Transcript
Speaker: And I just got burned out. I just hit a wall. And I read The Working Geniuses book by Patrick Lencioni. And it resonated. I gave it to Max. Max read it. Max came back to me and said, this story is about you.
Speaker: You're the angry guy in the story. Because you're burned out like he was burned out. And was like, huh. A 35-year-old is a lot like a 17-year-old. They're just...
Speaker: a lot better at putting the mask on and, uh, but they have the same hurts and they're insecure about things. Probably the only time I ever saw, like ever remember of conflict is when we decided, Hey, your stuff in Houston was wrapping up and was like, Hey, why don't you jump on here?
Speaker: And what role were you in? Ops. Ops. Mm hmm. And there was there was conflict because I think the visionary side of you was wanting to come to life.
Speaker: I mean, i'm I'm glad we pulled the plug quick. I mean, i remember sitting around a fire there with you and we were like, look, this is not worth our friendship. yeah I should never be a head coach.
Speaker: I think that I've won like three games as a head coach in Little League softball. And it's not for trying. I try really hard. Does that show up on your bio? Like, three-game winner? No, three-game winner. It's actually above co-founder WayForward, so i don't know what that stands for.
Speaker: Amen. Timber Grub Sports, three-game winner, WayForward, co-founder.
Speaker: Welcome to Unstuck and Alive. I'm Todd Pinkston. And I'm Steven Nooner. We have watched it happen. Fear gives way to faith. Isolation melt into belonging.
Speaker: The stuck places break open and life begins to flow again. On this show, we sit around the fire, so to speak, and listen to the real stories of everyday heroes.
Speaker: Men and women who have found freedom and stepped into the unforced purpose they were made for. If you're tired of striving, if you're longing to breathe deep, break free, and come alive again, then you're in the right spot.
Speaker: This is Unstuck and Alive. Let's go.
Speaker: the show today, we have Alex Noop, co-founder Wayford Adventures, co-owner of Texas General Contractors in Houston, Texas. I have spent more time in the backcountry with this man than anyone else.
Speaker: Love the conversation. we're going to get into what it looks like to continue, no matter where you are in life, to discover who God has created you to be. Some stories from Trail and life, some incredible lessons, and a man that has a lot of wisdom.
Speaker: You don't want to miss it. It's going to be a great conversation. Hope you enjoy. We've sat around more fires than probably anybody else that I've ever been with. Alex Noop. But one day in 2013, there was no fire because everything went terribly wrong.
Speaker: Tell us about the morning of Trip Zero. And yeah what was going through your mind?
Speaker: well this story might need to be a little collaborative because you were there too. And yeah I don't want to. ah give off the wrong impression my memory of 13 years ago. So gosh, yeah, I guess that was the day four.
Speaker: Yeah. said Yeah. I mean, that was a rough trail to begin with. We'd we'd picked a a route that looked epic um and and grabbed these Texans and gone out in the in the woods. and And we already done a couple of passes, I think. Yeah.
Speaker: And we were on the wrong side of the divide. needing to come back. And, um, if I recall, we went to bed night three and kind of a washout, just nasty weather.
Speaker: Yeah. And I mean, you and I both knew we're going up and over that, which we couldn't really see. and we'd only looked at on, you know, aerial satellite stuff probably and woke up the next morning and it was no better.
Speaker: And, I'm sure we'll, we may have opportunities to talk about this more today, but, um, I was probably worrying about the conditions a little bit more than you, Todd. Um, Todd was probably like, yeah, let's go. It'll be fine.
Speaker: Like, i don't know if it's gonna be fine. We'll figure it out. Yeah. Um, so I guess we humped it a thousand feet up yeah to above treeline and a nice lake and just a lot of boulders and a lot of rain. And, um,
Speaker: I think a lot of rain started turning into, we need some shelter. And we we hunkered down in between some rocks and slung it a fly over us and huddled with 12 grown men in ah in a wind and rain storm for a couple hours, if I remember. Yeah, and I think rain turned to to hail and some snow. Until one guy said, ah are we gonna die of hypothermia?
Speaker: directly across from me, I think was Bill Strahan holding another man in his, like his, I want to say crotch. Can say crotch on this? Yeah. You already did. Okay.
Speaker: So, um, I, you know, I knew Bill for four days at that point, but not as well as I know him now. Yeah. So we all close. Because you're the man in the crotch? Uh, who was the man in the crotch? Maybe we keep that off of
Speaker: anonymity i think i know who it was i'm gonna leave it anonymous yeah yeah so i mean i remember know it all happened quick enough that we went from hiking clothes to or hiking to we're under this we gotta get undercover we were mostly all still wearing um shorts and rain jackets um uh i i was really cold mean i think when when the weather passed we uh We got out. I'm like, Todd, I think I might be hypothermic. You know, was, and I mean, at that point, you and I had done a lot of guidance. That was a, that was memorable, very memorable for me too.
Speaker: Yeah. I'll never forget it. What was the, what was the temperament before you, before that happened? Like, so you're four days in, is there like, is, I don't know the strength of the group. Are you, is everyone in pretty good spirits and we're rolling in and then you get punched in the face or is it kind of like people are already struggling?
Speaker: Well, I mean, this was, i mean, Trip Zero was all CrossFit Richardson guys. So these were, these were fit men. um But no one quite knows if you've never done that, you just don't know what you're up against until you're doing it. So i mean, I can still remember that the first big hill we climbed, there was visible signs of frustration.
Speaker: um But I don't, I think they were, they were pretty much, they were bought in. But for sure was this stretched them more than than anything we'd done the whole trip.
Speaker: And I think, you know, you talked about the trip being hard. Like, Nooner, we had never done a ah trip with um with all kind of, you know, middle-aged. They were, you know, 35 was probably the average age.
Speaker: CrossFit guys, these were six-day trips. And so... Our thought coming in was like, man, what if what if this isn't challenging enough? Like we we need to we need to make this a challenging trip. And so we drew up a route we had never done before, had never scouted it. i mean, 100% of the trail was was new to us day four is usually like the turning point day where, you know, you, you start to settle in and and the Lord had already been doing a powerful work. And so it was almost like this anticipation of the day.
Speaker: And I think for Alex and I, it was probably more the hit, the hit to the face of like, everything just went wrong. Yeah. Just punch right nose.
Speaker: I mean, cause we, you know, once that storm had passed, it's, uh,
Speaker: Todd and are powwowing because are we going to try to go over that now? For one thing, like there's, we don't see a trail. It's all wet. I don't think it's safe. We're all wet and cold and tired.
Speaker: Do we bust it back down a quarter mile and find a bad campsite and just warm up? Or do we try to, do we try to go up and over this thing? And, and eventually he said, like, I think,
Speaker: there is not a lot of safety in trying to go up and over this thing with this group right now in this moment. So we went back. So we went back. And then did it the next morning. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: And then, I mean, for me, it's like I look at that moment and one, that was like the turning point for Bill. I mean, when when it seemed like everything went wrong for him, everything went right. And and he talks about it on on his podcast of of, you know, we interviewed him at just the the light bulb that went on and what God did in that moment and and eventually became the catalyst to wait for it starting. But yeah.
Speaker: New Point, we've guided a ton of trips together. ah you know We've seen things go exactly according to plan. We've things seen things go terribly you know not according to plan. like mean what at You're far more than a backpacking guy, but like what has the Lord taught you through guiding trips? and you know This perception of being in control, yet also it's you know it's holding things open-handed because you know you're not in control.
Speaker: Uh, that's a great question. Might need, might, might need a while to unpack that. Um, yeah, I mean, the first thing I think of is you make a plan, you hold loosely and you see how things change, um, and, and be ready to adapt and modify. i think that for me personally, I could be very much in my head and, um,
Speaker: I played the what if game a lot. And, and if I don't, if if I don't, if I'm not forced to act, then I can get lost there. I couldn't articulate this when i was 22, but I think guiding was a good fit for me because it pushed me out of that. And I mean, there's no, there's no time to navel gaze when it's time to move on.
Speaker: We got places to go. we We got to complete this trip. We got a storm coming and there's a meal to be made or whatever. um So, mean, I think that may seem like a fairly minor thing for God to teach through an experience, but I mean, for me, it's been meaningful to realize like, well, that's how you wired me.
Speaker: And I need to be careful that I don't get too lost in planning. And sometimes it's better to just act. Well, then probably a layer layer deeper for for me The big thing God gave me in guiding is a vision for life that um yeah I can be confident in who he made me to be yes's um be.
Speaker: ah That all of those uncertainties of adolescence and early adulthood, um God was fine with that. God's fine with that.
Speaker: and um So it moving thinking about stuck moments, as a first-time guide, i think i I was kind of stuck in the mental space of like, can I successfully go be an adult in this world?
Speaker: yeah and um I think I needed and needed help through guiding. god God used guiding to help me like, yeah, you can. And I think all the images I had of what being a grown up adult looked like, um, I felt like I caught a vision for, it could be that, or it could be something else and it's all going be fine.
Speaker: Alex. So what do you think had you there though? Like if you were to like, look back, what do you think was beneath the surface that that had you questioning that to begin with? What what did you not receive or what did you not receive? And believe I'm just, I'm curious, like what's what's the backstory there? Yeah.
Speaker: mean I was a quieter kid generally. Um, I wouldn't say, in i mean, today I wouldn't say like, Oh, I'm an introvert. I also wouldn't say, Oh, I'm an extrovert. I think I'm yeah somewhere in the middle. You're a vert.
Speaker: I'm a vert. Um, but probably lean a little like, well, i'd i'd I'd like to spend a little more than half of my day, like by myself or with a couple people.
Speaker: Um, And I think as a kid, it i didn't know how to articulate that. and and And then like, I mean, I know the camera doesn't show this and I've never met you, Steven. I'm six and a half feet tall.
Speaker: I was kind of a gangly and awkward kid. You know, so my my middle school age time, I was just kind of a goofball. And you kind of combine all that. And I think I was, I lacked a lot of security and confidence and in family.
Speaker: in the the person that was projected to the world. Right. So I think I carried that i in ah in a way, carry that with me still, but it was very much in my late adolescence and early adulthood wrestling with that.
Speaker: And so I think that I needed a vision for, for confidence and, and something deeper that God made in me. And you're a father, correct?
Speaker: I am. It's the first time we met. So like knowing that to be true, like what like how are you thinking about like your children? fair.
Speaker: Yeah,
Speaker: that's a really good question. um I don't feel like my, my, I had a great childhood. My parents were great and they never made me feel like, Oh, you must do this.
Speaker: or Or this is the path that that guided me, gave me a suggestions. I think that for me, for my kids, I think about, i hope I give them tools and um resources to help them make honorable choices with their time in life and, and know that they're,
Speaker: um that God loves them no matter what. And um so really it's really, it's just, I hope that they catch a vision for freedom with their life.
Speaker: love that. Can you say more about freedom? Yeah. um Yeah. I mean, freedom to to pursue things that they enjoy doing, and pursue things that matter them.
Speaker: people around them. I hope i mean i hope that they're um that they they are orienting a life that is others first focused. and um man I think if, you know from my from from my experience, I know that a big part of what i just talked about is I think what gave me freedom was realizing that um
Speaker: God equipped me fine for for the task at hand. and And that doesn't matter matter if the task is big or small. and i am capable look and and God will help with that. so I think that the the the the freedom I hope they have is is the sense that they're enough for wherever God has them.
Speaker: That's good. That's good. Thank you. g Noop, as you think about the the the internal dialogue that was created you know throughout your childhood or there are just the you know the the voice that was playing inside your head. And then you know you fast forward and you you you you bounced around. You did a ton of like really cool things in your early adulthood. you know you you worked down in the Virgin Islands. You worked in Minnesota. You got your MBA at an entrepreneur school. Yeah.
Speaker: What were you learning along the way about yourself that's made you into the guy you are today? Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I think like explorer kind of – sometimes I used to think like, man, I should have been born 200 years ago. Like I love discovering new things. No, don't.
Speaker: know, if you read like Western novels and stuff, like, I'm not sure I'm tough enough to have survived that whole thing. but Whatever, dude, I've been on the trail with you. yeah Freaking man, yeah man amongst boys.
Speaker: um Yeah. I think that I just love what's that like, or what's, what's, how does that work? Or, you know, that this the unknown of something new is very attractive. Um,
Speaker: That's good in. there's a there's a There's both sides of the sword there, right? So, yeah, I think those early those early experiences just really opened my eyes to to that, how I'm wired to just explore.
Speaker: Yeah. and and And what was the wrestle... you know You know, you go to any happy hour and people are like, hey, man, what do you do? um And I love like as Simon Sinek talks about it. It's like, man, it's not the question is not what you do, but it's like who you are. And that matters more than anything else.
Speaker: But i'm sure they I'm sure you felt a tension in your 20s and even maybe early 30s of, you know, you've you've gone and done different things. And so the answer that question might might feel different. But inside, man, I think you were learning and being refined in some incredible ways. like tease out that difference of like, where did you feel maybe some of the external pressure to be somebody you're not? And then what's going on inside about how God's shaping you and and forming you into the man you are.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, I like all of us in our twenties, I think we had the, we're looking around at people that are doing the jobs that I guess we were supposed to do the consulting gigs or the whatever. And I had all the feelings of I'm i'm missing the boat.
Speaker: Um, But I think that for for me, I,
Speaker: well, I just, I just wanted, i wanted to be more clear what I was made to do, right? Like what I was made for. And um for for me, that was just kind of like one next experience after another. So what can I learn from this one? Okay. Okay.
Speaker: what can I learn from this one? What can I learn from that? and And some of it's about like how the world works, but some of it's just like more, more still about how I'm wired and we're still about, cause it, you know, just cause at 22, I had this moment where I felt that there was a spiritual inflection point of what kind of thought about myself and the vision for my life. Like,
Speaker: and I wasn't done. i feel like God was continuing to be like, well, opening little insights into how how i was how how I was made. I'm not sure I answered your question.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker: I would like you to, um if you would, um unpack that a little bit more, the 22-year experience, right? what Can you say more what was going on and what happened or became Yeah, I mean, I'm i'm referring there to...
Speaker: that guiding my experience guiding and, and, you know, I'd come to faith in, in high school. Um, but prior, prior to that faith was, was a lot of like do's and don'ts and, um, guiding really was where I saw that faith is more freedom. And, um, so, and for me personally, it was that moment of,
Speaker: hey trust and believe in who God made you to be, that you york you don't need to be someone else. And what what have you found? You've sat around the circle with, i mean, hundreds of people as they've shared their life story, from high school kids to, you know, successful CEOs. And, you know, you've guided for the last 20 years.
Speaker: what What do you feel like you've learned about others that has formed you? Well, i remember I remember going into this Way Forward adventure with Utah. I mean, we were wondering, will this work? do Will adults care?
Speaker: Sure. You know? um And I think the big takeaway for me is, oh, yeah. and um And that a 35-year-old is a lot like a 17-year-old. They're just a lot better at um putting the mask on and But they have the same hurts and they're insecure about things. And, um you know, God wants to meet them in a very intimate spot and assure them that they are just who God made them to be.
Speaker: And I think it's all shaped me to believe that I love some somewhere i heard you're just like everyone else. There's no one like you.
Speaker: I love that phrase. And ah and I think guiding really is sitting around hearing hundreds of life stories has taught me like, that's true for us. We are so all unique. And then this, this mystery that God loves us all the same.
Speaker: I mean, it's profound. So, I mean, I think that that shapes me and in the way I look at the world. I like i just, I just tend to view people as,
Speaker: we're all that God feels the same way about us all. And, um, I think i'm I'm sometimes surprised in my normal life that people don't think that way.
Speaker: You my, my kind of worldview is, is that we would all be like grateful that God has shaped us in this way. And then, and then you realize like, well, if you're really living and I don't want to portray myself. Like I've figured it out, but if you're really still living in your, um,
Speaker: mask behind your mask, like you don't think that way, right? Like you're guarded, mad, whatever. Everybody's a threat.
Speaker: Yeah. That's right. And the fear of being found out of like, what if I'm, yeah what if I'm not the guy that this mask portrays me to be?
Speaker: What, what for you has been like the shaping moments of, of learning to drop your mask? Well, um I mean, marriage and having kids um and just navigating a relationship with someone for 13 years in. and ah I don't want to drift into roommate territory or like I want to have a vibrant relationship with my wife. Like it's so funny how
Speaker: you know, I guess it doesn't take that long, maybe three to five years, but by then, you know, one little look of the eye or raising the eyebrows, you you might as well be yelling right in their face, right? Like, it's amazing.
Speaker: he So I think I was surprised by that, that like, the if you're going to be in this relationship with someone for a long time, it's going to grow, then you got to work.
Speaker: Yeah. And um we've had, I mean, certainly like conflict will bring that up, but also just simple things like trying something new together or going on a trip somewhere.
Speaker: ah So I think about that. I think about my kids and um I mean, for me, I was an only child. So. I have no context for how to raise more. like we We have three, Stephen, and they fight each other. And I'm like, i don't – I'm just like, just stop. You know, like so.
Speaker: um You didn't ever fight two siblings? No. You always won. Yeah. It's easy. You want to hack? Yeah, sure.
Speaker: The get-along shirt. How old are your kids? 10, 8, and 3. Okay. Well, don't turn me into CPS, but i my kids have wonderful memories. And the moment they didn't love it, the get along shirt, extra, extra, extra large shirt. You put them all in it together or the two that are fighting is usually just two that are fighting in the moment.
Speaker: And it starts, they're mad. and it doesn't take long when they get to complete laughter and it softens their hearts. um It's just, ah it's been a game changer for us.
Speaker: That's great. Yeah. So mean, I think that like, think that when I, I have to humbly go, to my kid and be like, I'm sorry, I got that wrong. Um, I think that's continued to shape me.
Speaker: Yeah. Um, and then I think professionally, know, continue to, um, it's, I'm 46 now, but I continue to do stuff. It's not much different than when was 16 or 22 or 26 and I say the wrong thing or I forget something and, or I,
Speaker: And then I realized, like, gosh, I got to, I got to, I got whatever I'm doing to cover some pain or something, I need to look at that and I need I need to go say, I'm sorry. need to try not to do that.
Speaker: But I need to get to the bottom of, like, why am I behaving that way? Why am I acting that way? So that's kind of, that's how I think about masks nowadays.
Speaker: Drill Moore, you know, marriage was the first thing you talked about. And and I know your bride, you married an incredibly sharp, driven, and and just a super soft woman. You know i mean? Like, she'll she won't call you out on your stuff, right?
Speaker: She She won't? We're talking about the same person. So, I mean, you know, god she gave, the Lord gave you a gift in, in Kristen and yeah you know, she's, she's awesome.
Speaker: What, like, how has that been shaping for you? Yeah. A little, a little color to like the, the way she can call out and the differences in households we grew up. I think when we were dating, we went and visited some friends and,
Speaker: they were they had small kids and they were like putting kids to bed or something and we were doing dishes and we we got in a fight about something. And um i don't know, I think she just like said, she just like asked me a strong question and I think I responded, why are you yelling at me?
Speaker: You know, so I had to come a long way from, i mean, my my my example of, I didn't grow up in a ah confrontational household. So,
Speaker: We've had to learn because she wants to get right at it. And um I've had to learn to like be okay with that and be like, just dive right in with it. um But then still recognize that I'm not a, I'm not a in the moment processor. There's the, yes, I need to engage the conversation and say what I think without getting my feelings too hurt. But, but I also need to like, I needed some time to reflect on it.
Speaker: And, I need to not let that be an excuse to put it away. I got to come back to it and bring it back up. If there's something to talk about. say more on that. What does it look like for y'all? Cause I mean, in every marriage there's, there's one that is, you know, address it head on and there's another that needs to take a little time.
Speaker: What are some tools you guys use to to help navigate that? um Besides boxing gloves. Yeah. just say I was going to say, like, I just let her remind me every 24 hours of the fight we were having the night before or whatever. well that's probably not the answer. um I mean, I think it's, this is silly and simple, but sometimes it's okay to like switch formats.
Speaker: Like if you get into a knockout and you talk for a long time about something and and you're not quite, you're not settled, it's okay to like write a long text message the next morning.
Speaker: Here's how I'm feeling. right? Or, or an email or whatever. And, um, for us, that's been a good, that's been a good tip, you know, just to, okay. Okay. Like let's, let's, let's not leave this topic, but maybe let's find a different way to articulate it. And, and then after, I mean, inevitably if I've, if, if he's written a long text or if I've written something, we're going to come back and talk about it the next evening or something.
Speaker: Um, and then i like, I mean, not being afraid to ask for third party help and get, counseling and talk. So catch us up to where, where you are right now.
Speaker: You're, you're how many years into did you see It's, uh, we're seven years this year. So we're and a half come up seven half hey You know, in the, the adventure of entrepreneurship, i mean, you, you got your MBA in entrepreneurship. You've been a part of a handful of different things. You're, you know, you work for your dad's company,
Speaker: but nothing prepares you like, you know, jump, jumping all in you and one of your best friends buy out a company and kind of tell us about, you know, the, the adventure of what you've been in. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. So we, we bought a company that, um, One owner before us started in 1981 and all restoration contracting work. So any property damage, fire, water, mold, whatever.
Speaker: So it's a very reactive kind of responsive business. And, um you know, any business that's at the, I guess when the founder has grown it and is approaching retirement, um we bought it at a moment where it was probably ebbing.
Speaker: and And so our first, you we thought we were kind of this level when we bought it and really we were here. So the first couple of years was a grind of kind of puffing like puffin life back into it. and um and then And then it's been growth mode since then. um You know, along the way, the the biggest thing has been, so we do a lot of like disk assessment and strengths finder working genius and a couple of years, probably the the biggest lesson for me in the last couple of years has been, um well, so the first couple of years, it's like, okay, me and my partner, are we're just doing everything.
Speaker: there's Let's not worry about an org chart. Let's just survive. And then as you kind of get out of that, you you start going, okay, well, we'd originally said,
Speaker: Sales is probably more max and operations is probably more Alex. So let's start dividing into that a little bit more. And a couple of years of that went by where I was running operations. And in the summer of 2024, Houston had two fairly significant um weather events, a derecho, straight line wind event.
Speaker: And then six weeks later, ah a hurri a small hurricane hit Houston. um And I just got burned out. I just hit a wall and I read the working geniuses book by Patrick Lencioni and it resonated. i gave it to Max, Max read it. Max came back to me and said, this story is about you.
Speaker: You're the angry guy in the story. Cause you're burned out. Like he was burned out. And was like, huh. And so we took the test and like, long story short, like,
Speaker: all this natural talents you would want to have if you're running operations for a contracting business is like my weaknesses. Um, it's just not a good fit for me personally. And, and and that's why it naturally leads to to burnout at some point. Again, you know, when you're younger, you can kind of power through that stuff. But by that point I was early forties and just don't have the interest in, in ability to power through like I could 15, 20 years ago.
Speaker: So anyway, um, And my my talents, where we've come to find out, are more on the creative side. and I used to give Todd so much crap about being a visionary. And um ah maybe in retrospect, that was because I was jealous or I had this i knew that inside I was maybe one, two, and I didn't know how to express it.
Speaker: you All sorts of shadows there. um What kind of crap did you give him? I mean, I just just want to know. you know Not that I've experienced any of that, but...
Speaker: Well, what kind of crap would you would you give him? What words besides crotch are safe on this podcast? Whatever you're willing to say. can you put a Can you put a list in the chat of safe words?
Speaker: I mean, I think that, ah him I don't know. I think I just probably referred to you kicking your feet up and getting off into the distance. and Well, you got the real work done.
Speaker: Yeah. Out of out of frustration. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, that's been for me in the last few years, just, just walking through, okay I thought I was this way.
Speaker: And, and again, kind of so but on the theme of feeling stuck, like I think that there had been a period professionally where what I had in mind for what I am capable of doing operational and and honestly, like it not always working that well.
Speaker: And then you hit a point where like, oh, the reason is, is because you're not really wired for that. And um so that's been a, navigating that over the last few years has been exhilarating, but also scary.
Speaker: You know, to go through any kind of change like that is scary. What do you feel like, you know, if if if you start a company or, you you know, you bought the company and you end up in a role, it's because you obviously feel like you would be good at that role.
Speaker: And Max knows you well. He thought you would have been good at that role. And you were good at the role. But not out of your strengths, just out of, you know, sheer hard work and, and you know, character and your work ethic.
Speaker: you know, when you rewind, what led you to a place where you were identifying the roles and the, you know, the skills you had as something different than what your natural abilities were?
Speaker: Like, why did you get to that place where you were jumping into the operational seat, even though you're now learning that's not who you are? Yeah. um I mean,
Speaker: So like engineering degree and combined like an engineering degree and and being somewhat introverted. Like the the the those are the basic components of like, yeah, well probably like.
Speaker: Ops. Figuring out how to do ops is the fit, you know. And you love spreadsheets. And what's better than a good spreadsheet. And nothing better than being able to rib ah a visionary, you know, so. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah It would really cramp my style. Yeah. if I could no longer make fun of Todd's visionary role. Yeah. I need some credibility. oh Yeah, no, that's a great question. i mean, yeah, it kind of feels like for the first half of my working life has been trying to force round peg through a square hole.
Speaker: Um, you know, and I don't, I don't mean, I don't regret anything, but I'm grateful to have discovered it now. You know, it's, it's just better, better than later.
Speaker: What would you tell yourself if you could look back at, you know, 25 year old Alex and, and give him some, some advice? Gosh, I don't know. Um, you know, it's funny. I went, when around that time, I used to joke that I wish my, my, my title was friend.
Speaker: Like I think some of my favorite things that I enjoyed going to new places, meeting new people. Like, how do you, like, what do you, why do you do what you do? What do I just really, and in and people of all different backgrounds, like I love that. And I still do to an extent, right? But now it's with kids and whatnot. Your, your time is a little bit more limited.
Speaker: um But there was this in me was like this, I just really love getting to know people. in a, in a more intimate fashion. i mean, that's why guiding was a great fit for me. um And I, I like getting lunch with people and grabbing coffee. And I, at the time I hated the idea of networking because I thought it was like always going to meet a thousand strangers.
Speaker: I'm like, that sounds awful. um But if I could slowly meet a thousand people through like breakfast and lunches,
Speaker: let's do it. So I think I would have like encouraged like, hey just lean into that. he um You know, in the last couple of years, part of the transition the last of years is I've been working with deer hood. So I'm on this and Andrew deer had friend of way forward. And um he's at some point he's like, well, we just need to get you a,
Speaker: prescription of GLP ones and you can go have like seven lunches a day and just, just backto back to back to back. You don't need GLP one. You're like, you know, ultra, if ultra fit. I would say skin. That's not a good thing. You're, you know, you, you can still see your six pack.
Speaker: Oh, well that's not true. um Nope. I mean, am i you know, am I, am I describing this right? It's almost like,
Speaker: You felt like from nine to five, you had to to do the things that would make money. and And engineering and spreadsheets, that's what you equated to work.
Speaker: Five o'clock hits, and it's like the real you comes out. you're You're incredible with people, yet you're not like the... you're not the, you know, you don't dominate a room, but you love people. Well, you care about people. You're super curious.
Speaker: You're always up for an adventure. You're in, and those are the things that would like give you life, but you just, in your mind, there wasn't a context for that's my job because my job has to be kind of the, the grind of work.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, there's probably a lot there, Todd. Um, It's not fair that the inner the the interviewee knows the interviewer knows interviewee so well. you can ask such perceptive questions. um Yeah, I think that ah definitely had ah what was modeled for me was a dad who worked a ton.
Speaker: You know, he started his own business. He was up and gone every morning that before I'd go to school. Always home. always home very present with after school stuff, but, um, you know, i equated to work means being in the chair.
Speaker: So I think, and I still like a big disconnect for me is it's hard for me when I'm at the office to not slip into just total task mode.
Speaker: Yeah. Just get done, get it done, get it done, get it done and never really talk to people. Um, but But then but then i yeah i can I can schedule time to meet new people and network and get to know them.
Speaker: That's all outside the office. So kind of uniting those two parts of my life is probably important work to do. Well, and I think... I mean, we talked about it before we hit record of, of you know, the idea of, you know, you put it in the sales and marketing bucket. It's like, man, you're hoping something turns the corner. It's really hard to measure.
Speaker: But when when you think about operations, it's like, dude, you can run a great job. You can manage a project really well. You hit timelines, you hit budget, you get the approval of man and you see the boxes getting checked.
Speaker: hmm. So what is, and almost, I mean, I think it's, it's, it's the way that we've been developed to think of, you know, you said there's this, the statement, well, of, you know, to you, you equated work is like sitting in the chair, you're, you're sitting in the chair, your hands are on the keyboard, you're, you're pumping something out. You can show the fruits of your labor.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. But now you're learning at 40, you started you know started the journey at 44. You're learning, man, the way I've been wired is actually different than this.
Speaker: Sure, you're good at this stuff. I mean, you're you're great at project management. You're great at at logistics and details. But life comes from people. Life comes from relationships. Life for you comes from the next adventure on the next horizon. Man, when you think about the next 44 years, like what do you hope that it looks like?
Speaker: yeah Yeah. I mean, honestly, I want to lean, I'm to start leaning back more to that idea of being a friend, um, and, and helping people ah accomplish the thing that feels impossible, you know, help helping folks with, Hey, I didn't believe that ABC was possible and here I am now. And it was so,
Speaker: aye I don't mean to be over overly simplistic, but if that's what the next phase of my life looks like, that's fine. Yeah. That's more than fine. That's great.
Speaker: If you think about the role you played in Way Forward, that's exactly what you did. you know more that i was about to ask you about that, Todd. I wanted i wanted to get like actually get your perspective on i'm on this side of it, right? I mean, because you were there, right?
Speaker: And Alex, specifically too, to you, but the thing I wonder is like, okay, well, clearly... God did really great things through operations as when you were doing that in way forward or whatever, when Todd was busy visioneering, you know? ah ah So I just, I want to, I want to unpack someone sitting here watching two guys that trip zero, this thing started from like, I want to dig into that a little bit. So what did you see Todd and Alex? Like when you look back on that, do you see that as wrong or Hey, actually it was, it was, it was good that I did those things.
Speaker: Yeah, and I, for sure, I'd love i'd love your perspective, but the if if you if you think back over the last 20 years, you and i sat around after after we sent Young Life Trips home, we'd go to town, grab a burger and a beer, and we'd dream together about, the question was, why couldn't this work for people our age?
Speaker: Why couldn't this work for people in their late 20s, in their thirty s in their forty s fifty s like, We had seen it work with high school kids and we would just sit around and end spitball. Spitballing led to, you know, you're an actant, you want to do a project.
Speaker: we we We literally over a weekend got together and, you know, whiteboarded what WayForward could look like on the Young Life office wall and and continued to dream about it.
Speaker: You go on a big adventure in 2013. At the end of that trip, we don't think this is about to start an organization. It's retroactively, we call it WayForward Zero. But for us, it was just ah a backpacking trip with a group of CrossFit guys and kind of went south.
Speaker: like Almost was a total disaster. Almost was a disaster. Really, thread the needle. Yeah.
Speaker: And then Bill invites us in. and I remember calling you and you had actually just started. guys you were working on some some venture in Houston.
Speaker: was the ah the second chance employment initiative. yeah stuff Yeah. And so you were pumped about that. But it was like, dude, remember you saying go for it. And I was like, hey, this was our idea together. And you're like, I'm i'm not in. I just got married. I got this gig in Houston.
Speaker: Go for it. And so you were, I mean, I wrote down that phrase. You said helping people accomplish what feels impossible. To me, it felt impossible. But you were like the, you know, the the encourager of, dude, I think you should do it.
Speaker: And then in the early years, you were like, man, number one advocate, you jump in and guide trips, but but from afar, you were just continuing to be that encourager. You'd help problem solve, but you jump in, help you know get something unlocked. And then honestly, the the you know the area when I look back and see like, gosh, there was the entrepreneur, the one that like wanted to be on the front end.
Speaker: And that's where I was. And it kind of felt, we felt like there was this tension and it was a short stand. It was like six months. And I think the, you know, we look back it it's like Wayford couldn't afford two grown men. So financially it wasn't working.
Speaker: But now through this new lens, it's like it wasn't working because we were trying to sit in the same seat. And then when you... you know, rolled off and, and now you've been in a board role and advisor role, you know, a consultant role.
Speaker: It's like, it it's continued to thrive and flourish because you're, you're doing exactly that. And I know for me, like, I've always felt like you are my biggest fan. I've always felt like in your mind, there's nothing I can't do. Even though I bring you these big problems, I see myself as the guy in the mirror,
Speaker: you continue to breathe life into this idea, this vision. And i think in your mind, WayForward has not even scratched the surface of its potential, even though I see the day-to-day problems. would Would you, like when you look back, do you feel like provide some, some color on that from your side?
Speaker: Yeah, no, I mean, I think that that nails it. I, um yeah, the, the attempt in 2015 to dive in, know, you know true you know I mean, still it still plays out. I mean, just just a week ago, we we did a an offsite and did some planning.
Speaker: and as we went through, talked through some stuff, it's like, our operations guy looked at me. is like, hey, when you come back back from vacations, you're always so fired up and just doing all this stuff. And it wears me out.
Speaker: And I'm like, I i received that. Ironically, I'm just trying to help. Like, I come back sometimes and we're really busy. And I'm like, I just want to help you because I know you're overloaded. And anyway, like i can, I relate to.
Speaker: So was he telling you to go on more vacations? That's what I heard. I can solve the problem. You know, this, this um,
Speaker: I mean, a true talent for me is kind of big picture and details, big picture and details. And, um, I mean, it's funny, it's funny, the details that I will just miss sometimes I'll get, I'll be like, huh?
Speaker: I mean, it's happened with Utah. Like you'll, you'll say like, Oh yeah, well this thing didn't work. Cause this was like, huh, why did I catch that? I thought I was, I thought I was better at that. And, um,
Speaker: and then I don't think of myself as a big picture. I don't walk around every day thinking, I'm just a big picture guy. You know? Um, but, but anyway, I, I think like, so I'm probably not the best big picture guy and I'm not the best detail guy, but it's nice to have a guy around that can kind of like go between the two places and help bring perspective. I think that's where my, that's where I can really help, but I forget that all the time.
Speaker: I forget all the time. Just, um, So were the the topic was more of like um of like, how did that wiring affect the early days of WayForward? I mean, Todd, there were so many times I'm like, I could not do that with WayForward. And I think probably some folks were like, oh, you co-founded, did you ever think about it? I'm like, I mean, a little bit, but
Speaker: could not have done that. And so, i mean, I think like God had the right person in mind for the right seats in the right ways in the right order. um So I just continue to be glad that we get to do this thing together and that evolves like, right. So in the early days that looked like talking every day. And then I i wish that we could talk more these days, but circumstances in life and whatever, but I look forward to future and,
Speaker: maybe there's, we work closer again together and on something new. And, um, yeah. so So that's, it's easy to look back and see the Lord's provision in, i mean, in our friendship. And I remember the exact sitting there on the fire and it's like, dang, you know, you don't envision, it's just like, it's it's like marriage. Like you don't envision, you know, your best friend having to have a hard conversations or it not working out when it was your idea together.
Speaker: Yeah. It was like, I was thinking go part-time full-time, you know, and the Lord had different plans, but man, I also like, there would be no way forward without you and your generosity in time.
Speaker: The, the ways you stepped in and made huge sacrifices early on phone calls, meetings, the act in games. I mean, you know, early on God opens this like unforeseen door to run adventure orientations for a business school in Austin.
Speaker: And I couldn't have done it alone. i wasn I mean, I wasn't the contact. And I mean, almost squandered that relationship trying to be too spiritual. Another another story for another time. Although i did I did run into, I ran into Robin at a a funeral last year and I was like, hey, remember that time you told me to stop praying? And she...
Speaker: What'd she say? hu She didn't have any words. She was like, but you did did I was like, Hey, I understand. that was That was my bad. But I, you know, I'm not going to not give you a hard time.
Speaker: But I mean, you gave up weekends for us to just be together, run a retreat together. And I think i was actually having a conversation with Hadley last week talking about where you are on a scale Like how you, where you are in relation to somebody else is so important.
Speaker: And I think one thing you do better than maybe anybody I've been around is you can play every position on the field. Like you can sit in a detail seat and you can run it for a little bit. You can sit an op seat and you can run it for a little bit.
Speaker: And you did those and you got a firm, but the thing you do best is have your head above the clouds and can see. And you can certainly drop down, but man, you can you know you can relate to people. You can see over the horizon, but you're also not the biggest visionary. So when you're sitting next to a visionary, you just automatically think of yourself as an ops guy.
Speaker: That's why I could give you so much crap. Yeah. so Well, if I could, just for anyone listening, just because i you know this has been awesome listening guys too talk about this.
Speaker: We talk about maps that lie, right? Yeah. and In the book. Yeah. And I think that a map that's incomplete is often that a visionary looks a certain way, right? And so what I heard...
Speaker: Oftentimes, Alex's vision comes in from actually something operational. he He is getting his hands dirty with something and then the innovation flows from the conversations and showing up and creating value, right?
Speaker: There are other people that like, we're going to take this hill and they have this vision and they they don't they don't have a clue how they're going to get there. Those are different ways of the way that vision gets shaped and formed unique to the individual. And I see this all the time with entrepreneurs where they will put themselves...
Speaker: just like we do like i can't jump as high in middle school or i can't catch the ball as well like that there's some way that we're supposed to play a position um other than the way that we were actually made and so anyway i just love that that sort of got illuminated in and was that you're finding that uh in what you're doing now because that that is a you know just i think incredibly free the other lie here uh often is we're all trained to believe that is ah we see entrepreneurs grind, grind, grind, work, work, work. And we we've all been raised in this time and effort economy where we believe that we've got to outwork everyone. and you know, we got it. And the truth is, when you step out into entrepreneurship, we live in the world of results.
Speaker: And it requires faith and it requires, you know, no, your clients don't care if you spent 10,000 hours preparing their bid. They want to know what the bid is and are you going to be able to do what you said and deliver on time, you know, but we get trapped into these ideas that this is what it looks like. So anyway, I just appreciate y'all having that conversation because I got to just sit and watch these things go on that I think trap us.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I've come to the point in my career with youth sports to realize that i am I should never be a head coach. I think that I've won like three games as a head coach in Little League softball.
Speaker: And it's not for trying. I try really hard. Does that show up on your bio? Like three-game winner? a three-game winner. It's actually above co-founder WayForward, so i don't know what that stands for right now.
Speaker: Amen. Timber Grub Sports, three-game winner, way forward, co-founder. um No, but but like i just – I really like being an assistant coach.
Speaker: You know, I like to help the coach. I like to one-on-one with the players and encourage them. And um I think the next chapter is – Going back to some questions a few, a few questions ago, the next chapter for me is kind of figuring out what that looks like in a professional context as well.
Speaker: Yeah. and And that's so exciting. Like the best is yet to come that, you know, we may not be 30, like, ah you know, we were one day or 20, but,
Speaker: But man, thinking of like the next 20 years with you in a role that you don't have to pretend to be somebody else and don't have to bounce around. Like I also wonder, you know, were some of those early bouncing around like you did something for six months, you did it really well, but also it wasn't scratching the itch of who you really were.
Speaker: And so you jumped to another thing. And it's like, man, to to be able to to sit in that seat and also just kudos to you and Max for having the honest conversations of like, hey, this is really what I feel like I am. And God's called us to be together. Let's figure this out.
Speaker: Yeah. And know and it worked like like ah a word for, I joked about how Max said, you're the angry guy. like I'm so glad that he said that.
Speaker: And then a month or so later, i was like, you're right. What do we do? And he's like, we need to switch. he And I'm like, when? he's like, right now.
Speaker: I'm really? And we did. Right. So we switched and he, he's so good at like, he studies people very well. And like, he's, he's gotten to know me well enough, like, like draw it out of me, you know? And so there's, when he can see that the wheels are spinning, he's like, Hey, will you just tell us everything you're thinking?
Speaker: hey Um, you know, so anyway, kudos to him. Yeah. Yeah. Alex, can I go to something really like super tactical practical? I just, it's been burning my mind this whole conversation nearly.
Speaker: Can I? Yeah. Okay. So you're literally trip zero way forward, be where your boots are taking people out. Right. And then you come into the entrepreneurial, like, I mean, the, the, with the new business, right.
Speaker: And it sounds like the the rhythms were hard to keep. So I'm just i'm curious, like if you were to look back, because you're you're like, surely once you've been a guide and you've been, you know, it's so steeped in the way forward culture, right? That that doesn't happen, right? So for for us lay people, what did you learn through that? And how do we how do we how do we protect from getting pulled away from the rhythms?
Speaker: um You mean like the rhythms of being in the backcountry? Just being being where your boots are. It sounded like when you took the business, you guys were you were doing everything. You're all over. it I mean, it sounded like you were just grinding, grinding, grinding.
Speaker: How does one maintain rhythm? like what did you How do you connect those two?
Speaker: Well,
Speaker: that's a good question. I don't know. I think one of the reasons I still love to get out on trails, like i need so much help with being where my boots are.
Speaker: yeah You know, it, just our modern life and the distraction we're all aware of. And, and then the responsibilities on top of that and just all those things. I, and I think running it with running a business, you tend to think about,
Speaker: and then And then with the kind of some of the wiring stuff that I've talked about, I'm constantly kind of thinking about, well, what about, what about, what if, what if, what can we do with this? What can we do that? And, um ah you know, so very quickly, i am not where my boots are at all.
Speaker: And so i think, i mean, there's some silly practical stuff I've learned for me. Like, I don't need to work out because I need to stay in shape. I need to work out because if I don't, I get, it helps me get out of my head just to have some sort of,
Speaker: outside of my body activity. That's good. um And then I think it's, I mean, kids kids kind of make this like a a non-negotiable. Like if I want to be involved with my kids, I got to put the work away.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, it having full weekends of kid activities is kind of a ah forced, well, I got to be where my boots are now. So I'm at least getting like two days a week ah of I'm doing this right now.
Speaker: um And then I'm, I mean, I think in in my, in my life right now, I'm, I'm trying to, I mean, just very tactical. I'm trying to be in my office less.
Speaker: And then when I am there, I'm trying to like be more free to just, what what do people want to talk about? he um And I give myself like a b minus at that.
Speaker: It's a growth. oh It's a growing edge.
Speaker: Love that. Thank you. yeah so my question In summary, you're saying 50 trips, you don't have it figured out? Nope. Todd, you got it though, right? yeah love I think he spent more time in the backcountry than I have.
Speaker: It's because you're a visionary. Feet on the desk. I'm never going to let this one go. It's like you always talk about me interrupting people. so Oh, go man. I've worked so much crap for him over the years.
Speaker: Hey, what you been up to? Feet kicked up? Just spitballing, throwing things at a whiteboard? Been doing that all day? Are you at a standing desk so you can't put your feet up? i I am at a standing desk, yeah. Don't worry. I got a chair over there. Oh, you can't see it. A little stool to put your feet up on Hey, so I want to...
Speaker: ah you know, as we, as we land the plane, like, you know, throughout all of this, bringing people into an experience in the back country has been something you've been passionate about. I mean, you spent several years guiding guide team leader, leadership roles at wilderness ranch.
Speaker: Certainly we're, you know, we're on the forefront of the idea of way forward and and getting it started. And then still now with three kids, you know, elder at a church,
Speaker: job, like you're, you invite people to go into the back country every year. And i have sat around, you know, board tables and, you know, been a part of conversations where, you know, tears in your eyes, like you've talked about the experience here and are still as passionate about it as I think I've ever seen you. Like, why, why do you care so much about people from Houston, Texas, getting out of the armpit of Texas and,
Speaker: getting into a place where it's not just the mountains, but like, what is it about going on trail on a way forward like experience you're so excited about?
Speaker: Well, first I'd just like to acknowledge that I did catch that armpit of Texas reference to Houston. So I acknowledge, I acknowledge that. um Hey, i'll I'll counteract that while you think with ah a hook them horns, you know, what a game on Saturday, huh? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: surprising. um Well, I mean, the short answer, like, because of what, because of the work God did in me, I just want this to be available to more people.
Speaker: I mean, that that moment of, I mean, my my time at Wilderness was transformational. I mean, I went in to that phase of life thinking, well, adulthood will look like this.
Speaker: And then after a few years of doing summers at wilderness, it was like, well, it could look like any of this, which was both discomforting and completely calming at the same time.
Speaker: he So, um, you know, i think, um I think, so for me, like going back to the back country is always a reminder of that, you know, it's, it's,
Speaker: it's it's with It's Ebenezer in a way, right? Like it's just remembering. And um
Speaker: so, and then I mean, I think another, so another big reason I've never thought of myself as more than an ops guy is because I hate sales.
Speaker: In the early days, Todd could, I could listen to him selling a trip. I'm like, I don't know how he does that. I mean, probably sitting in the little office next door to Terry And, and, you know, Todd's on the phone and I'm up there like learning how to input checks or something. I don't know. And Todd's like, well, why wouldn't you go? Well, if you don't go, when, when will you go? i mean, and if you, well, it'll make you better if you go. I mean, it'll make every week you're at home better if you go.
Speaker: And, you know, when I asked someone to go on the trail, like, you can't go. Okay, cool. Yeah. I'm just like, I hate that. I hate filling a trip. I hate all that. um But I know the value. I know it's so great.
Speaker: and it's And I want that for the people who go on the trail. I want that for the guides at WayForward. Everyone there, it's transformational. um And I think I had a moment on the trail probably four or five years ago with Corey Christopherson.
Speaker: And Corey's like, I'm just going to invite people. I'm going to go on on a sign for a trip every year. And it hit me like a ton of bricks. I'm like, huh. he Why am I not doing that?
Speaker: And I'm just going to do it and invite and I'm going ask people and I'm going to way less pushy than Todd because I can't, but I'm going to keep asking.
Speaker: want to go? Yeah. I've got a Todd AI that I'm working on for sales calls, filling trips. so
Speaker: it's's It's remarkable. You're remarkable. but but but no man i Everybody I know that knows you absolutely loves you.
Speaker: Like you are one of those guys that ah you're so likable because you care about other people. And when you care about other people, that they wanna be around you.
Speaker: You are more interested in them. You are more interested in knowing about them than you are about them knowing about you. And it makes you so approachable and people love to be around you. And and I'm one of those, like you have impacted my life. You are on the short list of people that have had such a profound impact on my life. ah From, you know, the gosh, what did you refer to me as when you were my boss at Wilderness? oh meathead the yeah Meathead is the word you used. Yeah. Yeah. From the days you loved me as a meathead ah to, you know, believing in me more than I believe in myself. Like it's been, it's been a true treat. the The friendship that the Lord has fostered has been a highlight. Getting to do this with you has been a highlight. And, Watching you grow and flourish as a husband, as a leader, as a dad. It's just incredible. I love you. Thanks for the the time today to have a conversation. thank Thanks for the laughter, the tears.
Speaker: We said laughter and tears. You know, you knocked you 12 minutes in. I'm glad it's been less tearful than I thought it might be. yeah um Well, if...
Speaker: Yeah, if I may elaborate on yeah the meat the meathead comment. Yeah, because you haven't. I think we should just leave it as it is. You have it you certainly haven't thrown me in the dirt enough. but Yeah, fair enough. Keep loading it.
Speaker: I've got a plan for how I'm going to save some face with it. Okay, good, good. Yeah, I mean, I took a break between my second summer guiding and my guide team leader year, and Todd was a first year in that gap.
Speaker: And I was around enough to be like, Todd is kind of intimidating and scary. And he was, i mean, that was like full on jock days, right? i mean. True, true. Right.
Speaker: Yeah. so And, you know, Stephen, we've unpacked some of my background enough to know, like there was some, and you know, some insecurity or whatever. i was like And I knew I loved wilderness. I knew I wanted to go back.
Speaker: It was, it was a big leadership. opportunity and and it's kind of scary and my one of my biggest fears was how am i gonna get a guy like todd pinkston who will be a second year and probably the like one of the key people there how will he buy into whatever i'm selling um and then and then that summer i mean i met what has become one of my best friends and um Certainly there was transformation in Todd Pinkston's life from first year to second year.
Speaker: um But Todd, I mean, I also found someone who is so fun, so up for yes, here that that is more, that is so attractive. And yeah,
Speaker: One of the reasons why I always said yes when you called to say, will you guide this trip with me? Yeah, let's go do it. um So, yeah, I do remember our debrief of the summer when I said i was worried you were a bit of a meathead.
Speaker: I'll always remember standing around a pickup truck and having that conversation. Oh, yeah. You know. um Yeah, I've had many counseling sessions where that's been brought up. The wounds of beef.
Speaker: But but but ah but i mean, the final I'll say, I also remember, I don't know, probably a week or two later, like looking across the circle and being like, i would like to work with that man for the rest of my life.
Speaker: Feeling mutual. Love you, dude. Love you too. Hey, I'm just going to throw it out there. We haven't guided a trip together in a while. Yeah. Work sometimes gets in the way of pleasure. Yeah.
Speaker: You know, if there was enough interest, it could be Alex 2027 trip together in the mountains with, you know, an open invite to whoever wants to go.
Speaker: Let's go. I've already heard that i need to spend more time away from the office. that that And I miss being on trail with you. Yeah, same. Come on.
Speaker: Hey, man, thank you for your time today. Thanks for the honesty and conversation and just the the opportunity to think back and man reflect over what the Lord's done in our friendship and what the Lord's done just through the the skills he's given you, the passion he's given you, and the opportunity to to walk alongside of you in that.
Speaker: I love you. I'm grateful for you. Thank you, guys. Love you guys. yeah Thanks, Alex. alex
Speaker: Oh
