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E030: The Devil’s Tramping Ground
1.6k Plays5 years ago
If there is one place where true, tangible evil lives, many argue it is the Devil’s Tramping Ground in Chatham County, North Carolina. Is the anomaly scientific, supernatural, yet another example of scapegoating, or perhaps a mixture of all three? Let us know YOUR theory on the barren circle in which many won’t dare to step foot.
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Transcript
Pandemic's Mixed Impact on Podcast and Community
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to Coffee and Cases, Luthounds. I am so excited to be back with you this week and it is now official. I am going stir crazy. I am so ready to have some semblance of normalcy and
00:00:18
Speaker
It's really odd. I'm feeling both discouraged and encouraged at the same time this week, as I'm sure many of you are. I'm feeling selfishly discouraged because I crave all of the small things that I used to be able to do in a professional way. I'm wanting the podcast to continue to grow in terms of its listenership.
Podcast's Mission and Adaptation to Pandemic
00:00:44
Speaker
Socially and politically, though, I'm feeling encouraged by the peaceful activism I'm seeing around me in my community every day. The main reason Maggie and I decided to do this podcast in the first place was to make sure to bring issues into the public consciousness. And that's exactly what's happening around the world right now. And the self reflection that I'm seeing in so many people gives me hope.
00:01:11
Speaker
I do want to let you know though, if you're new to coffee and cases, please know that our podcast has changed slightly as our world is still adjusting to a global pandemic. And while we're being asked to keep our distance from others, to stay inside when possible and to not gather in large groups, we do ask that you bear with us as our podcast has changed a little as well until we can return to normal.
00:01:36
Speaker
Please take care of yourselves. Maggie and I pray that you are continually safe. We say it every week and we really mean it. We care about you. Stay together, united in the human spirit, even if not physically, and stay safe. Now, onto this week's episode. The
Internal Fear and Personal Responsibility
00:01:57
Speaker
Devil.
00:01:58
Speaker
The name alone was enough to strike fear in me when I was younger and it still does to this day. I am going to be completely honest. Even as I was researching this episode, I was sitting at home alone watching some videos about this week's topic and hearing strange noises and I had to stop watching. I kept getting creeped out thinking that I heard someone on the stairs, seeing things out of the corner of my eye. It was a bad combination.
00:02:28
Speaker
And that's the thing. The fear we create for ourselves can be dangerous. The danger doesn't necessarily come from what you may be thinking, though. The danger isn't that it produces just as much anxiety as if the imagined evil is real. The problem is that we don't want to admit that the fear resides in us.
00:02:54
Speaker
is sometimes our own fault. Here's what I mean. When we see bad things, we don't want to admit that we would ever be capable of those same horrific actions. So we play the blame game. Every group of people who are different from us are blamed. We scapegoat because we're not brave enough to accept the blame ourselves.
00:03:19
Speaker
or we fall prey to the pathetic fallacy and we blame this elusive entity of evil or the devil for problems. We do this, the devil made me do it, because we refuse to admit just the last part of that statement about evil. We did it. It was a choice. But we never want to admit our own complicity.
00:03:44
Speaker
Interestingly, instead of seeing the embodiment of devilish intentions within ourselves, as we should, there's been a tendency to see evil in nature.
Introduction to the Devil's Tramping Ground
00:03:54
Speaker
For the Puritans, here in America, the devil was in the woods surrounding the town. Get too far from quote-unquote civilization and you may fall prey.
00:04:04
Speaker
Even in modern popular culture, we see similar concepts. We have movies like The Forest, where tortured spirits lurk and attempt to lure us to danger. Ironically, for me, we feel safe when we're at home or surrounded by crowds of people, but we feel in danger when we're transplanted into a natural setting and we're alone.
00:04:27
Speaker
Think about it. In Massachusetts, there are 43 places with Devil in the name of that natural location. In Connecticut, there are 34. In North Carolina, the setting of our story today, there is Devil's Rock.
00:04:43
Speaker
two separate Devil's Forks, there's a Devil's Branch, Kill Devil's Hill, Devil's Knob, four different Devil's Elbows, Devil's Nest, Devil's Chimney, and seven Devils, many of these place names originating from those of a Scotch-Irish origin who settled in the area who had a long history of folklore centered around the Devil as most cultures have.
00:05:08
Speaker
But perhaps the most perplexing geographical location and for some haunted location is a small patch of land in the middle of a forest in Bear Creek, North Carolina. It's a patch that has been there for hundreds of years with devilish stories that are nearly as old. This is the story of the devil's tramping ground.
00:06:06
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron.
00:06:15
Speaker
We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement.
Engagement and Listener Goals
00:06:23
Speaker
So justice and closure can be brought to these families. With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week.
00:06:44
Speaker
Before we begin our show today, I wanted to remind you about our challenge, a reminder you probably don't need since Maggie and I mention it every week. But if you recall, this one is a lofty goal and Maggie and I wanted to set our sights high. We want to get to 150 ratings on iTunes. We currently have 91, so we are almost two thirds of the way there.
00:07:06
Speaker
It only takes a split second if you're listening to us on iTunes to click for that five star rating. And slow towns, I'm literally going to beg you here to pass the word along about the podcast. I mentioned in the beginning, I'm feeling a little bit discouraged because I'm wanting our listenership to grow even faster.
00:07:25
Speaker
So please, please, please not only rate us, but make it a point to share our podcast with as many of your friends, neighbors, coworkers as possible. We have listeners from all over the world. So while we know that this is a big ask, we know that you can do it.
00:07:43
Speaker
It may take a little longer than last time and it has, but when we get to 150 ratings, Maggie and I will do a bonus episode, hopefully together. Just make sure that you follow us on social media, Coffee and Cases podcast on Facebook or at Coffee Cases podcast on Instagram. Or as always, listen in each week to know when that bonus episode will air. Now, let's get into our show.
00:08:07
Speaker
If
Legends and Mysteries of the Devil's Tramping Ground
00:08:08
Speaker
you've ever taken a walk into nature, then you know that you can practically turn over any leaf and see life. You'll find an inchworm munching on the vegetation, or turn over a rain-soaked log, and you'll see pill bugs scurrying around looking again for cover. Heck, every decade or so, you'll hear the song of cicadas, which have literally risen from the ground. Life from nature.
00:08:37
Speaker
from the earth. But in the spot that is the center of today's story, it is not life that comes from the ground. On the contrary, it is evil and death, at least as the stories go. In southern Chatham County in North Carolina, in woods near Harper's Crossroads and south of Siler City, there's an odd aberration in the landscape.
00:09:02
Speaker
Many are aware that perfect circles are an anomaly in nature, at least according to some of the research I've read. Instead, they're often viewed with suspicion and mystery. Likely the most obvious mysterious circles in nature if you're thinking about this, sleuth hounds, are crop circles or pictures of crop circles that you've seen. Places where vegetation is flattened into patterns.
00:09:26
Speaker
One of the first mentions of crop circles, according to an article by Benjamin Radford for Live Science, was a pamphlet from 1678.
00:09:36
Speaker
Radford states, quote, the woodcut actually illustrates when in folklore is called a mowing devil legend in which an English farmer told a worker with whom he was feuding that he would rather pay the devil himself to cut his oat field than pay the fee demanded. The source of the harvesting is not unknown or mysterious. It is indeed Satan himself who, complete with signature horns and a tail, can be seen in the woodcut holding a scythe, end quote.
00:10:06
Speaker
If God is associated with life, it makes sense that the devil be associated with death. Deep in the pines in Chatham County, you'll find a circle as well, a 40-foot, 12-meter in diameter ring where no vegetation has grown for hundreds of years, despite the fact that there's lush foliage all around the whole barren circle.
00:10:32
Speaker
The locals tell stories that have passed through generations that the spot is void of life because at night the devil rises from the pits of hell to walk the circle, contemplating what evils he can bring upon the world next. It seems in 2020 he's already been doing a lot of walking.
00:10:53
Speaker
Some of those stories involve individuals walking into the woods with their dogs, only to have their dogs cower and whimper, refusing to step foot into the circle. Its animal instincts warning its owner that something unearthly is present, something that we, as humans, cannot sense.
00:11:12
Speaker
Other stories tell us that items placed within the barren ground of the devil's tramping ground will be found outside the circle the next day. They say that as the devil makes his paces, he kicks or violently throws out any items in his path.
00:11:29
Speaker
One video, the one I mentioned at the beginning that I watched that gave me the creeps, had a video camera centered on the circle when suddenly you hear the sound of a tin can being kicked and you see an item fly across the corner of the screen. And yes, sleuth hounds, while I am aware that someone off camera could have made the sound, could have kicked the object, this is not the only story or video of its kind.
00:11:58
Speaker
Some have reported a type of whirlwind effect inside the circle, that the wind would be blowing gently outside of the circle, but that once you step inside, the wind is much stronger and circling around the middle of that circle.
00:12:15
Speaker
Other tales include those from locals of Harper's Crossroads and interviewed in an article by Ethan Fine-Silver, who say that they have seen red glowing eyes coming from the woods when driving by, and that they often find themselves locking their car doors as a precaution before they drive past.
00:12:35
Speaker
One
Childhood Fears and Personal Experiences
00:12:36
Speaker
gentleman told Fine Silver that he tried to drive his car to the spot, to the devil's tramping ground, and that without cause his car stalled and wouldn't restart. And a little bit more creepily, when he tried again the next day in a different car, that the same thing happened.
00:12:55
Speaker
There are even tales of individuals who have attempted to stay the night inside the circle. My biggest question though is, why would you want to? This is the same reason why I would never touch an Ouija board. If I have a choice of being in contact with a spirit that is potentially evil, why would I want to take that chance?
00:13:19
Speaker
I feel like at this point, Slothounds, I need to just take a quick moment, a quick break from this week's episode to explain to you the place from which this fear for me stems. When I was around 11, I was given a porcelain doll as a Christmas gift. My dad immediately wanted to put it on display in my bedroom, and he put it on top of the dresser that was across the room from where my bed was placed.
00:13:46
Speaker
I had this odd feeling about this doll though. I tried to convince myself that I was just being silly. And of course, I didn't want to come across as ungrateful for a Christmas gift, but I just didn't like the doll. That very night that I received it as a gift, I had a nightmare that the doll came to life, went into the kitchen, got a knife from the utensil drawer and stabbed me in the chest.
00:14:14
Speaker
I woke up the next morning with a pain in my chest in the very spot where the doll had stabbed me in my nightmare. Well, I mean, obviously I looked down and I didn't see a knife sticking out, so I realized it was just a dream and I was able to calm myself down. I told myself, oh, I probably just hit myself in the chest at some point during my dream. However,
00:14:35
Speaker
I cannot express to you my horror and I still feel it to this day when I sat up in bed and I swung my legs over the edge to see the doll laying on the ground right beside my bed and staring straight up at me. I screamed in terror. My dad came running in and I just kept crying out, the doll, the doll.
00:14:58
Speaker
well he picked it up he placed it back on the dresser across the room and i explained my nightmare to my dad but i mean obviously in hindsight he did he did just dismiss it as a childish fear i tried telling him that there was no way
00:15:14
Speaker
This doll could have fallen that far into that position without breaking and had I gotten out of bed and been sleepwalking he would have heard me and woken up since he was a light sleeper and his bedroom was right across the hallway.
00:15:30
Speaker
From that moment on, Sleuthhounds, things got worse. I would have nightmares nearly every night that revolved around the doll. It started, the nightmares would just be when I was at my dad's house, but then they continued when I was at my mom's house as well. I began when I was at my dad's house walking in my sleep.
00:15:49
Speaker
I began talking in my sleep, and one particular story about me talking in my sleep is upsetting to me. If you know anything about me, then you know that I do not curse. Literally, a dresser could fall and break my foot, and I would be screaming and crying, but the worst that would come out of my mouth is, oh my goodness, oh my goodness, and that would be the extent of it.
00:16:13
Speaker
So when my dad told me that one night he heard me talking in my sleep and that I was having an argument with someone and saying every curse word in the book, I began sobbing. Right smack dab in the middle of the pizza hut in Grayson, Kentucky, where he told me, and I became convinced that the doll was possessed.
00:16:34
Speaker
and especially convinced when I also began riding in my sleep as well. One particular night I was studying for a test and I was in that stage where you're drifting between states of wakefulness and sleep and when I was in that state I continued riding.
00:16:53
Speaker
I saw the messages when I woke up the next morning to study for the test and I was looking over the note cards and a few of the things I'd written were silly. They had messages like distractions, like the phone ringing. And one of them said, the King is rich. He pays my tuition. But the one that haunts me to this day said, you'd better be good enough or I'll break you down.
00:17:19
Speaker
I put the doll immediately behind the door in my bedroom and I was so scared of it. I feel silly to admit this to you but I do it again for years.
00:17:32
Speaker
When I would stay at my dad's house, I would look in the crack of that door to see which direction that doll was facing before I went to bed, and I would check in the morning to make sure it was facing the same direction. I had originally begged my dad to get rid of the doll, and he refused to since it was a gift. Eventually, he did do something with it, and Sleuth Hounds, the relief I felt was tangible.
00:17:58
Speaker
And I've stopped walking in my sleep. I stopped talking in my sleep. I stopped writing in my sleep. And I have never asked my dad, nor do I want to know what he did with that doll because it would be in the back of my mind. But to this day, I honestly believe that doll was evil. And yes, I realize that many of you listeners will say, but you just admitted at the beginning of the episode that it's a logical fallacy to believe that evil is a physical entity.
00:18:28
Speaker
And yes, I realize I may sound hypocritical, so let me clarify. I believe that evil exists, and I believe that evil can take a physical embodiment. What I also believe, though, is that too many people use evil as an excuse to not take responsibility for their own choices. That is what I disagree with.
00:18:54
Speaker
Well, now you know, though, why, especially after an experience like the one I had, I would never make a choice that could put me in contact with that evil again. Never. But some are braver souls than I, and decided to test the stories of the devil's tramping ground by attempting to stay the night.
00:19:16
Speaker
Some stories are innocuous. Those who wake up the next morning in the same spot and they say, see, nothing happened. Other stories are from those who argue, no, swear, that they either were stalked at night by strange figures staring at them from the edges of the pine forest or scarier, that they pitched their tent in the middle of the circle, went to sleep eventually, and then
00:19:45
Speaker
when they exited their tent in the morning, found themselves miles away from the devil's tramping ground, as if their tent had been moved by an unseen force while they were lulled to dreams by whispers coming from the surrounding woods. Fortunately,
00:20:06
Speaker
And I say, fortunately, and I know that seems crazy to say, but the folklore states that those who managed to stay in the circle and stay awake the whole night through are never sane again. What happened to them and what they saw never to be reported.
00:20:29
Speaker
Most, however, like those locals who were interviewed by Megan Molaris in her article, Digging for Truth, North Carolina's Devil's Tramping Round Mystery, tried to scope out the place as teenagers and left after the first moment of getting creeped out, never to go back.
Scientific Exploration of the Barren Circle
00:20:48
Speaker
Even from an ecological perspective, the place is odd. In recent times, photographs and in years past record books show that nothing has grown in the circle for hundreds of years. These records dating back to even before Chatham County was officially founded.
00:21:04
Speaker
In that same article by Megan Molaris, she spoke with Richard Hayes, a veteran soil scientist in North Carolina for nearly 30 years. And it makes sense to first look for a logical and scientific explanation for the barren circle. Hayes states, quote, one of the theories I had when I came out was there was something in the soil inhibiting plant growth. One of the natural things we find in Chatham County is copper, end quote. But the results came back.
00:21:36
Speaker
no copper. Yet another scientific explanation that could inhibit plant growth is a high concentration of salt in the soil. But the results came back. No high concentration of salt, at least not high enough that plant growth would have been affected.
00:21:54
Speaker
Many say that even plants that had been previously thriving have withered and died when transplanted into the circle. These results of the soil analysis led even Richard Hayes to note, quote, I can't explain it scientifically. I can't explain why nothing's here. End quote.
00:22:18
Speaker
Years later, Hayes was called back to test the soil again. This time, when the soil was tested, again as cited in Mueller's article, the results only led to more questions. What it showed is that plants should be growing inside the circle. In fact, the soil tested from inside the circle was more fertile than the soil surrounding
00:22:45
Speaker
the dirt patch in which plants were growing. So it led everyone to question what could explain this anomaly? Now, some still argue very logical explanations for the lack of growth, even despite the soil sampling not providing answers. While I personally, as I mentioned before, would never attempt to stay in the circle, there are many who, as evidenced by graffiti on surrounding trees,
00:23:14
Speaker
empty beer bottles littering the area and ashes from bonfires lit on the site who have decided to stay there and in fact Hayes the soil analyst notes that the continual pilgrimage by thrill seekers to the site and their fires and littering could be the very thing that continues to prohibit growth despite the fertile soil.
00:23:38
Speaker
Others argue that there were many molasses mills in the area and that as part of the running of that mill, horses were used, many of which were tied up and would continually be driven to walk in a circular direction. So could horses from a mill have walked in this area of the Devil's Tramping Ground and worn it down so much that no vegetation could ever grow?
00:24:02
Speaker
Well, according to many researchers, that doesn't quite explain it either. The patterns created in the landscape by similar molasses mills, they don't match the topography of the Devil's tramping ground. So it seems that theory doesn't hold any clout either.
00:24:19
Speaker
Additionally, curious is that compasses that are taken into the circle, oddly become skewed by about five degrees. And this sort of compass activity is generally associated with high iron content in the soil. But again, soil testing does not validate that theory either.
00:24:39
Speaker
Most logical to me was a theory posited by Kaushik Petauri that the devil's tramping ground was once a turpentine pit where pine would be burnt to extract sap, otherwise known as pine tar.
Theories and Legends Behind the Tramping Ground
00:24:53
Speaker
This is a very common practice in North Carolina, hence the name for the University of North Carolina and often for the state, as the tar heals. According to Petauri, quote, logs were piled in a shallow pit and covered with earth.
00:25:08
Speaker
A slow-burning fire, lighted on the top of the pile, caused the gum to liquify and the tar to run down into catch basins outside the mound." The use of this ground as a past turpentine pit, since the use of tar and turpentine were used to make both ships and ropes waterproof, could explain the continued lack of vegetation across the decades.
00:25:35
Speaker
However, others look to more supernatural and superstitious explanations. Some argue that the perfect circle of dirt was caused by a UFO that landed there and that the firing engines or extraterrestrial radiation caused the geographical mystery.
00:25:54
Speaker
Some have even begun to theorize that the circle was created by something positive rather than negative, that there was a Magdalene crystal column of energy in that spot, a divine feminine presence. The most common non-scientific theory, though, is that this site was either used as a site for ceremonial dances
00:26:17
Speaker
or is the very site on which two Native American tribes fought over which land to use to bargain with European settlers and that the two tribes each sent in their best warrior to fight for the land.
00:26:33
Speaker
Legend has it that the two warriors were so evenly matched that, armed with a knife and a spear each, they traded injuries as they scuffled in the circle. The stories state that there was so much bloodshed that that explains why things still won't grow to this day.
00:26:55
Speaker
Some websites even cited the superstition that because both great warriors died, that either the devil had killed them both, or that tribal gods maintained the barrenness of the area as a tribute to a great warrior who fell that day. A warrior by the name of Croatoan.
00:27:16
Speaker
Now, sleuth hounds, especially history buffs or those of you here in America, you likely had a momentary recollection of that name. If you recall, the colony at Roanoke in the outer banks of North Carolina were running out of supplies.
00:27:33
Speaker
John White had returned to England to get supplies to prepare for the winter, and when he returned, the entire colony was a ghost town. Not a single person remained. The only clue, unexplained to this day, was a single word carved into a tree, croa, or as some accounts have, croatoan.
00:28:02
Speaker
The link to the Devil's tramping ground came from those who argued that the Croatoan tribe, after the battle, fled to the Outer Banks where they befriended the colonists and either intermarried with the colonists, which would have helped the colonists survive, or led them back to a more sinister fate at the Devil's tramping ground.
Historical Guilt and Native American Legends
00:28:24
Speaker
I, myself, am more likely to believe a statement by the website NorthCarolinaGhosts.com which states that, quote, the interpretation of the site had been seen through the lens of dark powers associated with Native Americans in much of white American folklore. Were the complexities of guilt?
00:28:45
Speaker
and a need to establish a psychological legitimacy to the taking of native lands, often cast the first inhabitants of the country as a supernatural force that needed to be eliminated, stories which give a sense of legitimization to European possession of the land." A sad yet truthful illustration of the real and human evils found when we played the blame game.
00:29:16
Speaker
Generations
Preservation and Public Access Challenges
00:29:17
Speaker
have passed along the stories, and generations of people have come to test out the theories, even though the land has been on private property owned by Bob Dowd's family for over 100 years. Megan Molarus's article states that the Dowds have actually been trying to clean up the area, especially in recent years, to establish tours and even a designated camping area.
00:29:41
Speaker
Unfortunately, the litter left by those who sneak onto the property has led Bob Dowd, the owner, to make the following statement, quote, we'd like for people to come out and see it, but to take care of it would be the most important thing, end quote.
00:29:57
Speaker
Other websites like NorthCarolinaGhost.com have noted that the circle itself has shrunken in, especially in recent years, to around 20 feet, and that some grass now grows in the circle. Some, even locals, have become more dismissive of the evils linked to the Devil's tramping ground, despite the name. However, even with a growing doubt, they're still curious why anyone would want to attempt a night's stay inside the circle.
00:30:27
Speaker
it seems that the legend lives on in that spot, even though less fear does. Most believe, as Barbara Walters does, a woman interviewed by Ethan Finds Silver about the tramping ground who said, quote, you don't have to fear a spot in the ground. You have to fear the devil's work wherever he is, end quote. Perhaps the
Personal Responsibility in Combating Evil
00:30:51
Speaker
devil has been pacing that spot a lot more often this year in 2020 or
00:30:58
Speaker
Perhaps legends like this one are the scapegoat for us, not willing to accept responsibility for the evils we ourselves bring to life in this world. The unwillingness to accept responsibility for our own or our culture's past, but it's not too late to change. It's not too late for the admission of the need for change.
00:31:27
Speaker
And that's what I was saying at the beginning, Sleuthhounds. Sometimes that evil is in us as humans. It isn't just a responsible choice to avoid places of evil, but also to make choices to battle that evil that lives in us all, to make conscious choices based on empathy, justice, and love.
00:31:56
Speaker
to pray for change and for growth, even on seemingly barren soil.
00:32:05
Speaker
Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Twitter, at casescoffee, on Instagram, at coffee cases podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcastatgmail.com. Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon.
00:32:35
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.