Transcript
Zachary Jeblonski: Hello, hello. Welcome to Midlife's Crisis. I'm Zach. I'm joined again by Charles.
Charkes: How's it going, Zach?
Zachary Jeblonski: It's going well. Wow, the waveform is weird looking on a the Zencast that we use. Huh, it must have just changed the way it displays. That's right. So welcome to The Struggle Bus, episode one. and I'm just kidding. That's...
Charkes: You are not kidding. this is gonna This is going to be an adventure week we can all get through together.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yes. I guess before we get started, i wanted to get some clarification. i feel like I'd asked you maybe on the podcast a couple of weeks ago. so are you a Knicks fan or are you not a Knicks fan?
Charkes: I am decidedly not a Knicks fan. So I actively root for the other New York team.
Zachary Jeblonski: Okay.
Charkes: And i i say that yeah I say that in air quotes because they're not really the other New York team.
Zachary Jeblonski: Okay. The Nets.
Charkes: I know the deal, guys. I'm aware that the Nets are more a New Jersey team and more an ABA team. Nobody considers them New York's other team. I get it, okay? But when I moved to...
Zachary Jeblonski: Why does Brooklyn Mets, why are they considered the New Jersey team?
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh.
Charkes: They were from New Jersey. They moved to Brooklyn in like 2000 something, 2010, 2008.
Charkes: I don't know, sometime in there. But I also moved to Brooklyn in around that time. And so I was a season ticket holder for the Brooklyn Nets, the fledgling in Brooklyn.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh.
Charkes: That's their first four or five years in existence. So i amm I am one of the only, maybe the only diehard Brooklyn Nets fan. so we are we are you know quote unquote crosstown rivals with the knicks so i actively root against the knicks all the time having said that
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, okay.
Charkes: I also live very close to New York City, and I lived in New York City for a long time. So I got that it was a cool thing that the Knicks were in the finals. I can appreciate for you know the the decent New York Knicks fans that they had something special happen.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: And even for the indecent ones and the wild ones that they they got to do something they weren't sure they'd get to do in their lifetime. So I'm aware of the magnitude of what's going on.
Zachary Jeblonski: Even the indecent ones.
Charkes: you know i'm not I'm not celebrating with you guys, but I see you.
Zachary Jeblonski: Okay. All right. i Now like I get it. I understand now. So cool. Cool. Cool. Yeah. I like it. I was not aware of all that Brooklyn brooklyn Nets at lore. i Having not grown up in this area, I just kind of always knew them as a Brooklyn Nets. didn't realize they came from New Jersey.
Charkes: Yeah, you're probably one of the few people who may actively associate them with Brooklyn. I think everybody else associates them with New Jersey or with just not deserving to exist, which I think are both you know hurtful but but reasonable takes.
Zachary Jeblonski: Really? Wow, man.
Zachary Jeblonski: Well, let me ask you this. Do they play in Brooklyn? Is there a Brooklyn stadium?
Charkes: Yeah, there is. It was right across from my apartment for those years when I was a season ticket holder. Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Hey, look, they're already way more respectful than than the New York Giants, for instance, that don't even play in New York.
Charkes: That's another take, which I also have space for. I think that's going to get us unsubscribes, though, so I'm not going to co-sign it.
Zachary Jeblonski: All right, like, fine, fine. I guess I won't have any more spicy sports takes because I'm very knowledgeable about sports. i don't know if you know this. I know a let me, let me be.
Charkes: No, I think the only thing is only one of us should have each spicy sports take. If we both came on here and we're like down with the Knicks, that's a, that's a band. That's an unsubscribe. If we both are like down with the Giants, that's a band. That's an unsubscribe.
Charkes: But if we, otherwise it's healthy crosstalk, you know, that's just, that's just how a podcast works.
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah That's true. and
Charkes: I think.
Zachary Jeblonski: And let me be clear. I am in a diehard Knicks fo household. So therefore I am a Knicks fan.
Zachary Jeblonski: my, wife my, uh, my wife's been very happy lately. Yeah, there you go.
Charkes: Happy wife, happy life. So.
Zachary Jeblonski: all right, let's get into it. this is ostensibly a magic podcast. and, uh, we're here talking about magic. So, uh, you want to talk about the games we had kitchen table? Yeah.
Charkes: Yeah, I'd love to.
Zachary Jeblonski: All right. So we have our kind of our new addition to our our pod came on through and with one of our recurring members of the pod or not podcast pod, but commander pod, you're you know, not to be anyway. So we got two games and I believe, and the first one was was interesting. That's I once again piloting my new Boros Planeswalkers deck.
Zachary Jeblonski: Now, let's see how well I can remember things. I, o you oh, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Charkes: Okay, so our our longer standing pod mate was playing a proxy deck that was headed by Shorakai Genesis Engine.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yep.
Zachary Jeblonski: yep
Charkes: And then our newest pod mate was playing, was that Ramos? Was playing Ramos Dragon Engine.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, that was the first game. You're right. It was Ramos.
Charkes: And then I was playing Rocksteady from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles set, and I forget his surname.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Right. Right.
Charkes: Uh, but I remember what he does and it was relevant.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: Uh, so let me look up that card text while Zach continues to set the scene.
Zachary Jeblonski: He's he's a big...
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah. So, yeah. So, yes, it was it was an interesting game. i I'm trying to. Well, basically, the Ramos player got off to a really, i would say, a pretty steady, but but a very fast start. And unfortunately, that as goes in commanders, if you.
Zachary Jeblonski: If you get off to a very fast start and you continue that transaction that trajectory, people tend to to kind of gang up on you. And unfortunately, that's kind of what happened. So he got knocked out first.
Charkes: Well, okay, let's I just want to set this in a little bit.
Charkes: So let me just read what these commanders do.
Zachary Jeblonski: Okay.
Charkes: right, Bebop and Rocksteady is who I played. One hybrid Golgari, hybrid Golgari. Whenever it attacks block or blocks, sacrifice a permanent unless you discard a card.
Charkes: And it's a 7-5 for three mana. So that's that's what's going on there. It gets out early, hopefully gets some easy swings, and it hits big for seven. So three hits, you die. Okay, that was my deck.
Charkes: Zach, why don't you read your commander and I'll pull up the other two.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, so I have Eartha Jo as my a pilot for my Boros Plains Walker's deck. Everybody knows Eartha Jo. I mean, come on. and I'm just kidding. she's She's an uncommon commander from Outlaws of Tundra that I have never seen once, except for when I play it. But she's two red white. When she enters the battlefield, you create a one one red mercenary creature token with tap target creature. Your control gets one zero until end of turn. Activate only as a sorcery. And that token is very standard across the outlaws of Thunder a Junction set. So if you have any cards that make a mercenary, it's the same thing.
Zachary Jeblonski: But the big thing is whenever you activate an ability that targets a creature or player, copy that ability, you may choose new targets for that for the copy. So the whole idea is it's it's full of Planeswalkers that have at least one activation of their abilities that involves a target. And therefore, if I have my commander out, they will that that activation will get doubled.
Zachary Jeblonski: and a lot of Boros commanders have either target deal damage to player creature or target destroy something or target creature gets one, one. so that's like the main thrust. It's like all the planeswalkers kind of do one of those things.
Zachary Jeblonski: and then do you want to bring up short? do you want me to talk about Shurikai?
Charkes: Well, let me do Ramos because I pulled it up, and then you do Short-Eye.
Zachary Jeblonski: Okay. All right.
Charkes: Okay, so our newest podmate was playing Ramos Dragon Engine, 6 colorless mana, legendary artifact creature dragon. It's a flying 4-4 with, whenever you cast a spell, put a 1-1 counter on Ramos Dragon Engine for each of that spell's colors, and remove 5 1-1 counters from Ramos, add double Wooburg to your mana pool.
Charkes: Activate this ability only once each turn.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: So this is... I think one of the more, this is among the commanders that, scary players play scarily. cause that, that ability is just kind of wild, right?
Zachary Jeblonski: That's the podcast title.
Charkes: Like make, the that the
Zachary Jeblonski: That's it right there.
Charkes: take off five counters, make double Woburg. That basically means cast whatever you want for free, under some conditions. Uh, so I don't know, like, I don't know if it's necessarily, it's not the most notorious combo commander I've ever seen, but it's, I do think, I think of it among the class of notorious commanders.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, it is it is. It is an incredibly easy commander to go infinite with. Because basically, if you have a Wooburg spell and a way to bounce that spell back to your hand to redo it, and that bounce doesn't require more than like five mana, then you basically go infinite.
Zachary Jeblonski: Like right down there.
Charkes: But it does say only once per turn for the double Wooberg ability, which I think I wasn't aware i wasn't aware of during the game.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, does it? Oh, I'm thinking of something else.
Charkes: So this goes back to my inability to satisfactorily read and appreciate card text.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, my bad. Okay. I'm thinking it i'm thinking of a different commander. Whoopsie. Yeah, you're right.
Charkes: Yeah, maybe I was too. And maybe maybe that bad read also factors into how the game went. But I'll let you read Shorakai and then we'll kind of set the scene.
Zachary Jeblonski: It's still really scary though. It is.
Charkes: Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah. Yeah, Shorakai, classic Azorius Commander. Shorakai Genesis Engine 2, white, blue, legendary artifact vehicle. You pay one tap, draw two cards, then discard a card, make a colorless pilot creature token with this creature, Cruise Vehicles, as though its power were too greater and has crew eight.
Zachary Jeblonski: And then a little fun, fun little tidbit, it does say on the bottom of the card, Shorakai Genesis Engine can be your commander. But recently they edit, they eroded that out. so now it doesn't say that because as of edge of eternity, legendary vehicles can be your commander.
Zachary Jeblonski: So you got a little fun tidbit there. yeah, this, this, this commander is also on the list of scary commanders to be honest. uh, you know, short guy.
Zachary Jeblonski: It can be fair, and I think our Podmates deck is pretty pretty fair, but this this commander can also be really unfair. Kind of almost as like every Azorius commander can be.
Zachary Jeblonski: But it's just a really great value engine. Just card draw engine, the whole the whole thing. Makes tokens, draws your cards.
Charkes: Yeah, it's like a combination of a Nazorius value pile, but also kind of an artifact value pile, which I guess in some ways makes it easier to play fairly because you can do you can like you can build half your deck around each of those things, and it's not as oppressive in either direction, if that makes sense.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: But yeah, so okay so those are the commanders. That's the pod.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: I feel like we started off pretty slow. but in starting off slow, that was an advantage for me. so I was playing the three mana commander who hits for seven.
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah
Charkes: So we had a few turns where players didn't have things on the board. So I was able to attack for seven commander damage, uh, at two opponents, not Zach on it. Ironically, I hit Zach last, uh, and Zach got maddest, which is also fair. I get it.
Zachary Jeblonski: Whoa, I don't, what?
Charkes: Uh, I, what, I, well, you were the loudest about being mad unless everybody else was just having, having silent animus about it.
Zachary Jeblonski: Wow. I didn't realize we were measuring decibels now.
Charkes: and Sorry, maybe that's just part of how I play command.
Zachary Jeblonski: I, would for the, for the record, i was what you would call politicking. That's all I'm saying. but yeah, you did get out some early hits. and I was, I was off to a slow start in that game for sure. So, I, I had a lot of time to like, kind of get my act together there for a while.
Charkes: So the Ramos player was setting up in the first three or four turns, but setting up very well.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah. Yeah.
Charkes: So on board, he already had a toque counter doubler, right?
Zachary Jeblonski: Yes.
Charkes: So that anytime he played a Wooburg spell, he would then generate 10 counters for his commander. uh, that he could immediately, well, not immediately if he could only do it once per turn, but he could use to use five of, to get double work back.
Charkes: So he had some pretty good resource management on the board. He was in a pretty good position so that by turn, i don't know, four or five, when he did play Ramos, the first turn he had with Ramos out was, was very impressive and scary.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, it was. it was it was It was a really nice setup.
Charkes: Uh,
Zachary Jeblonski: like I could tell that he got a good opening hand and had just a lot of good draws. And it was it was like impressive to see Ramos get so big real fast. And I was like, oh, boy.
Charkes: Yeah, so he he presented an immediate threat. I'm trying to remember what Shorakai's board looked like early. I think Shorakai was just doing Shorakai stuff.
Zachary Jeblonski: Sure. Yeah.
Charkes: There were pilots out, there were vehicles out.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: I think he had a couple of vehicles that he had a Sword of the Animus out, so he was ramping a little bit. I would say that Shorakai's game plan was certainly underway, but I think in but I think Ramos was the first commander to pop off.
Charkes: So Ramos looks scariest first.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yes.
Charkes: And then Zach's board looked pretty scary too, because it was full of planeswalkers and my board didn't go wide.
Zachary Jeblonski: and
Charkes: So it's, it's not like we were, were kind of trying to decide each turn. Is there a planeswalker that collectively the rest of the table wants to take down or take out? are we, are we scared of an any of these ultimates?
Charkes: I think by that time you had three out, maybe four out and you had a couple of blockers, including your commander.
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah for Yeah, for a long time I had three out, and all three of them were kind of mediocre Planeswalkers. A lot of my deck is mediocre Planeswalkers, but these three were like, I had basically, without going through each Planeswalker specifically, I had one that just did Drumi cards.
Zachary Jeblonski: That's all we really did, with no ultimate that mattered.
Charkes: Thank you.
Zachary Jeblonski: one that pull or drew me or let me fetch mountains from my deck but it's l ultimate only cares about mountains entering the battlefield and I had run out of mountains in my deck so that was kind of useless and then like another whatever planeswalker that didn't really do much so for that segment of the pod yeah like I had planeswalkers that you guys were knocking down but none of them were really crazy that comes later But yeah, i would say i would say in the beginning phase, it was the Ramos player and the Shurikai player really kind of the ones kind of back and back, you know, going back and forth because the Shurikai player was the first one to get really domed by Ramos.
Charkes: Yes. and did Oh, right, because Ramos also gets huge. That's right.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yes, Ramos got huge. And that's when that that's when things got real, real quick. Because, like yeah, there might be the threat of like an ultimate or a quasi ultimate thing going.
Charkes: Yes.
Zachary Jeblonski: But Ramos got like 20 power. It was like more than 20 at one point. And he's flying and I can't stop that.
Charkes: Right. So on my board, i i basically have my commander and a token maker so that because my commander has to, because I have to sacrifice a permanent when I attack or block, I just need something that gives me a steady supply of sacrificable things so I can attack every turn my commander.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: And I had some funny stuff in hand, but nothing, especially game warping, although one silly thing did happen later. Okay, so we're looking at this board state where Ramos is now at lethal or threatening lethal power because i think he right he can generate mana on demand so he's never really tapped out and he's got a full grip of cards because i don't remember why but he drew a bunch of cards one of those turns so we're on like turn six or seven i've hit the ramos player twice for seven oh i also have a rogue's passage which we've talked about one of my one of my uh generic all-stars uh
Zachary Jeblonski: Yep.
Zachary Jeblonski: I, yeah, I don't remember how. Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah. Rose passage is great.
Charkes: So I'm at a point where Ramos player has cards and has the availability of mana, but looks like their next turn might end the game from my perspective. So I figured, I think I just have to try to get him because otherwise i don't know how this is going to go. And short card looks scary and Zach's boards looking kind of scary, but I don't,
Charkes: At least I feel like those are, i don't know, more linear threats. Like whatever thing Zack plays, he's going to be able to do twice maybe, but it shouldn't be an ultimate because he didn't have any counter explosion on board.
Charkes: And Shorkai didn't have enough pilots and or immediate threat vehicles.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: Although there was a, what's the untap your artifacts thing?
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, unwinding clock.
Charkes: Yeah, he did have an awakening clock out, so he was getting he was drawing a lot of cards. You know, he could activate short, high every turn.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: Not great. So yeah, not great. Kind of not great all around, which is, you know, the kind of commander game you like to see.
Zachary Jeblonski: Not great. All around.
Charkes: Yeah, just like it just threats everywhere. Threats around every corner. That's the name of a magic card, which I think is funny. Anyway, I swing to take out the Ramos player.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, nice.
Charkes: the ramos player kind of holding my breath, fearing interaction, but he doesn't have that type of interaction, so he gets eliminated first. just Just wanted to clarify that it's not because we were picking on him.
Charkes: I thought he was going to murder us, so...
Zachary Jeblonski: I just want to, I do want to go on the record that I forced the interaction before your turn because I i played right before your turn. I played, what's her name?
Zachary Jeblonski: Uh, Lauren of the third path.
Charkes: Right, yep.
Zachary Jeblonski: And, uh, when she enters, destroyed target artifact or enchantment. I tried to destroy Ramos and that pulled out the, the interaction. So I think you just didn't have anything left when it got to your turn.
Zachary Jeblonski: you, yeah, you closed the deal though.
Charkes: Yeah. And so, yes. Yeah. And I kind of felt like, yeah, that's right. And that, that, yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. Cause I think that context mattered. It was kind of one of those things where I think there was a collective feeling. And certainly my feeling was this might be our shot.
Charkes: Like, I don't know what cards throw on those players going to get or what's going to happen. If they get another turn, they could probably take one player out to eliminate some interaction and then also be able to hold up some other stuff.
Zachary Jeblonski: Right.
Charkes: So I kind of felt like this might be our moment. uh, to get this done. So we did great. Okay. Now, it's back to the shore Kai player who now looks like an Omega level threat immediately.
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah Yeah.
Charkes: I guess it was like, they were just kind of very close and Ramos was kind of in the lead, but now no Ramos means shore Kai is in charge.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: Uh, so there was just like a lot of fear. and I'm trying to remember what happened on that turn right after Ramos got eliminated.
Zachary Jeblonski: i don't remember I don't remember. I mean, well, there was at least one or two turns where the Ramos player was just starting to chunk now because he had like, i I forget the name of all these these things, but he had the the vehicle that made all our other artifact creatures plus two plus two.
Zachary Jeblonski: He had the angel that gives all the artifact shroud. it was just really difficult to interact his board.
Charkes: right
Zachary Jeblonski: was, I was like frantically searching for a way to get rid of the angel because if I could get rid of the angel, then a lot of my planeswalkers could start picking off different things on this board.
Charkes: right
Zachary Jeblonski: and I, yeah I know, I just remember him, he chunked down my pod. I would think I was down to like one. planeswalker or maybe even less uh because he was chunking those down then hitting me in the face and things were going pretty good and then i had my explosive turn and i don't remember exactly how it all went down but basically the big thing was i i got a oog in the spirit dragon down and i was able to ult it immediately
Charkes: yes.
Zachary Jeblonski: because I had some of the pieces set up so I could ult him immediately. and that all is you gain seven life, draw seven cards and puts up to seven permanent cards from hand on the battlefield. So I dumped five planeswalkers, I think on the battlefield and then two lands or something like that.
Zachary Jeblonski: And I just filled my whole board with planeswalkers. but I mean, I, I guess I don't want to get too close to the end of the the match, but, you know, uh,
Zachary Jeblonski: Unfortunately, a lot planeswalkers don't really help with flying artifact beaters like that are shrouded, that are also shrouded. So like I'm like, wow, I have all i have nine planeswalkers. None of them help me right now. like Yeah, so I think, he I mean, he just eventually just beat us down, right?
Zachary Jeblonski: like Because if I remember correctly, he wins, right? The shortcut player.
Charkes: He does win, but there's there's a little there's a little more interplay that I wanted to bring up.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Okay, go ahead.
Charkes: so there was a
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, yeah.
Charkes: We did eventually get rid of the angel, and I think you did start picking off some of his pieces.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, I did.
Charkes: and i I think there was a quasi-board wipe this game that
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: that hilariously am i remembering wrong was there no board wipe i know there was i know you discarded you discarded a full board clear you discarded on doing version at some point but i thought somebody played something that basically wiped the board
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah, yeah, yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: there was a, there was a pyroclasm. Did you do the pyroclasm? Was that yours?
Charkes: that wasn't me but i think that's what i'm remembering
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, yeah. I didn't, well the Pyroclasm couldn't have been, well, Pyroclasm is red, so it wasn't you.
Charkes: was that So was that from the i guess that was from the Ramos player before they left?
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, was i did i specifically did two I specifically didn't play two different Border Wives. I didn't play the Undo Inversion because obviously went to Grave, and then I also didn't, Ugin the Spirit Dragon also has a negative X ability that's a Border Wife, and I did not do that.
Charkes: Right. Which he didn't do yet.
Zachary Jeblonski: Because I was like, I wanted to get the pod mate that got kicked out early back into another game. I didn't want to board wipe unless the board wipe was going to put me like really in a good position.
Charkes: Right.
Zachary Jeblonski: And Ugin the Spirit Dragon's board wipe is symmetrical. So I would wiped out all my stuff too. And I was like, i'm not doing that to him.
Charkes: And I had a board wipe in hand from early in the game that I didn't want to fire off because I was kind of, it it was kind of expensive and it would have cost me my commander, which wouldn't have been a problem, but I didn't, it was a little too expensive for me to fire off and recast my commander in the same turn, which I would have had to do.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: So I think I was kind of waiting until there was a spot in a game where that felt like a sensible play pattern and that just never arose.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: So, but anyway, Short card player, you know, he can kind of what with the unwinding clock out, he can draw cards and generate tokens to crew vehicles.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: And of course, his vehicles are safe from creature interaction when they're not creatures. So I think that the thing that put them over the top for the massive turn was did they just play what's the what's like the blue guy blue artifact all your artifacts wake up cyber drive awakener think that was the turn yeah that was the overrun that came out the turn so they he swung for lethal on both of us uh and i played what i guess will be my card of the week just because we talk
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh yeah. Yeah. That's right. I remember that.
Charkes: a fair amount about not loving free interaction.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: And I guess I wanted to i want to have a brief side conversation about whether we think this counts in the class of cards we shouldn't play, because it certainly surprised our pod mate, and maybe Zach a little bit.
Charkes: And it just was a card that I had heard of, and I wanted to put it in a deck, and so I had it in this one. But I played Snuff Out, three and a black, but if you control a swamp, you may pay four life rather than pay this spell's mana cost.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah
Charkes: Destroy target non-black creature, it can't be regenerated. So on that seminal swing, I took out cyber drive awakener. Uh, this was helpful because it took away flying from some of those artifact creatures and meant that we could block some stuff.
Charkes: but I think it ultimately didn't make a difference.
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah.
Charkes: We both still lost and hilariously, the fact that I paid for life instead of black man, I meant that I still died to the damage that still got through.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah. Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: That's funny. I didn't even realize that was part of that that interaction.
Charkes: Uh, yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, I go back and forth on the whole like free spell thing.
Charkes: But...
Zachary Jeblonski: like I personally don't run them. i don't I don't like them as a game design mechanic. But at the same time, I don't feel as strongly about other people running them as I used to.
Zachary Jeblonski: I now more or less take that into my calculations. Like if I look at, if I ask somebody, are you tapped out? My next question is always how many cards in hand, you know, because I'm like, I do just because you're tapped out. I do in the back of my head, like keep in mind, I'm like, yeah, we still got the selecting squad out there. There's still this out there. There's still that out there.
Zachary Jeblonski: I think, I mean, I think as with all casual, uh, whiny magic players, I think the ones that bothered the most are the blue counter spells. Like I'm like, all right, man, fierce, fierce guardianship. Cool. You know? whereas I feel like less bad when somebody deflecting swats or in your case snuffs out. Cause like, all right. Yeah. I don't know. That's just purely mental. It is not meant to be logical or rational in any sort of way. but yeah, that's where I'm at with free spells nowadays.
Charkes: So I will say that I fully intend to take Snuff Out out of this deck. I guess it had been a while since I played a free spell, especially one that wasn't. I played Redirect Lightning a while ago, but that's not free. That's just one red and lose some life.
Charkes: So it's just a very cheap spell.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, no, that's yeah. Yeah.
Charkes: But I do feel like the reaction pod mate had was a reasonable one that I just, I guess because I don't play free spells a lot, I never get to see the reactions of other players to them.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: But I think it it kind of made me realize that that was, I don't want to say it was like out of the spirit of the type of game we were having, but I guess to the to the extent that like the cards you play help to shape the experience you're trying to have, I think it is not representative of the experience I'm trying to have.
Charkes: So i I enjoyed it.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, like, yeah,
Charkes: It did its thing. Good job. But i think it I think it doesn't have a spot in any of my decks going forward.
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah, yeah.
Charkes: It reminds me of a a card that... i put i Sorry, I'll just get this in but while it's on my mind.
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah yeah
Charkes: It reminds me of a card that a one of my former podmates used to play that let him... He played this at a kitchen table game. don't know. One of the first, one of the first six months I was playing magic, but the card text, and we, we later find out it didn't really work this way, but the card text said, you may find a card that you own and put it in the game.
Charkes: And so he played this card and he just got some other card from his collection, played it.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, yeah.
Charkes: and I was so mad.
Zachary Jeblonski: Was it Wish?
Charkes: I don't remember. it was some card, but he just he just like got some other card and just put it on the table, and I was like, that is what?
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: and and And he said, i think he afterwards said something similar to what I'm saying, which was like, all right, look, even if even if that is how it works, and that is a fair thing to do in a Magic game, that's not the reaction or the experience I wanted.
Charkes: So he took that out of Dex, thankfully. So yeah I think I'll be doing the same Snuff Out. Sorry to have interrupted.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, no, no, you're good. Good. I just have because I have my own personal experience with this. When I first started playing magic, I am. I one of my longest standing decks that's still together that I'd still enjoy playing is my mono blue sphinx deck.
Zachary Jeblonski: And I got somehow in a pack or something, but I got misdirection and I thought it was the coolest thing because like this is like way back early in my magic career when i didn't really have my own like playing philosophy worked out or just didn't think about it.
Zachary Jeblonski: and I was playing in a pod in another state that I play in sometimes. And I just completely destroyed this guy with a misdirect. Like it was bad. like it was like I forget. I don't remember exactly what happened, but basically through the whole game and it caused me to win. And he got pretty upset about it because, you know, he saw was tapped out. Let me read and risk misdirection for everybody.
Zachary Jeblonski: It's three blue, blue instant. You may exile blue card from your hand rather than pay misdirections. Mana costs change the target of target spell with a single target. If I remember correctly, he was trying to path one of my Sphinxes or maybe my commander. And I redirected the path onto his like commander or something like that.
Zachary Jeblonski: And I just remember that moment of him getting very upset about it. And I just like, oh, maybe I should think about these free cards a little bit. And then that ever since that moment, I kind of had just stayed away from them.
Zachary Jeblonski: but I did allow me to get on my self-righteous pedestal, which was great because some months later, some months later, who in that pod would cast their own free spell that ruined the game for me, but that player. so I was like, and I, and I got to do the lean in. I'm like, huh, it feels pretty good to cast that free spell. Doesn't it? So, was a little funny interaction, but yes, in general, it's,
Zachary Jeblonski: You know, I mean, I'm not a game designer, but i what i i think I think magic is better when tapping out is a very difficult like decision you have to make. like Because you when you tap out, like you are sending the signal that like I got nothing, right? like And I think that's...
Zachary Jeblonski: I think that's like a really interesting push-pull of like, do I not play this threat in my hand that uses all my mana just because I don't want to give the signal to my opponents that I've got nothing, you know?
Zachary Jeblonski: And I think free spells kind of throw that all out of the window a little bit.
Charkes: Yeah, I think I'm like waiting for my seminal moment of getting caught with a free spell to have a more nuanced take on it.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, okay.
Charkes: Because i like i I hear what you're saying about tapping out signals that you've got nothing, but I think this kind of plays into my feeling about Commander in general, which is play the player less than the situation.
Charkes: And you know this kind of goes back to our longstanding conversation about whether game memory should be a thing or not.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: But I kind of tend to think about what I think the what What do I think is the possibility space of what this player can do from this position? And certainly how much mana they have open is part of that.
Charkes: But I don't know, some players you just have seen play busted cards and you expect are more likely to have a busted card. And I try to just think about, like I was in i was in another game recently where...
Charkes: a player just had a little too much open mana. And I was, I was actively thinking I want to hit everyone, but I want to make sure I don't hit that guy too much. Cause I feel like there's some sort of fog or some sort of effect that would make it that would kind of blow me out, but also would keep me from doing damage to everyone else, which I need to to try to win this game eventually.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: So I i was actively thinking, all right, let me just go very softly over here and hard over here and see if I can get this through. And I did. And then the next round I swung at that person and they ink shielded and then they won three turns later.
Charkes: So it's like, I think part of it is like, it is nice to, I think it's kind of a shortcut, right? The like, that player is tapped out, they can't do anything.
Charkes: Often that is the case, but that's not always the case. And I think that magic is kind of built around that's often the case, but not always the case. And, you know, players are more or less likely to put that stuff in their decks or have access to that stuff or know about that stuff.
Charkes: And so I think part of it is like part of playing, part of getting familiar with a pod, getting familiar with players. It's kind of, thinking through the pattern of when, how often do they have that type of stuff? And when I'm looking at their board, you know, how, how much does that play into what I think they might be able to do here?
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah no and i understand and i understand the design space of it too i mean like i think what many bracket four cdh players would say to what i'm saying about like tapping out signal signifies i think in a lot of those spaces they would say that you're only looking at half the picture like you have to not only look out look at if they're tapped out you have to look at how many cards in hand too right like you have to look at the cards in hand as another resource that is usable And so I can understand from a magic design point of view why they went this direction of like, like, you know, a lot of these free spells require you to exile another card from your hand if you want to play for free. Or in the one cycle, you have to have your commander in play in order to play these spells for free. So like,
Zachary Jeblonski: They want you to look kind of like one or two levels deeper really see if somebody really has an answer. Because if somebody's got two cards in hand, tapped out, and no commander on board, I mean, you're talking like six, seven spells in the entire game that they could play out of 50,000 cards. So you just have to take that chance that they don't have that specific thing or they do or whatever.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, I get it. i get it from all angles. I'm still in the, I don't think free spells, I don't think free instant interaction, i don't think is necessarily conducive to the kind of game I want to play. I guess it's best way for me to put that.
Charkes: Yeah, and I guess the conversation you just had is also part of why I'm okay taking it out of my game without hesitation, right? Because I don't, it certainly is not my expectation that at our kitchen table game, someone should go through that thought process at any point in any of our games.
Charkes: Like, we're we're trying to get in two games in three hours and not playing optimally and not thinking to that level about any specific game.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah. Yeah.
Charkes: interaction in the game is kind of part of that of what i see is the way i would like the games to go you know i think well you know i want us to all build fun decks and have a good time and think through deck construction and think through our turns but like not hyper focus on optimizing every aspect of gameplay and to that extent yeah
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah
Zachary Jeblonski: And I just, I just like, I just like the, i like forcing myself to hold up mana. And then when I do get somebody, i don't know, this is just a me thing, but i feel less dirty.
Zachary Jeblonski: If I'm like, you saw I had open mana, you saw I had cards and I did something with the cards and open mana. There's no like, obviously this a game is, this is kind of a game of trickery in a way, but like, there's no trickery in that you knew the resources I had and you took the chance to do something to me and I'm responding to that. And to me, that just seems like a really clean interaction. There's not like nobody, they might, that person might be surprised by the card I play, whatever the effect is, but they should not be surprised at my ability to do so. Right. And that's, I think for me, like when I've gotten upset, this is, it's been a while since I've gotten upset about a free card, but like when I used to get upset about free cards, I'm like,
Zachary Jeblonski: Like, I didn't feel like I got outplayed. I just feel like I got outspended, you know, because I'm like, well, how was I supposed to know you had this? You had no untapped mana and that yada yada. so yeah, yeah, it's a, it's an interesting topic. I'm sure.
Zachary Jeblonski: I'm sure. you know, it's just a, it's a casual versus non-casual mindset, right? Like it's like I, the entire formats would crumble if free spells didn't exist. so yeah, I, I'm not advocating for the removal. It's just not the, not the direction I'm going.
Charkes: Yeah, and I mean, i'll I'll put a bow on my perspective on it, I think. It's like, i I think what you said there at the end is kind of the key, right? It's like, you want to feel good about the way that you're winning or the way that these interactions go.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: And so I think a lot of this is like, what do I feel good about? What do my opponents not feel good about? Let me make sure that I'm making the choices consistent with kind of what I value about the game. Cause some people just want to win at all costs. And I like, I get that. That's, you know, that's, there are pods for those people.
Charkes: I just don't think that that's, you know, that's not the vibe I would like to have it at the pods that, you know, certainly not our kitchen table pods. And when I'm out, I think to the extent that I get to choose my pod, I would rather choose a pod. That's not kind of in that head space.
Charkes: Uh, so yeah, I, I think there's a, there's a pretty good argument consistent with that, that free spells are,
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: unless they're very highly restrictive. The free spells aren't certainly compatible.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah. I mean, my only...
Zachary Jeblonski: My, I, my last little tidbit on this is a little anecdote is i had the distinct pleasure when I was, when I used to play a lot, when I living in Atlanta and playing in Atlanta store, I really liked, was playing against a player who he liked the sandbag, meaning he would, he would, he would say his deck is only so powerful, but it was always more powerful than he made it out to be.
Zachary Jeblonski: And, uh, I was getting the upper hand on them and I cast at a spell and he attempted to cast fierce guardianship. Right. and And, I got upset because i'm like, that's another free spell. you know, blah, blah, blah. And I'm just going to read it in case any of our listeners are lucky enough to not have to run into this.
Zachary Jeblonski: but it's two blue instant. If you control a commander, you may have cast a spell without pains, mana cost, counter target, non-creature spell. So, you know, I play my spell. He's like, ha ha, you know, I have no mana, no, but I have a commander. So I'm going to counter that.
Zachary Jeblonski: And I'm and like, I'm like, and I'm getting upset and I'm starting to like take my spell, put it in the graveyard and I'm about to go onto my next thing. And I go, wait a minute. Let me see that quick guardianship. It's non creature spell.
Zachary Jeblonski: I was attempting to cast a creature. I'm going to put that creature right back on the battlefield, buddy. And I made him put it to the, I made him put it to the graveyard. i was like, you attempted.
Charkes: Nice.
Zachary Jeblonski: but actually, no, I didn't because he couldn't have done that. But I, but he had to bring it back to his hands and I'm like, well, we all know you have a fierce guardian now. So that was my one moment where I'm like, get that free crap out of here.
Zachary Jeblonski: but I did.
Charkes: I'm glad you got to have that moment with it. You guys had a dark history together. I'm glad you got the upper hand that time.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, yeah. no Look, like if we're doing a ranking of free spells that do tilt Zach, it's it's fierce. Guardianship is way up there. Yeah, that that that whole idea of casting free cells just because you have a commander. That's like, come on. That's like a bridge too far.
Zachary Jeblonski: But all right. You want to move? We'll move on to the next game.
Charkes: Yeah, let's do it.
Zachary Jeblonski: All right, we got the next game. I'm playing Witherbloom. I don't remember the rest of his words, but he's flying death touch 4-4, 6 green, black, and he gives my instant sorceries affinity for creatures, and I just did that all from memory.
Zachary Jeblonski: I hope that's what the card actually says, and our our normal, I shouldn't say normal, our longer standing pod mate was playing, let's see, if I'm going to I'm going to pull it out of memory. I can do it. I can do it. He's playing Lord of Pain.
Zachary Jeblonski: Right?
Charkes: Yes, yes, I think that's right.
Zachary Jeblonski: That was Lord Pain. Yes. Ha ha. I got there. Yeah,
Charkes: And then our newest podmate was playing one of the Omnaths. I think it's four-color Omnath.
Zachary Jeblonski: he's playing four color.
Zachary Jeblonski: I'll
Charkes: And I'll...
Zachary Jeblonski: pull it up if you need.
Charkes: Okay, yeah. If you mind, then I'll pull up mine.
Zachary Jeblonski: Four. Omnath, Locus of Creation. Red, green, white, blue is his cost. And when he enters, draw a card. And whenever a lane enters battlefield under your control, you gain four life. If this is the first time this ability has resolved this turn, if it's the second time, add red, green, white, blue. And if it's the third time, Omnath deals four damage to each opponent and each Planeswalker you don't control.
Zachary Jeblonski: And now but we' the i'll talk we'll talk about that deck in a sec if you want to introduce the deck you were you playing.
Charkes: Yeah, let me just read Lord of Pain right quick. So Lord of Pain 3, Black Red, Legendary Creature Human Assassin, 5-5 with Menace. Your opponents can't gain life, relevant. Whenever a player casts their first spell each turn, choose another target player. The Lord of Pain deals damage equal to that spell's mana value to the chosen player.
Charkes: So that's pretty good.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: And that also came into play. And I was playing a a commander I've played before, but with a different deck. So I used to play her as a Dragon's Approach commander.
Charkes: But this time I was playing her as a Dragon's Approach effect from different cards commander. And that will that will make sense in a second once I pull her up.
Zachary Jeblonski: Okay.
Charkes: I've got to remember her
Zachary Jeblonski: Was it Cus-Turk?
Charkes: Kara, Sir Kara the Bold.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah. Yeah, it's her car. Yeah.
Charkes: Kara, sir. that's not how you spell it.
Charkes: Oh, come on.
Charkes: my search thing has her deck list in here and it's not just pulling up her name.
Zachary Jeblonski: I can pull it up for you if you want. Okay.
Charkes: I got it right here. Sorry about that. all right. Sir Cara the Bold, three red red, human knight, legendary creature. Whenever she or an instant or sorcery spell you control deals damage to a player, exile the top card of your library. You may play that card this turn and you can tap for her to deal one damage to any target.
Charkes: So obviously with Dragon's Approach, Dragon's Approach deals damage to each opponent.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yep.
Charkes: So when you cast a Dragon's Approach, you get to exile the top three cards to your library and cast... One of them, you still have to pay for it. So it kind of has the Chun-Li problem. But in general, it's like, it's kind of a storm or storm in a couple of turns type commander where you hope to have the mana to cast two or three or four dragons approaches at once through, you know, mana acceleration or cost reduction, and then burn out the table that way.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, in my in my earlier days playing Magic, there was a player I still enjoy playing with a lot at the store who's very good. His decks were pretty well-tuned, and he had a Sir Kara deck that was pretty pretty devastating. If he got a if he got it going, it it it doesn't quite storm, like you said, but like it gets the game closes out real quick a lot of times.
Charkes: Nice. Yeah. I want to ask you more about that later because i'm curious. I haven't ever seen her anywhere else.
Zachary Jeblonski: I, am unfortunately, I could not tell you anything about what was in the deck because it's, we're going on three, four years ago. but there is, but that commander is a commander that I do respect.
Charkes: Fair enough.
Zachary Jeblonski: Like if I see somebody pull out Sir Kara, I go, okay. All right. Like I, I, I, that's, that's in that pantheon of like, not like Omega level threats, but definitely like, this is a, a, a deck that you have to pay attention to.
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah. But yeah, so it was it was nice to see you pull Sirkera out and was like, wow, I haven't seen card in a while because I think she's a little underplayed.
Zachary Jeblonski: I think she's a little under the radar a little bit. Yeah.
Charkes: Yeah, it felt good to bring her back backck into the fold. but so this was so I think the most important setting that's the most important piece of information for this game was that are the friend the the friend who played Ramos got to watch us finish out that game for about between an hour and 90 minutes.
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah
Charkes: and I think psychologically that probably played into his deck choice and certainly his mindset going into game two, which was
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: oh
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, man. i wish this was I wish this wasn't a problem in Magic. I wish there was a way to solve this problem in Magic. I really do.
Charkes: I actually think it was, i I thought it was a proper setting for game two.
Charkes: And I thought it, I thought it, I actually thought it was fun. i kind of enjoy this aspect of it.
Zachary Jeblonski: I just hope that he had fun.
Charkes: Except the waiting.
Zachary Jeblonski: That's what I'm getting at.
Charkes: Yeah. yeah
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, yeah.
Charkes: yeah Yeah. Yeah. No, I get that. That's fair. So yeah, I would say this game. So Sir Cara costs five mana. I'm not doing anything for the first few turns except ramping.
Charkes: I'm trying to remember what you, you're trying to get tokens on the board and ramping.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, I'm, yeah, like, yeah, I'm doing, I did nothing for so long in that game, just because Witherbloom needs a bunch of tokens to make himself cheaper and then to make the spells cheaper, so I just, I was just ramping with Shigeki over and over again.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: I guess Lord of Pain is also kind of expensive. So that player was also ramping.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: And Omnath, I'm trying to remember whether he got any support pieces down or it just felt like he got Omnath out really fast.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, he did. He was going. He was going. No, I'm not. It was going very quick because he had, he started with, I know early on he got a way a wayward sword tooth which is an extra land return.
Charkes: Yes. Yep.
Zachary Jeblonski: And I don't remember all the value pieces but he was he was valuing out pretty bad like he was going. And I made the joke earlier that like hey I used to play against a four color on that then he filled it with extra turn spells and then he played an extra turn spells like oh oh no.
Charkes: Oh,
Zachary Jeblonski: I would say the thing though, I'd say the the MVP of that game, even though I do have a car of the week, but I'm not considering it the MVP. The MVP is actually Lord of pain that game, I think.
Zachary Jeblonski: Cause and because because I kept all the life gain turned off and I'm not as big thing as the life gain. cause he even had a Zoran orb down, one point, you know, so he could have gained even more life and played more lands and yada, yada, yada, and over and over and over, you know?
Charkes: Right.
Charkes: because did he have on-board graveyard recursion for lands? I feel like that happened at least once.
Zachary Jeblonski: He, I feel like he did, yeah, he did Splendid Reclamation at one point, so he sacrificed all his lands, splendid them all back, they all come back untapped because he had, Amulet of Vigor.
Charkes: I'm trying to remember how.
Charkes: Hmm.
Charkes: Oh, right, his turn one play was Amulet of Vigor, right? That was... I think that's how I... That's right, that's what happened. That was the first... When player's been sitting and then on turn one they drop an amulet of vigor, you know you're in for it.
Charkes: that's
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, you know you're in for it.
Charkes: I think that can be your first sign that this is going to be a long night for you.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, I was like, i i I was just joking around around that Omneth deck. And then he started playing all the pieces that I'm very familiar with in the four color Omneth deck. And I was like, I was like into myself. I didn't quite say it out loud. i was like, oh, no.
Zachary Jeblonski: i was like, oh, no. I know it's i this thing is this is going. And i was like, literally, Lord of Pain is the only thing that was like stopping him from going crazy. It was that. And the Lord of Pain player had a card draw Punisher on board.
Zachary Jeblonski: and it was like those two things combined complete, not shut off the Omnath deck, but like kept the Omnath deck like somewhat subdued, you know?
Charkes: Yes, that's right.
Charkes: Oh, wait, I might... Was I playing something else? Because I think we actually got in three games this night, and Sarkar was not the deck I was playing, because I think I played her last.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, we did get three games in. We did get, yeah, we did get three games. I'll, i'll we'll go back to the other game.
Charkes: Right, okay, I was...
Zachary Jeblonski: We'll go back to the other game in a sec, but I do want to finish this Omnath game.
Charkes: Yeah, Well, I think I wound up winning this game with a different commander, so I want to point out why that happened. Because I was like, I don't think, I think I won this game now that we're talking back through it. And i was like, but Turkara didn't win.
Charkes: Now I remember what happened. Sorry about that.
Zachary Jeblonski: No, I, yeah, no, I, won this game with wither balloon.
Charkes: Well, you won the last game with Witherbloom. I think I won this intermediate game with Wraith, Vicious Vigilante, who I will just read.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yes.
Charkes: She's one white blue.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yes.
Charkes: Double strike, human detective hero. She's a one-one. but she's got double strike and she can't be blocked. So that will be relevant in a minute. Uh, so that's who I was playing.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, so you were playing wraith in this, in the Omnath game.
Charkes: So,
Charkes: yeah. And so this will, now that we're talking back through it, because this is a therapy session.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, you're right. It was Wraith.
Charkes: Now that we're talking back through it, uh,
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, it was Wraith. Yeah.
Charkes: all these details become relevant. Okay, so Omnath is going crazy. Lands on lands on lands, beasts on beasts on beasts, or or elementals on elementals on elementals, but being kept in check because of the no life gain from the Lord of Pain.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, yeah, yeah ye yep, yep, yep.
Charkes: And also being pinged a little bit because of the card draw punishing by Lord of Pain.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yep, yep.
Charkes: So Lord Pain's thing... He's trying to get everybody to take damage kind of all the time. So he's got, at so at one point he had two card draw punishes out. But I think early in the game he had one out.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: So, you know, slowly life totals are kind of going away. But Amnath is the the clear, obvious threat. Okay, so please proceed.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, oh, Charles. We are. man, these games are totally mixed up because I don't think I played with a bloom into Omnath, right?
Charkes: Yeah, you did not. Yeah, you played Witherbloom in that last game where I did play Sarkara.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: I don't even... Let's get to that one later.
Zachary Jeblonski: all right. So but yeah, let me table the wither bloom and let me tell you what I was playing.
Charkes: Do you remember what you did play this game?
Zachary Jeblonski: I was playing sin. uh, sin spars fear is punishment.
Charkes: Oh, yeah, that horrifying monster.
Zachary Jeblonski: Hey, how dare you?
Charkes: That's right.
Zachary Jeblonski: didn't even play sin.
Charkes: That that lovely horrifying monster.
Zachary Jeblonski: she's, they are delightful.
Charkes: Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: They have no eyes. sin spires punishment is, uh,
Charkes: Wrong. they They only have eyes for you, Zach.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh yeah. Uh, four black, green, blue legendary creature, Leviathan avatar flying. When sin enters or attacks, exile permanent card from your graveyard at random, then create a tap token. That's a copy of that card. If the exile card is a land card, repeat this process. So it's soul tie reanimator, uh, that will become important later. it's Cause I, I, or do you want me to get into what I did in this game?
Charkes: Yeah, I think we've set... Let me just again apologize to those listening. we We kind of screwed this up. Okay, so let's set up the actual pod. All right, this is game two after a very long game one where the player who is now playing Omnath had to watch us play for at least an hour, maybe longer than that.
Zachary Jeblonski: Okay. Yep. Yep. Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: Again, apologies to that player. we that that was It was unfortunate if that happened. We will work towards not having that happen again, but justifiable Omnath rage led to this moment.
Charkes: So we've got Omnath going... crazy early in the game. We've got Lord of Pain keeping life gain in check, doming us for spells, the first spell that each of us cast gets hit sent to somebody else's face.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: We've got Sin, a deck that I've seen in person. I don't know whether whether our podmates have played, but whose's whose game plan is to
Zachary Jeblonski: Uh, the, our longer standing one has seen it. Yeah.
Charkes: Yeah, whose game plan, from my perspective, is chill and ramp and then reanimate horrendous, awful, evil stuff from the graveyard. So, San, I know, is going to be a problem at some point, but right now, I can't see past on that face-punching.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yes.
Charkes: And then I've got Wraith, my equipment Voltron deck.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: who if i can get some stuff on the board is capable of killing someone because she can't be blocked she's got double strike but i don't think the game's gonna last that long okay proceed please
Zachary Jeblonski: So, you know, Omnath player doing Omnath. We've kind of just we kind of discussed what he was up to and how he was really going. I mean, he was he was directing most of his ire towards the Lord of Pain player because that was the player very very clearly the one that was most stamping down his deck.
Zachary Jeblonski: and it's, uh, I'm going to read this.
Charkes: Oh yeah, how do we almost forget this?
Zachary Jeblonski: The, the cost is black, black, black, black. black black It is six black pips. And when it enters, if it was cast, each player exiles all but the bottom six cards of our library face down.
Zachary Jeblonski: And at the beginning of my of your upkeep, draw a card. So it is my like, hey, I'm not going to win the game with this trajectory that's going. So that here's my nuclear option. And then then I might have a chance of winning at that point, right?
Zachary Jeblonski: Because I just have to make sure everybody draws more cards than me, basically. So I was way away from being able to have six black pips. That was not going to happen. But what I did have was a one with the multiverse in the graveyard, which is an enchantment that's six blue blue.
Zachary Jeblonski: You can look at the top card of your library any time. You can play lands and cast spells from top of your library. And once during each of your turns, you may cast a spell from your hand or the top of your library without paying its mana cost. And so that's in the graveyard.
Zachary Jeblonski: And then I draw into... a land that I thought was gonna be a bigger hit, but I've never really seen anybody play it. And I think it's really good, especially if for a deck like this, Shifting Woodland.
Zachary Jeblonski: And when it enters, yeah, when enters the battlefield, it's tapped unless you control forest.
Charkes: Oh, yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: I had a forest. Tap, add green. So it's a really good land. just It comes in untapped pretty much all the time. But the important thing is it's got Delirium, two, green, green. Shifting Woodland becomes a copy of a target permanent card in your graveyard until end of turn. activate only if there are four more card types among your graveyard so i had met delirium uh restriction so i had it become one with the multiverse and then from my hand played just doomsday excruciated for free which is a cast and so the trigger happens and i wiped out everyone's decks but the bottom six good luck and because like i i was i knew that like
Zachary Jeblonski: I was nowhere near being able to like, when was like so far behind, I failed to draw any ramp. Like it was, it was a, a rough game. So was like, when I got all these pieces set up and I realized I could do it, I was like, I'm jamming this so hard.
Zachary Jeblonski: It's like, but yeah, that's what happened. And then I died and then you,
Charkes: I mean, it was beautiful. feel like my visual of this is like, you know, there's the meme of the person flipping the table. So this was that, but imagine the other now, instead of the scene being over, everybody else just like moving to the floor and trying to find the six cards that they can put into a hand and and continue the game.
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah.
Charkes: Like we were just like, okay, that happened, but we're not, it's not actually over.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, it is. i I understand why a lot of people get upset about cards like this. There's another card called World world Fire that I have run in my decks that I've made people upset. I understand because it it does kind of like.
Zachary Jeblonski: invalidate everything that's happened prior to that effect happening. So I get that. but at the same time, like I can't begrudge or like, I feel like I can't begrudge somebody from like pulling out one of these nuclear options if they know the game is really not going for them, you know?
Charkes: But Worldfire destroys the board, right?
Charkes: I think there was actually a board wipe in this game that were... I'm trying to remember how it played out. but Because the Omnath player had so many elementals that I think the threat of lethal was imminent.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yes, the the Lord of Plain player played a blasphemous act.
Charkes: But...
Charkes: Yes, that's right. Okay, so we kind of cleaned up the board, I think, and then you went Doomeday Excruciator pretty shortly after that.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: So it wasn't...
Zachary Jeblonski: Yep.
Charkes: The Worldfire effect was the... You know, we kind of had... just like the force happened over two events, right? Like board wipe and then hands, you know, and then deck wipe.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: Right. So that's, I, we got to this weird, bizarre state kind of in, in those two steps, which made it kind of magical.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yep.
Charkes: I didn't like, it didn't, I thought it was, I thought it was incredible. Like it was certainly unlike any game I'd ever played. so, but we, we kind of had to figure it out from there. so, uh,
Charkes: Yeah, I don't even remember what I drew. But what happened next was the Omnath player also flipping the table. So I think the Lord of Pain player still had a card draw Punisher out.
Charkes: lifetime Life totals were kind of low because you know we'd all been getting burned a little bit by lord of Pain stuff.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, right. That's what he did. yeah, yeah. yeah
Charkes: And so the Omnath player played a card that had everybody discard their hand and draw cards.
Zachary Jeblonski: You had time twister, right?
Charkes: Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So he said time twister. I just want to point out, I didn't know what, I wasn't familiar with this card, but it sounds like an extra turn spell, right?
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh.
Charkes: So I thought that when he cast his spell, he was basically just going to win the game by taking an extra turn, making a bunch of elementals and killing everybody. But he was like, and then you two die. And think it's just me and Charles. And I was like, what are you talking about?
Charkes: So, but instead you can read time twister if you like.
Zachary Jeblonski: I think it was time twister. And if it was, that's such a baller move because time twister is a power nine card and extremely expensive. No, it's not a power nine card.
Charkes: Time is stir
Zachary Jeblonski: It's just the one that's not in there. But Tyrim Twister, the eroded text is two and a blue sorcery. Each player shuffles their hand and graveyard into their library and draw seven cards. So it's a wheel. It's a blue wheel.
Zachary Jeblonski: And it grabs the graveyard with it. So we didn't die automatically on not being able to draw from the library because we had put that graveyard in there, but we died like immediately from the card draw punishment.
Charkes: Because at that point on board, there were two single life or damage pingers for each card draw.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Charkes: And so my life total was just barely above the threshold. and Okay, so there was also a Lord of Pain trigger for this, because Lord Pain, I guess... Oh, yeah, I think our friend Blasphemes acted and then recast Lord of Pain.
Charkes: So he's got Lord of Pain on the board. so he yeah he sent the Lord of Pain damage at me. So I was at 20-something life, so I just survived.
Charkes: But he and Zach and zach were both under 14. So when they took two for each card draw, they died.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, we died.
Charkes: But that also meant... that the card drop pingers died. So I was actually sent down to one life, but there was no pinger on board. But they still, but so our our newest pod mate still had to turn. And I was like, all you have to do is burn or any hasty creature and I'm gone.
Charkes: but they didn't have bird or a hasty creature left.
Zachary Jeblonski: I know they didn't have it.
Charkes: So then it gets back to my turn. and I still had a swift foot boots around. So I had swift foot boots into commander, into voice of victory, which I just had, I redrew cause it had been removed earlier into, I don't remember some other equipment that buffed my commander, but I was able to swing for enough relief. Well, because again, she can't be blocked she's got double strike.
Charkes: so that was just a, that was a wild, but so fun game.
Zachary Jeblonski: You guys said you wanted a quick game and I gave it to you.
Charkes: we yeah Yes, mission accomplished all the way around.
Zachary Jeblonski: nothing
Charkes: Yeah, and in fact, that game was so fast that we got in a really quick game three. And this is where Witherbloom shone. I think you should feel free to just talk about Witherbloom and what you how you feel about it, whether you like it, dislike it, whether you want to keep playing it, because I think it did the thing that it does in that game.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah. So for context, Uh, whether, you know, and this is, this will hopefully let some come context to why, like, I'm, I'm, I don't know if I'm gonna keep it around and I'm leaning towards not at this time, which, I've played Witherboom three times now and I've never lost with it.
Zachary Jeblonski: Like it's it's at that kind of level. But at the same time, I don't think it's necessarily like a bracket four contender or it's certainly not CDH contender. Basically the way the deck works or has worked in every single game I played is like you kind of just do nothing. You just ramp and you just chill.
Zachary Jeblonski: When you wait for your moment to strike, basically, you basically just try to build up a poor state of creature so that with bloom comes out cheap. And then you just got to make sure you have like one protection spell and then one additional spell to make more tokens and then just create this snowball effect.
Zachary Jeblonski: and That's more or less what happened. i I created a bunch of tokens with pest infestation, which is just a artifact and enchantment removal spell, but I make pests with it. And then I went, casted with a bloom the next turn. Then we did a mass mill spell where I got zombies off the mill. So now I have pests and zombies. And then after that, it was, it was kind of like game over because I stripped everyone's hands with a mass discard spell and then just beat everybody down with tokens.
Zachary Jeblonski: But like, as I'm explaining this, it's like, it's not much different than the other previous two games I played with it. Like it it kind of does this thing. And it's really easy to do this thing. Like, I don't feel like I am a master piloter. it just, it is the thing that it does.
Zachary Jeblonski: And it's like, well, but Zach and Modi just does the things when you do it. I'm like, yeah, you're you're not wrong about that. Like, I understand that there's some some level of hypocrisy here. I'm just trying to figure out like what it is that that like, I don't know, like, I just like it doesn't feel like a unearned win. i don't know how to explain to pass that.
Charkes: Yeah, it's interesting. like I definitely have a different perspective, but kind of to the point we were just making about free spells. it Magic, maybe magic in general, but certainly commander in specific. its It's just vibes. like
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: The whole point is to play the stuff that you like and have fun playing it.
Zachary Jeblonski: Hmm.
Charkes: You want to win the way that you like. You want to lose the way that you like. You want the experience to be as much... what you would like it to be as possible. So I get it. Like, I i support you not playing Witherbloom anymore.
Charkes: Although I will just say for the listeners, as I've said to you, I think there's a little bit more skill here than you're letting on. Like, you we could have all, like, I had an explosive turn with Sarkara out. i I was able to impulse draw into longshot Rebel Bowman, who we've talked about several times before.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yep.
Charkes: One of our podmates, in fact, asked, wait, is he the secret commander of this deck?
Zachary Jeblonski: Yep.
Charkes: I said, no, but I mean, he does make all this stuff better.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Charkes: Uh, so I had a turn with long shot out. I had over rational out and I had, I probably could have won that turn, but I got interacted with to bring life totals a little lower, but keep me from winning that turn.
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah
Charkes: And then Zach was able to recast with a broom, but he kind of, Like in between the the pests and the zombies, there was a board wipe that stripped his board of all tokens. So he was able to rebuild basically in a turn such that the next turn he could play Witherbloom and win the game, which I think is like there's some there's some deck construction stuff in there.
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: Right. Like you have to be it's not every deck can recover that quickly, but yours did. And from that position, you were able to kind of storm ahead. So i I think it's more skill based than you seem to feel it is.
Charkes: But I will also say you do not seem to appreciate that about the game. So having seen you have that reaction more than once, I get it.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, it's just because it's not stormy. It does. It cannot. You can't technically storm with their balloon because the pips will eventually stop you. So it's not stormy, you know, it it it but it does border on storm and it borders on that free spell conversation we had, like where it's not quite just basically having an omniscience in your command zone, but it's pretty close.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, I don't know. I, you know, we'll see. I mean, part of it is that you know, if I'm gonna be perfectly honest, part of it is I saw an article. it wasn't on EDH rack, but I can't remember where, but somebody was talking about they built Marin as a creatures only deck.
Zachary Jeblonski: And I was like, Oh, and then I kind of like gold fished it myself. And I was like, Oh, this seems like really cool and interesting. So that's part of it is like, I have another gold guard deck sitting in the wings. I was like, Hey, Hey buddy.
Zachary Jeblonski: Hey, you want to, know you want to play me? yeah, so like, and I, know, I'm pretty big on just trying to have one deck of each color combination at this point, but we we'll see, maybe, maybe I'll try and get one more game in it.
Charkes: you want a spot. Okay.
Zachary Jeblonski: And if I still feel the same way, then, then maybe that'll be the deciding factor. but yeah, I, I have to use the restroom. So are we, are you good with the ending in here?
Charkes: We're good. Yeah, we're running long. i'm I'm happy we were able to get this in I'm happy we were able to but eventually remember the games that we played. In that other game, I think the other pod mates were playing Killian, the new Killian from Strixhaven, and I forget what our newest pod mate was playing.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yes. Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: He was playing Saskia, the four color commander.
Charkes: Was it Sasuke again? Okay, yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yes.
Charkes: So, yeah, I mean, fun fun games. It was a fun night. Glad we got to talk about it. Let me just say before we get out of here, I'm really enjoying the Marvel cards. I haven't gotten in a game with them yet because I'm trying to build nine decks at once and I'm trying to go through all the new cards and kind of fill up
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: with enough Stapley stuff to make it happen. I fully intend to play all nine of these decks by the end of this trip that I'm on. And so I look forward to checking in either next week or the week after with how that's gone.
Zachary Jeblonski: Okay.
Charkes: But yeah, I'm really excited about the new set. I pulled some really sweet cards, including some really beautiful art on some of them. So yeah, it's been pretty good.
Zachary Jeblonski: you
Charkes: pretty pretty good
Zachary Jeblonski: you Are you planning on building the Grixis Doom?
Charkes: No, I think so. The decks I'm building, I'm going to read them out.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Charkes: Shang-Chi, Martial Mentor. i Niko Minoru, Runaway. Killmonger, Scourge of Wakanda. Ironheart, Clever Champion. I'm not going to read what any of these do because if you're curious, you can look them up.
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah
Charkes: Colleen Wing, Street Samurai. Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. I just pulled that one and looks cool. King T'Challa. And, oh Monica Rambo, I forget what her subtext is. And Stick Fearless Mentor. Those are just the cards that I i pulled.
Charkes: And they're going to make a a pretty sweet team for me.
Zachary Jeblonski: Okay.
Charkes: So I'm very excited about it. i look forward to to filling you guys in on how that goes.
Zachary Jeblonski: Nice. I think I might build a new Doom. i The Grixis pre-con commander guy. But I'm going to go fish that. I'm probably going fish that later this week. But all right, cool. You ready to wrap this up?
Charkes: I sure am.
Zachary Jeblonski: Cool. I look forward to hearing about Marvel stuff on the next episode. But thanks for joining me.
Charkes: Yeah. Thanks for having me back. This is a blast.
