Transcript
The SnowJobs Podcast: here we go snow jobs nation we are off and running with another episode of the cutting edge sponsored by Boss Snowplow.
Aaron Graber: We're off and running.
The SnowJobs Podcast: As always, I'm Steve. You know who's with me.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Steve and Jeremy, as always, we're here. But if we're doing the cutting edge by boss. You know who's also joined us? We got Corey Jokula from Boss, and we have a special guest today. We got Aaron Graber of Ventrac.
The SnowJobs Podcast: aaron Aaron is joining us. He's going to ah give us some insight into what's going on at Ventrac. lay down the ah the truth about the SSV. and And tell us what we need to know out there in the in the snow world. so Corey, Aaron, how we doing, boys?
Cory Jokela: good
Aaron Graber: Good. Thanks for having me on guys.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Good.
Cory Jokela: We're getting right into it.
RICK JAMES: Yeah.
Aaron Graber: Real good.
RICK JAMES: Okay.
Cory Jokela: Good morning.
The SnowJobs Podcast: ah
Cory Jokela: You can...
RICK JAMES: ah
Cory Jokela: I think the last the last couple weeks everyone at BOSS has been starting to wake up to a little bit of frost in the grass and the snow season stress has been...
RICK JAMES: Good.
Cory Jokela: Ramping.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Heard that. I heard they got a couple frosts out there in Michigan already.
Aaron Graber: Wow.
RICK JAMES: Michigan.
Cory Jokela: this is good
Aaron Graber: It's been... 85 degrees here.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Yeah, I'm not worried.
Aaron Graber: Last two weeks.
The SnowJobs Podcast: It's 80 something here today.
Aaron Graber: Yeah.
Cory Jokela: yeah well it started starting to feel real for us anyway
Aaron Graber: We got time.
The SnowJobs Podcast: ah
Cory Jokela: Yeah.
Aaron Graber: Yeah.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Yeah, so...
RICK JAMES: Yeah.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Aaron, you've never been with us before, but I've known you for a while. We've had a lot of conversations over the years, and you ah you have been my Ventrac guy, so I'm looking forward to ah to hearing it. I mean, we all know by now that the SSV is ah is no longer. and You know? The, uh...
The SnowJobs Podcast: You're here to tell us what what we need to know. So how are we doing? What what do you got for us, buddy?
Aaron Graber: Yeah. yeah obviously not like the most fun conversation to have but when when you when you kill a product
The SnowJobs Podcast: who
RICK JAMES: ah
The SnowJobs Podcast: ah No.
RICK JAMES: Yeah.
Aaron Graber: But yeah, that's you know we're we're here to talk about it. um Obviously, SSV was a pretty important piece of the line for a number of years. um And. There's kind of some cool history to how we got there.
Aaron Graber: But. These days, um it it became less and less of the business. and we i guess that's kind of the high level we started looking inside the company As you'll know, Boston, us are.
Aaron Graber: pretty close. We work together a lot, sort of cousin companies.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Mm -hmm.
Aaron Graber: And it started to make a lot more sense to sort of align to their efforts and say sidewalk machines are their domain. And at least the stand on ones anyway. And we let them take the ball and run with it from here.
Aaron Graber: So I guess I'd probably kick it back to you and and ask if there's any specific questions that you think the audience would have or you have in general about the product and how we got here. um I can add a little bit of color to it or at least timelines.
The SnowJobs Podcast: I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, the SSV was the first... stand -on sidewalk machine that allowed you to be versatile enough with changing attachments correct
Aaron Graber: Correct. we
The SnowJobs Podcast: That was the game changer. That was the spark. for everybody else.
Aaron Graber: Yeah. that That was... i'd I'd call it the the genesis of of what Sidewalk product looks like today.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Yep.
Aaron Graber: um We certainly can't take credit for it. Back then, I was product manager in Ventrac. It was actually... mostly my doing to bring that idea. up in in the... in the R and &D world.
Aaron Graber: And we took it seriously after we noticed a bunch of... people kind of hacking stuff onto equipment on plow site. We were watching the forums, watching Facebook groups.
RICK JAMES: Yes. Huh.
Aaron Graber: Um, it It started to look pretty quickly like and like a market we could serve. But it was really obvious that the only option out there wasn't super serious because it was only a blade.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Mm hmm.
Aaron Graber: um And, you know, from years of selling small tractors, we knew that people wanted attachments and that was really going to be critical to getting them to work in heavy snow. locations.
RICK JAMES: Peace.
Aaron Graber: So we went for it. We went for it. We built something that we thought was a good platform. And then I would say the second thing that we tried to do at that same time was. Make it a little bit more of a commercial. application, you know something that was actually durable to hold up to commercial use.
Aaron Graber: So.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Well, mission accomplished. You guys did it. i mean that was ah But I think you know everybody owes Ventrac a debt that... If you have sidewalk machines now and you are.
The SnowJobs Podcast: changing attachments and you know you're not just running a mounted straight blade you have ventrac to thank for every other machine that's come after it because you guys were the first to do that and you hit it out of the park i mean we we have a fleet of them we loved ours we're we're sad to see it go Um...
The SnowJobs Podcast: But, ah you know. the next ah The next evolution, I'm sure, will come. It might not be for this year, right? i We'll be kind of shit out of luck for new stuff this year, maybe. But who knows? Who knows what what might happen? but Yeah, it's ah it's been a good ride.
Aaron Graber: yeah
The SnowJobs Podcast: You guys definitely crushed it. um You not only crushed it with the versatility, but. the ease of being able to fix it if you're not mechanically inclined. Um,
The SnowJobs Podcast: The first time I ever looked at it. The first thing I noticed when I opened the the covers on the side of the machines was how well it was laid out and labeled. Like you really didn't need a PhD.
The SnowJobs Podcast: to be able to identify where you had to go. to get something done.
Aaron Graber: Yeah.
The SnowJobs Podcast: And it was very easy to add aftermarket stuff as far as if you wanted a light kit at certain points. Um, it was all very easy. So we thank you guys for that. That was, that was not the.
RICK JAMES: Yeah.
The SnowJobs Podcast: That was not expected. and And the thing was a tank. The buggy was an absolute tank. Psalm.
Aaron Graber: yeah Well, that's... you know It's interesting you bring that up. Both the the ease of working on it and the fact that it it was kind of a tank. That has ah unfortunately a little bit to do with, I think. why it... it ultimately met its demise.
Aaron Graber: I was pretty demanding in that project.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Mm hmm.
Aaron Graber: I wanted it yesterday when I when i first brought it up. And if anybody would would know what it's like to work with a group of engineers, when you tell them you want something immediately, they they say, well well, the only way to do it is to overbuild it then.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Yeah.
Aaron Graber: Um, Because we can't be sure this thing is going to going to hold up for people unless we overspend on hydro components, unless we throw more dollars at it. fittings that we need to. and Basically just like...
Aaron Graber: purchase insurance in in the form of in the form of mechanical product design.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Yeah.
Aaron Graber: Um, So that. that worked. It built a great product, but I think it, it then it set it on a course of um kind of. pricing runaway to ah to us a small extent that That's sort of in the in the down years what... what made it.
Aaron Graber: a little bit pressurized as a product to keep volumes up
The SnowJobs Podcast: Understood.
Aaron Graber: So.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Understood.
Aaron Graber: Yep.
The SnowJobs Podcast: That's fair. I think that's fair.
Aaron Graber: No.
The SnowJobs Podcast: um I think the guys out there, including myself, if there's anything you can tell us about, if guys like me that have four, five, six, seven of these things. um How long is Ventrac going to support the SSV platform with parts?
The SnowJobs Podcast: ah For guys like us.
Aaron Graber: Yeah.
The SnowJobs Podcast: And, and what about availability of attachments for it? Obviously you're not manufacturing attachments for it anymore. I would think. Um, What's the availability going to be like?
Aaron Graber: Yeah. that's Great question. So there actually is a little bit of field inventory still.
RICK JAMES: next
Aaron Graber: at dealers.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Okay.
Aaron Graber: Um, In fact, there are technically attachments being built right now for the thing.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Okay.
Aaron Graber: um Because what we what we're doing is is matching everything up that's in the field to make sure that nobody gets stranded with a unit and and no ability to buy. you know the attachments they need So we think we're in a pretty good spot, but. If we had to, we could even build a few more attachments if if there was ah a serious issue with some sort of imbalance in power units and attachments out there.
Aaron Graber: ah manufacturing is still capable of doing small batch runs of those things. So we've we've been accommodating for now to try and smooth out dealer inventory and making sure it's flowing through and nobody gets left in the dark.
Aaron Graber: Um, in the future it's possible we could do small batch runs. We haven't really talked about that other than. saying like hey this could be a request that people give us if the power units outlast the attachments that they have in the field.
Aaron Graber: what what What would we do if dealers came to us and said, we just want... a batch of 200 snow blowers because we have people using the the machines that want them. Certainly, I think if if the if the numbers were there, we we would definitely take it seriously as ah as a request.
Aaron Graber: Obviously, no promises, but we do have that kind of flexibility in our manufacturing operation to to kind of respond if we need to.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Okay. IT'S FAIR.
Aaron Graber: um But the the initial question is the right one. So we've we've said from the beginning, the SSV platform is going to see seven years at minimum. on part support. And that's for everything. So that'd be seven years from the last one we sell, which technically isn't yet because we still have. maybe you know small single digits and in the warehouse.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Okay.
Aaron Graber: um As soon as those last ones leave. um We will be able to support for seven years on everything. And much longer than that on some things. Since it's the same engineering team and product development team and and manufacturing team that's putting these together as our other platforms.
Aaron Graber: They try to use common parts as much as they can. So a lot of the hydraulics, a lot of the the power transfer components, things like that are in our library already. So,
The SnowJobs Podcast: Okay.
Aaron Graber: it It does seem to me like seven years is probably selling it short a little bit in terms of what the true support will look like for keeping the machine rolling. um And, you know, anything beyond that seven to 10 year window, I start to question whether the machine's probably in good enough shape to really rely on it anyway.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Yeah. Yeah, they're going to be used up. That's fair. They're going to be used up by then.
Aaron Graber: Yeah, so... that's That's kind of the timeline we're looking at.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Okay. Last question for you.
RICK JAMES: That's not bad.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Any plans to bring back the 3 ,400? laughter Yeah.
Aaron Graber: Yep.
RICK JAMES: Heh.
Aaron Graber: Yeah. Fantastic question. I knew it was coming. ah no No plans yet. ah we talk about it We talk about it every year.
The SnowJobs Podcast: All right
Aaron Graber: um There are power units on our build sheets for the future that don't exist today. ah None of them are 3400s. But we know that that need is out there. I'll just say this. I think when it comes to Ventrac and the future of...
Aaron Graber: this this Your listeners specifically, they're they're concerned with mostly snow. um When it comes to Ventrac, We're pretty committed to cabbed machines.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Mm hmm.
Aaron Graber: from here moving forward. We think that's our forte. We think that's where our real value add is. We think that's where our manufacturing capabilities are best served. Um, And. That could be any, any size range. So today it's the current products and possibly bigger products were.
Aaron Graber: We're sort of tinkering with some of those things more seriously these days. um But we do continue to get that request. um And, you know, we're we're sort of watching to where that. that equipment starts to show up.
Aaron Graber: For a lot of years, there wasn't really anything. Um, then the 3 ,400 came along. A lot of snow contractors use that. Some, some contractors were trying that, um, Bobcat S 70 was, was an option for a while.
Aaron Graber: There doesn't seem to still be really a whole lot that's showing up. There's some small events maybe. um But... We're just kind of watching from the sidelines for now.
The SnowJobs Podcast: right Fair enough. So, Corey, what is boss? Does boss have anything on the drawing board to help me out with my now SSV void?
The SnowJobs Podcast: ah
Cory Jokela: Yeah, so I mean, that's... a pretty loaded question right like
The SnowJobs Podcast: but
RICK JAMES: ah
Cory Jokela: I'm going to go like everybody.
The SnowJobs Podcast: ah
Cory Jokela: I think everybody knows that. And Aaron said it earlier that. Ventrac and Boss. We're a cousin company, a sister company, however you want to say it. We're both owned by the Toro Company. Right.
Cory Jokela: So. BOSS has been since about 2014 so that means that you know The... the funny part of all this is that You know, we were. When we were working on the mag, this is going way back.
Cory Jokela: So when we were working on the machine, we had the LT Rich machine.
Aaron Graber: I'm here to break it open. happy
Cory Jokela: um the snow raider that we the machinery turned into the snow raider Already in production.
Aaron Graber: all race for them.
Cory Jokela: We saw the demand.
Aaron Graber: All the demand.
Cory Jokela: or an attachment capable machine.
Aaron Graber: actually
Cory Jokela: And we were.
Aaron Graber: And we were.
Cory Jokela: actively working on Rev 2.
Aaron Graber: out
Cory Jokela: of the mag to compete against Ventrac. when Toro announced that they acquired Ventrac.
RICK JAMES: Huh.
Cory Jokela: No. So we saw all the opportunity.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Wow.
Aaron Graber: Awesome. Bye.
Cory Jokela: that was presented in that space pretty much as soon as we add the Snow Raider. And like Aaron said, it was a similar.
Aaron Graber: Similar.
Cory Jokela: and attitude here.
Aaron Graber: Attitude.
Cory Jokela: like We need this yesterday. All of our customers wanted attachments. or wanted to know how to put attachments on the Snow Raider. We saw. all of the demand do a have an answer to the labor challenges, all the side all the liability that comes with it.
Aaron Graber: village
Cory Jokela: sidewalks.
Aaron Graber: that far
Cory Jokela: Um, So we were going after it. Long the story short. We're a Midwest company. Aaron saw more vision and opportunity in the East Coast than we did with a narrow machine, so we went after a wider machine.
Cory Jokela: um Mag is right now, the track width of the mag is about 40 inches.
Aaron Graber: Oh. that
Cory Jokela: which we totally understand does not work. for a lot of people on the East Coast.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Mm.
Cory Jokela: and that's where And that's where the SSV was so strong. like giving her a lot of credit for the vision there. Um... Bye. Yo. We are... making some making some Strong. the strong moves.
Cory Jokela: on things that we can do with the Mag, the Scout, and the Snow Raider. and we'll have some stuff to look at. at EQIP. so I can't see. much more than that.
Cory Jokela: We are starting to stage. product to ship to equip. like this week next week And there are things going to equip that I would encourage. those those listeners that operate on the East Coast to swing by the booth.
Aaron Graber: swing by them
Cory Jokela: Ciao.
The SnowJobs Podcast: So I guess it's a good thing that me and Jeremy are going to equip now.
RICK JAMES: oh
Cory Jokela: So.
Aaron Graber: okay
RICK JAMES: Yeah.
Cory Jokela: End. We talked. we talked in the I don't want to see the aftermath. But in the month or two after.
Aaron Graber: if boor do have to
Cory Jokela: Aaron announced the discontinuation of the SSV.
Aaron Graber: yes
Cory Jokela: We took a lot of phone calls direct phone calls from snow and ice contractors on the East Coast Aaron actually helped us direct traffic. kind of contractors that he's worked with pointed them in our direction.
Cory Jokela: our sales team. took calls
Aaron Graber: and calls. from
Cory Jokela: track operators. We talked to guys at SEMA. there was a lot of attention on it. so there was We did a lot. of listening. And we're going to continue to do a lot of listening. so those of you that are going to come to the booth and equip.
Cory Jokela: Check out what we're working on. Talk to us about it. talk to us about the challenges that narrow sidewalks face. what you loved about this.
Aaron Graber: what you love to go.
Cory Jokela: me. um you know i'm not going to pretend that our product line is perfect for everybody So. there's always room for improvement. And we're always we're always open to listening.
The SnowJobs Podcast: but You guys have, I mean. With the... the coming out of the scout.
Aaron Graber: past
The SnowJobs Podcast: I mean, you guys now have a pretty substantial. Variety. ah You can go small, medium, large, basically. um So you have options.
RICK JAMES: Yeah.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Boss has options. And let's face it now. with no more SSV. I mean, you guys have a good chokehold on the market because is there any other options I'm not thinking about there?
Cory Jokela: I mean...
The SnowJobs Podcast: I don't think so.
Cory Jokela: there There's another one, but I'm not going to bring it up.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Not not in my mind. Well, I mean, not in my mind.
RICK JAMES: Yeah.
The SnowJobs Podcast: it's There's an orange one that nobody's going to touch, but I mean.
RICK JAMES: Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Graber: Yeah.
Cory Jokela: I might be biased, but I personally wouldn't call it an option.
The SnowJobs Podcast: ah it's not an option.
Aaron Graber: Yeah.
RICK JAMES: in Instant.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Anybody that listens to this show knows it's not an option. so ah
Aaron Graber: but Yeah, I'll put my boss hat on for a minute.
Cory Jokela: So.
Aaron Graber: um but I think what you what you guys are touching on is kind of the reason that we went forward with the decision. It took a lot of deliberation. We didn't actually pull the plug easily on the SSV. So there there there were...
Aaron Graber: Plenty of people who wanted to keep it around even. Um, and The reason we did it is largely because of the future we saw with Boss and their product line.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Mm hmm.
Aaron Graber: You know, you you look at what they've got now, you look at where they came from and what that timeline looks like. I have an appreciation for how long it takes to... to properly R and &D something. Um,
Aaron Graber: you know, the the average customer might not get to see behind the curtain and and see how long that takes. But. The progress that's been made in a pretty short amount of time tells me that over the next.
Aaron Graber: five to 10 years, what you're going to have in the boss product line is really something that you know as much as it pains me to say, because I love Ventrac and I love the team that we have. we wouldn't have been keeping up with anyway.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Mm -hmm.
Aaron Graber: Um. And so maybe we were a season or a half a season premature in the decision. um But there were some other factors there, some manufacturing things that kind of pushed us in the direction at the at the time that we did. So maybe we were slightly early, but I would say that here in about a year or so, it's going to feel so natural to have the Boss product be really the flagship. flagship line in that space anyway.
Aaron Graber: um that that It just made so much sense.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Understood. I think that's fair.
RICK JAMES: Yeah.
Cory Jokela: Yeah.
The SnowJobs Podcast: I mean, bosses had a great track record. They took, you know, a lot of guys. I don't think understand the guys have been around for, you know, 15 plus years when those LT riches came out. And then when Boss acquired LT Rich and came out with the Boss Snow Raider.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Everybody's like, oh yeah, they got the LT rich and they just painted it red. That is not the case. Like, if you know what you're looking at between those two those two Snow Raiders. that They're vastly, vastly different machines. Almost completely different machines. They just look the same.
Cory Jokela: Yeah, and you know it's it's one of those things that Yo, we got it. And... even if Even if you didn't have to change much from a functionality standpoint, anybody that's in the manufacturing world knows that you...
Aaron Graber: Anybody that's got actually those
Cory Jokela: It always sounds like an easy thing to take.
Aaron Graber: Get off yourself.
Cory Jokela: a product and pick it up from one factory and move it to another one.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Mm hmm.
Cory Jokela: And it's almost never that easy. right so almost everything on that machine had to be touched retested re -analyzed
Aaron Graber: post everything on there. i
Cory Jokela: We put a whole new blade and plow system on it compared to what LT Rich had. um and you know like to aaron's point earlier The boss sidewalk growing, growing from.
Cory Jokela: Bye. Snow Raider. Snow Raider was the start of it, right?
The SnowJobs Podcast: Yeah.
Cory Jokela: but draw from this generator.
Aaron Graber: yeah bro
Cory Jokela: It's really become a critical part of our product line. our product lineup full full company right so You know, it's it's something that... we are can We are dedicated to continuing to be a leader.
Cory Jokela: in the sidewalks nor movable space. And we're showing that by the way that we support the issues that we've had with mag engines and starters. like We've talked about that on... prior shows. Like.
RICK JAMES: mm -hmm
Cory Jokela: we're not scot -free on the mag right it's had it's had its fair share of challenges Well...
Aaron Graber: so
Cory Jokela: we've been dedicated to supporting it we've got stuff that's going to help it even more this year right from the factory. um and development. is continuing. as we speak on what else the mag can do. so
The SnowJobs Podcast: Good to know.
Aaron Graber: it enough
The SnowJobs Podcast: I mean, sidewalks sidewalk machines are not going away. There's a greater need than ever. I mean, you have heard a little bit. post -COVID now in the last two years that it has been a little easier for some guys in some areas to find labor. But.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Still, if you're doing a lot of, you're doing a lot of handwork that a human only goes so far without a machine. you know they're going to get tired they're going to get cold they're going to get wet that machine is a force multiplier
RICK JAMES: Yeah.
The SnowJobs Podcast: And it does. we We were able to replace when we bought our first snow Raiders. Those two guys on Snow Raiders. We're doing the work of what we would have had 14 guys on.
The SnowJobs Podcast: So, I mean, that six to seven shoveler replacement is legit. and it's It's good that you guys have options out there for small, medium, and large sidewalks because depending on where you go in the country. You're getting anywhere from 36 inches all the way up to 8 feet wide now. yeah it's
Cory Jokela: I bet I bet Aaron has a similar experience, but I think the first... There was, we had, we, it was like 2020 or 2021. We had a customer call us irate that he burned through.
Cory Jokela: A cutting edge. in one like 16 hour snow event. So cutting edge gone.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Oh, down pressure mistake.
Cory Jokela: and had chewed into the blade itself like carriage bolts cutting like ground in half
Aaron Graber: had tu getting into the blade itself like kar
Cory Jokela: And. we were all mind blown and then we started thinking about it and we're like this guy could have done
Aaron Graber: done
Cory Jokela: 45 linear miles of sidewalk that night.
Aaron Graber: eight five
Cory Jokela: yeah
RICK JAMES: Yeah.
The SnowJobs Podcast: but oh
Cory Jokela: like You can't fathom doing that with a person, right?
Aaron Graber: but
The SnowJobs Podcast: No.
RICK JAMES: right
The SnowJobs Podcast: God, no.
Cory Jokela: So.
Aaron Graber: Yeah. That's a lot of billables.
Cory Jokela: Right?
The SnowJobs Podcast: It is. And it's a lot of liability because let's face it. People don't.
Aaron Graber: Yeah.
The SnowJobs Podcast: They don't slip on parking lots. They slip on mostly 9 out of 10 slips are are on the walkways or on the sidewalks.
RICK JAMES: Yeah.
The SnowJobs Podcast: So, I mean, having the ability, that was one of the the first reasons we went to the SSV, because we wanted a broom. We wanted a broom for those. We get those freezing rain events. And we get those dustings to to an inch with frozen pavement. We wanted the broom to be able to clean.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Write down to it and eliminate. as much liability as we possibly could. um So, you know, it's good that the mag, the mag is there. You have that option. And if, you know, we're cutting the mag down to fit on 36 inch sidewalks, I'd be even happier.
The SnowJobs Podcast: That'd be a really good.
Cory Jokela: Well, you'll have to swing by Equip to see what we're doing, mobile and what we've got. what
The SnowJobs Podcast: i will I will definitely be by there.
RICK JAMES: Oh yeah.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Are you going to have the boss chains at the booth?
Cory Jokela: So.
RICK JAMES: Okay. Yeah.
Cory Jokela: Probably not this one.
The SnowJobs Podcast: No?
RICK JAMES: Uh...
The SnowJobs Podcast: Oh.
Cory Jokela: or should i Or do I need to tell you that they're going to be there to actually get you there?
The SnowJobs Podcast: No, I went by the booth I wasn't allowed to get one I I was not allowed to get one
Cory Jokela: You're welcome.
RICK JAMES: No.
Aaron Graber: I wonder.
RICK JAMES: ah
The SnowJobs Podcast: but but Ha ha.
Aaron Graber: i don't even have one just so you know
Cory Jokela: you
The SnowJobs Podcast: ah
Aaron Graber: And I probably should.
The SnowJobs Podcast: I grabbed one and I was told, put that down. i'm like Emily was all over me. She's like, nope, you don't get one. You didn't do the scavenger hunt. I'm like, oh, okay. I don't have time to do the scavenger hunt. I'll put it back.
Cory Jokela: well
The SnowJobs Podcast: That was great though.
Cory Jokela: Yeah, you know we and we've got to be completely honest too, right?
The SnowJobs Podcast: Okay.
Cory Jokela: like so what we're So what we're showing at Equip... is probably not going to be available until the middle of this season. So. it takes time It takes time to develop these things.
Aaron Graber: Good.
Cory Jokela: It takes time to spool up production. and we're going as fast as we can. But you know, we're probably probably cannot promise or this fall. equipment.
Aaron Graber: Thank you.
Cory Jokela: so
The SnowJobs Podcast: I mean, that's that's understandable.
Aaron Graber: up but For what it's worth, i'm I'm hearing...
The SnowJobs Podcast: It happens.
Aaron Graber: At this point, you know, we're in mid -september um i'm hearing at this point still every day about ssv deals closing at the dealer level so ah there is probably still some some good availability if you're in the right region to to get that done and until boss plugs that hole.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Uh -huh.
Aaron Graber: Um, So. just Just as a ah small caveat there, too.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Yep.
Aaron Graber: you
RICK JAMES: Hmm.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Definitely.
Cory Jokela: Yep.
The SnowJobs Podcast: That's great. I mean, it's good to know something else is coming that there's going to be a. A fill for that void because it's it's definitely going to be a void. And I think especially the Northeast guys are going to feel it with ah with the not being an option anymore if they are not, you know, if the dealers don't have them and they can't find them.
The SnowJobs Podcast: ah So that's good that Boston's on top of that. and And you still have, it's not like you don't have anything in that 36 -inch realm. You know, you still have the scout. So you still have the OG Snow Raider.
The SnowJobs Podcast: you know that's ah So it's not like you have nothing available. There's no options to go down a sidewalk in the Northeast. There are still. you know, options of boss producers. that's That's always good to know.
The SnowJobs Podcast: are you You guys were so totally sold out of them last year, Corey. like Is it is it availability going to be a problem? Like got should guys, I mean, obviously you always tell guys buy early.
Cory Jokela: I was going to say, i would I would not recommend going to your dealer on October 15th and asking if they have any.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Bye.
The SnowJobs Podcast: ah
RICK JAMES: ah
Cory Jokela: and but But no, we... you know Availability should be better this year. Um, I think. it's still it's still going to be a challenge.
Cory Jokela: um you know there's only so much aaron runs into the same thing there's only so much a factory can do
Aaron Graber: and runs it the same thing there's only so much factor
Cory Jokela: especially when you're you know manufacturing and it's in a small rural town. So.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Yep.
Cory Jokela: the uh the challenges there are real
Aaron Graber: very real
Cory Jokela: but It's better. It's been a busy shop this year. so
The SnowJobs Podcast: I bet. I bet. So, you know, Aaron, you, you and Corey have both been, you know, around sidewalk machines. They're, they're a relatively new thing. I mean, what are they honestly less than 10 years old, right? Before they became a must have.
The SnowJobs Podcast: So.
Aaron Graber: Yes.
The SnowJobs Podcast: You guys have seen the evolution come on where we were talking pre -show about. The LT Rich was the first thing, and I think every snow guy out there. was like We're not paying $11 ,000 for, you know, sidewalks. That's not going to happen. I can use it four months a year. If it snows, not going to happen. It's not cost effective, blah, blah. And then in one year.
The SnowJobs Podcast: It became everybody had to have one. It like happened overnight where it went from all these guys turning up their noses out of this will never be a thing. It's never going to work. to Everybody's got to have one for efficiency and making money. Were you guys surprised by that at all, that it took off like that?
Aaron Graber: I wasn't surprised.
Cory Jokela: um
Aaron Graber: after seeing the capability of it once we built them. um It's interesting you bring the the cost up, $11 ,000. our Our first goal. with the SSV was to deliver it.
Aaron Graber: with the potential for power attachments at 10K. Because... I had that same thought. i had I was empathizing with all of the snow contractors out there going, ooh, 11K is a big chunk for a sidewalk machine.
Aaron Graber: So what we need to do, of course, is sell it cheaper and make it more capable.
RICK JAMES: mm -hmm
Aaron Graber: and
RICK JAMES: yeah
Aaron Graber: we we of course failed We, of course, failed at that, but not by a whole lot.
RICK JAMES: Team Moon.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Swing and a miss. No.
Aaron Graber: Not by a whole lot. um
The SnowJobs Podcast: that What was it, 14? 13th.
Aaron Graber: It was. So we we ended up, if i if I recall, I think we were around that 12 range.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Yeah.
Aaron Graber: And what we did was we separated the PTO kit so that you could potentially buy it. apples to apples, and then you could add the PTO kit later.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Sure. Run a blade.
Aaron Graber: Very quickly, we learned what contractors' true intentions were because we sold. 98 % of them with PTO kits.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Mm.
Aaron Graber: So almost overnight we realized, okay, there is a lot more pricing flexibility here because they see the value in it. And then as soon as we started using it for work, on our side We saw the same things. Of course, we were doing testing all the way up through the process. But as soon as we we started shipping machines and we started using them around our facilities.
Aaron Graber: um around you know video shoots, things like that. it it was It was obvious right away. Okay. the pricing is fine. People can still make a lot of money with these things. Um, So. it it it It was, I don't know, a little bit um unpredictable at the beginning because we didn't know quite what we were delivering. But then once you use them. BitClicks.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Yeah.
Cory Jokela: Yeah.
The SnowJobs Podcast: And you see how many people it replaces. having one of those in working order.
Aaron Graber: Yeah.
The SnowJobs Podcast: They just, they work.
Aaron Graber: Hmm.
The SnowJobs Podcast: I mean, you six to seven shovel.
Aaron Graber: Yeah.
The SnowJobs Podcast: I remember hearing that this is going to replace six to seven shovelers. I'm like, bullshit, that's never going to happen. And I remember the first, we, we bit the bullet. We got it. the OG snow Raider when boss came out with it.
The SnowJobs Podcast: And I remember the one guy calling saying. Hey, I'm done with the route. And I'm looking at my watch like. There's no freaking way you're done already. He goes, no, I'm done. It's all salted too. Cause that exact path spreader was. That thing was a joy to use as well.
The SnowJobs Podcast: And. I couldn't believe he cut the time from what what seven guys were doing. He cut that by 45 minutes. It was incredible. that how quick you could get it done. And that's with salt being down and not just throwing salt by hand. It's putting out the right metered portion of salt.
The SnowJobs Podcast: So it was like, holy crap, we get we need more of these. This is going to make us a lot more efficient and save us a lot of money.
Cory Jokela: Yeah, I mean the That's all. We saw. We saw the potential. in the Snow Raider, right? And then... We saw the SSV. Like.
Cory Jokela: pretty much blow everybody's eyes wide open to it. Right?
The SnowJobs Podcast: Yep.
Cory Jokela: like what an attachment capable machine could do. I remember when we we took the... we took one of our prototypes of the mag an earlier prototype up to Houghton, Michigan where they get about 300 inches of snow a year and put it on their sidewalk.
Aaron Graber: for time up to
Aaron Graber: i want
Cory Jokela: box. And they were using.
Aaron Graber: And they were .
Cory Jokela: but holder trackless style articulated machine.
Aaron Graber: older trackless Later.
Cory Jokela: on their sidewalks like concrete flower pots still in place, like steel lampposts. And we ran we absolutely ran circles around it. um And it just did. then from there on it was like this is this is where it's at broom snow thrower the attachments are the attachments are where the value is.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Oh yeah.
Cory Jokela: Um. That said... on price. we still struggle with the price argument. on the mag. Um. you look at you look at what ah what uh what the mag guy what MSRP for a mag is to fully outfit one.
Cory Jokela: You're you know Mag. tractor, mag tractor, plus drop spreader, plus a broomer, a snow thrower, plus a blade, you're in the 30s, right?
Aaron Graber: No.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Yeah.
Cory Jokela: So. one of the things that we constantly hear and i would be willing to bet that aaron hears it all the time too is That's great. for a core snow market, but everybody wants some other use for it.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Oh, 100%. And it doesn't have to just be sidewalks. Like, our guys were getting done so quick so much quicker that they they were taking the SSVs and doing, like, four or five passes in front of a loading dock just to cut down that last, you know, six feet so the guys didn't have to get right up on it. They'd push it all out.
The SnowJobs Podcast: and win row it so that the guys could just get there and be able to turn around with the machine right there and and take it away there.
Aaron Graber: oxygen
The SnowJobs Podcast: The possibilities were endless. you at least in. For our company. We were getting sidewalks done so much quicker. that guys were finding other uses.
The SnowJobs Podcast: that they could use them for because just to say, Hey, I'm done in four hours what used to take me nine. like what What do you need me to do? And that's when we started. We actually started doing it. I talked about it on an episode. We had two sites that were like five city blocks apart.
The SnowJobs Podcast: And we actually sent out residential. Postcards. to the people on those blocks that we were going to do their public sidewalk for like 30 bucks. I mean, we were, we were roading them down the sidewalks anyway. Why not just put the attachment down and get paid for it? So, you know, it was an extra thousand bucks, 1500 bucks a storm on a route we were already going.
The SnowJobs Podcast: So it made sense. But yeah yeah, they're so efficient that once you have them. you find other uses for them because you're you're getting more work done quicker.
Aaron Graber: I would say that was probably... The only major... complaint that we heard about the SSV non -stop from day one was i want to use this thing for other stuff like different seasons different different applications
The SnowJobs Podcast: Mm hmm.
Aaron Graber: Um, that That. is clearly a desire. for people running these things. I'm not going to speak for Corey because I don't even really know everything they've got going on, but I know they're thinking about it at least.
Aaron Graber: We we never really had the ability to respond. You know, that product was always going to slot in as a snow product only.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Yeah.
Aaron Graber: And I always felt a little bit bad about that because... Normally we... We say, yeah, we listen to our customers. We do what we need to do. And we just never built into our long range schedule the ability to build out versatility on that machine.
Aaron Graber: But people wanted that more than anything. So.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Yeah. Very true.
Cory Jokela: Salute.
The SnowJobs Podcast: very true i mean
Cory Jokela: Says the guy with the 4520. and every attachment that you could ever want for it.
Aaron Graber: good
The SnowJobs Podcast: Wow.
RICK JAMES: ah
Cory Jokela: No.
Aaron Graber: They love it.
The SnowJobs Podcast: I mean, the 4520 serves a purpose.
RICK JAMES: Yeah.
Aaron Graber: They can't get enough.
The SnowJobs Podcast: The 4520 definitely, I mean, you there's nothing that can handle inclines and stuff with mowing like the 4520 can.
RICK JAMES: and close
Aaron Graber: Okay.
The SnowJobs Podcast: So, I mean, that there's.
Aaron Graber: right
RICK JAMES: air
The SnowJobs Podcast: There's definitely a place for that.
Aaron Graber: Yeah.
The SnowJobs Podcast: That thing's incredible with the additional wheel kits and all the stuff. but Yeah, I mean, I'm going to miss the SSV. That was my baby. I love those things, and we we went heavily into them, and they've been great for us. so I'm going to, uh, that's kind of bittersweet for me, but Hey, listen on to the next, everybody has to evolve, right? You gotta keep getting better and keep trying new things. And I'm sure.
The SnowJobs Podcast: I'm sure there'll be other options out there that are not painted orange. So i' I'm excited.
Cory Jokela: Yo.
Aaron Graber: Cory will take care of you.
The SnowJobs Podcast: that's it
Aaron Graber: I'm confident of that.
RICK JAMES: No.
The SnowJobs Podcast: that's it
Cory Jokela: Yep.
The SnowJobs Podcast: but
RICK JAMES: that's a That's a different Steve than I heard the last couple of days i like talking about.
The SnowJobs Podcast: but but I get emotionally invested
Aaron Graber: ah but
RICK JAMES: Who is this guard? Who is this guard?
The SnowJobs Podcast: I...
Aaron Graber: You too. You're telling you're telling me he's he's being easy on me, huh?
The SnowJobs Podcast: Dude.
Aaron Graber: he wants He wants me to be willing to come back?
The SnowJobs Podcast: Ah.
RICK JAMES: Oh, he yeah, he...
The SnowJobs Podcast: I get them.
RICK JAMES: He's being easy. He's being easy.
The SnowJobs Podcast: i do i listen i have a soft spot for my ssvs because of what they allowed us to do
Aaron Graber: All right
RICK JAMES: Yeah, he does.
The SnowJobs Podcast: ah They allowed us to be a much bigger company than we were. ah without having to basically increase the size of our company. They're forced, like I said, they're forced they were forced multipliers, and the ability to...
Aaron Graber: yeah
The SnowJobs Podcast: to change attachments on the fly and set up trailers with, you know, basically send out strike teams with two SSVs in a trailer. and two guys, and they're getting the amount of work they were getting done in such a short period of time.
The SnowJobs Podcast: It's why you have sidewalk machines. It's why other. Other people are starting to develop them. Because they are force multipliers and you don't have to rely so heavily on getting multiple laborers.
Aaron Graber: that That was my.
The SnowJobs Podcast: you know You have a reliable guy. He's got it.
Aaron Graber: Yeah. That was my favorite part of the development on the SSV. We we were underground. for a while. you know Obviously, nobody knew anything about what was going on. we were just watching from the sidelines this this concept. start brewing.
Aaron Graber: And we started meeting with, with contractors, a lot of it in in the Cleveland area. We're just very close to that area and you get a good lake effect snow up there, but. um We went you know up into Michigan and some other places as well.
Aaron Graber: End. every every light bulb. moment was just that was really fun to experience because the same stories it was oh i i can grow my company or i can be more profitable or i can i can weather a season that might be a little bit you know, down because of weather patterns or something because I have the flexibility to have a smaller staff or whatever it was.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Yep.
Aaron Graber: it did feel like we were doing good work for the for the the family you know So that. you know to To know that that's going to exist and continue. is ah is a great thing.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Absolutely. 100 but yeah i do have a soft spot for my ssvs they i'm emotionally attached to them they uh They did well for me. And that's, you know, when when something changes your business and puts more money in your pocket and makes makes your guys' lives easier, you know, it's hard not to get, you know, emotionally attached to stuff like that. but Then you're looking at, you know, you're looking at boss, how they picked up the ball. I think coming out with the scout. was probably the single greatest business decision that any company could have had. because
The SnowJobs Podcast: Like Aaron said, and both Corey said. The price of a fully outfitted sidewalk machine. was getting into the high 20s, low 30s. I'll talk. to outfit these things with all the attachments. What about the guy that, okay, 14 ,000 for an OG Snow Raider was was a bit much. They didn't have a lot of sidewalks, but they also didn't have the labor.
The SnowJobs Podcast: That scout fills such a great need. I think that whoever whoever made that call to come out with that. That is one of the greatest business decisions that you guys could have possibly made.
Aaron Graber: i'll I'll show my ignorance for a minute and just ask Corey, when when people buy that scalp, What is that product? ownership life cycle look like do they buy the scout and then graduate or they buy it and it's it's a extension of the fleet they have all the different ones or like what what does the scout normally mean for a contractor.
Cory Jokela: It's...
The SnowJobs Podcast: sub $10 ,000 sidewalk machine
Cory Jokela: It is.
The SnowJobs Podcast: with a blade.
Cory Jokela: It is weird because I don't want to say it's weird. but it is unique because It fits for almost everybody. Right.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Mm -hmm.
Cory Jokela: Like you have a mixed fleet of operators running.
Aaron Graber: okay
Cory Jokela: running mags. the what happens with the skeleton we see a lot is it's Ready?
Aaron Graber: See a lot of things.
Cory Jokela: both It's a great both starter machine.
Aaron Graber: Well, that's a great point.
Cory Jokela: for guys that have smaller businesses. Need to... do more with less labor like no matter what contractor you talk to labor is always on
The SnowJobs Podcast: 100%.
Cory Jokela: So they want to do more hiring and hiring and managing less people. Um, But what the for the bigger contractors... I hear it getting left on contracts a lot.
Cory Jokela: Like.
Aaron Graber: okay
Cory Jokela: If you have a remote contract. where it's a little bit outside of your general service area or it's
Aaron Graber: There you go.
Cory Jokela: tighter, smaller. or justifies having that machine that you can just send a guy in a car to go check on It gets left there. pretty frequently so it becomes its own little force multiplier
Aaron Graber: fire
Cory Jokela: For life.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Yes.
Aaron Graber: Definitely.
Cory Jokela: check insights
The SnowJobs Podcast: A hundred percent. It definitely does. Cause it's like I said, it's, it's filling that. sub $10 ,000 niche where it's not so expensive where you have to have tons of work for it.
The SnowJobs Podcast: you know you can leave it on a site that you have maybe a couple miles of sidewalk or less you know and you're not worried about it going anywhere else because it's making you money there
Cory Jokela: Yeah, sites like especially sites that you're...
The SnowJobs Podcast: That's it.
Cory Jokela: you're okay, walk behind spreading on. Right.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Mhm.
Cory Jokela: Like you don't have miles of sidewalk. but it's still going to take. a small shovel like a hand shovel crew a lot of time to go do it. That's where that's where it really shines
The SnowJobs Podcast: Yep.
Cory Jokela: in an established way.
RICK JAMES: Yep.
The SnowJobs Podcast: i I think it was a brilliant decision to come out with that. I think it definitely fills a need. And now, with the like like I said, jokingly, but it's true, like small, medium, large. And that goes for the price tag as well.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Uh, you know that you got the mag available, you got the OG snow Raider, you got the scout and there are three different price points. And they're all going to multi you know be a force multiplier for you as a snow contractor. so i think I think it's great.
The SnowJobs Podcast: And you guys have been very candid with, you know, the mag last year had a couple issues. We talked about that in a previous episode. And you're doing your thing. You're redesigning. You're making it happen. so
Cory Jokela: Yep.
The SnowJobs Podcast: It's a... it's exciting. I mean, as, as sad as I am to see the SSV go where boss has taken. you know, and the next step is exciting.
Cory Jokela: Yep. And for all those guys that, you know, we had some conversations at Sima that were really hard about.
RICK JAMES: Yep.
Cory Jokela: uh people's experiences with mag engines and starters Um, y 'all for all for for how hard those conversations are. those of you that are going to be at Equip.
Cory Jokela: and that have had those issues like Come talk to us. Like. We need to hear it.
Aaron Graber: we need to hear quantity link
Cory Jokela: We want to hear it. We want to hear everybody's experiences with the machines, both positive and negative.
Aaron Graber: Thank you.
Cory Jokela: And if you don't know if you don't air that out there.
Aaron Graber: and if you don't I don't know.
Cory Jokela: we can't do anything about it right like we yeah we have we have warranty data
The SnowJobs Podcast: 100%.
Cory Jokela: But being able to. have that conversation. there's more than just like data in a spreadsheet it has emotion involved in it
Aaron Graber: This morning.
Cory Jokela: is been greatly beneficial to us. It's more than a spreadsheet will ever do of warranty data.
Aaron Graber: Yeah, I'll throw a bone to all the product managers out there.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Absolutely.
Aaron Graber: If if you are using a product that you purchased from a company and you and you feel like... they need to hear your opinion and call. call and talk to them because That speeds up the process. It gets those changes done faster.
Aaron Graber: It really does. serve. the market best when customers are are you know, loud enough to be clear about their intentions.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Like not wanting a Briggs and Stratton?
RICK JAMES: Here we go. Here we go.
The SnowJobs Podcast: ah I had to throw it out there. Oh man.
RICK JAMES: Uh...
The SnowJobs Podcast: ken Aaron, let me ask you, though. The...
Aaron Graber: Yep.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Probably the greatest thing I ever saw at Event Track as far as engineering was the... ah the drawer. The Drawer Spreader. Switching from the original. to the drawer was just a phenomenal upgrade anyway. Uh, anyway, that can, uh, be, you know, kind of pushed across the aisle to your sister company there.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Will you run with that?
Aaron Graber: So that's it. That's a good example of asking for an improvement. um you know We don't get it right every time. We don't go fast enough every time. But on that one... I mean, credit to the engineering team. they they They built a ah whole drop spreader.
Aaron Graber: And we launched and they basically started a brand new one the next week because everybody was like, this thing is hard to load.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Yep.
Aaron Graber: Um, So. Hey, Corey, you can have all all the plans for that, whatever you want.
The SnowJobs Podcast: ah They nailed it on that.
Aaron Graber: it's
RICK JAMES: yeah
Cory Jokela: but
Aaron Graber: Make it happen.
The SnowJobs Podcast: they nailed it on that one that was uh that was great that was definitely uh Definitely an upgrade. absolute upgrade. Alright. What else? You got anything else, Corey? Everybody's got to go to Equip and check out the boss boots, see what they got up their sleeve.
Cory Jokela: Yeah, I think those those were the... those were the those are the big things you know and just Kind of reiterating that. You know, we're. Bosses. we're We're in the sidewalk game.
Cory Jokela: It's critical to us, right?
Aaron Graber: critical thoughts
Cory Jokela: so We're continuing development on. All right. All fronts. of all so of all forms of sidewalks in Oregon.
Aaron Graber: ah side box
Cory Jokela: So. um All that said, the SSB has been a...
Aaron Graber: All that said. is
Cory Jokela: the ssv even though they've been Cousinly competition, they've also been critical to our development. It's been an awesome machine.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Absolutely.
RICK JAMES: Yeah.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Absolutely. All right, cool. Well, Aaron, thanks so much for coming on, man. It's always good to talk to you. Good to see you. i'm ah I don't know. We're not going to have much to talk about anymore, though. if you There's no SSVs anymore. I don't do 4520s.
Aaron Graber: Tell you what.
The SnowJobs Podcast: I don't have enough work for that
Aaron Graber: ne You don't have enough work for the 4520 maybe. um But the next thing we bring out.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Maybe.
Aaron Graber: it'll still be and It'll still be interesting. You can have me on and i'll'll I'll chat about it then.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Yes, sir. Will do.
RICK JAMES: and We will.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Well, thanks for coming out. ah Appreciate having you on. and ah Appreciate all the information for the ah the SSV owners out there. And ah Corey, as always, you know, great information from you and boss. and yeah you know You heard him say it. Go check out the boss booth at Equip. If you're going to be down there, see what they got coming. and You know, they're going to. They're going to fill the void, pick up the ball, and keep rolling forward.
The SnowJobs Podcast: So... Anything else, boys, before we go?
Aaron Graber: Thanks. Thanks to you guys for keeping the content rolling. I know people like it. they They learn from it too, so it's good.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Yep. We appreciate it.
Aaron Graber: We appreciate it.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Thank you very much.
RICK JAMES: Yeah. Thank you guys.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Anything else, Cora, before we go?
Cory Jokela: I think we're all set.
The SnowJobs Podcast: All right
Cory Jokela: As always.
The SnowJobs Podcast: Well, we'll wrap it there then for this episode of The Cutting Edge. Brought to you by Boss Snowplow on the Snowjobs podcast. Again, thanks to Corey. Thanks to Aaron. And we will see you soon. though Everybody have a very safe weekend. keep pushing
