Transcript
Speaker: I knew fairly early that I wanted to be around money. I see that all the time with our clients that no matter how many zeros they have in their net worth, it's it's literally the same conversation around fear. All along the way, there's always this concern of,
Speaker: Is it enough? Do I have enough? Is it going to be enough? I think that's part of where I see myself as a financial planner really in in the next 20 years is leaning more into ah the the side of, okay, you just had this liquidity event. You just had this big thing that happened. You thought it was going to solve all your problems. It solved some of them, but you're just as empty, maybe more empty than than you were before that happened. Why? Why?
Speaker: Welcome to Unstuck and Alive. I'm Todd Pinkston. And I'm Steven Nooner. We have watched it happen. Fear gives way to faith. Isolation melt into belonging.
Speaker: The stuck places break open and life begins to flow again. On this show, we sit around the fire, so to speak, and listen to the real stories of everyday heroes.
Speaker: men and women who have found freedom and stepped into the unforced purpose they were made for. If you're tired of striving, if you're longing to breathe deep, break free and come alive again, then you're in the right spot. This is Unstuck and Alive.
Speaker: Let's go.
Speaker: and this episode, we have a conversation with Josh Self, who's a financial planner by trade. but gets to his late 30s and while everything was going right on the outside, knew something just wasn't right on the inside.
Speaker: So he courageously pulls back the curtain on his life and shares the wisdom he's learned from diving beneath the surface to ask the hard questions and do the work. He tells stories about the adventures, his podcast, and gives some financial advice. It's a great conversation. You don't want to miss it. Josh Self. Financial advisor, financial planner by Trade and Training. Actually,
Speaker: Back in college, I went to school at University North Carolina, Chapel Hill. I got a business degree. I knew fairly early that I wanted to be around money. And and not from a, you know, if I'm totally honest, like don't probably some materialism, greed, ah hope for more.
Speaker: um But also from a standpoint of being able to help people make wise decisions in a way that would have a ripple effect on their lives and generations after them. That's that's the part of my job that like, if I'm doing it well, I've that checked that box, but that's, that's the exciting part.
Speaker: And, um, So fast forward a couple of decades of trying to survive in a very difficult business and grow a business. um I kind of got bored and I had a couple things that occurred, ah probably several things that occurred in my life personally that um it was just like, what am I doing? You know,
Speaker: I guess looking back, you could call it, it wasn't really a midlife crisis. It was a, just an awakening to, what, so what i see in peers now happen all the time of, um, I thought this was going to be different.
Speaker: And, you know, I i started 20 years earlier knowing that that was like a thing out there. ah Most of my clients have always been a good 15 to 20 years older than me. So I've always kind of had a um a line of sight on that and yet still got there and went, oh, man, this is not not what I thought. And Um, what am I, if I'm not a financial planner and if I don't do this, you know, if I'm, um, didn't have these things going on. And so long, let me shorten that a little bit. Around that time, I hired a business coach, never had a business coach before.
Speaker: And um I still to this day, I met with him yesterday. i mean, I don't know. he will, I think, be an integral part of my business team for as long as he's willing to do it. But um he he prompted this idea of, well, maybe could do a podcast. I'm like, I don't know anything about podcasts. i I definitely don't want to do a podcast about money. I talk about that all day long and there's a million of them already.
Speaker: That would be like, you know, I'm done if that's the if that's where we're going. He's like, well, what do you like talking about? like Well, i like I love talking to my my friends about some of the adventures they go on. He's like, well, what about a podcast about that?
Speaker: And so it it was really... a very slow process um and and really started as kind of a ah a hobby. I needed a hobby. I needed something else to do that was interesting and and compelling. And I started by interviewing a couple of friends. Then I interviewed some clients that had some really cool stories.
Speaker: And then I started getting introduced from by those people to other people. And that's when it started, ri ah the ripple effect really started. And I've interviewed at this point, um I think I'm around 80 episodes, which is not a ton, but 80 people that I probably never would have met before um from places all around the globe. Yeah.
Speaker: that have some of really the most compelling stories I've ever heard that have encouraged me to get out and live my great life right now and push myself and find my limits and, and learn about what, um, you know, God has designed me to do and what else is out there, that the human is, is capable of doing.
Speaker: um And so these stories continue to um compel that in me. But I think as I've gotten feedback from other people that listen, it's it's many of those same things. And I think, Todd, why our conversation was compelling is because what you guys are doing and and with the business and the podcast is very much, you know, a companion to to that same storyline. But what I've started doing is, um as I've done this more over several years, is now it's bleeding back into my business.
Speaker: um And i've I rebranded the the company, renamed it, um new logo, different website. And in fact, just had a ah call with a prospect that found us online today. And um this morning he said, you know, I found you online, but then I went to your website and your website screams outdoor enthusiast. And then I listened to your podcast and like, these are great conversations. And I've, I've always said, if we do this, we may not get a ton of, um, business from it, but the people that do show up through that are going to be my kind of people.
Speaker: And i think this guy today, I don't know what, what'll come of it, but it it kind of has played out that way. But the people I get to talk to about adventure, are my kind of people too. I say it over and over again. It's like same cloth, just different part of the the world.
Speaker: And, um, and people are painting this adventure, um on different canvases. The, the paint looks different, but it's the same kind of art. And so it's not a very clear distinction about what I'm also doing with these conversations, at least trying to be intentional about is not looking for the adrenaline story, because again, there's plenty of,
Speaker: adventure podcasts or conversations about all the crazy cool things that people are doing and dying and hurting themselves. Like those are kind of cool, but I want to get beyond that to what drives somebody to look at what they perceived as a limit, a human limit and push themselves further. And then what do they find on the other side of that about, I didn't know that about myself or what did I learn about my, you know, my higher power that I didn't know before kind of having this experience or about human, uh, humans in general, human, um, the human population. So those,
Speaker: kinds of feedback about the why behind adventure and the learning that comes from pursuing hard things and choosing suffering and pain and, and sometimes danger.
Speaker: um Those are the the stories that are super compelling to me. And, and I, I think have really created a fabric with our, our podcast that um three or four years ago when I started, it I had no idea it would turn into this. It's been really cool to watch.
Speaker: So awesome. And so Josh, dot dive deeper into that. The um yeah, like what are what are people discovering? And then you too, like you've run a you know, you've done a half marathon and and you're training for other other adventures.
Speaker: yeah I think for me, that was part of, you know, when Bill invited me to do the 100K, my first thought was like, no. No, but no interest. ah And, you know, there were two things that made me sign up. One, the fear, like the fear of failure. How many times do we step into something where failure is I'd call it a 50 50 like I'm a month out and I'd say 50 percent. I will not finish the race or finish under the time cap.
Speaker: But the other thing he told me is he said, It's the closest thing for him to a way forward trip that's not a way forward trip because of what it does spiritually on the inside when you break past this this barrier. And it's not, I mean, it's ah obviously it's invisible. So what what are you learning as people are telling their stories that continues to, you know, intrigue you? And what do you learn about yourself?
Speaker: I think part of it, and I had a ah series of interviews at the end of last year where i sought out um spiritual leaders of different faith backgrounds to ask a very similar question about um how pain and suffering specifically, but, you know, pursuing hard things, uh, how that plays out in different faith traditions. So a couple Presbyterian pastors, um, uh, a doctor who was, um, uh, Muslim by, ah
Speaker: You know, culturally, what he grew up with, and then a ah Catholic bishop um and a lot of similar threads through that of um when we get to what we thought was our end, you know, the the limit, I just can't do then did it.
Speaker: but then i did it um And not only did I do it, I had a great time in spite of the the the pain that I put myself through.
Speaker: um Many times it's a couple of things. Some of it is the community. So i interviewed a gal probably a couple of years ago.
Speaker: who after losing, um a hundred pounds, she has now gotten into, um these ultra races over and over again. And when I say that she's probably doing one or two a month yeah of, uh, 50 to a hundred miles. Some of them too. There's one called the Vol State, um, uh, ultra endurance. It's like,
Speaker: I think it's about 250 miles from Kentucky to Georgia in August or July. i mean, something ridiculous. She's not running it. She's she's usually walking it.
Speaker: But the reason she told me she keeps going back is because she has built a community of like-minded people that she doesn't get anywhere else. It's kind of that that ah mentality that I was saying, you cut from the same cloth. and And I kind of hear that in some of your trips that you've talked about also is people opening up on yeah trail when when there are witnesses that you can trust and that are surrounding you. um it It unlocks a door that isn't there in in normal life.
Speaker: And I think, and I've had several guests say this as well, that when you when you couple the... the the community, the people that you you learn to know and trust with the fact that we're doing this really hard thing side by side. I think that's the real unlock.
Speaker: um Crazy things happen with connections and and what people want to talk about. And even some of the long runs that that I do on the weekends, the stuff that me and my buddies come back and that we've talked about, it's like, man, we we were all over the place.
Speaker: Um, and some of it meaningful, some of it just, you know, basic life things and other, other parts of it, just stupid. But yeah at the, at the end, it builds this, um, connection that, uh, you know, we, we hear it in all kinds of different places.
Speaker: We're, we're really, there's something deep within us that's drawing, ah each of us to, to want that, to have that and to find it in in a way that's really meaningful. And I say that as as someone that is a very committed introvert um that I don't typically ah search out a bunch of friends or a bunch of acquaintances or a bunch of anything that's super social.
Speaker: um You know, it's with interesting that i have a job where I have to interact with people all all day. um But that that's part of part of the persona that I play. But when I take that mask off at the end of the day,
Speaker: I don't want to go be around ah and a group ah of people that chit chat with. But if I'm hiking or backpacking or or running a really long distance in the woods with somebody, um those are connections that...
Speaker: are very, very meaningful to to my life. And that, again, as a very committed introvert, I want more of that. I want more of those kind of significant things. And so that's one that's the the human connection and and the deep, profound um ah conversations that can come from that. And I think the other side, and I hear this a lot, um,
Speaker: from people that do very, very difficult things, um, it expands their understanding of God, higher power universe. And I hear it all. Like I don't, um, my podcast is not ah a, um,
Speaker: really doesn't have a filter for, I want to talk to everybody at all places. And it it creates some pretty pretty wild conversations at times. um But almost, i mean, I can't say everybody, but many, many times the conversations get to Well, once I started hallucinating or once I, you know, was throwing up everything that I was putting in my body or I twisted my ankle and I didn't think I could go any any further, it it opens up a part of and their understanding of who God is and their connection with that higher power and what that means for their life right now, you know, as being held in this moment.
Speaker: But that also, they take that with them after the the the thing is over. um And it's it's hard to find that in our comfortable, modern lifestyle. um you can't You can. I'm sure people do regularly.
Speaker: But it seems to happen quite often with people. these everyday explorers, adventurers that are going out and, and, um, pushing themselves, uh, really hard. And I, um, I interviewed, um, this guy couple years ago that has become a a good friend that he's a mountain guide, out in the state of Washington, but he's also a trained, um psychologist. Um,
Speaker: So very interesting combo. And a lot of what he does is working with mostly middle-aged men that hit this very similar point that I did several years ago, but using the wilderness and hard climbing or hiking um as as a way to unlock the potential of what that man's cap capabilities are. And in in using that um outdoor space as a self-discovery, ah a place for self-discovery so that they can go home and and be different. I think, Todd, you were telling me previously, too, you've had people wives come back.
Speaker: to tell you how different their husband is after having that wilderness experience. Um, and I don't think that's unique with your group. I don't think it's unique with this guy, Matt Walker's group. Um, there's something again, I think like deep within all of us, it's calling for this, um, this experience to, to,
Speaker: be outdoors to being something that is so much larger than, um at least my experience, I get, I get into high places in mountains or wide open spots and my brain literally has a difficult time understanding just how small of a speck I am. Um, but that humility, like I, I need that in my life. And, um,
Speaker: So I think that those, the, the, the companionship and, and community is, is one thing that comes up a lot, but also, um this, uh, touching and expanding the understanding of who God is and, um,
Speaker: the fact that the wilderness and big open spaces can do that. I don't quite understand why, but I hear it happening all the the time over and over again. And then you look back through, you know, the history of mankind and whether it's desert desert fathers and mothers or early early humans, like the wilderness has always been a major part of um the the human story. And um it just looks a little different for us right now.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure. so So let's zoom back of like that. That's what you're that's what you're passionate about working on right now. And it's and it's striking a chord inside of you.
Speaker: How, you know, throughout your formation, you know, from a kid, to you know, growing up to going to school and and ended up where you are. Like, who are you? You know, how have you been shaped throughout life to get you to to a place now where that's something that's been inside of you? You know, it's a it's a question that you've been wrestling with for a long time. ah who is? Josh Self.
Speaker: Yeah. um I don't know. When you figure it out, let me know. um I mean, I know he plays a guitar. I see ah a folded up American flag. I was going to say, hey, tell me about the stuff that's in your office. Like metals on the wall, the flag.
Speaker: So I can maybe use some of that as, um, as part of what i I'll say, but, um, my, I was actually born in Huntington, West Virginia. Not too many people can say that.
Speaker: Um, it, we did not stay around there for very long. My my mom's side of family was from very poor, um Ohio river towns, um, kind of right along the Ohio, West Virginia border.
Speaker: um And growing up, we moved to about every two or three years. I think I always forget this, but I think I i counted at one point, I think I went to nine different schools from kindergarten to 12th grade, yeah um which was hard. You know, ah I remember growing up.
Speaker: And every time the conversation would come up, it's like, you got to be kidding me again. i just like just got an introvert. Yeah, right. Well, how much of that was nature and and how much was nurtured into me? I don't know. But um it made going to college really easy.
Speaker: But what it also made um very easy is I got really good at reading a room, even to this day. Like I can, within a split second, read a room, figure out who the cool kids are, and then figure out how to act like them.
Speaker: that was That was my way of ah fitting in. And, um fast forward, you know, I'm going to skip a bunch and then come back, but getting into my twenties and thirties, I still was doing that.
Speaker: I still was doing the reading and pretending in order to fit into the cool crowd, um, whatever, whatever that meant. But I think part of what happened in my mid to late thirties was I realized like, I have no idea who I am. I've, I've done all this work to be to to fit this um this role that I thought I wanted to to fit, you know, either as a a business person or a husband or a friend. And I'm not sure how much of that is like really me.
Speaker: and um So what I will also happened grow um growing up is I love playing baseball. I played baseball um as as much as I could. um i was never really good, but I had a a strong enough arm that I could, you know, make some different teams and, know,
Speaker: 15 years old, I took a ground ball in the mouth and rearranged all my teeth, even like three or four of the teeth I have now are not real because of that injury. And, um, that was, I haven't really thought about it until more recently, but as a kid that is working really hard to fit in, um to lose, you know, to be really disfigured in, in what people see,
Speaker: um I was pretty scared about what that would um what that would mean. It didn't really mean anything. like I didn't lose friends because of it. and um yeah i eventually went back and and played baseball. I never played third base again.
Speaker: or But to give you an idea how smart I am, i i moved to the only position closer to home plate than third base, which I became a pitcher. Interesting. and did that for several years um through high school and and then played um on the club baseball team at UNC, which um was still ah very competitive, but it was the most fun I ever had ah playing the sport.
Speaker: And, um and then I got to coach my son for several years as he was growing up and I, I can't get enough baseball. Like I, I could be a junkie with it, but,
Speaker: That was um ah big part of my identity also. No matter what city we landed in, i was going to be a baseball player. And as you guys know, everybody that plays a sport, it ends someday. it just someday, for some people, it's a little sooner than others. And and mine was somewhere around college time. And in um um so and I mentioned this earlier. I knew I wanted to...
Speaker: um, be around money and, and, and particularly advice, uh, around money. And so I got a business degree. I, um, started working really more in the insurance industry, but I knew I wanted to be a CFP. And so, um within a couple of years, I was one of the youngest CFPs in in the country because like I had this single minded pursuit, uh, that that's what I wanted to, uh, to do. um But the things that I lost as I was pursuing that was I always loved camping. There were a few times growing up that we went camping.
Speaker: um one of the One of the times was we lived in High Point, North Carolina, one of the low locations. And High Point has a world famous furniture market twice a year where people come in from all over the world And we would rent our house out and go live in a camper that we had at the local, um, we parents would take it out to the campground and for two weeks we'd live out of the camper.
Speaker: Um, and, and a few times we, we took the camper up into like, uh, pipe stem state park in West Virginia, um different places. And I always, I love the, the out being outside.
Speaker: Um, I remember being at a, um, uh, I think it was like, Boy Scouts. I didn't do boy Scouts for very long, but I think it was at Camp Cheerio in North Carolina.
Speaker: um And I remember standing out in the middle of this field looking up and there was a hawk just circling. Beautiful morning, clear sky, kind of cold and um just being amazed at watching this hawk. And I but the more I pursued baseball, the more I pursued school and, uh, professional life that there was not time for that. There was not time for, um anything extra. I got married pretty early. We started having kids pretty early. Responsibilities started stacking up.
Speaker: And, um, you know, that was my reasoning is there, there just isn't time. And, um, Slowly, ahve I've been working that back into something that is part of my rhythm. You know, it's a one or two backpacking trips a year. um Some of it I've done with my kids. that That makes it easier to get out there and Certainly something I want them to, um I would love, I can't make them do anything, let alone fall in love with the outdoors. But that that's something I really hope for them that um they can feel comfortable enough with being outside and pursuing hard things outside because of all the things that I've mentioned already that can unlock in in somebody's life as they they get older. Josh?
Speaker: Josh? Yeah, if I could, um just to just to drill in a little bit there, if I could not. Sorry. um If you were to look back and just kind of.
Speaker: Would you do you feel like you drifted away from those things? Like so you you said you didn' you weren't even sure if and I'm paraphrasing that, you know, like some of the things you're involved with, like, it was was that even me? Right. Like, it was it was it more of a drift or ah and then ah And then just like a drift back once you had the awakening or or was it, is there a moment where like that became clear that that there's something that has to change here?
Speaker: No, I don't, I think it was probably a drift. I don't think there's there's no moment that was earth shattering one way or the other. um um i think it was choice after choice of going, you you know, I want to spend all my extra time playing baseball or I want to um go pursue a professional life. and And that's going to take, you know, 12 to 15 hours a day. it was It was the stacking of many of those decisions ah over time. And there were there were moments, I think, back where i think part of me was trying to say, no, no, no, think of think of
Speaker: what, ah what if you did this? i'm like, I can't do that. That's, you know, like go work on a dude ranch, uh, for a summer. um I, I gotta, I need to have an internship. I need to, you know, those, those kinds of micro decisions, um, uh, you know, I don't look at that as right or wrong. It's just the decisions that I made along the way.
Speaker: They did have an end. Um, and, and thankfully I, I, was, it got to a point where I could work through the, where that got me and go, okay, now in my late thirties, early forties, I can do, I can do things a little bit differently. I have, um, the flexibility, I have some resources, i have, um, uh, a wife that's supportive of this and, and start trying to, um,
Speaker: add some of these things back that are much more in line with, uh, who I am. And then talking to people on the adventure podcast, it's like, that's the regular kick in the butt that I need to keep going.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, and I guess just, I'm curious, like another, and I'm not trying to look for the, the, you know, Matt, the magic moment that, you know, breakthrough, as you said, adrenaline story or whatever, like, wow.
Speaker: Um, I guess I'm just curious though, like, um, if you learned anything from it in a sense of like, it what like if it was drift and then you made different choices, to drift back, is there other signals you look for personally in your life? Like things that show up and like um that someone that's just listening this can be like, oh man, like, you know, um these are ways I can know that I'm can drift and maybe, maybe i I don't want to compound these choices too far off. I want to drift back the other way. Just, I'm curious there's any learned wisdom from that. I think um for for me, the way that the, um even now, like when when I'm getting um bent sideways or or starting to come off the rails, um the way that shows up is a very, very,
Speaker: you know It's a subconscious focus, but it's a focus around control of um things that are outside of me, but also a hyper control over me, like the disciplines or routines and things.
Speaker: What I have learned about myself is that that control feature is a subconscious effort to try to make myself feel better ah with the chaos that's happening around me rather than what what I'm now trying to see and and have learned through this whole process is accepting the chaos for what it is, it's there, lean into um the the discomfort of that. And um that, you know, one of the, there's a lot of emotional intelligence things that in my forties, I've ah even still to say, I'm like, I am an absolute infant.
Speaker: And why did somebody not teach me this? years like i could have saved a lot of suffering um and relationship hardships and bad decisions if if I had had some more emotional intelligence early on. But in lieu of that, what I replaced with with not having that was um ah a a very strong discipline to get things done.
Speaker: And whether that's because I'm a first child or the the reason doesn't really matter. But when something needed to be done, I raised my hand, I did it. um It didn't matter how many things I had going on.
Speaker: um I said yes to everything but because part of that feedback it was um making me feel better also. is And so I think that's another piece of it too is if I'm If I'm saying yes to everything that shows up and I have this hypersense of control and discipline ah around everything and everybody that is around me, those are really like big signals to say, okay, time to take a timeout.
Speaker: And um I've given my wife total permission. She sees it way before I do. um As my wife usually does too. Yeah. and And so that's been a huge help to me though for, because it's, it is such a blind spot.
Speaker: Um, but that, um, that fear failure and saying yes to everything and, and having to control everything, um, keeps it, it, it keeps me away from really fully living alive in the moment. And,
Speaker: um I get I get more sparks of that now of of being fully alive, regardless of the chaos that that's happening. But that's that's also like an old friend that keeps showing up, you know, and um now I have a little more awareness around, oh, the old friend's back.
Speaker: um that usually doesn't go very well. So what tools do I have in a toolbox to, um, to, help get through this and, um, the outdoors and, and, um, sweating and, pushing hard that has been, i can't say it's the only tool I have that sure that would not be true, but that's been a big part about a, um,
Speaker: a new rhythm that I have to have, uh, in my life for, for the most part. okay Okay. What did, what did look like in, you know, you said kind of like late thirties was when you started feeling, ah you know wondering who am i ah you know looking back and seeing I have been what the situation required of me for so long.
Speaker: And I'm good at that. And you know you found yourself in a place where you know you're you're great at helping people manage their money, which means that it provides ah you know a solid income for you. You've got a great business. Uh, what did, what did that look like? Not just going, Hey, I need to be outdoors, but like, what did, did did you start meeting with somebody? What did it look like for you to kind of pull off the blinders, uh, look beneath the surface and, and realize like, what's really going on here? Uh, so I can become the man I've been designed to be not just the man that, uh, every situation requires of me to be.
Speaker: Yeah, that's, um, a very pointed question. I think the, um, For somebody that is hyper-indexed on control and and also kind of um how people perceive me, like that was always, again, back to moving every two or three years, I needed to know that. That was part of the the feedback of, am I doing this right? there There was never an internal compass of, am I doing it right? Right.
Speaker: Um, so, getting to a point of saying, i need some help and, um, being willing to, um to, to seek out a therapist and to meet with that therapist regularly. um I did not come from a background where that was normal or, um, acceptable even like there were, there were words for people that, uh, needed to go to a therapist. And i think I had all that playing it, uh, subconsciously, uh, in the back of my head, but, um, the, now having, um,
Speaker: been in therapy, uh, a lot has completely changed, um, the trajectory. And, and I look back on, um, the first therapist that, that I worked with is, I mean, he will forever be somebody that was like that one of those mile markers in my life that just seemingly accidentally happened. Um, even the way I found him was completely accidental.
Speaker: Um, ah theoretically, accidentally, but very well, ah part of what I see is the design of the trajectory of my life now.
Speaker: um So that's part of it. Part of it is um through those years, I was encouraged as this did not come naturally from me, but I was encouraged to find one or two guys that were my good friends and and to be honest with them about really what was happening.
Speaker: You know, um, there's a guy i love reading Arthur Brooks and he talks about, especially for people that are around business quite a bit there, there are deal friends and then there are real friends.
Speaker: And I was really good at accumulating deal friends and making them look like real friends. And so I picked one or two guys, actually two guys, um,
Speaker: that I was going to start telling them exactly what I was struggling with relationally, um personally. ah And um that was a game changer. ah Also, not easy. i very much stumbled my way through it and it was very uncomfortable. And now those relationships with those two guys are are completely different than than it was.
Speaker: and And they've kind of reciprocated that. And at different times they've – in the last five or six years, they've gone through moments where they have come back to me and go, I got to tell you what's going on. And um that's been – a a very, um, rich outcome that again, as an introvert, I would not have chosen that. Um, and I, I would, I would have missed out on it. Um, something really important. So I think therapy, uh, intentional friendships, um, over those times, I've also spent more time, regularly outdoors, some of it with people, some of it by myself and, um, uh, trying to rediscover what, um,
Speaker: what my view and understanding of, uh, God in control of the universe is and what that means for me. Um, and a lot of that, you guys may, um, resonate with this, but as a kid growing up in the nineties around, um evangelical church, there, there's, there was a lot that I,
Speaker: bought into again. And that was part of the the mask and persona that that I lived. And um I'm not going to use the deconstruction word because I don't think that's what what I've gone through. But what I've done is is peeled back some of the superficial layers of that.
Speaker: And I'm in pursuit of trying to figure out Um, what is God as a, uh, higher power in my life that is meaningful and matters to me and, um, and pursuing that spiritual growth, uh, certainly differently than the, the, uh, the faith of my family of origin, um,
Speaker: But doing it in a way that I'm not totally throwing that off or or, you know, running away or finding something totally different. It's just it's different. And that's been really, really an important part of my journey through this also.
Speaker: What is, you know, for for a guy that's in that role, you know, your wife looks at you as the leader, your kids are looking up to you as the leader, you're leading your company. what What is it? What goes on internally as you're trying to go down your own path of discovery and at the same time, people are looking at you to lead?
Speaker: Well, um if it isn't clear already, i think I will state it this way. I'm really good at wearing different masks. And um so leading the business through periods of really major internal struggle and um probably very deep depression and um anxiety ah about things that I didn't even know what I was anxious about. It was just, i've I've learned that there's like, I have these body signals that I'm now very aware of.
Speaker: um And it may be triggered by nothing, it but getting to a point of going, well, that's just a signal. That doesn't mean I have to act out of that, or it doesn't mean I need to change anything. I can just let it be a signal. But yeah,
Speaker: but So wearing the the mask of the business leader and the financial planner that works with clients and gives advice and has a smile on the face when they show up versus the guy that leaves completely with no affect on his face and goes home and um tries to figure out what I'm supposed to do as a husband and and dad. um that Those were just different masks. And I did that for a really long time. and
Speaker: A lot of the the work that I've been going through is how to quit doing that. um That if I'm having a bad day, I'm going to try really hard to not, you know, shelter it from work, you know, with a smile on my face. and I don't want to be rampaged through the office by any means, but um just be honest. that yeah Okay. Today's not a good one. And, um,
Speaker: we're going to flush it and come back tomorrow and, and, and try again. And same thing at at home is, um just trying to show up truly with who I am.
Speaker: And, um, instead of some other version or just completely checking out, that that was my other go-to when things get really hard, um, or I'm not sure what to do. It's like, I'm present, but I'm not there.
Speaker: Um, and the, those signals, so I would add that one as another signal, um, to the question you asked earlier, you know, um and now I've forgotten the, all the things, yeah, drifting, uh, the, the, the signals for when I'm drifting. Um, that's another one that, um,
Speaker: trying to work really hard to live a more unified ah life and in who I show up no matter what the the venue is. have a good friend. and Thank you for sharing I have a good friend who has ah ah ah a shorthand that I really love for what you just said.
Speaker: He calls it same face as all places. And I just, it's like short and I'm like, I just love that. And yeah he's really done an incredible job of like,
Speaker: he It's how he shows up. I know no matter what environment we're in, we we're more than deal friends. Right. So it's like, guys see him in a lot of different contexts and it's a, there's something refreshing to know that like, this is who I'm, this is, this is who, this is who my friend is. Right.
Speaker: That's another thing that I, I think I've gotten pretty good at um reading the room differently now um of, instead of reading it to see who the cool kid is and and start acting like them. Now I think I'm reading it to see who is truly authentic and who's got their, their mask on.
Speaker: And, um and I want to spend the, you know, time talking to the the person that is showing up as as who they really are. um I'm part of a a group in, um,
Speaker: Nashville that is some very has some very successful, high-impact leaders, um guys that you know articles are written about and things are happening in in the town that they're responsible for.
Speaker: But i get in that room and like, i I can see right through it. Like they're just the eight year old yeah wanting their mom's attention. Right. And they've just kind of gotten really successful at um accomplishing things. But there's still that eight year old that hasn't dealt with all the stuff that, you know, the stuff that I talked about that really came crashing down on on me. Yeah.
Speaker: And I think that's part of where I see myself as a financial planner really in in the next 20 years is leaning more into ah the the side of, okay, you just had this liquidity event. You just had this big thing that happened. You thought it was gonna solve all your problems. It solved some of them, but you're just as empty, maybe more empty than than you were before that happened. Why?
Speaker: And as somebody that has insight on the way money works, Um, I think I ha have i have a unique position to be able to, ah and because of my own experience of working my way through, uh, the, the dark night of the soul with some of this stuff, I, I have a unique position to be able to speak into somebody's life that has gone, gone through those moments.
Speaker: And what do I do now? I thought this was going to solve everything. It doesn't. Um, now what? Yeah, that's good. I want to, Josh, I want to get to to the conversations you have with clients and, and um yeah, just the the the most common ones that you get to have. But before that, yeah if if we could go back, you know, you've got kids that are that are in their 20s. Nooner's got, you know, a kid that just graduated high school. Mine are a little younger. But, um you know, what is, i think. i was Todd's nice way of telling us that we're old. Yeah.
Speaker: Hey, I got I got more gray than either one of you guys and no hair on top. So, you know, you guys, you may be you may have a couple of years on me, but I'm weather. All right. I couldn't resist. Keep going. mad And ah so I work with a ton of college age folks and.
Speaker: there They're there at that space where they're wrestling with, man, 25 years from now, I want to be Josh Self. Like I want to I want to have my own financial planning firm.
Speaker: And that means I've got to get an internship this summer. That means I've got to put my head down. That means I've got to start passing the test, doing the requirements, all that stuff. And they don't know, hey, along the way, I'm going to lose some of that.
Speaker: And like, sure, naturally, you're going to camp more as a 10 year old than you are as a, you know, a 30 year old. Like, that's just, yeah you can't, you can't avoid that stuff. And I'm not saying, hey, hey, everybody should be a backpacking guy in the summer. Because no, it's not, that's not for everybody.
Speaker: But there's this internal, like, you know, you've got to grow up. And at the same time, if you make too many choices that are about who you need to be for the world, then you're going to lose who you've been designed to be. What do you, what do you think that looks like as you've wrestled with that in your forties?
Speaker: What does that look like for a 20 year old to healthily engage with not losing who I am understanding those questions of, gosh, this is what I've really been trying to prove my whole life. How do i how do I engage with healthiness underneath the surface and at the same time be a productive citizen in the country and go after things professionally that I really want to go for? Yeah.
Speaker: So when I figure this out and write the book, I'll i'll be worth a while Please, please. This is a very hard question. and And we've had a front seat with our son going through college and and watching his peers go through this and him go through it.
Speaker: um And I'm going to try real hard not to generalize their their entire generation. um But I think...
Speaker: theres There's a messaging that has been pretty consistent of um find your passion and go do that work and you'll never work a day in your life. um And I think that comes from a good spot. I just think it's a lot of BS. Yeah.
Speaker: um My experience is the passion, and it's not just my own. I've seen this with, again, a lot of these high impact leaders and people that ah I'm around all the time.
Speaker: The passion and calling a lot of times happens because you were... Obedient to work really hard at a thing for a really long time. And then all of a sudden you're really good at it.
Speaker: And it's a lot of fun. um It's Malcolm Gladwell's, you know, 10,000 hours to expertise and mastery. um You don't get 10,000 hours by the time you're 22 years old.
Speaker: it It takes starting in a direction and staying committed to that. and And I don't mean staying committed to the same company.
Speaker: um I think the way I see the reading the tea leaves, I think those days are well behind us. And and a lot of these kids are going to be looking company to company regularly, um even career to career. um And i what I think always wins out is a constant insatiable appetite to learn more and more.
Speaker: and um So it it's ah it's tough because I've seen a lot of um kids in in high school and in college age that really kind of struggle and flounder with getting to the end of college and going, I don't know what my passion is. i don't know what my calling is. i don't I'm frozen. And it it really sticks them in place. And so they're going to go...
Speaker: flounder somewhere and until they figure it out. And that's the part that I think is is really the false messaging um that, ah and you know maybe this is coming from a parent that wants their kids to be to launch and to be um independent and um productive at what they do and and enjoy what they do. But sometimes work is work. It's not always enjoyable. Even I love what I do.
Speaker: Not all the time though. You know, um i'm I'm doing exactly what I'm supposed to be doing. I think what I was really well designed to do, but I don't love it all the time. And there's a lot of times I'm like, you know, maybe this is it.
Speaker: Maybe i need to call it quits and and do something else. Those days come. But I think the um what I would tell any 20 something year old kid is um start in a direction.
Speaker: Don't overanalyze it and um certainly get, you know, if if guiding in the mountains is an opportunity for a period of time, there's some great thinking time that that happens with that. And Todd, some of the, even the personal skills that your guides learn through what they do, what you were telling me, that's amazing. That is really very difficult to get um in in your early 20s in any other context.
Speaker: Um, but start doing something, start in, in a direction, learn from it, pivot to something else, pursue that very hard. Um, and I, I think by the time you get to your thirties and forties, um, maybe you'll be in a better spot than I was. and, and going, I didn't, this isn't what I thought it was all cracked up to be because in in the other case, you're being more intentional about, um, which spots you choose along the way.
Speaker: um If it's really um important.
Speaker: It's awesome. All right. So get into, you know, the conversations you have with clients. You said, i can I can see right through it. And I think that's so true for people that have done the work.
Speaker: you know we call it above the line, below the line here. and it's like when you've gone below the line in your life and you realize, man, the above the line is just the fruit of what's been happening beneath the surface. And, you know, you can look around and you you can sniff it out in a in a room.
Speaker: Uh, so what, what are the conversations you're having? You know, i love the, you've got the the word fear on the website of like, you know, you talk about the fear of, of money. Um, you know, what are, what are folks coming to you, you know, looking for advice for them? What are the conversations you end up having with them?
Speaker: Um, yeah, it's, it's really interesting that, um, so I'm stealing this from somebody else. I didn't make this up, but it, there's this idea of the the jelly donut theory and in money uh,
Speaker: the pressure that goes on the jelly donut. And the more the pressure is, you see, eventually you're going to see what was inside. It's going to come squirting out sideways.
Speaker: um And I see that all the time with our clients that no matter how many zeros they have in their net worth, it's, it's literally the same conversation um around fear,
Speaker: it's rarely about greed. Um, I really don't, I can't say that I have any clients that I would consider greedy. Um, a lot of them have, uh, just done the very unsexy thing, which is to save a little bit of money for a really long time. And and eventually it becomes a lot of money.
Speaker: And, um But all along the way, there's always this concern of, is it enough? Do I have enough? Is it going to be enough? That's the question I answer more than anything is, do do we have enough or are we going to run out? And we have very sophisticated tools that...
Speaker: Um, I use the analogy because we don't guarantee, I can't guarantee that somebody won't run out of money because I don't know how they're going to spend five or 10 or 15 years from now. i don't know what, uh, medical conditions are going to come up or what emergencies, or they just might lose their mind and go crazy and and go to Vegas and and blow it in a really stupid way. i I don't know, but I can take a snapshot and use some pretty sophisticated tools to figure out the trajectory that they're heading in. And so I liken it to being on a trail that's foggy.
Speaker: um And we know generally the direction that the trail is heading in, but we can't see the end. It might be a cliff. Hopefully it's not. And if we, if we've orienteered correctly, we know that the cliff is off to the right and we're going to stay to the left. And and that's generally where the the direction of the trail is heading.
Speaker: And then we reassess that on a regular basis to make sure that the trail is still where we think it is. um That gives some reassurance, but not guarantees. And so there's there's always this fear of... ah oh Is it enough? What if?
Speaker: um And, you know, to be really open about it, I have the same thing. I'm highly trained in this this stuff. I talk to clients as the expert all the time.
Speaker: And the fear of not having enough, like, is it it feels like it's in my DNA. I think about it all the time. what What do think is underneath that though, right? So if it's common and it doesn't matter the number of zeros, right?
Speaker: um Like, do you see a pattern of like what's often behind that? um You know, some might say it's a lack of faith in a God that's in control.
Speaker: i don't, I totally agree with that because some of the most fearful, um unlogical conversations I have are with people of faith.
Speaker: Um, and, or, you know, that they espouse a certain, uh, faith in a certain direction. um so it doesn't necessarily fix that. ah And so I so see this more as universal, um, uh, in that, um,
Speaker: So I don't know exactly how to answer that because it's different with some people. I'm i'm thinking of some clients where it's coming from more ah like a childhood trauma. they They grew up with so little or money was abused or held over their head. Yeah. So it could be coming from that um or just a fear of, am I going to be okay?
Speaker: What if it goes to zero? Am I still going to be okay? it could be some of that too. Well, one unlock that i that i someone gave me one time around this subject, just for whatever it's worth, is they actually had me take my worst financial moment in my life.
Speaker: And ah basically, you know what was good about that situation? like what was like What was happening that was good? What was happening that was ah not good? right and And then the the highest point, like you could say like the biggest win financially. And this is purely numbers, not like my...
Speaker: my definition of it, but just like had the least amount of money in my life and I had the most and in going through that. And it was really interesting because for me, one thing I discovered is is exactly what you said, is that very often the the worst moment for me was actually ah the surprise of the thing that happened to me.
Speaker: Right. And so it like, and it it did, it and it didn't matter ah high or low. What I really realized it was that fear of there's just this, whammy right and so from that it was a big unlock because it's like okay well what do i need in regards to visibility of what's coming right and so that was able to like almost set more of a um a foundation because it was really from something that happened when i was a kid and we ended up with really not a place to live and it was unexpected because the day before i thought we were fine and here i was an adult carrying around this weird fear
Speaker: that somehow tomorrow I'm going to be homeless. Right? yeah So, and it wasn't logical with what was on the paper. So anyway, just just an interesting thing that someone asked me to do that was really helpful.
Speaker: Yeah, I think so. In our our business, we call it money scripts. Everybody has a money script and the money script comes from somewhere. um i think for me, you know a lot of it was that that moving around created so much uncertainty.
Speaker: Um, and, and so that uncertainty gets layered over on any financial decision. It's like, well, yeah, we could do that, but what if, and, um, I specifically remember I was probably 10 or 11 years old, which is, these are all interesting but to me because there's a lot about my childhood memories that I really don't remember. There's really big blocks where I just have no recall of, um any events. But then there's these other moments that are like crystal clear. And this is, this one is crystal clear where um I think it was 10 11.
Speaker: My dad had just been demoted. Um, so he didn't lose his job, but what I understood in the moment was that he was going to be making less money. Um, eventually what that meant was we moved because he took another job, uh, to make more money. And, um, but in the moment, um, I don't remember the context, but we went to the local sporting goods store and he bought me a bat bag for, uh, baseball. Mm.
Speaker: I think these things were maybe $10 or $11. Like I, we got the cheap one, not didn't have all the bells and whistles and we got home. I walked in with it and my mom walked in the living room and went, where did you get that?
Speaker: And it was like, i I did something wrong, you know? And um it and then it it created an argument between my parents about, we can't spend that kind of money right now.
Speaker: um you You just got demoted. Like we don't have the money extra money. um So the feeling of not, we don't have extra money. we We can't do that right now. That's part of my money script. And and I have to...
Speaker: um Some days I do better at recognizing that and and not living out of it, but man, it is so entrenched. And I see that with clients. They don't have the same money scripts, but everybody has some sort of money script and it comes from somewhere. And that was that was my trigger, man. Because it was what I realized is when I went through it, the highest moment of my life financially, we actually had like not funny the highest high of my life, we had the least financially.
Speaker: right but what made the money thing really freaky to me was just that sudden one day i thought it was fine and it was because there wasn't good communication around it and so immediately all a sudden we're like we're in a bad way right and so yeah the shock and awe of it um and it made me realize it like whether we have little or we have much like it ah it really hasn't in my best moments of my life and best you know years of my marriage i look back and are often ah We had a pot to pee in, you know?
Speaker: Yeah. You know what? the And the voice in my head goes, yeah, but... Wouldn't it be better if you had more money? And and i I know the data on this. I see it anecdotally in real life. That's not true.
Speaker: It is not true. there There's an element somewhere between $75,000 to $100,000 a year where there's a dimining diminishing return on the value to your happiness that more money gives you. I know that.
Speaker: And yet that voice is still like it shows up immediately. and And I don't even have to think about it. But one of the things I love about what you guys are doing, um with the the the backpacking groups, having been, you know, and I've done some section hikes of the Appalachian Trail and, in um you know, time out of two or three or four days at a time. But so nothing super longer extreme, but doing that and knowing that everything that I need to exist over those three or four or five days is on my back. Yeah. So good.
Speaker: It's so simple. Yes. And I don't need any more than that. yeah And yet I get home and, and, um, I get bent out of shape about not having this or not having that. But, um, the, the backpacking illustration is such a, and I guess that's probably why I go back is it's, it's that regular reminder of that's all I need.
Speaker: Just a little bit of food, some water, little bit of shelter, And, um, going back to your other question about where the fear comes from in people. i mean, ultimately if if I lost everything and I still have my backpack and tent and sleeping pad and enough food for my family, wouldn't that be enough? I mean, yes, but you know, there, there's still like, I don't want that. I, I don't, um,
Speaker: I don't know. So it's this, it's this comparison of, I wholeheartedly believe that and I experience it when I'm backpacking, but there's still this part of the money script that just won't totally buy into it.
Speaker: seth Seth Godin has a great deal. I just heard it on a different podcast about the but. He's like, you know, everything changes at the but. Yes, I believe that.
Speaker: But like and the value really comes out and it's like every but has an and, you know, that that can be replaced in there. And it's so good. It's like. which good Yeah.
Speaker: Go ahead. No, which goes but to his point of like it the the believers maybe that he works with that like are maybe struggling the most with it. king For me, I know like I'm easy for me to say in hindsight, but it was a blind spot. I mean, I had faith I had, but it was this hidden thing that I couldn't figure out why the idea of that freaked me out and what actually freaked me out and caused me to live overly conservatively. We couldn't enjoy anything and we were like we were making more than I'd ever imagined I would ever make. And I was, I was unable to enjoy any of it. And so that was, that was the the big unlock. was just completely blinded me. And I knew, i knew my scripture. I knew I had faith. I seen God show up in my way, my life many ways before I trusted him, but I couldn't, it was, it was blind to me.
Speaker: What was the actual hangup? So interesting. yeah Yeah. So back to our, what do we tell 20 and 22 year olds? um you don't get to the other side of that without doing the work.
Speaker: Like it doesn't have to be a therapist. It doesn't have to be, yeah It can be a lot of different things, but you got to do the work yeah because you're coming out of childhood and college with money scripts that you're not aware of yet. And it's not it's not just money, but scripts about relationships and scripts about who I'm supposed to be as a professional or what I'm supposed to accomplish.
Speaker: um And using me as an example, those those scripts are running all the time. And that's what drove the ship until I brought awareness to that, did the work and, and, uh, uncovered where that was coming from and said, well, I'm not, I'm going to choose to do it differently.
Speaker: And, um, that, that takes, that That is the ultimate adventure of going down that trail of of trying to have that kind of self-discovery and um doing the work to uncover those types of things. Well, and a big shout out to you, because like when I hear you speak speak about yourself throughout this podcast, I heard you talk about how you you you wish you had more EQ and that wasn't like a strength of yours. But what I actually heard is someone is incredibly, had incredible EQ about everybody else. And then the awakening came when you came to apply that to your own self and going through that, doing the hard work of that discovery. So anyway, man, I appreciate you sharing that with us.
Speaker: It's really cool to see how that's working in your life. Josh, how do you, I totally affirm that. How do you help guys find their money script?
Speaker: Um, If I'm doing it well, it um' it's when I'm acting as a coach for for my clients. And the best coaches I've ever been around ask really good questions.
Speaker: They have the wisdom. they They can drop the hammer with the knowledge when when they need to. But um that's that's actually a skill that's taken me some time. And um I still have a long ways to go to really master that. But being a very good question asker, that's probably not the right way to say that. But you know doing the podcast has actually honed that for me. How do I ask these questions differently?
Speaker: a little bit better, a little more succinct to to get the uncover that i'm I'm hoping somebody shows up with. So taking that angle as a financial advisor, um it Starts with, okay, give me all the the documents. I don't even want to talk about the documents. Just give them to me. wellll We'll analyze them. We'll look at the data and um that'll tell us a lot. But I always have a list of more qualitative questions um that dive into trying the
Speaker: uh, how, who somebody really is and how they, they see the world and, and how they're going to make, uh, certain decisions. And so it's value questions. Um, it's, you know, types of things. If, if money and time weren't, uh, a limit, what would you spend your time doing?
Speaker: If you had one day left on earth, um, and you could do anything you wanted to, what would you do? and,
Speaker: And I, you know, for whatever reason, I don't ask that to everybody. And I have different ways of getting to that. But um some of my most favorite conversations and and clients that I love working with, we get way below the numbers. and And sometimes that takes time for them to get comfortable with, okay, Josh has the numbers down.
Speaker: figured out. Like we don't, okay, we'll look at everything. That's fine. But let's talk about how this impacts my kids or how am I going to create, you know, not let this money, blow up the relationships that that are most important to me.
Speaker: Um, and so I think asking good questions and being a better, um coach, um, is the the new, that's probably my goal for the next 10 years.
Speaker: So the last 20 has been about gaining the knowledge to to be able to be the dispenser of that wisdom, only to realize that's not really the best way to do it, right? They may get that information, but um it's not that doesn't create the life change that it will when, when I ask the right question at the right time and they have that, that own discovery, their own discovery around whether it's a money script or this financial decision they had or how they treated somebody.
Speaker: um And so it it takes time to build that kind of relationship with people. Yeah. What's the number one mistake you see ah wealthy people as they're thinking about transferring wealth to the next generation.
Speaker: Don't ever transfer wisdom. I'm sorry. Let me back, say that in the other. Don't ever transfer wealth unless you've transferred the wisdom first. um And I stole that from Ron Blue years ago. But I mean, i it it can't be any more succinct. the the The ways that I've seen it go completely sideways is somebody wants to use a large amount of wealth transfer as a way to teach.
Speaker: That's not the time to do it. Um, and, or they're doing it from a sense, like a place of guilt or responsibility. Um, I guarantee that will go sideways that, that never works. And in fact, many times what it does is it, it creates even more of a break in the relationship between parent and child.
Speaker: Um, no child wants to be, you know, talked down to or treated as a, um incapable ah adult. Um, So, you know, it's never too late to have this. And and a lot of lot of times we'll talk to families about having family conferences. We've even offered to...
Speaker: um to lead those for families. um the But you have to start early, starting early of what it means to manage a dollar, the value, and really before that, the value of what a dollar is. um That I see...
Speaker: um You know, the I think this is pretty consistent over a long period of time, but usually um by the the third generation, wealth of a family has diminished because the third generation has very little skin in the game at that point.
Speaker: They didn't create it and they didn't see mom and dad work really hard to create it. That's Gen 1 and 2. They're just reaping the fruits of what the first two generations ah have had. But there's a few families that have done this well where early on they bring Gen 3 and Gen 4 and Gen 5 in to see how these things work. And they're they're working very hard to transfer the wisdom before the kids get anywhere near the wealth. Yeah.
Speaker: um I had a friend that was from a really wealthy family um and they they had a family rule that we'll pay for you to go to college, we'll pay for you to get a grad degree. You will be welcome to work in the family operating business after you have a graduate degree and you've worked somewhere else for at least five years.
Speaker: Once you've done that and seen how hard that is, ah then we'll we'll work our way into whether it makes sense for you to come back and and work in the family business. So, you know, there's there's no right way to do it, but...
Speaker: um
Speaker: regardless of how many zeros there are, you have to instill a level of wisdom around money, uh, before a kid of any age, uh, starts trying to tackle it. And I, I work with several clients that are in their fifties, sixties, and seventies, and they never got that from their parents. And still to this day, they can't make, uh, uh, a sound decision. uh,
Speaker: on a regular basis. Sometimes they do, sometimes they, they, they do it right. Um, but I, you know, it happens over and over again. Yeah. Great, great conversation, Josh. This is a, thanks for, yeah, thanks for the courage to to pull back the curtain and see and show kind of what goes on behind the surface. I think it's, ah it's awesome just for folks to get to understand life is, ah is life is not about what's presented out front. There's so much more going on and appreciate your courage in that. Thanks for, thanks for being with us today.
Speaker: Thank you, Josh. I appreciate you guys having me on here and love the back and forth and especially Todd, after you had been on my podcast. And i think ah again, just to summarize the the bigger point of what we're trying to say here. I, I, I see it regularly with the, the adventurers that I talked is um we all have to find ways to, to push ourselves. I think it's part of, um,
Speaker: Living our best life right now, yes, but being the optimal human we were intended to be is where are the limits? Let me push that. And I had one guest describe it in kind of concentric circles that your comfort zone is right in the middle.
Speaker: Then you have... Um, you, you stretch out into the growth zone. Eventually, if you go too far, you hit the the death zone. So there's kind of a sweet spot to, to find. But the problem is, is if you don't keep pushing and stretching the growth zone limits, it atrophies back to the comfort zone.
Speaker: And so much of I think what you guys are instilling and and seeing and and getting people outdoors and why I love these conversations is we're creating a community of conversations around how people stretch that growth zone and the benefit to their lives and the ripple effect around them that it that it has. And if they if we don't.
Speaker: then one way or the other, we atrophy back to the comfort zone that really is the true death zone, right? Of of comfort and ease and not pushing ourselves.
Speaker: Yeah. The end of that circle is the quick death zone. The comfort zone is the slow, agonizing death zone. Yeah, that's the boil and the frog. Yeah. Josh, how can how can people find you? The podcast, somebody wants to get in touch with you about financial advice.
Speaker: How can they get in touch with you? Yeah. So, um, uh, uh, website real easy, ridgelinewealthadvisors.com and it's advisors with an ORS. Um, the, the podcast and, and our blog is, is hosted on that website, but you can find the the podcast on any podcast app as well. Um, I think usually you have to search the whole thing, the on adventure podcast with Josh self.
Speaker: Um, and I've got um, Instagram page for it and, ah do a little bit on LinkedIn under my own name and then a little bit on Facebook for the podcast as well. But um yeah, we'd love to talk to anybody. The money side's fun and enjoyable, but certainly anybody that wants to talk about that, but anything adventure, you're going get my attention. All right, man.
Speaker: Let's go. Thanks so much for your time. Thank you. All right. Thanks guys. Oh, oh, oh, oh,
