Transcript
Speaker: Hello, hello. Welcome to another episode of Midlife's Crisis. I'm Zach. I'm joined again by Charles. How's going, Zach? That's pretty good. you know, new time, new place as of last week.
Speaker: May or may not have almost forgotten, but we're here.
Speaker: We're here in our respective recording booths ah on what could be concept-filled magic podcast because i think ah both of us did not get a whole lot of magic in in the last week or so. That's true. We're pretty game-light.
Speaker: Yeah. Game light. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But that just means we're thought heavy and that's totally fine. Wow. Moss doesn't grow on a rolling stone or something, something, something.
Speaker: Indeed. Something. take Yeah. So for all the listeners out there, brain's brain's a little foggy and the schools start back up and ah the brain cells that I had remaining are are on the their last legs. So bear with me here a little bit.
Speaker: But the good news is magic doesn't require a lot of thinking, right? You just you just play, you don't to really think much. Math is for blockers, and no i'm not I'm not attacking.
Speaker: I'm just here to group hug. Let's do it. Oh, gosh, yeah. Group hug, that is a topic, too. But anyway, let's ah well let's get through the to the few games we did get in between the both of us. And um after that, probably a little bit deck on deck, and then probably maybe some concept talking, because like I said, it's a little light week.
Speaker: But a light week just means that we can get in on, i don't know, some stuff that's bugging us, some stuff that we like. you know I know we've got plenty of conversation topics that I think are evergreen in the space of people who play Magic a lot. So think even as we talk through the games, we'll probably come up with something that we've been itching to get off our chest that we haven't had a chance to because we've had too many games. And this week might just be the time.
Speaker: Yeah. Now, let me tell you about white. I think this whole color should be eliminated. No, I'm just kidding. Whoa. I meant the magic color, magic color. Anyway, so do you want to kick off with your one game or you want me to kick off?
Speaker: Sure. I'm happy to talk about my game. So my game I got in as you were leaving the store that we both sometimes play at. I got there and it was packed. It's usually. Yeah, it was crazy. Yeah, it's usually full. They're usually.
Speaker: uh plenty of people playing but it was actually packed there was only one chair to be had in the place uh and it was at a table where the pod is pretty insular so i didn't i asked them if they were looking for a fourth and got some strange looks which i expected because i've seen them play before so i wasn't that bothered by it but Let's pause right there. and yeah this This grinds my gears. All right. So I figured, Hey, why don't we, we should do some segways as we go. Are you cool with that?
Speaker: Absolutely. This is the time for it. Um, that bothers me a lot. So at that particular store, there is like a segment of people that are very insular. Nobody gets in. was about to say nobody gets out, but I, I mean, I don't know, but like nobody gets in.
Speaker: And on more than one occasion, I've had to tell a new person, like the new person will sit down. I'll be like, Hey, you looking for commander? They'll sit down and there'll be, you know, the two of us and they'll be like, Oh, well, why don't we see if any of them want to join? I'm like, yeah.
Speaker: So here's the thing, you know? And I'm like, and it sucks that I have to do that. Right. Like that. I have to be like, yeah, they're not going to, they're not going to, they're not going to play with us. They're not going to do anything. They're not going to, you know,
Speaker: And here's my beef with all that, right? You are entitled to play with who you want to play. But I think, tell me if I'm, tell me this is a hot take or not, but if you go to a store to play, you are now in the public sphere and you should be accepting of other players. That's my opinion.
Speaker: Okay. If you want that insular play, you should play in somebody's house. i I, hear you. Okay. But let me, Let me slightly defend Insular players.
Speaker: Okay. because there's Okay, so I went to... i think I think I talked about this on the podcast a while ago. I went to Atlanta... I think it was Atlanta Comic-Con or alanta Atlanta Magic-Con.
Speaker: ah No, this was Vegas, sorry. I went to Vegas Magic-Con and had a great time, but I think the first table I sat down at, ah the guys were kind of weird about it. i sat down and they were like... hey oh, I guess this guy's going to join us. We were waiting for Jeremy, but okay, shuffle up, dude. And I was like, oh, if you guys are waiting for somebody, that's cool.
Speaker: I'll just head out. He's like, Thanks, bro. Have good games later. and I was like, all right, that was kind of weird. And so I remember thinking that was my first experience at the open play area. And I was worried that that was going to be the tone of the weekend. Turns out that was the only weird experience I had out of, I played more than 20 games in the open play area. It was great with that one exception.
Speaker: And that's not what happened here. i think for me, so you've played at that store more than I've played there. Yeah. I can just tell by... the things I overhear them joke about, that it's a pod where I would not be super cool with all the things that were said in good fun.
Speaker: And that doesn't mean that it's unwelcoming or that it's like offensive. It's just like, it may be unwelcoming and it may be offensive, but what I'm sure of is it's not super for me.
Speaker: So when that was the only chair left, I went and I said, hey, are you guys looking for a fourth? But I kind of knew they weren't looking for me as a fourth. And so when they said, oh, we just started, blah, bla blah. I was pretty quick to say, cool, no worries. I actually walked around to see if there were any other chairs. There were literally no other chairs. So I wound up coming back and sitting there.
Speaker: But I like pulled my play mat clearly away. from You know, you know, you put the four play mats in the middle. to i I dragged mine to the far corner of the table. I was like, hey, just to make it. I didn't talk to them at all. i was But I made it very visually clear, hey, I'm laying out a play mat so I can work on a deck while you guys play.
Speaker: You do your thing, I'll do my thing, and at my earliest convenience, I will take my leave. ah And they weren't, like, they didn't say anything rude about it, they just played, it was actually fine. And, I don't know, like,
Speaker: Those guys seem to know each other, and they seem to like playing at this store, and they seem to like mainly playing with each other. And it seems to be the case that most of the time, they have four.
Speaker: This time, they had three, so there was a chair left. You know, maybe if I pressed it and I really wanted to get in the game, I could have talked them into letting me join their pod. That wouldn't have been fun for anyone.
Speaker: I don't feel like I missed out by not getting to play with them. But I also don't feel like they... push me out of the store either. So like, I don't know, like, I don't know. They like, it could just be a circle that's been together for a long time and has a lot of jokes that they don't feel like explaining to new people.
Speaker: And they're, they just, or maybe they're shy or I don't know. I like, I, I feel like magic should be a place where kind of weirdos can play too. And it just seemed like a pot of weirdos who maybe didn't feel like interacting with a normie.
Speaker: or learning whether somebody was a normie or a weirdo. So like I don't mind that that much. i i i i salute and I appreciate ah your your your respectfulness, Charles.
Speaker: I guess I feel more strongly about it all right for two reasons. One, and this is something that you had no idea you had no um reference point for. And it doesn't really matter per se, but there's at least one instance where This is such a non-sequitur, but like basically we were waiting for people to show up for commander and it was like three of us and some guy that I've never seen in the store before. I don't think I've seen him since.
Speaker: Uh, we got struck up a conversation about ah dark souls, which is a video game that people feel very passionate about and I don't particularly care for. And I was kind of riling him up a little bit, you know, just kind of of being like, yeah, it's not a good game. And then like him, he would just get more and more huffy in it all good natured. But yeah,
Speaker: you know, he, you know, he, he was a, let's say he was a weirdo, you know, and I mean that in the best tar type of a way. um and he had problems with voice, like voice volume control. Right. So it was getting very loud, but not in an aggressive way, just loud. Right.
Speaker: And we got like real, like, kind he one of the One of the people as part of that that group got real confrontation with us about it, about the volume of his voice and all that.
Speaker: And it just kind of left a bad taste in my mouth. But the the I guess the second thing about that, which is irrespective, is like once again, I just, i don't know, I just have this mentality of like, if you are playing in a public space that's open to the public,
Speaker: There should be some degree of taking in the public, right? And especially like I get really particular with that when it comes to like new players too. It was like, you know, we don we don't have any as magic players. We have no responsibility to increase like wizard's share price or whatever. We have no responsibility for increasing the revenue.
Speaker: but I do feel a certain responsibility as a, like, even without this podcast or whatever else is like an ambassador for the game. And like, I think you should treat, especially new players, you should treat with them welcomingly, you know, because you might only get one chance with a new player. You literally like he, they might buy something. They might learn the game. They might show to a store. And if they have one bad in like occurrence, they could just never come back and never play the game again. That's it. And I don't know. I think that is a big tragedy. So I just I guess I just I have like an abrasive reaction to like this whole ethos.
Speaker: All right, we're back. We had a little technical error there, but long story short, if you're my pain is if you're going to go to a public place to play, you should be reasonably accommodating two players than that public space.
Speaker: but that is i agree with my take. I'm less up. I'm less open to the idea of being rude to a player ah who seems new or is seeming to genuinely ask to join a game.
Speaker: But just to be clear, like that wasn't my experience with them. I'm not. No, no, no. Your experience with them wasn't that. And if it was that I I'm not down with that. But like I said, this was just a,
Speaker: I kind of asked the question knowing the answer I would get. I got that answer. I wound up having to sit there anyway. They were chill about it. I was chill about it. We just kind of moved on. Not my part. No big deal.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, i'm just i there's a little bit of a mountain out of a molehill here for me, but I'm just using them as an example to make an overall point. Yeah, mean we've I mean, I think we've talked on this podcast before about a store that has basically the vibe of this pod that I will occasionally still go to because I really want to play Magic.
Speaker: yeah again, it's like, look, they're allowed to be weirdos. And if a lot of the people there enjoy each other's company in that weird way, in that weird space... I like, I don't know. What does it mean that I don't like it? And I wish they weren't like that.
Speaker: Probably not a lot. It probably just means I shouldn't go there and it probably should be fine that it exists for other players. And I will say i wound up going there among the first times I played magic And I didn't know any better. And I thought this is weird, but it's okay. And now that I have better frame of references, I'm like, all right, it's weird and it's less okay. But, you know, I did play there. So it's not like they kicked me out or were so rude to me that I had to leave. I just, you know, I was just like, these are, this isn't my, this isn't my crew.
Speaker: Yeah. So, you know. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So that, that, that, that's my little spiel on that. I guess if you're listening to this, try to you know, if you're in a public space, try to welcome players regardless if they're new or not.
Speaker: And I guess back to regular scheduled programming. So tell me about this game you played. Yeah, so i I put together that deck I was talking about, the ah Tuvasa the Sunlit yes um Mutate deck.
Speaker: So as expected, it was kind of a hodgepodge. It's a lot of enchantments, but also as many mutate creatures as I could find in the colors. I'd say it performed about like that.
Speaker: Like I got to a point where If I'd had a lot more enchantments, I could have been really cooking. There were a few cards I was waiting on that I didn't quite get in the deck. I decided that since I don't like straight enchantress decks, that this deck would not have any cards that drew a card when I cast an enchantment outside of the commander.
Speaker: Okay. So there are a couple of enchantments that let you draw when you deal combat damage. There are some enchantments that draw when they enter, some auras that draw when they enter. And then I was trying to play...
Speaker: Teferi's Ageless sin Insight to double that card draw. i I will put in, but hadn't put in that time. Reed Richards, smartest man. The first time you draw a card each turn, except the first card you draw during each year draw steps, you draw four instead.
Speaker: So I was trying to get the value of the draw that way by amplifying the one card draw from Tuvasa. okay But yeah, i had had fun with it. The game ended... um know. it It actually didn't end that early. It just ended in a kind of anticlimactic turn featuring, I guess, my card of the week because nothing in my deck really did all that much.
Speaker: It was one of the... Oh, you know what? I do want to talk about this after after we're done with game review, though. So card of the week was one of the one of the pod's commanders, Hidatsugu and Kairi.
Speaker: legendary creature, ogre, demon, dragon. It's a five, four with flying. When it enters the battlefield, draw three cards and put two from your hand on top of your library in any order. When it dies, exile the top card of your library. Target opponent loses life equal to its mana value.
Speaker: If it's an instant or sorcery card, you may cast it without paying its mana cost.
Speaker: So basically clones. Okay. And you know, 20 minute turn and then we lost. So mercifully I got killed first. So I guess that was slightly better. I got to think about another deck during some of the rest of the game, but mercifully I got killed first. Yeah. Like I think, you know, we've, we've talked about clones a fair amount, but in particular the like, I bleep. So this was a case where I didn't have fun, but I do feel like I learned that I need to be a little more,
Speaker: aware of what a commander does and think through what's the broken version of this. Like there's a, there's a game, there's a gameplay show called the worst possible commander show. And the premise of it is they tell you their deck at the beginning. And part of explaining their deck is explaining the worst possible thing their deck can do.
Speaker: And this game taught me or reminded me that that's, I should think that way a little bit more, even in casual games. So we'll we'll come back to that after the rest of the okay gameplay talk. But yeah.
Speaker: That was my game. How about you? Oh, well, let me let me ask more about this, actually. So so he's cloning Hidatsegu over and over again? Is that what you're saying? Yeah. so it's so So let me just read the relevant parts here.
Speaker: So because when it enters, he draws three cards and puts two on top and then they order, he was basically having the cards that he drew create legendary cards copies or Sorry, create copies that weren't not legendary.
Speaker: okay So they would immediately die and trigger this again. and just like the Aang, there's a Bant Aang commander that like when it enters, you look at the top four cards of your library and you can play one of them for free.
Speaker: And I think the popular build of that was to play four mana clones and that would also have that ability. So you try to just chain together as many free casts of Aang as you can.
Speaker: That was kind of the deal with this one. And then it was kind of burning for each one as well. That makes sense. So the play pattern was like, you try to stack your library in your hand with enough cards that you can... Because you get to you get to you get some card manipulation. You draw three, but you also can put something from hand back too. So if you have a draw engine going and you can...
Speaker: kind of continually choose what's on top of your library, you can just kind of make a clone every turn, but sorry, every instance of your commander dying, and you can basically just kind of like loop through until you either win or, you know, do enough damage to make the table die from boredom. So that's that's about how it played out.
Speaker: again i i feel like my takeaway was i like that's kind of written on the card you should know if some if a commander does something when it dies or if a commander does something when it enters and it's in blue like one of the things that might be happening is clones so yeah it's just like yeah i know what you're saying thats it's it's a tough call because like that is like a like a master's level like Matt level of understanding commander is like being able to look at commander and like, be like, Oh yeah, this is going to be, this could be broken. I have to watch out for this because not every, kind I'm still, I still struggle with because like not every commander, um on its face appears like broken, but like, yeah, now that I just happen to look at the ang you're referring to and I'm looking at the ang and I'm like, Oh, now that you say, yeah, I see how somebody is going to break this and it's going to be miserable. Like,
Speaker: So yeah, when i when I was leaving the pod that you entered, i saw the Hidatsugu I was like, oh, that's cool. I wonder how that deck works. Like it didn't even immediately dawn on me what what they were going to do with it. Yeah, and it's funny. Like it seemed like a pod where I guess I couldn't tell if all three of the other guys knew each other, but certainly two of them knew each other. And I think based on the games they had played before, one of them was urging the Hidatsugu player to play that deck.
Speaker: And I guess it's a deck he doesn't play all the time because maybe he knows it's not like the most fun play pattern. But, you know, he was talked into playing it. He certainly didn't mind playing it, but I respect that he doesn't just play it all the time.
Speaker: So, yeah, I mean, I got to see what it did. You know, I get it. Hey, look, I had you guys over to my house once and I took a 15 minute storm turn and one of our pod mates killed me and I thanked him because I needed to go.
Speaker: So I, too, am guilty of of the sins of the sins of the storm player. So I get it. I've gotten pretty, I'm getting pretty good. Every year I get better and better at like being able to figure out ahead of time if the deck I'm building is going to do that. And I'm like, nope, nope.
Speaker: It's just nope. But yeah, so I might be semi-responsible for that game that you played because the two games I played with that same three, that pod prior,
Speaker: ah Yeah, won both of them. So they might've been feeling a little like, well, we gotta win one. is there anything else you want to talk about with that game before we move on? Nah. Okay.
Speaker: So my first game with that same pause, the other three guys was the debut of my Marin all creatures deck.
Speaker: And it went, it went really well. There's a I think my main takeaway from this is like, I, you know, there's just something about playing a. Stapley meat and potatoes commander every now and then to be like, just just to remind you that like, oh yeah, like the good commanders, the deck just works like.
Speaker: You know, it's not always like a struggle to get the deck work like this. Marin deck. It just works. And it didn't do anything flashy. Like and there's no card of the week that I can really pull from.
Speaker: i don't have, you know, too many surprise. I don't have like every Marin staple in there, but I don't have too many surprises either. But it just kind of did the thing. I just pooped out a lot of creatures. I got board wiped once or twice.
Speaker: But since nobody exiled my graveyard, i just brought everything back. And I kind of just closed the game out with... I had Lumra, which has always been a house in every Marin-type deck I've built it in. But Lumra is a four green-green legendary creature elemental bear.
Speaker: uh vigilance reach when uh lumers uh powers toughness equal to number of lands you control and when he enters you mill four then return all land cards from your but graveyard to the battlefield tapped so he just does everything maron wants it to do he fills the graveyard brings all the lands out of the graveyard um he gets huge and then as because he's huge you can use him as sack fodder like i have a variety of ways like sack creatures for drawing cards for their for their power so he's really good for that And then I put, I have two copies of Valga Valterra reader. So he has, and then I got those two cards out and I just kind of beat everybody down with those two cards.
Speaker: Like there was no like sacrifice shenanigans really. It was just like, well, I'm just going to beat you guys down with these two cards. And that more or less was it I, you know, it's like, i think I'm, I'm happy with it. Like it, it didn't feel overpowered. Like literally all anybody had to do that entire game was to exile my graveyard. And that was, that would have been it Like,
Speaker: It would have been bye-bye, but nobody did. So I just kept getting tons of value, even through board wipes. And yeah, i think it's good. I had fun with it. Nice.
Speaker: The only other thing I guess to of note is i was i there's four cards on order for it, and I think three out of those four are those fleshbag Marauder types.
Speaker: So we'll see how the deck feels when it gets a little bit more mean than it is currently. I did have the opportunity to bring out a Cursed Marauder once or twice. And I like didn't because I was like, this is kind of mean to like keep bringing this guy out.
Speaker: But I did bring him out when I felt like it was necessary. You know, I had somebody swing a Voltron commander at me and I like, well, okay, we got to reanimate a cursed Marauder again because I don't want to get hit for, you know, 1818 trample, you know.
Speaker: But yeah, it's it's good. I don't have many yeah other notes on it other than it's it's cool. Yeah, I feel like Marin is, I mean, like I said, I started playing after probably Marin's heyday.
Speaker: But I think that was one of the cards that I've seen people react to with an, oh, Marin, I know what that does. ah Kind of knowing, you know, reaction. And I appreciate that. Like, I appreciate ah seeing kind of the OGs in action.
Speaker: It's good to get a feel for them at least a time or two. Yeah, i I was thinking about this. It's like, what was I more scared of? You know, back in the day, Marin was scary for sure. But like in the Golgari family, what what would really put the fear in me is a Gitrog monster or a Skullbriar. Those are the two that I was like, oh boy, like a good Skullbriar deck is so frustrating to deal with because you can never like seem to get rid of those the dang counters.
Speaker: But yeah, Marin is still, she still hangs in there. And like I said, I, I still think I consider a mid-level thing at this point. Like I don't consider her like, like it's not like sitting next down to a Jota, right? It's not like, you know, sitting down to like, like one of the modern type of commanders.
Speaker: Interesting. I would have said I think it's kind of like sitting down to a Jota, but maybe not as strong. I feel like if you see a Marin kind of know what's coming, right? Yeah, you know what but i mean but I mean by that is like how fast the game is going to go, like how tough it will be to deal with and all that. like To me, like i will I will sit in front of three Marins before I sit so in front of a Jota. Yeah.
Speaker: Well, that's fair. Yeah. That's my, you know, or like, or, uh, a Mirim, like Sentinel worm or, you know, i'm just, I think it's like these other hot commanders of like more modern developed commanders. Edgar is kind of like that. I think too. Uh, who was that?
Speaker: Edgar Markov can be like, Oh yeah. Edgar. Yeah. Yeah. Even though he's an older one, but he just, the eminence just is evergreen. Yeah. You kind of know what's coming. Yeah. Uh, in a good, you stole a deck, same thing. so Then the second game is, i just can't get away from it because I think it's going to be a new staple mine, is Itazora.
Speaker: The auction is a commander. After the Marin victory, I was like, yeah, you you guys sound like you guys need like maybe a little pick-me-up here. um was like, what how about you guys, we'll do some auctioning. So I pulled out Itazora.
Speaker: The pod had a great time. They loved it They bid their life way down. I got to see somebody bid pretty high to prevent another player from casting a board wipe that was in the pool.
Speaker: even though So he bid in order so nobody else could get that board wipe. I was like, yeah, that's a cool little moment, you know.
Speaker: Yeah. So it was, it was cool. Like basically the the it's, is it slop people bid away that the, the cards are generically good. Like the reason, and then going have to as augury as my car of the week. We've never talked about it and it's a great opportunity to talk about it. Um,
Speaker: It's a eight mana sorcery, six blue blue. um You exile the top eight cards of your library. You put a land card from of them on the battlefield. And until end of turn for each non-land card ah car type, you may cast a spell that type but i'm from among the exiled cards without paying this mana cost.
Speaker: And I just realized reading this card that it doesn't work in this deck. I got to take it out. But anyway, so, uh, you know, somebody bid like, sorry, uh, explain please.
Speaker: Yeah. So it deserves triggers on upkeep. And so like, say, you know, one of my opponents gets this, they bid for it and they get it. They'll do out of the top eight. They'll put the land out.
Speaker: Right. And it says till end of turn, you may cast a card for each type, meaning that it won't ignore timing restrictions. Oh, wow. Yeah, so that means they would the only thing they would be able to cast is the instants that are in that pool.
Speaker: So I gotta switch this card out. That's interesting. Yeah, just realized I like reading it. Oh, that's... Well... But hold on. I think you were just saying one of the moments you liked from the game was when someone had to bid high to keep someone else from casting a board wipe.
Speaker: could Yeah, but the only thing... But someone might have to outbid you so you don't get that. Oh, I can't bid. I never get the bid. But whatever doesn't get chosen, you get to put to hand, right?
Speaker: Yeah. I get to put one of the remaining two cards to hand. Yes. Yeah. Like I wonder, I don't think this is something well, you know, let me tell you, let you talk more about the deck, but I don't, yeah, I have a followup. Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah, somebody could bid to prevent me from having it, but I'm an not just all agree is like, it's a really good card, but it's a lot worse when you're not casting it for free.
Speaker: Yeah, that's fair. So I could leave it in there, but I don't want to leave it there because I don't want there to be confusion of people bidding on it, thinking that they're going to get the value off of it. So I just got to swap it out. Yeah, it makes sense. But it's still really good card. It's still my card of the week. It's still good. But anyway, yeah, so so kind of the general flow of this deck is like, I get the commander out as fast as possible.
Speaker: People auction away. Their life totals get less and less because they're bidding on it. And then other game actions are happening. you know, people are hitting each other and stuff. And then usually it kind of gets to the point where it's like, down to the wire i have the most life usually and everyone's pretty pretty banged up and then that's when i just kind of come out with a closer like a finish or so in this deck i i played a um i had a cityscape leveler which is an eight mannna trample eight eight and when it when you cast it or when it attacks you just destroy up a target permanent and the the controller gets a tap power stone and i had that on the battlefield and then i just dropped down a city on fire and hit the remaining guy for 24.
Speaker: You know, like, so it's like, i just kind of let everybody bid themselves down. But what I like about it is that it's a real challenge for me to overcome the value that my opponents are getting because my remaining opponent had, he got a free sunbirds invocation off of me.
Speaker: And that, that card was doing work. Are you familiar with that one? I can read that one as well. Yeah, if you don't mind. Yeah, so Sunbird's Invocation is one of my favorite enchantments. I don't play much because it's in modern commander, it's kind of hard, but it's a Sunbird's Invocation is five and a red enchantment. Whenever you cast a spell from your hand, reveal the top X cards of your library where X is that spells mana value.
Speaker: You may cast a spell amount of mana value X or less from among those cards revealed this way, put the rest on the bottom. So, you know, he got that. So that means so he was just like getting value like crazy. He was building up so fast. Like it was really it was it was an uphill battle to like win that game because he got a sunburst for like eight life or whatever, which I think is a great deal.
Speaker: so yeah, I like this deck a lot. It's it's it's slop, but it's not, you know, ah part of it is like playing against my own deck, right? Like my own tools are being used against me in a way, you know, which is kind of fun.
Speaker: Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah, I've seen this deck in action once. It's fun. Yeah, there's no trickery. Like, i like you get that you get the spell. I can't get it back from you. and Like, there's no, you know, is it you know go for it.
Speaker: But yeah, those are the two games I had. So, you ready? You want to do some deck on deck? Yeah, let's do it. All right. Oh, wait, I did want to follow up just briefly. yeah One thing, and again, because of the you've described the way that you've built the deck and that you really have built it just as good stuff, let's see if I can entice people to bid their life total down and then close them out in the end. ye But I do wonder if their space or maybe a future incarnation of this deck, you would have some cards that maybe they don't benefit your opponents, but they clearly benefit you enough that your opponent would have to bid. Oh, but I guess your opponents bid against each other, right? You don't bid.
Speaker: bid. they could just talk amongst themselves and say, hey, one of us has to bid something for this one, so we get it out of his hand. All right, so... yeah so I guess thinking it through, that doesn't even make sense as an avenue. Yeah. Kind of the way I put, I figured, the mental way ive I put the closers in the deck is I put X spells as the closers so that my opponents wouldn't want to bid on them.
Speaker: Like you feel free to cat cast my crackle of power for zero, right? You can do that. You can do that. So that's kind of like where a lot of my closers are. So I like crackle of power, Jaya's immolating Inferno.
Speaker: I think one or two other ones where like I put them in there. They're like my closers that my opponents are not going to want. Essentially is what it is. But, you know, there's nothing stopping somebody from getting i i had it in my hand. I'm waiting for it to show up on a bid one day, but I'm going to spoil it to to you and my listeners.
Speaker: But I have Emrakul, the promised end in there. um That's the one that you steal in a post turn. So um it's in there, you know, like I can get domed with this thing and there's nothing I can do about it, you know.
Speaker: Yeah, i don't know. like i I do want it to be generally a deck full of good stuff that people want, and there's no trickery behind It it is just genuinely good stuff. And I'm going to try and win too, but I'm going to have that uphill battle of like you know facing my opponents who are getting free value off my deck, which I kind of like.
Speaker: Yeah, it sounds like a cool puzzle. Yeah. But yeah, I guess let's move on to decks on deck. I've been talking for a while, so why don't you hit me up with the deck that you're working on? Yeah, it's an interesting um interesting scenario for this week. So i am hoping that we are able to get a homerew ah sorry a home game in this weekend.
Speaker: And we've been talking a little bit about our pod dynamics. And I think I'm at the point where i enjoy building decks for game night.
Speaker: So I think my my preferred mode of play is I put together something silly but sorry again for the technical issues guys is it's it's me because i'm moving my mic uh but charles you were just beginning to talk about pod dynamics yeah so as i look forward to hopefully having a home game i think i'm coming to the realization about our current home pod that like the level of the decks is just above what i'm used to building for game nights so i think I don't know, I've got well over 100 decks at this point. I can't stop, won't stop building them. I enjoy building them. And I think my favorite thing about Game nights is about game Night is like putting together a deck, ah hopefully with a silly or interesting theme, but that's still functional, and playing that and being competitive. you know Sometimes I win, hopefully I get to you know contribute to the game, i have a good time that way. But i think I'm realizing that those decks that I put together, like this Tuvasa deck,
Speaker: and they're not really strong enough for our home pod. So my deck on deck is I'm trying to build a competitive deck, uh, for the home game, but I kind of want to build it now. Like I have a couple of competitive decks that I could maybe play, but I feel like tuning an already pretty strong deck is less interesting to me than building a deck from scratch. Like I've got so many cards sitting around. It feels like an accomplishment to get some of them in a deck box and out of binders or whatever. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: So I kind of like to do it that way. So along those lines, the deck on deck I'm building, I haven't decided yet who the commander is going to be. It's either going to be Fire Lord Azula, the good scary one.
Speaker: Oh boy. Okay. Or Mei and Zuko. So they are both one blue, red blue black, red. yeah I'll read Mei and Zuko. She is a, they are legendary creature, human, noble ally, three, five with firebending three.
Speaker: You may cast ally spells and art artifact spells as though they had flash. So I'm trying to think, do I have enough good Artifacts Matters stuff that I could build a strong deck from that? I think the answer is probably yes. I might have to be a little more careful about how I do it.
Speaker: And then, of course, the other option is Firelord Azula. Known thug, as it were. Firelord yeah zo Yeah, this is a good example of like put Fire Lord Azula against a Marin deck, you know, like, well, like I think the Marin deck would do okay.
Speaker: I know. Well, so Fire Lord Azula. Okay, so Fire Lord Azula one blue, black, red legendary creature, human noble firebending to whenever you cast a spell while Fire Lord Azula is attacking, copy that spell. You may choose new targets for the copy. She's a four, four.
Speaker: So If you can get that online and cracking, it's pretty good. Copying your spells, pretty good. So i have I have a good feeling for how I... like i did I put together a Fire Lord of Duel list of just Avatar cards.
Speaker: That deck is not good, but that's what I would consider like the deck I was describing. like It's got a restriction, but I can take it to a pod and it might contribute. I played that deck and had fun with it. I don't think I would do that at our home game.
Speaker: So I think I could step it up and make it interesting. But yeah, I kind of want to do Mayanzuko because it's a less popular commander, so I think it would be a little more fun to work with. They work really well together, obviously, because Mayanzuko gives your ally spells and your artifact spells flash.
Speaker: So obviously in a Fire Lord Azula deck, that'd be a pretty good piece. Yeah, that be. It just kind of amplifies your ability to... It just means that more of the spells you cast, you could cast while Azula's attacking.
Speaker: And Azula's also good in Manzuko, right? Because then, if you have her on the board and she's attacking, those artifacts spells it to your cast artifact now it spells you're casting with Flash during combat get doubled, which, you know, not bad. So, ah yeah. But anyway, I'm trying to kind of think through how I build enough flavor around the good stuff I have in those colors to make for a fun game for game night. So hopefully we'll have results on this for sure by next podcast, because I i need to finish it by tonight.
Speaker: Yeah, no. Yeah, I mean, like, yeah, I'm picking up what you're button down for for that. yeah I think, I mean, I'm fine with doing any kind of, like, if you if you if we want to have, like, a more restrictive kind of game night where, like, kind of everyone's like, hey, you know, we're going to do under these sort of restrictions, you know I'm fine with that.
Speaker: If that's something you want to float. No, I think i'm I'm okay with having the home game. So one of things, I think the first incarnation of a pod we've been in together kind of started at a lower power level. You kind of joined, your decks were at a higher power level. But no, but I guess what I...
Speaker: what I wanted to say about that is you came in, your decks were, I think generally a little stronger than ours and you were a stronger player generally than the rest of us were. But over the course of three or four game nights, I think we all kind of brought our level up and maybe you brought yours down a little. I would agree. ah But we kind of met each other and we had some really fun games. Like there were stretches where each of us kind of had long streaks where we didn't win. There were some hot streaks where a player won two or three games in a night. And then that made all the other players bring hot fire for the next week.
Speaker: And I think that's a healthy, fun pod dynamic. So I don't mind our home game getting a little spicier. I would rather, you know, up my spice than say, Hey guys, we need blander food on Friday, Saturday. I, I, no one, no one would ever agree to this. Cause it, this, it like involves a level of fussiness that I just, I, you know, I, I would never like, but I remember hearing about a pod that did this and I thought it was cool idea.
Speaker: It was something like, know, I don't remember exactly, but it was basically like whoever wins a game, like whenever somebody wins a game, their opponents get to like more or less vote or collaborate on a single card. They have to remove from that deck and, you know, they had to replace it with something else, but it can't be that card, you know, or that card can never come back into that deck or something like that. And it was like a way of like, like the, you know, the decks are going to come down because like, if somebody keeps winning,
Speaker: All those major staples or all those cards that were bangers are going to get removed. And i always thought that was a cool idea. Now, like, you know, it's like fussy. It's annoying. Like, I'm not going to actually press that, but I always thought that was a cool idea.
Speaker: i find that what typically happens when that rule isn't explicit is that the opposite trend appears where like one card has such an oversized outcome or such an overweight in the game's outcome.
Speaker: that players will intentionally build in two or three pieces of interaction with that piece. And they'll either see that that makes their deck stronger in general, or that just waste slots in their deck in general. And maybe they don't even see that card they were preparing for.
Speaker: ah But I actually think that that's kind of a more funny and interesting way for the decks and players to progress. It's like learning what's the card that did a lot of work, but,
Speaker: you know, it's just going to do a lot of work against my deck. Maybe I just have to be okay losing in that scenario versus what's the card that represents something that is a feature of this deck, but that's kind of widespread enough that I should build encounters for it. Like graveyard hate, right? Like you play against a graveyard deck and you have no graveyard hate. You're like, I got to get some graveyard hate.
Speaker: Uh, and that probably is just a, in general, a good idea versus like, I don't know, single target enchantment removal. you play against a Rest in Peace and you're a graveyard deck and you're like, well, I got to get rid of that.
Speaker: But then if you never see Rest in Peace, you might feel silly about not playing the most efficient, most generic removal spells in favor of, you know, whatever the Black, like Feed the Swarm and whatever the other ah Black Enchantment removal spells are. So i kind of like that process of thinking about how to build decks in response to what you've seen from other decks. So I would...
Speaker: I would hate to be robbed of that by the just take the banger out of your out of the winner's deck regime. Yeah, yeah. And like, I'm not, yeah, I'm not saying it's like a I see what you're saying. Yeah, it's not like a certainly not a perfect solution to that sort of problem. There really is no perfect solution.
Speaker: I think it was more like I believe the perfect solution is get good, as they say. Well, I, there, the power creep issue is something that's like really challenging. Like, so the group I used to play with, they don't, you know, the group of guys just don't play magic, uh, much anymore. They all kind of went to other games and stuff. and That's fine.
Speaker: But I used to play with another group in another state and they were much higher, I would say than our kitchen table, much higher than the store on Tuesday. very much like bracket, like the upper echelons of bracket three into bracket four.
Speaker: But it was a really weird, it was a really weird dynamic. And it's something that like informed the way I think about magic. And it's also like, I had to like rebuild the way I think about magic from it. But it was also like a pod that was very hostile to like,
Speaker: stacks pieces, removal pieces, even board wipes. So it was very much like who can Timmy faster? Like that's kind of what it turned into, right? Because if I'm not, if you're not allowed to slow your opponent down, then the only way to win is a faster deck, right? And then there's like, this turns into this like arms race, right?
Speaker: you know, this is back when mana crypt was still, you know, legal and softization. Mana crypts were running around, jeweled, jeweled lotuses were rolling, rolling around, you know? And i remember, you know, at the time, that's all I knew of magic. Like that was like my one of my entry levels in the magic. And I was like, oh, this is what magic supposed to be like.
Speaker: And that's where like kind of a Modi came from, like the real like. i will, I'm just use the term bastard a Modi that Modi used to be when I had like clones of a Modi and multiple triggers and like yada, yada, yada. It was like me trying to keep up with that kind of play style.
Speaker: And then I kind of realized I'm like, well, This is bad because that means that there are entire colors and color combinations that just can't hang because they're not allowed to do the things that they need to do to to succeed in magic. Like you're not going to win with a, like a, a blue black deck in a meta where you cannot remove, you cannot board wipe, you cannot slow the game down in any sort of way.
Speaker: Like you it's not going to happen. Like, And I guess this is all to say is like, I think as a pod, you do generally have to like, you have to like, keep your mind open and also like try to make sure that like all the play styles for the most part, you know, there's some play styles that are just gonna be so rich that you can't hang with, but like try to keep those doors open. um so the, you know, I try to self-regulate with my decks, right? Like, and and all that. And I think it really just comes down to self-regulation. Like your, your pod mates have to self-regulate essentially.
Speaker: i That is one way, but I think the other way is just regulation. like I feel like if a pod consists of people who enjoy each other's company and are collectively invested in continuing to play Magic together, there is a shared responsibility to kind of move towards the middle, power-wise and gameplay-wise and you know, whatever wise, I think that kind that can come from the stronger players or the players with stronger decks bringing their level down.
Speaker: but That can also come from the other players bringing their level up. That can also come from metagaming against a player who you like, but whose deck is regularly kind of overpowered.
Speaker: It's like you you face the same deck enough times and you feel like maybe I do just build in a few specific counters to this deck And maybe I just try to kneecap it a few times and see if that gets the player who I like personally, but whose deck choice has been frustrating continually.
Speaker: Maybe that gets them to change their mind. And maybe it does. Maybe a conversation would also do that. Maybe the best way to have that conversation is through gameplay with that player. yeah i don't know. like People are complicated. Gameplay dynamics are kind of complicated.
Speaker: But I feel like if you have a pod that has fun playing together and you just want to keep it fun or make it more fun, it is in the best interest of the group to kind of move everything towards the center.
Speaker: But I think that can come from, you know, any combination of the players, not just the winningest player, not just the losingest player. I think there always, there are a lot of ways to get to the middle together.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree. I agree. it It's, it takes everybody to kind of see, kind of read the room a little bit and just kind of see what's going on. Right. Like, And, know, because you ultimately want to get to a spot. I mean, I think this is obvious, but like you want to get to a spot where like your wins feel earned, right? Because like you're playing in a pod where the decks, any of the decks could have won You outplayed or outdrew or whatever.
Speaker: and there's no like, well, you know, it kind of was guaranteed to win this because like my deck is highly tuned and 80% of the slots in there are with the best card and slot and all that stuff. Right.
Speaker: So yeah, it's, I would say it's a messy process because I've been part of multiple, I would say pods per se in my magic career.
Speaker: And some succeeded this, some failed this, some like I've been part of pods where they power scale all the way up in CDH and that's all they played. Like they just couldn't stop the power scaling. Like, you know, and I've been, been in others like the ones I, like the one I mentioned where like a meta is created that is,
Speaker: pretty restrictive, you know? And I think it's just like, for me, when I'm when I'm in a pod, I'm trying to ensure that everybody's having a good time with the decks that I'm playing. And at the same time, i am not kneecapping my own, so my own enjoyment to get everybody else to enjoy it. Like there, you know, I will only come to a certain point past, which it's no longer fun for me. Right. Like, um, so you kind of have to have both.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree. i like, I think if there is a person who thinks that way in every pod, it generally works out. As long as that player also is aware of when they're not having fun and can kind of make sure that they keep themselves having fun while they kind of think about how they can make choices that make the pod dynamic as fun as they can make it You know where I'm going to, this is a, we're going to change it onto a tangent because that's what this is, you know? all right. For more Zach's hot takes, you know where I think, how do I phrase this?
Speaker: To me as a commander player only, and I came into magic playing commander, there is, there tends to be, i should say, there tends to be a difference in methodology from players who came up through magic in one V one standard or modern and then transition to commander versus players who came in just in the commander.
Speaker: There's a methodology difference there. and To me, the the challenges I've had with players and pods where the pods were like, there was a lot of friction from various players. It usually the dynamic oftentimes is it is the players that just are in there for commander or just came into commander versus the players that are into commander, but had been in magic prior and had like cut their teeth on like one V one formats.
Speaker: I have no empirical evidence to back this up. It's just the vibe I get a lot of times where like I can sit down at a pod and I can almost immediately tell when like, oh yeah, you're a modern player that's switching the commander or you're this player that's switching the commander. Cause like there's just a different mentality.
Speaker: Do you get my vibe at all? Like did, does that make sense at all? Can you tell it a hundred percent does? I, I think the, you know, the modern, well, I've seen that dynamic in play. I agree with you about that dynamic.
Speaker: I think you also see this kind of with universes beyond and ini universe stuff. Yes. Right. Where you've got a lot of players who even players, i think who maybe played commander mostly, but played commander before universes beyond became so prevalent.
Speaker: Now are seeing players who jump in with their Ninja turtled out ninja Turtles deck and don't know all the mechanics and don't know what the staples do. and I think it's hard to not be a little gatekeepy when you feel like people who are less familiar with the stuff that you expect a borderline baseline level of familiarity with are kind of taking, you know, we kind of talk about the turn clock.
Speaker: One of the ways that you can take up a lot of the, of the tables turn clock is by not understanding things that everybody else understands and either needing things explained to you or making mistakes that need to be corrected or playing slowly because you don't, you're not able to perceive the interaction points on board and stuff like that.
Speaker: And part of that is just being new. And I think, you know, as a game, players and enfranchised players should make space for players to learn. That's how the game grows. That's how yeah players get better, how players enjoy the game and come back.
Speaker: But I do feel like sometimes players get frustrated with that because, you know, a game that could have taken 45 minutes and let you get a second game in might take an hour and a half and be less fun because one of the players wasn't contributing quite as much.
Speaker: So that, I mean, that's a dynamic also to be navigated. Oh, I have another hard take on that. Yeah. And i i I think that certainly also applies to, you know, the kind of more cutthroat standard players mentality of 1v1 where you know your your game is your opponent's loss your opponent's loss is your game versus commander where you know it's kind of just vibes we all want to do the thing and if you keep someone from doing the thing it's kind of a feel bad Yeah, you want that you want to walk away from that commander game where more or less everybody kind of got to do the thing and you you pulled out ahead and won, but it was like like it was a good game. Even if it was a it wasn't a close game, it was a good game, right?
Speaker: That, I think, is antithetical to the 1v1 formats where there is zero consideration for how much your opponent's enjoying the game. The only consideration you have is winning that game.
Speaker: And I mean, I would go a step further and say there is some consideration for how much they're enjoying the game. If they're enjoying it too much, you are probably losing. Yes. Like yes it is probably seldom the case that you and your opponent are both having a good time at the same time in a one v one match. Correct.
Speaker: And, and that you can tell, them I can tell immediately when I sit down with a commander player, I'm like, Ooh, the way you're playing that deck or that the way you built that deck or the way you're talking about this game. I'm like, yep. I know where you came from. You, you, you grinded some FNMs. Then you like, you know,
Speaker: And I'm always, you know, to be honest, i'm always a little wary of those players because those players tend to be the ones that sit down and drop $400 on the first turn, you know, with a mock soap, all this, that, and this, because they still, a lot of times they'll have the same mentality of like the only goal is to win.
Speaker: Right. And yeah it's challenging. can I, can I give you a hot take on newer players? Yes, please. right. This is gonna be my spiciest one. So I don't expect you to agree with it. And the listeners gonna think I'm horrible.
Speaker: And let me put some context before I turn into this horrible person. I have trained, we not trained, trained is wrong word. I have educated probably in my life Between between 10 and 20 people on how to play magic, including my wife or random. I'm when randos come in, I've trained. I've taught many people in Atlanta that used to happen all the time in Atlanta. New people would come in and I would teach them. I had a deck design that I bring brought with me just to teach people off of because I made sure that I had every card type in and all that. Okay. Having said all that, here's my thing.
Speaker: You're going to roll up into a card store to play magic. You bought yourself a deck, whatever you're, you got it sleeped up. Can you, uh, watch some YouTube videos, maybe download arena, maybe get yourself mostly the way there.
Speaker: i think newer player, I think that's an expectation that I think newer players should, should have like, I don't know. Like, you know, if I, if I'm rolling up to.
Speaker: This might be just me. So I go to um Birmingham, Alabama to play with some friends there. And we also do board games. We do like some of the more complicated board games there.
Speaker: And i ask ahead of time what board games are going to play. And then usually on the plane trip there, I'll watch YouTube videos on the rules and how they work. So I roll up, I have 70-80% of the way there. And of course, you got to smooth out the rough edges by playing the game and asking some questions, but I'm mostly there.
Speaker: Is that too much to ask of newer Magic players? Or like new Magic players? So, I don't think that's a hot take. But I guess I would say it this way.
Speaker: If you like that Commander is a casual format, then I think it should be part of your expectation that people come to it with a disparate set of expectations for how the gameplay experience is going to go, how much they should have invested before they show up. like One of the things about Commander that separates it from a tournament in Standard is that they're there isn't an explicit expectation that everyone has read the same rulebook and is familiar with the same rules.
Speaker: protocols and that there will be a judge there at all times kind of inspecting play, making sure that everybody's following the rules. Like, yeah you know, somebody at a, you know, at a given commander night at a given pod, you might have somebody who's playing for the first time, somebody who's playing for the first time back after five years, somebody, two people who are,
Speaker: parent and child who are at wildly different ends of the spectrum and are playing together, even though that's kind of not what you're supposed to do in a commander game. It's like, it's casual. Like there, I feel like there are all sorts of entry points and there are all sorts of methods of preparation. People have lots of different, you know, days before they show up to commander night, right? Like some people have that day off and are watching, are jamming videos and deck teching and like,
Speaker: gold fishing so that when they get there, they are ready to deploy the deck they just put together. Some people are like, hey, I want to play, but I don't have a deck. Does anybody have anything? And someone lends them a deck and they're seeing that for the first time. They don't really know what it does or they have an idea what it does, but they're doing it wrong. like it's you know I feel like the casual nature of it invites all of those different pathways. So I try not to get too hung up on any individual players kind of mode of being at the table. Like, it's it's kind of a, it's a, it's an open invitational.
Speaker: That's fair. Very diplomatic of you. content Now you, you are right though. Unless you bring turd, don't do that. Don't do that. Yeah. real Real quick about let me finish my thought and then i will do a quick aside, which is yes, you are correct. Commanders a casual format. You should expect more newer players coming in that are less familiar with the game.
Speaker: I agree with that. I'm just saying, you know, watch some YouTube videos first. But when you first had to rewind a little bit on the podcast, when you first talk about the game you played and you were talking about ah or maybe this might have been on our pre-call, but you sat down and the commander that you weren't thrilled about.
Speaker: I actually thought you were going to say a different commander that one of the other people in that pods play. let me see if I can pull it up. Oh man, I'm never going to be able to spell this thing. um If you say it, I might know the spelling.
Speaker: Honorobi. Color combination. H-O-N-O-R-O-B. I might have to Google it. Honorobi. Is it a spirit?
Speaker: Yeah, it's a mono black monoblack spirit. as Wow, that google i am my spelling must be so far off. Google's not even finding it. But anyway, I can tell you what the commander does. It's an old school commander.
Speaker: Whenever a creature your opponent's control is targeted by... is targeted, essentially... Destroy that creature. Yeah, Harubi, Death's Wail, two black black legendary creature spirit, flying. Whenever a creature becomes a target of a spell or ability, destroy that creature. It's a 4-4.
Speaker: Yeah, that's the one I thought he was going to play because that's what I played... you know, right, right. the The game before you sat down is the game I played against that Hanarobi. And I thought that's what he was. I thought that's what you were to talk about. Cause that, that commander is something.
Speaker: I lucked out because I was playing it to Zora into it and nobody wants to destroy that commander. It's like nobody ever wants to destroy him. So like, you know but so you didn't have to deal with that. You only had to deal with a hit at Segu.
Speaker: i But back to the point I was making about that game. Like, I don't know. If I had been playing that commander and I hadn't approached it differently based on what the commander does, that would also have been on me.
Speaker: Like, i I think I would have handled that better because at least it's a little more obvious from looking at the card what to expect and what to watch out for. It's kind of like a player with a Rhystic Study on the board. It's like, okay.
Speaker: Or a player with, that or like, ah you know, Esper Sentinel or something. It's like, okay, let's just play creatures until somebody has an answer for this so we don't feed it all night long. ah So at least, you know, in that case, in some sense, the more obvious it is what to not do, the easier it is to kind of cater your play to not doing that thing and working around it. And as long as everybody at the table is doing that, you kind of, that can make for fun dynamics too.
Speaker: This was just a case where like, maybe I would have done that if I had read the commander, but I didn't even really pay attention to it. And, uh, you know, we just kind of left that deck alone. And then when it was set up to do what it did, it just did it for 20 minutes and we lost. And you know, that's, that too is commander baby. So, uh, you know,
Speaker: Uh, I, I don't know if I can think of anything better to leave this episode off on then that's commander baby. Is there anything else you wanted to touch on before we wrap it up? No, I'm good. This has been great fun. I love talking the, talking the, the vibes and the esoterics of magic. It's fun. Yes. Yeah. There's so much of it, but yeah, thanks for, uh, thanks for joining me, Charles.
Speaker: Thanks for having me, Zach. All right. We'll talk to you guys a next week. Take it easy.
