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From the Start Line to the Workshop: The CES Ironman Story
15 Plays18 days ago
What started as a simple frustration, wanting faster race wheels without the £3,000+ price tag, turned into a garage-born idea that now supports professional athletes on the world stage, including Ironman World Championship racing.
Joe shares how CES was built from the ground up, why the brand is named after his wife and daughters, and what it really takes to turn passion into a business in the competitive cycling industry. From hand built craftsmanship and UCI approval to the realities of COVID, Brexit, and the changing bike market, this is an honest look at the highs, lows, and lessons learned along the way.
Scott and Joe also dive into:
- Aero vs weight, what actually makes you faster
- Disc wheels, tri-spokes, and handling in crosswinds
- Why confidence on the bike beats chasing marginal gains
- Common mistakes age-group triathletes make when upgrading
- The dream of seeing a British bike brand paired with British wheels
Whether you're an age-grouper chasing your next PB, dreaming of Kona, or just love hearing real stories from inside the sport, this episode is packed with insight, inspiration, and practical advice.
This is a story about family, Ironman, and building something meaningful from scratch.
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Transcript
Introduction to UK Tri Chat and CES Sports Limited
00:00:01
Scott Hill
Welcome to another episode of UK Tri Chat, hosted by myself, Scott Hill, TriWolf Triathlon Coaching. I'm pleased to say that today we've got Joe Ems on the channel, who's going to be talking about his product. So Joe is from CES Sports Limited. and Those that didn't know, that is a sports brand for cycling wheels.
00:00:20
Scott Hill
Based in the UK, and I believe you're based in Wales now,
Joe Ems's Connection to South Wales
00:00:23
Scott Hill
Joe. i just wonder if you want to...
00:00:24
Joe (CES)
That's right, Scott. Yeah, yeah. Cardiff, South Wales.
00:00:27
Scott Hill
But you're not originally from South Wales, as we've just found out as well.
00:00:31
Joe (CES)
No, I'm not. no. I'm originally a Shropshire boy. um Grew up in Cambridge um and then found myself down in South Wales about, ooh, about 24 years ago now.
00:00:43
Scott Hill
That's a long time ago.
00:00:43
Joe (CES)
And then, um yeah, and then stayed down here ever since. So I'm a
00:00:46
Scott Hill
So you must have liked it in Wales, wet weather, hilly climate.
00:00:52
Joe (CES)
perfect cycling weather, right? um
00:00:54
Scott Hill
So yeah,
00:00:55
Joe (CES)
Yeah, and I fell in love with the place. um my My dad was originally from South Wales, so um so they have they have taken me on as a there an adopted Welshman down there, which is great.
00:01:05
Scott Hill
We haven't picked up the accent yet, though.
00:01:07
Joe (CES)
Not yet. It depends who talking to. ah
00:01:10
Scott Hill
No, I can imagine. I can imagine. So CES Sports Limited, a wheel company. You've built this over some years now. Tell us little
Origin Story of CES Wheels
00:01:20
Scott Hill
bit about that. How did that come about? And and obviously you can tell by the memorabilia behind you there that you've got a passion for triathlon anyway, but just tell us a bit about CES Wheels then.
00:01:29
Joe (CES)
Yeah, sure. So, well, I suppose it started, love for bikes started years ago. You know, as a kid, I used to, used to race bikes, used to race mountain bikes, did a bit of downhill racing in my time as well.
00:01:45
Joe (CES)
But it wasn't ah until probably my early thirties, I caught the the triathlon bug. um These behind me came a lot, a lot later.
00:01:58
Joe (CES)
um But CES came about, um you could call it almost a back of a fag packet type idea. um Like most triathletes, I was looking for for upgrades on my bike.
00:02:14
Joe (CES)
First thing I was looking at was ah was a decent set of wheels. We had just had our second order, funds were well low, shall I say. And when I started looking around at what was out there,
00:02:29
Joe (CES)
some of the bigger brands that were, i suppose, more prominent in the market. You're looking at sort of two, 3,000 pound for a set of wheels. At the time, there was no way I could afford that.
00:02:42
Joe (CES)
So I started looking into was like, okay, well, what what would it take to piece something together for myself? What would it take to find decent rims, hubs, spokes, and piece together a decent set of race wheels for myself?
00:02:56
Joe (CES)
And that's how the initial concept of CES came about.
00:03:00
Joe (CES)
Obviously, once I built my first set, it then kind of got me thinking, well, I think at the time, when was it? it was about 2016 at the time, triathlon was was known to be probably the fastest growing sport globally.
00:03:18
Joe (CES)
And it got me thinking, well, if I'm in this position, I can pretty much guarantee there's lots of other people out there in exactly the same position as me once grabbed their bike, but haven't got two or 3000 pound a set what to to spend on say a a set of zips or a set of Envy's or anything like that.
00:03:41
Scott Hill
yeah I reckon
00:03:41
Joe (CES)
And that's how, that's kind of how it came about really.
00:03:45
Scott Hill
and say i think that's quite prominent today as well. I think people are in the same situation 10 years on. People are still in that same boat looking for that set of wheels for their performance to give them extra gains, but don't have that 3,000, 4,000 back.
00:03:52
Joe (CES)
100% yeah yeah 100% and it kind of sorry yeah you want Scott?
00:03:57
Joe (CES)
hundred seven yeah hundred percent and it kind of because
00:04:01
Scott Hill
I was going to say CES, does that stand for anything in particular?
00:04:03
Joe (CES)
sorry yeah jo got
00:04:09
Joe (CES)
Yeah, this is when the audience see the soppy side of me. So CES actually stands, it's the initials, the first names of my wife and two daughters. So Keris, Ella and Sarah.
00:04:23
Joe (CES)
So that's what CES stands for. And yeah, a lot of people didn't know that until recently.
00:04:29
Scott Hill
No, no, that's good. It's good to know. And it's, you know, it's, ah I guess it's, it was meaningful as well. It probably means a lot to you. it means a lot to them. And it's got a bit of a legacy in that, guess.
00:04:37
Joe (CES)
Yeah, yeah.
00:04:40
Joe (CES)
100%. It means something to me. It means something to the family. It it's plays to our roots as a company. you know it's It's what we're all about.
00:04:52
Joe (CES)
um and And yeah, no, it's very very close to my heart.
00:04:52
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:04:55
Joe (CES)
And you know I'm sure we'll discuss it a little bit later on, but when say there's a big race on telly or something like that whether it's they say the olympics or the ironman world championship summon when my kids see one of my wheels on the telly they see their name on the telly and i absolutely love it it's amazing
00:05:19
Scott Hill
That's quite a nice feeling, I guess.
Quality and Personalization in Wheel Building
00:05:21
Joe (CES)
yeah no it is it's great
00:05:23
Scott Hill
um So you mentioned there, like, you built your own set of wheels. So I'm guessing you built them from scratch, your own set of wheels, based on buying the parts.
00:05:30
Joe (CES)
No, not in the first instance.
00:05:31
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:05:32
Joe (CES)
so i i um I outsourced the first set. I basically decided what components I wanted, what rim, what spokes and everything like that. And i had I basically pieced together, if you like, I use the term loosely, but the design of what I was after.
00:05:49
Scott Hill
okay
00:05:49
Joe (CES)
um And then I outsourced that. And that was, that was if you like, my my prototype set. To me, as a company, and you know, clear transparency, I'm not a wheel builder myself.
00:06:03
Joe (CES)
So I've got a team of of experienced mechanics and wheel builders who work for the company, um who meticulously hand build all the wheels for us.
00:06:15
Scott Hill
Yeah, and I guess and they they must have a passion and love for the sport as well to do that and get enjoyment out of it.
00:06:19
Joe (CES)
Oh, 100%. And varying backgrounds as well. You know, like, Sean,
00:06:23
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:06:25
Joe (CES)
who's my head wheel builder, his background is actually mountain biking. But he's is's a very, very experienced bike mechanic as a whole.
00:06:30
Scott Hill
Right.
00:06:34
Joe (CES)
And he's been building wheels for God knows how long. Phil, one of my other mechanics, he has a background in in triathlon and gravel riding and you name it anything with two wheels, Phil will ride So it's quite nice the fact they've got a varying background and varying of experience as well.
00:06:50
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:06:55
Scott Hill
Yeah. I guess that, I mean, that experience is is very broad and I guess it brings in different experiences personally from them into that wheel build as well. So whereas someone might get a feel out of a road set of wheels, someone else would have a different feel out of a mountain bike thing.
00:07:11
Scott Hill
And I guess they bring that experience into, into the business, into your building, I guess. Yeah.
00:07:15
Joe (CES)
100 and you know and i think that's that's and another thing that we were trying to bring to it as well was that that personal hand-built element of a set of wheels now don't get me wrong you know there's some of the bigger companies like globally massive companies that produce wheels. And I named some of them already likes of your zip and your Envy's, you know, they are global market leaders for a reason.
00:07:42
Joe (CES)
They produce brilliant world-class quality wheels, no doubt about that. But there is a difference between hand-built and mass produced wheels.
00:07:53
Joe (CES)
You know, the amount of time and effort that goes into building the wheels And as I mentioned earlier on meticulously going through the process of bringing the wheels up to tension, um de-stressing them multiple times, making sure they're aligned and tensioned perfectly for ah for our customers.
00:08:17
Joe (CES)
which, you know, machines do that well. And, you know, you go to some of the big factories and yeah, they've got the machines that will bring the wheels up to tension. But there is there is something different about hand-built wheel.
00:08:30
Joe (CES)
And I think if you ask anybody who has ridden both a factory mass-produced wheel and a hand-built wheel, they will tell you that.
00:08:42
Scott Hill
So you're in the background, flicking the kettle bringing the biscuits while they're building your wheels.
00:08:46
Joe (CES)
Yeah. Well, you know, that they're doing it they're doing the artwork.
00:08:47
Scott Hill
not that
00:08:51
Joe (CES)
I'm i'm the the puppet master behind behind the scenes pulling all the strings.
00:08:57
Scott Hill
So very early on then in 2016, I guess that was quite, it was new to you.
00:09:00
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:09:02
Scott Hill
It was, I guess, difficult at the time was their struggles then with with the with the actual production and getting it good.
00:09:07
Joe (CES)
Oh, God, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I i thought at the time was going to plain sailing. You know, I had my, like, bearing in mind that, That first prototype wheel was built in the September of 2016.
00:09:21
Joe (CES)
The company launched, it went live in the December the same year. So it was a very quick process.
00:09:25
Scott Hill
Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:27
Joe (CES)
And of course at the time was thinking, yeah, this is going to be easy. This is going to be straightforward. This, no problems at all.
Challenges and Growth of CES
00:09:33
Joe (CES)
um Little did I underestimate the amount of work that was going to be involved in running a business. You know, it's,
00:09:41
Joe (CES)
To anybody out there who's looking at going alone, great, go for it. you know It's great fun. you You get loads out of it. Just be prepared for the hard work, be prepared for the ups and and more importantly, the downs as well.
00:09:57
Joe (CES)
um So yeah, I wouldn't say there was any massive mistakes or anything. It's just ah it's just a steep learning curve. you know And might although I enjoyed cycling and triathlon as a hobby,
00:10:05
Scott Hill
Yeah. Yeah.
00:10:11
Joe (CES)
I'd never worked in the industry. So my my background it was predominantly in in sales. So from an outsider coming into the industry as well, it's a very big steep learning curve.
00:10:25
Joe (CES)
Wouldn't change it for the world though. Love it, absolutely love it
00:10:29
Scott Hill
And that's the main thing, isn't it? it's It's something you love and passionate about and that's the driving factor now. You know, you always hear about don't you? People go for what you enjoy, go and do what you love. If you if you love your job, it's not it doesn't feel like a job.
00:10:42
Scott Hill
um
00:10:43
Joe (CES)
100%. It's a passion.
00:10:43
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:10:44
Joe (CES)
It's a passion.
00:10:45
Scott Hill
No, it's good.
00:10:45
Joe (CES)
you know is's It is great. And that you know I mentioned earlier on when even now, almost 10 years on, and I see our wheels in a magazine, we see them online, we see them on the telly.
00:11:00
Joe (CES)
I still get that buzz. I still get that that excitement from seeing them. you know it's It's brilliant. you know like We've had some of the world's best triathletes over the years um ride our wheels. If I'd have gone back to, if I'd have asked Joe in 2016, whether that was going to happen, I'd be like, are you mad?
00:11:23
Joe (CES)
um
00:11:23
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:11:24
Joe (CES)
To have our wheels race by a pro at the Ironman World Championships, what the is that about? You know, it's, and I think that's, I suppose that's testament to us and how far we've come, you know?
00:11:36
Scott Hill
Yeah, that's good. So your wheels predominantly road bike trying time trial triathlon bikes.
00:11:43
Joe (CES)
We do a mixture of all. um I would say predominantly our our customer base are triathletes. But we produce a mixture of wheels focused on the road, triathlon.
00:11:59
Joe (CES)
We do a range of off-road wheels. so we've We've got a range of mountain bike wheels, sets of 29ers. um And then obviously the the recent craze of gravel bikes. We also have a gravel range as well.
00:12:12
Joe (CES)
um
00:12:12
Scott Hill
Oh, wow.
00:12:13
Joe (CES)
So we we try, although i suppose our background is triathlon naturally, because that's where I suppose more recently, that's where I came from. um We've got a range of wheels to accommodate pretty much everybody out there who's riding on on two wheels.
00:12:32
Scott Hill
Yeah. I guess that's close.
00:12:32
Joe (CES)
And if there's anything we haven't done, if there's anything we haven't done, hell, we'll give it a go. You know, we we created...
00:12:37
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:12:40
Joe (CES)
um a set of wheels for a hand bike a few years ago. customer came to us and said, right, I want to set a deep section aero wheels, which involve, you know, one at the front, two at the back.
00:12:56
Joe (CES)
Can you do it me I was like, yeah, great. Let's do it. Let's let's see what we can do. so So we're always up for a challenge.
00:13:00
Scott Hill
that's quite clear yeah well we've I've just been on ah a family holiday. were in Lanzarote as family. and for No cycling in this time. But ah ah the the amount of hand cycles I saw was more than I'd seen in years past.
00:13:15
Joe (CES)
Really?
00:13:15
Scott Hill
so
00:13:16
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:13:17
Scott Hill
Yeah, so it's really interesting to see, you know, that people's abilities and disabilities and whatever else, there is people out there that are now getting active in different ways and seeing that I can still get on a bike. Yes, it's a different way, but I can still get out there, do exercise. And if they've got a passion for cycling, always have them, but they can't ride a road bike as they potentially normally would. They're now out there on on handbikes. And I see, honestly, a significant ah amount of hand bikes out there that I've never seen before. And it's it's quite positive to see. And I quite like that, you know, because it's still people out there. And I've seen them in races as well. And it's <unk> still that community spirit behind it. And people are still welcoming and people still see hello, even when he's cycling past them and or even they can pass you in some cases because some are pretty quick. And I guess they're always looking for advantages as well. And if you've got people out there that are using hand bikes more often, then
00:14:11
Scott Hill
they are they're not what's the word i'm looking for they're not they're not that they're included they can be included and that's performance gains for them by ces sports limit
00:14:23
Joe (CES)
Yeah, 100%. And that's that's one one thing I would say is, you know, we We've got a range of products listed on our site. If there's something you want that's not on there, get in touch with
Sponsorships and Community Engagement
00:14:34
Joe (CES)
us and we'll see. We'll see what we can do together.
00:14:37
Joe (CES)
We're always up for a challenge. And um yeah, if you don't ask, you don't get right?
00:14:43
Scott Hill
Exactly and yeah and why not try why not try but um so mountain bike wheels um how how are they how are they going then in comparison because obviously your background road cycling time trial triathlon um how obviously you've got specialists in the field already I guess that was no end of knowledge that helped you develop that and then obviously they're riding them as well I'm guessing
00:14:44
Joe (CES)
Yep.
00:15:07
Joe (CES)
Yeah, 100%. I'm sure Sean won't mind me saying that was him putting the pressure on me. Initially, it was just race. It was road wheels was the thing. And it was Sean putting on the pressure to me to create the Copa um mountain bike wheels.
00:15:26
Joe (CES)
I think secretly it's probably because he needed a new set wheels for himself.
00:15:29
Scott Hill
Yeah. OK.
00:15:30
Joe (CES)
um um But yeah, you know, like it's is is a part of of the range. It's a part of the business where we do want to grow more.
00:15:40
Joe (CES)
Like all of the the athletes that we support and I think predominantly they come from a triathlon background. I'm not sure if you've seen on our socials recently, we are in search of a new ambassador on on a gravel, with a gravel racing background.
00:15:55
Joe (CES)
So if anybody's watching, go onto our socials, you can see um one of our posts our Instagram page where you know we're encouraging people to come forward if they want to help us promote our gravel range.
00:16:10
Joe (CES)
But it is something we want to try and develop and look at a little bit more. But you've only got to look at the likes of Hunt, for example, UK based exactly what they've done, you know, they started out with their road bikes.
00:16:22
Joe (CES)
um But now they have a ah really competitive range of mountain bike and gravel wheels as well. And that's the that's the the kind of position that we we want to aspire to be in.
00:16:32
Scott Hill
yeah well i i actually got a mountain bike last month um because of the prolonged wet weather that we're having in the uk right now don't i don't want to go out and ride my bike outside had an accident a couple years ago but that's another story but uh um i i
00:16:36
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:16:45
Joe (CES)
Right. Yep.
00:16:50
Scott Hill
didn't want to bring my road back in and it just be caked in salts and mud and everything else. So I've gone down the road, i've got own bike. I've been out on it a couple of times already through the local forests and i went up to Horseshoe Pass.
00:17:02
Scott Hill
You'll probably know where Horseshoe Pass is anyway, up that way on Panorama and stuff. But yeah, it was good to do something a bit different. And actually, obviously you don't cycle as far as such, but I was blowing going up some of them hills, cycling that.
00:17:16
Joe (CES)
Oh yeah, I bet. You weren't tempted to go down the gravel bike route?
00:17:22
Scott Hill
So I have, I do have a ah cheaper model gravel bike, but I tend to, I did use that through the winter when I was, when I was actually working at RF Shawbury commuting to and from home where I am in, in Shropshire.
00:17:26
Joe (CES)
Okay.
00:17:33
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:17:36
Scott Hill
I don't know many roads or routes to go and cycle gravel. So, but yeah, we'll see maybe, maybe if we can find it, but yeah,
00:17:45
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:17:46
Scott Hill
um I'm enjoying getting outdoors still through this time of year and enjoying getting out with other people. So, and and like you say, the sport's booming gravel riding. are Many people and friends that I know are cycling gravel ride bikes now.
00:17:58
Scott Hill
So, you know, maybe they'll get me along on them as well. We'll see.
00:18:01
Joe (CES)
Yeah, 100%, I'm sure they will.
00:18:01
Scott Hill
It's the two wheels feeling, isn't it? You know, very much like you, I've always cycled bikes from a very young age and still love it today, know.
00:18:13
Joe (CES)
Yeah, oh yeah, well, like um I'm waiting for, well, it's a dry afternoon here in South Wales. i've and I understand there's um a bit of rain on its way. But I, yeah, I'm waiting for these spring evenings to come in so we can head out um a little bit more, which would be nice.
00:18:30
Joe (CES)
um And then just as ah a little plug, I'm doing a charity ride later this year, of May, where we're cycling from Bordeaux down to San Sebastian over five days.
00:18:43
Scott Hill
Wow.
00:18:46
Joe (CES)
So I'm looking forward to that because I'm banking on end of May, it being lovely weather.
00:18:50
Scott Hill
Yeah. What does it work out? How how far you cycle each day then over that five days?
00:18:56
Joe (CES)
It's not mammoth mileage. I think it's anything between sort of 60 to 80 miles a day over five days. um There's a fair amount of elevation. I can't remember off the top my head now um exactly what it is.
00:19:11
Joe (CES)
I think we're we're not we're skirting around the Pyrenees, but I don't think that will stop the legs having to work a bit harder than normal. um But I want to say, I want to say it's going to be about 70, 75 of us doing it.
00:19:28
Scott Hill
a while.
00:19:30
Joe (CES)
So it's a big, big event for a local charity down here called Ospreys in the Community. um And I've done, I did a ride for them last year as well, which was which was brilliant from Amsterdam down to Paris.
00:19:42
Joe (CES)
So um yes, we're involved with that. we're we're We're sponsoring a few jerseys as well. And yeah, should be should be a good week away. I said fingers crossed for some nice French weather as well.
00:19:54
Scott Hill
Coffee shops will love you.
00:19:56
Joe (CES)
Oh, coffee and cake, bring it on.
00:19:59
Scott Hill
Yeah, 70 athletes pulling in for a coffee and cake.
00:20:01
Joe (CES)
Yeah, that's
Compliance and Certification Processes
00:20:02
Joe (CES)
it, exactly. Yeah,
00:20:05
Scott Hill
So obviously, CES wheels then your UCI compliant?
00:20:08
Joe (CES)
yeah, yeah, yeah, we've um we've literally earlier this year,
00:20:10
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:20:15
Joe (CES)
um had a few more of our wheels approved and gone on to the approved register of wheels. As I'm as i sat here, I've got one of our UCI, I don't know if you can see that UCI certificate staring down at me off there off the shelf in front of me.
00:20:36
Scott Hill
you have to Do you have to stamp or stick of the wheels with that?
00:20:36
Joe (CES)
But um
00:20:39
Joe (CES)
no, we don't have to do that at all. um I wanna say it's one of the things UCI don't actually allow. um might be making that up, but I'm pretty sure they they don't allow the actual UCI ah label onto the wheels.
00:20:52
Joe (CES)
um But yeah, you know, it's it's quite important. it's it's not It's not something you have to do
00:21:01
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:21:01
Joe (CES)
um But I think to meet the standard that UCI ask for with what they call non-standard wheels,
00:21:13
Joe (CES)
um I think it's really important. And it's almost like that that stamp of approval, global recognition of the quality of the wheels.
00:21:22
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:21:22
Joe (CES)
And certainly as ah as a smaller company, um I decided from a from the word go that that was something I wanted to to try and work towards for as many of the wheels as possible.
00:21:35
Joe (CES)
And I want to say now we've we've probably got 90 to 95% of our complete range through the process, which is which is good.
00:21:44
Scott Hill
Does that involve testing by them?
00:21:47
Joe (CES)
So not by them directly, we have we have them independently tested. So they they carry out what they call an impact test, where basically the wheel is put into a rig and a weight is dropped onto the wheel from a height.
00:22:06
Joe (CES)
And then what it does, it measures the the lateral stiffness and structural integrity of that wheel after the weight has been dropped on it.
00:22:20
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:22:20
Joe (CES)
um So it's not really something, because it's done independently, it's not it's not something that you can bluff, it's not something you can get around. um So yeah, so it's so this is it's pricey, not going to lie. it's It's not cheap to go through the whole process of of registering and the recognition and the testing itself.
00:22:45
Joe (CES)
But as I said, I felt from from an early point of view it was is an important stamp to have on the brand.
00:22:56
Scott Hill
Yeah, I'd say obviously with people looking across your social media, looking at your websites and stuff, they see that. they see you right this is We know now this is a quality product. And if they're picking up a quality product at a price that's not you know with the other ones you've mentioned earlier on, um I guess it makes them feel better, makes them feel more confident, um makes you feel better as a business, you know as a business owner, all your staff and everyone as well.
00:23:05
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:23:15
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:23:21
Scott Hill
is that quite Was it quite difficult to get the process for it to get into it or, you know, I guess once you're in and you've you've done it once, it's ah it's a straightforward process, it's the same.
00:23:31
Joe (CES)
actually a very straightforward process. Yeah, I know it is. And the UCI, they provide lots of information. So you go on the UCI website, every, the amount of, of guidance there is on the site for different components and different testing methodology and the processes.
00:23:50
Joe (CES)
it's all on It's all on the UCI site. So they provide you with lots of support and information in order to go through the process. So that does make it a hell of a lot easier. um But yeah, once you've done it once, it's, yeah, it does make it easier.
00:24:05
Scott Hill
have you got like um With the wheels you've got now, then is there ah is there a favourite for athletes? Do they tend to go for the bigger rims, the shorter rims? Do you find it's what type of bike are people trying to find the right wheel for? Is it a bit of a mix? Yeah.
00:24:22
Joe (CES)
It's a bit of a mix, be honest you. It depends on the athlete. It really does depend on the athlete. depends why they're going to use them. you know if If you're, say,
00:24:34
Joe (CES)
weekend warrior cyclist, you love going out every weekend, 50, 60 miles under your belt, and you might do a couple of triathlons a year at a push, their wheel selection is going to be very different to somebody who's racing 70.3s and full ironmans perhaps member of a TT club and and stuff like that so the the requirements are going to be very different depending on what their discipline is but also obviously the experience of the rider as well um i i had ah a telephone conversation with a customer only this morning
00:24:56
Scott Hill
Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:14
Joe (CES)
And he's just gone from a road bike, done a couple of triathlons. He's just bought his first time trial bike. And he wanted a set of 88 front and rear.
00:25:26
Joe (CES)
And I was like, fastest setup. Great. Have you ever ridden a TT bike with deep section wheels before where your nose is hanging over the front of the bike and he hadn't.
00:25:38
Joe (CES)
And, you know, I try and get customers just to think about it. It'd be very easy for me to say, go for the deepest, the most expensive wheels, you'd be great. But actually, I have a conscience and I want the best thing for the customers.
00:25:49
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:25:52
Joe (CES)
I want them to have a good experience on the wheels and get the best advice to ever come back as well. So ah would say to everybody, if youre if you're unsure, ask somebody, whether it's somebody at CES or go down to your local bike shop, ask your look ask your
00:25:58
Scott Hill
yeah
00:26:10
Joe (CES)
your club coaches, get advice from people. If you're unsure about what sort of depth wheel to go for, ask for help, ask for a little bit of advice and they'll be able to give you, any of us will be able to give you kind of the best advice to to get the best setup depending on how exactly you're going to use the wheels.
00:26:19
Scott Hill
Yep.
00:26:31
Scott Hill
Yeah, it's good to see that it's someone there that's you know had a road bike, done a couple of triathlons, enjoys it, and is now starting to progress. It's really important that people realise that as ah as a sport, you don't need all the top-end kit, you know like like day dot. It's about finding your feet, enjoying the sport,
Advice on Cycling Gear and Customer Consultation
00:26:49
Scott Hill
getting into it. And if going to have a long, I'd say, career or you know passion, then you're going do the sport for for however long. But it's important that these people do test and adjust with stuff like that. you know I coach quite a few people now and are a couple of athletes that are on road bikes still, and they they've adapted, gone to clip ons this year and they haven't had them before. So they're just taking that step by step process and they're learning adapting as they go.
00:27:13
Scott Hill
And exactly what you said there, it's, it's about building everything else around it, getting used to that part, then adding that part, get used to that, then adding that part.
00:27:19
Joe (CES)
um percent
00:27:21
Scott Hill
And even as much as building the person, you know, your engine, your own ability, because all in good time we can chuck you know s may a cemento weight you on someone's bike but it might not make you faster if you're not training properly
00:27:34
Joe (CES)
100%. Yeah. No, 100%. If the depth of wheel you've got on your bike compromises your your confidence on the bike, you could have the most aerodynamic set of wheels on your bike, but it won't make you faster.
00:27:48
Joe (CES)
How you feel on the bike and your positioning and your confidence on how you ride it
00:27:49
Scott Hill
yeah yeah how often did you see
00:27:54
Joe (CES)
To large degree, that's what makes you faster.
00:27:57
Scott Hill
Yeah, yeah. How often do you see people on in races and stuff that are got the foot tri-bars, full TT bike, even road bikes tri-bars on, they're still set up. And you're like, well, you need you need to be getting down there to get the aerodynamics of that.
00:28:06
Joe (CES)
Yeah. 100%.
00:28:10
Scott Hill
So, yeah, it's...
00:28:10
Joe (CES)
hundred percent
00:28:12
Scott Hill
No, it's good.
00:28:13
Joe (CES)
100% the best, the best money a triathlete can spend and cyclist anybody rides a bike, the best money you can spend after a decent set of wheels, of course, get a decent bike fit.
00:28:13
Scott Hill
to it
00:28:27
Joe (CES)
Get you get your position dialed, get your position if you're going from a road to a tri bike. get that position dialed, get comfortable, get in the most aerodynamic position is possible. that That is the best investment for anybody going from a road to a tri bike.
00:28:44
Scott Hill
Yeah, and I guess that what it kind of leads me on to that information point about the the section deep section wheels rather than um shallow ones.
00:28:52
Joe (CES)
Hmm.
00:28:53
Scott Hill
the climate we live in, the weather we're having at the minute, it can be dangerous if you're used to it as well.
00:28:56
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:28:58
Scott Hill
So if you're fully tucked in a TT position, you're not used to riding and you get a sudden gust of wind, as we know happens, has happened, you know, you go past that gap in the hedging or the gate in the field, gust of wind, it can it can be pretty spooky sometimes.
00:28:59
Joe (CES)
You can.
00:29:13
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:29:14
Joe (CES)
I'm sure you've had a few hairy moments as have I, you know, it's yeah.
00:29:16
Scott Hill
I've had few moments, yeah. In fact, and again, you know, just touching on, ah said we were in on holiday in Lanzarote last year, ah sorry, last week, and don't know where we were driving to.
00:29:28
Scott Hill
kids were in the car and my wife was sat next to me. I was like, oh, first time I come here, I cycled down this ra this road and a bit of a practice for the Ironman because that's what I was there for. The wind was so bad, it it was actually scary.
00:29:37
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:29:40
Scott Hill
And i'm quite i thought I think I'm quite capable and competent on a bike, but that that scared me to the point where I was like, if this is what it's going to be like on the race day, I don't think I could do it.
00:29:46
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:29:52
Scott Hill
but fortunately wasn't good race but it's yeah you know the difference between wheels hence why you know we mentioned Kona earlier on not allowed to work you're not allowed to full in Kona for that for that very reason so the safety aspect is there as well so making sure that people are competent and capable to use the right wheels for the right time for them yeah
00:30:13
Joe (CES)
And it's... there's There's nothing better for me as ah as a business owner in this sector is when somebody picks up the phone before ordering a set of wheels and has a chat about it as well.
00:30:24
Scott Hill
Yeah, yeah.
00:30:24
Joe (CES)
um Because the last thing I want to do is get further down the line, i having them having sold them a set of wheels and then get a phone call saying they've had a massive crash or this the other, or even worse and injured themselves doing so.
00:30:39
Joe (CES)
you know if If they can pick up the phone, have a chat with us and we can,
00:30:42
Scott Hill
yeah
00:30:44
Joe (CES)
not necessarily personalize it, but we can we can really get to the nitty gritty of exactly what it is they want to do and what they want to achieve. And we can make recommendations based on that. And obviously, but if they if they follow that advice, that's up to them, you know, but at least it gives us the opportunity to real really get to the nitty gritty and understand the customer as well.
00:31:04
Scott Hill
and That's your job. That's your passion. You want to talk to people about wheels.
00:31:07
Joe (CES)
Yeah, yeah, i love it. My wife's sick of it.
00:31:11
Scott Hill
ether
00:31:11
Joe (CES)
but
00:31:13
Scott Hill
You're not turning them into coffee tables around the house yet, the old sets and stuff like that.
00:31:17
Joe (CES)
Not yet, not yet. I've got a couple of um solid, the rear discs that we've made into clocks. um So I've done a couple of them.
00:31:27
Joe (CES)
don't know if you're familiar with Alex Popham, the ex-Welsh rugby player, international rugby player.
00:31:33
Scott Hill
Right.
00:31:34
Joe (CES)
He's got a CES disc clock in his man cave, proudly presented on the wall.
00:31:42
Joe (CES)
Just did as a bit of thunder, ended up working out right for him. but
00:31:45
Scott Hill
Stay. No. Okay. So obviously with your wheels then, they're all going to be different weights.
00:31:53
Joe (CES)
Yep.
00:31:54
Scott Hill
Sorry. do you have a a debate? Is there a debate between people to ring you up? or they asking, I'd rather save weight or I want aerodynamics as a mixture of both? Where do we sit? what What do you feel about aerodynamics versus weight and stuff?
00:32:05
Scott Hill
Is there, I guess it's different people looking for different things as well.
00:32:08
Joe (CES)
Different people, different disciplines, triathletes, time trialists, they're very much aerodynamic driven. um Whereas I'd say more road racing wheels, they're they're designed to be a little bit more responsive, often lighter.
00:32:26
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:32:26
Joe (CES)
I would say people are hung up on the weight of bikes. um But unless you're hill climbing specialist, I don't know And, you know, I'm certainly no expert in this side of things, but I don't know whether saving 20 grams on a set of wheels really makes a huge amount of difference. Certainly somebody of my calibre, I don't know.
00:32:55
Joe (CES)
I think it's slightly different if you're at the pointy end of the race. um But I wouldn't necessarily say ah light set of wheels necessarily... wouldn't say a lighter set wheels necessarily makes you go faster.
00:33:12
Joe (CES)
Um, neither would I say the most aerodynamic wheels on the market make you go faster either. I think that's ah it's a mixture of everything. It could be, as I said earlier, it could be the rider, um, their confidence on the bike, the terrain they're riding on the weather.
00:33:30
Joe (CES)
You know, there's loads of different factors, the bike that they're riding. There's loads of different factors that come into it.
00:33:37
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:33:37
Joe (CES)
Um, but I would, but, ah pardon?
00:33:37
Scott Hill
And you produce a disc wheel as well. You produce a disc wheel as well.
00:33:42
Joe (CES)
Yeah, yeah we've um we've got our CES disc and we also do a CES.3 tri-spoke as a set, incredibly popular. They're probably becoming our most popular set as a whole, if i'm honest with you, um amongst triathletes and time trialists. Yeah.
00:34:05
Scott Hill
Is there like a
00:34:07
Scott Hill
Is there a set sort of speed, you know, athletes need to be going at to get the benefits for that? Are they just more aerodynamic? Is this the wind restrictions?
00:34:17
Scott Hill
You know, I know Tri-Spoke's a little bit around them. I'd rather Tri-Spoke anyway. i've got one, but... When it first came out, everyone was talking about crosswinds, but I generally didn't notice the difference and much difference in a crosswind, which I spoke.
00:34:26
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:34:31
Joe (CES)
No.
00:34:32
Scott Hill
and And in fact, I'd probably say it's it's probably a little bit heavier than my wheel had on it before.
00:34:38
Joe (CES)
Yeah, trispoaks tend to be a little bit heavier, depending on the trispoke you're riding. I tend to call it, i don't know if this is a term I've made up, a little bit like a sail effect.
00:34:53
Scott Hill
Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:54
Joe (CES)
And when you have got a slight um side wind, depending on what angle the the wind is hitting the wheel at, it can almost feel like you're being pulled along by the wind.
00:35:06
Scott Hill
yeah
00:35:07
Joe (CES)
So some people are dead against side winds and they're like, oh my God, yeah, they're going knock me off my bike. But if you've got the right setup, the side wind can be great to help propel you and like say, get that almost sail effect.
00:35:19
Joe (CES)
And that has been a lot of the feedback we've had from customers who have used the tri-spoke. Some racers who have never used a tri-spoke before and have gone from, say, a deep section 80, 90 mil rim to a tri-spoke, which, bearing mind, the tri-spoke is only 69 mil. So it is significantly shallower than, say, ah our 88
00:35:46
Joe (CES)
Those people have used it for the first time have been blown away at how fast and responsive it is even in windier conditions.
00:35:53
Scott Hill
and I guess you get the same same feeling from the disc wheel as well, right?
00:35:53
Joe (CES)
um
00:35:56
Scott Hill
is It can be an act of the sale, ultimately, which does make a noise.
00:35:58
Joe (CES)
Yeah, 100%. Yeah, 100%.
00:36:02
Scott Hill
Yeah. And they make a great noise.
00:36:05
Joe (CES)
ah Yeah, you can definitely you can definitely hear the person coming up behind you if they've got one.
00:36:12
Scott Hill
But it is our trispros and disc wheels always fastest.
00:36:17
Joe (CES)
No, not necessarily. No. And again, with with deep section wheels, with discs and tri-spokes, again, it's going to differ from rider to rider, but you've got to be hitting a certain speed in order to gain to get those aerodynamic gains from those wheels.
00:36:19
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:36:35
Scott Hill
Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:36
Joe (CES)
And if you're if you're not hitting those speeds, again, if you're not confident in your handling, that will affect everything with the performance of the but of the of the wheels.
00:36:48
Scott Hill
yeah
00:36:49
Joe (CES)
um I should also point out, you know, on what is best, expensive also doesn't mean faster. um we We tested our, but I,
00:37:05
Joe (CES)
We've done a bit of aero testing in in different locations. We've been out to Holland with the guys at KuCycle and done some aero testing with them. And we tested our tri-spoke against another very, very, very expensive tri-spoke from another big company.
00:37:27
Joe (CES)
And um we were four watts faster, which you look like, okay, well, four watts, so what?
00:37:30
Scott Hill
Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:34
Joe (CES)
Again, if you're looking at lots of different marginal gains, four watts with other savings and and your setup, that soon adds up.
00:37:46
Joe (CES)
But when you're talking about a tri-spoke of ours, which is what, 795 pound versus a tri-spoke, which is two and a half grand, and we're coming out faster.
00:37:58
Scott Hill
saving in watch and a saving in the bank yeah win
00:37:58
Joe (CES)
It's, it's,
00:38:01
Joe (CES)
Exactly. It's win-win. um And I think there's that whole thing of people thinking the more you spend, yeah, go it's gets's got to be better. It's very good marketing.
00:38:12
Scott Hill
yeah I guess that ties into you know mistakes that that athletes make is
00:38:13
Joe (CES)
And it's it' not just about buying a logo. Yeah.
00:38:24
Scott Hill
they buy the wrong set of wheels for them at that time, possibly. you know if they are If they're not, if you know but they've got the money, people spend money, you know and they want to look for this setup where they go for tri-spoke and disc wheel, but if they're not um strong enough on the bike to get the bike to that speed to benefit from that, then they're better than it.
00:38:41
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:38:42
Scott Hill
then sorting themselves out with ah with a ah different set of wheels that sets them up for that current time. And then developing other areas, like you mentioned, go and get the bike fit.
00:38:49
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:38:52
Scott Hill
Go and employ a coach.
00:38:53
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:38:55
Scott Hill
Work on you know other other areas where you can gain on and have a better race experience by doing that than going and spending two, three, four thousand pounds on a set of wheels that won't give you gains that you can get in other areas for a lot less money.
00:38:55
Joe (CES)
Yeah, 100%, 100%.
00:39:08
Joe (CES)
yeah hundred percent hundred percent and And you know what, like obviously I've given you an example there where we we did test faster, but I'm not gonna sit here and say we have the fastest wheels on the market, because we don't.
00:39:26
Joe (CES)
There are brands out there that have a lot more money, a lot more resources they can put into their R&D to do that.
00:39:29
Scott Hill
Yes.
00:39:37
Joe (CES)
But it all comes back to, you know, exactly what you're trying to achieve. Now, I think for some of your pro racers who are at the pointy end of the of of the field, then yeah, they've got bottomless pockets, they've got lots of backing and then great.
00:39:56
Joe (CES)
But I think it's really important for people when when looking at upgrades and the price of things now is extortionate. It's weighing up what they're spending, you know,
00:40:09
Joe (CES)
you know, I'm sure everybody would love to spend, if they had the money, three grand on a top of the range set of wheels. I guess what, what, where we come into it as well, you don't need to spend that much for a set of wheels, which are equally as fast.
00:40:27
Joe (CES)
If we can get everything, if we can get you the right set of wheels, you know,
00:40:33
Scott Hill
And then they're going to get more pleasure out of that, right? you know we're not in it for Most people are not in it for earning money. you know We're not professional athletes. um Yes, there's a potential ti there that are, but generally they're getting things for free or a fraction of the cost.
00:40:49
Scott Hill
Whereas most population of people within the sport are forking for this stuff out of their own pocket. And they've still got to live, the cost of living, everything else going up. And you know you've got families, children, you know partners, you've got your running costs of your house, your vehicles and everything else in life. So if we can get gains for a fraction of the money, then it's a win-win again, isn't it for everyone?
00:40:49
Joe (CES)
Yep.
00:41:12
Joe (CES)
exactly yeah
00:41:13
Scott Hill
That's really good. No, it's interesting and it's good to see see that that is. So obviously, i guess when you set up initially for CES Sports Limited, you were in Cardiff already.
00:41:26
Joe (CES)
Yep.
00:41:27
Scott Hill
How's the, was it, we did you start in your garage or did have a premises?
00:41:31
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:41:32
Scott Hill
Did you get to move premises over time?
00:41:35
Joe (CES)
Yeah. So we, so, um, started off in my garage. Um, I work now home-based, um, and then all of my guys, we're, we're little bit different. We don't have a, we don't have a shop.
00:41:49
Joe (CES)
Um, my team have their own workshops and we all come together periodically. Um, but we're, I suppose it's almost little bit like hybrid working.
00:42:01
Joe (CES)
um
00:42:04
Joe (CES)
But yeah, but I know like speaking to Dean Jackson at Hoob, I know it's exactly the same place he started out was in his garage and look at look at where they are now, you know?
00:42:10
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:42:13
Scott Hill
yeah Yeah, exactly. That's good.
00:42:16
Joe (CES)
um But yeah, no.
00:42:16
Scott Hill
Sorry to say it.
00:42:19
Joe (CES)
Sorry, Scott.
00:42:20
Scott Hill
Everyone would love to be working from home. um I think...
00:42:23
Joe (CES)
Oh, I know.
00:42:25
Scott Hill
Are you more inclined, though, to start like cutting grass or something because you're at home, so you end up doing all the work?
00:42:30
Joe (CES)
No, no, I'm quite disciplined. I'm quite disciplined.
00:42:32
Scott Hill
left You've left loads of chores. You need to do this and do that.
00:42:35
Joe (CES)
Well, I wouldn't say that doesn't happen. um
00:42:39
Scott Hill
No.
00:42:40
Joe (CES)
Yeah, no, quite disciplined. Like say, when when the weather gets a bit nicer, I might find myself going out on my bike a little bit more during the day, but we'll see.
00:42:47
Scott Hill
You've got the flex spaces out, why not?
00:42:49
Joe (CES)
Exactly.
00:42:50
Scott Hill
So you mentioned that you've seen the brand on TV and it's great that your family sees stuff like that.
00:42:54
Joe (CES)
Hmm.
00:42:56
Scott Hill
where can we look out for the brand when you mentioned on TV? Are we looking at you know big events, sporting events? Where are they popping up?
00:43:03
Joe (CES)
um So historically, um yeah, obviously the the big featured races, like some of the big Ironman races, you know we've got great team of athletes.
00:43:16
Joe (CES)
Previously, until she recently retired, we had Jodie Stimpson as one of our riders. And um I'm sure people will have seen her storm into victory a few years ago on the wheels.
00:43:30
Joe (CES)
um we We featured at the Paralympics with Hannah Moore in the triathlon. and And yeah, multiple multiple events over the over time. A few years ago, we re sponsored Kieran Lindars and he finished eighth at Kona on our wheels.
00:43:51
Joe (CES)
um and And yeah, with a collection of athletes that we've got now, with we're super lucky, super, super proud that, they want to work with us you know like i say you know some of these guys are world-renowned athletes you know they're they're very well known and i'm sure they could easily go out and get sponsored by some of the big guys out there so for us it's you know it's an honor for them to represent us so hopefully
00:44:24
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:44:26
Joe (CES)
If anybody's out there watching any of the pro series and Ironman races broadcast online, keep your eyes out for some of our guys. If you go on our website, you'll see all of our sponsored team, you know, the likes of Jack Hutchins, Matthew Wright, Hannah Moore, to name a few, Sam Wordley.
00:44:49
Joe (CES)
You know, we've got some great guys um on the team. and um And, yeah, Hopefully you'll see us about.
00:44:56
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:44:56
Joe (CES)
Yep.
00:44:57
Scott Hill
yeah I know and obviously I've been around the sport for a number of years now and speaking to a lot of you know brands, retailers and stuff like that.
Impact of COVID on CES
00:45:06
Scott Hill
COVID had its wealth of difficulties that it chucked into the mix.
00:45:10
Scott Hill
Did you have to struggle through that? Or did you have issues with supply chain? Did you have issues for demand from athletes still? Because i guessing people were still trying to, or they were training, because I personally was still training.
00:45:20
Joe (CES)
yep
00:45:21
Scott Hill
So did was that a sticking point like everyone else in stories I hear, or did you kind of just sail through that quite nicely?
00:45:28
Joe (CES)
No, COVID was, well, it goes without saying COVID was tough for everybody. As a business, we just about hung on while while some companies unfortunately folded, they couldn't they couldn't fight through it.
00:45:33
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:45:44
Joe (CES)
We were fortunate enough where whereby we were able to get through it. But from from the start of COVID to the end, the whole landscape of how we are working completely changed.
00:45:59
Joe (CES)
So to give you an example, when we started when I started doing this, you would buy a new fancy road bike, TT bike. More often than not, they would come with a set of factory stock wheels, usually a set of um alloy wheels on them.
00:46:20
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:46:21
Joe (CES)
very few new bikes at the time unless you were spending lots of money came with carbon wheels so for a lot of people when they bought a bike their first upgrade was a nice new set of shiny wheels so as we were going into covid you know as ah as a company our trajectory was was going up and up and up and we were we had we had big plans we were like you know this is this is great we we were going in the right direction then obviously when when covid hit races cancelled um people obviously couldn't in the early days couldn't go out on their bikes couldn't do anything
00:47:07
Joe (CES)
So straight away with loads of races being canceled and everything, no race in the calendar, people straight away, they weren't buyin they weren't buying their wheels for their races. Then what happened was obviously we know bikes new bike sales went through the roof, didn't they?
00:47:25
Joe (CES)
Everybody left right and center was buying new bikes and everybody would say to me, oh God, the amount of bike sales, you guys must be doing really well.
00:47:25
Scott Hill
Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:35
Joe (CES)
quite the opposite at that point when we got to that point new bikes were starting to be produced with carbon wheels and if you've got a brand new bike with a new set of carbon wheels you don't need another set of carbon wheels you've already got them so we we really struggled through that and whereas prior to then the new carbon wheels was the was the first upgrade for most people buying a new bike through COVID people buying a new bike is probably the last thing they needed.
00:48:09
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:48:09
Joe (CES)
And, and it took a few years, really, those people that were buying their new bikes in COVID to get to a point where right now we need to change them. Now we need to upgrade them.
00:48:21
Joe (CES)
So, so yeah, COVID was difficult, um, as a business, you know, I am proud that we managed to keep it going. Um, Unfortunately, the trajectory of the business kind of plateaued a little bit. And it's, we're getting there again, but it has definitely been a slower trajectory than than what was.
00:48:42
Scott Hill
Yeah. Would you say what's the biggest challenge for you right now then with that?
00:48:43
Joe (CES)
um
00:48:46
Scott Hill
Is it still, it's not really brand awareness within the UK. you've I think you're quite big now.
00:48:51
Joe (CES)
Yeah, we're getting there. Like I would say we're one of three big wheel companies in the UK. I think the the thing of, New bikes come with new carbon wheels on now. That is the biggest thing.
00:49:03
Joe (CES)
um
00:49:03
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:49:05
Joe (CES)
A dream where I want to see the wheels is when you buy a new bike. Say, Scott, you go and buy yourself a new TT bike. My dream is you pick up and wheel that bike out of the shop with a set of our wheels already on it.
00:49:18
Joe (CES)
That's kind of where I want to get to.
00:49:18
Scott Hill
Yeah. Yeah. yeah
00:49:21
Joe (CES)
There's some great British bike brands. I would love to see some sort of collaboration between us and them, really British s bikes with British wheels. I think that'd be great.
00:49:34
Joe (CES)
so So, yeah, so that's that's kind of what I would like to do. But I'd say that's the biggest challenge is the fact that still, you know, even more so than ever, the competition for wheels now as well is is bigger than ever.
00:49:48
Joe (CES)
There's so many different brands of wheels.
00:49:51
Scott Hill
up that That's something I think is quite good as well. as you know You mentioned there about British brands working together. I think that's really important you know for someone who's, you know I mean the RAF, as I've mentioned it earlier on and obviously in other podcasts and stuff.
Future Prospects for CES Wheels
00:50:06
Scott Hill
I've been doing that a long time. I'm quite patriotic about our country and I think that it's important that we do support our own and and stuff like that is is actually a fantastic idea and hope i'm well i'm hopeful like that that does come to fruition for you because i think it's um it's a nice touch to the british brand support each other and something like that would be pretty good
00:50:25
Joe (CES)
yeah definitely no we work very closely with the guys over easy games um so tim butcher who runs easy games we work quite closely with them we partner up and you know
00:50:30
Scott Hill
yeah
00:50:38
Joe (CES)
that's great having two British brands working together for the same aim. Um, you know, it'd be great to see where, where we can work with some other brands as well.
00:50:43
Scott Hill
Or
00:50:47
Joe (CES)
So if there's any outlaw,
00:50:48
Scott Hill
maybe I'll get him on the podcast next.
00:50:52
Joe (CES)
Clint would, he'd be definitely would.
00:50:53
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:50:53
Joe (CES)
He's a man of the moment at the minute. He was, um, he did a, he did a feature in bike biz the other day.
00:50:55
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:50:59
Joe (CES)
Um, yeah, definitely. I can, I can get you in touch with Clint. I'm sure he'd jump at the chance.
00:51:04
Scott Hill
I will do that. would be great. Obviously, with you being a UK brand then, and we've obviously, with Brexit. um
00:51:14
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:51:15
Scott Hill
It's struggled to get things into the UK. I guess, do you struggle? Is there an issue with getting things out of the UK?
00:51:21
Joe (CES)
um Yes. So we we yeah we don't have a problem getting products in. That's fine. Getting them out, that has become harder. Pre-Brexit, we were selling quite a lot of wheels to Southern Ireland and mainland Europe.
00:51:40
Joe (CES)
um That has declined purely due to the irregularities with import tax. I think there's still so many questions about, you know, just there's no standard price ever.
00:51:48
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:51:54
Joe (CES)
You know, I could send five separate boxes of wheels to Ireland. And I think every single one would receive a different import charge. It's ridiculous.
00:52:04
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:52:05
Joe (CES)
And that goes for, you know, anywhere in Europe, France, you know, we used to sell quite a lot of wheels to Scandinavia.
00:52:05
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:52:13
Joe (CES)
But that's that's come down quite a lot as well, purely because the import charge is associated now. And obviously a box of wheels, it's not it's not a small box. It's quite substantial.
00:52:25
Joe (CES)
um And that has put people off, unfortunately.
00:52:26
Scott Hill
Yeah. had it i bought I bought a helmet off a website that's well known thinking I got myself a bit of a bargain. When it arrived, there's your import tax as well. And it was a lot more than what it would have been if I purchased it off a store in the UK.
00:52:45
Scott Hill
it caught me out but yeah I had to pay it at the time.
00:52:47
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:52:48
Scott Hill
um I've so still got the helmet, I absolutely love it but um yeah it was a bit of a shock to the system. So it's always being aware, even when you look online at websites that say.co.uk, just bear in mind that it might not be coming from the UK and stuff like that.
00:53:04
Scott Hill
i think it's quite important that people are aware of where the product is coming from and they don't sting themselves with an import tax.
00:53:10
Joe (CES)
hundred percent Yeah. 100%. Yeah, 100%. And like we we would love to do a little bit more in the US as well. we've got But with the new challenge now with the tariffs with the US as well.
00:53:22
Scott Hill
ye
00:53:22
Joe (CES)
So yeah, whenever we get over one challenge, there's always another one on the horizon.
00:53:28
Scott Hill
I'm not convinced M. Taris is going to last. He's going to get himself in a bit of a hole.
00:53:30
Joe (CES)
No, I don't think they will either. I don't think they will.
00:53:34
Scott Hill
No.
00:53:34
Joe (CES)
Here's hoping.
00:53:34
Scott Hill
Where you see the future of CES Wheels with tech? Is there anything you've got in the pipeline? You're looking at developing new products?
00:53:43
Joe (CES)
um Not really. There's a few different um there's a few different moulds and technologies which we're currently looking at. A few different designs um which we're looking at, which we want to put through put through their paces with regards to some aero testing.
00:54:03
Joe (CES)
like We mentioned tri-spokes.
00:54:03
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:54:06
Joe (CES)
There's the potential of us to look at five-spoke wheels as well. There's um potential to look at different yeah ah rear wheel design.
00:54:18
Joe (CES)
I'm not sure if you've seen that, um you know, when disc wheels were banned, well, are banned in Kona, but then Sam Laidlow came with one of those head wheels, which I want to say is is something ridiculous, like 120 deep or something like that.
00:54:37
Scott Hill
Yeah. Yeah.
00:54:39
Joe (CES)
so So although it's not new technology, it's new to us. And there might potentially be some some work to look at, initially to look at the numbers to see what they're like comparably to a disk and vice versa. So we're always on the lookout for new ideas and and different ways of doing things.
00:55:02
Joe (CES)
um
00:55:02
Scott Hill
and everyone's going Everyone's going wider tyres now. more and more people.
00:55:06
Joe (CES)
Wider ties, yeah.
00:55:07
Scott Hill
Not everyone's gone tubeless, but more more people are. deaf People are definitely changing, I think, from butyl rubber inner tubes are almost gone.
00:55:17
Scott Hill
still They're still even more than.
00:55:17
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:55:18
Scott Hill
More people are buying TPU or the ah latex ones.
00:55:21
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:55:23
Scott Hill
But I think TPU are getting more and more popular.
00:55:23
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:55:25
Scott Hill
um i'm I'm not converted to tubeless on all of my bikes yet.
00:55:30
Joe (CES)
All right. Okay.
00:55:32
Scott Hill
I just, I can't be doing with a mess. um
00:55:35
Joe (CES)
That's what I said in the first instance. That's what I used to say.
00:55:37
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:55:38
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:55:39
Scott Hill
But I'm, I, I have got it on a couple of now tubeless and it's, it's, it's fine to be that way, but um yeah, we'll see.
00:55:44
Joe (CES)
yeah
00:55:46
Joe (CES)
amazing what it does for your confidence when you can set up a wheel without any mess going anywhere.
00:55:46
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:55:51
Joe (CES)
And it's like, ah, this isn't actually that bad.
00:55:51
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:55:55
Scott Hill
Yeah. yeah why I actually went to go on a ride couple of nights ago. I got back from work a little bit early. It's bit daylight still the right road to dry. I thought right. going to pump that wheels up and get outside and, uh, for whatever reason, one of them was flat and pull pump up.
00:56:05
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:56:08
Scott Hill
So I need to, I, so I, so I was kicked off.
00:56:10
Joe (CES)
It's always the way, isn't it?
00:56:12
Scott Hill
Yeah. Get off on the turbo. So I'm just losing time. And I did my session on the turbo and now I need to rectify that wheel to, to sort that out for, for tomorrow.
00:56:19
Joe (CES)
Yeah.
00:56:20
Scott Hill
Cause I'm hoping to can i tomorrow for a little bit.
00:56:22
Joe (CES)
my My thing when I go out a bike, usually it's the fact that I haven't checked the batteries on my SRAM derailleurs and everything the night before.
00:56:23
Scott Hill
Um,
00:56:28
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:56:30
Joe (CES)
So I get about a mile up the road and I realize I've got no charge or anything and I'm stuck in but stuck in a single gear.
00:56:30
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:56:36
Joe (CES)
That's usually my downfall is checking batteries.
00:56:36
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:56:39
Scott Hill
So are your wheels, are they now on disc brakes or your rim brakes? Yeah.
00:56:45
Joe (CES)
Price- bit of both yeah we offer both I think it's you know it's obvious the market is going towards this breaks, I don't think there's many.
00:56:48
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:56:53
Joe (CES)
David Price- The traditional manufacturers is still making rim break frames.
00:56:58
Scott Hill
andt I think giant was the last brand.
00:56:58
Joe (CES)
David Price- yeah yeah.
00:57:00
Scott Hill
I'm pretty sure they're where they are now. if They've gone to this. Um, sure they were the last one. And I, I heard that the only reason i don't know how true this is the only reason they didn't, but it was because for them to design, especially the time trial bike around disc brakes, they couldn't quite get the performance benefits better than the old bike.
00:57:18
Joe (CES)
Yep.
00:57:20
Scott Hill
I think it took, that's I heard. It took them a long time to do that. Um, but yeah, it's,
00:57:24
Joe (CES)
Okay. Yeah. but no no we were but I know some of our competitors, you go on their websites now, they they don't really have any rim brake wheels at all now.
00:57:32
Scott Hill
Yeah. Yeah.
00:57:34
Joe (CES)
i'm like I'm not having any of that. We've got the full offering of rim brake wheels, the same depth as what we do there at our disc brake. There's loads of great rim brake bikes out there.
00:57:46
Joe (CES)
um My time trial bikes are rim brake, you know, at my Canyon and yeah, no, there's you know, I'm, I'm um well up for saving the rim brake.
00:57:58
Joe (CES)
I don't think it should go anywhere, but you know, it is.
00:58:00
Scott Hill
if you're a touch for time trials you're on a dual carriage where you don't stop for anything do you round about it back you come
00:58:01
Joe (CES)
it
00:58:05
Joe (CES)
No, exactly. You don't need brakes. So it's fine. Yeah.
00:58:10
Joe (CES)
yeah
00:58:11
Scott Hill
Yeah, hopefully. No, that's great. um So what do you reckon? So I think the most, I've taken her from this, the most overrated thing at the minute with with probably what we're seeing is people overreaching too early and thinking they need to spend all this money and have the tri-spoke and the disc wheel when potentially they might not need to. So i think that's quite a common theme and that's come up a couple of times that we think people need to need to speak to the specialist like yourselves, see what you do, see it see how you can get the best for them.
00:58:41
Scott Hill
So if someone is looking for CES wheels, how can they find you?
00:58:47
Joe (CES)
Well, you can look us up online. Our website is www.ces-sport.co.uk. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, um X, X,
00:59:00
Joe (CES)
and And yeah, get in touch with us, have a look at what we've got. And as you said, I think the big messages and something I learned 10 years ago, you don't need to spend ah ridiculous amount of money sort of two, three grand on a decent set of wheels.
00:59:17
Joe (CES)
You don't need to do it.
00:59:18
Scott Hill
Yeah.
00:59:19
Joe (CES)
um That's why we're here, you know, to help you guys get on a decent set of wheels. where We've proven that we've got decent wheels. We've got good, strong, reliable wheels.
00:59:32
Joe (CES)
um Built, designed, made, like yourselves, you know, cyclists, triathletes, um cycling enthusiasts.
00:59:45
Joe (CES)
so So, yeah.
00:59:47
Scott Hill
Great. So, no, thanks very much for your time, Joe, today. We'll make sure that stuff gets...
00:59:52
Joe (CES)
Enjoyed it. It's been good fun.
00:59:53
Scott Hill
but onto our social media. You mentioned earlier on as well that you're looking for ambassador in the gravel world. So if there's anyone out there that is gravel world, look on your website and get in touch and talk to a bit more about that.
00:59:59
Joe (CES)
We are indeed.
01:00:05
Scott Hill
And anyone looking for wheels across an array of bikes, be it gravel, mountain bike, time trial, triathlon. If you've got any questions at all, then reach out to CES Wheel, speak to Joe and his team and and they'll be glad that to help you.
01:00:18
Scott Hill
But no, thanks very much, Joe. And hopefully we'll have you back again in the future. And we can...
01:00:24
Joe (CES)
Yeah, I'd love to. No, I've really enjoyed it. Thanks thanks so much for having me, Scott. And um yeah, I'd be more than happy to come back again. was great, great fun.
01:00:31
Scott Hill
Thank you very much for your time. I'll speak to you soon, Joe.
01:00:34
Joe (CES)
Cheers, mate. Bye.