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Ep 20 - Jim Murphy & Nick Fox | I Need To Sell More Tires
217 Plays25 days ago
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In today's episode, Mike Allen is joined by Jim Murphy and Nick Fox. Nick played college soccer and then replaced Jim at Elite Worldwide. What a shift, right? They also discuss why joining a peer group like Pro Service is a game-changer for many shop owners.
00:00 20 Group Insights with Jim & Nick
06:16 Mentoring Future Successors
07:50 Choosing Nick Fox for Coaching
12:03 Shop Owner Confessions and Mistakes
13:50 "Tire Sales Boost Business Value"
19:37 Navigating Business Succession Planning
23:39 Unique Tax Strategies for Family Businesses
24:38 Maximizing Business Exit Value
29:47 "Sherry's Wild Water Challenge"
32:37 Training Resource Inclusivity
36:43 Evaluating Coaching Effectiveness
38:31 Member Referral Approval Process
40:59 Business Transition Strategies for Aging Owners
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Background
00:00:00
Speaker
So on today's episode, I've got Jim Murphy, my longtime 20 group facilitator and coach. Actually, he's been my family's 20 group facilitator and coach longer than I've been in the business.
00:00:13
Speaker
So he's got certainly some stories about me when I was younger. And thankfully, I don't think he shares too many of them on this episode, but maybe we'll have him back. I've also got Nick Fox, who is...
00:00:27
Speaker
ah formerly a multi-store owner of Point S Tires, and he is sold that group to a consolidator. And now he is working alongside Jim in the group process facilitation with Elite Worldwide and Pro Service.
Understanding 20-Groups Benefits
00:00:43
Speaker
um It's just good to get to know Nick a little bit better and also share a little bit of what it's like to have 20-group with ah facilitators as strong as these two guys.
00:00:54
Speaker
If you've ever thought about getting into a 20 group process and wondered who your group leader would be, this is a great way to learn more about that.
00:01:04
Speaker
The following program features a bunch of doofuses talking about the automotive aftermarket. The stuff we, or our guests may say, do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of our peers, our sponsors, or any other associations we may have.
00:01:18
Speaker
There may be some spicy language in this show, so if you get your feelings hurt easily, you should probably just move along. So without further ado, it's time for Confessions of a Shop Owner with your host, Mike Gallum.
00:01:36
Speaker
Okay, so here we are yet again.
00:01:46
Speaker
And I've got some really interesting guests for this one. first Jim Murphy, who's known me for the entirety of my adult life and has witnessed the shenanigans and, uh, the miracle that is the fact that I made it to, uh, middle life.
00:02:03
Speaker
fact why fact that You still have all your brain cells intact. Yeah. Well, I mean, i still have a sufficient volume to function from day to day. i'm not sure that have them all. Um, and also Nick Fox. Yes. Yeah.
Nick Fox's Tire Industry Journey
00:02:16
Speaker
And Nick, you are now full-time on with Elite, working specifically in the pro service world, is that right? That's correct. Prior to that, your family had a group of Point S tires, is that right? Yep, we had four locations. yeah And where where were they?
00:02:32
Speaker
ah In Montana, two in Helena and two in Great Falls. Okay, all right. And single generation, multiple generations? I was second generation. Okay. Um, tell me a little bit about your, cause just cause I don't know you well yet. Yeah. I'm curious. Tell me a little bit about your background and your history.
00:02:48
Speaker
My background in history is much like any other tire kid. You start early in the business. Uh, my first paying job was at 12 years old. I did get fired briefly because I went to Taco Bell too many times.
00:03:00
Speaker
However, I begged for forgiveness and was hired back and I started at the bottom and Eventually became a tire tech and then moved to an apprentice mechanic. And then I left for college and it played soccer and just came back to the automotive industry because I loved it and became a service advisor, got promoted to store manager, and then had the opportunity to buy into our family business.
00:03:25
Speaker
At that time, we had two locations and helped grow it to four locations and doubled the sales with the help of Jim Murphy. And the tire warehouse as well. Oh, and the tire warehouse, yep. So I started a wholesale business and and all that. Got elected to the Point S um no ah USA Board of Directors.
00:03:45
Speaker
And, yeah, so we were rocking and rolling, having a good time. That's pretty stratospheric growth there. what was the time frame when you went from two to four plus a distribution center?
00:03:56
Speaker
ah It was like three years that we did that. Wow. Yeah. That's awesome. It was a lot of fun. So I, I struggle with, uh, with growth and it's because I, I have always just kind of managed by the seat of my pants and never had process and procedure.
00:04:14
Speaker
Well, neither did I until I met Jim and he pushed me, right? You can do this. You have to figure it out.
Mentoring and Leadership Transition
00:04:20
Speaker
And it fell into place. Well, Jim pushed my dad for that for years. And dad is incredibly resilient and not doing the shit he doesn't want to do. And now he's been pushing me to do that for years. And I think that I'm going to hire it out and have somebody else do it. And I'll edit and approve or deny, I think.
00:04:37
Speaker
See, there you go. It's it's below your pay grade. so I have had multiple conversations about that part of your class yesterday. And I may pull up my notes from your class yesterday and go over a few of them because um For those who are listening, Jim did an hour. Was it an hour?
00:04:52
Speaker
Hour and a half. An hour and a half yesterday. It felt like only an hour, right, on time management and procrastination and finding focus and maintaining it. And it was really good stuff. I would say, as per usual, you come so prepared with so much information.
00:05:11
Speaker
You know research put into it. It's such high quality content. I tell people all over the country that you should be in elite and you should be a part of pro service for any number of reasons, but it's worth the cost of entry just to get your state of the industry update once a year.
00:05:28
Speaker
That's... It's appointment viewing, man. It's amazing what you what what you put into that. and See, Sherry wonders what I do in the office, so let her know.
00:05:38
Speaker
um So tell me about you guys working together and what's going on there. Yep. So... Over the last couple of years, you know I'm getting along in years, and so long in the tooth, so to speak.
00:05:51
Speaker
And you know at some point in time, i know that I'm going to need to transition and not be in this position of coaching and mentoring on a full-time basis. right i mean there was It's not that i haven't that I've been deprived in life. I've been beenda all 50 states, I've been to all 63 national parks, I've been, you know, and and we're going get our seventh continent this winter. so So from that standpoint, you know, I don't feel like I've been deprived on my ability to achieve my goals. so
00:06:22
Speaker
and but But I need to be prudent as well in looking at eventually having people that I can mentor that can not necessarily take my place. I mean, that's the eventual goal.
00:06:34
Speaker
But I think developing um good successors within the organization is critical, you know, because I i never know when I'm going to get carved off the planet. um And I think that I have a very strong responsibility to to transfer knowledge.
00:06:50
Speaker
And so so from that standpoint, having both Dan and then Nick um be a part of all of that, I felt were really good candidates. So, you know, the fact that I had coached Nick and his dad for 12 years, twelve years yeah um you know, and so what I ended up doing is that Nick and his dad had made a decision to look at selling their businesses to the Gills organization. So Eric Gill, I've coached, I think I started at coaching Eric when he was at six stores, five or six stores a number of years ago. And
00:07:24
Speaker
And so he's at 134 stores now. And so so that was part of the process last year is that he acquired the Fox's organization.
00:07:35
Speaker
um It worked to be a really good synergy. And Nick went to work for the Gills organization as a district manager. so So I kept thinking about, you know, I need to find somebody that's, you you know, that around that 40 years old, because that's when I started. So it's been, you know, it's been over 25 years that I've been coaching.
00:07:53
Speaker
So I needed to find that that right person that um had a lot of the skill sets that I was looking for, really understood the culture of being involved the groups that I facilitate, um and and really, at the end of the day, had the desire, right? I mean, that's that's more than anything else is finding somebody with the desire.
00:08:13
Speaker
So, you know, it was over the summer. um They had sold their stores in April, I think it was. yeah And so so, you know, it's amazing how clairvoyant you can become when you've a glass of wine in your hand and you're sitting here talking with your wife. so So at that point in time, I i said, you know, I turned to Sherry and I said, you know, I keep thinking and thinking and thinking. Who, you know, who is going to have the right personality and potential desire? And so I said, I think Nick Fox and Sherry say really?
00:08:41
Speaker
And she said, you know, that that is kind of a brilliant idea. so So I reached out to Nick and I said, hey, I'm just broaching the subject. I have, um you know, if it doesn't go anywhere, I'm perfectly fine. But, you know, i just want to broach the subject and and and let you know that um I have an interest in having you become me.
00:09:04
Speaker
And Nick was like, I don't remember what your response was, but I couldn't see your face, but I think that he was rather shocked that I would even approach him. I was. It was big shoes to fill, right? Yeah, no joke, man. Yeah.
00:09:17
Speaker
So, but I i thought if i if I could spend a lot of time with him and work at developing his skill sets, that he'll he'll never be me and I don't want him to be me because things things transition in life. And so...
00:09:32
Speaker
So pro service and peer groups will transition over time far past me. i mean, Henry Ford started peer groups back in the day, and they have certainly developed over time into lots of different avenues, right? So so so I know that things will change over time as well.
00:09:48
Speaker
so So anyway, i approached him, and one thing led to another. had asked Darren if he had really found anybody, and he said, absolutely not. So I said, well, I've got a candidate that I want to spend some time, let's vet him.
00:10:01
Speaker
And so that's what we did. We spent time with him. Darren spent quite a bit of time with him. Dan spent some time with him. and um And so we all agreed that, hey, let's let's start down the path of discussion and give him some exposure to pro service. And and and so i had I had actually approached Eric, my buddy, you know and said, hey, I've i'd like to I'd like to engage Nick. And and Eric said, that' some that's an outstanding choice.
00:10:31
Speaker
So he was very open-minded about all of it and and said, yeah. So he said, if you develop a relationship and that's the direction that Nick wants to go, he said, I'm board with you doing that. So I thought that was very gracious on his part as well.
00:10:43
Speaker
So so that the conversations have ensued. and And so here we are after the first of the year. Now he's come on board um on a full-time role within Elite. And and I'm going to start to slowly step back in my roles and still be a part of pro service because I love it. It's my baby. And I i don't want to completely give it up. and so but i But that way, then I can have a couple of other guys that can do a lot of the other heavy lifting and can add more value um They're younger minds, right? They're younger minds. They'll be thinking of things that I will have never thought of in formatting and content and things of that nature that I think will really add a new spark to the group.
00:11:26
Speaker
So I'm excited about it.
Tire Industry Insights and Strategies
00:11:28
Speaker
Awesome. So you've been you were at the the meeting in Gastonia, and you were at Coeur d'Alene, right? That's correct, yep. So Coeur d'Alene was at Ben's shop?
00:11:39
Speaker
Ben Perkett, yep. And Gastonia was at Ben's shop? Yeah, that's right. Ben Miller. So are there any other Bens in the group that you can go to their meeting next? or Yeah. Ben Zee Woo. Yeah. yeah um How was that?
00:11:53
Speaker
It was a lot of fun. Met a lot of wonderful people, lot of great operators, and just really impressed by pro service overall. Just high performers. Yeah, really.
00:12:04
Speaker
I actually was texting Ben Prickett yesterday and teasing him because there's Idaho is really well represented here. And he's not here. But he's not here.
00:12:17
Speaker
So one of the things that... I talk to shop owners that come to the podcast about is, things that they have screwed up or done wrong in the last year a few months.
00:12:31
Speaker
Um, and I asked this confessions of a shop owner, or step into the confessional, you know, bless me shop owner for I've send, you know, that kind of deal. Um, you guys get to see shops all over the country who are by default kind of high performing shops already.
00:12:48
Speaker
So the mistakes that you see, I think, are not, you know, I don't believe in marking up parts or, you know, $75 labor rates. You don't deal with those things. I think the problems that you guys deal with are a little bit more complex or a little bit more nuanced, typically.
00:13:02
Speaker
Sure. um I want to hear from you, Nick, about the tire side of the world because I feel like most of the listeners on this podcast are going to be heavy maintenance and repair side.
00:13:15
Speaker
And we all want to get better at tires. And flip side is that all the tire guys want to get better at maintenance and repair, right? We all one hundred percent we all think that the grass is greener on the other side.
00:13:26
Speaker
But the one thing that I do know is that when I drive around downtown, the tire stores have really big, beautiful buildings on major corners and high traffic areas and the shops are in industrial complexes in the back. So I want to learn more about tires. What, what are the big mistakes that you see maintenance guys making who are trying to get better at tires?
00:13:48
Speaker
Can interject one thing while you're thinking about that? Absolutely. So I think that one thing that the listeners need to be aware of is that because of the fact that I spend so much time um now over the years of working with lot of shop owners that are now ready to sell, right? And so those that have at least a 7% to 10% mix of tires in their total gross sales, right?
00:14:11
Speaker
will tend to get a better multiple on their overall sale of their business. And so I think that that's a key point that that a lot of people need to be aware of as to why they should be involved.
00:14:23
Speaker
That's a very valuable point. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so tires, that is ah a wild beast. It's fast food world where maintenance and repair a little slower paced, right? and You have a lot more opportunity to build your average RO.
00:14:38
Speaker
But the expectation from the customer is if they're getting tires, they need to be in and out as fast as possible. A lot of them like to wait. um So the expectation is kind of the mix and McDonald's business model.
00:14:51
Speaker
And I think a lot of people make mistakes where they say, I want to sell more tires, but they don't fully commit. We've got a lot of big wholesalers out there now, you know, ATD, US Auto Force, NTW, things like that.
00:15:03
Speaker
Even with hotshot delivery or next day delivery, that's still not always fast enough for the tire customer. Because it typically ends up in an emergency situation where they need a solution now in order to get their kids to school or to the grocery store, whatever, right?
00:15:20
Speaker
So you need to stock some tires, really, and have a couple different brands and then focus on, you know, at least three brands. So you think, should you stock your 20 most common sizes?
00:15:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yep. Top 20 is what I'd recommend having good stock. And you you want a good, better, best option in each size. Correct. Well, yes. And depending how you define that, right? So definitely want a premium brand that people can recognize.
00:15:48
Speaker
um and then there's a lot of tier two brands that people recognize, but it's not always necessary. You could go with two tier three brands and you could just call one year tier two and make higher margin points on that.
00:15:59
Speaker
Um, so That's 240 tires in stock. That's a fair amount of space. It is. But there's a lot of good racking systems now.
00:16:12
Speaker
And if you're limited on space, top 10 SKUs, right? Yeah. Cut it half. Yeah. But just have to be a little bit more strategic about it. How many sizes do you think you'd need to have 80% coverage on your market?
00:16:24
Speaker
I feel like it's more now than it's ever been. I think you could do it with 10, really. 10 sizes will give you... Yeah. wow I think you could follow be pretty close to that. No, because there's a lot of sizes now, but those are usually upgraded sub models or, you know, higher end cars, things like that. And those people are used to waiting anyways.
00:16:44
Speaker
Okay. Well, that's ah one of the reasons I've been hesitant to get back into stocking tires because I felt like I would have to have so many tires in stock to have any real in stock options.
00:16:57
Speaker
So interesting. Okay. Um, there's always a conversation among our maintenance world guys about pricing tires.
00:17:09
Speaker
Right. And there is no right answer, right? It's just, you gotta figure out what's right for your business. Um, I think we price tires so high that we're not competitive in a commoditized market as maintenance guys trying to sell tires.
00:17:23
Speaker
Do you guys see the same thing or? Yeah. I mean, is it realistic to expect a 35 point margin on tires or? Not if you're not, if you're not, not to have a buying group yeah not if you're fully committed, right?
00:17:34
Speaker
Because part of buying group. And then also if you have enough volume, you start buying direct from the manufacturer, but you have to buy ah container or, you know, 300 units at a time to get those better deals.
00:17:47
Speaker
and That's probably what led you to having a distribution center then I'm guessing. Exactly. Yeah. Cause then you start building those margin points in it and then you're making 50, 60 volumes on a set fifty sixty seventy points on a set of tires Man, that's better than a lot of us get on parts.
00:18:04
Speaker
yeah yeah That's why the the tire stores have those big, beautiful buildings on the hot corner.
Succession Planning and Business Transition
00:18:10
Speaker
That's right. So, well, cool. Jim, what about you? What do you think is the most one of the most common mistakes that you see from your members? So I think that just because, again, the the road has been a long road for me. And so I've seen so many different things that have gone on with business owners over the decades. And so I think that um now the latter part of my coaching career,
00:18:35
Speaker
i I truly believe that um most business owners really aren't thinking about the end in mind and in their development of how how they're structuring their business. They're busy either buying stores and building volume or they're theyre you know building up within their organization.
00:18:56
Speaker
they're not They're not really thinking about what's what's my what's my exit strategy. And I think that that... um That needs to be, i think, thought about more and probably discussed more even within the groups as to what's what's the plan.
00:19:10
Speaker
You know, I've had certainly situations where, you know, shop owners have abruptly passed away. um And so those have been more more tragic because they didn't have any kind of continuity plans.
00:19:22
Speaker
But let's set that that whole conversation aside for the moment and just look at, again, what's the end in mind. And um what what I find happens so often is that there are many shop owners that have family with that are within in the business, and so they look at those as the natural extension of ah potentially their successors, which isn't always necessarily the best plan. They're more emotionally invested as opposed to, you know, is this truly the best best route for the business?
00:19:52
Speaker
in order to continue to transition or sell and have, you know, the right outcome for myself as an owner. so So I think that it's it would be important for um for business owners to really start thinking about sooner than later as to, you know, what's the model? what do i What do I want to create? Do I want to create um Lots of value so that i I'll have outside private equity company come in and look at buying buying up multiple locations um because they're not as enthusiastic with just buying one or two.
00:20:24
Speaker
um Or am I going to really look at developing you know one strong organization, maybe single location, and having an excellent candidate to be able to sell to who is going to actually see more value and probably pay a higher multiple um because of the fact that they see more value in what what the culture is and what's been created.
00:20:44
Speaker
So I think, you know, at the end of the day, what is it that you're trying to create? And so um I think that that part's really important as to what's the end of mine for all for all of them. And I think because what I find even in some occasions that's happening currently you know is that they they may have had somebody identified within the organization, developed them, and then that individual finds other opportunity and leaves, right? And so now they're they suddenly they're They're stuck, and so they have and they haven't properly groomed that individual or start setting up some type of incentive or agreements or something that is going to emotionally hold them.
00:21:23
Speaker
And um so then they end up leaving, and then they try to find other candidates, and you know now they're in their mid-60s and looking to try to develop somebody, that and they run out of time. And so, you know, so then they then they jump to say, well, like i'm I'm not going to have enough time. I realize that I'm not going to have enough time. Now now I'm going to go to the outside world and try to sell it, right?
00:21:43
Speaker
And because the model hasn't been built correctly, then outside outside interest may not have an interest in the organization, even if it's profitable, because, you know, onboarding a single store, you know, you may have to find another multiple store operator potentially because private equity might not be interested. you So you're in this quagmire of trying to figure out next steps, and you're probably, at the end of the day, not going to achieve the goal of um receiving as much for the business as you had hoped because the plan isn't set.
00:22:11
Speaker
so So I think that that's, from a financial standpoint, is one of the biggest things that I'm seeing, and i think it I think it should be started very early on in your and your business life cycle to have some understanding of what that should be.
00:22:26
Speaker
I agree with that. Um, yeah. And be as specific as possible on your plan because even though my dad and I, we had a plan for our family business, we were, we were in the same book, but we weren't on the same page. So when we did end up selling, it was still pretty stressful for both of us. And my wife ultimately became the mediator between us to make sure, you know, we didn't kill each other.
00:22:48
Speaker
So I think one of the reasons I had a,
00:22:54
Speaker
An easy transition into ownership um as far as stress goes. And a big part of that is thanks to Jim's leadership of my father and, you know, his counseling of dad on how to.
00:23:09
Speaker
you know, approach it And then we had lots of conversations about how to structure the deal. And, um, you know, dad came to me and he said very clearly the business ain't going to be yours for free, right?
00:23:21
Speaker
You're going to buy You have the option to get it at a discount, but if somebody comes with a big enough bag of money, they get to buy it at that price too. um And I really appreciate that guidance on your part because I think you spend a lot of time talking to each of us privately and then together as well.
00:23:38
Speaker
um But the other thing that's really unique about family business situations is that there are some very unique strategies that really aren't talked about and you know with mainstream attorneys and accountants that you can minimize or almost eliminate all the tax from cap gain standpoint or you having to come up with the dollars that are already...
00:24:00
Speaker
you know, that have already been taxed dollars and are now being, you know, transferred over to your parents and now they're going to get tax on a capital gain basis. And so there's, there's some other unique strategies. And so, you know, if that's the path that, um, you know, that, that,
00:24:16
Speaker
that your listeners are wanting to go down. I'm more than happy to give them ideas as to how they could structure that. and There's some very unique ways of being able to accomplish it. And so, you know, so i I think again, it's, you know, having that planning and that thought process I think is, is really important in order to to capture as many dollars out of the sale as you possibly can.
00:24:38
Speaker
I would love to get an opinion from each of you. i was at a training event last year. want to say April and there was representative there talking about this topic, positioning your business for maximum value on exit.
00:24:55
Speaker
and talking about the difference between selling your business as a single location or a small group to a key employee or to another business owner in your market versus positioning it to have value to sell to equity.
00:25:10
Speaker
And how much more can come from the equity opportunity versus typically a key employee. um He, I feel like,
00:25:23
Speaker
was doing a little bit of fear-based selling. yeah He was implying that over the next decade, 70 or 80% of the independent repair shops are gonna be absorbed or pushed out of business. I don't think that takes into account all of the technicians that are leaving and starting their own business and and growing and learning, because that's happening every day, right? um and Or you know people from the white collar world that get fed up and want to go open a shop, right? and that's happening a lot. You you see them buying small shops or buying, I think that's Christian Brothers' model, is getting white collar folks who want to get out of the world, out of that world and go in buy a franchise.
00:26:02
Speaker
um But I think what they're doing is they're packaging up groups of shops to then go to equity and get a maximum multiplier and take a little cream off the top for themselves.
00:26:14
Speaker
And leave them as operators. Yeah. Um, and I don't know that that's, I mean, I guess if you have the right personality, but most independent business owners don't want to be accountable to somebody else.
00:26:25
Speaker
So, and and so, so all of a sudden now you're selling an interest in your business. Um, you're going to be accountable to the numbers, right? they're They're looking for a return on investment. And I'm not sure that that's that that is exactly the right thing to do. I imagine there there are groups of business owners that um find value in that because then they've got other rocket fuel to help them scale.
00:26:47
Speaker
But if they aren't you know they haven't got some really strong control in how they really want to operate their business and and and looking at maximizing and profits that are satisfactory for them,
00:27:01
Speaker
They could get squeezed, you know, by private equity that's saying, hey, no, we expect to expect a stronger performance, and you know, out of these stores that you're going to be purchasing in the future, as well as what you'veve you've already given me an interest in.
00:27:14
Speaker
What was your experience going from, maybe you weren't the CEO of your group, or were you, i don't know. Of our four stores? Yeah. Yeah. At the end of it, I was.
00:27:24
Speaker
Okay. So what was your experience going from being the boss to being an employee? That's ah a tough transition. It really is. You're used to making all the decisions, being involved in everything day to day. And you transitioned to a a large organization. You're focused on, I was just focused on operations and and you missed it. and you missed ah the interaction with a lot of your old employees and just the personal touch that you have running a small business.
Personal Stories and Traveling Adventures
00:27:51
Speaker
where you moved to a different group of stores and the stores that you, that they bought. Correct. Yep. I would imagine that would be necessary. Yeah. Cause otherwise they would just come to you no matter what. yep Yeah. Um, I can see how that would be difficult, man. That would be weird.
00:28:05
Speaker
Um, I, I think I would be a bad employee. both Most owners are. believe that. I want to go back to something that you said earlier, totally unrelated to this conversation.
00:28:19
Speaker
um You've been to all the national parks. You've been to all the states. You're about to go to your seventh continent this winter. Why and the would you go to Antarctica in winter? Why don't you ask? It's for love.
00:28:31
Speaker
Actually, I think I was talking to Sherry the last time we were together, and she said that you are not thrilled about it. No, not thrilled. Now when all the conversations are all surrounded by...
00:28:46
Speaker
Wow, look at the penguins. Wow, look at the icebergs. Wow, look at the penguins. Wow, look at the icebergs. There's not even any polar bears on there. That's right. Yeah, no. no But we're going. Are all going to put on the seal skin suits and jump in the water?
00:28:59
Speaker
No, but Cherry might jump in the water just if she got it if she's got a ah a good enough dry suit, she probably would do it. She did it up in Alaska when we were out you know around the icebergs. and we we took We took a trip when we were up bouncing around doing national parks in Alaska. And and Sherry's a water dog anyway, right? so But we had dry suits on and we were driving ski-doos out in the ocean, right? And so there were there was the guide and then four of us all on our individual machines. and
00:29:29
Speaker
It is really an amazing experience to to sit in a bay and um and and listen to the ice cracking and you know and watching parts of the the ice you know calving did you see a big calving while you're not a large one but small calving you know that was coming off and i'd be terrified it was it was pretty wild and so uh so the the guy that we were with challenged sherry to get in the water of course to game on so she did so she slid off her ski-doo and was out there you know looked like an otter out on the water and you know and then watch out for or and then finally was you know so shivering her hands were so cold and you know i had to drag her back i'm on the ski-doo but nonetheless she did do it so so it wouldn't surprise me no thanks no thanks yeah yeah she's got gusto um
00:30:20
Speaker
You said you played soccer in college, right? I did, yeah. Where'd you go to school? I played soccer in Coeur d'Alene at North Idaho College, and then I transferred to the University of Great Falls. Okay. ah That has become one of my interview questions that I ask is, did you ever play any team sports?
00:30:36
Speaker
And the higher level team sport that they played, I find... It's a pre, i mean, it's a corollary to if they've played at a high level in team sports, they're more likely to
Importance of Training and Peer Groups
00:30:47
Speaker
be a good employee. I don't know why that is. And maybe um and it hasn't been the case. Like ah i was a wrestler. i was a tennis player. I was a golfer.
00:30:56
Speaker
I'm looking for baseball, football, soccer. I guess they're just used to depending upon others and being dependable to others. Well, and then everyone has their role too as well, right? So they know what they're supposed to do and you have to work together and get it done.
00:31:11
Speaker
I just thought that that was interesting. It is interesting. Yeah. I would agree. Back to sports. I know you love sports. If you know Jim, you know that he loves sports and text messages, especially group text. Yeah.
00:31:25
Speaker
I sent you a text message this morning. just it was written down on paper. That's right. He slid it over to me. Here's your text message. Yeah.
00:31:35
Speaker
um so I also try to ask any shop owners that are in the room about, uh, what, how, what they are investing and how they are investing in training for themselves and for their team.
00:31:46
Speaker
Um, again, it's a little bit different for you guys. You're the trainers a lot of the time. ah but you also go to some of these events around the country. Sure. Um, I know that, uh, you know, with elite, a lot of the times it's the other side of the elite team that that's going to a lot of the events, but i know that you were at apex this year and, um,
00:32:04
Speaker
What events do you see or do you feel like bring the most value to to owners? Obviously other than Ignite 2025 in Dallas. i I think you know listening to a lot of the colleagues within Pro Service, I think that um there's a lot of great events that that are happening, you know both whether you're talking about ATE up in the Northwest, you know Vision you know within Kansas, i mean the events that you you put on in your organization. ASDA Expo.
00:32:37
Speaker
Yes, there you go. um But I also have, I have a lot of respect for those that are also, you know, my competition or leads competition, you know, for, for others that are also putting on larger events. I mean, you know, I hear good things that come out of ShopFix. I hear, you know, I hear good things that come out of other organizations as well that, that put together training that,
00:32:59
Speaker
da that the colleagues find valuable. So, you know, my my philosophy over the 25 years that I've coached is I really, doesn't bother me at all where you get your training. Just go get training.
00:33:11
Speaker
You know, wherever wherever those sources are coming from, I think it's extremely important. And I And I may be standing alone and isolated by saying that within Elite, but but I truly believe that. I mean, in looking for avenues for technical training for your technicians, sales training, and it really doesn't bother me where you're getting it.
00:33:31
Speaker
um You know, obviously as a as a member of the Elite team, you know, I'd certainly like to see it with us. but But if the opportunities are there and you've got great feedback from your peers that there are other sources of great training, I'm all over it.
00:33:47
Speaker
That's one of the things that I've loved the most about Elite and you, Jim, and the way you facilitate the group. You're kind of concept agnostic as long as it's ethical and profitable. Yeah.
00:33:58
Speaker
Just do it the way you're going to do it. Whereas a lot of the groups out there, it's like cookie cutter, you got to do it this way. um The other thing is, i remember the first time I went to another company's event, I felt like I was cheating on Elite a little bit and I was a little bit shy to tell you about it.
00:34:16
Speaker
You're like, I don't care, go get training. If it's something really good, come back and tell us about it, right? Yep. And so you've got, there's a bunch of- Seed the group, right? So if you've learned something that's really great, Seed the group.
00:34:27
Speaker
And that's you know because i that's that's what I view it as, is that if you're learning something and you can disseminate it to others to help with them as well, I'm all about how how to lift the community overall.
00:34:39
Speaker
And so wherever the sources come from, yeah I don't care where you where you drink from. I don't care what the water source is, right? I just want everybody everybody to be hydrated you know as a result of all of that. That's awesome. I think that that is also...
00:34:53
Speaker
unusual. I, the one thing that I've found as I've gotten more heavily involved in my trade group and going to training events around the country and that kind of thing is that lot of trainers are very territorial, very, you know, they lick their finger and poke somebody and they get to own that person now. Right. Or, you know, they get to own that person.
00:35:14
Speaker
verb or that, and you know, whatever they they want to be, that that terminology. So I appreciate that of you and and of elite in general. um I would just add that just even you can learn a lot from your peers as well. And that's why peer groups are so powerful because you have those conversations after the meetings, at dinner, whatever, in a hotel room, and you learn a lot from them at those times.
00:35:38
Speaker
And it just spurs these moments of creativity. You're like, oh, wow, that's going amazing. I'm going to do that. ah so um If somebody wants to be a part of pro service, and pro service is the 20 group under the umbrella of elite, um they have to qualify, right? there's its sure is of there's There is a vetting process.
00:35:56
Speaker
um I think the person to reach out to if you're interested, is that Tom? Tom Amaro. So Tom Amaro. But are you guys able to say kind of what the the baseline qualifiers are? Yeah.
00:36:07
Speaker
I'd love to hear that. Yep, absolutely. So it's real simple ah initially. So what we do is we we look for anybody that is doing at least a million in gross sales.
00:36:17
Speaker
And so the combination does really doesn't matter as far as what the mix is. But a million dollars is kind of the threshold. I also look for their ability to have some pretty good understanding of their financials because that is a component of what we do. is I think it's a tool for measuring, and um and I know that there are other groups that maybe aren't as reliant upon that.
00:36:40
Speaker
But I feel it's it's extremely important. I really want to know how well I'm doing as a coach. And um being able to see the measurables that we follow within the group um not only not only helps me to to guide and mentor those that are within the group,
00:36:58
Speaker
But it also is kind of a little bit of a report card for me, too. I mean, i i I get a lot of satisfaction out of seeing that growth. So anyway, so they need to have um an understanding of their financials. um i I really want to see, you know, based on their personalities, i how do they give back to their employees? How do they develop their people?
00:37:17
Speaker
How do they work at developing their community? You know, that that's another, you know, how do they give back? You know, I find that if um if I get an opportunity to be able to spend some time with a business owner, um i I think that they'll be a better group member if I see that kind of behavior um within their community, within their business of how do they give back.
00:37:41
Speaker
um That's really important to me when it comes to being involved in the group. And then they the last component is is what we call the ADI, so Area of dimin ah Dominant Influence.
00:37:52
Speaker
um so i So depending on where they're located, i want to make sure that they're not going to be in competition with somebody that's currently in the group. So that's that's a broad overview of of what I look for.
00:38:04
Speaker
I think I can appreciate that. You know, there's another, i guess he's he's sold and retired now, but there's another pro service guy who was 10 miles from me for a long time, Keith.
00:38:17
Speaker
and But we were not at all competitive with one another. and There are some other groups out there that the check clears you remember, right? and And that's their model. and i that's Yeah, that's okay. It's just a different way to do it. But i will um but I've had some that have been referred and and they will be very close to somebody that's within the group.
00:38:39
Speaker
um So I'll talk to the current member and say, hey, you know, there's somebody that is very qualified in many other areas, but they are in your area of dominant influence. um Would you have an issue with them coming into the business or excuse me, coming into the group?
00:38:52
Speaker
And um and many times they'll say, no, I'd be more than happy to have them involved. I'll put them in a different group within the large group. Um, so they'll not necessarily be in the same group.
00:39:03
Speaker
Um, but I've had others that will say definitely not. i There's no way that I would want that to happen. And so I, I will have to call the prospective member back and say, I'm terribly sorry.
00:39:15
Speaker
can't, yeah you know, cause I, I'm definitely going to, honor their request course is more important to me.
Coaching vs. Peer Groups: Making the Right Choice
00:39:22
Speaker
Awesome. Yeah. I talked to two shop owners this morning who are here at the event that are not current coaching clients. um one was like, I think I need a 20 group. I need a peer group.
00:39:38
Speaker
um But I think he probably, without knowing any more, Probably needs some one-on-one coaching to get to the point where he can participate in the peer group and qualify for the peer group.
00:39:50
Speaker
That's okay. It's smaller operation. Sure. um And another one, he's known in the industry, at least on the forums, that kind of stuff. He's got a really successful business, and he says, I'm just burned out, and I'm just um fried. and i need He was here to try to get re-energized.
00:40:08
Speaker
ah and Which is great. i'm glad that he's looking for solutions as opposed to just sitting there being burnt out. um So what would you say to that shop owner who maybe has built a business that is you know substantial but is just kind of fried mentally?
00:40:24
Speaker
um is I know that I get recharged every time I come to a pro service meeting. So it is like plugging up at the supercharging station and recharging my Tesla before I head back out. Right.
00:40:35
Speaker
Do you think that that coming in as a new guy in the pro service or and a new owner in the pro service is is a good answer for that? Depends on the person. It could be. Yeah, but it could be.
00:40:50
Speaker
his Here's what I find more times than not. if there're If they're, again, it depends on their their age, right? but But it what I find happens more times than not is owners usually start to enter into their 50s and then start to wane.
00:41:05
Speaker
you know So those those have a better shot at probably um being you know just need a recharge. But if they're starting in at their late 50s or their early 60s, they're already thinking about other things that they want to do with their lives.
00:41:19
Speaker
I would encourage them to really be diligent and look to find the solution as to what's going to be their out. and if And if they think that they'd like to continue to be involved in their business, then I then i would highly encourage them to be very diligent to find that that successor that they could start to bring up within the organization.
00:41:40
Speaker
and um And then now having that person involved with the group along with the owner um has will will have a much higher success rate of the the owner actually wanting to be energized because they've got they've got this young buck now that's that's constantly enthusiastic and wants to grow and will encourage that owner to have a positive outlook as a result of their enthusiasm, I think has a far greater chance of success than
00:42:11
Speaker
than just to come into a peer group and think that that somehow there's going to be a magical wand that's going to um be waved over them and change their behavior. I just don't. I've experienced that in the past, and more times than not, that's not that's not the answer.
00:42:27
Speaker
It needs to be something that's more ongoing than just plugging into the supercharger. Well, and talking about the age point, and then there's also the youngest guy in all of pro service, Richard Gauthier, who bought his shop as a retirement business after he was already 60-plus years old.
00:42:45
Speaker
And he's one of the most energetic and young behaving guys in the whole group. And he's in his seventies, right? Yep. Um, recorded with him yesterday. What a fun guy, man. Yeah. hes Yeah.
00:42:57
Speaker
Half the time we log onto our maintenance meetings and he's on the back of his boat, Catalina. or something, you know. Yeah, motorhome at the beach. yeah Yeah. He's in the desert getting ready to jump dune buggies or something. don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:43:09
Speaker
He's living life. and so but But, you know, again, to his credit, he has you know he has a couple of key people that he has been developing for some time that has allowed him this freedom, right?
00:43:20
Speaker
i Still highly engaged with the business and mentoring and grooming them, but still enjoy and then still enjoys being involved in the business, but gives them the opportunity to do the other things that are important to him and his wife as well.
Community and Event Reflections
00:43:33
Speaker
So, so I think that that's, that's the key portion of all of this. And that's why i think it's helpful for him.
00:43:39
Speaker
Um, Shift gears a little bit. You have built a community of friends that you've developed over the years in your, where you live now. i don't know if you want to say where you live. you Yeah, in Anthem, Arizona. Okay.
00:43:53
Speaker
You've got five of your former clients that have successfully sold their business and now live in and around Anthem with you. Is that right? No, think it's more. I think nobody says three. again' just three eight that's so awesome and and you were a gracious host for my son and i last summer when we came through what a beautiful area to live in man oh my gosh so i can see why mike mike was a little desperate you know there were some fires that were occurring so they shut the freeway down he was coming up to my house in flagstaff to stay overnight says i'm not making it yeah the roads were closed it was like a four-hour detour to get her off Yeah. So you had to loop back down and it wasn't very far from my house on Anthem. I said, here's the, here's the code to the house. Just go stay there.
00:44:39
Speaker
You know? And so it's,
00:44:42
Speaker
When friends are in distress, you do the right thing. It was awesome. It just worked out great. Then he just came up, blasted up the next morning. No big deal. Everything was wide open, to go. He was fresh, and his son was with him. It was fun to have him at least be able to see my other house. Then off they went on their adventure, so was good.
00:44:59
Speaker
What a fun trip that was. yeah I think I'm going try to do something like that with all three kids when they graduate in middle school. yeah so so let's Let's go bicycling on the Grand Canyon.
00:45:10
Speaker
It's fun. So you're telling me I've got to get into a little bit better physical condition? we can do an e-bike.
00:45:20
Speaker
I need the extra large cushioned seat to have a very delicate posterior. Yeah, we can hook you up. Okay. um Well, great, guys. I really appreciate all taking the time to hang out.
00:45:32
Speaker
Thank you. It's been a lot of fun. has been a lot of fun. And the event's been really good, too. I've been pleasantly surprised how engaged everybody's been. I've seen a lot of smiles, a lot of... I think Darren's done a good job of getting folks to meet other people as opposed to it's pretty common to have little cliques of people that you know. And so we're forcing that issue to really be better at introducing yourself to others. Well, a trade, we're antisocial in general. Well, you're the one that doesn't like people, remember? Yeah, I fucking hate people. think that's a good note
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:46:11
Speaker
to leave it on. Thanks, guys. Thank you.
00:46:14
Speaker
Thanks for listening to Confessions of a Shop Owner, where we lay it all out, the good, and the bad, and sometimes the super messed up. I'm your host, Mike Allen, here to remind you that even the pros screw it up sometimes. So why not laugh a little bit, learn a little bit, and maybe have another drink?
00:46:28
Speaker
You got a confession of your own or a topic you'd like me to cover? Or do you just want to let me know what an idiot I am? Email mike at confessionsofashopowner.com or call and leave a message. The number is 704-CONFESS. That's 704-266-3377. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, or follow.
00:46:48
Speaker
Join us on this crazy journey that is shop ownership. I'll see you on the next episode.
00:47:22
Speaker
Yeah.