I guess for me, I just started with what he had there already.
00:09:53
Speaker
So my primary goal when I started on the project was to get the game...
00:09:58
Speaker
to just run in spike two, you know, with the DMD animations or sort of working and with the, everything and the rules and stuff, basically just try to get the existing game working.
00:10:10
Speaker
And then once I did that, then I just went in from there, you know, iterated, replaced, you know, got the new animations in, you know, and then eventually the new modes kind of just put those in on top of everything else that was going on.
00:10:27
Speaker
You know, I had to come up with kind of different rules, nuances, but just, yeah, just kind of everything was just layered in, like, you know, on top.
00:10:39
Speaker
So someone who has owned Metallica or been familiar with it, what are the different code options that you are going to be adding to a game that they should be very familiar with?
00:10:51
Speaker
I mean, this game is, what, 11 years old?
00:10:53
Speaker
And it's been played to death in tournaments.
00:10:56
Speaker
And so what are the extra options that you said, I'm going to tweak this and I'm going to move this?
00:11:03
Speaker
Yeah, so basically there's just more to do in single ball play now because before I felt it was all...
00:11:10
Speaker
You know, you had to rush to a multiball, and if you weren't in multiball, you weren't doing anything.
00:11:15
Speaker
So I kind of wanted to fill in the gaps.
00:11:18
Speaker
And so the 72 seasons mode will reward you for hitting those dangerous stand-up targets, but only when you're in single-ball play will those qualify.
00:11:30
Speaker
but then you have a chance for some, you know, some big scores.
00:11:35
Speaker
But it just gives you something else to do because a lot of times in tournaments, you'd have played your multiballs already and now you're kind of trapped and you're in jail.
00:11:43
Speaker
And so I kind of just wanted to have something to fill that dead air.
New Game Modes
00:11:47
Speaker
So the other mode, hardwired, I felt the game didn't utilize all the shots, you know, as much as it could.
00:11:55
Speaker
So for hardwired, you have to hit all five shots, you know, the right ramp, left ramp, right orbit, left orbit.
00:12:01
Speaker
great marker lane.
00:12:02
Speaker
And to just kind of reward the player for like, Hey, if you're in single ball play and you know, you hit the right ramp, it'll advance you towards this hardwired thing.
00:12:13
Speaker
It just kind of gives you more things to kind of look and see like, all right, I'm, I'm 10 hits to a multi-ball, but I'm only this shot and this shot towards hardwired.
00:12:22
Speaker
So maybe I'll start that mode first.
00:12:25
Speaker
And then of course, because, you know, keeping in the spirit of the rules that linemen had,
00:12:29
Speaker
if you start something, you can always bring it into a multi-ball.
00:12:33
Speaker
So if you, if you want, you know, you can start in single ball, get your mode set up, start them, then start multi-ball.
00:12:40
Speaker
Now you've got the party going.
00:12:42
Speaker
So that was kind of my, my thoughts on how the new, the two new modes should, should fit in.
00:12:49
Speaker
Well, and I heard there's some special extras that you guys have put in here too.
00:12:52
Speaker
I know John board was very,
00:12:55
Speaker
uh, proud of blackened and what you guys had put in there.
00:12:57
Speaker
And he said he wasn't going to, he told us the Easter egg, but I guess you're going to have to get the game and, and find it yourself.
00:13:04
Speaker
But, uh, there's just little nuances you guys had put in there as well.
00:13:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:07
Speaker
Well, I can talk a little bit about blackened.
00:13:09
Speaker
Um,
00:13:10
Speaker
It's not in the code right now.
00:13:12
Speaker
So the one that ships, you know, they're shipping tomorrow, you know.
00:13:17
Speaker
But it will be in a future update pretty quickly.
00:13:21
Speaker
But the idea for Blackened is it's sort of a reward for playing all four multiballs really well.
00:13:29
Speaker
So if you...
00:13:31
Speaker
If you get, you know, a couple of super jackpots in the electric chair multiball, a couple of super jackpots in the gray marker multiball and so on and all four.
00:13:39
Speaker
And it also makes you pay attention.
00:13:40
Speaker
Like normally people would never go after snake multiball, but now, you know, well, if you get snake, now you get this blackened multiball too, if you get all, you know, all four.
00:13:50
Speaker
But I also wanted to reward people.
00:13:52
Speaker
So the better you do in the multiballs, the better blackened will be.
00:13:57
Speaker
So if you do, you know, really well in some of the multi balls, black and could be like a three, four or five ball multi ball.
00:14:03
Speaker
If you kind of do the bare minimum, it might only be a two ball multi ball.
00:14:07
Speaker
But that's still cool because it's still a new multi ball and that people can experience.
00:14:11
Speaker
And it will have a really cool intro, intro sequence that, that, you know, we don't want to spoil as Josh alluded to, but that'll be cool.
00:14:21
Speaker
And yeah,
00:14:22
Speaker
Yeah, so I think that's a really cool way because it kind of another mode, you know, Borg added those extra inserts above the right scoop so that, you know, he thought it was clever to just kind of, oh, we can have a second story of things over here.
00:14:37
Speaker
And so blackened fit over there along with hardwired.
00:14:41
Speaker
So, yeah, everything was just kind of very nicely, you know, sprinkled in with care to try to keep it cohesive with the original game.
00:14:51
Speaker
So you spoke earlier about layering Spike 2 and SAM systems and whatnot together.
00:15:00
Speaker
Were you also kind of writing programs so it would make it easier in the future if maybe you want to go back?
00:15:06
Speaker
Or was this just kind of like a we did as we go kind of thing?
00:15:11
Speaker
I mean, I was kind of learning as I was doing it.
00:15:15
Speaker
So, I mean, I have to go back and look at all my, you know, things that I did and kind of refresh myself or see like, oh, yeah, this is how you convert this to this.
00:15:24
Speaker
This is how I did this to this.
00:15:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:27
Speaker
But, you know, as I'm going through it, I'm just finding things like, oh, the last, you know, the Sam game used a lamp matrix.
00:15:34
Speaker
Now we have node boards.
00:15:35
Speaker
So instead of a row and a column for a switch, it's a node board address and a, you know, device LED or whatever.
00:15:42
Speaker
So there's like just sort of that translation that had to happen.
00:15:46
Speaker
And then testing it and also like, you know, the Sam game...
00:15:53
Speaker
For lamps, you could have... It had an older way of... Sam was... It was very binary with things were either on or off.
00:16:02
Speaker
So flash lamps...
00:16:04
Speaker
were either on or off.
00:16:06
Speaker
Coils were either on or off.
00:16:08
Speaker
Whereas Spike, there's a lot more nuance of you can light it up, you know, maybe 50%, 60%.
00:16:14
Speaker
You can fire the coil 40%.
00:16:16
Speaker
You can hold it for 30%.
00:16:19
Speaker
So when you're translating all of that, you have to kind of be careful and, you know, try to keep it the same, but using the new kind of version of those calls.
Coding Challenges and Solutions
00:16:33
Speaker
Okay, so walk us through a little bit more about the SAM versus... So explain to me like a five-year-old because I know nothing about coding.
00:16:41
Speaker
And so to me, when I hear about an old thing, I think about, well, why isn't there just like some algorithm where you...
00:16:50
Speaker
plug it in and it just automatically converts it or just reads the code, you know, just making like spike two or even, you know, spike three, four or whatever, make it so it can just read the old code and, and reverse engineer it.
00:17:04
Speaker
Like, tell me why that doesn't work.
00:17:08
Speaker
Well, you need a human to, to figure out, you know, what should be what, once you kind of figure out,
00:17:16
Speaker
how it gets from one to another, you can, you know, do find all, replace all.
00:17:20
Speaker
But then you'll, you'll find bugs too.
00:17:22
Speaker
So you got to test everything.
00:17:23
Speaker
So you got to go through, you know, file by file after you've translated it and, and try those modes out and make sure that it, it, nothing got lost in translation.
00:17:32
Speaker
You know, some, I was finding, you know, maybe some light effect wasn't showing up or it wasn't showing up
00:17:39
Speaker
with the intention that it should have, you know, like one example was the, uh, RGBs, uh, were all out of a hundred on Sam.
00:17:47
Speaker
So it was like,
00:17:49
Speaker
you know, a level like the red level could be, you know, zero to 100, zero to 100.
00:17:55
Speaker
But then on spike, we kind of went with zero to 255.
00:17:59
Speaker
And so before I realized that that had changed, I was noticing the colors were a little off or they were too dim or, you know, weren't right.
00:18:07
Speaker
So it was just a lot of trial and error because only you know what's right.
00:18:13
Speaker
You know, you need a human to kind of know what is right and what is wrong.
00:18:19
Speaker
So was it kind of surreal working on this game considering I assume this is when you play and play in tournaments.
00:18:24
Speaker
It's, it's, it's kind of known as a classic game.
00:18:28
Speaker
Is it just something you're like, you never thought you'd work on kind of thing?
00:18:32
Speaker
It was pretty, pretty wild.
00:18:33
Speaker
You know, when I first got heard, heard that I was on it, you know, and it was like, well, this is a really popular game.
00:18:40
Speaker
You know, people are going to expect it to be correct.
00:18:44
Speaker
People are going to notice everything.
00:18:47
Speaker
And it's,
00:18:49
Speaker
It's a big ask, but I was also very excited because I liked the game and I had played it a bunch.
00:18:54
Speaker
So I had no problem, you know, every day working on it, you know, it felt fun because I was just trying to get it to be awesome.
00:19:00
Speaker
Like, you know, and it was cool because you have like the answer key, right?
00:19:05
Speaker
So I'm working on the code and I have the answer key of what it should do.
00:19:10
Speaker
And, but like, I haven't got there yet.
00:19:12
Speaker
So it was like a fun little exercise where I'm like,
00:19:17
Speaker
Code, code, code, code, code.
00:19:18
Speaker
Okay, let's see how it looks.
00:19:20
Speaker
Okay, now compare that to the old one.
00:19:22
Speaker
You know, that was kind of the process.
00:19:26
Speaker
So did you have like an old one?
00:19:27
Speaker
Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying.
00:19:28
Speaker
Did you have an old one and a new one next to each other so you could test it out simultaneously?
00:19:32
Speaker
Yeah, eventually we found we got an old Sam up and running, but...
00:19:40
Speaker
It was, I mean, a lot of it, I actually kind of went to like YouTube videos and other coverage to see, you know, how the old game worked and just like kind of logic and reasoning and remembering things.
00:19:52
Speaker
And, but yeah, every once in a while I'd have to go and kind of just double sanity check, like, okay, did the old game do that?
00:19:59
Speaker
And I actually found a couple of bugs and stuff doing like throughout it.
00:20:04
Speaker
So, you know, I was noticing like,
00:20:07
Speaker
Oh, that's weird.
00:20:08
Speaker
The old game has this code that's supposed to light up the fuel lane orange when the fuel jackpot is lit, but it just doesn't work because it's bugged because this logic is out of order.
00:20:22
Speaker
And I went and checked on the old game, and I'm like...
00:20:25
Speaker
Yep.
00:20:26
Speaker
It wasn't me.
00:20:26
Speaker
It was originally bugged.
00:20:29
Speaker
So then I fixed it.
00:20:29
Speaker
And, and so like, that was cool to kind of uncover little things and make them better.
00:20:35
Speaker
So, you know, it was, it was, it was pretty fun.
00:20:39
Speaker
I have to say the new code is amazing.
00:20:42
Speaker
We got Scott and I, well, Scott didn't get to play as long as I did, but I, I wasn't giving up the game.
00:20:46
Speaker
I'd let, I'd rotate obviously while we were there at Stern, but I, we were there for at least a good two or three hours and just playing this game over and over.
00:20:56
Speaker
What made me chuckle though, there was one point where I was playing,
00:20:59
Speaker
And I drained, but I thought the ball save was on.
00:21:03
Speaker
But it was because all the lights were flashing on the game.
00:21:06
Speaker
And I said, no, the ball save's on.
00:21:09
Speaker
And you ran right over Ray.
00:21:11
Speaker
And you're like, no, that's a sin.
00:21:12
Speaker
That's like the cardinal sin, right?
00:21:14
Speaker
You had mistaken the 72 seasons light for the ball save light.
00:21:19
Speaker
Yeah, no, I never used, we never, even Lineman, I was looking, he always masked out all the important lights, the ball save, shoot again lights,
00:21:29
Speaker
the outlane lights should always be on you know that sort of thing
00:21:34
Speaker
I just loved how you were, you were so making sure you had a dog whistle for a coder.
00:21:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:42
Speaker
I hate when things are wrong.
00:21:43
Speaker
Like that is one thing I hate is when I see something that is wrong.
00:21:46
Speaker
Cause I want to fix it.
00:21:49
Speaker
I have done a, and this is interesting.
00:21:52
Speaker
And this is just how my brain works.
00:21:54
Speaker
There are times when I get fooled out when you like the shoot again is illuminated on certain games and
00:21:59
Speaker
And it's like the same as the same area as the ball save, but it's not flashing.
00:22:03
Speaker
It's just solid.
00:22:04
Speaker
And so I'll let it drain.
00:22:05
Speaker
Then realize I just screwed up.
00:22:07
Speaker
Or you had an extra ball.
00:22:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:09
Speaker
I just had an extra ball.
00:22:10
Speaker
I was like, Oh, technically you get to shoot again.
00:22:13
Speaker
I do get to shoot again.
00:22:14
Speaker
Yeah, that's fine.
00:22:16
Speaker
So how was it different being a lead versus the other games that you've worked on?
00:22:22
Speaker
The main difference is there's no one kind of above you to, you know, kind of check with, like, is this okay if I do this?
00:22:32
Speaker
It's like, well, ask yourself, is this okay if I do this?
00:22:36
Speaker
You're kind of the one who decides, you know, when you're talking about either risky things or like,
00:22:44
Speaker
if you're kind of weighing decisions one way or the other, you can still ask people, you know, if you need help with things.
00:22:50
Speaker
And sometimes I would bounce ideas off of people.
00:22:53
Speaker
But in the end, it's like me who makes the final call, not someone else.
00:22:56
Speaker
Whereas before it was always me who was kind of giving ideas and talking and like, what do you think of this?
00:23:02
Speaker
Is this okay?
00:23:03
Speaker
I'm going to do this.
00:23:03
Speaker
Is that okay?
00:23:04
Speaker
Whatever.
00:23:05
Speaker
And then someone else sometimes veto it or they'd be like, yeah, that's awesome.
00:23:08
Speaker
Let's do it.
00:23:09
Speaker
So now it's all on me.
00:23:12
Speaker
Was, is it harder to convert an old code into new language and new software?
00:23:21
Speaker
Or is it, is it harder to come up with the rules from scratch?
00:23:28
Speaker
Well, I guess the code from scratch.
00:23:31
Speaker
So when you had to, when you had to translate from an older language, right?
00:23:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:37
Speaker
But I mean, with a new game, you have to do all of the,
00:23:44
Speaker
you kind of have to do all this stuff plus come up with everything on your own.
00:23:48
Speaker
Whereas at least for me, I had a lot of it already there.
00:23:52
Speaker
So I just had to make it work and kind of improve things and tweak things.
00:23:57
Speaker
Whereas it wasn't just an empty file, you know?
00:24:01
Speaker
So, um,
00:24:03
Speaker
So I'd be lying if I said there was more work, you know, doing this than like a full Cornerstone game.
00:24:10
Speaker
But also I'm the only one on this game.
00:24:12
Speaker
Like I didn't have any support or anyone else.
00:24:15
Speaker
So it was just me the whole time.
00:24:18
Speaker
So it kind of worked out that way.
00:24:22
Speaker
But it was still a ton of work.
00:24:24
Speaker
It's just it was a ton of work for one person instead of three or four.
00:24:29
Speaker
And so that's kind of, you know, I spent a lot of days putting in the new animations, making sure the text would show up in the right spots and, you know, making sure I get sounds from Jerry to put in for the new animations.
00:24:42
Speaker
One thing that was a big thing I really wanted to preserve was the display presentation priority.
00:24:49
Speaker
So on Metallica,
00:24:51
Speaker
Everything is kind of... You know, it'll show you the jackpot effect right away.
00:24:58
Speaker
And then if something else happens, it'll show you that right away.
00:25:00
Speaker
It's just kind of like, as soon as something happens, it checks, like, am I a higher priority than this other thing?
00:25:07
Speaker
Like, show me versus don't show me.
00:25:09
Speaker
And some things might get lost.
00:25:10
Speaker
You know, you might not see an animation if another one stomps on top of it.
00:25:14
Speaker
But our existing code that a lot of their other games are using...
00:25:18
Speaker
kind of likes to cue things up and kind of make sure you're seeing everything because there's a lot of cool stuff.
00:25:23
Speaker
You know, we want to see all the animations.
00:25:26
Speaker
But I wanted to keep Metallica the same as it was because otherwise people would notice and it would be different.
00:25:33
Speaker
And so I wanted to be faithful.
00:25:35
Speaker
And so I had to kind of
00:25:37
Speaker
change the system a little bit from, you know, how I had done animations on the other games and kind of come up with my own, like, all right, how do I translate this from the old way into the new way so that it's faithful and uses all the same priorities that the old one does, but then it also uses the LCD animations the correct way, you know, instead of the dots.
00:26:02
Speaker
So that was kind of something I had to solve on my own, you know.
00:26:07
Speaker
There were some other things, lots of light questions like light effects.
00:26:11
Speaker
I learned a lot about how those work.
00:26:14
Speaker
You know, when you're when you're the lead, you kind of have to know everything and dig in really deep and get a real fundamental understanding.
00:26:22
Speaker
You can't just copy and paste things that the lead did because, you know, that works.
00:26:28
Speaker
It's like, well, now I'm the lead.
00:26:29
Speaker
So I have to make sure I understand how everything works.
00:26:34
Speaker
So you got to do a lot extra on this game.
00:26:36
Speaker
What was your favorite part of the game that you got to do?
00:26:39
Speaker
Whether it be a new mode or I personally like Easter eggs.
00:26:42
Speaker
So was there like an Easter egg that's your favorite in there?
00:26:47
Speaker
I don't think there's any Easter eggs right now, but I like.
00:26:54
Speaker
Let's see.
00:26:55
Speaker
Well, I liked, yeah, the new modes were fun because I got to come up with ideas for them.
00:27:02
Speaker
But I just, I think my favorite thing working on it is just getting the cool animations in and watching the game slowly kind of transform.
00:27:10
Speaker
Because like I said, when I started, it was using kind of the dot matrix animations, although some of it was glitchy.
00:27:17
Speaker
It didn't really work all that well.
00:27:19
Speaker
But as I would get in new art from the art team and then I would spend the time to implement it,
00:27:25
Speaker
It's like, okay, now it's a little bit more complete and then you'd see it evolve.
00:27:29
Speaker
And then I remember when I was done with every, you know, every old animation had been converted to a new animation.
00:27:35
Speaker
It was like really cool to say like, here it is.
00:27:38
Speaker
It's all done.
00:27:39
Speaker
It was just really cool to see it kind of come alive throughout time.
00:27:45
Speaker
Was working with the UI a little different, not the UI.
00:27:48
Speaker
Well, yeah, the, the blacklight was that.
00:27:51
Speaker
Is that more difficult to work with?
00:27:52
Speaker
Or is it just kind of like a typical light that you deal with?
00:27:54
Speaker
Because I love the key animation where it glows from the hammer onto the play field showing you that your lock is lit.
00:28:02
Speaker
Yeah, no, that was cool.
00:28:04
Speaker
I really was happy with that.
00:28:06
Speaker
And that was another thing I learned being a lead is it's not just software.
00:28:10
Speaker
You also work with
00:28:12
Speaker
the designer a lot more, the art team a lot more.
00:28:15
Speaker
And it was up to me to kind of know what I was asking, like when I needed something from the art team and making sure, you know, work like for instance, Borg originally had,
00:28:26
Speaker
You know, he added some new inserts and things.
00:28:28
Speaker
And I was like, you know, it'd be cool if we put 2x scoring on that insert because the old game didn't have 2x scoring insert.
00:28:34
Speaker
It had 2x scoring, but it didn't have an insert.
00:28:36
Speaker
And Borg was like, oh, yeah, that's a good idea.
00:28:38
Speaker
We should do that.
00:28:38
Speaker
And so then he would update his docs and everything.
00:28:41
Speaker
And so the key was another thing where he put a hammer UV, like a UV light inside the hammer and
00:28:50
Speaker
because he just thought it would be cool.
00:28:51
Speaker
Like he, you know, he, he put some UV here, UV here.
00:28:54
Speaker
And I'm like, well, I'm going to light up the UV to tell you that lock is lit.
00:28:59
Speaker
And before there was any UV art, you could kind of see like a little purple glow.
00:29:04
Speaker
And that was like cool enough for me.
00:29:05
Speaker
I'm like, yeah, all right.
00:29:06
Speaker
Lock is lit.
00:29:07
Speaker
This is very useful because the old game didn't tell you if lock was lit.
00:29:10
Speaker
It would be like kind of a surprise.
00:29:12
Speaker
And Borg was like, yeah, we could have a little key.
00:29:15
Speaker
like a little key logo there.
00:29:17
Speaker
And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:29:19
Speaker
So, and then it lights up the key.
00:29:21
Speaker
So there was a lot of collaboration like that.
00:29:25
Speaker
And in general, the UV lights, yeah, they're just normal lights.
00:29:28
Speaker
You just tell them to turn on and off just like any other lights.
00:29:31
Speaker
But, you know, you kind of want to make sure the GI is probably off when you're using them for their full effect.
00:29:38
Speaker
So they don't get washed out by the light from the other lights.
00:29:43
Speaker
But yeah, it was pretty, pretty easy to implement.
00:29:46
Speaker
And yeah, it was, it was fun working, working with Borg and watching it kind of evolve.
00:29:53
Speaker
Now, now with rush rushes, they were quite involved in the process and getting you a lot of concert footage, getting you a lot of access information.
Modern Gaming Experience Enhancements
00:30:04
Speaker
And tell me how that process was integrating the concert clips and choreographing them with what you're doing.
00:30:12
Speaker
Because I'm assuming that would, that is certainly a next level of integration over the DMD.
00:30:20
Speaker
Yeah, so the concert footage was basically for, you know, when you're in main play or it's just the background, you know, you're not showing an award at the time because the old game just had score, right?
00:30:34
Speaker
It didn't really have, and it had text kind of on a black background.
00:30:39
Speaker
And so the concert footage kind of fills that void and...
00:30:44
Speaker
It does it pretty nicely.
00:30:45
Speaker
And I was able to use, you know, some of the code from Rush to kind of figure out how that game works.
00:30:51
Speaker
kind of synchronizes and keeps track because if you're watching the concert and then you hit a shot and animation just shows up you want it to pick up where it left off in the concert um but you still want the music to be playing the whole time and so there's like synchronization stuff you had to do um and again background priorities like if you're in one mode then you start another mode now it's going to change the song and so then it's going to change the concert footage
00:31:15
Speaker
And that was another, you know, priority stacking thing I tried to get right from the old Metallica because a lot of that was –
00:31:23
Speaker
based on the order you did stuff.
00:31:24
Speaker
So if you had one mode running and then you started another mode, the newer mode would be the background that wins.
00:31:30
Speaker
But our newer games, it's more of just an absolute priority of like everything just kind of has a priority and whatever's running that we deem most important is the one that shows up.
00:31:40
Speaker
So that was another thing I had to kind of figure out, but it was...
00:31:45
Speaker
It's cool.
00:31:46
Speaker
And I think it seamlessly kind of fits.
00:31:48
Speaker
You know, you can see just James rocking out, you know, all of them rocking out.
00:31:56
Speaker
And it's it's just it's just fun because you still need a place to look up and see text and information.
00:32:04
Speaker
So you're probably not staring at the band, but other people watching will be staring at the band.
00:32:10
Speaker
And, you know, sometimes you might look up and see, and it's like, it just kind of makes you smile because it's cool.
00:32:16
Speaker
You know, it's really cool that we have the ability to do this.
00:32:20
Speaker
Well, that's also something I really loved while playing the game was, you know, in the old game, it seemed like you had a pause and you'd scroll through the screens and you had to find the information that you're specifically looking for and you're trying to interpret it all.
00:32:33
Speaker
But now you got the LCD and it's, you look up and it's like,
00:32:37
Speaker
oh, I've got a couple more shots to the snake.
00:32:39
Speaker
I just need to do this and that.
00:32:40
Speaker
And boom, I'm on my way.
00:32:42
Speaker
And I've also got to say, too, speaking of the snake, that shot feels so much better now.
00:32:47
Speaker
I don't know what Borg did, but I don't feel like it ever rejected on me when I went for the snake, as long as I got a good clean shot, right?
00:32:55
Speaker
And it felt like on the old game, you didn't really want to hit the snake because you didn't know what you were going to get.
00:32:59
Speaker
So, I mean, just over and over, there's just little things that were tweaked in this game.
00:33:04
Speaker
That makes the quality of life so much better, right?
00:33:07
Speaker
Yeah, that was actually a challenge.
00:33:09
Speaker
The UI screen, because the concert footage is so cool, you don't want to crowd over it because you're going to cut off his head while he's singing.
00:33:18
Speaker
You don't want to do that.
00:33:19
Speaker
So I had to find a way to convey everything in the smallest border possible without being put on your glasses and read.
00:33:28
Speaker
So I had to balance, make sure the font's big enough, but make sure it's not
00:33:33
Speaker
too big.
00:33:35
Speaker
And I think it came out really good.
00:33:37
Speaker
Like you were saying, if you thought that you liked it while you were playing, it sounds like we came in, you know, had a good spot where we ended up.
00:33:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:46
Speaker
Tell me about the expression lightings integration, because that is, and you can see rush over my, over my shoulder.
00:33:55
Speaker
That's one thing that, and I still need to get the speaker lights for it, but that is one thing that really takes a music pin to the next level.
00:34:04
Speaker
And so tell me about the choreography and the coordination of getting the speaker lights and the expression lights to enhance what you're doing.
00:34:15
Speaker
Yeah, basically, you know, Mike Vinacor, he does kind of the custom light shows for all the songs.
00:34:22
Speaker
And then I have to get them in the game using kind of the data.
00:34:26
Speaker
So he gives me a big data file, you know, with a bunch of times and colors and stuff.
00:34:33
Speaker
And then I run it through like a script thing and it generates some stuff, all technical, whatever.
00:34:40
Speaker
But what's cool is, you know, I had other games to look at.
00:34:45
Speaker
you know, Rush, Foo Fighters, Zeppelin to kind of borrow from and make sure I was doing it right.
00:34:51
Speaker
And but and it worked out, you know, it got I got it up and running pretty quickly, which I was pretty happy about.
00:34:59
Speaker
You know, I want
00:35:00
Speaker
when we're showing the game with all the expression lights, we want it to work.
00:35:06
Speaker
And at first I was a little nervous.
00:35:08
Speaker
I'm like, wait, the expo is in like that, like this soon.
00:35:13
Speaker
I'm like, I don't know if we'll be able to get all the expression lights in, but luckily Mike was working hard.
00:35:18
Speaker
And like I said, once you,
00:35:20
Speaker
kind of get used to how the system works.
00:35:22
Speaker
They were able to go in.
00:35:23
Speaker
They look great.
00:35:25
Speaker
And then I also had to come up with an algorithm to kind of transpose them onto the speaker lights because now anyone can have speaker lights for their game.
00:35:33
Speaker
And the LEs come with speaker lights.
00:35:35
Speaker
And those look great too.
00:35:36
Speaker
Those are even more like kind of in your face.
00:35:39
Speaker
Like those look really cool.
00:35:40
Speaker
Yeah, they look great.
00:35:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:42
Speaker
But then there's also a couple of moments like at the start of electric chair multiball, you don't really want the speaker lights and the expression lights just kind of doing their own thing.
00:35:52
Speaker
It's like, no, you want to focus on the buildup of the electric chair multiball.
00:35:56
Speaker
So I had to go and kind of
00:35:58
Speaker
you know, include them into the rest of the light shows.
00:36:01
Speaker
And that was a lot, another lot of work I had to do is a lot of the old light shows had all their lights defined, but now we have more lights.
00:36:10
Speaker
We have expression lights, speaker lights, the new inserts for the modes, you know, have to kind of piece all those in.
00:36:17
Speaker
But we can do some really cool effects with the expression and speaker light combo for sure.
00:36:24
Speaker
So I don't know if you can speak to this or not, but why did, why was Sparky changed up from what he originally was?
00:36:30
Speaker
Was that more of a Dirty Donnie thing?
00:36:33
Speaker
And now with the new art from the Metallica artist, was that just kind of the direction or what?
00:36:39
Speaker
I don't know.
00:36:40
Speaker
I wasn't involved in that side of things.
00:36:42
Speaker
Okay.
00:36:42
Speaker
I love the new Sparky.
00:36:44
Speaker
Me too.
00:36:45
Speaker
I'm a heretic.
00:36:47
Speaker
I didn't really love the old Sparky.
00:36:49
Speaker
I thought it was okay.
00:36:50
Speaker
It was very stylized.
00:36:51
Speaker
But this art presentation feels more Metallica to me.
00:36:56
Speaker
I remember when we first saw the Playfield.
00:36:58
Speaker
We saw the Playfield come back from Reese, and we were just like, holy, this is so cool.
00:37:03
Speaker
Yeah, I know, right?
00:37:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:06
Speaker
And you can argue either way.
00:37:08
Speaker
You could argue the R packages.
00:37:12
Speaker
Really, the one thing that Stern does really well is, yes, they give you that extra something in the LE that makes it look, okay, this is the top, this looks great.
00:37:24
Speaker
But they've also done such a good job of, even if you choose to go a premium route or even a pro route, that you don't feel like you're...
00:37:33
Speaker
you're getting shortchanged because it is a complete game, a complete art package into itself.
00:37:39
Speaker
And there are other manufacturers who we talked about before that really do not hit that mark.
00:37:46
Speaker
Yeah, I think the games look gorgeous, both of them.
00:37:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:50
Speaker
And that, and that foil on the side of the foil is so good.
00:37:54
Speaker
Ellie is just amazing.
00:37:55
Speaker
I love, I love that you guys integrated the, the black light into this and that like you were speaking of, you know, you, when it, when it switches and they all look like skeletal ties.
00:38:04
Speaker
Oh, it's so good.
00:38:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:06
Speaker
When Sparky gets shocked and the teeth glowing looks so good.
00:38:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:12
Speaker
I'm really happy with how those turned out.
00:38:15
Speaker
So, okay.
00:38:16
Speaker
So you're doing the Ellie's first, correct?
00:38:20
Speaker
Is that okay?
00:38:21
Speaker
So the, the Ellie's are on the line right now.
00:38:24
Speaker
Is that, is that fair to say?
00:38:25
Speaker
They are awaiting Borg's approval.
00:38:29
Speaker
He's going to go and, you know, look them, look, look them over and make sure they're up to his standards and everything's shooting good and behaving as it should.
00:38:38
Speaker
So they'll, they'll be, they'll be out soon.
00:38:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:41
Speaker
It's exciting.
00:38:42
Speaker
So remind me, so the new Metallica logo in the back that lights up and whatnot, what does that do?
00:38:48
Speaker
And, and,
00:38:49
Speaker
Where did that decision come from?
00:38:51
Speaker
It looks awesome.
00:38:52
Speaker
That's what it does.
00:38:53
Speaker
Just awesome.
00:38:55
Speaker
Yeah, I think Borg just thought he wanted to be able to see your progress on that feature without having to look at Instant Info.
00:39:04
Speaker
And he just thought it was cool to... That logo, the Metallica logo is so iconic.
00:39:11
Speaker
Like...
00:39:12
Speaker
It was so, you know, it's a no brainer.
00:39:14
Speaker
Like, let's put it wherever we can.
00:39:15
Speaker
Like, it just looks really cool.
00:39:18
Speaker
And he just thought it was fun to, as you're hitting the ramps, you're seeing stuff light up and you're making, making progress, you know, getting that feedback right in your eyeballs, you know, right as you're playing.
00:39:29
Speaker
And what does that tie to?
00:39:30
Speaker
Was the Metallica sign tied to code wise?
00:39:34
Speaker
The left and right ramps.
00:39:35
Speaker
Every time you hit one, you get a letter.
00:39:36
Speaker
And then if you spell Metallica, then it starts the Lady Justice round.
00:39:41
Speaker
Okay.
00:39:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:39:44
Speaker
You've been playing this game for years.
00:39:47
Speaker
Ray Day walks up to a Metallica pinball machine.
00:39:50
Speaker
What is your progress?
00:39:52
Speaker
Like what, what is your path that you like choosing on this game?
00:39:57
Speaker
Uh, I mean, it's pretty straightforward.
00:40:00
Speaker
Um, you go for sparky just cause he, it carries over across balls.
00:40:06
Speaker
So if you start in ball one and you hit it a couple of times and die, you know, it's annoying, but you've made progress so that on ball two or three, you can finally start sparky and kind of get everything going.
00:40:16
Speaker
Um, so I'm a sparky player.
00:40:18
Speaker
I know some people that go for the grade marker drop targets cause it's fewer shots, but every ball they reset.
00:40:24
Speaker
Um, so I,
00:40:25
Speaker
That was actually helpful in helping me, you know, the outlane ball saves, the resurrect saves.
00:40:33
Speaker
Those are, I made them so you get them by hitting the drop targets on the grade markers.
00:40:38
Speaker
Cause I wanted to kind of balance out.
00:40:40
Speaker
Cause at least for me, if I'm only ever going sparky,
00:40:44
Speaker
You know, there's probably a lot of other people only going Sparky.
00:40:47
Speaker
And so now it'll help balance, you know, maybe people will start going for grade marker because you'll at least try to get a ball save, you know, as long as people don't turn them off from tournaments like a lot of tournaments seem to do.
Raymond's Leadership Role
00:40:59
Speaker
But, hey, I'm the lead now.
00:41:01
Speaker
I can tell you whether you can turn them off or not.
00:41:03
Speaker
So...
00:41:06
Speaker
You should get like a lead code.
00:41:07
Speaker
Like when you log in under insider connected, that it just reverts to your presets.
00:41:12
Speaker
Like, I don't think that would be very fair.
00:41:16
Speaker
Okay.
00:41:17
Speaker
But you're the lead.
00:41:17
Speaker
I mean, you can do it.
00:41:19
Speaker
Uh, now, but, um, but yeah, you basically, you get a multi-ball going and then, um,
00:41:26
Speaker
You try to get snake and points.
00:41:30
Speaker
The multi-ball itself will give you some good points, but you also really have to focus on the items.
00:41:36
Speaker
So I don't know if you know how the item system works in Metallica.
00:41:39
Speaker
It's actually a little counterintuitive, and I don't know how many people actually understand it, but...
00:41:46
Speaker
there's an arrow on the play field that's lit solid.
00:41:49
Speaker
It's like a bluish color.
00:41:50
Speaker
It's just a solid arrow.
00:41:52
Speaker
And that arrow doesn't mean to shoot that shot.
00:41:55
Speaker
It means this is your currently active shot.
00:41:58
Speaker
So if you hit Sparky, it will make an electric chair insert light up underneath that shot.
00:42:05
Speaker
And if you hit snake, it's going to make a snake appear.
00:42:07
Speaker
And if you hit the grave marker, drop target, it's going to make a cross appear on that shot.
00:42:12
Speaker
And if you get all three, um,
00:42:15
Speaker
on the same shot that starts a coffin hurry up.
00:42:18
Speaker
And what's cool about that is when you lock in that coffin, hurry up.
00:42:22
Speaker
Now those three things, the chair, the cross and the snake will stay there for the rest of the game.
00:42:29
Speaker
So normally when you drain all of the items that you have on the play field will go away.
00:42:34
Speaker
But if you get the hurry up,
00:42:35
Speaker
They'll stay there.
00:42:36
Speaker
And what's good about having items on the play field is that's how you light your big scoring crank it up modes.
00:42:42
Speaker
So if you have a shot that has a snake and a cross on it, every time you hit that shot, you're getting a cross and you're getting a snake and you need 12 of each to qualify crank it up, which is, you know, after you've done your multi-ball, you might kind of look around and see where your items are and kind of pick some off and try to get to that 12 of each.
00:43:01
Speaker
So you can play the crank it up mode.
00:43:06
Speaker
Speaking of which, actually, I guess that's a decent segue.
00:43:08
Speaker
This game will have the challenge modes that you can play the crank it up modes like right from the beginning.
00:43:14
Speaker
Nice.
00:43:15
Speaker
But you have to kind of earn them a little bit.
00:43:18
Speaker
So you have to.
00:43:19
Speaker
Like a shark teeth thing.
00:43:21
Speaker
What's that?
00:43:22
Speaker
Like a shark teeth thing.
00:43:24
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, exactly like the Shark Teeth, but instead of Shark Teeth, you're earning the items.
00:43:28
Speaker
So as you're logged in playing normal games and you're getting electric chairs and coffins and snakes and crosses, they're going into your little bank account and you can cash them in for a challenge mode.
00:43:40
Speaker
So if you get 12 of each item on your Insider account, now you can play one of the challenge modes or...
00:43:46
Speaker
you can save them all up and get, uh, 60, 12 times five, 60 of each item.
00:43:53
Speaker
And that will let you play, uh, the end of the line, which is the final wizard mode that almost nobody has seen.
00:43:58
Speaker
Uh, cause it's very hard to get to, but now if you just play the game normally enough and you, you know, maybe resist doing a challenge mode, uh, you can cash it all in and play the end of the line.
00:44:11
Speaker
Um, which I thought was really cool.
00:44:13
Speaker
A good opportunity.
00:44:14
Speaker
Um,
00:44:15
Speaker
And yeah, I just really liked that idea.
00:44:18
Speaker
It's smart just because you, when you're coding the end of a game, you're, you're really putting a lot of work in and a lot of payoff for people, for the vast majority of people who are never going to see it.
00:44:33
Speaker
And so being able to find like a way of making that's okay.
00:44:37
Speaker
I was at my friend's house the other day and actually we just spent all night doing the jaws, a shark teeth, like doing the, you know, the revenge.
00:44:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:49
Speaker
I got to do some of that.
00:44:50
Speaker
I have, I have, I'm maxed out on shark teeth right now.
00:44:53
Speaker
I have 999.
00:44:53
Speaker
I won't let me go any higher.
00:44:55
Speaker
And I need, I need to start playing those.
00:44:58
Speaker
Okay.
00:44:59
Speaker
The shark teeth, it's hilarious because you're, you're, you're still kind of hoping they secretly help they drain.
00:45:06
Speaker
So you can, you can play and also crush their skulls.
00:45:09
Speaker
But it's, it's fun because everybody's shouting out.
00:45:12
Speaker
It was like, no, they're on the right.
00:45:13
Speaker
They're on the right.
00:45:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:17
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's really cool.
00:45:18
Speaker
And this is a good balance because, you know, this way you have to work for it a little bit, you know, and it won't feel old because if you can just go up and keep playing Fade to Black as many times as you want, it might get a little old.
00:45:30
Speaker
But this way it kind of sprinkles out like, well, you got to play the game a little bit, earn some items and then cash them in here, cash them in there.
00:45:38
Speaker
So I'm excited to see people, you know, take their phones out and make sure they're getting credit for their items every time they play.
00:45:47
Speaker
When am I mistaken?
00:45:48
Speaker
Wasn't there different songs from Metallica than what is available in this go
Music and Metallica's Evolution
00:45:52
Speaker
around?
00:45:52
Speaker
I mean, obviously you have your classics like enter Sandman and master of puppets.
00:45:56
Speaker
I know that they had newer stuff in there as well, but it, it felt like some of the songs were taken out as well.
00:46:00
Speaker
Where's there, where's something, all the songs, all the songs from 2013 are in there.
00:46:06
Speaker
Just add to it.
00:46:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:07
Speaker
Just added.
00:46:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:09
Speaker
We went from 14, well, 13 songs in the original game, plus a 14th song, the end of the line.
00:46:15
Speaker
And so 14 songs in the original.
00:46:18
Speaker
Now there's this one's shipping with 22 songs.
00:46:21
Speaker
So there's eight more.
00:46:26
Speaker
And yeah, it's really cool because you have all the ones that you like.
00:46:29
Speaker
And now you have a chance to like some new ones.
00:46:31
Speaker
Like I personally, I fell in love with King Nothing.
00:46:36
Speaker
I love that song.
00:46:37
Speaker
That is actually, that's one of my favorite Metallica songs.
00:46:40
Speaker
It is such a good one.
00:46:41
Speaker
It's on this game.
00:46:42
Speaker
So I'm like, I know what I'm picking now whenever I play Metallica.
00:46:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:46
Speaker
And actually, it is nice because you get so used to, you know, the, you know, the iconic albums, right?
00:46:53
Speaker
You get you because I'm 50 now.
00:46:55
Speaker
So like I grew up like listening to, you know, the Ride the Lightning and, you know, Kill Them All and Justice for All and all that.
00:47:03
Speaker
And I would say that most of us, we kind of.
00:47:06
Speaker
move on with, you know, we, we move on with the, as genres change and what becomes in vogue.
00:47:14
Speaker
And so we're usually not as familiar with the later stuff.
00:47:17
Speaker
And I would even argue with rush.
00:47:19
Speaker
I mean, I followed rush basically my entire life and there, you know, there's an album called snakes and arrows.
00:47:26
Speaker
I've probably only listened to the album less than five times.
00:47:28
Speaker
Oh, and it has Far Cry is amazing.
00:47:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:31
Speaker
No, no.
00:47:31
Speaker
Okay.
00:47:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:32
Speaker
No, it's good.
00:47:33
Speaker
It's good.
00:47:34
Speaker
But it is just human nature.
00:47:36
Speaker
I have probably listened to power windows over a thousand times.
00:47:40
Speaker
Right.
00:47:42
Speaker
And so, you know, and this is the great thing because you are introduced more to these later gems that you, that you didn't get exposed to.
00:47:52
Speaker
And I would argue the same thing with Iron Maiden.
00:47:54
Speaker
I mean, I, uh, Iron Maiden, uh, live after death is their live album that, you know, it's the power slave.
00:48:00
Speaker
So it's basically the, the premium one that was their Zenith.
00:48:03
Speaker
That was their peak.
00:48:04
Speaker
And I've probably listened to that album like a thousand times, but there's some later stuff that I, I just am not familiar with because, you know, I got older and moved on, but yeah.
00:48:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:15
Speaker
And there's also, you know, hit the lights was from their first album and that's on the new game too.
00:48:20
Speaker
So, you know, it's it's a whole bunch of new songs.
00:48:25
Speaker
Who chose the songs?
00:48:27
Speaker
I think that was the band.
00:48:28
Speaker
I think they, um,
00:48:30
Speaker
that they're basically the ones that were like, these are the ones, you know, I'm not sure I wasn't involved in, in how that worked, but I know the band definitely played a large role.
00:48:41
Speaker
So I'm not, I'm not entirely sure.
00:48:44
Speaker
It's funny that you say that just because when we were there at Pinball Expo, Charlie Benante, if that's how you say his last name, the drummer of Anthrax was there.
00:48:54
Speaker
Because he was there with Tim Sexton.
00:48:56
Speaker
They did the WIC seminar.
00:48:59
Speaker
And it was funny because they were talking about
00:49:02
Speaker
hit songs.
00:49:03
Speaker
And he said, you know, it kind of stinks sometimes because you kind of, there's a hit song you make that you kind of don't want to play anymore because you have to just play it so many times.
00:49:10
Speaker
Right.
00:49:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:10
Speaker
You get tired of it.
00:49:11
Speaker
And so it's, it's funny because it's like, I half wonder if, if the band picked these songs because they genuinely love them or if it's one of those things like, yeah, we got to put it in there because it's like,
00:49:23
Speaker
like like those fans that threw a fit that dave graal didn't play ever long at one of the concerts this summer like it's my it's my band like i can play whatever i want you know
00:49:33
Speaker
That's funny.
00:49:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:34
Speaker
Well, I will say it's probably a mix because one thing I've looked at is when a band comes, you look at the set list.
00:49:45
Speaker
And when you look at the songs that the famous ones, the ones that are known for, and there's usually bands, if you're a great band, you have like six great songs that everybody knows.
00:49:55
Speaker
And, you know, sometimes you have bands that, you know, they're like,
00:49:59
Speaker
one or two songs that everybody knows and kind of filler.
00:50:02
Speaker
But if you look at the songs they select to couple with those other ones, it actually tells you a lot more about what the band actually likes to play.
00:50:13
Speaker
because eventually you are going to get tired of the ones, even your hits, you're going to get tired of them.
00:50:19
Speaker
But when you see them mixing in some other ones, it makes me take a little more, pay a little more attention to those other songs because it's like the, these are the songs that mean something to the band.
00:50:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:32
Speaker
Well, I mean, luckily in Metallica's case, they have like,
00:50:35
Speaker
a million songs that everybody knows and loves.
00:50:37
Speaker
So like when they had their concert in Chicago, I went, I was going to go both nights.
00:50:41
Speaker
They actually had so many songs that they were able to have two completely different set lists on Friday and Sunday.
00:50:48
Speaker
And I went on Friday and they didn't even play enter Sandman or one or the unforgiven.
00:50:58
Speaker
Like,
00:50:59
Speaker
Three of what I would call their everybody knows them songs, right?
00:51:02
Speaker
Yeah, they're the banger songs.
00:51:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:04
Speaker
So obviously they played them on Sunday, but they didn't they didn't play them on Friday, which just tells you like how many good songs this band has.
00:51:12
Speaker
And I was kind of bummed I didn't get to see him on Sunday because I was actually still playing in a tournament that was running late and I was playing on Metallica.
00:51:20
Speaker
in the final four and i won that game so i was kind of at the metallica concert in spirit it was a sign i had a huge crank it up for the win uh it was that was a fun tournament that was uh i think that was the andy bagwell silver ball social that he runs every year at entarium oh nice so so that concert you went to was that the same one with iron ice nine keels opening and limp biscuit is the the co-headliner
00:51:47
Speaker
No, those names don't sound familiar.
00:51:49
Speaker
Okay, that must be the current tour.
00:51:50
Speaker
It was the latest 72 Seasons tour that they just did, yeah.
00:51:54
Speaker
Well, I know they're switching between Suicidal Tendencies and Pantera one night, and then the other night is Ice Nine Kills and
00:52:01
Speaker
and Limp Bizkit.
00:52:02
Speaker
And so maybe that's the new lineup because they just reannounced 72 still going and they're doing it again this summer.
00:52:08
Speaker
The first one you said sounded more familiar, yeah.
00:52:11
Speaker
Okay.
00:52:11
Speaker
I don't know.
00:52:12
Speaker
I got there late.
00:52:14
Speaker
When I did go, I didn't see the opener.
00:52:17
Speaker
I got there at like
00:52:18
Speaker
you know, right when the band went on, which worked out for me, but I didn't realize how far parking is downtown.
00:52:25
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:52:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:27
Speaker
You got there for the opener, but you didn't get there because of parking.
00:52:30
Speaker
Well, traffic to traffic and parking traffic was awful.
00:52:34
Speaker
I need to figure out how to, you know, do what every other Chicago does and take the, uh,
00:52:39
Speaker
the L everywhere.
00:52:39
Speaker
But unfortunately, you know, I'm just outside, like on the suburbs where I'd have to somehow get to an L station first.
00:52:46
Speaker
And at that point I'm already in my car.
00:52:47
Speaker
I'm like, uh, you know, let's see.
00:52:53
Speaker
I'm, I'm actually just scanning.
00:52:55
Speaker
It looks like the closest I could get is, uh, maybe I'll have to go to Vegas, April 12th, Denver.
00:53:01
Speaker
Just, just drive through and pick me up.
00:53:03
Speaker
Let's go to Denver.
00:53:04
Speaker
I think I'd rather go to Vegas.
00:53:07
Speaker
party pooper.
00:53:08
Speaker
I know.
00:53:08
Speaker
Sorry.
00:53:09
Speaker
Like Denver's actually kind of a pain for me.
00:53:12
Speaker
Like, Oh, it's Josh on the East side of Utah and you're on the West side.
00:53:16
Speaker
So I, I'm in the, you know, I'm in the big city.
00:53:19
Speaker
Well, okay.
00:53:19
Speaker
I'm not really, I'm, I'm in like the Elk Grove of Salt Lake city.
00:53:23
Speaker
And so like, you know, I, I'm about 30 minutes from downtown in, in a suburb, but yeah, Josh is like three hours away from me.
00:53:31
Speaker
Actually.
00:53:32
Speaker
Josh, we've known each other for what, like eight years.
00:53:34
Speaker
I've still never been to his house.
00:53:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:37
Speaker
He even messaged me once.
00:53:38
Speaker
So there's this big lake by where I live.
00:53:41
Speaker
It's called Flaming Gorge.
00:53:43
Speaker
And the river is like world-class fly fishing.
00:53:46
Speaker
And it's the Green River.
00:53:47
Speaker
And there was even a movie made with it with Brad Pitt called like A River Flows Through It or something.
00:53:51
Speaker
River Runs Through It.
00:53:53
Speaker
River Runs Through It.
00:53:54
Speaker
So it's funny because like Scott texts me.
00:53:55
Speaker
He's like, what is there to do up at like Flaming Gorge?
00:53:57
Speaker
I'm like, are you like...
00:54:00
Speaker
30 minutes from me.
00:54:00
Speaker
You're not going to stop by.
00:54:01
Speaker
Okay.
00:54:02
Speaker
I, I had, okay.
00:54:03
Speaker
I had like my young man, my young men's group from church.
00:54:07
Speaker
It's not like, okay, everybody, we're just taking a big detour and going to my friend's house.
00:54:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:11
Speaker
You should have, you should be like, and we're going to stop.
00:54:13
Speaker
It's funny in life.
00:54:14
Speaker
You get that, you get that situation quite a bit where you're so close to someone yet so far away.
00:54:19
Speaker
Like, like, you're like, Oh, can we just like, you know, right there?
00:54:23
Speaker
Or like, yep.
00:54:26
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's, that's awesome.
00:54:28
Speaker
Um,
00:54:29
Speaker
Okay.
00:54:30
Speaker
What, uh, what's the one moment that you put in this game that people who are familiar with Metallica that are going to say, wow, that, that, you know, it's the moment maker, right?
00:54:44
Speaker
It's the, this is the it thing.
00:54:47
Speaker
So what is it about this version that is going to affect people?
00:54:53
Speaker
Well, I mean, what's the ball rug coming out, you know?
00:54:56
Speaker
I mean, probably when you start electric chair multiball, it's got all the same cadence as the other one, but now there's UV and Sparky moves a lot more violently.
00:55:05
Speaker
And you kind of feel the whole game kind of shake.
00:55:09
Speaker
It's very intense, and it's definitely a moment maker.
00:55:14
Speaker
And then just like the hammer mech is so good now.
00:55:19
Speaker
So good.
00:55:20
Speaker
Oh, yeah, so good.
00:55:21
Speaker
So amazing that like...
00:55:23
Speaker
You just, you have the ball trapped.
00:55:26
Speaker
And I don't know if you guys, have you guys watched the gameplay video me and Borg did?
00:55:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:30
Speaker
It, it, it looks, it's impressive.
00:55:33
Speaker
You shoot that thing and it's just like stops dead in its tracks and then just smashes it down.
00:55:38
Speaker
And it just, it just all looks so cool.
00:55:42
Speaker
So I really like those two moments for sure.
00:55:45
Speaker
But I mean, everything in the game, you know, when you start Grave Marker and you see the grave, you know, rise up and the animations that are just so, they just fit so perfectly.
00:55:57
Speaker
Like the animations absolutely crushed it.
00:56:02
Speaker
Yeah, it's incredible.
00:56:06
Speaker
So I got to know, is Gary Stern a metalhead?
00:56:09
Speaker
Because between Metallica, you've got like,
00:56:12
Speaker
I saw like a picture of Kerry King in Stern the other day.
00:56:15
Speaker
You got Scott Ian from Anthrax showing up, Charlie Benante.
00:56:19
Speaker
Okay.
00:56:20
Speaker
I get a vibe that he's like a Hall & Oates guy.
00:56:24
Speaker
I have no idea.
00:56:26
Speaker
Where are all these metal guys coming from?
00:56:28
Speaker
I should hang out with Gary Moore, I feel like.
00:56:31
Speaker
I'm pretty sure he's a Hall & Oates guy.
00:56:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:35
Speaker
Okay.
00:56:36
Speaker
So the, um, as with everything, I'm assuming you, I'm assuming Stern is developing, uh, you know,
Future Accessories and Raymond's Music Taste
00:56:43
Speaker
accessories for this.
00:56:43
Speaker
You know, I I'm assuming there's a topper in development.
00:56:47
Speaker
I'm assuming there's a shooter in development, all this kind of stuff.
00:56:50
Speaker
Um, is, is there, is there any estimation on when we're going to see any of that stuff?
00:56:56
Speaker
Um,
00:56:58
Speaker
I mean, we have what we would like.
00:57:00
Speaker
You know, the estimation that we want is very soon.
00:57:03
Speaker
You know, we want it as soon as we can, but we got to make sure that we have them and that...
00:57:11
Speaker
They're made right.
00:57:15
Speaker
They all get announced at once.
00:57:17
Speaker
You can trick out your game completely.
00:57:19
Speaker
You're not waiting for the shooter knob.
00:57:22
Speaker
You're waiting for the expression lights.
00:57:23
Speaker
You're waiting for the topper.
00:57:25
Speaker
The
00:57:29
Speaker
accessories and stuff, the code and stuff is pretty much there for that.
00:57:32
Speaker
So, you know, we're, we're full steam.
00:57:36
Speaker
I'm excited for people to, to get them.
00:57:39
Speaker
Cause I know a lot of people love their accessories.
00:57:42
Speaker
It looks like Scott, you're missing an iron maiden topper there.
00:57:45
Speaker
I am missing an iron.
00:57:46
Speaker
Okay.
00:57:46
Speaker
So here's, here's my question.
00:57:48
Speaker
My question is the only topper.
00:57:51
Speaker
So you guys made a topper for the premium.
00:57:55
Speaker
It was like, you know, it was the Egyptian theme.
00:57:58
Speaker
And you guys have never remade it.
00:58:00
Speaker
So you only have the, you know, the 3D one, the Aces High one.
00:58:04
Speaker
But part of the, just like the Aces High topper on the Egyptian theme doesn't seem to fit as well.
00:58:10
Speaker
So I'm torn.
00:58:12
Speaker
I want to get.
00:58:13
Speaker
You could buy an LE and then you'll, then you won't have the Egyptian theme and you'll be able to put the Aces High topper.
00:58:19
Speaker
Right, right.
00:58:19
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's true.
00:58:20
Speaker
It's true.
00:58:21
Speaker
You know, I, what I could do is I could get the aces high topper and then change Eddie out for like a, you know, a Pharaoh that's flying the, the jet.
00:58:31
Speaker
You know, I actually didn't even know that we had a topper for the Egyptian version.
00:58:35
Speaker
That's cool.
00:58:35
Speaker
No, you'll have to look for it.
00:58:36
Speaker
It's you know, I think it may have, no, maybe it wasn't at Logan.
00:58:40
Speaker
Maybe they had the aces high topper or the aces high topper.
00:58:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:58:43
Speaker
Just Google it.
00:58:44
Speaker
It's just like topper Egyptian.
00:58:46
Speaker
Maybe I'll send it to you later.
00:58:47
Speaker
But yeah, it's, but you guys have, I really have tried to figure out what to do.
00:58:52
Speaker
And I think I'll probably just end up pulling the trigger on the aces high topper.
00:58:56
Speaker
Don't do it.
00:58:56
Speaker
Gomez is secretly making you a pyramid.
00:58:58
Speaker
What does we say?
00:58:59
Speaker
No, he's not.
00:59:00
Speaker
No, he's not.
00:59:03
Speaker
You need to start hitting him up again.
00:59:04
Speaker
You just need to bug him, you know?
00:59:08
Speaker
No, it's fun.
00:59:10
Speaker
And then you'll find out to George Gomez that lives in Reno.
00:59:13
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:59:14
Speaker
Okay.
00:59:14
Speaker
So we told that story, right?
00:59:16
Speaker
Yeah, we did.
00:59:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:18
Speaker
And he said thank you for being with us.
00:59:20
Speaker
I saw George Gomez when they were – so I was at the factory tour at the end kind of babysitting the Metallicas.
00:59:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:28
Speaker
And so people – did you guys go on the factory tour this year?
00:59:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:31
Speaker
Yeah, we did.
00:59:32
Speaker
Tim actually took me on the tour.
00:59:34
Speaker
Oh, cool.
00:59:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:35
Speaker
I, I'm sorry if I don't remember, if you literally had a 20 minute conversation with me, I was so.
00:59:42
Speaker
You were busy.
00:59:43
Speaker
I waved.
00:59:46
Speaker
I talked to you briefly at expo and you were, you were so busy.
00:59:49
Speaker
It was, it was, yeah, it was a crazy, it was like a reveal, you know, and I'm just like everywhere all at once sort of thing.
00:59:55
Speaker
But, um, uh, what was I, where was I going with this?
01:00:00
Speaker
At the Stern tour, you were.
01:00:02
Speaker
Oh, George Gomez.
01:00:03
Speaker
I saw someone with a name tag that said George Gomez.
01:00:05
Speaker
And I was like, did you steal that out of George's office?
01:00:08
Speaker
It's like, no, my name is George Gomez.
01:00:12
Speaker
Well, OK, so we told the story on the last episode, but because we've been before Expo, we were talking about, hey, we're ordering hats, but we want to make sure if you really want a hat, make sure you order it.
01:00:23
Speaker
And so George Gomez ordered two hats.
01:00:26
Speaker
And so Josh went up to George Gomez of Stern and said like, Hey, here's the hats.
01:00:32
Speaker
And George is kind of looking confused.
01:00:33
Speaker
Like, Oh, okay.
01:00:34
Speaker
Thanks.
01:00:36
Speaker
Well, he wasn't confused.
01:00:37
Speaker
Cause we messaged him before.
01:00:38
Speaker
Oh, that's right.
01:00:39
Speaker
We said, which size he's like, Oh, I need this size.
01:00:42
Speaker
So you gave him a hat and then you gave the other George Gomez a hat and everyone got hats?
01:00:47
Speaker
Well, okay, we ran out of hats.
01:00:49
Speaker
We had to order him and mail him to the George Gomez in Reno.
01:00:52
Speaker
I'm still waiting for his to be finished.
01:00:54
Speaker
Yeah, and he's a super nice guy.
01:00:56
Speaker
He's like a cop.
01:00:58
Speaker
He's a cop or a police trainer or something like that in Reno.
01:01:01
Speaker
It's hilarious.
01:01:03
Speaker
That's funny.
01:01:03
Speaker
Well, is there anything that we missed that you want to talk about, Ray, before we shut this down and wrap it up?
01:01:10
Speaker
What should we have asked you about Metallica?
01:01:15
Speaker
I think I managed to shoehorn all my little anecdotes in appropriate places.
01:01:23
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it was just a lot of fun to work on.
01:01:26
Speaker
I'm excited that I'll be able to do code updates, get to see people play it.
01:01:33
Speaker
It was very popular at Expo, obviously.
01:01:41
Speaker
Oh, another thing was kind of balancing how much of the UI.
01:01:47
Speaker
I guess we talked about that too.
01:01:48
Speaker
Basically when you should see the UI, when you should see full screen videos versus, you know, I try to make it so you always have the score showing as much as possible once the ball is, you know, showing a multi-ball start or something.
01:02:00
Speaker
But it was just cool to be able to be kind of the lead and make decisions without, you know, it's like great power comes great responsibility.
01:02:09
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:10
Speaker
And it's fun.
01:02:12
Speaker
So I'm happy with it.
01:02:15
Speaker
And I hope everyone gets there soon.
01:02:18
Speaker
And...
01:02:19
Speaker
you know, loves it.
01:02:20
Speaker
It's going to be great.
01:02:22
Speaker
One thing I did forget.
01:02:23
Speaker
Now I, I know that when you started rush, you actually didn't know much of the rush music.
01:02:27
Speaker
Um, uh, Foo Fighters.
01:02:29
Speaker
Did you know much of the Foo Fighters music?
01:02:31
Speaker
Was that, no, I knew probably less Foo Fighters than I did rush.
01:02:36
Speaker
Um, Metallica.
01:02:37
Speaker
I only knew Metallica from the old Metallica game.
01:02:43
Speaker
because I didn't, before the old Metallica game, I had never really listened to Metallica, but then since that game came out, I had slowly been adding those, the pinball songs to my playlists.
01:02:54
Speaker
And, um, then now that this game came out, I got to listen to them all again.
01:02:58
Speaker
Now in stereo, you know, it sounds really good on a spike to, uh, system.
01:03:03
Speaker
So, um, yeah, there's a lot of Metallica songs.
01:03:06
Speaker
I really like, um, pretty much all of ride.
01:03:09
Speaker
The lightning is fantastic.
01:03:12
Speaker
Uh,
01:03:14
Speaker
I actually like Enter Sandman and Unforgiven.
01:03:16
Speaker
I know that's a hot take, but I really like him.
01:03:20
Speaker
The Black Album came out when I was in high school, and that was the album that everybody said they sold out on it, but it was a mass appeal.
01:03:28
Speaker
There are great songs on there.
01:03:32
Speaker
You kind of need an entry point, right?
01:03:34
Speaker
I feel like that is one of the best entry points to Metallica.
01:03:38
Speaker
Listen to the Black Album.
01:03:39
Speaker
If you don't like the Black Album, you're probably not going to like their other stuff.
01:03:43
Speaker
It's the Gateway album.
01:03:44
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:45
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:46
Speaker
That's why I always felt bad.
01:03:47
Speaker
I don't know if you guys know who Atreyu is.
01:03:50
Speaker
Okay, yes, I've heard of Atreyu.
01:03:52
Speaker
Yeah, go on.
01:03:54
Speaker
Not the dragon from The NeverEnding Story.
01:03:56
Speaker
There was an actual band called Atreyu.
01:03:56
Speaker
I've never seen that movie.
01:03:58
Speaker
I don't know.
01:04:00
Speaker
I've never seen Labyrinth.
01:04:01
Speaker
Well, okay, I saw Labyrinth once and I don't want to see it again.
01:04:04
Speaker
I had never heard of Labyrinth and everything I saw about it made me feel similar to how Scott feels, which is this would be a movie where I would watch it and be like,
01:04:13
Speaker
what yeah what happened yeah but i'm sure if i watched it if i watched it when i was a kid i probably would have loved it you know and i think that's what happens now you now you see david bowie dancing around with this shiny cod piece and you're just like what is going on yeah weird but i'm sure you did the same thing they were like a death metal scream band and then they made like a
01:04:33
Speaker
a mainstream rock album and they caught a lot of slack from their fans, but it propel them.
01:04:39
Speaker
If you haven't listened to, it's called lead cells and or lead cells and paper anchors, amazing album.
01:04:45
Speaker
But, but then they like reverted back because they got so much hate mail for what they had done.
01:04:51
Speaker
It was very interesting because I felt like they kind of slid back into obscurity after doing that.
01:04:55
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
01:04:58
Speaker
I got started with the Black Album and with the ones that the pinball game had.
01:05:02
Speaker
But then as I'm going back and listening to their other stuff, I like it too.
01:05:07
Speaker
Yeah, Master of Puppets will always be just incredible.
01:05:13
Speaker
Metallica actually went through phases.
01:05:15
Speaker
Not too many bands have the longevity to actually go through phases.
01:05:20
Speaker
Like Rush went through phases and any Rush fan can tell you what phase is their favorite.
01:05:25
Speaker
I'm actually an outlier.
01:05:27
Speaker
I like the 80s phase, the synth phase.
01:05:30
Speaker
Or like subdivisions?
01:05:32
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:35
Speaker
Basically, my favorite albums are Moving Pictures through Hold Your Fire.
01:05:39
Speaker
There's eight albums right there.
01:05:42
Speaker
And it is...
01:05:45
Speaker
Sorry, that's nine.
01:05:46
Speaker
But it's like there are a lot of stuff that people are like, oh, this is not anything like Rush.
01:05:51
Speaker
I'm so glad they went back to the other stuff.
01:05:53
Speaker
I'm like, that's fine.
01:05:54
Speaker
But that was my teenage years.
01:05:55
Speaker
And so like, that's when I listened to all that.
01:05:58
Speaker
But yeah, it's okay.
01:06:00
Speaker
So
01:06:03
Speaker
Did you, you had an appreciation for the band, but in, in just getting the, so I'm, I'm kind of curious, right?
01:06:10
Speaker
What is on your set list?
01:06:11
Speaker
If you, if, if you're not, if you were familiar with rush, if you weren't familiar with Foo Fighters, weren't familiar with Metallica outside of the, the game, what is on your set, your playlist?
01:06:21
Speaker
I mean, honestly, it's probably at least 50% video game music.
01:06:25
Speaker
Okay.
01:06:26
Speaker
Then there's a, every weird Al song that he's ever released.
01:06:30
Speaker
I have on my phone.
01:06:33
Speaker
um and then just kind of various random other things like smash mouth uh stuff that i grew up with in the 90s like pop whatever pop rock was you know in the 90s like blink 22 yeah that kind of yeah some of that stuff um and then this other just popular music i don't know stuff you'd hear on the radio like i'm one of the weird people that like
01:06:56
Speaker
pop is what I like.
01:06:57
Speaker
Like, like whatever is popular.
01:06:59
Speaker
That's not weird.
01:07:01
Speaker
That's not weird.
01:07:02
Speaker
Okay.
01:07:03
Speaker
I guess it's weird that I'm admitting it.
01:07:04
Speaker
Right.
01:07:05
Speaker
Okay.
01:07:06
Speaker
I love it when people talk about hating on Nickelback and Creed.
01:07:09
Speaker
I'm just like, they sold like a ton of albums.
01:07:12
Speaker
Someone bought those.
01:07:13
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:13
Speaker
Like I, I had, I had some Nickelback.
01:07:16
Speaker
I had some Creed.
01:07:17
Speaker
Like we all bought the albums and then pretending like they're not cool.
01:07:20
Speaker
I'm like, yeah, yeah.
01:07:21
Speaker
You, you still went to the concerts.
01:07:23
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:24
Speaker
So,
01:07:25
Speaker
You look forward to Christmas every year.
01:07:27
Speaker
So when they on thaw Mariah Carey, you can enjoy her Christmas single.
01:07:31
Speaker
Okay.
01:07:32
Speaker
One thing that is hilarious though, if you haven't done it, you can put on the, the twisted sister Christmas album.
01:07:39
Speaker
because it's actually hilarious.
01:07:40
Speaker
And he, cause he goes through and he, so their, their breakout song was, we're not going to take it, you know, and I want to rock, you know, they were from the same album, but the funny thing is we're not going to take it.
01:07:52
Speaker
Someone pointed out, you know, that's actually the same chord progression as like,
01:07:57
Speaker
Oh, come all you faithful or something like that.
01:08:00
Speaker
Well, yeah, that's the other 25% is a classic rock, like Boston, Leonard Skinner, um, stuff from the set.
01:08:06
Speaker
Oh, okay.
01:08:08
Speaker
I saw something, you know, the Boston third stage album with the alien thing.
01:08:13
Speaker
It's a guitar.
01:08:15
Speaker
Turn it upside down.
01:08:16
Speaker
That's their first album is a giant guitar.
01:08:18
Speaker
Is it their first one or second?
01:08:20
Speaker
Okay.
01:08:21
Speaker
Their main album, Boston, with the guitar, the spaceship, is a giant guitar.
01:08:26
Speaker
It's a giant guitar inverted.
01:08:27
Speaker
Yeah, that's something I just barely found out.
01:08:29
Speaker
That is probably, in my opinion, the greatest album of all time.
01:08:34
Speaker
But yeah, I love that first album, Boston.
01:08:37
Speaker
So good.
01:08:38
Speaker
Nice.
01:08:39
Speaker
If you want a really funny, kooky Christmas song, Sum41 teamed up with Jack Black and he made a song called All I Want for Christmas.
01:08:54
Speaker
No.
01:08:55
Speaker
All the Cool Things I Want for Christmas or something like that.
01:08:57
Speaker
It's hilarious.
01:08:59
Speaker
It's definitely not appropriate to play on this podcast.
01:09:02
Speaker
Anything Jack Black probably isn't appropriate for anyone.
01:09:05
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:05
Speaker
But it's pretty great.
01:09:07
Speaker
If you haven't heard it, definitely check it out.
01:09:11
Speaker
Just type in some 41 in Jack Black and it'll pop it right up for you.
01:09:14
Speaker
The Bare Naked Ladies Christmas album was actually really good.
01:09:17
Speaker
Yes.
01:09:18
Speaker
I put that on too occasionally.
01:09:20
Speaker
I can't wait for Stern to come out with the Bare Naked Ladies pinball machine.
01:09:23
Speaker
I know Ed Robertson would never say they need one, but I think the rest of the world would agree they need to have a pinball machine from Stern.
01:09:30
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:32
Speaker
It would be a little challenging given the founding, you know, like the Ed, Ed is not talking to one of the founding members of the band for.
01:09:41
Speaker
Oh, they made up and they got, they got back together a couple of years ago.
01:09:44
Speaker
I don't think he's back in the band, but they did like a reunion show.
01:09:48
Speaker
Oh, five years ago.
01:09:49
Speaker
Well, good for them.
01:09:50
Speaker
I know that he, the, the, okay.
01:09:52
Speaker
What was the other guy's name?
01:09:53
Speaker
It was Ed Robertson.
01:09:54
Speaker
And I, I can't remember.
01:09:56
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:58
Speaker
He went through, he went through a lot of issues.
01:10:00
Speaker
So.
01:10:01
Speaker
All right.
01:10:01
Speaker
Well, thank you so much, Ray.
01:10:03
Speaker
We are so excited for this game.
01:10:05
Speaker
I feel this game is going to be...
01:10:09
Speaker
it's going to be like the L one games that you guys put on the line, like every other month.
01:10:14
Speaker
I think Metallica is going to be on the line every other month for the next five years.
01:10:19
Speaker
Like this thing is going to keep selling.
01:10:22
Speaker
It will, it will.
01:10:23
Speaker
Oh man, that's awesome to hear.
01:10:24
Speaker
I hope so.
01:10:25
Speaker
I'm super excited to be a part of it.
01:10:27
Speaker
And I think it's just awesome that a lot of new people get to experience such a great game.
01:10:32
Speaker
And yeah, it's a lot of fun to work on.
01:10:36
Speaker
It's awesome.
01:10:38
Speaker
If you want to get a hold of Raymond Davidson, how do they get a hold of you, Ray?
01:10:44
Speaker
You can usually, I mean, Facebook message or Discord, ratedpinball.com.
01:10:52
Speaker
I don't know.
01:10:53
Speaker
It's easy.
01:10:55
Speaker
Ray has a really active Discord.
01:10:56
Speaker
So if you like talking rules and pinball, that's a good one to go on.
01:11:02
Speaker
Or pinball hot takes.
01:11:03
Speaker
Yep.
01:11:05
Speaker
If you want to get ahold of us, we are lose a kid pinball podcast at gmail.com.
01:11:08
Speaker
You can get ahold of us on Facebook, Instagram, X, Twitch, YouTube.
01:11:14
Speaker
If you're watching right now, also, uh, we haven't done it for a couple episodes, but let's do a content creator of the episode, uh, nap arcade.
01:11:21
Speaker
If you want all of your updates and all the cool stuff, go check out nap arcade.
01:11:24
Speaker
And if you're loving what you hear about what Ray day did with Metallica and you're just jonesing for a new pinball machine,
01:11:31
Speaker
Where do you get it again, Scott?
01:11:33
Speaker
Okay, Zach and Nicole Mini flipping out pinball and telling them loser kid sent you.
01:11:36
Speaker
But I'm not kidding.
01:11:37
Speaker
This isn't hyperbole.
01:11:38
Speaker
Buy Metallica.
01:11:39
Speaker
This game is awesome.
01:11:41
Speaker
And even if you had a Metallica in the past, this is like unwrapping Christmas and Easter and Flag Day all at once.
01:11:50
Speaker
It's amazing.
01:11:52
Speaker
and like scott said tell them loser kid sent you because they'll give you something extra special they'll help you we're not allowed yeah we're not allowed to talk about it here but you talk about them on messenger so scott send us off what do you say you know what seriously go by metallica i know no no qualifications whatever buy metallica and if you can get a hold of an le you you get that le
01:12:17
Speaker
Thank you.