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Episode 4: Pinball Longevity with Jeff Rivera
84 Plays7 years ago
We sit down with the legendary Jeff Rivera of the Pinball Podcast and talk all about getting longevity out of a pinball collection, beaver, and getting rammed by a bull! Come join us in the fun.
Check out the Cowboy Pinball story @ https://www.wdrb.com/wdrb-in-the-morning/several-injured-in-owensboro-rodeo-cowboy-pinball-event-involving-bulls/article_bcf62ed0-35d7-11e9-8f4b-571c14034bc0.html
Intro song: Cinnamon Scars by The Hanks
Outro song: Stockholm Syndrome by Muse
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Transcript
Introductions and Welcome
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
00:00:06
Speaker
This is Josh Roop here with my guest host.
00:00:10
Speaker
Scott Larson.
00:00:12
Speaker
And with us today, Scott, who do we have?
00:00:15
Speaker
We have the famous Jeff Rivera from the Pinball Podcast.
00:00:19
Speaker
You know it, or also known as Generous Jeff.
00:00:21
Speaker
How are you doing today, Jeff?
00:00:23
Speaker
I'm doing great.
00:00:24
Speaker
I spent the majority of the day in the backseat of a car between someone larger than me and a baby seat.
00:00:31
Speaker
So I'm really happy to be sitting alone in a chair talking with you guys.
00:00:35
Speaker
I don't blame you.
00:00:36
Speaker
That does not sound like fun.
00:00:37
Speaker
What were you doing?
00:00:41
Speaker
I was going down to Beaver, the town here in Utah.
00:00:45
Speaker
Yes, they named it Beaver.
00:00:48
Speaker
So bad.
00:00:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:00:50
Speaker
To wish happy birthday to a friend's mom.
00:00:54
Speaker
She's turning 71 and we surprised her.
00:00:56
Speaker
Nice.
00:00:58
Speaker
You know, what's the funny part about Beaver, Utah?
00:01:00
Speaker
And I am not making this up.
00:01:02
Speaker
The second that you drive into that town from the south end of that town, there's a giant sign that says, eat beaver tacos.
00:01:09
Speaker
You can look it up on the internet.
00:01:11
Speaker
It's crazy.
00:01:13
Speaker
I saw it.
00:01:13
Speaker
I did see it.
00:01:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:15
Speaker
Well, I was at the Cub Scouts the other day and they were going on and on about how many silver beavers we had in the ward.
00:01:22
Speaker
And I just kept rocking back and forth thinking, can they just change it to Buffalo or Silverback or something?
00:01:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:29
Speaker
Nope.
00:01:30
Speaker
Those beavers are hard workers.
00:01:33
Speaker
Wow.
00:01:34
Speaker
So it's nice to be out of the car.
00:01:36
Speaker
Well, you're a good man for going down there.
Jeff's Pinball Journey
00:01:39
Speaker
It was fun.
00:01:40
Speaker
I had a good time.
00:01:40
Speaker
Of course, you always have to slow down below 10 miles below the speed limit because that's how they raise funds down there.
00:01:46
Speaker
Well, yeah, that and it was snowing the whole time down and back.
00:01:50
Speaker
So the snow has been ridiculous.
00:01:51
Speaker
Yeah, some of those passes were pretty gnarly.
00:01:53
Speaker
Yeah, it was.
00:01:54
Speaker
Okay.
00:01:57
Speaker
Anyway, so what else?
00:01:58
Speaker
What has been up with you guys in pinball?
00:02:01
Speaker
You want to go first, Jeff?
00:02:03
Speaker
Sure.
00:02:04
Speaker
SES wasn't too long ago.
00:02:07
Speaker
Obviously, being the state rep for the IFPA, I hosted that.
00:02:12
Speaker
That went really well.
00:02:12
Speaker
That was a really fun tournament.
00:02:16
Speaker
Go along with the SES, we had some media coverage with that.
00:02:22
Speaker
We got featured in the City Weekly newspaper.
00:02:26
Speaker
That was pretty cool.
00:02:27
Speaker
I don't know if you guys saw that.
00:02:29
Speaker
Did some on-air interviews as well for the local news.
00:02:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:33
Speaker
A little bit of pinball media tour, I guess.
00:02:36
Speaker
We've got Pinball League starting up at the end of the month.
00:02:41
Speaker
It hasn't started yet, but that's kind of on the horizon.
00:02:45
Speaker
Beyond that, I've been trying to play as much as I can just on location locally.
00:02:49
Speaker
We've got some newer games out there, like the Munsters.
00:02:52
Speaker
I just kind of got my own
Pinball Locations and Favorites
00:02:55
Speaker
podcast going, but it's been good.
00:02:56
Speaker
It's been a good month of pinball lately.
00:02:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:00
Speaker
And coming off being sick with the flu and things like that, it's been nice to be back up on my feet and playing some pinball.
00:03:06
Speaker
So, Jeff, where is your favorite place to go?
00:03:09
Speaker
We're all based out of Utah, and so we're kind of around the Salt Lake City area.
00:03:13
Speaker
Where is your top three places to go for pinball?
00:03:17
Speaker
Okay, well...
00:03:21
Speaker
It's been shifting around a little bit because I really like Keto's.
00:03:29
Speaker
That's Keto's Brewery.
00:03:31
Speaker
That's got a pretty decent mix of games there.
00:03:34
Speaker
I like Campfire Lounge a lot.
00:03:37
Speaker
Not a lot of games, but it's just a cool vibe.
00:03:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:42
Speaker
I also like Nickel Mania down on State Street.
00:03:47
Speaker
The condition of games can vary wildly.
00:03:49
Speaker
Sometimes they'll go and every single thing seems to play perfect.
00:03:52
Speaker
And then other times it can just be kind of rough.
00:03:55
Speaker
But it's kind of hard to complain when games are only 15 cents a play, sometimes 10 cents a play.
00:04:01
Speaker
I like those.
00:04:02
Speaker
And then Quarters is a lot of fun as well.
00:04:04
Speaker
They have a lot of newer games.
00:04:05
Speaker
They've got some older games.
00:04:09
Speaker
And it's fun to take people there who aren't big-time pinball fans.
00:04:14
Speaker
They'll play a game or two.
00:04:16
Speaker
But if they're not into the pinball, they'll find plenty to do while you hammer away at the games.
00:04:21
Speaker
They'll hang out.
00:04:22
Speaker
So some good places.
00:04:25
Speaker
What's your favorite game right now?
00:04:29
Speaker
Oh...
00:04:30
Speaker
That's tough.
00:04:31
Speaker
I... Hmm.
00:04:34
Speaker
Probably still... Probably still Total Nuclear Annihilation.
00:04:38
Speaker
It's been... It's not my all-time favorite, but it's my current favorite.
00:04:42
Speaker
Like, if I had to just go play one game of pinball, I'd probably go do that.
00:04:47
Speaker
I know it's going to be real short, but...
00:04:50
Speaker
I was gonna go flip one on.
00:04:52
Speaker
Probably that or actually kind of this is weird.
00:04:55
Speaker
Spider-Man like Stern Spider-Man.
00:04:58
Speaker
I took the center post out of mine and made it steep wax it up made it kind of brutal and that's been something I've been addicted to lately.
00:05:06
Speaker
So awesome.
00:05:08
Speaker
I've been listening to a lot of Muse lately and I listen to Muse and I think, man, they should do a soundtrack for a pinball machine because that would be very similar to Total Nuclear Annihilation or a background.
00:05:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:22
Speaker
Yep, yep, for sure.
00:05:23
Speaker
That would be way cool.
00:05:25
Speaker
Well, you know that Muse is the reason that Twilight exists, right?
00:05:27
Speaker
I know it's a random side tangent, but she was addicted to, oh, not Knights of Sedona, the one right before it.
00:05:36
Speaker
But yeah, she listened to that album and she envisioned the whole Twilight saga, I guess, from that.
00:05:43
Speaker
Well, okay, so that took Muse down a few notches for me.
00:05:48
Speaker
Well, it's not their fault that they inspired someone else, but yeah.
00:05:53
Speaker
It's cool that they were able to inspire someone else to a point of a mega blockbuster hit movie and book franchise.
00:06:00
Speaker
So, okay.
00:06:01
Speaker
Now I just can't listen to views without thinking of them with diamond shimmery skin.
00:06:06
Speaker
Well, that, that was Josh's fault.
Pinball Evolution: 90s to Now
00:06:10
Speaker
I didn't do that too.
00:06:11
Speaker
I just, sorry, I broke the glass.
00:06:16
Speaker
So what brought you, how long you been in the hobby now, Jeff?
00:06:19
Speaker
Um, I've been playing for a long time.
00:06:22
Speaker
I, my dad used to drag me to the arcade and like most kids in the nineties, I would sneak off to play street fighter and those types of like the JAMA games, you know, go sink a bunch of quarters into like X-Men and the Simpsons and stuff like that.
00:06:37
Speaker
And I'd circle back and he'd still be playing pinball in the back of the arcade.
00:06:43
Speaker
But it was fascinating to me at that point.
00:06:46
Speaker
And I'd play a little bit of it too.
00:06:48
Speaker
But as far as collecting goes, that's been about 11 years now.
00:06:57
Speaker
Maybe a little bit longer, 12, probably 12.
00:06:59
Speaker
So yeah, actively collecting is amazing.
00:07:03
Speaker
It's been a while, I guess.
00:07:04
Speaker
I've seen a lot change.
00:07:05
Speaker
Well, and that's another question that comes to my mind.
00:07:08
Speaker
What are some of the differences you see from when you first got in 12 years ago to now?
00:07:15
Speaker
So the most obvious thing is obviously price is pricing.
00:07:17
Speaker
Like just you could buy four games for the cost of one now, but brand new off the line or what?
00:07:26
Speaker
I mean, in one single day, I bought World Cup soccer, Attack from Mars, and Spider-Man.
00:07:34
Speaker
There's no way I could buy those three games in a single day now.
00:07:39
Speaker
I didn't have as good of a job then as I did now.
00:07:44
Speaker
It's just the hobby was way different.
00:07:48
Speaker
I couldn't afford my own collection now.
00:07:50
Speaker
There's no way if I didn't build it back then.
00:07:54
Speaker
It's just different.
00:07:56
Speaker
But yeah, even games off the line back then were way, way cheaper than they are now.
00:08:02
Speaker
So I remember when games were under 4,000 and hitting that 4,000 mark was kind of crazy.
00:08:13
Speaker
And now the base price is six.
00:08:19
Speaker
Or five for a Stern Pro.
00:08:20
Speaker
I think their most recent Stern Pro is like 55.
00:08:27
Speaker
I don't know.
00:08:29
Speaker
The demand is just there now.
00:08:31
Speaker
People are going to pay it.
00:08:33
Speaker
And $5,000 feels like a good deal for a lot of people, especially when my dialed in was $9,000.
00:08:40
Speaker
The price has just changed.
00:08:41
Speaker
But –
00:08:48
Speaker
There's just different attitude in the hobby now.
00:08:51
Speaker
And that's actually... Pricing is the most obvious change, but I think the biggest change is just the attitude in the hobby.
00:08:59
Speaker
People have changed their outlook.
00:09:00
Speaker
It felt like pinball was dying for a long time.
00:09:04
Speaker
And it felt like we were just holding on and keeping it alive and making it work.
00:09:09
Speaker
And it was almost like this club aspect.
00:09:12
Speaker
But now it's a community.
00:09:14
Speaker
And now it is...
00:09:17
Speaker
It feels like a real industry again, and it feels like it's legitimately growing.
00:09:22
Speaker
And, you know, pinball is just it's on the rise.
00:09:26
Speaker
It's not people want to talk about bubbles and all that, but it's it is growing.
00:09:31
Speaker
I mean, there's no denying that there's more people in it now than there has been for quite some
Pinball's Resurgence and Community Growth
00:09:35
Speaker
time.
00:09:35
Speaker
So why?
00:09:36
Speaker
Why do you think that is?
00:09:39
Speaker
Like what draws people – see, I'm actually a relative newcomer to it, but I just – I'm kind of random that I – how I got into pinball.
00:09:48
Speaker
But what is the mass appeal for people when there's so many options out there for entertainment?
00:09:56
Speaker
I think that's actually – so the word there you use, entertainment, I think that's actually what it is, is people are starting to find their entertainment outside the house again.
00:10:08
Speaker
I think –
00:10:09
Speaker
We went through our fascination of the in-home entertainment.
00:10:12
Speaker
I mean, we still have it.
00:10:14
Speaker
We all have Netflix and we still have the game consoles and stuff.
00:10:17
Speaker
But I think they've become so common now that it's a little bit more exciting to kind of get out and get together again.
00:10:27
Speaker
It's not so exciting to play online.
00:10:29
Speaker
Like for a while, that was super cool.
00:10:30
Speaker
Like...
00:10:31
Speaker
If you remember the early days of Xbox Live or playing games online with a headset and friends, especially some of the early Call of Duty games or things like that, it was the coolest thing in the world to be able to do that.
00:10:45
Speaker
It's now just common.
00:10:47
Speaker
And now it feels cool again to meet up and play some games together.
00:10:51
Speaker
And pinball lends itself so well to that.
00:10:53
Speaker
The rise of all the leagues get people out even more.
00:10:56
Speaker
You can just look at the IFPA numbers and the amount of people that are in it.
00:11:01
Speaker
just to see it's bringing people out.
00:11:03
Speaker
So I think the social aspect and just the fact that people are once again looking for entertainment outside the home is really fueling that rise of barcades and just pinball in general.
00:11:15
Speaker
So it's been nice to see.
00:11:16
Speaker
Do you think it's also fueled by being a digital age now that we want something more tangible to play with?
00:11:25
Speaker
Yeah, I think so.
00:11:28
Speaker
I think when we play, we want to play differently than we live.
00:11:33
Speaker
And so that's probably a pretty good observation.
00:11:37
Speaker
You know, we want our games not to feel like the rest of our day.
00:11:41
Speaker
So a physical game, I mean, board games have even made a comeback too.
00:11:49
Speaker
They're getting pretty complex and
00:11:51
Speaker
uh, pretty crazy.
00:11:52
Speaker
So that, that probably is a part of it as well.
00:11:57
Speaker
I think what you said was really insightful in saying that we want to play differently than we work.
00:12:02
Speaker
I'm actually old enough that I remember getting our first computer in the eighties and it costs like $5,000 back then, which is still kind of a crazy amount when you think about it, but getting on the computer was a novelty and
00:12:17
Speaker
It was completely different.
00:12:19
Speaker
But you're right.
00:12:20
Speaker
So many of us are so tapped into computers and tapped into technology that it's really healthier for us to step back from that.
00:12:29
Speaker
I never considered that as a possible rise to this.
00:12:33
Speaker
Right.
00:12:33
Speaker
Well, do you remember being blown away by some of the early adventure games like King's Quest or Space Quest or something?
00:12:40
Speaker
And they were so exciting.
00:12:41
Speaker
And if you show that to a kid now...
00:12:44
Speaker
They don't have that excitement.
00:12:46
Speaker
They might enjoy it and they might think it's fun to figure out the puzzles and what to type in and click on or whatever.
00:12:52
Speaker
But they just don't get wrapped up into it because it's so common and
00:12:58
Speaker
They want something different now.
00:13:00
Speaker
It's interesting.
00:13:00
Speaker
Well, when I was a kid, so I grew up in the 80s.
00:13:03
Speaker
So I was born in 74, grew up in the 80s.
00:13:06
Speaker
That was when that was the heyday of arcades with actual games that came out.
00:13:11
Speaker
And when you saw Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, you'd never seen that before.
00:13:15
Speaker
I interacted with something on the screen was something you never saw.
00:13:20
Speaker
And so it was such a novelty.
00:13:22
Speaker
And when these games came out, you didn't have the access of, I'm stuck on this level.
00:13:28
Speaker
I need to go into Google it because Google didn't exist.
00:13:32
Speaker
And so you basically had to ask your friends, hey, how did you get past this?
00:13:35
Speaker
And that was kind of a community there to say, hey, what did you do?
00:13:40
Speaker
How do you win now?
00:13:43
Speaker
I would say the majority of people just buy a game and get a walkthrough.
00:13:46
Speaker
They just Google walkthrough.
00:13:48
Speaker
And so there's following someone else's footsteps, but you can't really do that with pinball.
00:13:53
Speaker
No, you have to figure it out.
00:13:57
Speaker
Well, and the other thing you, I want to rewind back to what you were saying earlier is at one point it felt like the hobby was dead and you guys were just trying to keep it alive.
00:14:06
Speaker
I think we can see that to this day.
00:14:09
Speaker
And the reason I say this is when I got in the hobby about five years ago, the first pinball machine that came into my life, I didn't necessarily own it, was Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
00:14:20
Speaker
And I love the theme.
00:14:21
Speaker
That's like one of my dream themes.
00:14:23
Speaker
And I started playing it and I kind of got let down because it's fun to shoot.
00:14:28
Speaker
But once you've collected the four turtles and start the multiball, there's not really much more to it.
00:14:33
Speaker
All right, so I started to do a lot more research before I bought my first pinball machine and I ran into videos from from you Jeff about how to like wax your taxi.
00:14:45
Speaker
Yeah, and one of the other guys I watched a lot of was Chris Bucci.
00:14:51
Speaker
I don't know if you know this guy.
00:14:53
Speaker
Yeah, it's like Spider.
00:14:56
Speaker
His name is like Spider or something, but I know he does that Bucci's arcade videos.
00:14:59
Speaker
And it's got like the cheesy, like 90s, like intro music.
00:15:02
Speaker
I love it.
00:15:04
Speaker
But yeah, he does all his games.
00:15:05
Speaker
He did a full in-depth on like Big Bang Bar and all that jazz.
00:15:10
Speaker
They're good videos.
00:15:11
Speaker
And those videos are all from like 10, 11 years ago.
00:15:15
Speaker
And so I think where you guys are trying to keep it alive, it helped jumpstart this new generation as well, because then we had content to go back to.
00:15:24
Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
00:15:26
Speaker
There's an older podcast that it wasn't a pinball podcast.
00:15:29
Speaker
It was actually a video game podcast, but it's called A Life Well Wasted.
00:15:36
Speaker
And if you listen to the Steve Ritchie interview on that, it's after he's left Stern.
00:15:43
Speaker
And most of it is talks about how he's going deaf and how...
00:15:48
Speaker
he sounds super depressed and pinball's dying and it's going to be dead.
00:15:52
Speaker
It's amazing to hear how different his tone is then to what it is now.
00:15:59
Speaker
Steve Ritchie loves pinball again and he loves doing what he's doing.
00:16:03
Speaker
It's a life, a life well wasted.
00:16:06
Speaker
Just find the episode of Steve Ritchie.
00:16:07
Speaker
It's,
00:16:08
Speaker
amazing to hear the shift in tone.
00:16:11
Speaker
I still remember listening to that episode, putting Christmas lights on my house, thinking, yeah, Pinball's probably going to fade out as far as new games go.
00:16:20
Speaker
It's just going to happen, but it's okay.
00:16:23
Speaker
We'll keep it alive.
00:16:24
Speaker
And it's just, I don't worry about that anymore.
00:16:26
Speaker
Which is really funny because you look at it now and how many titles do we have coming out a year from
00:16:32
Speaker
multiple companies that didn't exist more than five years ago.
00:16:36
Speaker
It's just insane to see where the hobby has come from since then.
00:16:40
Speaker
Yeah, it's, it's, it's incredible.
00:16:42
Speaker
If you look at exactly what you're talking about, when I got into pinball, I actually watched two documentaries.
00:16:48
Speaker
And so I got into pinball three, four years ago.
00:16:51
Speaker
And one documentary I watched was, uh, it's called the way of the puck, which is actually, it's these guys trying to keep air hockey alive, like competitive air hockey.
00:17:02
Speaker
And on the whole of it, you look at their passion and it's pretty amazing, but it's pretty sad that their world doesn't exist anymore.
00:17:10
Speaker
And then of course I found special one lit and, and you look at that and it looks like the apocalypse.
00:17:17
Speaker
I mean, it starts with a whole bunch of dead pinball machines in a field somewhere and
00:17:22
Speaker
And then it ends with a whole bunch of dead pinball machines in the field.
00:17:26
Speaker
And I, I started thinking, wow, okay, so I'm getting into a hobby that is dead.
00:17:32
Speaker
Um, maybe I'll just start listening to some podcasts and so I can figure out what was good about it.
00:17:36
Speaker
And then I found your pit, your podcast.
00:17:38
Speaker
And so.
00:17:39
Speaker
It was just interesting to see that that was a snapshot of an era when it was probably the nadir of pinball and the popularity.
00:17:48
Speaker
And since then, we are in the new golden age of pinball.
00:17:51
Speaker
And I would argue what we've seen in the last eight years of pinball, it rivals what they had in the 90s.
00:17:59
Speaker
And we're on the ups, ups slide as opposed to the downslide.
00:18:04
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, there's stuff that is happening now that just...
00:18:08
Speaker
it points to so much healthier of an ecosystem for the companies and for the players.
00:18:14
Speaker
It's just much, much better now.
00:18:17
Speaker
Well, and I think the interesting part about pinball as well is the fact that it's been around almost 100 years now in the mechanical form that we see now.
00:18:27
Speaker
I think it just goes to prove, yes, as technology advances, pinball is still going to come back around.
00:18:34
Speaker
And I don't know if it's because you have these generations that grow up with it, and then it kind of dies off.
00:18:40
Speaker
And then those generations go, well, where did it go?
00:18:42
Speaker
And so they start to bring it back, and it continues.
00:18:45
Speaker
is cultivated within their kids.
00:18:47
Speaker
And that comes back.
00:18:48
Speaker
And I mean, we see the, the, the dying off and the coming back.
00:18:51
Speaker
I mean, they said that pinball was going to die back in the early eighties when they, our first arcade machines were coming out and they were fighting just to stay relevant.
00:19:00
Speaker
It basically did die.
00:19:01
Speaker
Like with the rise of arcades.
00:19:04
Speaker
Uh, I remember going to the arcade at the local mall and they had a flash, um, in the corner.
00:19:11
Speaker
I never put one quarter in it.
00:19:13
Speaker
because I thought, oh, I'm going to lose my quarter in about three seconds.
00:19:17
Speaker
However, I'd put it in Donkey Kong and die in three seconds.
00:19:20
Speaker
We wouldn't really consider that a loss.
00:19:22
Speaker
But it really was, it was in hibernation from 83 to about, you know, 89.
00:19:29
Speaker
Well, then you had a giant leap forward then.
00:19:31
Speaker
I mean, look at Adam's family in 92 selling the most units any pinball machine had sold at that point in time.
00:19:38
Speaker
Before that, it was Spirit of 76 with like 12,000 pinball machines.
00:19:42
Speaker
And that was from 1976.
00:19:43
Speaker
And then we died off again towards the end of the 90s through the 2000s.
00:19:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:52
Speaker
Now you get to 2010 and it starts building steam again.
00:19:55
Speaker
And I think we'll see these rollercoaster waves with the hobby, regardless of what happens.
00:20:00
Speaker
I know that you said that we felt like it was dying off, but I don't think we'll ever get to that point.
00:20:07
Speaker
And I could be wrong, but...
00:20:09
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not I don't know.
Challenges in Competitive Pinball
00:20:12
Speaker
I everything's cyclical like there's there's pinball is a hobby and hobbies enjoy their times of fascinations and, you know, getting ignored to some degree, but yeah.
00:20:26
Speaker
I think the hardcore base has expanded enough that it's just going to be in a better spot for longer periods of time when it finds those good spots.
00:20:34
Speaker
But yeah, it's always going to have a little bit of an ebb and flow effect to it.
00:20:40
Speaker
I just don't worry about it dying like I used to, at least.
00:20:43
Speaker
Well, the interesting part with this spike versus any other spike of pinball history, and I know that you've discussed this before with Jessica on your podcast, but it's now in a home market.
00:20:52
Speaker
I know Steve Kirk was saying back in the day, like, one day we'll see pinball machines as a home piece instead of just an arcade piece.
00:21:00
Speaker
I think that's another thing that really helps, too.
00:21:03
Speaker
Once it's gotten into the home, it will grow better roots, so to speak.
00:21:08
Speaker
Right, right.
00:21:09
Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
00:21:11
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good callback to that.
00:21:15
Speaker
He was very smart to see that way back then.
00:21:19
Speaker
So Jeff, what don't you like about the current environment of pinball that has changed since you got into it?
00:21:31
Speaker
Not necessarily don't like, but what is your least favorite aspect of it?
00:21:36
Speaker
That's hard to say because I'm pretty happy with most stuff.
00:21:41
Speaker
I've really liked...
00:21:43
Speaker
You know what?
00:21:44
Speaker
Actually, the Whopper fascination, the points fascination kind of bums me out a little bit because I see people lose sight of what they're actually playing for, and that's fun.
00:21:59
Speaker
When they're playing to just juice their world ranking, it's weird to me because your ranking might be higher, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're any better.
00:22:10
Speaker
And
00:22:14
Speaker
there's sometimes just shenanigans that go on with that people treating each other poorly in tournaments or tournament situations.
00:22:24
Speaker
I love competitive pinball, but yeah, there's just some things around it that people get a little odd about that I'm not super happy about.
00:22:36
Speaker
I do worry about sometimes the,
00:22:41
Speaker
build quality of product, I've had some issues with some machines.
00:22:45
Speaker
I understand that that's part of inflation is you can either cut quality or you can raise cost.
00:22:51
Speaker
But I feel like we get it on both ends a little bit.
00:22:54
Speaker
So I do worry about that some.
00:22:55
Speaker
That doesn't affect my enjoyment of playing pinball so much.
00:22:58
Speaker
So I don't want to talk too much about that.
00:23:03
Speaker
The other thing, and this isn't a super widespread problem, but
00:23:11
Speaker
I think a lot of people want to use pinball as a ability to, I don't know how to put this in words, but like be someone different than they really are.
00:23:28
Speaker
And that's not unique to pinball.
00:23:31
Speaker
It's just, I don't know.
00:23:32
Speaker
I feel like people are like using pinball to try and
00:23:36
Speaker
popularize themselves in some weird way.
00:23:38
Speaker
Do you know what I'm saying?
00:23:39
Speaker
I don't know how to explain that.
00:23:40
Speaker
That's weird.
00:23:42
Speaker
They're trying to look cool in forums.
00:23:43
Speaker
They're trying to be cool at events and stuff.
00:23:46
Speaker
I can see that.
00:23:48
Speaker
I can kind of see what you're talking about there.
00:23:50
Speaker
Yeah, it just kind of bums me out.
00:23:51
Speaker
Like, let's just get together.
00:23:52
Speaker
Let's just play.
00:23:54
Speaker
And I think seriously, the number one rule of pinball is just like, be cool.
00:23:57
Speaker
Like, just be cool.
00:23:58
Speaker
Like, treat each other right.
00:24:00
Speaker
And most stuff will take care of itself from there.
00:24:02
Speaker
And there's just a few people that haven't figured out how to do that.
00:24:07
Speaker
Well, it's funny that you mentioned that with like the personalities and stuff like that.
00:24:13
Speaker
I think it made me chuckle like, was it a month or two ago when Jack Danger did the stuff with Jeffree Star?
00:24:20
Speaker
And to us, Christopher Franchi is like a really big icon right now in the pinball hobby because of the artwork he's been doing and how fantastic it looks.
00:24:29
Speaker
And Chris had posted that he was in the bar with them, but he could not even get close.
00:24:37
Speaker
And Jack had seen that and said, come on over, Chris Franchi.
00:24:40
Speaker
And then like all the Jeffree Star fans.
00:24:42
Speaker
people that were in chat watching the stream as they played pinball was like, who the craps Christopher Franchi?
00:24:48
Speaker
Like, why should we care about this?
00:24:50
Speaker
And so I think it brings to a point that yes, like Christopher is an awesome dude and we all respect him and whatnot and what the art that he does.
00:25:01
Speaker
But once you boil it down to, to, to the base, no one knows who he is outside of pinball.
00:25:09
Speaker
And that's just the cold hard facts.
00:25:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:11
Speaker
Right.
00:25:12
Speaker
I mean, you could even, I doubt if you walked up to anyone on the street and said, Hey, do you know who Roger Sharp is?
00:25:17
Speaker
Like Roger Sharp's probably the most iconic name in pinball.
00:25:21
Speaker
I don't know if you'd get much of a response.
00:25:23
Speaker
So I agree with you that we need to kind of like settle down.
00:25:27
Speaker
Some of us need to be like,
00:25:30
Speaker
chill out because we just need to get along because it's kind of crazy that we're using our status to to make different big fish in a small pod yeah sure but that that's not unique to pinball either so you get people who no no no it's not a pinball problem it's it's just a you know they find a you know video games will do the same thing they'll get an avatar and they'll be a bully or an aggressive person online and
00:25:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:57
Speaker
All I'm saying is I'm just seeing that rise a little bit more.
00:25:59
Speaker
And I think over time that will moderate.
00:26:02
Speaker
I think people will shout that down.
00:26:04
Speaker
It just happens in a growing hobby.
00:26:06
Speaker
There's just more space to act out a little bit.
00:26:08
Speaker
Well, that's what the nice part about our hobby.
00:26:10
Speaker
It's so small that you can't, you can shout it down, so to speak.
00:26:14
Speaker
You know, it kind of fixes itself over time if it's becoming out of control.
00:26:19
Speaker
So.
00:26:20
Speaker
Well, they move on.
00:26:21
Speaker
Eventually people tire of it and of their drama and they move on.
00:26:25
Speaker
correct.
00:26:26
Speaker
While we're speaking about longevity of pinball, and that's kind of our theme for this episode, I want to know, Jeff, what certain titles make you feel like they never grow old that give you that longevity for your collection?
00:26:41
Speaker
Um, what it is about a more specific titles.
00:26:44
Speaker
I, I missed what you were asking.
00:26:46
Speaker
What about the games?
00:26:47
Speaker
You can use specific titles, examples, but I feel me layouts and themes and stuff.
00:26:55
Speaker
What, what lends to that?
00:26:56
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
00:26:58
Speaker
Sure.
00:26:59
Speaker
Um, so yeah, like it's, it's, it's hard cause the, uh,
00:27:05
Speaker
There's so many layouts that are similar, especially when you're dealing with fan layouts.
00:27:11
Speaker
It's funny how one game will feel like a dog and one game will feel...
00:27:16
Speaker
Amazing like Lord of the Rings and Sopranos are very very similar layouts if you overlay them It's scary how similar they are but Sopranos is fun to play on a location once in a while but Lord of the Rings is a game people hunt down and have a hard time letting go of and so the layouts
00:27:41
Speaker
one thing um but there's there is a feeling of i think satisfaction that comes from not just the rules because there's games that have great rules that maybe have a crummy layout and you don't want to play them like for me i i don't like batman 66 at all i think the layout sucks but it has fantastic rule set
00:28:04
Speaker
So it's the marriage of those two that come together just right.
00:28:09
Speaker
And when that happens, I just don't get bored.
00:28:13
Speaker
I don't get bored of the game chasing high scores when that combo is right.
00:28:19
Speaker
Like I mentioned that I've been addicted to Spider-Man lately.
00:28:22
Speaker
That's a game with a very basic layout.
00:28:24
Speaker
It's got a lot to shoot for, but it's basically Steve Ritchie's take on Attack from Mars.
00:28:31
Speaker
with a cross shot.
00:28:33
Speaker
And so it's not anything fancy, but the rules are deceptively deep on that, not overly complex, but they're deceptively deep.
00:28:43
Speaker
And I just keep coming back.
00:28:46
Speaker
You can play it, um, on a very simple base level or it's like, Oh, I'm just going to, you know, hammer away at the villains, or you can go through the modes and having those options.
00:28:56
Speaker
Um,
00:28:58
Speaker
just lets, lets me approach it how I want to that day.
00:29:01
Speaker
Um, and then when the shots are enjoyable, it just, I just keep coming back to it.
00:29:06
Speaker
Had that game for, you know, since it was new, new and I, I love it.
00:29:12
Speaker
And I've had other games that have come and gone that probably had objectively better layouts or, um,
00:29:21
Speaker
You know, probably considered better rule sets, but they just weren't married together as well.
00:29:29
Speaker
Rules and layouts as that game.
00:29:32
Speaker
They're just in perfect harmony with each other.
00:29:34
Speaker
Yeah, I think you're right.
00:29:36
Speaker
I actually have two games next to each other.
00:29:39
Speaker
One of them is Tron and the other one is X-Men LE.
00:29:43
Speaker
And they are, it's exactly the same.
00:29:45
Speaker
Actually, X-Men, you would argue, has more to it.
00:29:49
Speaker
But that didn't capture the imagination of everybody like Tron does.
00:29:54
Speaker
And really, if you look at X-Men, aside from the sound, which is arguably one of the worst productions Stern has done, aside from Wolverine trying to
00:30:05
Speaker
get it on with the game.
00:30:07
Speaker
But it's just doesn't, it doesn't have that same vibe.
00:30:11
Speaker
And I think it's that perfect nexus of theme music and layout and rules where, and also, you know, everything together kind of coming together.
00:30:22
Speaker
Imagine having total nuclear knowledge issue without the soundtrack.
00:30:28
Speaker
Yeah, it would hurt it.
00:30:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:32
Speaker
Well, I think that also is what lends to longevity and pinball, at least in my collection.
00:30:38
Speaker
Some of the games that I have are games that I feel like I can somewhat attain the final mode, not consistently, but it's something that still challenges me.
00:30:48
Speaker
And I can go out there and do it.
00:30:50
Speaker
Like my favorite is Attack for Mars.
00:30:52
Speaker
I love the humor.
00:30:54
Speaker
I love the artwork except for the lady's hand down between the flippers, but I'm not going to go off on that right now.
00:31:02
Speaker
But everything about that machine is just perfect in my eyes.
00:31:05
Speaker
It gives me a challenge.
00:31:06
Speaker
And even though it's kind of doing the same thing over and over, it still feels different every time.
00:31:12
Speaker
You have a different way to approach it.
00:31:14
Speaker
And there's just something about the missions in the bottom middle too, the six missions that you've got to complete on top of it to rule the universe.
00:31:24
Speaker
And I don't know, I think theme lends to it, but it doesn't necessarily hinder it.
00:31:30
Speaker
Because a game like The Shadow that I really enjoy, I would love to have them in my collection.
00:31:36
Speaker
But the theme doesn't really speak to me because I've never seen The Shadow and I've heard Satold Turd.
00:31:40
Speaker
I can't really attest to that.
00:31:43
Speaker
Don't watch it.
00:31:44
Speaker
It's actually better playing it without it.
00:31:46
Speaker
Kind of like my Johnny Mnemonic, it was a lot better to play it than to watch it.
00:31:50
Speaker
Just pretend it's The Matrix.
00:31:52
Speaker
OK.
00:31:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:53
Speaker
So Attack from Mars.
00:31:55
Speaker
So if you're going to ask me what my favorite Pidmall machine of all time is, I'll probably say Twilight Zone.
00:32:00
Speaker
But if you're going to ask me what I think the best Pidmall machine of all time is, I'll probably say Attack from Mars.
00:32:04
Speaker
Why is that?
00:32:04
Speaker
Why is the two different from that?
00:32:08
Speaker
Um, twilight zone.
00:32:10
Speaker
I just like playing the most.
00:32:11
Speaker
I it's one of the first games I really lusted after and went and got, by the way, it was $1,700 shipped in from California.
00:32:20
Speaker
It was just a different time, man.
00:32:21
Speaker
Um, anyway, uh, and, uh,
00:32:26
Speaker
It just has the sound, the music.
00:32:29
Speaker
It's big.
00:32:30
Speaker
It's got shots all over the place.
00:32:32
Speaker
Now, playing in a tournament setting, it's pretty bland.
00:32:35
Speaker
You're just going to go after your multi-baller or whatever, and you're not really going to play the modes out.
00:32:39
Speaker
But if you're playing the game the way that Lawler designed it, it just has so much going on.
00:32:46
Speaker
It's just crazy.
00:32:47
Speaker
I just think it's...
00:32:50
Speaker
I just love it.
00:32:50
Speaker
I've never got sick of shooting that thing.
00:32:54
Speaker
He used every inch perfectly.
00:32:57
Speaker
But I find Attack from Mars is like the most pure pinball experience in the modern era.
00:33:03
Speaker
All the shots are perfect.
00:33:05
Speaker
perfectly dialed in.
00:33:09
Speaker
Um, like nothing feels off or wrong on that.
00:33:12
Speaker
It, every shot flows just magically.
00:33:15
Speaker
Um, the rules are great.
00:33:18
Speaker
There's fun little hidden things to find in there.
00:33:21
Speaker
And it's, it's plenty of challenge to get to the end of it, but it's straightforward as well.
00:33:28
Speaker
So, um,
00:33:30
Speaker
It's just, it's hard to criticize it.
00:33:34
Speaker
And there's not things in the game that punish you for playing well.
00:33:39
Speaker
A lot of pinball machines do that to eat your quarters.
00:33:42
Speaker
Attack for Mars is just, if you miss your shots, you'll get punished, but it won't punish you for playing well.
00:33:47
Speaker
And so it's just, I think it's perfect.
00:33:50
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:33:51
Speaker
I totally agree.
00:33:52
Speaker
So that kind of moves into the next topic is you, I know when you first got into the topic, you were turning over games fairly regularly.
00:34:00
Speaker
But how do you mix having the all-time great games that you want to hold on to and also keeping your collection fresh and interesting?
00:34:12
Speaker
Yeah, so for me, I...
00:34:15
Speaker
I mean, I have the greats that are great to me.
00:34:19
Speaker
Like I have Attack from Mars and Twilight Zone.
00:34:22
Speaker
And, you know, those are a couple that people would always point to if you're building like a cookie cutter collection of the great pinball machines.
00:34:31
Speaker
But, you know, I've had...
00:34:34
Speaker
all of the A-list games over time, like the Indiana Jones and Adams family.
00:34:39
Speaker
And you can, you can go down the list, but I, I was having probably one or two games coming a week and going a week for, for quite some time I've had,
00:34:50
Speaker
well over 100 games come and go.
00:34:53
Speaker
And really what it was is I wasn't keeping anything for what it was, what the game was itself.
00:35:00
Speaker
I just kept what I liked.
00:35:01
Speaker
And what I noticed just got the most play.
00:35:08
Speaker
So something like Indiana Jones, I worked hard to get one.
00:35:13
Speaker
And it surprised me a little bit when I sold it.
00:35:17
Speaker
it just wasn't getting played.
00:35:20
Speaker
And so I let it go.
00:35:23
Speaker
And then, you know, when I got like ACDC, for example, I,
00:35:30
Speaker
I got it brand new in box.
00:35:32
Speaker
I thought, you know, I played it at a show and I fell in love with it at the show.
00:35:36
Speaker
So I bought it.
00:35:38
Speaker
I thought maybe it would stick around a year and I still have it and I don't think it's going anywhere.
00:35:43
Speaker
So I don't always know what's going to be that long term stay.
00:35:49
Speaker
But as soon as I have no desire to turn it on as I walk past it, it starts creeping towards the trade block or seller's block or whatever.
00:35:59
Speaker
And I have some weird ones that have been around for a long time.
00:36:01
Speaker
I've had Bride of Pinbot for like eight or nine years now.
00:36:04
Speaker
That's probably a long stay for that game for most people, but I still like it.
00:36:08
Speaker
It's a fun game.
00:36:09
Speaker
I like the gimmick game, the novelty games where you don't have to overthink it.
00:36:15
Speaker
You're just having fun.
00:36:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:18
Speaker
And I've made it like really hard, but yeah.
00:36:23
Speaker
Well, I know what you mean too, because they're like one of the big games I wanted when I first started in the hobby was fishtails.
00:36:29
Speaker
I don't know what it was about that game, but it really spoke to me.
00:36:31
Speaker
I got it.
00:36:32
Speaker
I played it for about a month and then it was just like, I don't hate the game, but it definitely is for a small collection.
00:36:39
Speaker
It's not one you should have in a small collection in my personal opinion, because it's really just left ramp, right ramp, right up the middle.
00:36:47
Speaker
And so a game that I was like, thought would be something in my collection for quite some time because of the theme and because of the play of it ended up only being around for like three months, if that.
00:36:59
Speaker
And my son killed me for it.
00:37:00
Speaker
He's like, I can't believe you're getting rid of that.
00:37:02
Speaker
I mean, he loves fishing.
00:37:04
Speaker
That was like his thing.
00:37:05
Speaker
But it just if I don't have enough space just to hold on to pinball machines at this point.
00:37:10
Speaker
And so it just wasn't going to stay.
00:37:12
Speaker
So I get I get where you're coming from on that.
00:37:15
Speaker
yeah when i got fishtails i thought that was going to be staying around and it didn't ever make it out of the garage after the shop job down to the collection it moved on so same deal here and i had that i know the there's a lot of rant and rave right now about congo i own that one um and i can't it was the same thing for me once i got all shopped out and started playing it it was enjoyable but i just felt like there was better games out there to own in my collection and like i said
00:37:45
Speaker
It's one of those conundrums of if you have the space for 15 machines, then it's not that big of a deal to have a Congo.
00:37:51
Speaker
But if you only have space for four or five machines, that's one extra space that's being taken up, especially if you're walking by and going, I'd rather play my other three games than this lap, you know, than Congo at this point.
00:38:03
Speaker
I think also you can look at your games, and this is kind of where I'm living right now, is thinking, okay, if I didn't have that game, even if I had to bring some money to the table, could I leverage that value into something else?
00:38:15
Speaker
And when you look at it and say, well, like,
00:38:19
Speaker
The game that I bought, kind of sight unseen and really have never really bonded with is Shrek.
00:38:25
Speaker
It's a fun game.
00:38:26
Speaker
It's interesting.
00:38:27
Speaker
It's different than the other ones.
00:38:29
Speaker
But in the back of my mind, I think I could just dump a few more thousand dollars into that and get something I really want.
00:38:36
Speaker
And so if something is just being a placeholder, then I say, you're right, just move it on.
00:38:42
Speaker
It used to be harder to move.
00:38:44
Speaker
I mean, I'm sorry.
00:38:46
Speaker
I think it's a little bit harder to move games these days, though, because there's more anxiety that you won't be able to get it back.
00:38:52
Speaker
One, because pricing has gone crazy.
00:38:56
Speaker
I could think of a ton of games that I sold that to buy it back now would just be crazy.
00:39:03
Speaker
I'd pay double to get it back what I sold it for.
00:39:06
Speaker
or just that the demand is so much higher than the supply, it's a long time before it comes around again.
00:39:12
Speaker
Back when you could hop onto classifieds and just take your pick, it was super easy to flip a game that you just weren't having that much fun anymore.
00:39:24
Speaker
Or if you just wanted to shake something up, you could sell your favorite game and you could buy it back at six months.
00:39:30
Speaker
It wasn't a big deal.
00:39:31
Speaker
It's just not that luxury is gone now.
00:39:34
Speaker
Well, that's what's crazy to me being in this hobby.
00:39:35
Speaker
When I started five years ago, I remember kind of trying to go through what I wanted.
00:39:40
Speaker
And the first one I set my sights on was World Cup soccer.
00:39:43
Speaker
And when I bought that, it was pretty hammered, but I got for 600 bucks.
00:39:47
Speaker
I was pretty proud of myself.
00:39:49
Speaker
And it worked.
00:39:50
Speaker
I could turn it on, but I had to go through it.
00:39:54
Speaker
And at that point in time, like you said, you could kind of have your pick.
00:39:57
Speaker
I saw a Jurassic Park for 1500 on KSL.
00:40:00
Speaker
And I thought that's ridiculously priced.
00:40:02
Speaker
Like my wife, that was one, that's still one of her dream themes and we still have never owned it, but she wanted that.
00:40:08
Speaker
And I was like, I fought with myself for a month and it sat there for a while.
00:40:13
Speaker
And then I finally just decided against it.
00:40:15
Speaker
And now I wish I would have bought it because what are they're like, 2,500 and you still have to have them shipped in, at least in Utah.
00:40:21
Speaker
You don't see them very often here.
00:40:22
Speaker
It's weird, but.
00:40:25
Speaker
Yeah, that's one of my games I actually regret selling is my Jurassic Park.
00:40:29
Speaker
I sold it for double what I paid for it, but now to buy it, it's still quite a bit more than I even sold it for then.
00:40:36
Speaker
I think that wraps it up for our interview questions that we had.
00:40:39
Speaker
Did you have any others for Jeff Scott?
00:40:43
Speaker
No, I think that's
Licensing and Creativity in Pinball
00:40:44
Speaker
good.
00:40:44
Speaker
Let's move on to the news from American Pinball, or at least the themes that they're working on.
00:40:52
Speaker
Yeah, so it was officially confirmed...
00:40:55
Speaker
the American pinball had secured the licenses for Valkyrie, Robin Hood, Poker Run, and Sherlock Holmes.
00:41:03
Speaker
And my personal opinion when I saw this was they're pulling a Disney.
00:41:09
Speaker
And when I say that is they're trying to buy licenses that have some familiarity to them that don't necessarily come with the licensing costs.
00:41:17
Speaker
That's what I thought.
00:41:18
Speaker
It's interesting.
00:41:20
Speaker
It's a free brand is what it is.
00:41:24
Speaker
The funny thing is I'm looking at all these four and I think Valkyrie could be interesting depending on who actually does it.
00:41:32
Speaker
If you think about either the concept art for Alice in Wonderland or a magic girl or something like that.
00:41:40
Speaker
If they did something like Valkyrie, that could be something interesting in the right hands.
00:41:45
Speaker
Robin Hood,
00:41:46
Speaker
They try to reboot this thing every five years, and I'm sorry, unless you're going to have Kevin Kotzner on there with his bald mullet, then I think there's no chance that thing's going to fly.
00:41:57
Speaker
Poker run, no one really cares about a poker pinball machine.
00:42:00
Speaker
It just doesn't work anymore.
00:42:02
Speaker
And Sherlock Holmes, really, it seems kind of like a dead option unless you're going to get Benedict Cumberbatch on there.
00:42:12
Speaker
Right.
00:42:13
Speaker
Even at that, some of those like –
00:42:16
Speaker
themes like Robin Hood or Sherlock Holmes have been done so many ways that it's really hard to find an identity with them.
00:42:25
Speaker
I mean, you can go to the $2 DVD bargain bins and you can see like animated Sherlock Holmes where it's like, there's some mice that is Sherlock Holmes animated series.
00:42:39
Speaker
And it's like some weird, you know,
00:42:45
Speaker
crazy take on Sherlock Holmes.
00:42:47
Speaker
And then next to it, you have some weird Chinese made animated Robin Hood that's just cheap, you know, 3D animation.
00:42:57
Speaker
And it just happens because, again, they're free licenses, as you were saying.
00:43:02
Speaker
But that...
00:43:04
Speaker
licenses is so hard to differentiate unless like scott was saying you can get benedict cumberbatch to do it but even then that feels like it's kind of a little bit beyond its peak um it's fast it's like releasing a game right exactly uh those aren't just it feels like a generic license even though it's
00:43:27
Speaker
I mean, there is a little bit of weight to Robin Hood.
00:43:30
Speaker
It's just I don't know who cares anymore.
00:43:32
Speaker
It's just been it's just been done so much and in so many ways.
00:43:35
Speaker
Well, I'm going to play devil's advocate just for a minute or two.
00:43:40
Speaker
Two of the best pinball machines, considerably the best pinball machines in all of pinball history are Attack from Mars and Medieval Madness.
00:43:48
Speaker
If you could take, I mean, I've heard people say that American is the new Bally Williams.
00:43:55
Speaker
I can't say yes or no to that, but I've heard some of that thrown around.
00:43:59
Speaker
Do you think that they could take Robin hood?
00:44:01
Speaker
Like they've taken attack from ours with all the cheesy B B, uh, alien movies or Sherlock Holmes with everything.
00:44:09
Speaker
Cause Sherlock Holmes is, uh,
00:44:12
Speaker
You don't have to know all the background history of Benedict Cumberbatch or Robert Downey Jr. and all that jazz.
00:44:18
Speaker
You could easily do, because everyone knows that's elementary Watson.
00:44:22
Speaker
You could easily do the humor meshed with the pinball machine, just like an attack from Mars.
00:44:27
Speaker
I think it could play out really well in that aspect, as long as they don't take it too seriously, but they don't go too silly either.
00:44:36
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
00:44:37
Speaker
Well, I'm going to push back a little bit on Attack from Mars.
00:44:41
Speaker
That was really a lazy ripoff of a movie that was coming out at the time, which was Mars Attacks.
00:44:47
Speaker
And I think people just associated that and thought, oh, this is a big budget movie.
00:44:52
Speaker
Oh, this is a pinball machine.
00:44:54
Speaker
It's got to be related somehow.
00:44:56
Speaker
And if you look at medieval madness, well, medieval madness is really Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
00:45:01
Speaker
And so they really are, they're borderline licenses without being that.
00:45:06
Speaker
I don't really see that.
00:45:07
Speaker
The same thing with American pinball.
00:45:09
Speaker
And if you look at the reason why Stern has, Stern has found the formula.
00:45:14
Speaker
It's like writing a Bon Jovi song.
00:45:16
Speaker
It's the same song, but some reason people buy it.
00:45:20
Speaker
And so if you look at the reason why they're pushing bands,
00:45:26
Speaker
and it's either a band or a movie or something like that that is tied to a theme, it's because it is successful.
00:45:34
Speaker
It sells because even if you look at The Beatles, which is arguably the most expensive license of all time.
00:45:42
Speaker
Okay, so here's the math on it.
00:45:44
Speaker
Let's just say that it's a million dollar license, which is, you know, he said it was what the first seven figure license.
00:45:49
Speaker
So let's just pretend it's a million dollars.
00:45:52
Speaker
If they sell 960 or 1,965 of them, that breaks down to $508 a machine.
00:46:01
Speaker
And so if you can make a machine that actually has some sort of license that is good and do it for 300 bucks a game, why would you not take that and immediately get that brand?
00:46:15
Speaker
Because they've already spent a billion dollars on marketing that brand as opposed to trying to plow your own turf.
00:46:24
Speaker
Dialed in is great, but I think everybody still kind of looks at it and says, well, the theme's not really my bag.
00:46:30
Speaker
And there's a reason why Lord of the Rings still holds up all these years later is because it is Lord of the Rings and not like Doodle Jump or something.
00:46:40
Speaker
Oh, Doodle Jump.
00:46:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:46
Speaker
I got eliminated on a tournament on that game.
00:46:47
Speaker
You had to say that.
00:46:49
Speaker
Oh, for some odd reason, I thought it was the mobile game that everyone was obsessed with like eight years ago.
00:46:54
Speaker
Oh, it's Doodle Bug that I got eliminated on.
00:46:57
Speaker
Doodle Jump was too close.
00:46:59
Speaker
No, that's fine.
00:47:01
Speaker
I don't know.
00:47:02
Speaker
I look at Stern right now, and don't get me wrong.
00:47:05
Speaker
I appreciate what Stern's doing.
00:47:06
Speaker
I really think that they are presenting a good product.
00:47:11
Speaker
But I feel like they've become stagnant in their layouts and stuff like that.
00:47:16
Speaker
I mean, honestly, everything they're putting out is good right now.
00:47:19
Speaker
But the last great hit they've had, ACDC, I mean, everyone can argue right now.
00:47:25
Speaker
You could say it's Batman 66.
00:47:27
Speaker
You could say it's Guardians of the Galaxy or whatever it may be.
00:47:31
Speaker
Walking Dead.
00:47:32
Speaker
Walking Dead.
00:47:33
Speaker
Yeah, Walking Dead.
00:47:34
Speaker
But when I look at...
00:47:38
Speaker
a Borg layout, I see very, a lot of similarities between each one of his games.
00:47:42
Speaker
I don't feel like there's a massive difference between each game to realize that we're heading in a different direction every time we see a pinball machine.
00:47:51
Speaker
And that's not a knock on Borg.
00:47:52
Speaker
That's just the fact that, you know, family outs are all pretty, they have to be laid out a certain way because of the shots that you have to take.
00:48:01
Speaker
And so you can't take too much risk without it feeling clunky and whatnot.
00:48:05
Speaker
But,
00:48:07
Speaker
I don't know.
00:48:07
Speaker
I just, I don't think, I don't think theme necessarily is what make or breaks a pinball machine at this point.
00:48:16
Speaker
Right.
00:48:16
Speaker
I mean, it's a big part of it for, uh, for some people like that, that are like their initial draw to it.
00:48:25
Speaker
But as far as like your enjoyment over the longterm, yeah, I understand.
00:48:31
Speaker
Well, are you going to have a Lord of the Rings downstairs or are you going to have a wheel of fortune?
00:48:37
Speaker
let's just assume that Wheel of Fortune has this amazing rule set.
00:48:41
Speaker
You're still going to want to look at something nice.
00:48:44
Speaker
True.
00:48:45
Speaker
But like I said, I keep kicking it back to like giant mnemonic and the shadow.
00:48:49
Speaker
And I guess the other thing that plays into that too is price.
00:48:51
Speaker
Do you want a giant mnemonic, a shadow, and possibly something else for the price of a Lord of the Rings?
00:48:57
Speaker
Or do you want to Lord of the Rings?
00:49:02
Speaker
I think most people would rather have
00:49:04
Speaker
one great machine as opposed to three mediocre ones but that that's my take yes and no i think it comes back to space and availability at that point too so yeah it goes in flux i think your um chain your taste will change over time um what what you want like i've lately been
00:49:27
Speaker
fading back to the older games.
00:49:29
Speaker
Like I've loved solid state and EM games, um, a lot lately.
00:49:35
Speaker
I think that's why TNA has been really scratching my itch.
00:49:40
Speaker
Um, like one of the games I really want to chase down as a skate ball.
00:49:44
Speaker
I tried and just missed one today, but, um, I don't know, like as your taste changes, I think you're, you're, uh,
00:49:55
Speaker
opinions on theme or the price tags of what comes with those things um it just gets shifted around a little bit and it might it might be a little bit cyclical like after after a while i might be ready for some of those really fast more modern take games again like say yeah give me these games just crank it up to 10 on speed and
00:50:16
Speaker
more modern themes and are bright and flashy.
00:50:19
Speaker
We'll see.
00:50:20
Speaker
I'm kind of right there with you too, Jeff.
00:50:22
Speaker
I guess my first game was an amazing Spider-Man by Gottlieb.
00:50:26
Speaker
And I actually liked the shots on it because I felt like I was just shooting different shots.
00:50:31
Speaker
And for being new to the hobby, I wasn't looking for the depth.
00:50:35
Speaker
I wasn't looking for, I mean, really the only complaint I had at that point was to have multi-ball.
00:50:41
Speaker
And I enjoyed the shots and whatnot.
00:50:44
Speaker
But it makes me curious.
00:50:47
Speaker
I would like to get my hands on a Beatles.
00:50:49
Speaker
I really think Beatles would help kind of like a TNA scratch that itch and feel that kind of not floatiness, but it's, I don't know, there's something that's appealing to one of those classic games that they're short, but they're still fun.
00:51:06
Speaker
See, I would be interested in the Beatles as a rethink.
00:51:09
Speaker
Because I know it's a re-theme already, but the 1964 Beatles does nothing for me.
00:51:16
Speaker
However, maybe a 1967 or 1969.
00:51:19
Speaker
But I looked at the song selection on that, and I am a Beatles fan.
00:51:23
Speaker
And I looked at that and thought, I'm not interested in any of these songs.
00:51:27
Speaker
Well, maybe Beatles is the new Wonelli.
00:51:30
Speaker
I don't know if they have to keep paying Dennis Norman now that he's gone.
00:51:34
Speaker
I don't know if he owns the rights to that layout or whatever.
00:51:37
Speaker
But maybe they'll just say, hey, we're going to start retheming Beatles for everything else we got out the door.
00:51:42
Speaker
And maybe they won't just because at this point, I mean, Beatles is kind of a high price tag and all that jazz.
00:51:48
Speaker
And it was the limited run of it and everything.
00:51:52
Speaker
If you remade it and made as many as you wanted, that kind of
00:51:56
Speaker
knocks Beatles down a peg besides the theme, I guess.
00:51:59
Speaker
Yeah, but sure.
00:52:00
Speaker
I mean, how, how many games are they really selling over 2000?
00:52:03
Speaker
I, I, although they said it's limited to 1964, that's probably pretty close to their run on most games.
00:52:13
Speaker
Now it's 1965 after poor Chris Franchi's got washed out and destroyed.
00:52:18
Speaker
They're building him a brand new one.
00:52:20
Speaker
So I don't know if that technically still counts as 1964, but.
00:52:25
Speaker
It's the CF edition.
00:52:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:27
Speaker
It's the, the under the, or not.
00:52:30
Speaker
That's for Christopher Franchi anyway, by the way.
00:52:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:33
Speaker
CFLE.
00:52:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:34
Speaker
I was singing the yellow submarine one, but.
00:52:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:37
Speaker
So moving on, uh, just wanted to do a quick shout out to Dennis Creasel from the eclectic gamers pinball podcast.
00:52:43
Speaker
His house got broken into this last couple of days and there was a bunch of stuff stolen.
00:52:49
Speaker
The pinball machine seems safe and I don't know how he's doing, but it looked like he got a brand new pinball machine put into his home during all this mess.
00:52:58
Speaker
Uh, I think he ended up getting a total nuclear annihilation.
00:53:00
Speaker
If I remember correctly, I could be wrong.
00:53:02
Speaker
He did.
00:53:03
Speaker
He did.
00:53:03
Speaker
Okay.
00:53:04
Speaker
And so, um,
00:53:07
Speaker
I guess, I don't know.
00:53:08
Speaker
My heart goes out to him.
00:53:10
Speaker
I live in a small town, so I don't have to worry.
00:53:13
Speaker
Well, we do get break-ins every once in a while, but it's funny when a break-in happens, it becomes like a citywide thing here, and everyone kind of like...
00:53:21
Speaker
catches the bad guy i don't know how else to put it and so i out there i don't know how it is out there but it reminds me of that episode of big bang theory where the guys get their stuff broken in and sheldon never feels safe like he's shoving the dresser against the front wall and stuff like that or the front door and i don't know i guess what i'm trying to say is my heart goes out to dennis that's gotta suck yeah it's that's you just feel violated it's it's horrible
00:53:47
Speaker
Sorry, Dennis.
00:53:48
Speaker
You're a good dude.
00:53:49
Speaker
I know you.
00:53:50
Speaker
We've played pinball together.
00:53:52
Speaker
I crushed you.
00:53:54
Speaker
Wow.
00:53:55
Speaker
Wow.
00:53:55
Speaker
That was very sincere.
00:53:57
Speaker
Sorry, dude.
00:53:59
Speaker
I still ruled you.
00:54:00
Speaker
I still destroyed it.
00:54:02
Speaker
Oh, my goodness.
00:54:04
Speaker
You got to have fun with Dennis.
00:54:05
Speaker
Dennis can talk a big game.
00:54:09
Speaker
So you got to let him have it back.
00:54:11
Speaker
I think that's the only way I'll beat you at pinball, Jeff, is to trash talk you into oblivion.
00:54:18
Speaker
I don't know about that.
00:54:19
Speaker
Speaking of trying to beat you at pinball, Scott sent us, me and Jeff, throughout the week as we were kind of discussing show notes and whatnot.
00:54:27
Speaker
Um, cowboy pinball.
00:54:29
Speaker
If you haven't seen this, I'm going to try to link it in the show notes, but I bet, I bet I could beat you at cowboy pinball.
00:54:34
Speaker
You want to, you want to try this out?
00:54:37
Speaker
There's, there's no chance.
00:54:38
Speaker
This is the ultimate dude.
00:54:40
Speaker
Hold my beer.
00:54:41
Speaker
I mean, I work at a hospital and that's, that's the standard joke.
00:54:44
Speaker
The two things that are said right before someone comes to the ER.
00:54:48
Speaker
is y'all check this out, hold my beer.
00:54:50
Speaker
And for some reason, they got 20 rednecks to go and stand in the middle of a rodeo and have a bull come chasing at them and they're supposed to not move.
00:54:59
Speaker
Yeah, it's, you never want to be the pop bumper for a bull.
00:55:03
Speaker
Yeah, no, there's not enough depends in the world to outfit enough cowboys to go out there.
00:55:08
Speaker
But you get a hundred bucks if you grab it, the hundred dollar bill off its giblets or its flank.
00:55:14
Speaker
I don't know what they called it.
00:55:15
Speaker
That is a special kind of stupid.
00:55:18
Speaker
Your deductible is way more than that.
00:55:20
Speaker
You gotta understand though, these people, I don't know where this was filmed.
00:55:24
Speaker
I can't remember if it was in Texas or whatnot.
00:55:26
Speaker
These small towns, this is what fun is.
00:55:32
Speaker
Sorry, my father.
00:55:34
Speaker
One of their favorite games was they would get drunk and then they would find a paddle and they would find a bull out in the middle of the field and they'd run up to the bull, slap the bull on the nuts with the paddle, and then run off and try not to get ran over.
00:55:50
Speaker
This is like Tommy Boy.
00:55:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:53
Speaker
It is what it is.
00:55:54
Speaker
And so, I don't know.
00:55:56
Speaker
Maybe that's why I enjoy pinball more because I don't have to worry about getting stabbed to death by a bullhorn.
00:56:01
Speaker
I don't know.
00:56:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:04
Speaker
So, I just run.
00:56:06
Speaker
I don't need $100.
00:56:06
Speaker
No, I wouldn't even get in the rink.
00:56:09
Speaker
Like, there's no way.
00:56:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:13
Speaker
Not even for $100.
00:56:14
Speaker
I mean, you'd have to dial that up a lot.
00:56:17
Speaker
Yeah, it'd have to be at least $200.
00:56:20
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think this is going to be a long-lived sport.
00:56:25
Speaker
Actually, I think that's actually been done at a lot of rodeos.
00:56:30
Speaker
I hear about cowboy pinball.
00:56:31
Speaker
But now, what if they put a Stern new pinball machine on the line?
00:56:37
Speaker
Maybe get that WWE that you've always been looking for?
00:56:42
Speaker
Maybe.
00:56:42
Speaker
Yeah, WWE.
00:56:44
Speaker
They have a few LEs left.
00:56:47
Speaker
You get on that, and we'll go from there.
00:56:48
Speaker
How about that, Scott?
00:56:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think I'm good.
00:56:51
Speaker
All right, well, moving on, let's get talking about the pinball betting that's starting to pop up.
00:56:57
Speaker
Everyone's trying to bet on the circuit finals.
00:57:02
Speaker
Either one of you in on this?
00:57:04
Speaker
I'm not a bettor.
00:57:06
Speaker
No, I'm not going to bet on pinball.
00:57:08
Speaker
It's just pinball is too cruel.
00:57:12
Speaker
The ball bounces the wrong way in basketball and screws you on bets all the time.
00:57:15
Speaker
It's sure to do it in pinball.
00:57:18
Speaker
Well, and I want to – Bo and Karen's actually posted this on his Facebook page, and I kind of agreed what he says.
00:57:24
Speaker
I'm going to quote it really quick.
00:57:26
Speaker
This is from his girlfriend, Kristen.
00:57:28
Speaker
It just seems best for all involved if independence is absolutely clear.
00:57:32
Speaker
Putting aside the fact that sports betting is still illegal in most states –
00:57:35
Speaker
Illinois is included.
00:57:36
Speaker
In most sports betting, your players aren't also the referees.
00:57:40
Speaker
They aren't the ones deciding which bats are legal or making sure what the lines are painted correctly on the court, etc.
00:57:46
Speaker
So it seems if we as a community are going to endorse betting on pinball, which I'm personally not for, it seems like we'd be better to get...
00:57:54
Speaker
it seems like we better get a lot more serious on the independence of those involved with setting up tournaments and those who compete.
00:58:01
Speaker
And it goes on a little bit more than that.
00:58:02
Speaker
But I never really thought of it until they had said that.
00:58:05
Speaker
And I was like, oh, yeah, that's kind of true.
00:58:07
Speaker
You could, it would be easily rigged, which I'm not saying we're going to do that.
00:58:12
Speaker
I'm not saying anyone would be willing to do that.
00:58:15
Speaker
But yeah, well, I think you have to in a sport that has betting.
00:58:20
Speaker
the athletes have to be compensated well, well above what they could possibly get by fixing something.
00:58:28
Speaker
Sure.
00:58:29
Speaker
Um, but one thing is with betting is there has to be a hundred percent integrity in the sport to make the bet better.
00:58:41
Speaker
I don't know, legit, valid.
00:58:43
Speaker
I don't know how to say it.
00:58:44
Speaker
But one thing that happens a lot, and I've seen it happen in pinball, and I've had an offer to do it too, is sometimes when players get to the finals, they just agree to split the pot, and they're not necessarily playing their hardest for the first, second, third, and fourth finish.
00:59:00
Speaker
They just kind of casually play out.
00:59:02
Speaker
that yeah because they're already and maybe someone or another will play a little bit harder because they do want the first place trophy but yeah i've seen it where it's just not that big of a deal for them i don't know if and there's no way to enforce it right like you can't tell how hard someone's actually playing so pinball is a little bit different and and there's a really good point being made about the rulings um
00:59:27
Speaker
Boy, if there's money being placed, it's crazy to think.
00:59:31
Speaker
Could you imagine if one of the players in the NBA Finals was also a ref?
00:59:38
Speaker
That's crazy.
00:59:38
Speaker
That is crazy.
00:59:40
Speaker
Well, and people are willing to sandbag for whopper points.
00:59:43
Speaker
I mean, I think someone would be more willing to sandbag for money at that point.
00:59:48
Speaker
Sure.
00:59:48
Speaker
So.
00:59:50
Speaker
Yeah, I just legitimately, I just don't see it being a huge issue.
00:59:56
Speaker
But I'm not a gambler, so I don't really understand why you really want to.
01:00:02
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:04
Speaker
Well, that pretty much wraps it up for the news.
01:00:06
Speaker
I don't know if you guys had anything else you wanted to talk about.
01:00:09
Speaker
Me personally, actually, I want to talk about one thing before we get going.
01:00:13
Speaker
I came out last Friday because my wife for Valentine's Day wanted to see Wicked and we'd never seen that play before.
01:00:18
Speaker
And she allowed me 20 minutes to play pinball and I was pretty excited.
01:00:23
Speaker
That sounds terrible.
01:00:24
Speaker
Should not allow me.
01:00:25
Speaker
It wasn't like, yeah, anyhow, I didn't have to ask permission or anything like that.
01:00:28
Speaker
But I just told her, I'm like, hey, we got 20 minutes to kill.
01:00:30
Speaker
So finally, we'll play pinball.
01:00:32
Speaker
I haven't been down to Kido's yet.
01:00:33
Speaker
I went and checked that place out.
01:00:34
Speaker
Got my hands on a Munsters.
01:00:36
Speaker
Yeah, that game is entirely too dark for its own good.
01:00:40
Speaker
I don't know.
01:00:40
Speaker
It's so dark.
01:00:41
Speaker
Yeah, like I was trying to see what was going on.
01:00:44
Speaker
And it's it's fun.
01:00:46
Speaker
Don't get me wrong.
01:00:47
Speaker
But like I wasn't super impressed, but I only played three games on it.
01:00:54
Speaker
but it was still enjoyable.
01:00:55
Speaker
Like, yeah, I would like to get more time on it.
01:00:58
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:59
Speaker
I, I'm not.
01:01:01
Speaker
Okay.
01:01:02
Speaker
Like, so on my last episode of my podcast, I just kind of said I'm a little bit meh on it.
01:01:08
Speaker
I'm now to the point where I think it's just kind of a dumb game.
01:01:13
Speaker
It's not unfixable, but rule wise is just kind of dumb.
01:01:17
Speaker
Um, you can get into the wizard mode of that thing so fast.
01:01:22
Speaker
Um,
01:01:23
Speaker
I don't know.
01:01:24
Speaker
It's just – it needs some work.
01:01:28
Speaker
There's some fun stuff to do there, but it just needs some work.
01:01:30
Speaker
Yeah, my first time playing that, I'm not an av – I would not put myself in the top 100 players of the world.
01:01:36
Speaker
I got – I was four modes in and not even paying attention.
01:01:41
Speaker
And –
01:01:43
Speaker
I'm going to legitimate legitimize our podcast right now by officially announcing Lee.
01:01:47
Speaker
I was playing with Lee because he's always at Kido's for some odd reason.
01:01:50
Speaker
He said, he is.
01:01:51
Speaker
We're not legit till we say his name.
01:01:53
Speaker
So I ran to him there and we were playing together and he's like, dude, what were you doing?
01:01:58
Speaker
I'm like, I
Playing the Munsters Pinball Machine
01:01:59
Speaker
don't know.
01:01:59
Speaker
And he's like, you're one mode away from starting up the wizard mode or the mini wizard mode.
01:02:03
Speaker
I was like, oh, I didn't even notice.
01:02:04
Speaker
Like I was just hitting the ball around because I wanted to see what, you know, you know how it is when you get on a pinball machine for the first time.
01:02:10
Speaker
You just want to see what happens.
01:02:11
Speaker
Shooting flashing lights.
01:02:13
Speaker
Exactly.
01:02:14
Speaker
Forget the guidelines.
01:02:15
Speaker
I don't know.
01:02:18
Speaker
It was enjoyable.
01:02:19
Speaker
Don't get me wrong.
01:02:19
Speaker
But I was actually enjoying Deadpool more than I was enjoying Monsters.
01:02:24
Speaker
But no, it was pretty fun.
01:02:25
Speaker
And then I actually hit Nickel Mania and they got Indiana Jones in there, but not the good one.
01:02:32
Speaker
Oh, the one that you can play for an hour and 45 minutes.
01:02:36
Speaker
That was my first impression of it.
01:02:37
Speaker
I was playing and I was playing and 15 minutes goes by.
01:02:41
Speaker
My wife's like, are you going to move on to a new machine?
01:02:43
Speaker
And it gets to that point where like, do I just drain and walk away?
01:02:47
Speaker
Do I keep going?
01:02:47
Speaker
Like it's like 65 million.
01:02:49
Speaker
And I finally decided just to drain out because, well, that's the thing.
01:02:52
Speaker
It just gives you extra balls too.
01:02:54
Speaker
I was like, where am I getting extra balls from?
01:02:56
Speaker
Extra balls and multi balls, man.
01:02:57
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
01:02:58
Speaker
It's nuts.
01:02:59
Speaker
It's never a good feeling when you can't wait for your ball to drain.
01:03:02
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:03
Speaker
So that's one of those games that if I see it, sometimes I'm like, yeah, I'll go put some initials up on it.
01:03:08
Speaker
Because I just know I can.
01:03:09
Speaker
I can play it until I'll go check the high scores.
01:03:12
Speaker
Okay, that's what I'm shooting for.
01:03:13
Speaker
Okay, got it.
01:03:15
Speaker
See, I think that's why they never have that version of Indiana Jones at Disneyland.
01:03:19
Speaker
And they have the Williams version.
01:03:20
Speaker
Because if they had that version, there would be one dude playing all day.
01:03:24
Speaker
Yep, yep.
01:03:25
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:25
Speaker
Well, that's why also threw me for a loop that day, my first game on Indiana Jones.
01:03:29
Speaker
And I got to put my name up on this the scoreboard.
01:03:31
Speaker
I was like, what?
01:03:33
Speaker
What the crap?
01:03:35
Speaker
And I was all excited.
01:03:36
Speaker
I took the picture and put on Pindigo, and I'm like four out of the other four people that have played.
01:03:42
Speaker
I'm like, how am I at the bottom?
01:03:43
Speaker
And I realized if I was draining out at $65 million, someone definitely went higher than that.
01:03:49
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:52
Speaker
It's crazy.
01:03:53
Speaker
The first time I played it, I just thought, there's not much I like about this.
01:03:59
Speaker
It just didn't feel like I want to come back and put another quarter in.
01:04:03
Speaker
No, it's not good.
01:04:04
Speaker
It's neat when it dumps a bunch of balls out of the arc, but that novelty wears off.
01:04:08
Speaker
You can buy Aerosmith and do that.
01:04:10
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:11
Speaker
Well, and you know what's funny, though?
01:04:13
Speaker
My wife is not an avid pinball player at all.
01:04:16
Speaker
She looked at me and she's like, wow, they finally got rid of Shrek.
01:04:18
Speaker
That one is a turd.
01:04:20
Speaker
I was like...
01:04:22
Speaker
If my wife doesn't... Her favorite pinball machine right now is Whirlwind because it blows you in the face when you start the topper.
01:04:29
Speaker
I like Whirlwind.
01:04:31
Speaker
It's a good game, don't get me wrong.
01:04:32
Speaker
But what I'm saying is if something about pinball is your favorite and it's actually not really technically pinball, it's a fan that's timed.
01:04:42
Speaker
Sure.
01:04:43
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
01:04:45
Speaker
You're claiming Shrek's a turd.
01:04:47
Speaker
There must be a problem with Shrek.
01:04:48
Speaker
But I don't know.
01:04:50
Speaker
That could just be me.
01:04:51
Speaker
It's not really a turd.
01:04:52
Speaker
It's just, it's the reason why I haven't sold it is because the two games, well, the three games I have that are so different than the others, I have Shrek, I have Black Rose, and I have Wizard of Oz.
01:05:06
Speaker
And if you look at those three compared to all the others, they are, well, I guess you could put Simpsons Pinball Party in there, but all the other ones I have are very similar in like a fan layout or something.
01:05:18
Speaker
And they're great games.
01:05:20
Speaker
But I have a hard time selling something that fills a unique niche in my grouping.
01:05:29
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:29
Speaker
Yeah, I understand that.
01:05:31
Speaker
Well, let's wrap this up.
01:05:32
Speaker
We've been going over for a little more of an hour.
01:05:35
Speaker
Jeff, where can we find you?
01:05:39
Speaker
Pinball related?
01:05:40
Speaker
Just...
01:05:41
Speaker
everywhere.
01:05:42
Speaker
I, I know you've got your other thing too, and it's fantastic.
01:05:45
Speaker
I've been listening to have we met yet or have we met?
01:05:48
Speaker
It's, that's great.
01:05:49
Speaker
If you haven't checked that out, I would recommend checking that out.
01:05:51
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:51
Speaker
That's coming back.
01:05:53
Speaker
So, um, yeah, for pinball, it's just the pinball podcast.com.
01:05:56
Speaker
Um,
01:05:58
Speaker
the most pretentious named pinball podcast out there.
01:06:04
Speaker
So the other pinball podcast, yeah, the thing you mentioned, have we met?
01:06:06
Speaker
It's my other podcast.
01:06:07
Speaker
Just have we met, have we met.net new episodes coming soon on that.
01:06:12
Speaker
And if you don't know me and you want to come on that show,
01:06:16
Speaker
uh, fell out a form on the site.
01:06:18
Speaker
That'd be fun.
01:06:18
Speaker
Uh, I don't have much else going on.
01:06:21
Speaker
I just trying to get a little bit more active again, back into pinball.
01:06:26
Speaker
I kind of took a little bit of a break, but, um, coming back.
01:06:32
Speaker
So yeah, that's most of my stuff.
01:06:35
Speaker
Uh, jar one 55, pretty much everywhere.
01:06:38
Speaker
If you want to like find me like on Instagram or social media or whatever.
01:06:41
Speaker
So,
01:06:43
Speaker
And you guys know where to find us.
01:06:44
Speaker
We are at the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at SoundCloud.
01:06:47
Speaker
You can find us on iTunes.
01:06:48
Speaker
You can find us on Android, wherever your podcast dreams are taken.
01:06:53
Speaker
I don't know.
01:06:54
Speaker
And if you want to reach out to us, Facebook's probably the best way.
01:06:57
Speaker
I've got Scott hooked up on there now, so you will not only get a hold of me, but you can also get a hold of Scott through the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at Facebook and Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com.
Closing and Contact Information
01:07:09
Speaker
So, uh, great conversations.
01:07:11
Speaker
I've been kind of shocked at the warm reception we've been receiving.
01:07:15
Speaker
I did not expect this kind of, uh, uh, people reaching out to us when we started this.
01:07:20
Speaker
I did this as a goof off.
01:07:21
Speaker
Hey, you guys get shout outs all over the place.
01:07:24
Speaker
Mad.
01:07:25
Speaker
I've been really shocked at all of it.
01:07:26
Speaker
I really have been.
01:07:27
Speaker
So no, it made sense to me.
01:07:29
Speaker
I, I, I expected it.
01:07:31
Speaker
So you guys are doing great.
01:07:32
Speaker
We appreciate it.
01:07:33
Speaker
So thanks Jeff.
01:07:36
Speaker
Thanks.
01:07:36
Speaker
Catch you later.