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38: The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe
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In this episode of BookWatch, one Son of Adam and two Daughters of Eve journey through the Wardrobe into the magical world of Narnia. C.S. Lewis’ classic 1950 novel The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe and its 2005 film adaptation directed by Andrew Adamson. We get deep into the characters, the wonderful child actors who played them, their iconic performances and some discussion on casting for the upcoming Netflix films. Are you ready to go through the Wardrobe with us?
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Transcript
Introduction to Book Watch Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello listeners on this episode of Book Watch. We are stepping through the wardrobe and into the magical world of Narnia. We are starting with The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis, originally published in 1950, and it's film adaptation directed by Andrew Adamson.
00:00:18
Speaker
The screenplay was brought to life by Anne Peacock, Andrew Adamson and Christopher Marcus, while the audio book version is narrated by Michael York. I am Sarah Day. And I'm Jordan.
00:00:31
Speaker
And I'm Chris. And we will explore the magic, the characters and how this beloved classic translates from page to screen after these messages.
Purpose of Podcast: Book vs. Film Adaptations
00:00:49
Speaker
Welcome to Book Watch, the podcast where pages meet screens. Each week, we dive into the world of adaptations, comparing beloved books with their cinematic counterparts. From faithful retellings to bold reimaginings, we'll break down what worked, what didn't, and what made each adaptation unforgettable. Whether you are a bookworm, a movie buff, or both, grab your bookmark, grab your popcorn, and let's watch some books.
Summary of 'The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe'
00:01:14
Speaker
This beloved classic follows four siblings who discover the enchanted land of Narnia, ruled by the icy grip of the White Witch and awaiting the return of the great lion Aslan.
00:01:25
Speaker
As the Pevensey children navigate courage, betrayal, and hope, both the page and the screen invite us to believe in something greater... than just beyond the wardrobe door.
00:01:38
Speaker
Jordan and Chris, tell me a little bit about your experience with this story and the Narnia series as a whole.
Personal Reflections on Narnia
00:01:48
Speaker
Narnia was my earliest introduction to fiction, I think. When I first started getting into reading chapter books and longer form stuff a kid, these caught my attention and I started just devouring them. I went through, I think, the whole series in like a week probably, just reading them as a kid. So I was enthralled in the world. And I think I probably I've probably read them 20, 30, 40 times over the course of the last, you know, 15, 20 years. So they definitely have a special place in my heart.
00:02:22
Speaker
um I think I started reading them after this film came out. This film was very pivotal in my life. I was seven years old when it came out. But, I texted the co-host this and i I texted my sisters last night because I like got just the opening scenes of like the music and like the bomb shelter, like all of that. And I just was like, I remember watching this when we were little girls and like having being together as sisters. And like my family all has silly nicknames for each other. And one of my sisters is called Susan then after this character, Susan, because we thought it was so funny. One of the scenes where Lucy's like Susan. And we just thought that was hilarious. So then we just call started calling my sister Sabrina Susan. Like this film is deeply important to me and and my family. um my sisters especially and then reading the books they all but went way over my head as a kid and so just reading them basically for the first time again now as an adult I'm like these are really powerful these are really deep and there's a lot in them to find so I'm excited to talk about it but yeah Narnia is very very special to me
00:03:39
Speaker
I was just looking at one of the things I put in our document here was the ages of the kids in the book. And Lucy would have been about the same age you were when you saw the the movie. So that's kind of fun. I loved her so bad. Yeah, she she is. yeah I texted you guys. I'm like, I want to adopt Lucy. She's so adorable.
00:03:57
Speaker
um My first memory of this series is the BBC short, seat like short season. um Like they they did the same thing with Pride and Prejudice. um And then i have vague, vague, vague memories of that. And then i had i was telling you guys earlier that I actually have a scene that was actually from that show that I could have sworn was from the film. So I remember that scene, but with these actors, um which is wild. um i don't remember...
00:04:31
Speaker
If I read the entire series, like I could not tell you how the series ends. um I do remember you know Prince Caspian and the Voyage movies coming out. But again, i couldn't even tell you if I saw those.
00:04:44
Speaker
I remember owning the books. I remember reading so Magician's Nephew. But I don't think I loved it enough to keep going. um And that might be because even after... I just read The Magician's Nephew before rereading this...
00:04:59
Speaker
It is very different to me like it it it still seems pretty boring compared to the rest of the Narnia saga, in my opinion. So I don't know if I did finish the books right back then. um But I did see the movie. I've seen this movie several times. A lot of it came back to me as I was rewatching it.
00:05:17
Speaker
for this episode and I'm very excited to see what Greta does with the magician's nephew and if she continues the series to see how you know that continues and I am excited to do the next two um movies in this particular franchise as well Now, The Magician's Nephew came out technically sixth in the series with as far as release date. So um if you think about it that way, he built out the world and then kind of went back and made that prequel for you how the world began. And then The Last Battle was the last one he did, which is the end of the series.
Favorite Books in the Narnia Series
00:05:56
Speaker
um Those two are my favorite. So the magician's nephew, both the magician's nephew and the last battle are my two favorites. I understand the reason. why but Yeah. What do you find so enthralling about the magician's nephew?
00:06:13
Speaker
My favorite thing about it is it kind of introduces this bigger, um, multiverse within the world. It's got the wood between the worlds. We see this travel between, it's not just Narnia and his, uh, world. There's infinite worlds that honestly, I wish we'd gotten more exploration of, you know, uh,
00:06:30
Speaker
He could have written endless stories in this world. And yet that just leaves it up to the imagination to say it what's in the other pools? what's you know What else can be explored here? and so And then getting to see the creation and the you know the way the world fills out, the all that is really, and obviously um the characters of the uncle who just doesn't, he wants them the power, but not the um the responsibility and all that stuff. So yeah.
00:06:56
Speaker
Yeah, it's i think I just latched on to some of the creation myth and some of that too. I think it's just kind of fun. And I did find that interesting, the creation of Narnia. I really did. But I guess I do i didn't... The uncle was getting on my nerves. i There was nothing that really drew me to the kids in that one. Maybe it's because I was used to the Pavenzi siblings. And I just wanted to get through the magician's nephew and get to their story. um
00:07:28
Speaker
But i my question was going to be... Do you suggest like, did I do it wrong? Should I have read it sixth? No, I agree. I think that reading it one through, you know, with Magicians Every First and straight through with the the chronological order, I think is better. i think you get to build the world the way it the time moves. I think it would be weird. That's why I always read them in all a row, because I think jumping around would just kind of make it too disjointed for me.
00:07:58
Speaker
Yeah, in my copies of the book, there's a foreword by the publisher saying like, this is how C.S. Lewis, reading The Magician's Nephew first is how C.S. Lewis wanted it to be read. Like there's documentation. directly from him that they got through his estate saying that they want he thought it was best read magician's nephew lion witch wardrobe and so on from there that's so well at least they did it right yeah Do you think that's why they I mean, okay, obviously, we are starting this series because of the movie by Greta Gerig that's coming out in November. um
00:08:39
Speaker
So do we all agree that's the way they should do it? Like, we're glad they're doing the musician's nephew adaptation first. yeah i mean this is yeah yeah the magician's nephew ultimately is prequel so it does like all of the exposition and groundwork of like what is narnia how did it come to be here why do the animals talk why is the white witch here like it explains all of that and so i think it it definitely makes the most sense to you know explain, hey, this is this is what you're dealing with. This is what the world looks like in this story and how you know even like the wardrobe itself in this book and this movie is very mysterious. How did it get here? Well, the magician's nephew explains why the wardrobe is a portal to Narnia and makes that make sense. So I think it you know especially because these this movie that we're talking about is from 20 years ago. And then they only did three out of the seven books into movies. So basically these haven't had proper adaptations ever unless the BBC went all the way through. But so they did. Okay. So that's still, it's been 30 ish years plus since then. So you're talking about, like we were talking about with Harry Potter, like this is a brand new generation who's never had any exposure
00:10:01
Speaker
to Narnia as a visual media before i think it's probably smarter and important that they lay the groundwork and say here's let's lay it all out so everybody knows where we're at and then we can get into the more commonly known story of Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.
00:10:19
Speaker
I wonder if Greta will actually get all of them adapted. That's my worry it's the same thing I worry I have with the Harry Potter stuff is that if something goes wrong with the with the studios or whatever else having to say hey yeah we're done then we don't get that tv version of these now these ones are movies she's doing and as long as we have enough people that are um committed to continuing to see it i think it'll end you know actually going to see it in theaters and whatnot if it wins the awards or whatever else they're they're trying to do with that i think we'll keep going just fine but it's a long time to try and commit to making seven different films so
00:10:53
Speaker
Yeah, well, and especially with, you know, the continuance of some of the characters throughout like the Pevensey kids, especially being in the second film, they come back all the way through the rest of the books in in various degrees. yeah Right. So it's like, it's kind of like that time pressure that Harry Potter or like Percy Jackson has, like these kids are going to grow up. So if you're going to do it, you've got to commit and go all the way and follow through and get through all of them. And you have to do it relatively quickly before, you know, these kids who are supposed to be, you know, by the last book, whatever, 13, 14, 15 years old before they're 25, 30. Like you can't, you know, if you're going to do it, we got to do it. We can't just be messing around and like, oh, we'll come back to it later. Like, because then you got to recast. It's a whole thing.
00:11:40
Speaker
Are there any themes that you thought the movie did really well or that they didn't do really well that the book had that you want to touch base on? um You know, we've got good versus evil, of course, coming of age. We've got the faith and belief, sacrifice, betrayal.
00:11:58
Speaker
um Well, just like we've talked about with like holes and some these other ones, I do love the shorter books being adapted into movies. It just it's so much easier to get a lot of the stuff right when you have only four or five hours of book that you have to convert down into two and a half hour movie.
00:12:15
Speaker
So I think most of the themes from the book came through pretty well. I can't think of anything where I felt like, I mean, there was a few things they added, like the first scenes with the war were just referenced in the book with a third party narrator, not actually seen some of the, um, attitude between the siblings was there, but more of a reference because of that way of narrating. So there was some of that that, uh,
00:12:39
Speaker
was ah brought through, but not in the same way. So I was fine with that. But otherwise, I think that all the themes really presented themselves pretty well in the film. Yeah, I agree. I mean, we said we talk about good adaptations and like the Hunger Games always comes to mind and Harry Potter always comes to mind. But I think this is like a sleeper hit. Like this movie is really, really well adapted from the book. Like there's not a lot missing. And the stuff they added, I think really adds to the story. And especially when you take it to a visual media, makes it more exciting and more engaging. but yeah, all of these, all of these things come through, you know, really
Christian Themes in Narnia: Aslan as a Christ Figure
00:13:20
Speaker
clearly. Ultimately this story is it is a story of sacrifice. Aslan, you know,
00:13:28
Speaker
And we'll talk about this more, I'm sure. But like this is a it's a Christian story. Aslan is Jesus. He takes Edmund's sin of betraying his family and he sacrifices himself to pay that debt, which like, you know, Easter was last week. That's what Jesus Christ did for us. If you believe in Jesus, that's what he did for us.
00:13:50
Speaker
as you know as sinners as human imperfect humans as he died to pay the debt of our sins and you know so that like betrayal and then he aslan tells the siblings you need to forgive your brother don't talk about what he did in the past love him forgive him like that that is such a powerful message of like we don't want to hold grudges we don't want to make people feel othered after they mess up because we all mess up, like just move forward in love. And I think like taking those big, like powerful Christian themes and kind of whittling them down and making it very easy and approachable for, you know, wider, for children yeah for children. Yeah. For children and for non-Christian audiences to like take in those like lessons and values and morals um is really powerful. And I think it it did it.
00:14:40
Speaker
yeah Again, the book laid the groundwork, of course, but like this film, Bringing It to Life, did a really great job of taking these thoughts of, you know, we have to fight evil. We can't just sit by and let it continue. Or like Mr. Tumnus choosing to be brave, even though he's scared, like all of these things, you know, really shine through and and like the acting performances of everybody were were so good to to bring that to life.
00:15:04
Speaker
Well, yes, speaking of the acting choices and performances, let's get into our cast, unless, Chris, you have anything else to add? No, I don't think so. I i was going to mention the um some of the the old antidote of C.S. Lewis and Tolkien being friends at the time, actually, when these were all rewritten. And Tolkien always thought that C.S. Lewis was living too much in the too much in the fantasy world of like there's his stuff was too unrealistic entirely because it was more aimed at that children level of ah entertainment. And whereas Tolkien wanted things to be realism, it wanted to be battles and, you know the men, the age of men and all that and, you know, things being more realistic than others. And so I thought that was always an interesting dynamic that was...
00:15:50
Speaker
yeah ah Never really, you know, it's never really come through into the book screen like this, but it's always just made me, entertained me to see the, you know, these two big authors that we love and know so much were beefing even back then about their books.
00:16:04
Speaker
Yeah, this could be fake news, but I think I've seen somewhere before C.S. Lewis put Father Christmas in this story specifically as like a little like frick you Tolkien. Like, I can't have fantasy and like, I'm going to put Christmas in in this book. Just, you know, like, just because I can kind of a thing.
00:16:24
Speaker
And ah Tolkien was struggling to actually publish his stuff, I believe, is what I remember reading. And it was C.S. Lewis saying, just just get it out there. it's its you let it Let people you know read it. You've got to put publish. And kind of pushed him to get that stuff published. So we wouldn't have either of these things, I don't think, without that little bit of competition, a little bit of a of um playful banter between these two in that salon-style thing of the day.
00:16:47
Speaker
Total side note, I know that there's a movie about Tolkien and I think Christopher or Nicholas Holt plays Tolkien, but it would be fun to have a little movie about these two together in their relationship.
C.S. Lewis and Tolkien's Creative Influence
00:17:01
Speaker
I was going to say they remind me of Steven Spielberg and George Lucas and like how pivotal Spielberg was in getting Star Wars made, you know, the original Star Wars film. um And like back and forth how they would like bet like, well, Jaws is going to make more money than Star Wars. And like they just, you know, together, like they just push each other to make each other better. and we we've seen that very recently with those two. And so thinking back of Tolkien and C.S. Lewis, like where would the world be if we didn't have the Lord of the Rings or Narnia? Like, yeah you know, the world's a better place because they were friends and, you know because I knew you and because they were pushing each other a Little wicked reference in there for you. If you know, you know.
00:17:40
Speaker
um My youngest just got invited to a bigot theme birthday party and I'm like, heck yeah, let's go. you've been training your whole life for this Saturday. You will be dressing up. Exactly. all right. So cast.
Character Analysis: Lucy and Edmund's Development
00:17:54
Speaker
Um, we'll start, of course, with Lucy Pevensey. She was played by Georgie Henley. Like I said, i wanted to adopt her. I want to eat her up. She's the cutest little Lucy. Yeah. And she's our age now. So, you know, it doesn't matter. She's encapsulated as little Lucy. Yeah.
00:18:13
Speaker
Yeah, she's she's the cutest. And she really is like the heart of the story. Like yeah none of this happens if she isn't brave and goes out and explores and is kind with Mr. Tumnus. And like she's the one who is always like, no, we have to. Mr. Tumnus is in trouble because of me. Like we have we have a responsibility. We have a moral obligation to help him and save him. And so versus the other kids are like, dude, we got to go back. Like, we're in trouble. like We got to get out of here. And she's like, no, like we have to do the right thing. And so she and again, her being the youngest and being so approachable for any kid who's watching it, like I can even though I'm little, i think I could be brave enough if I needed to. It's like, yeah, you can like you have this example. So she did a great, great job for being so little.
00:19:02
Speaker
I agree entirely. that She was adorable and actually did a great job with the performance. And know the actress has done a few other things since, but this really was ah an amazing performance from her.
00:19:15
Speaker
Yeah, she really held her own with the older kids and even the adult actors. Mm-hmm. One of things I saw was that Mr. Dumbness, James McCavoy, she's older now than he was when he performed this movie. Wow. You're going to make me throw up. I mean, yeah, it's what, 20? 20 years ago now. 21 years, yeah.
00:19:40
Speaker
ah Okay, so moving on to the next sibling. Edmund is played by Skandor Keens. A very punchable face.
00:19:52
Speaker
Yeah, you're right. He does. Poor guy. Yeah. He just he was meant to be kind of the antagonist of the siblings and kind of was the the um you know always kind of up against Peter and like butting heads of the the book and the movie. But I think he did that well. He made you kind of hate him for a little bit. And then you kind of came around to me like, oh, he is ah um figuring out how to be brave and figuring out how to be a part of this dynamic of the the group. So I liked him.
00:20:25
Speaker
I think he did a really great job of his portrayal, him being, like you said, like the antagonist or the you know kind of the bad guy but amongst the siblings. Nothing about what he did in the book or in the movie was meant to be malicious. He wasn't trying actively to like harm his siblings. He's just incredibly, incredibly selfish. He wants to do what he wants, the Turkish delight. So like, yeah, I'll tell her whatever she wants. he wants to save his own skin so he's going to tell her whatever she wants to hear like it's not that he's like i hate my siblings i want to harm them he's just selfish and i think like that oblivious at times i feel and oblivious for sure i didn't know what was happening so and the turkish delight and the the food and drink were actually enchanted as part as far as the book tells us that there was actually magic in that that made him yearn for more. It was the idea that he would do anything to get more of that. And so it was part of why he acted that way. It was because he was enchanted by the witch. Yes.
00:21:26
Speaker
Yeah. And so like that his performance of making sure that you still he's ah he's a tragic character. like He has to now carry this guilt of betraying his siblings. And then you know they have the discussion in the book, but ah and they don't really in the in the movie of like, do we tell Edmund that Aslan sacrificed himself for him, that Aslan died specifically for Edmund in this case. And so in the movie, they do kind of send a message back.
00:21:56
Speaker
And so he does know that Aslan is dead. and he like he has to carry that for the rest of his life that Aslan died because of me and he has to you know that weighs on him and you can see like that shift of him like being a petulant annoying selfish child to growing up and being like I've got responsibility. I have to, you know, I have to do the right thing. I have to help these people who have helped me and forgive and move forward. and so you know, as annoying and punchable as as he is, he i think he has ah he had a lot of work to do as far as carrying the story. And I think he really stepped up and really did a great job. So shout out.
00:22:37
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think all four of them are really good actors, but I do think Lucy and Edmonds, at least in this one, their performances stuck out of the four of them.
00:22:50
Speaker
Moving on, Susan is played by Anna Popplewell.
00:22:57
Speaker
Susan's way more annoying in the movie than in the book. so As the annoying, like, logically, like, older, like, Hermione Granger coded, like, older sister, like, I was like, dude, you're you're annoying even me. Like, I am you, or at least I was you when I was a younger kid, but, like, you're driving me nuts. But she was not that annoying in the book, so I want to defend my girl. I think, like, the movie had to take all of the characteristics of the kids and blow them up, yes you know, for the sake of it being a visual media and you can't hear anybody's internal thoughts, obviously. So it took like all the the best and worst of each of the characters and like amplified it. And so her Like, well, logically, like, annoyingness got blown, I think, a little bit out of proportion. But she ultimately, she's the big sister. and So she's going to be there with Lucy. And, you know, they're going to cry over Aslan and they're going to be together. And, you know, she's going to protect everybody. And, you know, she's big sister Susan.
00:23:57
Speaker
And that's probably what a lot of people that watched it could relate to is that everybody, you know, that has a bigger system, a big sister might recognize some of those traits from a sister that, yeah, is a little bit bossy at times or something or whatnot. But in the story, you know, she is the, um, the,
00:24:15
Speaker
very pretty young girl that uh becomes queen you know as one of the queens and performs her role as i don't remember what they was the elegance that she got or was that the gentle the gentle for her and so she had to grow into that role as well she started out more bossy and i think she grew to become this gentle queen that they they wanted from her and yeah i think that her emotional side of the story with um Lucy and everything growing to be a little closer and figure out how to trust each other and all that was well done by her. I think her the emotional side of the character really came through with trying to help with Aslan was being taken to the stone and all those things really came through pretty well.
00:24:55
Speaker
Yeah. Jordan, you mentioned that all of these characters kind of got blown up in the movie. And I thought one particular instance of this was the relationship between Edmund and Peter, our next character. And their, like, animosity towards each other was completely exaggerated in the film. yeah Peter is played by William Mosley. um And other than that, like, exaggeration, thought he was a great little Peter. Mm-hmm.
00:25:26
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, he's the older sibling that thinks he needs to protect everybody. He's trying to take on that father role because his dad's been... gone at war. And so, and I think that sometimes comes through with ah male siblings too, is, you know, like if you're, you know, parental, your father figure is gone, even the younger siblings, you know, want to kind of try to take on that role too. And he's understand why he's not being given the chance to protect his family as well. And so, you know, that animosity of like the hurt of, you know, of Edmund, of being, his father's been gone so long. He just, you know, at the beginning, he runs after, out back to the house to grab the, picture because he misses his dad so I think they did a good job of giving you a reason for them to be more antagonistic in the film but and I think that you know that's part of that whole dynamic of siblings that they were really trying to portray here. And so I really enjoyed um the way the kids all got to bring those ah those emotions together and portray that for the younger viewers, especially.
00:26:25
Speaker
yeah relate that That opening scene of them at the bomb shelter really it's really a Peter and Edmund scene to tell you right off the bat who these guys are. Edmund, like he's he wants to get the picture of his dad, but ultimately it's selfish for him to do that because he's putting himself in danger. And now Peter saving him, he's putting Peter in danger too. Like these are like the German air raids on London. Like the people are dying all over the place. And he like, i understand, I would probably do the same thing as Edmund in that situation. Like wanting a picture of my dad who's gone at war could die at any time. Like I would probably also go back in for the picture, but ultimately like that is a selfish thing to do because it's a photograph versus like
00:27:10
Speaker
my and my siblings actual lives being put on the line and then peter like he's the big brother you know he's the one where mom at the train station mom's telling him it's your job to protect your siblings and take care of your siblings which like yes it is as the oldest sibling but also like that's a lot of weight to put on a 13 year old kid especially in such a dangerous situation as world war ii and then the war you know the battle in narnia Like that's a lot for him to have to carry as as a as a kid. um
00:27:43
Speaker
So I thought, you know, again, Peter, like there's so much, the sibling dynamics are so well done in the book and in the movie. And Peter just was like,
00:27:56
Speaker
Peter, Peter's the older brother that i I think we all wish we had, like he is willing to make that sacrifice play and help his sibling. And you're going to hear about it afterwards, you're going to get yelled at for being selfish and you know, this and that. But he is going to be there for you. He is going to save you. And I think, you know, throughout the film, you always feel like he he's a scared kid, but he's always trying his best to do the right thing and take care of his family as best as he can. So, again, these these child actors are incredible all the way around. And I think, you know, they really kind of set a standard of what. child actors could do, especially at this time frame. I think this was like right around the same time as Harry Potter was coming out, maybe a little bit before or after the first movie. After.
00:28:45
Speaker
After. So they like, you know, we just were living in a golden age of child actors. We didn't even know it. Yeah. The same way that you relate with Susan as the older sibling a little bit. I definitely i was the oldest of my four siblings. And so, um and I think my sister had the same bob cut in her hair right around that time. so you know, it's a canon event. I definitely ah ah um relate with Peter throughout this film of, you know, the protective older sibling and trying to take on as someone whose mom passed away young. I had to take on more of the adult role young even then. yeah.
00:29:20
Speaker
I always felt that pressure a little bit, so I definitely related with him.
Iconic Performances: Aslan and the White Witch
00:29:23
Speaker
Aslan, the voice, of course, is Liam Neeson. It's iconic. like No notes, yeah. Yeah, no no notes. Exactly. there's There's nothing to say. He's just it's just iconic and incredible. And like I can't think of anybody that could have been a better Aslan. He has just has that power and the regality of a lion. like He's not just like some other animal. He's a lion. And he... is you know again like the christianness of it all like he is the jesus christ figure and like that has a lot of weight and he just like his performance you can hear him start to get sad when he talked like he knows he's gonna die and he has to die and you can hear in his voice him getting sad and then you can hear like he it was just an incredible bit of voice acting honestly
00:30:16
Speaker
A lot of his lines, you know do not recite the ah deep magic to me. I was there when it was written are all like, you know, things that pop into my head regularly with his voice. And when things are, you know, there's, there's a lot of videos online of it now, but it just goes through my head without any of that prompting either of just, you know, someone says something and it'll, it'll a whole bunch of his lines will start to trigger in my brain.
00:30:38
Speaker
So it definitely is a good performance. Yeah, I'm sure we'll talk about it more, too. But like, this is one of the things that like all the rumors about who is going to play Aslan, who's going to voice Aslan. I'm like, dude, you're you're joking, right? Like some of the people that they're throwing out, and like you because it's going to be directly talked about with the Harry Potter, Percy Jackson or whatever. It's going to be directly compared to this this film. And so you're going to have not Liam Neeson doing it. Like, what are we talking about right now? Like, it's so I find it very frustrating just because, again, I'm sure most of it is probably the nostalgia of growing up with this version. But I'm like, I don't think you can ever do better than that than Liam Neeson, like as the voice. Like, come on, people.
00:31:22
Speaker
Well, they're talking about the gender swap possibly of it, which, you know, doesn't really matter for a character that's entirely, um, construct in this world of, you know, it can be whatever. But I think that might be why they need to do that is because he's so iconic in this role that you kind of need to change it enough that everybody's like, oh, okay, let's look at this from a different light because it's not the same.
00:31:45
Speaker
so yeah My concern with it being swapped is a female lion doesn't have a mane. So when they're cutting the hair in the stone table scene, what are like? i'm Yeah, you can like shaver, but like what what like the impact is not the same as much. Yeah. yeah And it's just in the film. Sorry. They don't have to make it a female lion. So they could still make it a male lion with just a female voice actor playing the voice.
00:32:12
Speaker
doesn't have to be super feminine even. It can be a woman giving you know a voice that you there's a lot of female voice actors that play male characters. so You're not wrong, but I do think that Aslan, especially as like, you know, the king of the pride, the king of Narnia, um you know, lions are always, like the male lions are always so like regal. um And that just comes with needing to be a much deeper ethereal voice that I just don't think a woman could give the same effect. expect Like you said that line where he's like, I was there when it was written is like,
00:32:53
Speaker
it needs to, I don't know, it just needs to be a little bit more oomph. Yeah. We'll see. Well, and i not to be that guy, but, like, he's supposed to, he's a direct interpretation of Jesus Christ. So, like, that feels weird to me to take Jesus, like, regardless of if you're a Christian or not like an actual historical figure and like gender swap them, like that feels yucky to me on numerous levels, but I'm like, I'd rather we just stick with, like, there's a lot of characters that you could, again, like talking about Harry Potter, everything comes back to Harry Potter, but like, there's a lot of characters where you could switch the gender or the race or like any number of features about them. And it doesn't matter. I think Aslan
00:33:37
Speaker
being a male matters and he should be a male all the way through but we will see is there any character like if you were to gender swap a character in the story who would it be I mean, any of the kids you could swap, you know, it had like for the purposes of the story, it has to be two and two. But I think if you mean Lucy Lucas and Edmund, like Eden or whatever, like if you switched the boys and the girls, like I think it could be, you know, close enough. Mr. Tumnus could be Mrs. Tumnus like.
00:34:09
Speaker
professor kirk you know historically probably wouldn't be a ah woman but like you could you know give her make it an older woman living in an estate and it could and it wouldn't change anything i don't think like well you'd probably make that poly and not uh yeah that point you probably would just swap the character being used but we already know that they're they're definitely giving us um daniel craig as uh as Diggory in The Magistice Nephew so that's going to already be an iconic person in the role so yeah but ah yeah I just I feel like there's other there's other characters that they could switch and Aslan and again this is coming from me being a Christian being a believer in Jesus Christ as you know my lord and savior like it should I i strongly feel that it should be a male voice actor
00:35:01
Speaker
Would you not watch it if it was a female voice actor? I would i was still watch it. I would still give it a shot just to see because, you know, like you guys said, maybe it could still be, you know, um ah it could still work. It could. I would have a lot of issues with it. it would I would not like it right off the bat. I'm not going to be as excited for it. if ah You because the rumor, or I don't know if the official casting, but like is Meryl Streep. It's not official. It's the rumor. So, yeah still rumored. Like, the most recent rumor we have is that it's Meryl Streep. Like,
00:35:33
Speaker
i'm gonna be pissed if it actually ends up being meryl streep because that just doesn't sit right in my soul like i don't like anything about that but you know they could still tell this if everything else is like perfect then like maybe i could get over it yeah maybe but like it's gonna really hard the fact that it's ah like it's rumored to be meryl streep either yeah as much as i love her and she can do quote anything per her astronaut I think this is probably the one thing that she can't do. She can't do. I also love Meryl Streep, but like not not as a slant. There is a little bit of a tie there though, because Greta directed Barbie and
00:36:14
Speaker
ah Ryan played Ken in that film. How about Ryan Gosling for Aslan? Yeah, no. He's not regal enough as much as I love him. No, no. Yeah, no. um So I think part of the point of possibly swapping Aslan's gender in this is that this is supposed to be what you know the Jesus character could um ah show up at in a fantasy world. He's not a tame lion. He's not of, you know, in our world, he may be male in Narnia. He could be female in another one of those multiverse worlds. He could be androgynous entirely. You know, that's kind of the point too, is that this gender could be fluid in ah between those worlds as a being that isn't actually human or actually, you know, one of our characters fully a God like being.
00:37:02
Speaker
Yeah. We'll just have to see what happens and, um, You know, what route? I mean, we're not going to know more until we get more casting and more like a teaser and just more anything. Yeah. Which it's coming up in December. I mean, I, you know, November. So, I mean, I hope we see, you know a full trailer soon or something soon. Yeah. I don't even think like we don't, well, yeah. Like we don't even know who is Aslan. I don't even think we know who the kids are. Well, I think Daniel Craig and um Emma Mackey, think um are the only two confirmed characters we have.
00:37:36
Speaker
But that's like the adult versions of them. Or one of them is Jadis, right? Emma Mackey is Jadis. on. I just had it. so Yeah. Emma Mackey. Well, no, she's the white witch. But yes, Jadis. Carrie Mulligan, I think, is in it.
00:37:51
Speaker
And then Daniel Craig is Uncle Andrew. ah So maybe Carrie is. Oh, they do no they do. They have. Yeah. Carrie is. They're calling her Mabel. So that's his mom.
00:38:03
Speaker
Diggory's mom. that's Diggory's mom. And then Diggory is, yeah, David mac McKenna. So according to the casting here. they do have the kiss. Okay. At least one of them. IMBB is not up to date. Oh, Polly is Beatrice Campbell.
00:38:20
Speaker
So they do have quite a few of these. Tune into the May news episode where we actually cover this since we haven't so far. through Hopefully we'll see some more official news coming out soon that we can cover. Yeah.
00:38:36
Speaker
Okay, so speaking of the White Witch, in this 2005 version, she is played by Tilda Swinton. The ancient one.
00:38:48
Speaker
Yeah. She's got a very unique character. look to her in general so i thought it was really a good cast because the white witch is supposed to be a unique character like isn't she described as like very thin and very tall in the magician's nephew she's yeah she's half giant so she's like literally seven yeah half giant half jinn so she has magic and height she's still supposed to be like seven feet tall which I guess they saved their effects money for Aslan and didn't make her seven feet tall, which is fine. Like that doesn't bother Probably would have thrown the story off a little bit if she was just this awkwardly shaped woman on screen. Yeah. I better just let her be human appearance.
00:39:30
Speaker
But they do show her strength a little bit, like the scene where Edmund's in the dungeon. Like, she picks him up and you see his feet dangling like he's fully off the ground, which, like, obviously a normal woman would not be able to lift a a child of his age one-handed like that. um So, you know, you do get some some hints here and there that she is...
00:39:50
Speaker
other than just a human um but yeah she really her costumes in this are incredible like all of the like the battle costume where she's wearing as land's mean i'm like period that's what i was gonna mention earlier when we were talking about the shaving like it made such an impact when she shows up to the battle with that mean Yeah, yeah. um She, this is my first introduction to Tilda Swinton as an actor. And so now everything else that I've ever seen her in, I'm like, it's the White Witch. Oh my gosh. Like she, she, but she does like really melt into this role. And like, I really, she was really scary as a kid, especially like, I really believe that she was out here about to murder these kids. Yeah.
00:40:38
Speaker
She does have that menace and yeah, I think that she pulled off the role really well. um I didn't really know her at all at the time. I didn't care pay attention to that sort of thing at all. And, you know, the ancient one knowing the name now, I don't still don't know if I would have connected it if I didn't actually know it was her because of the way she kind of disappears into her roles pretty well. I mean, if you look, she's there, but you know, she tries to really embody her roles.
00:41:03
Speaker
I do remember like my mom having a ring having a reaction when she was cast. Because like I said, well, I guess, I don't know. ah okay I do remember my mom having a reaction to this because I was 15 at the time. So like twice as old as you at the time, Jordan. And so this was like big for us. Like we like like with Harry Potter, like we were into Harry Potter. I know that I had watched the BBC, so we were very excited. yeah.
00:41:28
Speaker
Obviously, I didn't know Tilda as much as my mom did at the time, but she was excited to see how Tilda Swinton would make the White Witch come to wife on screen. Yeah, and I thought she nailed it. Like you said, those costumes were amazing. I would like to see if they won any um Oscars for this at all. That's fair.
00:41:47
Speaker
All right, on the flip side of the evil white witch, we have the sweet Mr. Tumnus, played by James McAvoy, which is wild to see him so young on screen.
Supporting Characters: Mr. Tumnus and Professor Kirke
00:42:00
Speaker
Update there, they did win best makeup and best motion picture. There was definitely best costume. So, yeah, basically all the things you would expect. Okay, good, good, good, good. good Okay, hey won as speaking of makeup, I thought the centaurs were really interesting how they had their...
00:42:17
Speaker
They weren't human faces. um And then I think Mr. Tumnus, his nose was different. And I noticed like I was really noticing the makeup on James McAvoy, too. um But yeah, I'm glad they won all those awards because they deserved it.
00:42:32
Speaker
Yeah, so back to Thomas, but yeah, I think that he definitely, um well, I mean, that was an amazing costume for sure. And like, you know, this is the first fantasy character we see in this storyline. And so you get introduced to Lucy meeting this satyr.
00:42:51
Speaker
He calls himself a faun, but yes, he's a satyr. Yes. um And so she gets tasked to figure out what he is and figure out what this world is. And so I think he did a really good job of introducing her to the concept of Narnia in the first introduction there.
00:43:08
Speaker
Yeah. And he does such a great job to like, you know, being kind and friendly and like, oh, come and have tea with me. And then like him realizing what he's done and like, you know, or you know, feeling guilty about like, this is just a little girl. Like, she's so sweet and so kind. And You know, and I'm going to turn her over to this person that I know is evil. and I know wants to harm her like that's so unlike him wrestling with that guilt and then like his fear in the dungeon, like he just puts on a master performance, I think showing like all the different aspects of, you know, what people go through when they're in, you know.
00:43:47
Speaker
situations where they're being directly oppressed by an evil entity and like how do you navigate that you know it felt very especially with the world war ii connection it was like if you you know are living in germany and you know anne frank comes to your door are you going to turn her in to the secret police or are you going to help her escape and so like it that parallel of you know lucy is you know the hunted you know, person, the hunted race in this world. And you, ah he has to make the choice. Do I help her? Do I save her? Or do I turn her in to protect myself? um
00:44:23
Speaker
And, you know, he goes through all of that, like thought process, you know, really, really compelling. The playing of the music with the fire dancing was like one of my, I like, it wasn't, i don't think directly, might've been referenced slightly in the book, but I thought that visual was really cool.
00:44:43
Speaker
e and his line it's from the book and in the film but it's the line of even some of the trees are on her side is another one of those lines that sticks with me when i'm walking through the woods or something okay last character that i included on this list was professor kirk um played by jim broadbent and that's why i wanted to include him because when I finally made the realization like it clicked who this was I got so excited um it's so it's always fun to watch these older films and see like James McAvoy um you know come up and pop up and Jim Broadmeat of course he's in Harry Potter um
00:45:21
Speaker
And so a lot of ah other films that I really adore. So I'm really excited to see him very, you know, short scenes that he's in, but I think he nailed the endearing, mysterious uncle.
00:45:38
Speaker
surprisingly friendly for the way that he's described to them at first is do not disturb the professor and then yeah they disturb the professor and he's like oh hey kids how are you doing I love having you here yeah I'm like well of course you should believe I really love the scene of him talking to Peter and Susan like obviously you should believe your sister like she's not a liar she's not crazy like you know obviously you should believe her and like you know getting especially Susan to like turn her logic you know and look at things a different way and like open-minded and have that new perspective um I thought that was really he' really nailed that scene like you said very small scenes that he's in but when he was there you're like yeah this is somebody you know like he's it's
00:46:23
Speaker
family like it's somebody that i can trust and that i can go to when i need help and you know you know i want to explain my problems to him because he can help me work through it and figure it out i love the end scene where he's like try me like because he he is diggory he has been to these other worlds he knows the white witch like he you know as the white try me Yeah, it's all his fault, actually. Actually, everything is his fault. But like, cleaning up his mess, really. So yeah, truly. Like, you know, try me like that's just such a fun like, I hope when I'm old, I'm fun and like whimsical the way that he is
00:46:59
Speaker
um and then there's the uh credit scene and after that after they did a little thing and it was it's just him sitting in the corner of the room which i thought was like well that's a little weird but i guess you do that one of the kids was going to try to get back that way but also he was trying to get back in that way too i think yeah um and he basically tells luk has a little moment with lucy of oh we're probably not going to get back that way but you know let's keep our eyes open so um go ahead and spoil it for me how do they get back to narnia in the next book The next one being, um, is it a different way every single time?
00:47:31
Speaker
Um, yes. Uh, for the most part, um, the next one was a Prince Caspian and I believe they are just, uh, they're on the train or on the train platform and they just end up being magically transported back into that world.
00:47:47
Speaker
it was like, I don't think there's even a, um, a method that they get back and then in the voyage of the dawn treader lucy and edmund are staying with a cousin eustace and he they all see it they see a picture on the wall that looks like um a narnian ship to them and they're staring at this picture and then all of a sudden the picture starts moving and they find themselves standing on the ship with prince caspian as they are on the but on the dawn treader yeah Yeah. And then the Horson's boy, there was while they were still in the universe. That one happens. that That's a story that happens in universe while they're kings and queens of Narnia, all four of them.
00:48:28
Speaker
It talks about in The Magician's Nephew how Aslan has the power to summon people to Narnia just like with his roar. Oh, yes. So probably like they go through these various like portals, but it's at the summons of Aslan since like because the wardrobe, spoilers for Magician's Nephew, the wardrobe has the power of the rings that Uncle Andrew made. And that's how the wardrobe kind of like he buried the rings around this tree and then turned the tree into the wardrobes. I think that it has some like Narnian magic in the wood and that's how that is a portal. But I think these other ones,
00:49:07
Speaker
The apple came from Narnia. Yeah, the tree, the tree came. Yeah. The combination of the things. Yeah. Had like Narnia and magic. um But I think these other portals probably were more due to the fact that Aslan was like, OK, we need these guys back. Let's get them in here. Kind of a thing. But that's I think that's mostly why I hit my head cannon about it.
00:49:26
Speaker
um My biggest question from the magician's nephew is what about Atlantis? i the The beginning of this book talks about how his great aunt was a fae and was the last of the fairies and had this box from Atlantis you wanted him to destroy. And i'm like,
00:49:43
Speaker
Tell me that story. Somebody go back and write that story. Cause I want to learn about like our world's other connections to this other realm. And it has so much, like I want, I want to go back and start reading CS Lewis fan fiction from this say ah whole area. is I want to be like, okay, yeah, let's tell more stories in Narnia. Let's see this world more. I want to, its these books don't give me enough. I want more. So yeah give me the prequels of the prequel. Yeah. Give me everything.
00:50:09
Speaker
Give me all the years they lived as Kings and Queens in Narnia. Just give me a TV show. Yes. I mentioned earlier the animosity between Edmund and Peter was heightened in the movie. Was there any other changes in character arcs that you guys noticed or wanted to touch on before we wrap up here?
00:50:36
Speaker
Did Mr. and Mrs. Beaver have a little bit of a different dynamic between the two of them? I kind of felt when I was watching the film last night that they were a little more, i mean, they were fine, but I felt like their dynamic might have been changed a little bit.
00:50:47
Speaker
I mean, I think they just had more, I think they just had more and like lines and more direct interaction with the kids because a lot of the story is told third person for the most part. Like you occasionally you get into like Edmund's head when he's walking from the beaver's house to the the witch's house. Like he, like you get some of his thoughts of like, when I'm king, I'm going to install a road system because there's no roads here. Like that kind of thing.
00:51:15
Speaker
um So, but I think the Beavers just had like more actual speaking in the film than in the book where it, you know, it's mostly focused on like the kids and some like their internal thoughts. And, you know, it's told third person, like the Beavers said, whatever, versus this movie gave them like personalities. Yeah.
00:51:37
Speaker
Yeah, I think otherwise the characters were pretty well, well represented. don't think there was too much else. Okie dokie. Well, thanks for joining us listeners on part one of The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe when we covered the introduction of the book and the cast. Next episode we will be and diving into the plot. So stay tuned, give us a follow, and we will see you next week. See you through the wardrobe. So much content, so little time.
00:52:09
Speaker
That's a wrap for this week's episode of book watch. We hope you enjoy diving into the world of page to screen adaptations with us. If you love this episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a rating and review wherever you listen and share it with a fellow book and movie lover.
00:52:24
Speaker
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00:52:41
Speaker
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00:53:03
Speaker
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00:53:25
Speaker
Until next time. Keep reading. Keep watching. And we will see you next week.