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Ep 21 - Carrie-Lynn Rodenberg & Tyler Ellinson | I Almost Started A Dental Practice
260 Plays25 days ago
I use Tekmetric at my shop, and it's changed everything! It can do the same for you. CLICK HERE to learn how.
I love launching helpful new technology at my shop! Especially when it makes my shop more efficient. That’s what Detect Auto has done for me. Want to learn how? Click HERE
Carrie-Lynn tells the story today of how and why she started working with repair shops. Because she believes in the industry! Let her help you make your marketing about the customer and not your ego today. Learn how HERE
Today, Mike Allen sits down with guests Carrie-Lynn Rodenberg from Turnkey Marketing and Tyler Ellinson, a multi-store operator in the Pacific Northwest. They talk about the ups and downs of marketing and the failures shop owners make trying to do it themselves. Carrie-Lynn also shares the number one problem she sees shop owners make daily in their marketing.
00:00 Dallas Recording at Elite Worldwide Event
06:16 Ambivalence Towards Car Enthusiasm
09:00 Contemplating Career Change Dilemma
12:42 Transitioning Family Business Leadership
15:33 "Discovering Small Business Marketing"
17:13 "BNI Networking and Marketing Coaching"
21:26 Auto Repair Shop Growth Partnership
26:11 Avoid Bottom Feeders: Offer Value
27:45 Pricing Communication in Service Industries
30:11 Free Diagnostics to Attract Customers
33:17 Building Rapport to Attract Customers
39:03 Entrepreneurial Priorities and Pitfalls
40:27 Proactive Problem-Solving Fix
46:04 Training Focus for Team Growth
49:07 Goal Setting and Succession Planning
50:26 Delegating for Efficiency
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Background
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, world. Today, I've got one of the last recordings that I had the chance to do while I was in Dallas back in January. It's with Carolyn Rodenberg of Turnkey Marketing and Tyler Ellenson, who is a longtime friend of mine and multi-store operator in the Pacific Northwest.
00:00:15
Speaker
And I did want to do a special intro today. ah in the and intervening time since we recorded this and we're releasing it, ah Tyler actually had a major heart attack and had to have emergency surgery. And he's currently in recovery. And I just want to say, Tyler, we love you, buddy. And I hope that ah you're following doctor's orders so that Margaret doesn't have to beat you too badly for misbehaving.
00:00:39
Speaker
Do your exercises, take your medicine, eat right, all those types of things. And I hope to see you at our next meeting. Get better soon, buddy. We love you.
Podcast Disclaimer and Show Introduction
00:00:50
Speaker
The following program features a bunch of doofuses talking about the automotive aftermarket. The stuff we, or our guests may say, do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of our peers, our sponsors, or any other associations we may have.
00:01:04
Speaker
There may be some spicy language in this show, so if you get your feelings hurt easily, you should probably just move along. So without further ado, it's time for Confessions of a Shop Owner, with your host, Mike Gallen.
History and Marketing Experiences
00:01:22
Speaker
We are at Elite. I've been recording with folks at Elite the last couple of days at the Ignite event in Dallas. Having a lot of good conversations and having a lot of fun. And I've got a couple people that I've known for a long time and that have been really impactful in my evolution, in my career, in my business.
00:01:39
Speaker
And so i'm excited to have you both here. We've got Carolyn Rodenberg from Turnkey Auto Marketing. yep I was a client of yours for three years. Actually, I was just thinking about it. You were a client from 2018 to about 2018.
00:01:52
Speaker
about chosen 23 or 24. You've only been gone for like a year. that's been like two years, I think. Well, i'm coming I'm coming back. Yeah, so you're with us for like four or five years of hiatus. Now you're back.
00:02:05
Speaker
So it's good to be back. Yeah, let's good to have you back. um And Tyler, you've been with Carrie Lynn for how long? So it's been six to nine months-ish. July. Yeah, so at the Eugene meeting is where we...
00:02:24
Speaker
Got introduced to her. Okay. um And then it was, we took, you know, kind of a month internally to decide, do we want to start marketing again? um And how, what should that look like? Because we're at a point where we weren't marketing at all.
00:02:38
Speaker
Yeah. fortunate we had car count we didn't you know in you know thought process well I don't need to market well um I think we've been proven that we do need to market you know so it's been a while but it's been kind of like a whirlwind of you know I mean it's the simple stuff of ah getting getting back on Facebook you know I didn't even know what my login was you know so that's how bad I was it was I have totally stopped all social media marketing for my business yeah With the exception of last month, I did a so we're open on Saturdays now.
00:03:12
Speaker
Oh, wow. Yeah. and At the big store, the one that you visited years ago. um And we just started. So we're three Saturdays in. And so we did a deal where it was free oil chain on Saturday.
00:03:24
Speaker
uh if you book through our our booking link um and it's funny we were busy as all get out every saturday so far but we've only redeemed seven free oil changes so far that's perfect yeah that's it you want you want to be very little but be very i would i'm surprised at that number i would think it'd be higher we had um 22 cars the first saturday and three free oil changes we had 20 cars the second saturday and four free oil changes Interesting. doesn't always Free doesn't always work.
00:03:54
Speaker
Yeah. You know, like you'd think like you're saying, you'd think it'd be more, but that's why that kind of irresistible offer where they still have some skin in the game sometimes really, we've found with the hundreds of shops that we work with really, really helps.
00:04:08
Speaker
So are these new customers for you? Are you able to track? It's a different customer base. i would I would think that it is because your existing clientele knows, you know, they have their rhythm. they know well and And there's a segment of the population that only thinks about car service on the weekend.
00:04:22
Speaker
Yeah. right Busy people. And so a lot of them are people that maybe have been in once or twice in the last five years because that was when it was convenient for them. They were off that day or whatever it might have been.
00:04:34
Speaker
But now it's convenient for them every weekend. So I'm very optimistic early on. So we'll see. That's awesome. wait i I failed to introduce you, Tyler. I apologize. so Tyler Ellenson from yeah Great Pacific Northwest. Yeah, Portland metro area.
00:04:49
Speaker
Portland metro area. Three shops. Three? crazy. Tigard, Wilsonville, and Newburgh. Tigard, Wilsonville, Newburgh. Kind of a triangle area just outside of Portland.
00:05:01
Speaker
And how long have you been in business? 33 years. it's awesome you a tech turn shop owner. No, this is a hobby on steroids. okay um Always like to fix things, want to know, understand how things work.
00:05:15
Speaker
um You know, that's kind of what drove me into it. And then it was um the thrill of being able to fix things, couldn't, you know, fix cars that other people couldn't fix. um And basically you love to take care of the customer.
00:05:32
Speaker
You know, they a problem and I was able to fix that problem for them. you know so um this is all self-taught i did no i'd never worked in a shop you
Challenges and Career Influences
00:05:40
Speaker
know well in high school i pumped gas for my uncle and changed a couple belts and batteries ah but that was at a chevron gas station i wouldn't call that a shop you know but nonetheless just car enthusiast but more how does it work enthusiast um when it came to cars trying to understand why things broke and understand how to get that fixed and understand the pains of the customer and being being able to say, ah did that.
00:06:10
Speaker
And that was that was kind of cool. So are yeah are you a car guy?
00:06:16
Speaker
Yes and no. I mean, we live in cars, right? So that whole car guy thing, I would i would say probably not because... when a super cool car comes in, you know, cool air coats, you know, car comes in the shop, it's like, wow, that's nice. I admire...
00:06:33
Speaker
that but at the same token if it's that cool of a car i don't want it in the shop for long i want to fix it and move it on because i don't want anything to happen to it i don't want the liability to it right you know um i love going to car shows but i don't you know a lot of goes do you have a dragster do you have a hot rod no i you know i have the stuff that works for me of a more functional type car guy i want the right tool for the right job that sort of you know one but you know i want the right truck i want the right car i want you that but so yes and no more no but yes because we're in the industry i mean i appreciate everything that's out there and i understand the cars that are out there you know i love uh chrysler fiat products not because they're necessarily well engineered but just because they they keep my family fed so effectively fix it was fix it again tyler
00:07:26
Speaker
Fiat, fix it again, Tyler. Nice. Nice. I am think that kind of one of the things that you just said reminds me of one of the old cliches about shop owners that I always rolled my eyes at because my frame of reference was just my dad's shop, right?
00:07:40
Speaker
But I've found it to be true as I've been heavily involved with ASTA and visiting other shops around North Carolina and then with Elite and visiting other shops around the country, more so with ASTA, really.
00:07:52
Speaker
But the tech turned shop owner when they're talking to me online on one of my Friday night zoom calls or they message me on Facebook or whatever, and they want to talk about a problem that they're having with this or yeah throughput or capacity or whatever.
00:08:08
Speaker
So, well, what bay is the hot rod in? And invariably it's in the back bay. It's out of the way. That's revenue. That's revenue generating square footage that you're putting your hobby in.
00:08:19
Speaker
Yeah. I might as well just store my ah RV in there and, you know, it's like, what what's the point in tying up that lift with that hot rod that never moves? It's everywhere, man. It's everywhere. see Well, how many shops have we been to over the years? And we've seen all of that.
00:08:34
Speaker
You know um it makes no sense to me. I do want to tell a story about talking about visiting shops over the years. We were visiting but our buddy Keith Ivey's shop in Raleigh, actually. um had to have been 15 years ago at this point because I wasn't in ownership yet. i My dad was in your 20 group.
00:08:52
Speaker
Right. For years as you were coming into the group, yeah I was working with your dad before I really knew you. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Well, we're we're sitting at this meeting, right? And the 20 group meetings for a lead are two or three days long.
00:09:06
Speaker
And we were at the bar after the meeting wrap before we went to dinner that night. And I told Tyler that I just really didn't think this industry was for me, that it was, but I didn't want to like screw my dad by leaving in a way that would be bad. So I said, I'm going to give dad a one year notice so that he can change his exit plan and everything else. Yeah. And my wife, newlywed at the time, my wife is a dentist, freshly mended out of school.
00:09:33
Speaker
She had no desire to be a business owner. I was like, well, you open a practice. I'll run it for you. And you can just fix teeth, right? um And so Tyler pretty much grabbed me by the ear and drug me to the restaurant and put me in the back corner of the meeting room that we had and, like, surrounded me and bullied me and and shamed me into retracting that statement.
00:09:57
Speaker
So here's the deal. I know how to run the front of house at a shop. I like to think that I'm a decent shop owner, but I also know that I don't know how to actually work on cars. I pay someone else who is an expert and a professional to manage that part of the business for me.
00:10:13
Speaker
You should consider doing the same thing when it comes to managing your marketing. There's a lot of different facets and a lot of different types of marketing and finding skill set and the knowledge to be an expert at all of those things while also being an expert at fixing cars or recommending and selling service or management or financials.
00:10:32
Speaker
There's just too many hats that we wear as owners. And so a lot of times it's an incredible return on investment to invest in an expert. And I recommend you invest in turnkey auto marketing or just turnkey marketing.
00:10:45
Speaker
I've used them for years and they take a lot of the things that I'm not good at off of my plate and handle them really well so that I don't have to worry about it. I know that it's done right the first time.
00:10:56
Speaker
Give them a call, talk to them and see if you think they can be the right service provider for you. It's turnkeyautomarketing.com. You can go to their website and get a free consultation. I don't think you'll be sad you did. and I don't that it was bullying you. was just enlightening you to the things that you really didn't know. And there was so much talent in that room, it was real easy to do.
00:11:18
Speaker
you know I could just ask the question, ask a pointed question of the guys around me, and I just simply said, you know how much money do you make this year?
00:11:29
Speaker
Because he really didn't have a concept I was a glorified service advisor at that point. He was living that role within the company, but understand the potential of business ownership in this industry.
Succession Planning in Business
00:11:43
Speaker
Couldn't see the vision. And couldn't see it. And it was just real simple to go. And and the numbers that came out with just a pointed question unscripted everything else. And his eyes went, huh.
00:11:54
Speaker
Interesting. Maybe there is something this. Yeah. Maybe we I need to rethink this. yeah you know And I'd like to put the devil advocate that way to be able to to point out a different perspective. And there's so much...
00:12:07
Speaker
good perspective within this group to be able to do that. probably owe you a drink for having that I've gotten a couple from you a little bit a drink. But yeah, you're right. you're You're absolutely right. I think you do.
00:12:17
Speaker
Wow. Your life could have been so different. Yeah. Think about it. i And, uh, I still remember that motorcycle helmet you had with your baby picture in there. Yeah, my firstborn. His firstborn sitting in his motorcycle helmet. His dad used to ride motorcycles. I mean, we have stories of your dad and around. And as you were coming in, I'm looking at you guys going,
00:12:40
Speaker
When are you going to take over the business? I would prod you, right? I would sit there in those barroom conversations and I'd go, when are you going to take over? when are you going to get your dad out? What's the game plan? And you're looking at me like, and so that was all part of the plan to push you to you know take ownership of the company. Well, I'll tell you, my dad deserves an enormous amount of credit because When we finally did start the transition and when he sold his store, he 100% stepped back and he gave me enough rope to hang myself or or not. right and
00:13:14
Speaker
He was always there to help if needed, but he never inserted himself into the conversation. and he never micromanaged. and so That really allowed me to make my own mistakes and learn and and develop and i think i see a lot of second generation sons and daughters of shop owners who want to take that leap and dad won't let go enough to allow them to spread their wings in our group and across the industry i see that happening so i might be guilty that
00:13:49
Speaker
We were having that conversation, weren't we? Yeah, I mean, my boys are at the point where they're going to take over the business. They're both working in the store. And so I'm trying to give them the tools, you know, set them up foundationally so that they have a good business knowledge and work in it.
00:14:03
Speaker
So trying to understand when I need to pull back. And we were having those in our goal session meetings this weekend. of at what point and how do we set them up for success and at what point are we able to pull back and so trying to define that roadmap for them. So I'm kind of at that point that you were at with your dad 15 years ago, so kind of a little turnkey. So I'll take some some kudos or pointers from you to to be able to say, okay, here's – and you were sharing some of your you know kind of the financial side of how you structured that, and so that's all great information.
00:14:35
Speaker
yeah So that I need to go, all right, here's how we're going to do it. Yeah, I think. Yeah, I think some accountability is necessary. They're not going to do it as well as you do it at first.
00:14:47
Speaker
And they're not going to make decisions the same way you make decisions because no the stage you're at in life, you're less conflict or at less risk. You're more risk averse. There we go. That's what I'm looking for.
00:14:57
Speaker
because you're closer to retirement and they're more willing to throw it all out there. I would imagine. I don't know. them They're not going to the same, but I think they can do it better and, and different can be better. And so once we realize that, you know, we get out of the way and, you know, and yeah don't fight the change, but just experience the bride. Yeah. That's where I need to be.
00:15:20
Speaker
So do you have a plan for your business? Like any chance that your little ones are going to be involved in marketing or you, I mean, my little ones are three in 18 months. So it's start it's it's a long way away. So I'm not, you know, it's funny that you asked that because we were talking last night about your sons taking over the business and I was talking to Margaret about it too.
00:15:38
Speaker
And I thought it was kind the first time I really even thought, will my kids take over the business one day? um I don't know. I'm so far from that in life. Are you planting the seed?
00:15:50
Speaker
I mean, that's what I do with my boys. yeah Yeah. So our company initials are their initials. Oh, that's cool. throughout you know And I said, I've told them throughout, you know, this is yours if you want it.
00:16:01
Speaker
you know, you need to want it, but it's yours if you want it. So I, that conversation has always been within the family and that's been how we've rolled. You know, it's, it's not, I have no ambition to sell on this to anyone else and unless they didn't want it and then I would go to plan B. Right. yeah And they both have, you know, drinking the Kool-Aid and they want it and they're working in it and,
00:16:22
Speaker
Yeah. Can't wait for me to go, I suppose, but yeah, I want to, I want to drag Greg Buckley in here at some point, um, for a conversation this weekend. I talked to him last weekend in Houston, uh, but he's here with his son and his son-in-law and his nephew.
00:16:35
Speaker
wow. And they're all in the business. And, I think that would be a pretty interesting conversation. Yeah. Um, but you know, turnkey was really my first baby.
Founding Turnkey Marketing
00:16:45
Speaker
So my husband and I got married, we were 23.
00:16:49
Speaker
And i moved to Kansas City, where he's from. And I was a director of marketing for all these ah dental shops. I call it dental shops, dental offices and orthodontists and stuff. So I oversaw a multi-location dental organization.
00:17:03
Speaker
And it was the first time that I really saw how small business marketing worked. It wasn't the same as what I learned in college or what I had done in Manhattan, New York City. um It was totally different from what you learn about, you know, Walmart and Chick-fil-A and all those different things.
00:17:21
Speaker
And I was like, oh, my gosh, I know these secrets, these small business marketing secrets. Why don't small business owners know this? Why don't they practice this? Why don't they do this? So I started Turnkey six months after my husband and i got married.
00:17:35
Speaker
We moved out of our apartment so I could afford to start it. We moved in with his parents in their basement. Cringy. Oh, so cringy. As like newlyweds, super young.
00:17:47
Speaker
But I was like, I have this dream. And my husband, to his credit, he is the real backbone of Turnkey marketing. Because he he doesn't work for Turnkey. We tried that for about six months one time, and it was awful.
00:17:58
Speaker
But he, the whole time, he always just said, you can do this. Yeah, let's do it. And just supported me. It was awesome. So I started Turnkey. But for so many years, we put off having kids so that we could build Turnkey, so I could build Turnkey.
00:18:14
Speaker
So um we were married nine years before we had kids. So I always say Turnkey was really my first kid. um You know, it's funny, when I first started Turnkey, I started doing just kind of like general marketing coaching for small businesses. And I got really involved with BNI.
00:18:31
Speaker
you guys ever do BNI or anything? Yeah, yeah. And that's where I met, so this is kind of full circle, that's where I met Nick Salas, who's an elite. and he was in my BNI group, and I coached him on marketing.
00:18:45
Speaker
And he was looking for a new website vendor. But he just didn't know, like, is this a good website vendor? Should I go with these people? Should I not go with them? So he wanted me there to interview them, to give him feedback on, here's what I like, here's what I don't like.
00:19:00
Speaker
Like, I don't think this is a good budget, things like that. So went to his office. And I'm sitting in his office in Kansas City. his He has two shops, one in Overland Park, one in Kansas City. And he looks at me and he's like, we need you.
00:19:15
Speaker
Our industry needs you. I was like, okay. You know, I'm this 24 year old at the time and like, all right. And so he kind of called me to this challenge and said, will you focus in on the auto repair industry? And he said, I think you should be basically like a director of marketing for auto repair shops.
00:19:33
Speaker
And I was like, I mean, i have a few auto repair shop clients. You're one of them. i have a couple other ones. and Everyone I worked with was just amazing, salt-of-the-earth people that I truly enjoyed working with.
00:19:46
Speaker
So I said, okay. And he says, great. Tomorrow's the Vision Conference. You're coming with me. Look, when I first opened my shop, I thought my old systems would keep up. The software that I had would continue to evolve. But as we grew, the slow estimates, scattered workflow, everything.
00:20:03
Speaker
increasing downtime, it really just, it was becoming a real problem. That's why I switched to TechMetric. It's not just software. It's a complete shop management system that makes my life easier.
00:20:14
Speaker
Smart jobs, instant estimates, integrated payments, integrated financing options. I mean, it allows me to focus on the work that actually makes me money and not get bogged down in the other details.
00:20:25
Speaker
My shop's repair orders have jumped over 300% since switching to TechMetric. And when I need help, their support team responds in real time. I actually was online with them asking questions just this week, and I got answers in minutes rather than having to wait for callbacks and emails days later.
00:20:40
Speaker
If your system is holding you back, it's time for a change. Tap the link in the show notes and see how TechMetric can help you move your shop forward. So the next day I went to Vision, took all these classes, met all these people, and um he kind of took me under his wing. And, you know, here we are 12 years later.
00:20:58
Speaker
That's awesome. so i I met you, ah I won a raffle at a ShopFix event for a free marketing like plan review. Yeah, I got it. And glad I won the raffle and you pretty much said, what the fuck are you doing, Mike? This is all terrible.
00:21:19
Speaker
It's not what you said, but that was the implication. yeah We gave you some feedback. We gave you some pointers. Yeah. Um, but the thing that I really loved, uh, when you, when I signed up with you at the time, and I don't know if you still do this or not, um you probably don't have the bandwidth to still do this, but you took the time to come and like visit me at my shop. Uh, and really get to know my business and my dreams and my goals and like,
00:21:45
Speaker
I think you're a believer in story brand marketing. and so we we laid out the storyboard and and who's the hero and well the customer's the hero, right? Right, right. And I'd never had anything like that. Never had that level of involvement from someone that I was...
00:22:01
Speaker
you signing up with for a vendor service effectively, right? Yeah. Can you just, for those who don't know you and don't know Turnkey, what, just give me like the 90 second version of what service you provide because you're not designing the postcards or the websites or anything. You're
Outsourced Marketing Strategies
00:22:18
Speaker
managing them, right? Right, right. yeah Yeah. so we're basically like an outsourced director of marketing. Okay.
00:22:24
Speaker
So lots of shop owners will work with a website vendor or direct mail or all these different vendors and they'll want to do marketing. But oftentimes what we hear is they just don't know what works.
00:22:35
Speaker
You know, um we'll see a lot of people who say, I want to do this cool, sexy new idea. And they spend all this money and all this time and it flops. And they're like, why did that flop? Or people will say, well, my friend, he does Google AdWords and he does direct mail and he does websites and he does social media.
00:22:53
Speaker
And so I'm going to go do the same thing. And his friend gets a really great result, but he doesn't. And why is that? It's because everything when it comes to marketing, it's a tool. Your website is a tool.
00:23:05
Speaker
Direct mail is a tool. Magazine ads, like you've done a lot in the past, those are tools. They're good tools, Google ads. But just like the difference between a master tech wielding a tool and my three-year-old wielding a tool, the same exact tool, it's who is wielding it in their knowledge base and their experience on if we do this, this way, it works.
00:23:28
Speaker
um So we basically partner alongside auto repair shops and we say, okay, where are you car count wise, revenue wise? Where do you want to get to?
00:23:40
Speaker
Here is what we need to do to get you there. And we're gonna go make sure it happens. So you don't have to worry as much about working with the website company or the direct mail company, or should we put this offer on or that offer? Which one's gonna work better?
00:23:56
Speaker
Which color should we choose? What should the design look like? Is this the right thing to put on your website or should I put this on? We take care of all those little details that often drive shop owners crazy.
00:24:07
Speaker
And we know from our 12 years being in just this industry, what actually works for auto repair shops. And lots of times it's not what you'd think. You know?
00:24:19
Speaker
Well, know that when I joined with you, um, back in 2018, I had had an AdWords management firm or an AdWords firm that I was using for my Google ads and,
00:24:35
Speaker
Uh, every month I got a report talking about how awesome everything was doing and everything was great, but I didn't know how to read the report. It was like, it's like you've got a Pico scope and say, Hey Mike, look at this. Can you believe it? And I'm like, yep, that looks like lines on a shark. Yeah.
00:24:48
Speaker
don't know what the hell that is. um and I just had to take their word for it. And then that's up good when somebody came in and knew how to interpret the data, they're like, you're not getting what you're paying for here.
00:24:59
Speaker
And so I appreciate that that was, I learned yet again through your service that I gotta understand what I don't understand.
00:25:10
Speaker
yeah Know what you don't know. And either you gotta put the time in to learn it or you gotta sub it out to somebody who does. yeah And I bought time too, right? Because I don't have to deal with editing postcards and editing direct mail campaigns and picking carrier routes all that kind of stuff. As long as we're hitting our our inbound call volume.
00:25:29
Speaker
so That's huge. or do you Do you remember that crazy lady with the, I won't say the name of it, but it was one of the magazines locally. And we would have to like, she would call you and call me drunk and beg us to buy new sponsorships and stuff like that. And then her her credit card, our credit card got compromised and it turns out it was her using our company credit card.
00:25:53
Speaker
No That checks out. Yeah, she's she's in jail now. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. But you handed that crazy over to us, my team, and we got to handle it and get calls from her at one in the morning and, you know, figure out, hey, that's not the right ad or, hey, you promised us exclusivity and things like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We took that off your plate, though. Thank you for that.
00:26:16
Speaker
Yeah, you're welcome. I'm still in therapy about it, but you're welcome. That's awesome. um All right, so one of the things that I like to do in these conversations is talk about things that we've done that we've maybe goofed up on or messed up or just blatantly mismanaged.
00:26:33
Speaker
um And so you don't own a shop. Nope. But you see shops and their marketing plans all over the country. what What are some of the most common mistakes that we as owners make with our marketing plan or lack thereof?
00:26:45
Speaker
Do you really want to know? Oh yeah. It kind of hurts.
Marketing Mistakes and Strategies
00:26:49
Speaker
Okay. So the thing that I see all the time. Guilty or not guilty. Yeah. Never have I ever. Never. Oh no.
00:26:57
Speaker
The thing. So you both are good at this, but the thing that I see all the time is a lot of ego. Yeah, for sure. I see a lot of people say, I want to share about how great I am, which goes against our story brand, right? Like I want to make myself a hero and tell people why they should come to my shop because I'm so awesome and they should care about my experience.
00:27:20
Speaker
They should know that my more expensive services are worth it because we're so wonderful. But the reality is that no one cares. They care about themselves and they are busy and they don't have a lot of mental space.
00:27:34
Speaker
How quick can they get it back and how much is it going to cost? Right. Exactly. If you go to the grocery store and you see, you know, oranges that are different, you know, prices, but they look exactly the same, you're going to go for the one that's cheaper.
00:27:50
Speaker
Right. And I'm not saying be the cheaper person, but I'm saying people don't understand how to differentiate auto repair services. What people do understand is price. And lots of people refuse to get to like put anything in their marketing that talks about what their customers actually understand and what their customers care about.
00:28:10
Speaker
So one of the things that we're a big fan of is don't be a discount shop. Don't be a really like, you know, don't go for the bottom feeders all the time, but do give an irresistible offer.
00:28:23
Speaker
Give something that people can see and take advantage of. And I see shop owners all the time refuse. I see their websites. I see their Facebook ads. I see their Google ads. I see their direct mail.
00:28:35
Speaker
And they're not addressing the things that their customers actually care about. They're talking about the things that they want their customers to care about. And then they're pulling their hair out saying, I spent all this money on marketing and it didn't work.
00:28:48
Speaker
Or they create like a really, you know, I've seen this before. People create these beautiful websites or websites that mean a lot to them personally, but don't, again, don't address the needs of the customer.
00:29:00
Speaker
And it doesn't perform how they want it to perform. So there's this dissonance between the end goal that they want versus how to get there, the kind of vehicle to get there. And there's this big gap between either not understanding how to use those marketing tools to get to their end result that they want, or not want not what being willing to except marketing, just the realities of people and humans and how people work and marketing best practices. Like the thing that really makes marketing work is when you make it about your customer and what they care about and what they understand. So if I'm hearing you right, what you're saying is $9, $9 oil changes all day, every day.
00:29:43
Speaker
No, free, free actually. No, no. Thank you. If you're like me, you know there's always hidden revenue in missed maintenance sales or overlooked customer concerns. Detect Auto helps auto shops unlock that revenue by analyzing vehicle service histories, pinpointing maintenance recommendations, and equipping advisors to confidently address customer questions.
00:30:05
Speaker
It's easy. It integrates with your existing software and your team will love it. ah Check out detect auto.com and see how your shop can stop guessing and start selling better service recommendations today.
00:30:19
Speaker
No, know, it's crazy. Like we'll actually see, you know, people will have, um, an oil change. It's not even cheap, but they're putting it on there that people understand they just have a frame of reference.
00:30:32
Speaker
Cause if you were to call a dentist, or you were to call a plumber, let's say, you might, and you haven't used a plumber in a long time, you're not going to have like a real clear frame of reference in your brain of how much it should cost for them to fix your toilet bowl, right?
00:30:48
Speaker
So if they meet you where they're at, like if you go on someone's website and they're talking about how wonderful they are and how, you know, they've been around and for X amount of years and we are just so trustworthy and so valuable, you should come to us.
00:31:02
Speaker
And the next person says, hey, have all these great reviews, you know we're trustworthy and here's you know an offer for you or here's how much it's gonna cost or here's something to get you to pick up the phone and call us that you care about. So yeah, here's an offer for ah free estimate or here's an offer for whatever it is.
00:31:20
Speaker
You're probably gonna go with that one because you understand it more and it's addressing the thing that you care about. and Once you get them on the phone or get them in the building, then you can start value building and relationship building and education.
00:31:33
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. If you're a good shop, it shouldn't scare you. And if you're picking the right demographics to go after. Because it's the bad shops that suck who shouldn't do marketing like that.
00:31:46
Speaker
Because people are going to come in and you're never going to turn them into a customer for life.
Customer Acquisition and Service
00:31:52
Speaker
You hear that, everybody? If you don't like cheap oil changes, that means you're a bad shop.
00:31:58
Speaker
That is not what I said. i said, if you're a bad shop, do you not do a cheap oil if you can't can If you don't feel confident that your advisors can convert people and that the service that you do is so good that people will want to be a customer for life,
00:32:13
Speaker
then that's when I would say like marketing is not a good idea for you right now. Yeah. If you, if you can't convert, if you can't win people over or if you're running an absolute red line and facility capacity and you have no no desire to buy another shop or grow and keep the money.
00:32:27
Speaker
Yeah, totally. Anyway, so you know that I'm not afraid of cheap oil changes. yeah Right now, I think, just so that you know, since we're having this conversation, think my oil change offer right now is like $49 or something. So it's not super aggressive. It's not cheap.
00:32:45
Speaker
But I bet it works still. But I'm doing um'm doing free Diag. I pay my techs, but I don't charge anything to to come in. So it's, you know,
00:32:56
Speaker
if the phone rings and they have a problem with their car we should make it really hard for them to find a reason not to come up to us and so we were at a point uh in late 23 that it was 196 to start the inspection process and there are a lot of great shops all over the country that are the same way um and you can be a really good shop and be very profitable with that methodology no doubt um but For us, it's, well, you know, hey, how much do you guys charge to fix X? Well, what type of problem are you having?
00:33:31
Speaker
Anytime you experience that type of problem, it's really important that you have one of our ISE certified technicians inspect that for you. I'm going to give you a complete written estimate at no charge. Is right now a good time to bring it in? Beautiful.
00:33:42
Speaker
and That is beautiful. Well, it's just not my it's not my brainchild. I got that from Adams Automotive in Houston. um And car count, oddly, goes up. Conversion rate per phone call, oddly, goes up.
00:33:56
Speaker
you're removing the fear factor of you're going to charge me $200 just to look at it. Right. And look, if you're a really good advisor, a really good operator, you can overcome that objection and educate them that what you're doing is not the same thing that AutoZone does. Right.
00:34:10
Speaker
And build that value. And you can still convert 70 or 80% of those, but you're going to lose 20 or 30% of them that have the potential to be great customers. And you'll know, they'll never know that they should have come to you in the first place.
00:34:22
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So I'm a believer in that now. And I certainly get raked over the coals in some of the forums and groups for that. but Yeah, bet. It's been fun, yeah. I'm cheapening the industry. I'm what's wrong with the industry. Well, not really because it's just a different methodology. I mean, so as long as I've known you and your dad...
00:34:43
Speaker
I mean, you are the right shop to go to. So you have an opportunity to bring that customer in and then build the rapport. And you're actually earning a customer, not a transaction.
00:34:54
Speaker
Because I think that that changes in that aspect there, that that... person with that problem in their car is going to I trust these guys, you know, they're, they're not out to take advantage of me and and that sort of stuff. And you're earning the customer, which ultimately is the best advertising you can get.
00:35:11
Speaker
Yeah. and And like in most markets, most of the people who are gonna be listening to this, um If they're listening to this already, that means that they're investing time in their automotive business outside of nine to five for the most part.
00:35:26
Speaker
And so they're probably already above average, right? Um, cause most shop owners are living on an Island by themselves and they're just grinding day to day, trying to stay alive. Right. And they don't know what they don't know.
00:35:36
Speaker
And if you go to his shops, like they're beautiful, they're nice, they're well maintained. You wouldn't walk in and think, man, this is a really cheap shop that does crappy work, that has bottom feeders who come in.
00:35:49
Speaker
You guys are a great organization. And when- Tell me more about me. When customers go there, they're going to feel that, you know? So someone comes in, are you going to get a few bottom feeders? Absolutely.
00:36:01
Speaker
But what I always say is market to the masses, not the asses. You're going to get some asses. I'm putting that on social media after we record. Mark it to the masses, not the asses. Masses, not asses. All right. You have to be okay knowing that you're going to get some people in who are a pain in the butt.
00:36:18
Speaker
What about massive asses? No. It depends who you are. It's inevitable. No, you're going to get some people like that. But you have to be okay with that, knowing, like, you're going to get some people that you want to pull your hair out. Not everybody's going that perfect person, perfect customer, perfect car, perfect everything. That's not what we do. Right. yeah So the reality is is you're going to get some of that, yeah which is fine.
00:36:44
Speaker
Yeah. And they're just, at the end of the day, you know. they're just not your customer. And well, you so that's one of the skill sets that's required of a quality service advisor is being able to separate the wheat from the shaft. Right.
00:36:56
Speaker
Uh, and if you're doing, um, you know irresistible offer type advertising, you're going to pull in some that are not your right customer.
00:37:07
Speaker
Right. And that's okay. You still give them great service and you still, um treat them the way that you would want your mom or your, your brother or sister to be treated if they were somewhere. um And, you know, they they know that they're not right for you when they get that estimate, right? And then we'll just they'll self-deselect.
00:37:24
Speaker
Or they come to your shop and they're like, this isn't the place I want to be at. like Sometimes I've had people walk and be like, oh, y'all are going to be too expensive. And they walk and they can tell. Well, if that's your reaction to walking in the door, probably.
00:37:36
Speaker
Yeah. It's relative. Yeah. you know It's very relative. um
00:37:43
Speaker
Remembering some customer interactions over the years in that way. um So we talked about the mistakes that you see most frequently, and this being creature's ego, we all are.
Decision-Making and Efficiency
00:37:58
Speaker
Tyler, are you willing to confess your sins, evil shop owner? Evil shop owner, Tyler. ah That's a difficult question. And for me, I guess it's... it's kind of analysis paralysis.
00:38:09
Speaker
I mean, um you know, we, we come in, we have all these awesome ideas and I, I like to crunch the numbers and understand and have an expectation. And that was kind of one of the, you know, and it kind of goes in different aspects of, you know, um, so hiring the right person, should I hire that person or should I move a, move a person or, you know, where should that person be in our company? Those sorts of things. Um,
00:38:36
Speaker
Right person, wrong seat type deal? Yeah. Yeah. So I think – We have great people, but we wonder, how can I get the most out of that person?
00:38:50
Speaker
And i let them struggle a little bit too long before I make a correction in, okay, this is the job that you're really good at, so let's concentrate on this particular aspect of the job and make you a superstar there and then do more training to get you up to ah to speed on um other aspects of it.
00:39:07
Speaker
I mean, you a look at what, it you know, advertising. I didn't do it for a long time. And then I ah met Carrie Lynn in Turnkey, and I'm going, you know, this makes total sense. I've sat here forever and just mediocrity and just kind of plugged along. And it's like there's actually somebody that's going to over everything and going to manage this stuff.
00:39:26
Speaker
and let them do what they do and let them you know run with the ball that they're proficient in. And so I don't have to try and do that anymore. Well, what a concept. And how long did that take? So you sit there and you know analysis paralysis of not making the decision quick enough.
00:39:43
Speaker
you know So I guess that's where I would probably start. yeah and I thought about yesterday. My procrastination scale is like way up there. Yeah. So we were all in this class yesterday, and we were talking about procrastination and how to identify it. And they handed out a quiz.
00:40:02
Speaker
And I'm pretty sure i got the high score. I was the winner. I don't know. And you don't want a high score on this. This is a golf-type game. And... But I thought about you during another section of yesterday's class was when Jim was talking about list out all of the things that you do in a given time frame.
00:40:22
Speaker
And then is it the Pareto principle that you get 80% of i think the results out of 20% of the work or whatever? So the top three things on that list are probably 80% to 90% of the value you bring to the to the company.
00:40:36
Speaker
And the other 27 things you have on that list, because we all do so much shit as owners, yeah um is really just filler or inefficient or not the best use of your time.
00:40:47
Speaker
Yes. I think, I mean, talking about like confessions, you said that we might be talking about this. And I was trying to think like, oh, What are the things that I've done wrong? Or what are the things I haven't done wrong? But that was one of the things that came to my mind.
00:41:02
Speaker
It's so easy to just fall in the trap of doing doing something that you feel comfortable with as the owner, but not doing the thing that only you as the owner can do. you know And that's something I see all the time. that's why that's why Turnkey exists.
00:41:17
Speaker
Because so many shop owners, you you know if you value what you do, if you look at what is your time worth, It's not worth half the things probably that you're spending your time doing.
00:41:28
Speaker
When's the last time you hopped in the truck to snag a part real quick. I do. all Well, I shouldn't say i do it all the time, but I do it often frequently, you know, so yeah.
00:41:41
Speaker
ah probably it really depends on where they catch me as I'm running through. Hey, can you run over and grab this? Primarily, it's is they know where I'm at and are you going by there? Will you stop type thing?
00:41:53
Speaker
um And I'm happy to do that sort of stuff. And the reason I do that is because the alternative is probably another couple hours out for somebody else to do that because, you know, It might be 15 miles away where they want that part picked up, and I just happen to be in that area, so why not Well, if you happen to be in the area, Well, drive up and down I-5 all the time. Yeah. I walk out in the shop and like hey, what's going on? I'm stuck waiting on these control arms. When are they going to be here? They're at the dealership. Dealership's next run is not for five hours. Yeah.
00:42:22
Speaker
Someone else in the organization should have already done the math on that and sent a shuttle driver or an Uber or something. Right. But then I just i hop in the truck and go get it. Right. Just to get to keep the flow going.
00:42:34
Speaker
But that's an hour and a half of productive time out of my day. And what's the value of that time? I think Jim said, what's your hourly rate yeah as the owner of the business? What's your time worth?
00:42:44
Speaker
And anything that you're doing that can be hired out for less than your hourly rate, you need to be hiring out so you can focus on those top three things. We've done the math for what's the technician worth. I mean, that's a real easy exercise, but then when you look at what our time's worth and then we're not running the company because we're doing what other people could do. Yeah, guilty.
00:43:02
Speaker
i've I've done that. Because I'm micromanaging my ah mail carrier route selection. Right. Instead of hiring that out to somebody who's a pro. So we're having a conversation with one of other guys when the the Tesla cyber taxi comes out. he says, I want one.
00:43:18
Speaker
he goes, going to give my customers a ride in. I go, why not have your Tesla cyber taxi picking up parts for you? Right. Make a run to all your other stores or go whatever. And so, Hey, Mr. Parts guy, put it in the trunk of my car and let that thing self drive it back to you. Right.
00:43:35
Speaker
I love that. That's not a thing that happens in North Carolina, sir. ah Total Pacific coast thing. You don't have that? No. When it will, I'll buy you one. ah so You'll be the first. Do you have, do you have like Amazon drones dropping packages in your
Future Innovations and Industry Growth
00:43:49
Speaker
backyard?
00:43:49
Speaker
ah well, so I've seen the concept. I haven't seen the actuality of an Amazon drone yet, but um it's coming. I think inevitably it's coming. You have a rear differential dropped in your backyard. you know a quadcopter dropping. If they could do it with you know smaller parts, that would be handy. I'm not sure I want the differential coming down. Right on the roof. Why not?
00:44:11
Speaker
Absolutely. So um we're here in Dallas at the elite event. This is a very much ownership focused training event. um I'm going to be doing five or six events this year. Some sales focus, some ownership focus, some management stuff, and then taking some guys to technical training also. Are y'all, you're going to be at a ton of events this year because that's what you do. Turnkey will be. yeah Yeah. Yeah. I won't be at as many personally, but are you going to vision? Yeah.
00:44:41
Speaker
Never been to Vision. Okay. Never been. And not going this year either. Yeah. so Okay. You know where my heart is, right, at the ASTA Expo. So um i feel like it's kind of like cheating on my girl if I go to Vision. yeah know I can see that. Yeah. But I'm going to Tools in Pennsylvania, um and that's in May, I think. I got to look my calendar. And obviously the Expo in Raleigh.
00:45:07
Speaker
I'll go to Apex again here, obviously where we are now. And I'll probably end up in Houston a couple more times for the Auto Shop Answers program. Have you been down there and checked that out yet? I haven't. it's i've heard I've heard really good things.
00:45:21
Speaker
yeah Well, it's not coaching i like what Elite does. It's more of just showing and explaining a concept and take it or leave it because they're not going to talk to you about on the phone once a week. you know yeah So they're not selling coaching services. They're just showing you the concept and do what you want. Like, that's why i opened on Saturdays is because of the concept that I saw and learned from there.
00:45:42
Speaker
Uh, but I'm not willing to open on Sundays and they are open 363 days a year. um That's tougher staffing. I mean, we've, you know, that was our challenge in 23 is having the right people, you know, and now you're putting another day into that. Your master techs don't want to work on Saturday, or some, most don't want to work on Saturday, you know, so that if you can put that all together, but adding a Sunday to that, wow.
00:46:06
Speaker
Well, so their point is, you know, there are people who want to work on the weekends. Maybe, maybe their spouse is a nurse who works weekends. And so they want to work weekends so that they can have the same day off, or maybe, you They're, you know, avid fishermen or hunters. And when is the lake really busy? On Saturday and Sunday. When is the lake empty? On Wednesday and Tuesday. You know? Yeah.
00:46:25
Speaker
Well, you're paying the rent 24 hours a day. Yeah. And so, know, that's kind of there. is You can staff. You have to pay more to staff for weekends. And if you're willing to pay more, you can be open when your competition's not open.
00:46:37
Speaker
And you can charge more because of you're open when your competition's not open. Yeah. Yeah. you know one of the one of the things they always say is you know the alternator doesn't know that it's sunday when it fails no right um so i i understand a lot of what they say and do and i agree with a lot of it i'm just not willing to do some of it yeah and if i'm not willing to do it i'm not going ask my guys to do it right so just business decisions that you need to make understanding where your customers are and You know, it's it's not that difficult to do. It's just a decision that you're going to do it. And yeah, it's going to cost.
00:47:13
Speaker
I mean, it always does. so But at at the end of the day, if it's better for your company and if it's better for your clientele, why not do it? Yeah. It's like Chick-fil-A. Yeah.
00:47:24
Speaker
You know, they're like, hey, if we stayed open, we'd make entire day's worth of revenue that day. But they choose. This is who we are. And that's okay. And they actually are doing amazingly. There are people who love them even more because of that. Right. Yeah. Um, so are you investing in training for your team at all this year?
00:47:44
Speaker
are doing there? You can your boys to some stuff. Well, we've done the stuff with the boys. and They've come to this. And, you know, so what we need to really do is get them back in to it. And Margaret and are going start rotating. We weren't really lean, so it's difficult to bring three people out of the company at one point, especially since we all work in one store.
00:48:05
Speaker
um My goal for my team is a minimum of 20 hours of education annually per person, every department. um I really believe that, you know especially as complex as our industry is, if you're not training, you're falling behind, you're withering, you're you're going to be a raisin, right? You're just going to wither on the vine.
00:48:25
Speaker
um And so the the challenge that we have as owners is to identify the training that's needed. And so I'm still an advocate for going, you know what, Mike? Yeah.
00:48:35
Speaker
You need whatever. Maybe it's as a tech, you know, we need to put more air conditioning or electrical or whatever and into you as a person. But we need to identify what that training needs to be as opposed to just letting them willy nilly pick it out and to drive and focus that tool in our toolbox because that's what they're there. They're, you know.
00:48:55
Speaker
Um, yeah, so I'm heavy on whatever training we get. I don't care if I have to travel you know, that's just a piece of the puzzle. In fact, a lot of times when you travel, like we're here, we're getting, this is the best training you can get or some of it. And you're not going to get that. If you just wait for it to come to you.
00:49:12
Speaker
Have you sent the boys to fly with the Eagles? I have not. think that's a ah good step for them to get them fired up about management and leadership. They have a ah financial seminar coming into Portland that they're going to go to.
00:49:25
Speaker
And so you know every month we go over the P&L. We go through all the stuff. They see the dashboard numbers that we do within Elite. They look at all that stuff. So this will be a different twist to that. But I think from the fly with eagles, I've heard a lot of real good things about it as far as what it can bring. So San Diego is not far. Is it still so still in San Diego? They moved they had one in Raleigh two months ago.
00:49:47
Speaker
Maybe but'll go to Raleigh. I'll go to Raleigh with them. I'll hang out with you. Well, I mean, so I guess it's Marconi teaching it now, and Matt helps some, and, you know, Darren will do it if it if he's in the area.
00:50:00
Speaker
But I've sent several people over the years, and it's always been very well received. Well, we did the sales advisor, service advisor training. did master's course. Two of our guys went through that.
00:50:12
Speaker
And these guys came out of dealership operations 10 plus years as service advisors in dealerships and they and go they thought they knew it all.
00:50:23
Speaker
And they were humbled when they came back and one of them was... why hasn't anybody ever taught me this? They didn't know what they didn't know you know. And it just set for them just and you sharpened their skills, and i it just paid for itself in spades.
00:50:42
Speaker
yeah I'm going to wrap us up here shortly. I appreciate your time. yeah What's one thing that you're going to do differently this year?
00:50:50
Speaker
Well, as we looked at, you know, this, this whole meeting that was goal setting. Um, and so what I look at that, it's um, it's, You know, there's there's goals that we have that Margaret and i want to do as far as as we're able to enjoy more time than we have. So what's the RV going to look like?
00:51:12
Speaker
We actually have a trip to Africa set up, so we're going to do a safari there, which is going be very cool. But more importantly, from the business side of thing, I'm looking at the continuity of the business and how that's going to continue on and how are the boys going to.
00:51:24
Speaker
be able to transition into more of an ownership role. So I needed to find that path for them on what that looks like, specifically some of the things that you've already done um and, and trying, you know they know, i mean, it's there, but they don't, it's fuzzy, right? They should know that it's not going to be free. They're not just going to be given. No, they, and I, they get that, but they don't,
00:51:48
Speaker
Still, that's not that's not clear, right? So i need to I need to make clarity to that whole thing and what that's going to look like for them and what that opportunity is going to So those are the two of the things that some of that procrastination stuff, maybe I'll work on that. You can work on the procrastination stuff next week.
00:52:08
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Ma'am, what are you doing different this year? um Man, there's a bunch of things that we're doing differently this year. One thing – I'm going to put my money where my my mouth is and I'm going to make a list of all the things that I'm doing that aren't worth my hourly rate and truly commit to delegating those or deleting them or whatever it is, but not doing those things like hopping in the truck you know or whatever it is.
00:52:37
Speaker
that I could spend that time moving my organization as a whole forward or investing my people rather than doing the thing that's more comfortable, easy, feels like it's, well, I'll just do it and then I won't have to pay someone or outsource it or whatever it is that actually eats up my time that, you know, prevents me from doing the things that only I can do.
00:53:00
Speaker
i think that's a good commitment. yeah Who's your accountability partner for that? Your husband? No, um i have a coach. Okay. Yeah, I have a coach and I have a group that i that I'm a part of.
00:53:11
Speaker
ah you are Neil is in a it's a marketing agency 20 group. Oh, cool. So I was wondering if you had something similar to that.
00:53:23
Speaker
Yeah, it's similar. It's not just for marketing agencies, but it's for small businesses that are in like a similar revenue bracket. Okay. Like Vestage or something? Yeah. No, it's it's like, it's actually, it's called Elite.
00:53:35
Speaker
Oh. Funny enough. Yeah. So it really confuses my team. Because I'll be like, I'm going down to Elite. Which Elite are you going to this one? And I'm like, oh, no, no, no. The other one. The other Elite.
00:53:47
Speaker
But before you wrap up, actually, there's something. So confessions, I totally forgot to do something in the beginning of this meeting. What did we forget? First all, well, there's no whiskey. thought and I thought part of this whole thing was you're going to be drinking whiskey. We were drinking last night. I mean, I can drink right now if you want. I mean, it's it's afternoon. we can drink.
00:54:04
Speaker
Well, I got you some Kansas City whiskey. Oh, my goodness. Look at that. Look at that. And this will be the last recording of the day. goes It goes downhill from here. West Bottoms Whiskey Company.
00:54:21
Speaker
Blended malt whiskey. Nice. The West Bottoms is a part of Kansas City. yeah yeah Awesome. Thank you so much. You're welcome. That's awesome. This is how you win your way into Mike's heart. With booze and poor choices.
00:54:34
Speaker
All right. Have a great day, guys. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, thanks, Mike. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Confessions of a Shop Owner, where we lay it all out. The good, and the bad, and sometimes the super messed up. I'm your host, Mike Allen, here to remind you that even the pros screw it up sometimes. So why not laugh a little bit, learn a little bit, and maybe have another drink?
00:54:53
Speaker
You got a confession of your own or a topic you'd like me to cover? Or do you just want to let me know what an idiot I am? Email mike at confessionsofashopowner.com or call and leave a message. The number is 704-CONFESS. That's 704-266-7000.
00:55:08
Speaker
three three seven seven If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, or follow. Join us on this crazy journey that is shop ownership. I'll see you on the next episode.
00:55:47
Speaker
Just.