Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
Speaker: This is Josh Roop here with my guest host.
Speaker: Scott Larson.
Speaker: And with us today, Scott, who do we have?
Speaker: We have the famous Jeff Rivera from the Pinball Podcast.
Speaker: You know it, or also known as Generous Jeff.
Speaker: How are you doing today, Jeff?
Speaker: I'm doing great.
Speaker: I spent the majority of the day in the backseat of a car between someone larger than me and a baby seat.
Speaker: So I'm really happy to be sitting alone in a chair talking with you guys.
Speaker: I don't blame you.
Speaker: That does not sound like fun.
Speaker: What were you doing?
Speaker: I was going down to Beaver, the town here in Utah.
Speaker: Yes, they named it Beaver.
Speaker: So bad.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: To wish happy birthday to a friend's mom.
Speaker: She's turning 71 and we surprised her.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: You know, what's the funny part about Beaver, Utah?
Speaker: And I am not making this up.
Speaker: The second that you drive into that town from the south end of that town, there's a giant sign that says, eat beaver tacos.
Speaker: You can look it up on the internet.
Speaker: It's crazy.
Speaker: I saw it.
Speaker: I did see it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, I was at the Cub Scouts the other day and they were going on and on about how many silver beavers we had in the ward.
Speaker: And I just kept rocking back and forth thinking, can they just change it to Buffalo or Silverback or something?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Nope.
Speaker: Those beavers are hard workers.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: So it's nice to be out of the car.
Speaker: Well, you're a good man for going down there.
Speaker: It was fun.
Speaker: I had a good time.
Speaker: Of course, you always have to slow down below 10 miles below the speed limit because that's how they raise funds down there.
Speaker: Well, yeah, that and it was snowing the whole time down and back.
Speaker: So the snow has been ridiculous.
Speaker: Yeah, some of those passes were pretty gnarly.
Speaker: Yeah, it was.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Anyway, so what else?
Speaker: What has been up with you guys in pinball?
Speaker: You want to go first, Jeff?
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: SES wasn't too long ago.
Speaker: Obviously, being the state rep for the IFPA, I hosted that.
Speaker: That went really well.
Speaker: That was a really fun tournament.
Speaker: Go along with the SES, we had some media coverage with that.
Speaker: We got featured in the City Weekly newspaper.
Speaker: That was pretty cool.
Speaker: I don't know if you guys saw that.
Speaker: Did some on-air interviews as well for the local news.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: A little bit of pinball media tour, I guess.
Speaker: We've got Pinball League starting up at the end of the month.
Speaker: It hasn't started yet, but that's kind of on the horizon.
Speaker: Beyond that, I've been trying to play as much as I can just on location locally.
Speaker: We've got some newer games out there, like the Munsters.
Speaker: I just kind of got my own podcast going, but it's been good.
Speaker: It's been a good month of pinball lately.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And coming off being sick with the flu and things like that, it's been nice to be back up on my feet and playing some pinball.
Speaker: So, Jeff, where is your favorite place to go?
Speaker: We're all based out of Utah, and so we're kind of around the Salt Lake City area.
Speaker: Where is your top three places to go for pinball?
Speaker: Okay, well...
Speaker: It's been shifting around a little bit because I really like Keto's.
Speaker: That's Keto's Brewery.
Speaker: That's got a pretty decent mix of games there.
Speaker: I like Campfire Lounge a lot.
Speaker: Not a lot of games, but it's just a cool vibe.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I also like Nickel Mania down on State Street.
Speaker: The condition of games can vary wildly.
Speaker: Sometimes they'll go and every single thing seems to play perfect.
Speaker: And then other times it can just be kind of rough.
Speaker: But it's kind of hard to complain when games are only 15 cents a play, sometimes 10 cents a play.
Speaker: I like those.
Speaker: And then Quarters is a lot of fun as well.
Speaker: They have a lot of newer games.
Speaker: They've got some older games.
Speaker: And it's fun to take people there who aren't big-time pinball fans.
Speaker: They'll play a game or two.
Speaker: But if they're not into the pinball, they'll find plenty to do while you hammer away at the games.
Speaker: They'll hang out.
Speaker: So some good places.
Speaker: What's your favorite game right now?
Speaker: Oh...
Speaker: That's tough.
Speaker: I... Hmm.
Speaker: Probably still... Probably still Total Nuclear Annihilation.
Speaker: It's been... It's not my all-time favorite, but it's my current favorite.
Speaker: Like, if I had to just go play one game of pinball, I'd probably go do that.
Speaker: I know it's going to be real short, but...
Speaker: I was gonna go flip one on.
Speaker: Probably that or actually kind of this is weird.
Speaker: Spider-Man like Stern Spider-Man.
Speaker: I took the center post out of mine and made it steep wax it up made it kind of brutal and that's been something I've been addicted to lately.
Speaker: So awesome.
Speaker: I've been listening to a lot of Muse lately and I listen to Muse and I think, man, they should do a soundtrack for a pinball machine because that would be very similar to Total Nuclear Annihilation or a background.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yep, yep, for sure.
Speaker: That would be way cool.
Speaker: Well, you know that Muse is the reason that Twilight exists, right?
Speaker: I know it's a random side tangent, but she was addicted to, oh, not Knights of Sedona, the one right before it.
Speaker: But yeah, she listened to that album and she envisioned the whole Twilight saga, I guess, from that.
Speaker: Well, okay, so that took Muse down a few notches for me.
Speaker: Well, it's not their fault that they inspired someone else, but yeah.
Speaker: It's cool that they were able to inspire someone else to a point of a mega blockbuster hit movie and book franchise.
Speaker: So, okay.
Speaker: Now I just can't listen to views without thinking of them with diamond shimmery skin.
Speaker: Well, that, that was Josh's fault.
Speaker: I didn't do that too.
Speaker: I just, sorry, I broke the glass.
Speaker: So what brought you, how long you been in the hobby now, Jeff?
Speaker: Um, I've been playing for a long time.
Speaker: I, my dad used to drag me to the arcade and like most kids in the nineties, I would sneak off to play street fighter and those types of like the JAMA games, you know, go sink a bunch of quarters into like X-Men and the Simpsons and stuff like that.
Speaker: And I'd circle back and he'd still be playing pinball in the back of the arcade.
Speaker: But it was fascinating to me at that point.
Speaker: And I'd play a little bit of it too.
Speaker: But as far as collecting goes, that's been about 11 years now.
Speaker: Maybe a little bit longer, 12, probably 12.
Speaker: So yeah, actively collecting is amazing.
Speaker: It's been a while, I guess.
Speaker: I've seen a lot change.
Speaker: Well, and that's another question that comes to my mind.
Speaker: What are some of the differences you see from when you first got in 12 years ago to now?
Speaker: So the most obvious thing is obviously price is pricing.
Speaker: Like just you could buy four games for the cost of one now, but brand new off the line or what?
Speaker: I mean, in one single day, I bought World Cup soccer, Attack from Mars, and Spider-Man.
Speaker: There's no way I could buy those three games in a single day now.
Speaker: I didn't have as good of a job then as I did now.
Speaker: It's just the hobby was way different.
Speaker: I couldn't afford my own collection now.
Speaker: There's no way if I didn't build it back then.
Speaker: It's just different.
Speaker: But yeah, even games off the line back then were way, way cheaper than they are now.
Speaker: So I remember when games were under 4,000 and hitting that 4,000 mark was kind of crazy.
Speaker: And now the base price is six.
Speaker: Or five for a Stern Pro.
Speaker: I think their most recent Stern Pro is like 55.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: The demand is just there now.
Speaker: People are going to pay it.
Speaker: And $5,000 feels like a good deal for a lot of people, especially when my dialed in was $9,000.
Speaker: The price has just changed.
Speaker: But –
Speaker: There's just different attitude in the hobby now.
Speaker: And that's actually... Pricing is the most obvious change, but I think the biggest change is just the attitude in the hobby.
Speaker: People have changed their outlook.
Speaker: It felt like pinball was dying for a long time.
Speaker: And it felt like we were just holding on and keeping it alive and making it work.
Speaker: And it was almost like this club aspect.
Speaker: But now it's a community.
Speaker: And now it is...
Speaker: It feels like a real industry again, and it feels like it's legitimately growing.
Speaker: And, you know, pinball is just it's on the rise.
Speaker: It's not people want to talk about bubbles and all that, but it's it is growing.
Speaker: I mean, there's no denying that there's more people in it now than there has been for quite some time.
Speaker: So why?
Speaker: Why do you think that is?
Speaker: Like what draws people – see, I'm actually a relative newcomer to it, but I just – I'm kind of random that I – how I got into pinball.
Speaker: But what is the mass appeal for people when there's so many options out there for entertainment?
Speaker: I think that's actually – so the word there you use, entertainment, I think that's actually what it is, is people are starting to find their entertainment outside the house again.
Speaker: I think –
Speaker: We went through our fascination of the in-home entertainment.
Speaker: I mean, we still have it.
Speaker: We all have Netflix and we still have the game consoles and stuff.
Speaker: But I think they've become so common now that it's a little bit more exciting to kind of get out and get together again.
Speaker: It's not so exciting to play online.
Speaker: Like for a while, that was super cool.
Speaker: Like...
Speaker: If you remember the early days of Xbox Live or playing games online with a headset and friends, especially some of the early Call of Duty games or things like that, it was the coolest thing in the world to be able to do that.
Speaker: It's now just common.
Speaker: And now it feels cool again to meet up and play some games together.
Speaker: And pinball lends itself so well to that.
Speaker: The rise of all the leagues get people out even more.
Speaker: You can just look at the IFPA numbers and the amount of people that are in it.
Speaker: just to see it's bringing people out.
Speaker: So I think the social aspect and just the fact that people are once again looking for entertainment outside the home is really fueling that rise of barcades and just pinball in general.
Speaker: So it's been nice to see.
Speaker: Do you think it's also fueled by being a digital age now that we want something more tangible to play with?
Speaker: Yeah, I think so.
Speaker: I think when we play, we want to play differently than we live.
Speaker: And so that's probably a pretty good observation.
Speaker: You know, we want our games not to feel like the rest of our day.
Speaker: So a physical game, I mean, board games have even made a comeback too.
Speaker: They're getting pretty complex and
Speaker: uh, pretty crazy.
Speaker: So that, that probably is a part of it as well.
Speaker: I think what you said was really insightful in saying that we want to play differently than we work.
Speaker: I'm actually old enough that I remember getting our first computer in the eighties and it costs like $5,000 back then, which is still kind of a crazy amount when you think about it, but getting on the computer was a novelty and
Speaker: It was completely different.
Speaker: But you're right.
Speaker: So many of us are so tapped into computers and tapped into technology that it's really healthier for us to step back from that.
Speaker: I never considered that as a possible rise to this.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Well, do you remember being blown away by some of the early adventure games like King's Quest or Space Quest or something?
Speaker: And they were so exciting.
Speaker: And if you show that to a kid now...
Speaker: They don't have that excitement.
Speaker: They might enjoy it and they might think it's fun to figure out the puzzles and what to type in and click on or whatever.
Speaker: But they just don't get wrapped up into it because it's so common and
Speaker: They want something different now.
Speaker: It's interesting.
Speaker: Well, when I was a kid, so I grew up in the 80s.
Speaker: So I was born in 74, grew up in the 80s.
Speaker: That was when that was the heyday of arcades with actual games that came out.
Speaker: And when you saw Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, you'd never seen that before.
Speaker: I interacted with something on the screen was something you never saw.
Speaker: And so it was such a novelty.
Speaker: And when these games came out, you didn't have the access of, I'm stuck on this level.
Speaker: I need to go into Google it because Google didn't exist.
Speaker: And so you basically had to ask your friends, hey, how did you get past this?
Speaker: And that was kind of a community there to say, hey, what did you do?
Speaker: How do you win now?
Speaker: I would say the majority of people just buy a game and get a walkthrough.
Speaker: They just Google walkthrough.
Speaker: And so there's following someone else's footsteps, but you can't really do that with pinball.
Speaker: No, you have to figure it out.
Speaker: Well, and the other thing you, I want to rewind back to what you were saying earlier is at one point it felt like the hobby was dead and you guys were just trying to keep it alive.
Speaker: I think we can see that to this day.
Speaker: And the reason I say this is when I got in the hobby about five years ago, the first pinball machine that came into my life, I didn't necessarily own it, was Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
Speaker: And I love the theme.
Speaker: That's like one of my dream themes.
Speaker: And I started playing it and I kind of got let down because it's fun to shoot.
Speaker: But once you've collected the four turtles and start the multiball, there's not really much more to it.
Speaker: All right, so I started to do a lot more research before I bought my first pinball machine and I ran into videos from from you Jeff about how to like wax your taxi.
Speaker: Yeah, and one of the other guys I watched a lot of was Chris Bucci.
Speaker: I don't know if you know this guy.
Speaker: Yeah, it's like Spider.
Speaker: His name is like Spider or something, but I know he does that Bucci's arcade videos.
Speaker: And it's got like the cheesy, like 90s, like intro music.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: But yeah, he does all his games.
Speaker: He did a full in-depth on like Big Bang Bar and all that jazz.
Speaker: They're good videos.
Speaker: And those videos are all from like 10, 11 years ago.
Speaker: And so I think where you guys are trying to keep it alive, it helped jumpstart this new generation as well, because then we had content to go back to.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker: There's an older podcast that it wasn't a pinball podcast.
Speaker: It was actually a video game podcast, but it's called A Life Well Wasted.
Speaker: And if you listen to the Steve Ritchie interview on that, it's after he's left Stern.
Speaker: And most of it is talks about how he's going deaf and how...
Speaker: he sounds super depressed and pinball's dying and it's going to be dead.
Speaker: It's amazing to hear how different his tone is then to what it is now.
Speaker: Steve Ritchie loves pinball again and he loves doing what he's doing.
Speaker: It's a life, a life well wasted.
Speaker: Just find the episode of Steve Ritchie.
Speaker: It's,
Speaker: amazing to hear the shift in tone.
Speaker: I still remember listening to that episode, putting Christmas lights on my house, thinking, yeah, Pinball's probably going to fade out as far as new games go.
Speaker: It's just going to happen, but it's okay.
Speaker: We'll keep it alive.
Speaker: And it's just, I don't worry about that anymore.
Speaker: Which is really funny because you look at it now and how many titles do we have coming out a year from
Speaker: multiple companies that didn't exist more than five years ago.
Speaker: It's just insane to see where the hobby has come from since then.
Speaker: Yeah, it's, it's, it's incredible.
Speaker: If you look at exactly what you're talking about, when I got into pinball, I actually watched two documentaries.
Speaker: And so I got into pinball three, four years ago.
Speaker: And one documentary I watched was, uh, it's called the way of the puck, which is actually, it's these guys trying to keep air hockey alive, like competitive air hockey.
Speaker: And on the whole of it, you look at their passion and it's pretty amazing, but it's pretty sad that their world doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker: And then of course I found special one lit and, and you look at that and it looks like the apocalypse.
Speaker: I mean, it starts with a whole bunch of dead pinball machines in a field somewhere and
Speaker: And then it ends with a whole bunch of dead pinball machines in the field.
Speaker: And I, I started thinking, wow, okay, so I'm getting into a hobby that is dead.
Speaker: Um, maybe I'll just start listening to some podcasts and so I can figure out what was good about it.
Speaker: And then I found your pit, your podcast.
Speaker: And so.
Speaker: It was just interesting to see that that was a snapshot of an era when it was probably the nadir of pinball and the popularity.
Speaker: And since then, we are in the new golden age of pinball.
Speaker: And I would argue what we've seen in the last eight years of pinball, it rivals what they had in the 90s.
Speaker: And we're on the ups, ups slide as opposed to the downslide.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, there's stuff that is happening now that just...
Speaker: it points to so much healthier of an ecosystem for the companies and for the players.
Speaker: It's just much, much better now.
Speaker: Well, and I think the interesting part about pinball as well is the fact that it's been around almost 100 years now in the mechanical form that we see now.
Speaker: I think it just goes to prove, yes, as technology advances, pinball is still going to come back around.
Speaker: And I don't know if it's because you have these generations that grow up with it, and then it kind of dies off.
Speaker: And then those generations go, well, where did it go?
Speaker: And so they start to bring it back, and it continues.
Speaker: is cultivated within their kids.
Speaker: And that comes back.
Speaker: And I mean, we see the, the, the dying off and the coming back.
Speaker: I mean, they said that pinball was going to die back in the early eighties when they, our first arcade machines were coming out and they were fighting just to stay relevant.
Speaker: It basically did die.
Speaker: Like with the rise of arcades.
Speaker: Uh, I remember going to the arcade at the local mall and they had a flash, um, in the corner.
Speaker: I never put one quarter in it.
Speaker: because I thought, oh, I'm going to lose my quarter in about three seconds.
Speaker: However, I'd put it in Donkey Kong and die in three seconds.
Speaker: We wouldn't really consider that a loss.
Speaker: But it really was, it was in hibernation from 83 to about, you know, 89.
Speaker: Well, then you had a giant leap forward then.
Speaker: I mean, look at Adam's family in 92 selling the most units any pinball machine had sold at that point in time.
Speaker: Before that, it was Spirit of 76 with like 12,000 pinball machines.
Speaker: And that was from 1976.
Speaker: And then we died off again towards the end of the 90s through the 2000s.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Now you get to 2010 and it starts building steam again.
Speaker: And I think we'll see these rollercoaster waves with the hobby, regardless of what happens.
Speaker: I know that you said that we felt like it was dying off, but I don't think we'll ever get to that point.
Speaker: And I could be wrong, but...
Speaker: Yeah, I'm not I don't know.
Speaker: I everything's cyclical like there's there's pinball is a hobby and hobbies enjoy their times of fascinations and, you know, getting ignored to some degree, but yeah.
Speaker: I think the hardcore base has expanded enough that it's just going to be in a better spot for longer periods of time when it finds those good spots.
Speaker: But yeah, it's always going to have a little bit of an ebb and flow effect to it.
Speaker: I just don't worry about it dying like I used to, at least.
Speaker: Well, the interesting part with this spike versus any other spike of pinball history, and I know that you've discussed this before with Jessica on your podcast, but it's now in a home market.
Speaker: I know Steve Kirk was saying back in the day, like, one day we'll see pinball machines as a home piece instead of just an arcade piece.
Speaker: I think that's another thing that really helps, too.
Speaker: Once it's gotten into the home, it will grow better roots, so to speak.
Speaker: Right, right.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker: Yeah, that's a good callback to that.
Speaker: He was very smart to see that way back then.
Speaker: So Jeff, what don't you like about the current environment of pinball that has changed since you got into it?
Speaker: Not necessarily don't like, but what is your least favorite aspect of it?
Speaker: That's hard to say because I'm pretty happy with most stuff.
Speaker: I've really liked...
Speaker: You know what?
Speaker: Actually, the Whopper fascination, the points fascination kind of bums me out a little bit because I see people lose sight of what they're actually playing for, and that's fun.
Speaker: When they're playing to just juice their world ranking, it's weird to me because your ranking might be higher, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're any better.
Speaker: And
Speaker: there's sometimes just shenanigans that go on with that people treating each other poorly in tournaments or tournament situations.
Speaker: I love competitive pinball, but yeah, there's just some things around it that people get a little odd about that I'm not super happy about.
Speaker: I do worry about sometimes the,
Speaker: build quality of product, I've had some issues with some machines.
Speaker: I understand that that's part of inflation is you can either cut quality or you can raise cost.
Speaker: But I feel like we get it on both ends a little bit.
Speaker: So I do worry about that some.
Speaker: That doesn't affect my enjoyment of playing pinball so much.
Speaker: So I don't want to talk too much about that.
Speaker: The other thing, and this isn't a super widespread problem, but
Speaker: I think a lot of people want to use pinball as a ability to, I don't know how to put this in words, but like be someone different than they really are.
Speaker: And that's not unique to pinball.
Speaker: It's just, I don't know.
Speaker: I feel like people are like using pinball to try and
Speaker: popularize themselves in some weird way.
Speaker: Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker: I don't know how to explain that.
Speaker: That's weird.
Speaker: They're trying to look cool in forums.
Speaker: They're trying to be cool at events and stuff.
Speaker: I can see that.
Speaker: I can kind of see what you're talking about there.
Speaker: Yeah, it just kind of bums me out.
Speaker: Like, let's just get together.
Speaker: Let's just play.
Speaker: And I think seriously, the number one rule of pinball is just like, be cool.
Speaker: Like, just be cool.
Speaker: Like, treat each other right.
Speaker: And most stuff will take care of itself from there.
Speaker: And there's just a few people that haven't figured out how to do that.
Speaker: Well, it's funny that you mentioned that with like the personalities and stuff like that.
Speaker: I think it made me chuckle like, was it a month or two ago when Jack Danger did the stuff with Jeffree Star?
Speaker: And to us, Christopher Franchi is like a really big icon right now in the pinball hobby because of the artwork he's been doing and how fantastic it looks.
Speaker: And Chris had posted that he was in the bar with them, but he could not even get close.
Speaker: And Jack had seen that and said, come on over, Chris Franchi.
Speaker: And then like all the Jeffree Star fans.
Speaker: people that were in chat watching the stream as they played pinball was like, who the craps Christopher Franchi?
Speaker: Like, why should we care about this?
Speaker: And so I think it brings to a point that yes, like Christopher is an awesome dude and we all respect him and whatnot and what the art that he does.
Speaker: But once you boil it down to, to, to the base, no one knows who he is outside of pinball.
Speaker: And that's just the cold hard facts.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I mean, you could even, I doubt if you walked up to anyone on the street and said, Hey, do you know who Roger Sharp is?
Speaker: Like Roger Sharp's probably the most iconic name in pinball.
Speaker: I don't know if you'd get much of a response.
Speaker: So I agree with you that we need to kind of like settle down.
Speaker: Some of us need to be like,
Speaker: chill out because we just need to get along because it's kind of crazy that we're using our status to to make different big fish in a small pod yeah sure but that that's not unique to pinball either so you get people who no no no it's not a pinball problem it's it's just a you know they find a you know video games will do the same thing they'll get an avatar and they'll be a bully or an aggressive person online and
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: All I'm saying is I'm just seeing that rise a little bit more.
Speaker: And I think over time that will moderate.
Speaker: I think people will shout that down.
Speaker: It just happens in a growing hobby.
Speaker: There's just more space to act out a little bit.
Speaker: Well, that's what the nice part about our hobby.
Speaker: It's so small that you can't, you can shout it down, so to speak.
Speaker: You know, it kind of fixes itself over time if it's becoming out of control.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: Well, they move on.
Speaker: Eventually people tire of it and of their drama and they move on.
Speaker: correct.
Speaker: While we're speaking about longevity of pinball, and that's kind of our theme for this episode, I want to know, Jeff, what certain titles make you feel like they never grow old that give you that longevity for your collection?
Speaker: Um, what it is about a more specific titles.
Speaker: I, I missed what you were asking.
Speaker: What about the games?
Speaker: You can use specific titles, examples, but I feel me layouts and themes and stuff.
Speaker: What, what lends to that?
Speaker: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: Um, so yeah, like it's, it's, it's hard cause the, uh,
Speaker: There's so many layouts that are similar, especially when you're dealing with fan layouts.
Speaker: It's funny how one game will feel like a dog and one game will feel...
Speaker: Amazing like Lord of the Rings and Sopranos are very very similar layouts if you overlay them It's scary how similar they are but Sopranos is fun to play on a location once in a while but Lord of the Rings is a game people hunt down and have a hard time letting go of and so the layouts
Speaker: one thing um but there's there is a feeling of i think satisfaction that comes from not just the rules because there's games that have great rules that maybe have a crummy layout and you don't want to play them like for me i i don't like batman 66 at all i think the layout sucks but it has fantastic rule set
Speaker: So it's the marriage of those two that come together just right.
Speaker: And when that happens, I just don't get bored.
Speaker: I don't get bored of the game chasing high scores when that combo is right.
Speaker: Like I mentioned that I've been addicted to Spider-Man lately.
Speaker: That's a game with a very basic layout.
Speaker: It's got a lot to shoot for, but it's basically Steve Ritchie's take on Attack from Mars.
Speaker: with a cross shot.
Speaker: And so it's not anything fancy, but the rules are deceptively deep on that, not overly complex, but they're deceptively deep.
Speaker: And I just keep coming back.
Speaker: You can play it, um, on a very simple base level or it's like, Oh, I'm just going to, you know, hammer away at the villains, or you can go through the modes and having those options.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: just lets, lets me approach it how I want to that day.
Speaker: Um, and then when the shots are enjoyable, it just, I just keep coming back to it.
Speaker: Had that game for, you know, since it was new, new and I, I love it.
Speaker: And I've had other games that have come and gone that probably had objectively better layouts or, um,
Speaker: You know, probably considered better rule sets, but they just weren't married together as well.
Speaker: Rules and layouts as that game.
Speaker: They're just in perfect harmony with each other.
Speaker: Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker: I actually have two games next to each other.
Speaker: One of them is Tron and the other one is X-Men LE.
Speaker: And they are, it's exactly the same.
Speaker: Actually, X-Men, you would argue, has more to it.
Speaker: But that didn't capture the imagination of everybody like Tron does.
Speaker: And really, if you look at X-Men, aside from the sound, which is arguably one of the worst productions Stern has done, aside from Wolverine trying to
Speaker: get it on with the game.
Speaker: But it's just doesn't, it doesn't have that same vibe.
Speaker: And I think it's that perfect nexus of theme music and layout and rules where, and also, you know, everything together kind of coming together.
Speaker: Imagine having total nuclear knowledge issue without the soundtrack.
Speaker: Yeah, it would hurt it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, I think that also is what lends to longevity and pinball, at least in my collection.
Speaker: Some of the games that I have are games that I feel like I can somewhat attain the final mode, not consistently, but it's something that still challenges me.
Speaker: And I can go out there and do it.
Speaker: Like my favorite is Attack for Mars.
Speaker: I love the humor.
Speaker: I love the artwork except for the lady's hand down between the flippers, but I'm not going to go off on that right now.
Speaker: But everything about that machine is just perfect in my eyes.
Speaker: It gives me a challenge.
Speaker: And even though it's kind of doing the same thing over and over, it still feels different every time.
Speaker: You have a different way to approach it.
Speaker: And there's just something about the missions in the bottom middle too, the six missions that you've got to complete on top of it to rule the universe.
Speaker: And I don't know, I think theme lends to it, but it doesn't necessarily hinder it.
Speaker: Because a game like The Shadow that I really enjoy, I would love to have them in my collection.
Speaker: But the theme doesn't really speak to me because I've never seen The Shadow and I've heard Satold Turd.
Speaker: I can't really attest to that.
Speaker: Don't watch it.
Speaker: It's actually better playing it without it.
Speaker: Kind of like my Johnny Mnemonic, it was a lot better to play it than to watch it.
Speaker: Just pretend it's The Matrix.
Speaker: OK.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So Attack from Mars.
Speaker: So if you're going to ask me what my favorite Pidmall machine of all time is, I'll probably say Twilight Zone.
Speaker: But if you're going to ask me what I think the best Pidmall machine of all time is, I'll probably say Attack from Mars.
Speaker: Why is that?
Speaker: Why is the two different from that?
Speaker: Um, twilight zone.
Speaker: I just like playing the most.
Speaker: I it's one of the first games I really lusted after and went and got, by the way, it was $1,700 shipped in from California.
Speaker: It was just a different time, man.
Speaker: Um, anyway, uh, and, uh,
Speaker: It just has the sound, the music.
Speaker: It's big.
Speaker: It's got shots all over the place.
Speaker: Now, playing in a tournament setting, it's pretty bland.
Speaker: You're just going to go after your multi-baller or whatever, and you're not really going to play the modes out.
Speaker: But if you're playing the game the way that Lawler designed it, it just has so much going on.
Speaker: It's just crazy.
Speaker: I just think it's...
Speaker: I just love it.
Speaker: I've never got sick of shooting that thing.
Speaker: He used every inch perfectly.
Speaker: But I find Attack from Mars is like the most pure pinball experience in the modern era.
Speaker: All the shots are perfect.
Speaker: perfectly dialed in.
Speaker: Um, like nothing feels off or wrong on that.
Speaker: It, every shot flows just magically.
Speaker: Um, the rules are great.
Speaker: There's fun little hidden things to find in there.
Speaker: And it's, it's plenty of challenge to get to the end of it, but it's straightforward as well.
Speaker: So, um,
Speaker: It's just, it's hard to criticize it.
Speaker: And there's not things in the game that punish you for playing well.
Speaker: A lot of pinball machines do that to eat your quarters.
Speaker: Attack for Mars is just, if you miss your shots, you'll get punished, but it won't punish you for playing well.
Speaker: And so it's just, I think it's perfect.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: I totally agree.
Speaker: So that kind of moves into the next topic is you, I know when you first got into the topic, you were turning over games fairly regularly.
Speaker: But how do you mix having the all-time great games that you want to hold on to and also keeping your collection fresh and interesting?
Speaker: Yeah, so for me, I...
Speaker: I mean, I have the greats that are great to me.
Speaker: Like I have Attack from Mars and Twilight Zone.
Speaker: And, you know, those are a couple that people would always point to if you're building like a cookie cutter collection of the great pinball machines.
Speaker: But, you know, I've had...
Speaker: all of the A-list games over time, like the Indiana Jones and Adams family.
Speaker: And you can, you can go down the list, but I, I was having probably one or two games coming a week and going a week for, for quite some time I've had,
Speaker: well over 100 games come and go.
Speaker: And really what it was is I wasn't keeping anything for what it was, what the game was itself.
Speaker: I just kept what I liked.
Speaker: And what I noticed just got the most play.
Speaker: So something like Indiana Jones, I worked hard to get one.
Speaker: And it surprised me a little bit when I sold it.
Speaker: it just wasn't getting played.
Speaker: And so I let it go.
Speaker: And then, you know, when I got like ACDC, for example, I,
Speaker: I got it brand new in box.
Speaker: I thought, you know, I played it at a show and I fell in love with it at the show.
Speaker: So I bought it.
Speaker: I thought maybe it would stick around a year and I still have it and I don't think it's going anywhere.
Speaker: So I don't always know what's going to be that long term stay.
Speaker: But as soon as I have no desire to turn it on as I walk past it, it starts creeping towards the trade block or seller's block or whatever.
Speaker: And I have some weird ones that have been around for a long time.
Speaker: I've had Bride of Pinbot for like eight or nine years now.
Speaker: That's probably a long stay for that game for most people, but I still like it.
Speaker: It's a fun game.
Speaker: I like the gimmick game, the novelty games where you don't have to overthink it.
Speaker: You're just having fun.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I've made it like really hard, but yeah.
Speaker: Well, I know what you mean too, because they're like one of the big games I wanted when I first started in the hobby was fishtails.
Speaker: I don't know what it was about that game, but it really spoke to me.
Speaker: I got it.
Speaker: I played it for about a month and then it was just like, I don't hate the game, but it definitely is for a small collection.
Speaker: It's not one you should have in a small collection in my personal opinion, because it's really just left ramp, right ramp, right up the middle.
Speaker: And so a game that I was like, thought would be something in my collection for quite some time because of the theme and because of the play of it ended up only being around for like three months, if that.
Speaker: And my son killed me for it.
Speaker: He's like, I can't believe you're getting rid of that.
Speaker: I mean, he loves fishing.
Speaker: That was like his thing.
Speaker: But it just if I don't have enough space just to hold on to pinball machines at this point.
Speaker: And so it just wasn't going to stay.
Speaker: So I get I get where you're coming from on that.
Speaker: yeah when i got fishtails i thought that was going to be staying around and it didn't ever make it out of the garage after the shop job down to the collection it moved on so same deal here and i had that i know the there's a lot of rant and rave right now about congo i own that one um and i can't it was the same thing for me once i got all shopped out and started playing it it was enjoyable but i just felt like there was better games out there to own in my collection and like i said
Speaker: It's one of those conundrums of if you have the space for 15 machines, then it's not that big of a deal to have a Congo.
Speaker: But if you only have space for four or five machines, that's one extra space that's being taken up, especially if you're walking by and going, I'd rather play my other three games than this lap, you know, than Congo at this point.
Speaker: I think also you can look at your games, and this is kind of where I'm living right now, is thinking, okay, if I didn't have that game, even if I had to bring some money to the table, could I leverage that value into something else?
Speaker: And when you look at it and say, well, like,
Speaker: The game that I bought, kind of sight unseen and really have never really bonded with is Shrek.
Speaker: It's a fun game.
Speaker: It's interesting.
Speaker: It's different than the other ones.
Speaker: But in the back of my mind, I think I could just dump a few more thousand dollars into that and get something I really want.
Speaker: And so if something is just being a placeholder, then I say, you're right, just move it on.
Speaker: It used to be harder to move.
Speaker: I mean, I'm sorry.
Speaker: I think it's a little bit harder to move games these days, though, because there's more anxiety that you won't be able to get it back.
Speaker: One, because pricing has gone crazy.
Speaker: I could think of a ton of games that I sold that to buy it back now would just be crazy.
Speaker: I'd pay double to get it back what I sold it for.
Speaker: or just that the demand is so much higher than the supply, it's a long time before it comes around again.
Speaker: Back when you could hop onto classifieds and just take your pick, it was super easy to flip a game that you just weren't having that much fun anymore.
Speaker: Or if you just wanted to shake something up, you could sell your favorite game and you could buy it back at six months.
Speaker: It wasn't a big deal.
Speaker: It's just not that luxury is gone now.
Speaker: Well, that's what's crazy to me being in this hobby.
Speaker: When I started five years ago, I remember kind of trying to go through what I wanted.
Speaker: And the first one I set my sights on was World Cup soccer.
Speaker: And when I bought that, it was pretty hammered, but I got for 600 bucks.
Speaker: I was pretty proud of myself.
Speaker: And it worked.
Speaker: I could turn it on, but I had to go through it.
Speaker: And at that point in time, like you said, you could kind of have your pick.
Speaker: I saw a Jurassic Park for 1500 on KSL.
Speaker: And I thought that's ridiculously priced.
Speaker: Like my wife, that was one, that's still one of her dream themes and we still have never owned it, but she wanted that.
Speaker: And I was like, I fought with myself for a month and it sat there for a while.
Speaker: And then I finally just decided against it.
Speaker: And now I wish I would have bought it because what are they're like, 2,500 and you still have to have them shipped in, at least in Utah.
Speaker: You don't see them very often here.
Speaker: It's weird, but.
Speaker: Yeah, that's one of my games I actually regret selling is my Jurassic Park.
Speaker: I sold it for double what I paid for it, but now to buy it, it's still quite a bit more than I even sold it for then.
Speaker: I think that wraps it up for our interview questions that we had.
Speaker: Did you have any others for Jeff Scott?
Speaker: No, I think that's good.
Speaker: Let's move on to the news from American Pinball, or at least the themes that they're working on.
Speaker: Yeah, so it was officially confirmed...
Speaker: the American pinball had secured the licenses for Valkyrie, Robin Hood, Poker Run, and Sherlock Holmes.
Speaker: And my personal opinion when I saw this was they're pulling a Disney.
Speaker: And when I say that is they're trying to buy licenses that have some familiarity to them that don't necessarily come with the licensing costs.
Speaker: That's what I thought.
Speaker: It's interesting.
Speaker: It's a free brand is what it is.
Speaker: The funny thing is I'm looking at all these four and I think Valkyrie could be interesting depending on who actually does it.
Speaker: If you think about either the concept art for Alice in Wonderland or a magic girl or something like that.
Speaker: If they did something like Valkyrie, that could be something interesting in the right hands.
Speaker: Robin Hood,
Speaker: They try to reboot this thing every five years, and I'm sorry, unless you're going to have Kevin Kotzner on there with his bald mullet, then I think there's no chance that thing's going to fly.
Speaker: Poker run, no one really cares about a poker pinball machine.
Speaker: It just doesn't work anymore.
Speaker: And Sherlock Holmes, really, it seems kind of like a dead option unless you're going to get Benedict Cumberbatch on there.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Even at that, some of those like –
Speaker: themes like Robin Hood or Sherlock Holmes have been done so many ways that it's really hard to find an identity with them.
Speaker: I mean, you can go to the $2 DVD bargain bins and you can see like animated Sherlock Holmes where it's like, there's some mice that is Sherlock Holmes animated series.
Speaker: And it's like some weird, you know,
Speaker: crazy take on Sherlock Holmes.
Speaker: And then next to it, you have some weird Chinese made animated Robin Hood that's just cheap, you know, 3D animation.
Speaker: And it just happens because, again, they're free licenses, as you were saying.
Speaker: But that...
Speaker: licenses is so hard to differentiate unless like scott was saying you can get benedict cumberbatch to do it but even then that feels like it's kind of a little bit beyond its peak um it's fast it's like releasing a game right exactly uh those aren't just it feels like a generic license even though it's
Speaker: I mean, there is a little bit of weight to Robin Hood.
Speaker: It's just I don't know who cares anymore.
Speaker: It's just been it's just been done so much and in so many ways.
Speaker: Well, I'm going to play devil's advocate just for a minute or two.
Speaker: Two of the best pinball machines, considerably the best pinball machines in all of pinball history are Attack from Mars and Medieval Madness.
Speaker: If you could take, I mean, I've heard people say that American is the new Bally Williams.
Speaker: I can't say yes or no to that, but I've heard some of that thrown around.
Speaker: Do you think that they could take Robin hood?
Speaker: Like they've taken attack from ours with all the cheesy B B, uh, alien movies or Sherlock Holmes with everything.
Speaker: Cause Sherlock Holmes is, uh,
Speaker: You don't have to know all the background history of Benedict Cumberbatch or Robert Downey Jr. and all that jazz.
Speaker: You could easily do, because everyone knows that's elementary Watson.
Speaker: You could easily do the humor meshed with the pinball machine, just like an attack from Mars.
Speaker: I think it could play out really well in that aspect, as long as they don't take it too seriously, but they don't go too silly either.
Speaker: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker: Well, I'm going to push back a little bit on Attack from Mars.
Speaker: That was really a lazy ripoff of a movie that was coming out at the time, which was Mars Attacks.
Speaker: And I think people just associated that and thought, oh, this is a big budget movie.
Speaker: Oh, this is a pinball machine.
Speaker: It's got to be related somehow.
Speaker: And if you look at medieval madness, well, medieval madness is really Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
Speaker: And so they really are, they're borderline licenses without being that.
Speaker: I don't really see that.
Speaker: The same thing with American pinball.
Speaker: And if you look at the reason why Stern has, Stern has found the formula.
Speaker: It's like writing a Bon Jovi song.
Speaker: It's the same song, but some reason people buy it.
Speaker: And so if you look at the reason why they're pushing bands,
Speaker: and it's either a band or a movie or something like that that is tied to a theme, it's because it is successful.
Speaker: It sells because even if you look at The Beatles, which is arguably the most expensive license of all time.
Speaker: Okay, so here's the math on it.
Speaker: Let's just say that it's a million dollar license, which is, you know, he said it was what the first seven figure license.
Speaker: So let's just pretend it's a million dollars.
Speaker: If they sell 960 or 1,965 of them, that breaks down to $508 a machine.
Speaker: And so if you can make a machine that actually has some sort of license that is good and do it for 300 bucks a game, why would you not take that and immediately get that brand?
Speaker: Because they've already spent a billion dollars on marketing that brand as opposed to trying to plow your own turf.
Speaker: Dialed in is great, but I think everybody still kind of looks at it and says, well, the theme's not really my bag.
Speaker: And there's a reason why Lord of the Rings still holds up all these years later is because it is Lord of the Rings and not like Doodle Jump or something.
Speaker: Oh, Doodle Jump.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I got eliminated on a tournament on that game.
Speaker: You had to say that.
Speaker: Oh, for some odd reason, I thought it was the mobile game that everyone was obsessed with like eight years ago.
Speaker: Oh, it's Doodle Bug that I got eliminated on.
Speaker: Doodle Jump was too close.
Speaker: No, that's fine.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I look at Stern right now, and don't get me wrong.
Speaker: I appreciate what Stern's doing.
Speaker: I really think that they are presenting a good product.
Speaker: But I feel like they've become stagnant in their layouts and stuff like that.
Speaker: I mean, honestly, everything they're putting out is good right now.
Speaker: But the last great hit they've had, ACDC, I mean, everyone can argue right now.
Speaker: You could say it's Batman 66.
Speaker: You could say it's Guardians of the Galaxy or whatever it may be.
Speaker: Walking Dead.
Speaker: Walking Dead.
Speaker: Yeah, Walking Dead.
Speaker: But when I look at...
Speaker: a Borg layout, I see very, a lot of similarities between each one of his games.
Speaker: I don't feel like there's a massive difference between each game to realize that we're heading in a different direction every time we see a pinball machine.
Speaker: And that's not a knock on Borg.
Speaker: That's just the fact that, you know, family outs are all pretty, they have to be laid out a certain way because of the shots that you have to take.
Speaker: And so you can't take too much risk without it feeling clunky and whatnot.
Speaker: But,
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I just, I don't think, I don't think theme necessarily is what make or breaks a pinball machine at this point.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I mean, it's a big part of it for, uh, for some people like that, that are like their initial draw to it.
Speaker: But as far as like your enjoyment over the longterm, yeah, I understand.
Speaker: Well, are you going to have a Lord of the Rings downstairs or are you going to h ave a wheel of fortune?
Speaker: let's just assume that Wheel of Fortune has this amazing rule set.
Speaker: You're still going to want to look at something nice.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: But like I said, I keep kicking it back to like giant mnemonic and the shadow.
Speaker: And I guess the other thing that plays into that too is price.
Speaker: Do you want a giant mnemonic, a shadow, and possibly something else for the price of a Lord of the Rings?
Speaker: Or do you want to Lord of the Rings?
Speaker: I think most people would rather have
Speaker: one great machine as opposed to three mediocre ones but that that's my take yes and no i think it comes back to space and availability at that point too so yeah it goes in flux i think your um chain your taste will change over time um what what you want like i've lately been
Speaker: fading back to the older games.
Speaker: Like I've loved solid state and EM games, um, a lot lately.
Speaker: I think that's why TNA has been really scratching my itch.
Speaker: Um, like one of the games I really want to chase down as a skate ball.
Speaker: I tried and just missed one today, but, um, I don't know, like as your taste changes, I think you're, you're, uh,
Speaker: opinions on theme or the price tags of what comes with those things um it just gets shifted around a little bit and it might it might be a little bit cyclical like after after a while i might be ready for some of those really fast more modern take games again like say yeah give me these games just crank it up to 10 on speed and
Speaker: more modern themes and are bright and flashy.
Speaker: We'll see.
Speaker: I'm kind of right there with you too, Jeff.
Speaker: I guess my first game was an amazing Spider-Man by Gottlieb.
Speaker: And I actually liked the shots on it because I felt like I was just shooting different shots.
Speaker: And for being new to the hobby, I wasn't looking for the depth.
Speaker: I wasn't looking for, I mean, really the only complaint I had at that point was to have multi-ball.
Speaker: And I enjoyed the shots and whatnot.
Speaker: But it makes me curious.
Speaker: I would like to get my hands on a Beatles.
Speaker: I really think Beatles would help kind of like a TNA scratch that itch and feel that kind of not floatiness, but it's, I don't know, there's something that's appealing to one of those classic games that they're short, but they're still fun.
Speaker: See, I would be interested in the Beatles as a rethink.
Speaker: Because I know it's a re-theme already, but the 1964 Beatles does nothing for me.
Speaker: However, maybe a 1967 or 1969.
Speaker: But I looked at the song selection on that, and I am a Beatles fan.
Speaker: And I looked at that and thought, I'm not interested in any of these songs.
Speaker: Well, maybe Beatles is the new Wonelli.
Speaker: I don't know if they have to keep paying Dennis Norman now that he's gone.
Speaker: I don't know if he owns the rights to that layout or whatever.
Speaker: But maybe they'll just say, hey, we're going to start retheming Beatles for everything else we got out the door.
Speaker: And maybe they won't just because at this point, I mean, Beatles is kind of a high price tag and all that jazz.
Speaker: And it was the limited run of it and everything.
Speaker: If you remade it and made as many as you wanted, that kind of
Speaker: knocks Beatles down a peg besides the theme, I guess.
Speaker: Yeah, but sure.
Speaker: I mean, how, how many games are they really selling over 2000?
Speaker: I, I, although they said it's limited to 1964, that's probably pretty close to their run on most games.
Speaker: Now it's 1965 after poor Chris Franchi's got washed out and destroyed.
Speaker: They're building him a brand new one.
Speaker: So I don't know if that technically still counts as 1964, but.
Speaker: It's the CF edition.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's the, the under the, or not.
Speaker: That's for Christopher Franchi anyway, by the way.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: CFLE.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I was singing the yellow submarine one, but.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So moving on, uh, just wanted to do a quick shout out to Dennis Creasel from the eclectic gamers pinball podcast.
Speaker: His house got broken into this last couple of days and there was a bunch of stuff stolen.
Speaker: The pinball machine seems safe and I don't know how he's doing, but it looked like he got a brand new pinball machine put into his home during all this mess.
Speaker: Uh, I think he ended up getting a total nuclear annihilation.
Speaker: If I remember correctly, I could be wrong.
Speaker: He did.
Speaker: He did.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And so, um,
Speaker: I guess, I don't know.
Speaker: My heart goes out to him.
Speaker: I live in a small town, so I don't have to worry.
Speaker: Well, we do get break-ins every once in a while, but it's funny when a break-in happens, it becomes like a citywide thing here, and everyone kind of like...
Speaker: catches the bad guy i don't know how else to put it and so i out there i don't know how it is out there but it reminds me of that episode of big bang theory where the guys get their stuff broken in and sheldon never feels safe like he's shoving the dresser against the front wall and stuff like that or the front door and i don't know i guess what i'm trying to say is my heart goes out to dennis that's gotta suck yeah it's that's you just feel violated it's it's horrible
Speaker: Sorry, Dennis.
Speaker: You're a good dude.
Speaker: I know you.
Speaker: We've played pinball together.
Speaker: I crushed you.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: That was very sincere.
Speaker: Sorry, dude.
Speaker: I still ruled you.
Speaker: I still destroyed it.
Speaker: Oh, my goodness.
Speaker: You got to have fun with Dennis.
Speaker: Dennis can talk a big game.
Speaker: So you got to let him have it back.
Speaker: I think that's the only way I'll beat you at pinball, Jeff, is to trash talk you into oblivion.
Speaker: I don't know about that.
Speaker: Speaking of trying to beat you at pinball, Scott sent us, me and Jeff, throughout the week as we were kind of discussing show notes and whatnot.
Speaker: Um, cowboy pinball.
Speaker: If you haven't seen this, I'm going to try to link it in the show notes, but I bet, I bet I could beat you at cowboy pinball.
Speaker: You want to, you want to try this out?
Speaker: There's, there's no chance.
Speaker: This is the ultimate dude.
Speaker: Hold my beer.
Speaker: I mean, I work at a hospital and that's, that's the standard joke.
Speaker: The two things that are said right before someone comes to the ER.
Speaker: is y'all check this out, hold my beer.
Speaker: And for some reason, they got 20 rednecks to go and stand in the middle of a rodeo and have a bull come chasing at them and they're supposed to not move.
Speaker: Yeah, it's, you never want to be the pop bumper for a bull.
Speaker: Yeah, no, there's not enough depends in the world to outfit enough cowboys to go out there.
Speaker: But you get a hundred bucks if you grab it, the hundred dollar bill off its giblets or its flank.
Speaker: I don't know what they called it.
Speaker: That is a special kind of stupid.
Speaker: Your deductible is way more than that.
Speaker: You gotta understand though, these people, I don't know where this was filmed.
Speaker: I can't remember if it was in Texas or whatnot.
Speaker: These small towns, this is what fun is.
Speaker: Sorry, my father.
Speaker: One of their favorite games was they would get drunk and then they would find a paddle and they would find a bull out in the middle of the field and they'd run up to the bull, slap the bull on the nuts with the paddle, and then run off and try not to get ran over.
Speaker: This is like Tommy Boy.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It is what it is.
Speaker: And so, I don't know.
Speaker: Maybe that's why I enjoy pinball more because I don't have to worry about getting stabbed to death by a bullhorn.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, I just run.
Speaker: I don't need $100.
Speaker: No, I wouldn't even get in the rink.
Speaker: Like, there's no way.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Not even for $100.
Speaker: I mean, you'd have to dial that up a lot.
Speaker: Yeah, it'd have to be at least $200.
Speaker: Yeah, I don't think this is going to be a long-lived sport.
Speaker: Actually, I think that's actually been done at a lot of rodeos.
Speaker: I hear about cowboy pinball.
Speaker: But now, what if they put a Stern new pinball machine on the line?
Speaker: Maybe get that WWE that you've always been looking for?
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: Yeah, WWE.
Speaker: They have a few LEs left.
Speaker: You get on that, and we'll go from there.
Speaker: How about that, Scott?
Speaker: Yeah, I think I'm good.
Speaker: All right, well, moving on, let's get talking about the pinball betting that's starting to pop up.
Speaker: Everyone's trying to bet on the circuit finals.
Speaker: Either one of you in on this?
Speaker: I'm not a bettor.
Speaker: No, I'm not going to bet on pinball.
Speaker: It's just pinball is too cruel.
Speaker: The ball bounces the wrong way in basketball and screws you on bets all the time.
Speaker: It's sure to do it in pinball.
Speaker: Well, and I want to – Bo and Karen's actually posted this on his Facebook page, and I kind of agreed what he says.
Speaker: I'm going to quote it really quick.
Speaker: This is from his girlfriend, Kristen.
Speaker: It just seems best for all involved if independence is absolutely clear.
Speaker: Putting aside the fact that sports betting is still illegal in most states –
Speaker: Illinois is included.
Speaker: In most sports betting, your players aren't also the referees.
Speaker: They aren't the ones deciding which bats are legal or making sure what the lines are painted correctly on the court, etc.
Speaker: So it seems if we as a community are going to endorse betting on pinball, which I'm personally not for, it seems like we'd be better to get...
Speaker: it seems like we better get a lot more serious on the independence of those involved with setting up tournaments and those who compete.
Speaker: And it goes on a little bit more than that.
Speaker: But I never really thought of it until they had said that.
Speaker: And I was like, oh, yeah, that's kind of true.
Speaker: You could, it would be easily rigged, which I'm not saying we're going to do that.
Speaker: I'm not saying anyone would be willing to do that.
Speaker: But yeah, well, I think you have to in a sport that has betting.
Speaker: the athletes have to be compensated well, well above what they could possibly get by fixing something.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: Um, but one thing is with betting is there has to be a hundred percent integrity in the sport to make the bet better.
Speaker: I don't know, legit, valid.
Speaker: I don't know how to say it.
Speaker: But one thing that happens a lot, and I've seen it happen in pinball, and I've had an offer to do it too, is sometimes when players get to the finals, they just agree to split the pot, and they're not necessarily playing their hardest for the first, second, third, and fourth finish.
Speaker: They just kind of casually play out.
Speaker: that yeah because they're already and maybe someone or another will play a little bit harder because they do want the first place trophy but yeah i've seen it where it's just not that big of a deal for them i don't know if and there's no way to enforce it right like you can't tell how hard someone's actually playing so pinball is a little bit different and and there's a really good point being made about the rulings um
Speaker: Boy, if there's money being placed, it's crazy to think.
Speaker: Could you imagine if one of the players in the NBA Finals was also a ref?
Speaker: That's crazy.
Speaker: That is crazy.
Speaker: Well, and people are willing to sandbag for whopper points.
Speaker: I mean, I think someone would be more willing to sandbag for money at that point.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: Yeah, I just legitimately, I just don't see it being a huge issue.
Speaker: But I'm not a gambler, so I don't really understand why you really want to.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, that pretty much wraps it up for the news.
Speaker: I don't know if you guys had anything else you wanted to talk about.
Speaker: Me personally, actually, I want to talk about one thing before we get going.
Speaker: I came out last Friday because my wife for Valentine's Day wanted to see Wicked and we'd never seen that play before.
Speaker: And she allowed me 20 minutes to play pinball and I was pretty excited.
Speaker: That sounds terrible.
Speaker: Should not allow me.
Speaker: It wasn't like, yeah, anyhow, I didn't have to ask permission or anything like that.
Speaker: But I just told her, I'm like, hey, we got 20 minutes to kill.
Speaker: So finally, we'll play pinball.
Speaker: I haven't been down to Kido's yet.
Speaker: I went and checked that place out.
Speaker: Got my hands on a Munsters.
Speaker: Yeah, that game is entirely too dark for its own good.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It's so dark.
Speaker: Yeah, like I was trying to see what was going on.
Speaker: And it's it's fun.
Speaker: Don't get me wrong.
Speaker: But like I wasn't super impressed, but I only played three games on it.
Speaker: but it was still enjoyable.
Speaker: Like, yeah, I would like to get more time on it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I, I'm not.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Like, so on my last episode of my podcast, I just kind of said I'm a little bit meh on it.
Speaker: I'm now to the point where I think it's just kind of a dumb game.
Speaker: It's not unfixable, but rule wise is just kind of dumb.
Speaker: Um, you can get into the wizard mode of that thing so fast.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It's just – it needs some work.
Speaker: There's some fun stuff to do there, but it just needs some work.
Speaker: Yeah, my first time playing that, I'm not an av – I would not put myself in the top 100 players of the world.
Speaker: I got – I was four modes in and not even paying attention.
Speaker: And –
Speaker: I'm going to legitimate legitimize our podcast right now by officially announcing Lee.
Speaker: I was playing with Lee because he's always at Kido's for some odd reason.
Speaker: He said, he is.
Speaker: We're not legit till we say his name.
Speaker: So I ran to him there and we were playing together and he's like, dude, what were you doing?
Speaker: I'm like, I don't know.
Speaker: And he's like, you're one mode away from starting up the wizard mode or the mini wizard mode.
Speaker: I was like, oh, I didn't even notice.
Speaker: Like I was just hitting the ball around because I wanted to see what, you know, you know how it is when you get on a pinball machine for the first time.
Speaker: You just want to see what happens.
Speaker: Shooting flashing lights.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: Forget the guidelines.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It was enjoyable.
Speaker: Don't get me wrong.
Speaker: But I was actually enjoying Deadpool more than I was enjoying Monsters.
Speaker: But no, it was pretty fun.
Speaker: And then I actually hit Nickel Mania and they got Indiana Jones in there, but not the good one.
Speaker: Oh, the one that you can play for an hour and 45 minutes.
Speaker: That was my first impression of it.
Speaker: I was playing and I was playing and 15 minutes goes by.
Speaker: My wife's like, are you going to move on to a new machine?
Speaker: And it gets to that point where like, do I just drain and walk away?
Speaker: Do I keep going?
Speaker: Like it's like 65 million.
Speaker: And I finally decided just to drain out because, well, that's the thing.
Speaker: It just gives you extra balls too.
Speaker: I was like, where am I getting extra balls from?
Speaker: Extra balls and multi balls, man.
Speaker: Oh my goodness.
Speaker: It's nuts.
Speaker: It's never a good feeling when you can't wait for your ball to drain.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So that's one of those games that if I see it, sometimes I'm like, yeah, I'll go put some initials up on it.
Speaker: Because I just know I can.
Speaker: I can play it until I'll go check the high scores.
Speaker: Okay, that's what I'm shooting for.
Speaker: Okay, got it.
Speaker: See, I think that's why they never have that version of Indiana Jones at Disneyland.
Speaker: And they have the Williams version.
Speaker: Because if they had that version, there would be one dude playing all day.
Speaker: Yep, yep.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, that's why also threw me for a loop that day, my first game on Indiana Jones.
Speaker: And I got to put my name up on this the scoreboard.
Speaker: I was like, what?
Speaker: What the crap?
Speaker: And I was all excited.
Speaker: I took the picture and put on Pindigo, and I'm like four out of the other four people that have played.
Speaker: I'm like, how am I at the bottom?
Speaker: And I realized if I was draining out at $65 million, someone definitely went higher than that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's crazy.
Speaker: The first time I played it, I just thought, there's not much I like about this.
Speaker: It just didn't feel like I want to come back and put another quarter in.
Speaker: No, it's not good.
Speaker: It's neat when it dumps a bunch of balls out of the arc, but that novelty wears off.
Speaker: You can buy Aerosmith and do that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, and you know what's funny, though?
Speaker: My wife is not an avid pinball player at all.
Speaker: She looked at me and she's like, wow, they finally got rid of Shrek.
Speaker: That one is a turd.
Speaker: I was like...
Speaker: If my wife doesn't... Her favorite pinball machine right now is Whirlwind because it blows you in the face when you start the topper.
Speaker: I like Whirlwind.
Speaker: It's a good game, don't get me wrong.
Speaker: But what I'm saying is if something about pinball is your favorite and it's actually not really technically pinball, it's a fan that's timed.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker: You're claiming Shrek's a turd.
Speaker: There must be a problem with Shrek.
Speaker: But I don't know.
Speaker: That could just be me.
Speaker: It's not really a turd.
Speaker: It's just, it's the reason why I haven't sold it is because the two games, well, the three games I have that are so different than the others, I have Shrek, I have Black Rose, and I have Wizard of Oz.
Speaker: And if you look at those three compared to all the others, they are, well, I guess you could put Simpsons Pinball Party in there, but all the other ones I have are very similar in like a fan layout or something.
Speaker: And they're great games.
Speaker: But I have a hard time selling something that fills a unique niche in my grouping.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, I understand that.
Speaker: Well, let's wrap this up.
Speaker: We've been going over for a little more of an hour.
Speaker: Jeff, where can we find you?
Speaker: Pinball related?
Speaker: Just...
Speaker: everywhere.
Speaker: I, I know you've got your other thing too, and it's fantastic.
Speaker: I've been listening to have we met yet or have we met?
Speaker: It's, that's great.
Speaker: If you haven't checked that out, I would recommend checking that out.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's coming back.
Speaker: So, um, yeah, for pinball, it's just the pinball podcast.com.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: the most pretentious named pinball podcast out there.
Speaker: So the other pinball podcast, yeah, the thing you mentioned, have we met?
Speaker: It's my other podcast.
Speaker: Just have we met, have we met.net new episodes coming soon on that.
Speaker: And if you don't know me and you want to come on that show,
Speaker: uh, fell out a form on the site.
Speaker: That'd be fun.
Speaker: Uh, I don't have much else going on.
Speaker: I just trying to get a little bit more active again, back into pinball.
Speaker: I kind of took a little bit of a break, but, um, coming back.
Speaker: So yeah, that's most of my stuff.
Speaker: Uh, jar one 55, pretty much everywhere.
Speaker: If you want to like find me like on Instagram or social media or whatever.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: And you guys know where to find us.
Speaker: We are at the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at SoundCloud.
Speaker: You can find us on iTunes.
Speaker: You can find us on Android, wherever your podcast dreams are taken.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: And if you want to reach out to us, Facebook's probably the best way.
Speaker: I've got Scott hooked up on there now, so you will not only get a hold of me, but you can also get a hold of Scott through the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at Facebook and Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com.
Speaker: So, uh, great conversations.
Speaker: I've been kind of shocked at the warm reception we've been receiving.
Speaker: I did not expect this kind of, uh, uh, people reaching out to us when we started this.
Speaker: I did this as a goof off.
Speaker: Hey, you guys get shout outs all over the place.
Speaker: Mad.
Speaker: I've been really shocked at all of it.
Speaker: I really have been.
Speaker: So no, it made sense to me.
Speaker: I, I, I expected it.
Speaker: So you guys are doing great.
Speaker: We appreciate it.
Speaker: So thanks Jeff.
Speaker: Thanks.
Speaker: Catch you later.
