Transcript
Zachary Jeblonski: I started the music too early. Hold on everybody at home. I gotta do it again.
ciderspence: Let's leave that in, too.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, that's good. That's Dan.
Zachary Jeblonski: right. Welcome back. You've heard my voice before, but this is Zach and I'm joined again by Charles. This is Midlife Crisis.
ciderspence: How's it going, Zach?
Zachary Jeblonski: Uh, it's going pretty good. so I know you're a basketball fan and, uh, my wife is also a basketball fan. Well, specifically a Knicks fan. So I've actually been watching a fair amount of basketball recently.
Zachary Jeblonski: have are you, who are you rooting for in the the finals here?
ciderspence: I bet you have. Yeah. I'm not the Knicks, so.
Zachary Jeblonski: oh you're, what you're rooting for the Spurs. Okay.
ciderspence: Yeah, I can either confirm nor deny. If they weren't down 2-0, I might confirm. But for right now, i will I'll just keep my my cards close to the vest. it it It has been a rough few days in my household for watching basketball.
Zachary Jeblonski: I can imagine. Yeah, we I didn't watch the first game because I had an internship the next day, but I watched the second game and that was a that was a doozy. And yeah, you know, it's like, you know, I'm a I'm a you know, the most casual of basketball observers. And, you know, it's hard sometimes for me to like look at that game, be like, wow, they really blew it on that last shot.
Zachary Jeblonski: because it's, you know, it's every shot leading up to that last shot too. Right. but yeah, that last couple seconds of that, of the second game were rough.
ciderspence: Yeah, I mean, both of those games were pretty rough. I feel like, yeah, it's it's hard to feel worse about a basketball game, I think, than and you'd feel about game two.
Zachary Jeblonski: Uh,
ciderspence: I mean, it's happened.
ciderspence: I've seen it happen, but not in a while.
Zachary Jeblonski: It was a good game, though. You got to give it that. I mean, it was a good game. it was a back and forth. There wasn't a blowout or anything.
ciderspence: It was close. Both teams had stretches of really strong play. Yeah, it was very entertaining.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah. and and i And I get now the the fear over Wemby. I get it. Like, you know, the man is large and he makes shots.
ciderspence: He is large. He has made some shots. Yeah, I mean, he definitely has a lot of potential. It seemed like it was going to be realized earlier in the postseason sooner than later, but now we're we're back to later.
ciderspence: you know It's okay.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, I, I, yeah, and I know.
ciderspence: He's he's very young.
Zachary Jeblonski: I, I, I think there's gonna be many close games to come, but I think him as a player, once again, knowing very little, a little about basketball, I'm like, oh, this, this, he just needs some more, uh, battle experience.
Zachary Jeblonski: You know, like there were some questionable decisions he was making and I was like, that that'll get ironed out over the years.
ciderspence: Yes, I agree about the questionable decision making. Again, that ties into youth and experience and he'll he'll get some eventually.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yep.
Zachary Jeblonski: Speaking of questionable decision making,
ciderspence: There it is.
Zachary Jeblonski: Do to talk about some games we've played?
ciderspence: I do.
Zachary Jeblonski: Okay. So I have just the, I have our kitchen table games and then I have one game on Tuesday since, well, I guess for the last week. And we haven't, we haven't reconvened for a podcast and in some time.
Zachary Jeblonski: and my memory is a little hazy on the games prior to this week. So do you want to start with the the kitchen table stuff?
ciderspence: Sure, let's do it.
Zachary Jeblonski: All right. So yeah, we had we had an a newer player that we met at a store join us. So that was nice. We had a four pod on kitchen table and hopefully everyone had a good time.
ciderspence: it was a nice return. We we had been doing this I don't know, once a month-ish for probably a year, maybe a year and change. And then we kind of had some disruption to our pod, and we were able to get another full pod game in for the first time in a while. Felt good.
ciderspence: It was nice to yeah nice to get some games in, get some chat.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, it was really nice. And i think i think the yeah I think the games were good. They weren't lopsided. Well, the second game was a little bit more lopsided, but I think the first game was, yeah, I think it went well. you know So I guess to start us off, my my pet deck lately has been this new red-white Planeswalker deck that I made.
Zachary Jeblonski: And to give full credit, i discovered this commander with this theme on EDH rec. They have like a running series of like, I forget what they call it, but basically people submit creative ideas for decks. And this was in one of those like weekly or Africa health and they put it out bulletins. And I was like, huh?
Zachary Jeblonski: I didn't notice that. Huh, that's cool. And then I'd like the more I kind of like went into that space. It's been a really nice creative space for me. and this is a good example of a deck that I'm really enjoying. I've played it twice now and I haven't won either time, but it's like, it's been, it's been a lot of fun though. And that's always, to me, that's a sign of a good deck is a deck that you have fun on when you, even when you lose, you know,
ciderspence: Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: And it's like one of those things where i'm like, I'm just excited to get game three in with the deck, even though I haven't won with it. Let's go. You know, like, but the, the commander is an uncommon from Outlaws Thunder Junction. I swear, uncommon commanders, like, there's this, they just do something to me until they sometimes because I'm like,
Zachary Jeblonski: uh, you know, nice 20 cent commander. but it's eartha Joe frontier mentor. And, uh, when she enters, you make one of those one, one red mercenaries that were all over Atlas on a junction, which have tapped target creature gets one Oh activate only as a sorcery. But the second part is the big thing for, for eartha Joe is whenever you activate an ability that targets a creature or player copy that ability, and then you may choose new targets for the copy.
Zachary Jeblonski: and it's planeswalkers. It's super friends because all planeswalker abilities are abilities. So as long as they're targeting, they're getting copied. so just full of red, white planeswalkers that for the most part have a target.
Zachary Jeblonski: I included a, a few additional planeswalkers that don't target, but are just so powerful that like it kind of want them like, who can either storms is in there.
Zachary Jeblonski: you know he he doesn't target but he's just so good you kind of have to have him in a planeswalker deck but yeah it's it works about as well as i think it would work which is i play planeswalkers i i get scary because people because planeswalkers are scary and then i get beat down and i die and it's fun it's good time
Zachary Jeblonski: what was uh yeah
ciderspence: Yeah, I mean, that's that's how that game played out, as I recall.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, no, I mean, basically both times I played it, I just I keep playing planeswalkers.
ciderspence: but
Zachary Jeblonski: People keep killing them, which is fine. no problem there. And then eventually they whittled my health down and then I die. It's like that's the that's the game plan. I came really close and just to give a sneak peek on my Tuesday game, which was this deck is the same time.
Zachary Jeblonski: So I guess I'll maybe I'll meld these two games together a little bit. I came really close to ulting eye of the storm or you and i the storms, my Tuesday game, which is, I started seven has negative 11.
ciderspence: Yeah, go for it.
Zachary Jeblonski: As you search your library for any number of colorless non land cards, exile them and shuffle until i end of turning my cast those cards out paying the mana cost. So basically you just grab all your colorless cards out.
ciderspence: Right.
Zachary Jeblonski: So I came close to ulting him, you know, well, I think what I like about this deck a little bit more than the last time i did super friends, which was in soul tie, which was actually the exact opposite colors of this, is there is some proliferation effects in white and really nothing in red and then a little bit of artifact sourcing, which I don't even include in the
Zachary Jeblonski: But this deck has to be kind of has to arrive at most of its emblems by pretty fairly. So like there's very little like I play Planeswalker and I have a doubling season. So I immediately ult it like there' that doesn't exist in deck because red and white don't have that.
Zachary Jeblonski: So it's kind of nice. It's like this like impending doom that I'm always building towards. So I'm like constantly drawing attention, which I kind of like. And but yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: I will, and you, yeah.
ciderspence: Yeah, that's interesting. It reminds me a little bit of your Valgovoth deck, although you do run a few of...
Zachary Jeblonski: Yes. Yes.
ciderspence: In Valgovoth, the Doom is impending it but sped up. So it's definitely not that you like play it and then you get to Chapter 3 of the Saga when it drops, but I think it is pretty reliable that if you play it, it will be a Chapter 3 on your next turn.
ciderspence: So the clock's a little bit shorter than it looks, but there is still a clock.
Zachary Jeblonski: yes
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, Valgaboth is... I can't believe I'm saying this about a nine mana commander, but Valgaboth is fat way faster than this deck. So, like, the kind of like the probably less... I hesitate to use the term less fun, but it's probably the air record. It's like... I do run, like...
Zachary Jeblonski: I think currently I'm, I'm going to go down to five, but currently within the deck is, I think there's six board wipes in it because it's like most board wipes. all all the board wipes I'm including don't hit planes, walkers, they hit creatures and other things like farewell is a great example of this.
Zachary Jeblonski: so like I am going to be rafting the board somewhat frequently because I'm trying to keep the planeswalkers alive so I can work my way up towards these emblems. And that's probably like the least you would say fun aspect of the, of the board.
Zachary Jeblonski: But I think my two games have shown that even with that many board wives, that's not enough usually to keep me alive or or keep these planeswalkers from ulting. I did have one little
ciderspence: Well, i will I will say that our game didn't really demonstrate that because there was there was an inflection point in the game where you had the board wipe and you you kind of asked the table, should I play this?
Zachary Jeblonski: oh
ciderspence: And you were you're very generous in following the table's, well, my request that you not play it. And we'll get into why later.
Zachary Jeblonski: I think, yeah.
ciderspence: But i I feel like it would have put you in a position.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: I think you could have easily won that game if you had board wiped. But
Zachary Jeblonski: So...
ciderspence: yeah
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, to that point, though, would say I guess I misspoke. I guess maybe i lied a little bit. I do have one board wipe in the deck that does his planeswalkers because it's an MDFC and that was the board. I it was on to inversion.
ciderspence: gotcha.
Zachary Jeblonski: And the yes, it would have saved me it you know, but it would have set me back to like I would lost all my planeswalkers as well. But yeah, I was like, we had that game having gone for a little and like, yeah, you guys you guys want this. like before i i know Before I toss it over to you, Charles, i did want a quick note on Farewell. This is the only deck I run it in because it doesn't hit Planeswalkers.
Zachary Jeblonski: But I did have a humorous moment in my Tuesday game where i was playing this deck. Somebody literally tutored up their Farewell and excitedly casted it. And they're like, you're going to lose everything. And I'm like, check again.
Zachary Jeblonski: I put the look on his face when he realized it didn't hit Planeswalkers. That was a good moment.
ciderspence: yeah it It never fails that cards that you think you know will surprise you once you actually read them.
Zachary Jeblonski: But yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yes. Yep. I've done that many times. where I'm like, yeah i got you. And then it's like, no, you didn't. It's like, oh, no. but yeah, I think that, I think the deck is kept balanced by the fact that, the vast majority of red white planeswalkers are pretty terrible.
Zachary Jeblonski: and especially the ones that have targeted abilities are all pretty terrible. So the deck is, uh, you know, it, it, it, I enjoyed a lot, but it is certainly not a fast winner and it's really not a much of a winner at all yet. So, so yeah. And then, uh, you were, it was a spell casty guy or spell it was, oh, uh, it was, Lila.
Zachary Jeblonski: for that game for you.
ciderspence: Yeah, I was trying a new build of Lila, Unrivaled Slickshot, who is another kind of copy commander. When you cast an Incinder Sorcery that's multicolored from your hand, you can plot it, and which means you can cast it for free as a sorcery on a later turn.
ciderspence: So it's kind of slow deck, but it is kind of a storm deck.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yep.
ciderspence: And it was funny because I decided... for this game that I wanted to keep track of turn time, mostly because I was kind of worried about myself. And indeed i wound up taking a 15 minute turn.
ciderspence: Uh, and i it was it was pretty slow build. Like I think that was probably turn nine, 10, 11, something like that. but I got to the turn where I'm trying to figure out, should I cast another spell?
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah,
ciderspence: How much damage am I throwing? And then one of our pod mates realized that he had some instant speed, life loss and he was like wait oh i you know what when this creature entered i forgot to point this oh is this 13 okay i'll point it you you're dead and i i genuinely said thank you because i real i realized my you know i was just it's like when the when the villain realizes the error of their ways and they're ready to go that was me i was like i i just took a 15 minute turn and i'm i'm not done i i should go now and so uh
Zachary Jeblonski: you did. yeah you did that was
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, yeah.
ciderspence: I think that basically says everything I need to know and need to say about that deck. I had a really good time, built up to one really big turn, didn't get there, got shown the door, and was grateful for the whole experience.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, I think, no, I really like that deck. I think Lila is a really cool commander and it's a commander that's going to age like fine wine. There's like a, that's like a whole topic is like commanders that are just going to get better over time. And Lila is one of them because she just needs more and more. Is it support specifically cards that are, is it colors?
Zachary Jeblonski: But she's getting that, you know, for the last like year or two, since she's been out, they've consistently putting more and more. Is it cards, which is nice. so I'm glad to see it again with some of the new stuff added.
Zachary Jeblonski: But an interesting note about Lila in that game where I was playing Earth of Joe is me and you both together had a tremendous amount of single target removal all that game. Because a lot of the red-white planes walkers either destroy a target or they deal damage to target.
Zachary Jeblonski: And you had a lot of cards that dealt damage to target, you know, and then drew and discarded.
ciderspence: yep Yeah, I mean, I think back to our our original kind of point about the pod is it didn't
Zachary Jeblonski: And that definitely contributed to the grinding nature of that game because we were both like, well, we don't like that, so destroy that. Or we don't like that, four damage on that. Yeah, that was i like that game a lot. I mean, it was I think it was a little painful for the other two players. So I felt a little bad as that game was going.
Zachary Jeblonski: But hopefully they had a good time.
ciderspence: it definitely seemed like we were impacting the board a lot and taking a lot of game actions but i i felt like the pod was pretty well calibrated to deal with it didn't seem to be that much scrumbling and there seemed to be pretty broad understanding of okay this seems to be within the game plan there wasn't a lot of questioning of hey why'd you hit this instead of that there was some but not a lot and i guess it was it was one thing that was nice to
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, I think so.
ciderspence: be back in the home game setting for because I do feel like when you play in a store, there is more of that just because, you know, you don't know each other as well.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: And maybe you came to have an experience that you're not exactly having and you're frustrated. Whereas in the home game, you know, hopefully it's set up to be a little more in line with what you're all expecting. And it it felt like it was that.
ciderspence: So, yeah, I thought, yes, there was a lot of single target removal, but i thought I thought the game worked pretty well.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah. Nope.
ciderspence: And it was not either of us who won that game. So at least one of those opponents had a pretty good time.
Zachary Jeblonski: I think you went first and I went second. I think I dying wise, I think. Yeah. On that game. Cause I think you got taken out by the tree perdition and then he just smacked me.
Zachary Jeblonski: I think, yeah, no, no.
ciderspence: Yep.
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah. Do you want to talk about the second game?
ciderspence: Yeah, so for the second game, i ran Aziza, which this was...
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: The first time I played this deck actually was in a store with you and our new podmate. So I had made a lot of changes and I played it a fair amount.
ciderspence: This is the deck that I had been goldfishing basically 10 times a day for the past month or something. I really like enjoy it.
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah
ciderspence: So Aziza is you can... Tap three creatures to copy and instant or sorcery spell that you cast. This one doesn't have the from hand restriction.
ciderspence: So basically the game plan is build up, get to two creatures at least, and then have enough mana to cast Aziza and something impactful.
ciderspence: And then hopefully by the time you've done that, you either have a burn spell or you have a mana accelerator, and you can have like a big turn.
ciderspence: It's not quite as stormy as that Lila deck turned out to be, but it it does have some storm elements.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: But typically, it's storm with, when you have that turn, you will either win the game or be eliminated immediately thereafter, because what she comes to do is burn the world down.
ciderspence: So she either gets there or gets halfway there, and then everybody's like, oh, hey, let's not let them burn the world down.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah. Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Hey, let's not let's not let that happen.
ciderspence: Yeah, I feel like this game we got interacted with a lot early on, which, you know, coming off the first the ofs the first game seemed correct.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yes.
ciderspence: I'm trying to remember what the rest of the day.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yep.
ciderspence: Oh, our new pod mate played. it wasn't Rada. It was
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, who was it? Oh, it's going to bother us now.
ciderspence: four color four color commander, the only commander in those colors.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, oh, Saskia.
ciderspence: Saskia, the unyielding, right?
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, yeah.
ciderspence: Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yep.
ciderspence: And I think her thing is when she deals... When she enters, you choose an opponent. And then whenever she...
Zachary Jeblonski: Yep.
ciderspence: Is it she or any player, any creature that player controls?
Zachary Jeblonski: No, it's just her.
ciderspence: When she deals damage?
Zachary Jeblonski: It's just, yeah, it's just when Saskia deals damage.
ciderspence: Yeah, whenever she deals damage.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, no, you're right. No, you're right. A creature you control deals combat damage to a player. It deals that much damage to the chosen player.
ciderspence: Right.
Zachary Jeblonski: So that, yeah.
ciderspence: Which is wild. And...
Zachary Jeblonski: It's a cool, cool effect.
ciderspence: Yeah, it was... it Yeah, it was it was a really it was an inspired choice. I think we always liked decks for the last game of the night. So that first game took, don't know, two hours-ish. But I i think we were all going strong.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah. Yeah.
ciderspence: But I think it was definitely the case that it was end of the night vibes. Like we were going to get one more game in. And we i think we were all hoping it wasn't as grindy as the first game. So yeah, the the choice of Saskia there was was very good, very in line with kind of the the pod's hopes and wishes.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: And so, yeah, that player got to a really fun turn where they were able to throw 20 damage around the table using...
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, they had a huge turn with a, oh yeah, didn't mean, yeah, go ahead.
ciderspence: No, it's funny because... So, but I'll just call them Podmate 1 and Podmate 2.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: Podmate 2 had been talking about... finding a spot for it. So, I think Padme 2 played Killian, the new SOS Killian, right?
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, yeah,
ciderspence: And so, they were talking about finding a spot for Superstate in their deck. And then, Podmate big turn involves Super State. So Super State gives a creature base power and toughness 9-9, flying, just keyword keyword soup, but good keyword soup, tasty keyword soup.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: And whenever this creature deals damage to a player, it deals that much damage to each other player.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: So they were able to swing at me and deal damage equal to that damage twice. to the chosen player and then once to zack so it was like it was a big swing i got hit ironically by getting hit by the player i got the least amount of blowback damage but it was yeah like i think that the player dealt 40 damage that turn and it was this was coming very closely off the heels of having uh sasuke being been removed she'd only been out for maybe a turn so it wasn't even fully powered up this was just hey she's back
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: And just real quick, bang, bang, bang. It was very impressive.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, yeah, it was, it was really impressive. I like that effect. And I'm just, you know, I can imagine just a few like a conjurer's closet or a few blink, blink abilities, and you're just like moving that chosen player around that I could see that deck being pretty sweet.
Zachary Jeblonski: and then, pod, pod me number two. oh yeah. That's what we talked about. Killian. Uh, and I had Choco. So this was, this is probably my second newest deck. Earth of Joe being my newest and Choco is is, is a bird's deck. I've been impressed by birds ever since I've seen them. I've seen them a couple times in stores, not with Choco, but a lot of times with the blue white commanders that they have.
Zachary Jeblonski: And I always thought like, man, these birds just, they they do things. They hit hard and they fly and it's the whole thing. So I decided to make my own bird stack. And yeah, birds are good. So Choco is one green, white, blue.
Zachary Jeblonski: And whenever one or more birds you control attack, look at that many cards on top of your library. You may put one of them into your hand and then put any number of land cards from on them onto the battlefield tabbed. and the rest into your graveyard. And then landfall, which I always forget is on this card. Because whenever our land you control Ender, Choco gets 1-0 until on a turn.
Zachary Jeblonski: and But Choco doesn't fly, so Choco always gets blocked, basically. And so I never really paid attention to that landfall trigger, even though i should. But this deck has my card of the week on it.
Zachary Jeblonski: It's that basically the card that I rode to victory, which is Murmuration. And that's a four and a white enchantment. Birds you control get one, one in vigilance. And at the beginning of your instep, for each spell you've cast at this turn, create a one, two blue bird creature token with flying named Stormcrow.
Zachary Jeblonski: So, you know, there was a couple of board wipes. There was a lot of removal, but the murmuration I played stuck. So I basically was always able to rebuild a board full of birds.
Zachary Jeblonski: And that that really is the the card that kind of carried me to victory in that game.
Zachary Jeblonski: Because i think i I think I played Choco three or four times.
ciderspence: Yeah, that card was very effective for you. Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: like He was like 10 or 12 mana or something like that by the last time I played him. So like yeah, if I didn't have Memoration, i i doubt i seriously doubt I would have won that game.
Zachary Jeblonski: but yeah it was just i mean yeah i didn't realize this card existed i think this is a card that you could put in a lot of decks to be honest us because like even though it's a bird anthem thing like it literally just cares how many spells you cast and you get a bird for each spell you cast which is kind of nuts so yeah if you i don't know how many white stormy decks there are but there are like it's it's definitely something to consider
ciderspence: Yeah, very impressive.
Zachary Jeblonski: But yeah, no, I played Choco. So this is, Choco's kind of the opposite of Earth of Joe. So Choco is, I played it, twice now and I've won both times with it so it's it this is like oh okay it's definitely the opposite of Earth of Joe where it's like I do enjoy the deck but it also is it's's definitely more powerful than Earth of Joe it it it's definitely like one of those decks where it just puts so many lands out and it creates so much value over time that it's it's it's hard to keep down but like I said I don't think it's impervious obviously like I think
Zachary Jeblonski: without murmuration and the fact that Choco was like nearing 12 mana, like eventually the deck would grind to a halt. but it is, it is a more resilient, stronger deck. I, you know, you know, it's, you know, I eventually I have to probably drop the money for the good one. She librarian someday, but it's like, every time I look at buy that thing, it's like $50 and I'm like, nah, I'm good.
Zachary Jeblonski: but yeah, yeah, it is.
ciderspence: Yeah, i mean, that is a good card. It is a bird. it would It would definitely probably level the deck up a little bit, but I don't know. I think to your point, like you were able to get a lot of advantage out of the deck as is.
ciderspence: So yeah, you'll you'll get it eventually.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: It will make it stronger and you know worse for opponents. So you know it's I'm sure it'll happen sometime, but it's not in like dire need of it.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, it's interesting. I have like one card for both Choco and Earth of Joe that I'm like, I should get this card. I should put it in there, but they're so expensive. I don't want to pay for them The Earth of Joe one is the, it's the Elspeth, I want to say Storm Slayer, the one that like doubles tokens.
ciderspence: Nice.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, I was like, that would be great in this deck, but that's like 50 bucks. So we'll just keep but keep an eye on them. And I also like to, when possible, buy cards from shops directly. So next time I go to like some of these shops, I'll just take a look and see if they have a copy of it, and maybe I'll treat myself.
ciderspence: nice
Zachary Jeblonski: But yeah, those were... I'm trying to... I'll go into my mental recesses and see if I can remember games prior to this week. But I don't think I got it in May.
Zachary Jeblonski: Do you have any gain other additional games you want to talk about?
ciderspence: No, I think that was the only in-person game. Oh, I played i guess I played one other game. Oh, I finally played Zafai deck on Wednesday two weeks ago.
Zachary Jeblonski: and Okay.
ciderspence: And it was fun, although this is another case of not knowing what a card did, even though it was my commander. And even though I just built the deck, yeah i was we were talking through commanders before a game.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yay.
ciderspence: So somebody said, oh, can I look at that? And then they they read it and they said, oh, thank goodness, at least you only get to do it during your turn, which it very clearly says on the card. So Safai is a seven mana Izzet commander.
Zachary Jeblonski: yay
ciderspence: Once during each of your turns, you can cast an instant or sorcery spell from your hand without paying its mana cost. But I somehow didn't read the only on your on each of your turns part. So I built the deck around the ability to play sorceries at instant speed and having you know the ability to get to a point where I could play a haymaker every turn of a turn rotation, and you can't do that.
ciderspence: oh So I was just staring at a bunch of spells that it would be lovely to cast for free, but I could only do it once per rotation.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah. Okay.
ciderspence: And once I had done it, he was obviously a target for removal. In fact, part of my theory was, oh, I can play these expensive spells that also have a counter spell on them, because I can either get the advantage if i if I'm not being targeted, or i can protect Zafai if he is being targeted.
ciderspence: Nope, doesn't work. So I had a adam kind of fun time. It's funny. I remember it had been probably well over a month since I said I was going to put this deck together.
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah
ciderspence: And I think I talked about on the podcast. how i I just wasn't that excited to do it, but I i did do it. And yet, I think maybe it's because I knew I had misread it, but I think it was...
ciderspence: Some decks you put together and you have fun playing them as they are, even if you know it's not optimized or you look forward to optimizing so that they play better to what you would think is like the peak type of experience with that deck.
ciderspence: And then some decks just, you can tell when you're playing them, there's probably a right way to build this deck or a way that is going to lead to having the most fun or getting the most stuff done.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: And this isn't it. And... That's kind of how I felt about it. It's like, i I feel like they're probably, the internet probably knows or has opinions, strong opinions on what huge spells I should be running.
ciderspence: Like I'm running a few of them, but I'm probably not running all of them.
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah
ciderspence: And now that I know that I can only do it on my own turn, I basically should be running probably the right seven to 10 of those spells. And without those spells and building into those spells and everything, that that's a cheap way to copy those spells.
ciderspence: I think this deck is, more scary and less potent and it kind of felt that way to play so i enjoyed i enjoyed finishing putting it together and playing it but yeah it wasn't as great an experience as i hoped
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, I...
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, yeah i'm i think but the biggest my biggestot my biggest story about misreading my own commander is is when I built my first Chun-Li deck, and I thought those spells would be free.
Zachary Jeblonski: that was That was the biggest time where I had an opponent be like, yo, that doesn't work that way. And i was like, what? But I think the thing that Zafi or Zafi is that...
Zachary Jeblonski: I think what i was trying what I was trying to think is like the way you built your deck, making your sorceries instant, I feel like it still can kind of work because what you can do is you can cast your free spell on your turn and then hold up your mana for those big instants on other people's turns. You what mean? So you can, kind you're not getting a free spell every turn, but like you can still like cast your free spell on your turn and then hold the mana for the other turns. You know, I don't know if that would work with, with your game plan.
ciderspence: Yeah, I don't know. i I will probably play the deck again at some point, but I'm i'm not...
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah
Zachary Jeblonski: okay oh oh oh
ciderspence: It won't be soon. i i enjoyed playing the deck together. and fight No, I mean, it's more that you know there are other decks. So I also recently put together that NS Debate Moderator deck.
ciderspence: That's just...
Zachary Jeblonski: yes
ciderspence: I think I might talked about the game I played on Spelltable with that. But that was just much more fun because I took a lot of game actions. I didn't feel especially close to winning, but I felt like I was doing stuff. And this deck...
ciderspence: zephy is or zephy is so expensive it's a lot of ramp and it's an is it color so it's like not even ramp that you feel great about and then you cast zephy he's horrifying you maybe get a rotation or two to cast your big spell for free and then you basically have to recast him if you want to but now you're now you're looking at these you know six to to ten mana instants and sorceries and you're like well
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah. Yeah.
ciderspence: if I cast one of these, I'm going to get annihilated, and then I'm just going to have the mana to cast another one and get annihilated again with the worst board. It just wasn't the play pattern. you know it's If you're playing a big, scary commander, it's either got to come in and do the thing right away, and the thing's got to put you in a great position to win or to you know to feel like you've done what the deck wants to do, or you've got to be able to do the thing without the commander being out.
ciderspence: And I don't feel like this deck falls into either of those categories the way I built it.
Zachary Jeblonski: Okay. Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, like big scary commanders. Yeah. I mean, they're fun, but they are, they gotta be impactful. Like, unfortunately in, in, in today's modern commander, it's, it's, it's hard to have a commander. Like, you know, like even, even Valcavoth, he doesn't do anything when he comes down, you know? So like it, I get the feeling of like, oh, I, I gotta have enough matter to cast my commander and ho and then enough men on top of that to do something.
Zachary Jeblonski: Or I have to hope and pray that he survives a turn cycle. So like, I guess at least that five gives you a free spell. The turn he comes down, which is hopefully nice. yeah.
ciderspence: it was good, but it wasn't it wasn't enough. And again, that gets back to like, I probably don't have the right spells in here. But I don't i think i have less fun with decks where the deck list is more predetermined if you want to have a good experience with the deck.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: that's Like I said, that's kind of how it felt.
Zachary Jeblonski: I understand that. Yeah. Do we move on to decks on deck?
ciderspence: Yes, indeed.
Zachary Jeblonski: All right. What do I got for decks on deck? So it's been... I've been... You know how you were talking about Aziza. You've been goldfishing that. I've been... you know but When I have free time, I goldfish Earth at Joe just because it's a Planeswalker deck and I want to make sure I get through that quickly. i think the...
Zachary Jeblonski: The really only thing that i'm I would say close to maybe putting into play is I'm going to probably play... Hopefully I can get to the store on Tuesday, but I'm going to try and play Witherbloom again.
Zachary Jeblonski: think I might give you your Witherbloom back. He might be just a little too easy for me in terms of like... Uh, like I haven't lost with them. Let's put it that way.
Zachary Jeblonski: and, uh, he, it's, it kind of, you know, uh, how do I put this?
ciderspence: Okay.
Zachary Jeblonski: Like, obviously I have commanders in my, in my, in my, uh, library here that, uh, kind of are very, so are very easy and know that, but he's almost too much because like, it's just like, I've had him get removed like five times.
Zachary Jeblonski: I'm like, yeah, it's fine. He's got affinity for creatures. I'll get them back out. You know, like, It's he's he's cool. i don't know. I don't know. but Anyway, long story short, I might actually go back if I do decide to to get out of Witherbloom.
Zachary Jeblonski: I might go back to Marin, who is what the deck was before. But once again, I saw a deck list where it's Marin all creatures. And I had tried the all creature thing before with that god from Baldur's Gate. What was his name?
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, Merkle. He's the guy who turns your creatures into enchantments when they die.
ciderspence: Right. Yeah, Lord of Bones. Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah so I tried an all creature build with him and it was pretty rough. But the all creature build for Maren seems like it actually works pretty well. So you can have Umori as the companion because all your non-line cards will be creatures.
Zachary Jeblonski: and I kind of put together a prototype deck list and it seems really cool. I think it might have a similar problem that the last time I built Marin, which is like I'm doing a lot of things, but I'm not killing people. So that's something I got to like pay more attention to.
Zachary Jeblonski: so I might go back. I might go back to that. We'll see. But that's probably my closest thing to deck on deck. I don't have anything else that's really close to like coming to fruition.
Zachary Jeblonski: i I'm still, I think what what I might work on next is that Selesnya bracket four deck. Because my Selesnya, I don't have a good Selesnya deck right now that I really enjoy. And I kind of just want to make the most heinous bracket four stacks deck of all time. Just sort of like those, you know, those rare occasions when somebody's like, I want to play my Yuriko. I'm like, all right.
Zachary Jeblonski: Here's my Selesnya death with humility in it. Good luck. you know, so I think that'd be nice because I think it's about time I try and make one of those.
Zachary Jeblonski: but yeah, that's my decks on deck. What you got?
ciderspence: Nice. I feel like that dovetails really well into... I think my primary deck on deck is I'm going to build a CEDH deck.
Zachary Jeblonski: Okay.
ciderspence: And the commander is going to be longshot rebel bowman. I've got a lot of the cards.
Zachary Jeblonski: Nice.
ciderspence: I, you know, I kind of went through my collection to get the CDH staple monored stuff that I have. And I ordered a bunch of stuff online to supplement it.
ciderspence: So he is a fringe CDH commander, so he's not kind of on meta. but i But I think there are certainly some lines to win with him.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: I got some combo pieces. not Notably, so longshot reduces your non-creature spells by one, and when you cast one of them, deals two damage to each opponent.
ciderspence: So I think the primary... combo win conline is Mystic Forge and Sensei's Divining Top. uh so you can cast top for free and if you have mystic forge on board uh you can just tap it to put it back on top of your library and then you can cast instance of sorcery or sorry you can cast artifacts from the top your library so you can recast top for free uh tap it again put it back and then each cast your ping and everybody for two so that's that that will just burn the table down there's another card i've discovered from
Zachary Jeblonski: Nice.
ciderspence: a reddit thread from a user's user who didn't want to run that combo. There's another card, which will be my card of the week. I haven't played it yet, but I'm excited about it.
ciderspence: It is Experimental Frenzy. Let read this card.
Zachary Jeblonski: I heard this one.
ciderspence: Yeah, I don't think... So it's it reads pretty bad, but
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, I have seen this car before, yeah.
ciderspence: So Experimental Frenzy, three and a red, Enchantment. You may look at the top card of your library any time. You may play the top card of your library, and three and a red, Destroy Experimental Frenzy. Well, I skipped one line.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: sensei's dividing top where if you play it for free if you have set experimental frenzy out and you can well if you can play sensei's dividing top and then play experimental frenzy uh then you can put top back on top of your library and play it again and again and again so it needs more support than that i need a way i there is a one ring in there so that's right now my primary source of drawing cards but i think cdh is too fast for a card like alhamert's archive which i think would be a natural for this deck but
Zachary Jeblonski: That's cool.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, it's I do not think yeah, i don't think you can do that in CDH.
ciderspence: i don't I don't think you can play a five mana spell that doesn't win you the game.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: Yeah. And so, yeah, I think, you know, what I expect to happen and I'm kind of looking for is, you know, I'm going to find a few games and kind of get destroyed several times, maybe learn some stuff along the way.
ciderspence: And hopefully I'll get a win out of out of the experience at some point, but I'm not looking, I'm not expecting that anytime soon. But yeah, I think, kind of in lines with what you were saying about the bracket four space. It's like, I think I want to add that type of experience to my greater commander landscape.
ciderspence: You know, in doses where i where i want it only.
ciderspence: Like, I'm certainly not hoping that all the stores I play at turn into CDH tournament only. but But yeah, I'm excited about trying to make a foray into that arena sometime soon. so
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, we had, you know, what i when I when I when I was living and working in Atlanta prior to here, there was a store there but that's since shut down, unfortunately. But when I was going there, it was my favorite magic store of all time, just full of the and I mean this term affectionately because I can put myself in that term just full of the most glorious weirdos.
Zachary Jeblonski: I really enjoyed playing with them, full of characters. I mean, there was a gentleman in his upper 50s who's been playing Magic since the game started, and he would bring out these commander decks with cards you've never heard of.
Zachary Jeblonski: And he would just do the most ridiculous things, but get away with it because he was so charming and fun to play with. he he On a quick tangent, he Yavimayad, turned everybody's lands in the forest, and then played Acid Rain to destroy all forests.
Zachary Jeblonski: I was like, all right, man, you got, that's good. But, but the point of this story is that that store did a really good job of not the store didn't do It it was just the people there with really great, like community aspect is like one section of the store was CDH.
Zachary Jeblonski: One section of the store was like lower power. One section of store was like medium power. This is all before brackets. and that store did a really, it was just a really, that was a really nice vibe. So if you wanted whatever experience you wanted, you could find it there.
Zachary Jeblonski: but yeah, you just never know when somebody's going roll up, you know, especially at like the store we go to on Thursdays sometimes or something like that, where somebody's I'm going to black or four. It's nice to have your bracket four ready or your CDH deck ready to go. So I think it's a good idea.
ciderspence: Yeah. Yeah, agreed.
Zachary Jeblonski: I don't think I'm ever going to make a bracket one though. I think that's like, I, I can't, I can't get what bracket one, but I, I, I salute the people that do enjoy it.
ciderspence: I will just say, i think I mentioned on the podcast, I got in a single game with my bracket one deck at Vegas and the game got cut short because somebody, up I think we were a three pod and somebody showed up to make it a four pod.
ciderspence: And I think we were all
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: happy to move from the bracket one game to the other game. But while we played it, it was pretty fun because it's basically like you're all playing.
Zachary Jeblonski: All right.
ciderspence: It's really slow, but you basic it's basically like every turn is storytelling time. So it's like at hopefully the turns don't run too long, but it's like
Zachary Jeblonski: Yes. Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah.
ciderspence: Okay, why is that weirdo your commander? Oh, why are you playing that terrible card? Oh, why are you playing that terrible card? Is it the art?
ciderspence: Is there a story? Is it about how you got into magic? Is there like some family drama related to it? And you know, it it actually, like I said, it was pretty fun. But yeah it would have gone on for 20 hours.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: So we were all glad to but we were all glad to not have to see it all the way through.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah. This my deck full of cards with the moon in it.
ciderspence: Actually sounds pretty fun.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah. I don't know. just picked that out my head because I looked up frenzy and there's a card with the moon in it. I was like, I could see somebody making a whole deck with every card has a picture of the moon on it or a moon on it. I should say.
ciderspence: No, it's got to be the same moon. That's how you get to real bracket one.
Zachary Jeblonski: Ooh, so like every every card has the Innistrad Moon in it, the one that has Emrakul entrapped in it? Okay, okay.
ciderspence: i did You could probably make a deck out of like some singular events in Magic's lore history, right? like There's probably some invasion where you could play the actual battle card that represents the invasion.
ciderspence: Then like each of the characters like while they're at the invasion, people telling stories about the invasion.
Zachary Jeblonski: Or like my commander. Yeah. My commander's battle for Zendikar and all my cards feature that battle in some way, you know, or something like that. Yeah.
ciderspence: Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: I could see that. I could see that. Uh, yeah, I was just scanning real quick to see if I had any more decks on deck that, uh we're anywhere close to ready to go and they're not the only thing the last little shout out i'll do is i will likely replace my minotaurs deck because like it's just you know i gave it a good shot just not fun to play and i just you know when i when i leave to go to the store i reach for certain decks to bring with me and it's just one of those decks where every time i look at i'm like i'm good but once again, shout out to a YouTube creator, which I do not remember right now because I'm a hack and a fraud, is they had a Jund idea or they featured a Jund idea that was sent to them, for Agnes.
Zachary Jeblonski: And this is a commander I played against a lot when I was in, uh, Atlanta. Like I had one player that really loved Agnes. but Agnes is, uh, Agnes, the dragon slash it's one.
Zachary Jeblonski: right. It's one Rakdos pip red pip. gruel pip and then he says haste whenever a creature you control with haste attacks create a tap treasure token so there's a couple of cool things you can do with agnes one of the things that people like to do is you can run agnes as i'm on a mono red commander because those pips are hybridized you can literally just run them as a red commander if you wanted to but i would run them as a jun commander and the person uh, whose deck idea had was it was, they filled the card with suspend cards.
Zachary Jeblonski: because most of the su suspend suspend cards and creatures that come out, come out with haste. So like, it's just a part of being in suspend. so you basically build up this whole thing of like, you know, I go back to this theme of impending doom, which is like, you have all these cards in suspend. They're going to come off to suspend. They're going to have haste. They're going to make tap treasure tokens.
Zachary Jeblonski: It's going to be a good time. Here we go. You know, kind of thing. So that that's like that hasn't even entered in Moxfield yet. We're not even there yet. But that's something that I'm keeping back in my head is probably another thing I'm going to probably do is like I think suspend is really cool.
Zachary Jeblonski: There is a there is a red suspend card that I love the idea of and I just haven't made it work or haven't been able to find a place to put it. and I'm going to tell people to turn. it I just looked it up because I forgot the name of it.
Zachary Jeblonski: glimpse of tomorrow, uh, is suspend three for red, red, meaning you have to put two red into it and then suspend it, which means for then you have to wait three turns for it to cast, or if you have a way to remove time counters off of it.
Zachary Jeblonski: But when you do cast it, you shuffle all permanents you own into your library and it reveal that many cards in the top of your library and put all non-aura permanents revealed this way onto the battlefield, then do the same for aura cards, then put the rest in the bottom of your library.
Zachary Jeblonski: I love this card, and I want to play it at some point, and I think this would be a great deck to do it in. So hopefully if have a bunch of treasures and things like that, I can shuffle all them in and get a whole new board state that is more permanent, you know, kind of thing.
Zachary Jeblonski: But yeah, that's what I got for decks on deck.
ciderspence: Nice.
Zachary Jeblonski: Anything else you want to talk about Dex on Deck?
ciderspence: I think the the one other deck I'm working on is I had a Werewolves build of Riku of Two Reflections, and I am changing that to be a...
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah. Yeah.
ciderspence: I also had a... So I had Riku Werewolves deck, that I stopped playing because I was unclear about the rules for how flipping werewolves works.
ciderspence: I think I'm now clear about it, so I could go back to it, but I kind of don't want to. Werewolves are not... It also wasn't that much fun. And then I had a Tuya Bearclaw deck that was built around Beast Kindred.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: And I like that deck, but I've since made it a separate Creatures-only version of the Two-Year Bearclaw deck. But i also, it didn't feel great to have the deck be Beast Kindred when the name of the commander is Tuya Bearclaw.
ciderspence: I felt like it should have been bear Kindred, but I also didn't want to make Bear Kindred.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: So I kind of had Riku on the sideline, well, that Riku on the sidelines and Beasts on the sidelines. And then i think I just saw both deck boxes one day while I was trying to clean up, failing to clean up.
ciderspence: And I was like, why don't I just make Riku the commander of this Beast Kindred deck?
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: So um'm I've been toying with that recently. i played it on Spell Table sometime during the past week, and it it did very little of very little, but what it did do was pretty fun.
Zachary Jeblonski: Okay.
ciderspence: So this is Riku 2 Reflection, so he... Riku... I have a lot of fun with the other Riku, with Riku of Many Paths from Thunder Junction.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: But this guy, more expensive... more scary and less effective.
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah this is this wipe yeah this was one this was one of my very first decks that I made when i started playing magic was Riku of two reflections and I really really really struggled to make him work but he's definitely I've learned a lot I've grown as a magic player I'm sure I could go back to him and make him work again i just at the time i was you know I don't even know if I still had do I have the deck list because i try to make sure I keep all that let's say
ciderspence: Oh, nice.
ciderspence: He definitely reads as too much power in the hands of a a well young magic player.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, I, I, yeah.
ciderspence: So Rico, two reflections, two green, blue, red.
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah
ciderspence: legendary creature, human wizard, he's a 2-2. Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, you may pay blue, red. If you do, copy that spell. You may choose new targets for the copy. And also, whenever another non-token creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may pay green, blue. If you do, create a token that's a copy of that creature.
ciderspence: uh so that's a lot it's a lot that you have to pay for but it's still a lot and i think everybody sees it and kind of thinks the worst versions of both of these effects like oh you're copying instants and sorceries that sounds horrifying oh you're getting creatures like you're getting copies of big bad scary creatures that's a lot
Zachary Jeblonski: He, yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, the last time i I had these decks in operation was four years ago. i'm looking at the timestamps. And yeah, so the challenge I was right into at Riku is where do you how do you split the baby with him? Like like like how much...
Zachary Jeblonski: creature copying support do you put in how much spell copying support do you put in do you just go all in on one or the other and the other thing that really as is a secret kind of killer with Rico of two reflections that I also have the issue the Modi but a Modi I've fixed in a different way which is his toughness is two he dies to everything that was the problem I ran into a lot with him
ciderspence: Yeah, he's like expensive enough and has an ability that you have to pay for such that you kind of you either need to play him and have him stick, or you need to build up so much mana for the turn that you play him that you don't get to cast him for a long time.
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah
Zachary Jeblonski: Exactly.
ciderspence: So yeah, I mean, it's interesting. I guess thinking about in the context of the one of the decks I was talking about, my Lila deck, that's a That card play style is a good one, I guess, for here. like Imagine you plot a bunch of spells so that when you cast Riku, you could then play those spells for free. So at least then you only have to hold up his cost and the cost to copy the spells.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, the yeah.
ciderspence: But still, it's like, even the fact that you have to copy it, like even if you just want to copy one thing for free when you play Riku, that's still 7 mana.
Zachary Jeblonski: It is.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, it is.
ciderspence: Yeah, so...
Zachary Jeblonski: He's, you know, every time I look at him, I'm like, there's, there's something there. There's something there. You can do something with them. And I, I, I gave it a good shot, you know, four years ago, maybe someday in the future, I'll try them again. I'm looking at these old deck lists that I had and yeah, I have changed significantly as a player. These decks are pretty terrible that I'm looking at that I made.
Zachary Jeblonski: this is back when I loved a mnemonic deluge. I remember that card. This is also the deck where I infamously played expropriate and copied it five times.
Zachary Jeblonski: And the pods made me play it out. They all choose. that Every single person chose extra turns and they they made me play it out, which is funny.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, yeah, it took me like four turns.
ciderspence: Did you get there?
Zachary Jeblonski: It took me literally four turns to win. It took me for so long. But i yeah, they sat there and waited. and They're like, all right, you got 15 turns. Do it. It's like, okay.
ciderspence: oh yeah, see, Mnemonic Deluge is a card that should be in that Zephyr deck.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, Nomatic Deluge would be good in Zephyr. Yeah, Nomatic Deluge, it's a fun card. it was, you know, the way I was praying, it was kind of broken because, you know, you just target your own thing. You know, so if you have like...
Zachary Jeblonski: and expropriate for instance in your graveyard and then you just mnemonic deluge it, you know? yeah, I was big on that.
ciderspence: that doesn't i mean That doesn't sound broken. That just sounds like what you would do, right?
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, I mean, it's it's, yeah. I used to run an amount delusion like every blue deck. It was like it was like that. It was, oh, what's the other one that takes forever to resolve because it's a nightmare? mind's Minds Desire.
ciderspence: Do the chaos scale?
Zachary Jeblonski: No, Minds Desire is the other one I used to run a lot, and that one takes forever to resolve. Yeah, so it's six mana sorcery, shuffle your library, then XL top card your library until end of turn. You may play like hard with that plan. It's mana caused, but it has storm.
Zachary Jeblonski: hi So, uh, so mine's desire with mnemonic, uh, day lose like, uh, because you would, yeah, I'll cut. Yeah. You would mnemonic day lose it. Oh, I'm, I'm, I'm getting flashbacks now when used to play this deck.
Zachary Jeblonski: It would be like, I would do so much without, yeah, I would do so much without doing anything.
ciderspence: That sounds amazing.
Zachary Jeblonski: Like, I would do all this stuff and everyone would still be alive at the end of it.
ciderspence: Yeah, that's suboptimal. But yeah, it does so does sound like fun turns for you.
Zachary Jeblonski: Because like, like i'm looking I'm looking at my deck and I'm like, wait minute, how do I actually kill people in this?
ciderspence: Yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: And that was always the problem is I would be like, all right, well, I'm going to play, I'm going to make 14 copies of Gilded Lotus and then, but then what? You know, like,
Zachary Jeblonski: I've grown since then.
Zachary Jeblonski: Well, I look forward to any in any in incarnation of Riku that you make because I'm always, every time that commander shows up, i'm always like, ooh, how'd you do it? Did you make him work? Does he work yet? You know, like,
ciderspence: Yeah, hopefully you'll see it soon.
ciderspence: i i suspect it will not work all that great, but I am i am excited to i'm excited to revive some of my old ideas.
Zachary Jeblonski: nice.
Zachary Jeblonski: No, I'm here for it.
Zachary Jeblonski: I love when sitting down to a pod and somebody shows up with a commander that I tried to make work and I'm like, oh crap, did you crack the code? Let me see. like Hopefully this goes, you know, like, and I can't think of any examples off the my head, but I know at least once or twice I've, I've like, oh, that's what you were supposed to do with the commander, you know, but I can't think of the exact examples the top my head right now.
ciderspence: I think I talked maybe in an episode a long time ago about an example of that with me.
ciderspence: It was Min Wily Illusionist, who was a commander that I had tried to build.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh yeah.
ciderspence: And I knew she was good, but I also knew that my deck was not a good use of her. And then I played somebody on a spell table game who was playing Min, and i was like, oh yeah, I'm i'm excited to see your Min deck.
ciderspence: I don't even think they were being a jerk, but they were like, oh yeah, cool, cool, cool. And the game went so well for them, and they they built such an overwhelming advantage that at the end they were like, and that's how you build a min deck. And I was like, you're right.
ciderspence: i' I'm not even mad about it. That was that was wildly impressive.
Zachary Jeblonski: I don't know why I'm remembering this, but do you remember like the 80s or 70s commercial? And it was I think the last name was green of a football player and he throws the towel to the little kid in the hallway. it was like a very viral commercial at the time.
ciderspence: You have me and Joe Green. That's right.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, yeah, yeah. and it's like I'm just imagining the men player throwing the towel to you. Here you go, kid.
ciderspence: That is what it was approximately like. Yep.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh man. Yeah. So I think we're up a little early. I didn't prepare any Marvel spoilers, but they are flooding the internet.
Zachary Jeblonski: I've been kind of keeping.
ciderspence: Yeah, let me just...
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: I'm just going to wax poetic a bit about the Marvel spoilers. I think I've talked on the on the show about how i'm I'm a Marvel person.
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh, go please. Yeah.
ciderspence: i really like the Spider-Man set. Yes, it was me. I was the only one. Sorry about it.
Zachary Jeblonski: Sorry, not sorry.
ciderspence: But I had a really good time with those cards. I hadn't been into, I think there were, there was like a very early wave of Marvel spoilers.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: weeks ago i think before uh strict saving came out i wasn't really we and we talked about some on the show i wasn't i wasn't upset about them or like angry with them or like ignoring them actively at the time but i wasn't that excited about it at the time but i have been following
Zachary Jeblonski: yeah
ciderspence: the recent spoilers from this week very closely. And now I'm really excited. I guess, I think as I see more characters come out as cards, I'm like, oh, I would love to build that. Oh, I got to build that.
ciderspence: Oh, I want to build that. So now I'm at the point where
Zachary Jeblonski: That's awesome.
ciderspence: Yeah, I've just seen some, like, there's a Luke Cage, there's a Misty Knight, there's a Colleen Wing. There's some characters that i I'm still hoping to see that I haven't seen yet. I want to see a Shang-Chi. But, they're like, I, you know, I'm starting to, the world is starting to fill out, and now I'm starting to think about, oh, are there any decks that I could build that'll have a theme with all the characters I care about? Or, oh, do I want to build a deck representing a particular story? Like, do I want to build a Civil War deck?
ciderspence: that has you know some combination of Iron Man and Captain America as the commanders and somehow tells the story of that storyline, either from the movies or from the comics? Do I want to build the Heroes for Hire deck and somehow get Luke Cage and Misty Knight in a deck together or Luke Cage and Iron Fist or Misty Knight and Colleen Wing?
ciderspence: They had their own detective agency. I'm forgetting the name of it now, but like that it got my... It's just got my brain going back to like the fun I had as a younger person reading comics.
ciderspence: And that's been really exciting.
Zachary Jeblonski: That's awesome.
ciderspence: So yeah, that when we do decks on deck, once the full Marvel set is released, that might just be the whole show because it's gonna, it's gonna be a lot for me.
Zachary Jeblonski: I am. a
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah, no, mean, I'm down with doing like a whole Marvel theme show like I am. Admittedly, not as much of a Marvel person. I did enjoy the movies quite a bit when they did the run up to Endgame. But i what I am excited for is other people to be excited for the things that are excited for.
Zachary Jeblonski: So I will say this though, the design seemed pretty good. I haven't seen any commanders yet that jumped out to me that were like, oh I want to build that. But what I, and this is, I'm going to a hard time articulating this, but this set looks like it's full of commanders that are not readily apparent that they're good. And I think people are going to discover later that they are. And that happens to me sometimes, like, you know, like, like a Choco, for instance, right? Like, I just was like, I kind of ignored it when Final Fantasy came out. And now I'm like, oh, and I think this deck, I think this set has a lot of commanders in it where I'm just like,
Zachary Jeblonski: I'm reading it and I'm like, this doesn't seem good, and but I bet you it is. And it's like one of those things where I think we're, I think this set's going to be mined for a long time. I think this is going to be like a, a commander, uh, Baldur's gate set where like people just keep coming back to it.
Zachary Jeblonski: that does make me fearful for the prices. So hopefully they're printing the ever living crap out of it. but yeah, I think the only thing I saw so far was, and I can't pull it up yet, but there's the pre con face, Dr. Doom Grixis that cares about discarding lands. That's probably the one I'm most interested in so far, but, yeah, it looks, uh, looks like it's going a banger.
ciderspence: Yeah, I think, yeah, I've seen a lot of cards that, here's, so one example, i I mentioned this card before, but I'm just going to read Misty Knight, Hero for Hire, one in a red. Legendary Creature, Human, Detective, Hero.
ciderspence: the The thought of doing a mono-red Detectives Kindred deck appeals to me a bit.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yeah.
ciderspence: and
Zachary Jeblonski: Oh yeah.
ciderspence: There aren't that many I know of, but at least her in Crime Novelist is a great place to start.
Zachary Jeblonski: She's,
ciderspence: But this ability is pretty great.
Zachary Jeblonski: I'm not going spoil this for you. i'm not to spoil it for you, but yeah, this is one of those cards where i read it. i was like, Oh, Oh, this is good. all right.
ciderspence: Yeah, yeah it's yeah, I agree.
Zachary Jeblonski: So go ahead.
ciderspence: It's good, but Yes, good as in like you could get a this could be a deck that does a lot. Doesn't seem obviously overpowered or broken or anything, but definitely seems... so okay' two and Two and tap and discard a card.
ciderspence: Draw a card for each card you've discarded this turn. So that's pretty good.
Zachary Jeblonski: Yep. Yep.
ciderspence: i mean, I've i already got plenty of mono-red decks that you know they discard to draw. and There are a lot of rummagers and maybe some looters.
Zachary Jeblonski: shadow of the goblin monument to endurance uh uh man mancelanti the artifact thing that flips into a land like there's so many things you can do with this and then the discard payoffs are there because you got you have two rude i think from tm tmnt yeah cool but rude uh monument to endurance like
ciderspence: Yeah. yeah Cool but rude. Yep. Lots of...
ciderspence: Cool but rude. Yep.
Zachary Jeblonski: The discard synergies are there now. Like, yeah, she's, I think that could be a really fun deck.
ciderspence: Yeah. Agreed.
Zachary Jeblonski: So I'm, yeah, I'm excited for, for Marvel.
ciderspence: So, yeah.
Zachary Jeblonski: I think the, that the, the meat and potatoes text on the cards is, is, is hidden. So yeah, I think we're, I'm looking forward to hearing some decks on deck on this.
Zachary Jeblonski: Anything else you want to cover before we kind of wrap it up?
ciderspence: No, I think I'm good with that.
Zachary Jeblonski: Cool. and Well, thanks for joining me again, Charles.
ciderspence: Thanks for having me, Zach.
Zachary Jeblonski: All right. We'll we'll be back hopefully next week. And enjoy your magic-ing and marveling out there.
ciderspence: Take it easy, everybody.
Zachary Jeblonski: See you.
