Transcript
Speaker: Quest Quest. The Adventure Game Podcast with Benny and the Gooch. that the one you want to go with? Benny and the Gooch. You really want to go with that one?
Speaker: Benny and the Gooch. You're not going to reevaluate? You're not going to take a another look? Do you not care for Benny? You know, I'm not really a Bennyman.
Speaker: You're Benjamin. Yeah, I am a Benjamin. Hello, and this is Quest Quest, the adventure game podcast. That's right. With Benny and the Gooch. I don't know if you want that one.
Speaker: don't know i don't know if that's one look i think a little bit more zoo crew energy in here is what the people are asking for and you know we got jerked around about you know how many times our music should loop and other things like that whether or not we should ever have a space quest 4 episode we get lots of feedback there but the most consistent feedback i get is i wish this was more like a morning zoo crew with a couple of shock jocks You know, ah when
Speaker: i did my incredible previous podcast, the... ah last last best thank you last best Babylon 5 podcast I didn't forget the name of my podcast I was just uh pausing for effect uh but when I was doing that it didn't get canceled it was just pausing for effect yeah no it didn't get I mean we we did everything there wasn't there wasn't any more I'm at Babylon 5
Speaker: uh devil on five also finished it and on its own terms a day it was a five-year famously it was a five-year plan and it ended on its own terms now then all the characters joined the cast of deep space nine right and everybody joined deep space nine it got crowded those last few where yeah where they where the cancellations happened was the uh spinoffs Like there's one spinoff that made it 13 episodes and then like a, of like a pilot that went nowhere.
Speaker: and then of course, Sierra's Babylon five game. Yeah, there was that. They even had like had the, the series composer make music for the Sierra. Like that exists out there. You can find it. um But that's not why I brought up my incredible podcast podcast.
Speaker: the best last Babylon fab. but I was once again, pausing for effect. Oh, I'm sorry. I see. You seem like you're forgetting it. You really seem like there's this look of befuddlement on your face. Please continue. I had, I had a look of, uh, seriousness.
Speaker: Well, let me try. and and then you like, like I'm Ben's last podcast.
Speaker: You see, again, like I feel like that's when you should have said it. Now I was I was pausing for effect. You can't. hit Can you handle this? Can you handle a moment of silence? i turn inward and I don't like what I see.
Speaker: do you start to do you start to think like yeah is that is that when the anxiety creeps in? That's when the anxiety creeps in. Yeah. And I am gone. I am now. Yeah. The feral version of myself. I'm in fight or flight.
Speaker: And, you know, it's game over. I'm sorry to scare you and our other listeners who, who, who who listened to podcasts, uh, to drown out the negative voices in their head. except but yeah, we shouldn't talk about the negative voices in our head when people are trying to drown out the negative voices in their own head, because now it's like our negative voices are having a conversation with their negative voices. But Ben, you were talking about your previous podcast, uh,
Speaker: The last Fast Babylon 5 podcast. ah In like the last year or so of it, ah that was when we swapped over to a ah different podcasting, like record ah tool and host.
Speaker: ah that like the one we're using now ah which has a full soundboard and ah you know i think in the very earliest episodes of Quest Quest I tried to use the soundboard a little more ah obnoxiously and you you didn't He didn't really, like, you like the the reaction wasn't quite there.
Speaker: In the last Fast Babylon 5 podcast, when I was granted the soundboard, i used it only to torture... ah my co-host specifically one of my two co-hosts but both of them anyway just to be maximally maximally like irritating and upsetting and like playing sound effects and quotes and music at him anytime he tried to speak Uh, and, uh, so if you, if you want that morning zoo energy, just know that I can, I can, you know, pop that open, but I don't think you'll like what's behind that door.
Speaker: I feel like we have at least 20 more episodes before quest becomes fully antagonistic. I don't think we're there yet, but I think we could be on a path toward actively trying to ruin one other's experience. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: uh yeah no i just don't think our our dynamic is different the the dynamic dynamic dynamics part of the sierra family yes i mean i command and demand respect i think is a big part i command and conquer respect red alert yes uh yes how you doing jess you know ben um i've never been better I don't believe that.
Speaker: I'm fine. You know, doing pretty well. I mean, I, you know, it was a cooler day here. oh thank God. Yeah, it's been cooler here. Yeah, but at work, the heat was on for some reason, which isn't ideal. At 78 degrees when you have to teach for like 150 minutes straight.
Speaker: So like I came home a stinky boy and I don't like that. That's no fun. I had to shower. um Yeah. to Get home. Shower. yeah got to get home. Shower. i thought about just going through a car wash and getting out of the car on the way home. I felt so gross, but they frown on that too. You know, we live even in West Virginia, even in West Virginia. Well, they I mean, honestly, they would sound like, Oh, it was Mr. Fancy pants. Take a bath, ma'am.
Speaker: Ben, how's your day been? You know, i i i did everything right.
Speaker: I did everything right, period. but do you do you want like a medal? or do you No, please. ah I did everything right last night in order to sleep well.
Speaker: you know like devices off early i like i it was it was a new and new clean sheets night carpal tunnel wristbands on yeah uh i you know i had uh five weighted blankets on me and then 16 benadryl oh yeah uh 18
Speaker: you know i did everything i did everything right and then i still like and i haven't been having trouble sleeping but for some reason last night was just one of those nights where i did everything like correct to to sleep well and uh i i fell asleep but then i woke up way too early i woke up at five o'clock and i couldn't go right back to sleep that's a terrible what time and what time do you need to be up I have to be out of my bed at eight.
Speaker: Oh, five is way too early then. Yeah. And, ah and, and so I, you know, I did the thing where I just kind of laid there like, and that didn't work. And so I, you know, looked at my phone. Always a good idea. Always a great scenario.
Speaker: Um, and that didn't help. And so I, I tried laying there and I finally fall back asleep, but, and, and I do, but,
Speaker: But I, and this happens to me when, when I've had ah trouble sleeping like this, you ever have it where you're having trouble like sleeping because you woke up too early and then you finally fall back asleep and you just start having dreams about not sleeping well.
Speaker: Yeah. And just like the, that second falling asleep is never a good fall asleep. Like when I wake up like that and go back to sleep, I'm not sleeping my best sleep and I'm in weird dreamland. And and yeah, you're in weird dreamland and then you're, you get woken up by, uh, your alarm.
Speaker: Yes. Which now I resent and hate even more. Yeah. And, and so I've just been kind of wrong footed all day, you know, like just feeling like just kind of tired and yucky all day, you know?
Speaker: No, I mean, that's, there's no way to come back from that. Like your day is just, yeah there it's like, like I was just like, it and it's like, well, what do I do? Like, you know, like,
Speaker: Let's say I i took it like took a sick day. What would I do? Go back to to sleep? That's not going to work. that That's what got me in this mess. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker: Your best option is to not sleep tonight. That way tomorrow night you are so tired. Your body has no choice but to get a good night's sleep. Yeah, that's that's a great idea. That's a full reset. Tonight you're getting like, you like restarted Windows.
Speaker: But if you wait until tomorrow night, that's like actually powering down your computer and powering it back up. You're getting the freshest reboot you can get. Yeah, I think that's... unplugged it from the wall for five seconds, plugged it back in.
Speaker: You're a new man, Ben. That's exactly it yeah But yeah, I like so so today was just one of those days where like your your whole day is ruined because you you you didn't have a good night of sleep.
Speaker: Yeah, those are those are just just sitting there with a mild like headache, you know.
Speaker: horrible that's tear that's no way to live so you're saying that neither one of us is on our game to for this yeah so if you don't like this one ah tune in next week yeah yeah what's our topic next week uh kind of needs a friend um i think we might finally get to space quest uh for next week roger will call the time rippers now So is are the time rippers of the bad guys, right?
Speaker: No, Ben, we've discussed this. does Have we discussed this? We haven't done this episode. Well, I mean, yeah, I think in passing. Yeah, no, like, i like, like, uh, we'll talk about next week. less than night Yeah, next week we'll go into this.
Speaker: Why would you put the name of a group in your title but never actually refer to them as such in the game? Wouldn't that just create confusion? why is Time Ripper such a sinister sounding name if they're actually the good guys? They do sound like the bad guys. Yeah, I mean have you ever heard like...
Speaker: yeah General Jack T. Ripper in ah you know Dr. Strangelove is not a good guy. yeah know Ripper is not a... Ripper Torn. It's typically not... Yeah, Ripper Torn. Ripper Torn and Tipper Gore.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Oprah? Uma? Yeah.
Speaker: Ripper Torn and Tipper Gore is so good we should just stop. Like, let's just... And you know, it's going to connect with a lot of people who know who both of those people are. Ripper... Did he do that? Did he... Oh, go ahead. Yeah, I mean, yeah. His name's not Ripper Torn. ah
Speaker: Ripper Torn.
Speaker: Star Trek Gorn. Yeah. that Well, you know, ah i remember when Star Trek Gorn was the first lady. Oh.
Speaker: Ben, what's happening? Yeah. Should we just not do this one? No, we're doing it. We're in. The thing is, we got a good game to talk about. give have a good game to talk about, and we... I apologize to Juliette for listening.
Speaker: i But you know what I won't apologize about?
Speaker: What? What is the question? And the answer is, have you been playing? Yes. Yes.
Speaker: Well, Ben, speaking of Star Trek Gorn, you know, Star Trek recently celebrated its 60th anniversary. And they're celebrating all season long with terrible episodes of Strange New Worlds.
Speaker: I heard that the the latest one that came out the day of our record. Mm-hmm. Supposed to be good. It was better. It was much better. People seem to like this one. You'll never guess.
Speaker: James T. Kirk just happened to be dropping by the Enterprise. Mm-hmm. That's unlikely. You know how it is? fear You're just settling around the galaxy constantly and you're like, you look out your window of your shuttle and you're like, oh, there's there's a Star Trek. That's the Enterprise. Maybe I'll drop into my friend Spock and La'an.
Speaker: But anyway, so it's the 60th anniversary. I played a little bit of Star Trek Online this week. That is the MMO. Yeah, no, I know. Have you ever played Star Trek Online?
Speaker: are you one of those Are you one of those guys, are you about to tell me it's like, well actually, you know, start Trek Online, as you know, because it takes place after Deep Space Nine, it's actually quite interesting because you you really get an insight into like, yeah, actually the writing in it is is quite good. you you you really You really see, you know, the aftermath of the Dominion War in a brand new and interesting way. They got Harry Kim to do his voice.
Speaker: Whoa, he was available? He was available somehow. I think Admiral Janeway voiced her her own part. It sounded like Janeway.
Speaker: But let me tell Ben, I'm not going to tell you this is an interesting game or a good game. Oh, boy. I mean, I know it's long in the tooth at this point, but it is bizarre flashback to the way that MMOs used to be way back when.
Speaker: like lots of phaser based combat, which is not exactly good Star Trek usually. And like most MMOs, when i say phaser based combat, I mean, you press one after the cool down ends and your guy shoots another phaser beam.
Speaker: Then there's space combat, which is also not great. It's weird because every player who logs in and creates a character immediately becomes the captain of their own ship.
Speaker: So there are just like thousands of ships flying around all the starbanks. Like I immediately warp to Deep Space Nine and there are like 900 ships docked at Deep Space Nine because where else going to hang out other than DS9 if you're playing a game like that?
Speaker: yeah I mean... I've played World of Warcraft. Star Trek Online celebrated its anniversary this year. Wow. It came out in 2010. Wow.
Speaker: Wow. I mean, yeah, I played World of Warcraft recently after being away for almost that long or a little bit longer than that. No way. No, you can't say being away almost that long. I watched you stream it.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, I mean, I was away when I went back to play world of Warcraft. Uh, I've been away for like, that was like two years ago. Yeah. But I had played that. I just want to say, Oh, I see. I see. I see. It had modernized significantly since the last time I played it. And the last time you played it, you were complaining that it was too modern.
Speaker: That's right. I want to be more of a throwback. Um, Star Trek online has not modernized. It is for the sickos only at this point. Um, or the Cisco's only. Oh, He's with the profits now.
Speaker: I'm looking at playing. I'm looking. Hold on. Before we get there. I'm looking at this ah PC gamer article that came out in July of this year. After 16 years of exploring the final frontier, Star Trek online devs are quote, trying new things, end quote, and quote, trying to push the boundaries, end quote, of what they can achieve.
Speaker: So you don't agree with the the premise of this article? I basically played the tutorial and a little bit more. Let me tell though, in the tutorial. All right, i hold on. The tutorial is generally going to the same, right? Yeah, I mean, I didn't get the best ah opportunity to judge it. But also, I will say in the tutorial, I blew up like three Borg spears and a couple of Borg cubes just in the tutorial, which feels like...
Speaker: the stakes are going to be hard to elevate from there. Like if I'm single handedly, like running circles around a board cube in my crummy little, ah you know, second tier vessel, I've got one those upside down in the cell situations going on.
Speaker: You know i'm talking about? ah kind of. Then the cells are on the bottom. Yeah, terrible. I hate it. No, it's ah it's like a Reliant-style ship. not Not good from the start.
Speaker: But, yeah, I mean, it just... It's just an old MMO. and um The MMO formula, as we know it from 15 to 20 years ago, is a little crusty. But what formula isn't?
Speaker: it It is weird every time I hear about Star Trek Online. And I'm like, oh yeah, I guess that way. Like, because it's but kind of the perfect example of it's just like, yeah, we can, we, we like, start,
Speaker: because Because I remember at the time, like 2010, when it came out, people being like, yeah, it's not that good, but it is, you know, it's got enough Star Trek stuff in it. So I'll stick around.
Speaker: Yeah. Like they know the audience. I want to be forced to level my way up to captain. Like I want start out and I'm just the guy that slides the three sliders on the transporter.
Speaker: I'm instant Kyle or I'm miles O'Brien or whoever's right. That's all I want to do. And I want to have to do that. Right. The first 40 levels. And then like I'm on second shift bridge crew. I don't want to be a captain or I i want to have to really like earn my rank. I want, want to work for my pips. Well, Jess, there's this incredible new and unbelievable, like, you know, it will draw you in.
Speaker: And it's it's they're working on it, but it will be out very soon. uh uh this uh multiplayer game uh and its release is just around the corner and we'll have exactly what you're looking for yeah it's uh now do you remember wing commander yes well uh and and you've told me that you love uh privateer privateer absolutely well Now, and and you like ah you like ah like these massive online games, right? Can't get enough of them.
Speaker: Well, let's, ah you know, to to to coin a term from ah Star Trek, I just winked. we ah ah How about the best of both worlds here?
Speaker: And it's a ah a game coming out, and you can play it in alpha or whatever right now. It's called Star Citizen. Oh, And if I want to support the development, because this sounds like something that I'd really enjoy.
Speaker: Is there any way that I could like support development? You know, just, Like most games, like you usually like wait until they come out and then you purchase them.
Speaker: Oh, that seems like, i mean, that's how we did it in like the 2010s. i But what if I told you ah to support the development, you could ah put in as much money as you'd like?
Speaker: I mean, like, when you say as much money as i like, like $100? They'll take they'll take it Yeah. That's probably like the cap. Oh, no.
Speaker: ah ah Oh, man. How much money? How much money have they raised? Because I seem to recall telling like someone.
Speaker: Yeah, it's one billion. Every time I think about that, I'm like, no way. Like, really? It starts citizen has hit This was in variety. Yeah, this was in variety.
Speaker: As of May of this year. i Star Citizen raised one. billion dollars one now i'm doing the yeah yeah dollars yeah you know who my favorite character from that movie is though is it uh well i mean i you know fat bastard's pretty funny like no in my belly think he's a little insensitive oh okay that's fair that's fair how about a gold member like i love gold oh freaky deaky dutch uh yeah yeah yeah no no not gold member oh is it uh scott evil
Speaker: I don't know what his catchphrase is. Yeah. No, dad, don't want to be evil. No. do you remember the general from the first? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's like this montage scene. It's a, he's voiced by the guy who plays a Duke Phillips. Uh-huh. The critic. Charles Napier. Wonderful. Fabulous.
Speaker: And what's his line? Not too much.
Speaker: Anyway, Jess, I've been playing.
Speaker: so I think I've i've talked about that my, ah like, you know, when I go to my local arcade, and often with ah my my lovely boyfriend who who enjoys it, like all the arcade shit as well.
Speaker: he He has been pulling me over to play the the arcade cabs, the the old arcade cabinets. Like, he'll he'll play a bunch of pinball games, and he enjoys pinball okay, but he wants to play some of the the classic... Gotta have my mappy.
Speaker: Mappy is his favorite. Really? Mappy is his favorite. You're kidding. I'm not kidding. We play Mappy. That isn't what I was going to say, what I've been playing, but we play pretty extensive Mappy every time we're at the arcade. What a call.
Speaker: And i have to tell you, this was this was big. Last time I was at the arcade with him this this past weekend, um I got...
Speaker: for the first time, a perfect on the bonus stage. Oh. i Which I'd been working on. like I'd been like kind of routing it in my mind. I was like, how do I do the bonus stage? Because it it gives you no it gives you very little space for error. You have to to do the bonus stage...
Speaker: pop all the balloons in the bonus stage before the music is out. And it does not give you a lot of time to do it. um And you have to do it. Like pretty much there's a very specific a way to do it, I think.
Speaker: And I finally got that. But what I have in playing... So Mappy is his favorite. Number two ah is Dig Dug. Ooh, Dig loves Dig Dug. Dig Dug. I mean, I love Dig Dug. I mean, who...
Speaker: that being dig dug are like two delightful games. I hope that's how I go someday. Like someone just like jams an air hose in my mouth and just starts pumping. And then I explode.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Oh, beautiful. Like there's a certain poetry to it, but, uh, uh, No, I came here not to speak of Mappy or Dig Dug, two delightful games.
Speaker: I came here to speak of a classic game that I always... So he's always like, let's play Mappy and Dig Dug. And then like I'm always going to pick... like you know, something kind of like annoying.
Speaker: ah And of course, for me, that game has increasingly become Paperboy. Oh God, Paperboy is annoying. Paperboy is so annoying. It's such a dick of a game. it really is. It is.
Speaker: Paperboy... Like, I think the odds are quite low if you're listening that you don't know what paper boy is. But if you don't, paper boy is as as it is on the tin. You're a bicycling, made takeer a little boy ah delivering newspapers down the street.
Speaker: And ah you are always in motion. And you have to throw the papers. And so it's about like timing, like the time of like in kind of a space invaders way, like timing your throws. So it lands in the mailbox or at the front step.
Speaker: This is a fun mechanic with like the asymmetric angle at which the game operates. Oh, the angle of the game is built so hostile to the player. Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker: then the game is constantly throwing obstacles that one hit kill you. mm-hmm dogs like dogs and bees and tires and cars people mowing their yards right yeah a guy break dancing like that a little boy with a rc car uh like all this shit Um, and one thing I've realized having now played a lot of paper boy, um and also important to note because I played a lot of paper boy as a kid, but on the NES, which had, uh, you, you did it with the controller, the arcade paper boy, the, uh, controller is handlebars. Yes. Yes.
Speaker: um Which makes it extra tricky. Worse. Yes. I mean, it is good for immersion, not great for feeling like you're in control of this kid careening through a neighborhood.
Speaker: um And so I think part of the the trick of Paperboy is that it is kind of a memorization game. Yeah, absolutely. Because it's essentially a lot of the obstacles that it throws at you.
Speaker: It's not that you can't avoid them, but the game is considerably less difficult. Like if, if you anticipate all of them.
Speaker: Yeah. And so you really only do better at paper boy by playing a lot of paper boy. ah No, that's absolutely true. No, mean, and I have to say I played a lot of Paperboy as a kid, even though I was continually angry at it. Because let me tell you, Ben, it's a bullshit game.
Speaker: It's a bullshit game. But I found the little newspaper, like local paperboy does good sort of headlines, weirdly rewarding as a kid. Like the, you know, you did it, splash screen.
Speaker: made me pretty happy and i played a lot i think i had a home version of but i had a pc version of paperboy pc version of paper i think we had it on the nes i played it on the nes um I think that I had DOS version, then it's like, does that really exist? Is that a thing? I bet the DOS version of Paperboy was dog shit.
Speaker: Like, I can't imagine it being good. I'll be the judge of that. I'm looking it up now on Mewbie Games. up DOS. Oh, yeah, I'm looking at it now. It doesn't look great. Yeah, this is what I remember. And I think i probably, oh, God, this font.
Speaker: Oh, the spot. No, I must have played 900 hours of this. I think that I've like spent my entire childhood playing this. Ben, I sent you a link. I want you leave this god awful DOS spot. It's loading up. oof That looks.
Speaker: I mean, that is a nasty, nasty paper boy. That looks. That looks like Paperboy that they tried to to do in the AGI engine.
Speaker: Oh, it really kind of does, doesn't it? It's got this, like, super low-res, 16-color chunkiness. And it looks...
Speaker: So yucky. It doesn't have the resolution to pull off the asymmetric angle. Well, so everything's just like big giant blocks of, of terrible suburban neighborhood.
Speaker: But anyway, ah my big, uh, has been on So you have, uh, three difficulty options. I always pick easy street because you got to feel pretty fucking hard.
Speaker: Um, I made it to like ah in paper boy. It's each level is a day. i made it to Friday for the first time.
Speaker: Oh man. ben Like, which was, i was so delighted. i was like, Holy shit. I made it to Friday and paper boy.
Speaker: So there was a Friday. i just assumed it just quit having days at a point. i i the The real killer is ah like the first real difficulty gate in Paperboy is crossing the road.
Speaker: Like that is almost like you really, i fucked that up even when like having played it a million times and having the timing on it generally okay.
Speaker: But yeah, Paperboy is what I've been playing. And it is like, it is a game that I really like. Mappy is like fun and delightful and it doesn't make me angry.
Speaker: But ah like Paperboy makes me furious and I come back every time and I say to my boyfriend, I'm like, it's time for us to play. It's time for us to play Paperboy. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah I don't think I've ever played Mappy. Ben, don't want to play Paperboy. You can't have your Mappy until you eat your vegetables. You should play Mappy. Mappy's great. Is it? Yeah. The mouse always just, like, turned me off. No, Mappy's a lot fun.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Mappy's great. Like, it's ah it's a delightful... ah It's a delightful arcade game. bing Can I add a new segment to the show? What's that?
Speaker: What have you been recommending? Because i need to get this off my chest, and I think long-time listeners will appreciate hearing this. I was teaching my politics and video games class today, and speaking with my class about sort of analyzing video games as text and talking about how you can look at all the sorts of things you might look at when doing basic literary analysis. You know you might look at plot, character, themes, setting.
Speaker: And I said, you know a setting can really evoke some interesting political questions. And I went to my bank of games that I think have compelling ideas settings And I recommended to a classroom full of 30 students today, they should all go play Norco.
Speaker: So I'm now doing it IRL as well. That's what I've recommending. crossed over from, and now I don't have to talk about Norco on the podcast because I got it out of my system.
Speaker: No, I don't think so. you know, it's another good game. What's up? immortality yeah it's pretty good it's pretty good game that one yeah like but uh norco do you think you have any students that will take you up on it I am going to say 0% chance. And let me tell you why I think that. Because was a good boy. I would have done that.
Speaker: if I would have done that too. When I was a college student, yeah if if my cool professor who said there was an interesting like video game, I'd be like, all right, I'll check that out. That could be the problem is the cool professor part.
Speaker: But... but I will say why I think they won't read. Let me first preface this by saying I have an amazing group of students who seem really curious about this subject have asked some really interesting questions.
Speaker: They were assigned to play Papers, Please this week. Paperboy? Paperboy, please. Papers, boy, please. Ben, how can we get this mashup made? um We need to quickly launch a browser. wonder if someone has done that yet.
Speaker: No. Oh, trademark, trademark. I'm going mail this episode. I'm mailing this episode. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I signed them to play papers, please. And I think that, um,
Speaker: about a third of the class actually did it as a class assignment. So part of me feels like, and then most, ah even the ones who were familiar with it were like, I just watched a long play. I said, I really want you to play this one because the experience of the drudgery. Yeah, the experience is the, like the the systems and and rules of this game and the mechanics of it are part of the overall experience. Yeah, but like it's designed to be a frustrating game.
Speaker: Yes, but no hope no hope. So there's no chance that them are checking out Norco. Or if they are, they're gonna be like, what the fuck is this? Because they've never played a narrative of adventure before.
Speaker: They're not Quest Quest listeners. Oh, yeah. I'd give them extra credit if they were, if you're listening, if you're one of my students, uh, the next time you see me in class, just, just enter code, um, quest quest at checkout. And I will give you an extra three points. Yes. Uh, professor, why is that other guy? Like, who's that other guy? Where do you meet him?
Speaker: It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Okay. Well, ah so so this week this week, we are ah going to to discuss the wonderful game that we we've established. We had ah the the developer of this game, the designer of this game on the pod.
Speaker: It had a very nice chat with her. highly recommend listening to that episode. Fantastic episode. She was a wonderful guest. Julia Minamata. um and we' we're talking about the crimson diamond now first if you are wondering uh as you listen if i if we're going to as this is a mystery game and a game with like kind of whodunit stuff and stuff like that who did it that's true who did it i yeah that's professor yeah um
Speaker: We'll, we'll stay ah ah clear of that. And then if, if we so Dane enter a spoiler zone, we'll, we'll give you a warning.
Speaker: We'll give you a good warning. We'll give you a good warning. And we'll let you go this time. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, ah so yeah, we're talking about the 80s EGA text parser i ah adventure game mystery Crimson Diamond, which came out a couple of years ago now.
Speaker: i and ah yeah, it's a really it's a really wonderful game Yeah, I mean, we talked a bit about this on our episode with Julia, but sort of an opportunity to explore the game and in more depth was something we were both looking forward to getting around to. And it really is a fantastic game. you know Before we started recording, I said this to Ben. i think that I may stand by it as my thesis statement for talking about the Crimson Diamond.
Speaker: m I think if... you write this game off as just an homage to the Colonel's bequest that you are not giving it nearly enough credit.
Speaker: While that's the immediate stylistic reference point. And certainly they exist in the same genre of an Agatha Christie style mystery. You're really selling it short by assuming it's just a knockoff.
Speaker: They have a similar, ah like, kind of constructions. um Like, obviously, the Colonel's Bequest and this both take place in remote, ah large, like, kind of mansion houses.
Speaker: i i don't think it would be a spoiler to say that they end ah kind of with... a does the colonel's bequest end with type of uh like a like a not a really a quiz but it's like who was in this room what caused this crime who did this or is that more that's more the second one and the colonel's bequest amen ra okay yeah i don't remember that yeah and the colonel's bequest you pick who to save at the end of the game there's two characters without spoiling that game there are two characters struggling over a gun and basically whoever you choose there is the person who lives and if you choose correctly you've found the murderer if not he gets away with it basically um and then you get like the rundown of
Speaker: all the things you found and all the things you missed. So it's not the quiz that you see in Dagger of Amun-Ra as much as it is just like discovered people with real estate related secrets and like a list of who all you uncovered and if there was anyone missing. um So that's more of the Colonel's bequest. So this one, the end of Crimson Diamond, which again, we won't spoil, but it ends with,
Speaker: a quiz to see how much of this mystery you figured out is much closer to the dagger of Amun-Ra. And honestly, i feel like the dagger of Amun-Ra's questions are a little bit less on point. Like, so I felt like that's the quiz at the end of dagger of Amun-Ra felt kind of punishing. This did not, uh, like,
Speaker: the the The quiz of of all that, this didn't feel necessary. Like, this did not feel like a, oh, shit. Wait, what was that? who's me Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, last time I played Dagger of Amunra, which I played several times. Yeah. I missed enough little bits of the final quiz, despite knowing exactly who done it. I mean, you, you streamed it, I think this year, right? Yeah.
Speaker: And I still got the bad ending where Laura Bo gets murdered at the end of it. Yeah. Yeah. you like That's hard to do when you know the solution to the mystery to mess up the quiz so badly in that game.
Speaker: This quiz is, a little bit better thought out but a lot of this game is really well thought out so it's no surprise I mean this is a a beautifully conceived and particularly beautifully written game which I'm sure we'll talk a lot about Yeah, and and and before we move on from from what you just said, Jess, when we were talking a little bit before this, like that was also one of my like thoughts and notes. was it's like When I was revisiting it ah for for the podcast, um i i was again struck by...
Speaker: The ah level of care and thoughtfulness in ah the design across Um, and while it shares a similar type of setting, ah like a house, and it's an Agatha Christie mystery.
Speaker: um And there's, you know, mysterious like you eavesdrop at points like the the game actively invites these comparisons. Mm hmm.
Speaker: But at the same time, this is this this is
Speaker: it's it's a It's a game that has all of that, and then it also draws from 40, like the intervening 35, 40 years of adventure game design knowledge that was not available to Roberta ah Williams and ah the rest of the design staff at Sierra when they made the Colonel's Bequest. like That's right. I mean, for a game that is so clearly going for a throwback aesthetic, I think you can really see some of those modern lessons of adventure game design and just more of a modern sensibility about what good adventure game writing looks like. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: really really shining through in in the Crimson Diamond. And I think, yeah, for me, that's one of the real joys of it is, ah I mean, we sometimes talk and our friend and occasional guest, Grayson, I think this is particularly a sticking point for him.
Speaker: the need for better editing and adventure games. there A lot of adventure games are overly wordy in the wrong ways. um This one...
Speaker: is much more elegant in its writing. I think that it, it nails that part of the assignment. And when it does dive deep, like you have this interesting element of, you know, our character, Nancy Maple, and and we'll talk about what this story is all about in just a second, but your, your protagonist, Nancy Maple is,
Speaker: a geologist by trade, not necessarily an amateur sleuth, not necessarily, guess she's a mineralogist, right? Uh, not geologist. Same thing. I don't know how the natural sciences work. I'm a social scientist. wait for me to give you an answer. I'm a social scientist. Um, but,
Speaker: She's not sleuth by trade. She's not a newspaper reporter anything like Lara Boe. So you occasionally get a chance to just see her being nerdy about minerals and gems and things like that.
Speaker: And that's wonderful. It feels so idiosyncratic, reflecting, as Julia talked about in our interview, her own interests, but also making this game feel like something that probably only she would have and could have created, which I love that about it it. is both universally appealing, I feel like, to people who love these sorts of retro adventures, but also uniquely in her voice. And I love that about it.
Speaker: i Yeah, no. And and and I'll say a thing I really...
Speaker: like about Nancy Maple as a protagonist is that, so as you said, she's a mineralogist ah or a geologist or, oh,
Speaker: I should have wrote that down, huh? ah um But what I love about it... She wasn't rock. She was a rock lobster. um What I love about it is um that her in-depth knowledge of mineral rocks and minerals and, you know, stones and stuff is integral.
Speaker: to her solving the various mysteries wi over the course of the game, you'd think that, like, oh, well, like, you know, it's like, well Laura Bowe, she's like, a she's going Tulane for journalism, later as a journalist. It's like, okay, well, like, you know, she's kind of an investigator. It's like, well...
Speaker: Nancy Maple is solving mysteries with the knowledge of ah but the Mohs scale of hardness. Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, yeah, she's, she's solving mysteries with the power of earth science, um which I mean, honestly, like half of Sherlock Holmes's cases are solved because he recognizes some dirt.
Speaker: Yeah, like, you know, I would have paid attention a little bit more in my college geology classes if I knew that they would help me, like, solve ah mysterious goings-on. mean, how many crimes gone unsolved in your life simply because...
Speaker: You weren't equipped. I don't know how many times I've walked into like ah locked room murder scenario. Yeah. And everyone turns to me and they're like, professor, what can you do? and I'm like, was anyone here a politician? Yeah.
Speaker: Well, think would start. Were they involved with the downfall of the Soviet Union? Because that will give me a real good start. Yes, yes that's right. Do you think the murderer is aware of the 1948 book politics among nations.
Speaker: Do we have any, it was there like any indication? No, this is, yeah I'm useless in this scenario. And I wish I wasn't because if I just paid attention in my geology class, there'd be so many murders behind bars right now. i I tried to solve a murder once with ah what I learned from,
Speaker: uh, from my creative nonfiction class. Hmm. Worthless. I mean, that's the thing. If you aren't careful trying to solve a murder without the proper skills, you can accidentally commit a murder on top of it.
Speaker: How many murders do you think Joan Didion, uh, solved? I mean, probably zero, probably zero. How many were caused? Um, Well, listen, yeah, we, we can't say, you know, no, I mean, allegedly you decide.
Speaker: a What is what is the plot of crimson diamond? The plot of, uh, of crimson diamond, the world stands on the precipice of world war one.
Speaker: Nancy maple is an aspiring mineralogist working for Toronto's Royal Canadian museum. Uh, basically in the small Canadian town of Crimson, Ontario, a fisherman pulls a fish from the river and it has an unusually large diamond inside of you. This is a really cool opening. the yeah i mean This is a really cool opening cinematic. You think of what size diamond you would expect to find in a fish.
Speaker: And, and, and I found a couple. Yeah. And they were pretty small. Yeah. It's like that phrase, a diamond in the fish, you know, um, But this one's larger than you It's worth two in the hand.
Speaker: That's what they say. that's what That's exactly what they say. Do you remember at the beginning of Aladdin where to get into the Cave of Wonders, Jafar needed the diamond and the fish?
Speaker: Which one was Will Smith in that? He was the genie. Oh, that's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. No, that movie really slaps. But...
Speaker: so You get that? You remember that, Ben? Do you remember when Will Smith threw away decades of goodwill? I didn't put that together, but you just put it together for me. Yeah. yeah know Like a connects of a joke.
Speaker: Yes, it's like an Xbox connect of a joke. um They found an unusually large diamond inside of a fish. Nancy is on the case and she's hoping that she does well on this assignment, she'll be taken more seriously as a geologist. you know what happens once you go off to a remote estate where strange things are afoot, especially strange things involving real estate deals.
Speaker: It's only a matter of time until someone's murdered. Yeah, and... Or are they?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Did the Phantom of the Opera do it, perhaps? oh don't tease. Don't. Don't make me. ah man.
Speaker: i mean, I don't know if Julia will hear this episode, but if you could release a DLC where Nancy Maple fights the fam of the opera, that would be pretty fantastic.
Speaker: Ha ha ha ha ha!
Speaker: chilling. Yeah, but the the the phantom's horrible laugh and a little bit of the background music playing during that scene will just ah keep me up at night when I maybe that's what I was so scared of.
Speaker: I was scared that the phantom had returned again. i mean, that's the thing. You take your eye off the phantom. He's going to right back in there.
Speaker: He is up in your biz. He's up in your catwalk. He's up in your fly zone. What was that other thing up there? Fly loft. Yes. easy Someone wasn't paying attention that the meticulously read i read one book research.
Speaker: ah No, no, I quit paying attention to that game very early on. paid attention to my loss it was my loss if you don't pay attention why did he pay it all now um and actually didn't i pirated it well i paid for it i gave the people at uh good old games several years ago probably two dollars and 59 cents for it i paid them an exposure oh good but good which is worth more than any amount of money. Anyway. um
Speaker: So ah yeah. One of the things I really enjoy about this game too is the the wonderful amount of a specific regional detail.
Speaker: Yes. To this fictional, like crimson Ontario does not exist, but it is, still heavily informed by like the, the witted, i believe we talked about this with Julia, like by the, the witted, ah like kind of rural areas around here.
Speaker: Um, and the, like, and that's, I don't really know that much about, about uh you know about there who you'd find there uh and i just found it really interesting and also i don't know if i could think of that many games that take place in canada uh to begin with no paperboy uh paperboy takes place in canada that's actually in toronto in the suburbs of toronto oh that's in uh i i didn't know that
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. They don't talk about that. They have like you know, massive paperboy death-related crime wave.
Speaker: it's This is their response to that. No, but do love this about, i mean, we've said time and time again, I've already mentioned Norco, how much we love an adventure game that creates a sense of a real sense of place. And this one definitely does that in a very cozy, charming sort of way, which feels perfect for a Canadian setting, right? Cozy mystery.
Speaker: Yes, for a cozy mystery. Is this, I don't even know what the definition of cozy mystery is. I just know that that's a term. I know that that's a genre of mystery. Yes, if I think my definition of it is, if I'm more stressed from experiencing this mystery, it's not a cozy mystery.
Speaker: If I'm pleasantly distracted by it, it's cozy. Like, I think there are like, maybe, maybe it's just a vibes thing or maybe there are definitive genres. I bet there absolutely are. There's probably a whole subreddit where they have like a rule. Can you believe this podcast? They called this thing a cozy mystery and it doesn't have any of the six requirements for a cozy mystery.
Speaker: Edward G. Tollenfold defined the six pillars of a cozy mystery and Crimson Diamond only meets 3.75 of them.
Speaker: Jesus fucking Christ. yeah You know, those cozy mystery people. The Phantom. Those cozy mystery people. I mean, get real.
Speaker: Come on. What's wrong? What's wrong? What's wrong with we're we're we're We're getting mad at a character I made up. I know, but you did you it was so evocative and so true to life.
Speaker: I'm furious at them now. You're scared.
Speaker: scared I'm a little scared. That's not a cozy mystery because the whole time I think the ding dang phantoms go to drop a sandbag on my head. and he did once. Or change the lighting gel to an unflattering color.
Speaker: Well, you'd be surprised at what the lighting gels. I love it and Under a red light, I look terrible. I love it when it a game has kind of like stuck in our craw enough that it like sticks around for a couple extra episodes.
Speaker: Yes. I think Return of the Phantom is that game. i like that It is such... a bizarre how did that exist yeah are we sure first of all are we sure it existed no it was a fever dream yes yes or was it
Speaker: that's what i love about is at least every time you score phantom points in that game it gives you the laugh and the jingle ah There are, did we even talk about it? The we nos either not score.
Speaker: We did not Ben, that there is, but it doesn't like score chime you. Yeah. So how do I know? How do I feel rewarded? Every game should have the Freddy Farkas score.
Speaker: that is a good one to bring it back. crimson diamond crimson diamond has a nice chime when you fill something in your notebook yes notebook is something like a device i would like to talk about when i said earlier like when we were discussing how ah Crimson Diamond has you know all of these years of ah adventure game design principles in the the coat of you know a 1990 EGA mystery game, the notebook is a huge part of it.
Speaker: Now, of course, the the notebook ah existed. in earlier Laura Bose, but this, the notebook Crimson Diamond is just chock full of like detailed and helpful information.
Speaker: and And I think that's also like kind of part of Like the reason why you wouldn't find a device like that in an earlier game is there is kind of an expectation that you are keeping a notepad.
Speaker: Yes. And also the idea that they don't want you to have a particularly easy time solving the game. Right. So, and and I mean, the notebook in this game,
Speaker: doesn't make it easy but it keeps you from ever feeling like you're totally lost on what you should be doing right now which strikes a really nice balance it helps give you some direction as to like it's like you look at it and you're like what am i supposed to be doing and there's like something outstanding on it And you go, okay, well, i have to I have to keep talking to this person or I have to keep walking around this room and examining items this room.
Speaker: i have to use the jeweler's loop to examine a couple interesting minerals in this area. It helps save you from that Laura Bow problem of, I guess it's time to walk into all the rooms again.
Speaker: to see if anything's changed or if anybody's going to have a conversation. There's less of that. What do I want to do to trigger, uh, the time passing.
Speaker: So all of the characters move into a different place. Yes. that You don't run into that in the same way. i mean, still, it runs on some mechanics similar to that, but you never feel completely confused.
Speaker: like just cast adrift uh thanks to the notebook it's a again ah we love a good notebook interface here at here at quest quest you know love it's one of the things i really enjoyed about return to monkey island is you know it incorporating a nice you know notebook checklist style system i think anytime that's present in the game Right away, i love it And this one also does a good job sort of recapping what's come before.
Speaker: so you can kind of use it if you're like a little confused on some of the details. It has enough information in it that it really keeps you locked into the plot as well. Yeah, the the the game does a really good job kind of keeping you on task and also, like, informed of it's like, who's that? Oh, yeah, no, no, no, no. you it It helps you, ah like, remember where you're at and what you're doing very well. ah I'll also note, and this was something, again, that really struck me when I was revisiting it for the podcast, is that the game like,
Speaker: very like ah it is very interested in cluing you along. Like, Nancy will frequently say, like, hmm, I think I should probably go in this room and, like, check that out. Like, she'll give you ah like, constant clear nudges to where, like... And again, you know, like what you were saying, Jess. Like, I don't think...
Speaker: Because when I played it, and I talked about this when we had Julian, like, there was some stuff I missed. I didn't get the absolute, like, perfect ending. I got it pretty good. I didn't either.
Speaker: But, like... um like You know, probably and ah like in the 80s and ninety s people would be like, well, this is just giving the game away. Why would you do that? Why would characters just constantly do that? And I think the the game does a really good job of keeping you on task and saying like, Oh, maybe there might be something interesting over here without explicitly like holding your hand or anything like that. It just like kind of, it, it, it breadcrumbs you sometimes almost literally ah it nudges you.
Speaker: it like, because especially because you're in, you know, like in the, the other lore, like in those, those two Laura bow games, You're in a fairly large set of screens.
Speaker: um and ah And like what you said, Jess, it's like, you know, it's a real fucking drag to be like, all right, like, well, I don't know what to do. So I'm just going to enter every single room and just see like, oh, maybe there's a character in there that says something.
Speaker: Maybe a drawer is open that wasn't before, and that's what pulls me forward. Yeah. Now, it manages to avoid that. And still, like you said, I finished with a less than perfect score, and there were definitely parts of the mystery I didn't see and elements of the story that I didn't experience on my first time through.
Speaker: I think it does nice job. The system is set up to help you finish the game without a whole lot of hand-holding. But I think it also encourages you from there, you know, if you, you know, didn't get everything, it certainly gives you a good reason to go back and replay it to find out what you missed. um And i I completely messed up the ending when I played it. We won't talk about what the ending is, but I really dropped the ball on this game. This is one of those games that I played wrong. You you got the the ending where everyone dies.
Speaker: I got the ending where people... That's just a death screen, Jess. um Yeah. therere Jess, how far did you get in the game? I think you just hit a death screen. Yeah, mean, i got, like, to the first, like, 45 minutes.
Speaker: Jess, the game's longer than 45 minutes. I think you just hit a death screen and thought it was the end of the game. No, I'm not counting the intro. Yeah, so like there there was more after that. Oh.
Speaker: But it said, like, she was dead. Like, how can she investigate? She's not a ghost detective. She's not a phantom.
Speaker: The gooch. Oh. But, yeah.
Speaker: The... ah um but ah but but yeah the um Like it is the, the, the, the game is very interested in, in you finishing it.
Speaker: And also it has a lot of game in it. And so it's like, you can miss stuff, but also I didn't feel particularly, i wasn't on.
Speaker: Sometimes when you play a game and you don't 100%
Speaker: uh and you get like the not the best ending like sometimes that just kind of pisses me off right yeah no i know what you mean yeah i mean you feel like i tried really hard and i got cheated and at the end of this i was like oh great there's more stuff yeah i totally missed this whole plot thread through my own lack of investigation When I go back and replay this someday, I'll have to be sure to dig deeper on that. Yeah. It's just like, oh, oh, awesome.
Speaker: Like, yeah, I can't wait to, you know, to to investigate that because it's also it's like the reward is it's like, oh, good. I get to have more time in this like fun world and with these fun characters that I like.
Speaker: Let's talk about these characters. All right. Let's run let's run through them. Who who who we got? who's my guys uh like the nancy maple h she's the protagonist we have kimmy who is a wonderful character ben what is kimmy doing here at the crimson lodge kimmy is looking for cormorants what's a cormorant i don't know what is a cormorant with you Thank you, Ben. Yeah.
Speaker: It's a bird. Oh. She's bird watching. She's there to watch birds, supposedly. So she says, nick or is she?
Speaker: no, it didn't hit. Next is Evan. He's the owner of this show. large lodge large lodge yeah um and uh evan ah has uh ah beautiful younger girlfriend named uh margo he has also there is his ah sister he has a contentious relationship with nessa
Speaker: and she has her eye on the lodge yes and uh of course she's there as as one always comes uh with her lawyer corvus always a good sign for someone in this sort of mystery if they come with their lawyer ah then you have another mineralogist geologist another guy that knows rocks Rockman.
Speaker: Rockman, as he's called the Japanese version game. Oh, the Japanese version of this game. He's called Rockman. And ah then you have Evan's friend, ah Nathan, who's ah like an indigenous to the area.
Speaker: ah You have ah the the lodge caretaker, Jack. His name is Caretaker Jack. That would be a fun name. Caretaker Jack. I'm Caretaker Jack. have a handsome Mountie?
Speaker: Yeah, we do have a handsome Mountie. And yes, he is blonde. Can't do wrong by him. He he he always... ah but What's that that Deadly Do-Right says?
Speaker: he always gets his man? i always get my man? that what he says? Is it? and very long time since I've seen The Adventures of Dudley Do-Rey. Let's just drop in.
Speaker: During Brendan Fraser. Oh, man. They should do a cartoon version of that. Yeah. and It'd be ridiculous. You can't make a cartoon of a man as dynamic is Brendan Fraser. Fraser, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, and Cino Man.
Speaker: Oh. Remember when they did that? they They did that, and George of the Jungle. Mm-hmm. terrific.
Speaker: I seem to recall George of the Jungle was better. I haven't seen either one. I was, ah I was, so I think I was 10. So was the intended, in the intended audience.
Speaker: I was 10 and had a father that owned all those cartoons because he was, mean, he's still around. He's older gentleman that loved Rocky and Bullwinkle when it was on the air.
Speaker: My father-in-law is a massive Rocky and Bullwinkle fan. And occasionally when I call him, he'll pick up the phone doing a Bullwinkle voice. And you what?
Speaker: I love it. In the, in the sixties in the same way that like, you know, now they say that every, every man has a, ah can do a Kermit voice in the sixties. It was every man could do a bullwinkle voice.
Speaker: Wow. yeah Can I hear your Kermit voice?
Speaker: hold on hold on i gotta okay yeah no yeah yeah no he's taking a sip of water he's putting on like a little green like collar of some sort uh yeah i don't know why you had that nearby go ahead please yeah
Speaker: hello i was trying to do a bullwinkle i was trying to zag yeah but i realized that i didn't have bullwinkle in me he talks he talks like this it's kind of you know it is actually kind of similar to kermit isn't it yeah no isn't bullwinkle like no i can't get it no because it's it's very far it's yeah far back in the throat and then it comes up through the nose let's say hi cole i'm bullwinkle the moose is that
Speaker: says
Speaker: Hey-ho! Hi-ho! Bowwinkle the Moose here in Frostbite Falls. We have a great show for you tonight.
Speaker: Richard Linkletter's here. Richard Linkletter.
Speaker: Yeah, great episode of The Muppet Show. Um, but, uh... is it does your father-in-law is he also a mad magazine guy yes yeah yes i think i think of course i mean yeah we should hear we should have a we should have a dad date we should have a old man date with uh my dad and your father-in-law think they'd love i mean ah but they they would either love each other or despise each other now what instrument does your dad play again trumpet my father-in-law plays bass
Speaker: Yeah. So they're ready to go. That's a full two piece set. Anyway. Uh, what were we talking about? Crimson diamond. We were, we were talking about crimson diamond.
Speaker: Uh, Fun cast characters. I mean, very much again, and your Agatha Christie tradition, in your Laura Bow tradition, which is clearly informed by the same cast source material, right? You've got all of these interesting characters holed up in a remote location when someone turns up murdered by arsenic.
Speaker: Now, Jess, was was it on the podcast or was it ah like on this on ah ah the stream that you said that an opera theater would be a great place for a lo Laura Bowe-type mystery?
Speaker: I believe that was in the podcast. Now, stand by that. That would be such a kick-ass Laura Bowe 3. Or Maple 2. Yeah. Nancy Maple too.
Speaker: I believe that there is going to be that she's working on a mini, a mini. Yes. I believe so. In AGI or a AGI style. I have not.
Speaker: I have not been tracking it closely because I want to be delighted when it arrives. Like I don't. Yeah. I mean, she developed this game, large chunks of it. She did on stream and I carefully avoided spending too much time in there while she was working on it because I wanted to be as unspoiled as possible. I, uh, there was a, and again, i think ah we talked about this in the, I played a little bit of the demo.
Speaker: when it came out however many years ago before before the game released and i played like five minutes of the demo and was just like i know i'm gonna love this so i need to put this away like the the the demo has this has proven itself to me already and so i don't want to i don't want to see any more i've seen enough which is a pretty ringing endorsement, right? Like you don't even make it all the way through the demo before realizing it's like, I want to save this as a treat.
Speaker: Yeah. And, and then, yeah, i stayed away from her, her art, art streams and ah all that though. I have watched some of her yeah EGA game playing streams, which we did talk about extensively on her podcast. Some of those games sounded cool as hell. Um, yeah,
Speaker: But ah yeah, like there's this this rich and very interesting ah ah cast of characters who all have various reasons ah to keep things secret.
Speaker: um and all are off doing mysterious and secret things. I don't trust it anyone that watches birds. No, that seems very suspicious. And of course, all of this drama is heightened by the fact that maybe...
Speaker: because they're trapped bridge is out out the bridge is out so they can't leave and because they're now diamonds and possibly massive amounts of wealth at play it gives everyone a reason for skullduggery uh yeah there's a a big money uh motivation there's a real estate motivation There's the question of whether the diamonds were even real in the first place. If this is like something that was planted or actually if they're diamonds in crimson.
Speaker: Yeah. Like, it's like, do is, is this something that we want? uh to like there there's a lot of kind of nested little mysteries and that's actually one of the other things i enjoy about the game is that and and again this was this was uh true of the the lore bow games but like these are i feel a little more delineated uh the there there's a couple there's a couple different mysteries yeah yeah um yeah um
Speaker: this isn't ah This doesn't have the advancing timer like ah the Loribo games, but instead has chapters, which those had, like those had or at least Amun-Ra had acts, but this, the the chapters, this has more chapters and it kind of Like the pacing on them is really good. and And you progress through it by hitting certain gates of the mystery itself. Like once you've solved the thing in front of you, that's how you move forward. It's not just like I saw enough conversations that eventually the game pushed me forward into the next phase of what's happening.
Speaker: And you know, something i love about this, that... is oftentimes missing from point and click mysteries. It's kind of missing from Laura Bow in a lot of cases is we actually get to see Nancy doing a little bit of sort of criminology detective style work. Like I love the two bits of the game where first you have to figure out a way because you find some footprints and you need to ID them.
Speaker: So Nancy needs a way to figure out basically what size shoe everyone in the lodge is wearing. Some people are like, oh, this is fun. Here's my foot. Yeah, feel free to to measure it.
Speaker: And then other people, you have to come up with clever ways to either do them a favor or trick them into giving you this. And then that same cycle repeats later in the game with getting everyone's fingerprints. And I loved these bits. The idea that you've got Those very fun. Yeah.
Speaker: You've got like seven people you need to grab a fingerprint from. And every one of them is like its own little mini puzzle. Some people will give it up willingly, but more often than not, there's some sort of little adventure game mini puzzle that's going to be necessary to get that person's footprint or to get that person's fingerprint. And I love that. I feel like those were the moments where I both felt a little bit more like a detective, but also like kind a clever adventure game protagonist at the same time. It's like, you know, that was, ah thought, really rewarding from a gameplay standpoint. Because we've said before, sometimes a mystery game, it's easy to feel like, well, i'm solving adventure game puzzles. And then the game is presenting the mystery back at me.
Speaker: And this one, I at least felt a little bit more like I was involved in that puzzle solving process. You don't feel like you're a passenger on a linear story.
Speaker: You feel like an active participant. Is that what you're saying? Absolutely. Because, I mean, it's very possible to play big chunks of... the Colonel's bequest of just like, I walked into a room and overheard part of a conversation that moved forward without Laura Bode doing a whole lot of anything. Like the path to get to the end of that game with minimal investigation taking place is one where Laura Bode can get to the end of Colonel's bequest and have felt like just a passive observer of everything that's happening around her.
Speaker: And that's not the case, I feel like, with Nancy Maple. She is she is on the case. She's a very, like, yeah, she's very inquisitive and bright and is able to harness her rock knowledge. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It is so funny to me, and I really hope...
Speaker: it is it is it is so funny to be and i really hope that any uh like you know if if if we are so lucky to to get like not only beyond this like smaller uh story that she's working on but if if we do get a full length other one i hope for some reason uh we rock details and minerals and and that stuff all has to tie in even if it's in an opera lake house.
Speaker: It's just like, oh yeah, well the sandbags. It's a rock opera. Could be a rock opera. i was Like the sandbags have this type of sand, but
Speaker: you know, Jess, it wasn't a ah rock opera. What? I didn't like that. i like It was a rock opera.
Speaker: yeah I blew it. I blew it. I'm done. Ben, there's someone behind you.
Speaker: The last best Babylon 5 podcast. Now, i so let's ah let me let me return ah to to my my notes here.
Speaker: i you one of ah One of the things we haven't talked about at all, actually, and one of the key things One of the most distinguishing things in in this in this game beyond its 16 color palette that we haven't talked about is its text parser.
Speaker: Fantastic. Hasn't come up. I'm actually shocked. Fantastic text parser. First of all, we love a text parser here at QuestQuest. It's a world of limitless possibilities. You're more a text parserman.
Speaker: That's true. I do love a text parser. And you this is what you hated most about this game. Yeah, I was furious. Furious the whole time. We edited it out, all the parts of our interview where I was screaming.
Speaker: Yes. No. Just like, why'd you do this, Juliet? No, why'd you do this? You got really hostile for a bit. It's called point clicks. Yeah, well, thats actually, and I was like, they aren't, Ben. That's like like a sub... Go point, Clicks.
Speaker: I pointed at the icon and clicked, but after that, it was all tagging. Anyway, no, it has a wonderful parser. has a really, really good... Even as a text parser skeptic, yeah this is a shockingly... Like, for a... Like, a indie dev...
Speaker: like a largely like solo designed game. ah The text parser is so flexible and understanding.
Speaker: um And that is there. There weren't that many times when I was playing it where I really felt like I was fighting the parser.
Speaker: And that's what, like, what bumps me from, like, a lot of text parsers. And I'll admit, most, like, you know, IF, obviously, but, like, i mean, i don't know. Are there a lot of other... I guess ah there there are a couple ah other recent text parser adventures, and we'll we'll have to cover them.
Speaker: But... i but um You know, the big stumbling block and why I'm like generally like a text parser skeptic is all of those negative experiences from ah ah from playing like, you know, those early like Sierra games.
Speaker: like yeah uh snail track is as yeah sex parser i it has the auto complete have you played no track is it no haven't is it the auto complete text parser is that it has like a a hint like i'm i'm looking at screenshots uh we should do there there's a bunch of them they're all very cheap so maybe we should check like it it gives a text suggestions Ah, yes, there you which I think is a brilliant workaround for this. But Crimson Diamond is the text parser is robust enough.
Speaker: It's intuitive enough that I never felt like i was fine against it either. it I mean, it's just it's so well designed that you don't have to think about it. It feels frictionless, which is kind of the best thing you can say I feel about any interface in the game. Right. The fact that we didn't comment on to this point.
Speaker: is a testament to how good of a job it's doing. Yeah. Like it, it really is like, it's impressive and playing this helped me actually kind of get why, why someone would prefer a text parser because when you type something in and it gets it and you don't expect that,
Speaker: It's kind of like a magic trick. That really is what's wonderful about text parser for me is this idea that, you know, even old bad text parser games like King's Quest 1 and 2,
Speaker: you're going to have misses more often than you have hits, but there's something wonderful when it gets what you're trying to say, you know, you mean and response to you in an unexpected way. And this, you know, has a lot of hits. There are very few cases where i got the, you know, i don't know what that word means kind of responses.
Speaker: Um, no, it's a fantastic piece of work, as you said, especially for a for a small indie game. The fact that it has a text parser that at least from the parts of it that you can observe from the outside seems far better than the one that Sierra ever managed to implement. I feel like far more robust than those. Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know if you looked at the code, if, you know, it's just really clever at presenting itself that way. But, i mean, certainly to the player, I felt like it got me more often than it did.
Speaker: It really gets me. Yeah, it gets you? It gets me. ah god Not everybody gets me. i Sometimes ask people just, like, meet me and, like, they judge me, you know like, at a surface level. Like, they think they they know me. They think know my style. Right.
Speaker: But, you know, this game got me.
Speaker: um one final thing i wanted to to touch on in the game uh uh that i i appreciated and i realized that we we didn't kind of we didn't hit a ah spoiler section should we hit the spoilers out or do you feel like we need to don't feel like I've kind of run through all of my notes. I mean, I guess the big spoiler is it's weird that unlike Laura Bowe one or two, that Nancy's the murderer.
Speaker: Like you don't know this whole time that you're playing as a psychopath and like their clues, like the one scene where she like wakes up in the morning she's covered in blood. Like looking back, I guess you could have pieced together. Maybe she was the murderer.
Speaker: But, I mean, it was a twist that shocked me at the end. Especially, like, it really doesn't seem like that kind of game. No, it really doesn't. It really doesn't. Like, just like the part where, like, she's drawn the pentagram of blood on the wall of her room. Takes a hard turn.
Speaker: Or was that paint? It was paint. Okay, because read it as blood. No, it was absolutely pain. That phantom.
Speaker: Now, that i but what that's obviously a joke. Nancy's not the murderer, or is she?
Speaker: Now, i the one last thing I want to talk about, ah like running through my my notes here, is That it actually kind of struck kind of the the the gentle, playful humor that I associated with Sierra games of that vintage.
Speaker: Yes. like Not jokey. No, just like kind of... ah kind of very friendly and occasionally it turns like a little like corny.
Speaker: The one scene in particular that I was thinking about ah is like there's there's a scene where you want to distract uh himi uh from looking at the cormorants and so you blow a like a duck whistle and then himi runs around looking for a duck like she's interested in being a duck as well and it plays like kind of light mischievous music yes perfect and uh like
Speaker: I love that stuff. I love. lighta You a i called it corny. And like, I think corny parentheses complimentary is where you get a little bit this. And i love it because a lot of those CR games were a little corny in that way. And I feel like it captures that in a super charming, like you're going to be doing a lot of light chuckling through this game. Yeah.
Speaker: In a way that And not as, it like, ah ah an offense to the game. It's like, no, it's just very... it's it's It's a very pleasant hang. Yeah, it's going charm your pants off.
Speaker: um I'm not wearing pants right now. Yeah. Yeah, see? It gets you. Now... yeah the Because, yeah, like, that was, I think, especially if you are making a game where you're revisiting...
Speaker: ah an old like old Sierra aesthetics and form not necessarily the gameplay um i you know I there might be a temptation to be a little more arch with it right and a little more snarky or a little more like kind of like you know, trying to be a little smarter.
Speaker: little meta-humory about it. Yeah. Like, you know trying to be like, yeah, well, you know, it's it's ah it's it's a whole different century now when we're making this game.
Speaker: um And the game never does that. The game never gave me that sense. It always, like, felt like a very wholehearted...
Speaker: ah like expression of love towards this type of game and the changes that were made weren't
Speaker: those of a like you know being like yeah like that old game's junk you know it was just it's like here's how design has evolved know in in the subsequent decades and this is our understanding of what makes an adventure game uh you know and and what people are looking for in an adventure game like we were talking about how like you know maybe ah like the level of cluing in the way that the notebook works might not have been as welcomed uh at that time maybe it would have been what do i know um but uh
Speaker: Like, you know, there's never a moment where the the game, like, i you know, I feel it like trying to, to to you know, say that it's it's better than its source material, you know? It's not afraid to wink at the player, but it's not at the expense of the games that inspired it.
Speaker: You know, i mean, there... As someone who's made a game myself that gets called like a love letter to old Sierra games in a way, I kind of hate that phrase in general. i feel like it's overused. I mean, in your game, I want to be clear, that's hate mail.
Speaker: yeah I mean, but it is nothing but winking at the audience to say, wasn't this part of these old games terrible in StairQuest? You know, that's what we're doing. And I feel like that arch meta comedy has its place. And i want to be clear, Jess, when I was saying all of that, I was, like, talking about how much I dislike StairQuest.
Speaker: Oh, no, I assume that. Yeah, you were yeah, yeah. Good, good. I'm glad you picked that up. yeah Yeah, no, absolutely. But I'm glad this game doesn't choose to engage in much of that. Like, I feel like I made a game that is nothing but that, and I'm a little exhausted by that humor myself. like There's nothing more tired than like, oh, ho ho aren't these Roberta Williams games kind of bad and punishing?
Speaker: um that save that for your blog old man murray yeah old man here's yeah this game gets that it's like hey you know ah instead of being arch and kind snarky about it, maybe you just want to play another one of these.
Speaker: Yeah, because you love them. This was one of my, yeah, we're still tying out this shit because we love it. And like one of my my notes here, ah like that that I had was it's like,
Speaker: The game feels like how you might remember yeah games from then. Which is nice. And not how they were. Yes. Which is the best combo. I think when you can pull that off, a game that feels like the version of these games you remember to me is the best of both worlds. You get that homage that's there immediately when you see a screenshot of it. If you know Colonel's Bequest, you probably immediately say, this game looks a lot like Colonel's Bequest. And you know it feels like this at some level is inspired by that.
Speaker: But then using as an excuse, not just to do the exact same thing or not to satirize what came before. But instead, actually, you know, see how you can revisit that through the lens of the 2020s.
Speaker: That's a I think that that's the charm here. As you said, the reason that we're talking about adventure games on a podcast and we the thousands of people who listen this episode are listening to this episode.
Speaker: Thousands of real people. The thousands of real human beings who are listening to this podcast that I currently host. Ben, did you and host podcasts before this?
Speaker: No. You know, I never talk about it on the stream. We'll just say the podcast. But ah I used to host, um I was one of the four hosts of a podcast called My Brother, My Brother, My Neighbor, and Me, um where, you know, i co-hosted along with my fellow West Virginians, um the McElroy brothers. oh yeah And and a lot of those early episodes, ah they aren't available online anymore. You know, we we did lots of wacky videos.
Speaker: Yeah, no, they were really problematic. Like, there was lots of lots of topics that we weren't the people to be tackling. And it was very clear from, like, you know, those episodes. you know, they retooled it.
Speaker: And I don't know what happened to those guys because I moved a couple of towns away and have never spoken to them again. It was weird being the only non-McElroy on it, but I thought that was, like, the spice in the in the in the gumbo. Now, uh...
Speaker: You know, talking about this, I've just started to think, like, do you think it's possible? Mm-hmm. I started, here's a thought exercise that I was trying to do by my lonesome, and now I'll extend to you and further on to our audience, which is, do you think that you could make a non-arch, non-ironic,
Speaker: game like this that draws heavy inspiration from Hugo's House of Horrors.
Speaker: A loving tribute to Hugo's House of Horrors. Like where you play and you're like, wow, this gets everything that I love about Hugo's House of Horrors. I love all four puzzles it recreated. um Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, i'm I'm doing it in my mind and I'm just kind of like, I don't think there would be a way for me to possibly make a game that is inspired by Hugo's House of Horrors without like essentially making fun of it.
Speaker: I think it's impossible. It's what I'm saying. I think it would just have to be bananas, disconnected elements. And let me tell you how you do this. First of all, Ben, I've got the answer to you, how you make this a million dollar idea.
Speaker: Two letters. RV. Now reverse them. VR. yeah
Speaker: Hugo's House of Horrors. VR. Um, my, my other one is, is like, would I be able to make, uh, a, like ah a tribute game to return of the Phantom?
Speaker: Now, Ben, do these have to be two separate projects? Hugo goes to the Paris opera. Yes. And know who's there?
Speaker: ah ah Jim Walston. No, Eric, a.k.a. the family, the opera. Yes. ah A.k.a.
Speaker: the OG. Opera ghost. All right. OK, we're done. Opera ghost. That is so so, so stupid. Like the fact that all the letters are signed OG short for opera ghost yeah is so stupid. Yeah.
Speaker: Why would he sign the Phantom? It's a really fascinating, dumb game. I can't stop thinking about it. Can we do another episode about Return of the Phantom? Yeah, next week after, well, no way. Well, next week's booked. Yeah, yeah next week's booked.
Speaker: Well, we'll find time. Do we need to start announcing our next two episodes at the end of every every episode? ah All right. Well, this has been Quest Quest, the adventure game podcast. ah Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker: Leave great review. Post. Let everybody know that's real human with blood in their veins. and this Tell if every listener tells 10 friends to listen to our podcast.
Speaker: every listener tells 10 clods, and I'm not referring to CLODs, but clod, the AI harvesting, whatever fucking thing.
Speaker: hi you know, to, to download our podcast a hundred times in one day out of the same location. I'll just look at and throw up my hands and go like, yeah, i guess I'll never have accurate podcast statistics again.
Speaker: We know currently somewhere between, been editing the episode for one listen and possibly as many as 10,000 listeners per episode, but we have no idea where that number is. It's between one and 10,000.
Speaker: It's not that many. deal it's But anyway, but yeah, please rate and review. You're not counting all the people who are listening to it together, like listening parties and stuff. That's one download. Yeah, yeah, for sure. there i And I know. Well, and I also know that there are there are bars that every Tuesday, at or or rather very late on Monday into Tuesday, they have like a phone call.
Speaker: hooked up to like the stereo system at the bar and then when midnight central strikes they put the podcast on and everybody like hush yes yes yes yes i and for us to listen Listen to quest quest. I can't wait to hear what they talk about this week. And like, I mean, we know they're like little betting pools. Like who mentioned Norco first. Yeah. And, you know, and, but ah like on our podcast analytics thing, that just counts as one download. That's one. Listen, we know that bar 70 people in that bar across the world are doing this.
Speaker: Yes. So yeah. cause We see photos yeah in a bar or a community center. You know, send us an email. A senior citizen center. Oh, yeah. A senior citizen community. If you're like in the common room there at the senior center and you've got your your evening pudding and you're just sitting down with Quest Quest, the adventure game podcast.
Speaker: And it's you and several of your geriatric friends. You know, pull out your jitter bugs and download it. So that we get those views.
Speaker: Anyway, you can send us an email at questquestpodcast at gmail.com. And be sure to join us in one week's time. Seven days from today. Because something really important, something ah of utmost importance is going to be discussed.
Speaker: On the podcast? On the podcast. Quest Quest, the adventure game podcast. QuestQuestPodcast at gmail.com. With Biddy and the Gooch. ah And that is, we will discuss next week, Space Quest 4. The Jess.
Speaker: Yes. As you recall, when we discussed Space Quest five here we talked about how the plot of Space Quest V has a lot to, like, it ties into Roger being a janitor.
Speaker: Is there very, does Roger being a janitor really factor into Space Quest
Speaker: Well, I mean, he scoops up that jar of slime down the sewer. And, you know, I guess he scoops up his own innards after he gets shot over and over again at the skaterama. Yeah, what a pant load.
