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E014 Gary Grant, Jr.
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Gary Grant, Jr. was only seven years old when his life was tragically taken. Thrown out confessions, haunting messages, and peculiar 911 calls are all pieces to the complex puzzle of the case Maggie and Allison bring you this week.
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Transcript
The Echo of Life
00:00:01
Speaker
There's a theory about life that compares it to an echo. When you yell, I love you into a canyon, you hear, I love you back. When you yell, I hate you into that same canyon, you hear back, I hate you.
00:00:21
Speaker
What we put into the world is generally speaking what we get in return. People are usually the same. When you put kind actions into your daily interactions with others, you will generally get kindness back. Deal only in anger with others, and anger tends to be the response. This is why Maggie and I as teachers vow to put as much good, as much empathy, as much love into this world as we can.
Innocence and Betrayal
00:00:52
Speaker
We want to think that if we are better, then we can make the world better. Sometimes, unfortunately though, the world has ideas of its own. Sometimes all you give is love, yet you get mistreated as a response. We hurt as a whole when the love we betray is innocence.
00:01:19
Speaker
when we mistreat a kindness that doesn't question nor betray, the goodness of a child. Politician Tom Allen said, quote, I think we have a moral obligation to our children that can be easily summarized. Number one, protect them from harm. End quote. That's it. Innocent children need adult ambassadors to fight for them.
00:01:47
Speaker
But that protection can't take breaks, because danger doesn't. I only wish that the child in our case today had only heard kind words. I love yous, and it's going to be okay, instead of witnessing acts of violence and hatred. Harm came uninvited to him one evening in January of 1984.
00:02:16
Speaker
and his family is still searching the answers to who betrayed the trust of a child and perhaps even more confounding why.
The Tragic Story of Gary Grant Jr.
00:02:26
Speaker
This is the story of Gary Grant Jr.
00:02:47
Speaker
So.
00:03:07
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases, where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement.
00:03:23
Speaker
so justice and closure can be brought to these families. With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because, as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week. Gary Grant Sr. and his wife, May, welcomed a bouncing baby boy into this world on March 8,
00:03:53
Speaker
1976. With two daughters already, the Atlantic City, New Jersey family felt complete. And busy. Very busy.
Family Dynamics and Safety
00:04:05
Speaker
Gary Grant Sr. spent hours and hours making sure not only his own family but others in their middle-class neighborhood felt safe since he was a police detective in the area. So like who better to look out for your family, right? And you have in your neighborhood. Exactly.
00:04:21
Speaker
Even though years later, when their youngest child, Gary Grant Jr., was only seven years old, Gary Sr. and his wife Mae divorced, the need to protect his children and to spend time with them did not end. So he remained active in their life. Yes, both Gary Sr. and Mae were actively co-parenting the children and were actively, as you said Maggie, involved in the activities that the children enjoyed.
00:04:49
Speaker
Gary Sr. even coached basketball at the Our Lady Star of the Sea School where Gary Jr. attended and he would often have his son help him out at practices.
00:05:02
Speaker
So is this like a private school? Cause that's a weird name. I am guessing so. Yeah, that is an odd, it sounds like a, almost like a parochial school, yeah. So when according to an article by Linda Cohen, one of Gary Senior's daughters interrupted the basketball practice to ask her dad if he had seen little Gary. Oh, little Gary. I know, he knew something was wrong.
00:05:24
Speaker
Based on every source I read, Maggie, the day had started out as a wonderful day, especially because it was a day off from school to accommodate for the teachers to be able to use the day for parent-teacher conferences. Yes. This is a phenomenal idea. Or grading paper. Or that.
00:05:42
Speaker
So for most kids, Gary Jr. included, this was a day to look forward to playing with friends, right? So he gets the day off,
The Mysterious Appointment
00:05:50
Speaker
right? And it's a welcomed break in the middle of a school week, which is, again, sounds wonderful. I'm all for it. It seemed to his mother, May, that little Gary, though, already had a plan for this day.
00:06:03
Speaker
See Gary Jr. had a lot of friends in the neighborhood including a little girl down the street who he had a crush on. So when little Gary announced at the table that Thursday
00:06:18
Speaker
that he would be out playing all day and that he had an appointment at 2.30. May assumed that that was his way of referring to a date with his girlfriend. He's got an appointment. And Maggie, I totally get this. I've never told you this story but one time a few years ago I was helping my little sleuthound straighten her bedroom.
00:06:40
Speaker
And she was about seven or eight at the time. And I came across this change purse, right? And I was like, I could see that on the bottom side of it, there was a piece of paper that was taped to it. And I was like, what the heck is this? So I flip it over and there was money in it. And on the piece of paper that was attached, little Slootown had written, quote, to be saved for when time travel is possible.
00:07:06
Speaker
She had written on it. So like, I mean, where does this have come from? But at that age, you know, kids say... They're so imaginative. Exactly. They say and do the strangest and the funniest things. So I totally get why when he had said appointment that his mom had just kind of laughed it off thinking that was his way of keeping this
00:07:29
Speaker
you know, little meeting with a girl secret. In fact, in one interview, his mother May said, quote, I was asking him with who, right, he had this appointment, and he said it was a secret. So I thought, you know, it's silly, you know, he's a little boy, something to do maybe with his little girlfriend around the corner or something, so I left it at that. He wanted to go out and play, so he got dressed, and he went out to play, end quote.
00:07:57
Speaker
So I'm guessing that this quote-unquote appointment wasn't as innocent as what his mom may have thought it to be. Right and that's what we're thinking now because it wasn't until later that both his mother and his father began to question his use of that word.
00:08:13
Speaker
When Gary bounded out of the house at noon though and promised to be home by four, right, this is what he tells his mom, Mae didn't question him, right? She was like, okay, he does this all the time. And this is a different time too. Exactly. And he had always returned home when he was supposed to.
00:08:30
Speaker
And she said, I loved this, that she knew he would return because, and I quote, he liked his dinner. And Maggie, me too. I feel you, literary. I'm not missing dinner. I love food. I'll be back. Anthony's like, oh, I didn't eat lunch today. And I'm like.
00:08:46
Speaker
Excuse me, how could you not? Right, how could you miss something that important? We have all of five minutes to eat and I eat in five minutes. Or stuff our faces as for like in between asking questions. Today we're talking about characterism. Well four o'clock came though and it went and no Gary Jr. No,
The Search Begins
00:09:07
Speaker
no. And at first May wasn't really
00:09:10
Speaker
Worried right because like right he's only seven he'd been so excited to hang out with his friends And I mean really how much do kids pay attention to the time right? They're not gonna be like oh 359 phone she can text him and be like don't forget Exactly, you know a watch just set a reminder or whatever exactly but then 430 passed and no Gary
00:09:36
Speaker
Well, after trying to be patient and wait by the door, Mae decided to walk down the street to the home where two of his friends lived and ask the girls, one of which was the little girl he had a crush on, if they had seen Gary Junior. When she saw the little girls, they told Mae that Gary Junior had been there, but that he had left and when he did, he said he needed to be home by 4.30, that he was on his way home. So she goes back home and she's like, okay, maybe I just missed him. She gets back.
00:10:06
Speaker
He's not there. Oh, I would be in panic mode. When she had not heard from Gary by 6.30 and he had missed supper. We got a problem. Right. She knew she had to reach out to Gary Sr. and let him know. Yeah. And that leads us, Maggie, to that moment when I mentioned to you that one of Gary Sr.'s daughters came to the school looking for her brother and asking if her father had seen him.
00:10:34
Speaker
Well Maggie, after Gary Senior's daughter came by, he received a phone call from his ex-wife, May, letting him know that Gary was missing. So not only did his daughter go to tell him. So did the mom send the daughter to the dad? I didn't read anywhere that she did. So I wonder where that communication came from. Right. Must have known that he was missing.
00:10:56
Speaker
Gary Senior, remember, he's a police detective. He was supposed to go in that night at midnight to begin his shift, but he ended up calling off of work to search for his son instead, which, again, I would totally do. And I'm sure he never imagined, Maggie, that when he made the career decision to become a police detective, that one of the cases he would be investigating would involve his own child.
00:11:20
Speaker
Can you do that? We're going to get to that. We're going to get to that because that's a wonderful question. Gary Senior himself searched until one to two a.m. before the rest of the Atlantic City police force. Why does it take so long? I guess, I don't know. You'd think with a child that young it would be
00:11:39
Speaker
Yeah, because even though we talked about this, I think with the Amy Mahalovic case, when Anthony and I went to Washington, I asked how quickly FBI becomes involved in cases, and he said with children, it's almost immediately. Right. I feel like it should be faster than that. Right, because we knew at 6.30. Yeah. That's when she's at least contacting him, and then I guess they would then go to file that formal report. So maybe there was a, yeah. Like a five hour, which is pretty,
00:12:08
Speaker
but I mean as a parent you're gonna feel like that's forever. What was probably one of the hardest parts, and this is what you were talking about Maggie, though it gets a little tricky later on. You'll see why here in a minute. What was probably one of the hardest parts for Gary Sr. had to have been when due to quote-unquote regulations and
00:12:28
Speaker
he had to be taken off of the search. Like even as just a volunteer, like as a parent. Well now he did continue on his own but he couldn't be an official representative. He could be there as like the dad. Right and so he wasn't privy to any of that police info and all that and that had to be hard too as a police detective and this is your own child
00:12:52
Speaker
I'd be like sneaking into the file. Like Tom Cruise movies, like you're hanging down on a wire, stepping over the laser beams to get the info. And so even though he did continue on his own, like I said, I never even thought until we started talking about how hard it would be for that to be your job as a detective and not be able to put in that same effort
00:13:21
Speaker
into the search for your own child, to have access to the same resources. Yeah, because I feel like you would be super on top of every tip that came in, every clue. Right, and he did still continue, as I mentioned, and I would have as well, to interview anyone and everyone who had mentioned having spent time with his son that Thursday. Okay. Right, so if he hears something, he can still, as a person. Just go ask. Right, and so he did.
00:13:48
Speaker
Craig Barry reported in an article that Gary Sr. had literally gone door to door distributing pictures of his little boy and asking if anyone had seen anything. And I can only imagine that the pictures he passed out would be like this one Maggie.
00:14:05
Speaker
One that Usulootowns will post on all of our social media for you to see his precious face. And it's so precious. He's missing the little teeth and it's oh my god he's so cute. He's got these chubby cheeks and all his dark brown hair. He's so cute.
00:14:21
Speaker
In an interview, Gary Sr. said of his search, quote, I started searching every possible place I could think of. I started searching abandoned houses. I started searching underneath the boardwalk. I started searching arcades and questioning people who were working in the arcades. By Friday night, it started getting dark again and still no sign or no word of Gary.
00:14:45
Speaker
I started then looking in alleyways and trash cans and dumpsters. The streets can be pretty mean for an adult, let alone for a seven-year-old child. And by that time, I was fearing the worst." I think that would be so sad to get to the realization that you were
00:15:08
Speaker
no longer looking for a missing child or your missing child, but maybe your deceased child. Yeah, I can't imagine how that switch happens in your head. Yeah, how you ever give up. But I mean, I guess eventually you have to.
00:15:25
Speaker
Try to face. Right, reality. I don't know if I ever would. Right. And we mentioned this earlier, that word appointment just kept ringing in Gary Senior's ears. According to an interview in an article by Linda Cohen, Gary Senior stated, quote, someone had to tell him to say that. Seven-year-olds don't talk like that. Yeah, I feel like an appointment is like the word appointment.
00:15:52
Speaker
is a pretty mature word for a seven-year-old. Yeah, because he might have said, oh, I have a date, or I have, I don't know. I don't even know. A meeting. Yeah, I just feel like even that wordage, I have a meeting I have to go to. That's true. It's just strange for a kid that young. Yeah, an appointment sounds super official. Yeah, I feel like someone would have to say, tell your parents you have an appointment. Right. Because where's he gonna hear that phrase?
00:16:23
Speaker
Right, other than like a doctor's appointment or something. Right, right. Well Maggie, the story of a missing child spread quickly throughout the neighborhood both by word of mouth and from an article that ran in the paper. So at least in newspaper the media is getting involved. It's picking it up. Yes. One man, the New Jersey Commissioner of Environmental Protection, his name was Robert Huey, recognized that the area from which the boy had gone missing was near a warehouse he owned.
00:16:49
Speaker
decided to aid in the search. So there's a warehouse in this subdivision? Right, it's in this neighborhood. And what gave Huey pause was that on that day, right, when this disappearance happened, that he was reading about in the paper, he had seen a young boy walking in the lots beside his warehouse, but obviously it thought nothing of it because according to him, kids cut through his lot all the time to get to a nearby park.
00:17:15
Speaker
I just keep having to remind myself that this was a different time because I'm trying to picture when I become a parent, letting my seven year old freely wander through a neighborhood. And I will say, times obviously are different now. I mean, even 20 years ago, you would probably let your kid walk down the street or ride a bike around the neighborhood to get to a friend's house.
00:17:45
Speaker
it makes me more nervous today. Yeah, because even at Outmont and Anthony's subdivision is a nice subdivision, and I see kids all the time riding their bikes back and forth, and I'm like, never with mine. Right. Well, so, I mean, he had seen these kids cut through all the time, but he was reminded of the fact that he saw a little boy walking through it when he read this newspaper article, so he decided, you know what, it's worth checking out. Yeah. Right.
00:18:14
Speaker
According to an article by Philip Shannon from January 16, 1984, at school the next day, Gary Junior's teacher at our Lady Star of the Sea School, Connie Kirk, struggled with what to say to her class about Gary's disappearance.
00:18:31
Speaker
Ultimately, she decided not to speak of it to the children, thinking that she would instead let the individual families determine the best way to handle this conversation with their children. And Maggie, how would you even begin to explain why such an outgoing and loving little boy was just gone? Because I can't imagine how to explain that to adults, let alone how to explain it to his seven and eight year old classmates.
00:19:01
Speaker
Part of me gets it, but then part of me wants to say, was the school involved? Were his friends questioned? Because maybe they knew who this appointment was with. Maybe they know more than what he would tell his mom. And then the more you shelter, maybe it's also unanswered questions. Yeah, you miss the information. Well, the good news is that you listeners, the ones involved in the story,
00:19:26
Speaker
are adults today. And so even if somebody didn't speak with you at the time, if there's something that you remember. It's never too late to say. No, never too late to say, you know what, nobody ever asked me this. But I remember. Right. Here's something that I recall from that time. At 3.30 on Saturday, January 14th, Robert Huey arrived at his warehouse to begin searching his property.
00:19:53
Speaker
And it wasn't long before he contacted police about a disturbing discovery. In an empty lot at the warehouse, less than two blocks from Gary Junior's home, there lay his lifeless body wrapped in a rug. Gary Junior had been beaten to death with a lead pipe that also still lay nearby.
Discovery and Devastation
00:20:21
Speaker
That is very violent. Very violent. Right about the time that the police arrived at the scene, Gary Sr. had been driving by. And when he saw all of the lights, yes, from the cars, he knew what that must mean. And years on the job had taught him what a crime scene looks like from afar. So Gary Sr. came running and had to be restrained.
00:20:50
Speaker
when he got close enough to realize that it was his baby boy being cradled in that rug. And that literally breaks my heart for him. I love the relationship that you see between dads and their kids. And that just, I think that shatters my heart for him. It breaks my heart for his dad. I can't imagine that.
00:21:17
Speaker
knowing what it is before you even get up on the scene. Well I feel like there's things like, like I always knew with my mom, like picked me up unexpectedly from school. Something was wrong. Right. And so then it's like that dread when you're trying to figure out, and I can remember like
00:21:35
Speaker
One day she picked me up, like met me at the bus stop, and normally she wouldn't do that when I was older, and so immediately, like the first question I said was, who died? And I was like, it's Poppy, okay? Like I'm going through all these people. So I can only imagine if it's your child and you come to that realization. I don't know. And Maggie, there's no consolation.
00:21:58
Speaker
that you can say to a parent who loses a child, no matter how that loss occurs. I mean, I feel like we need to be so much better as a society at learning how to help parents to deal with that loss at the same time that we have to recognize that unless you have experienced that pain firsthand, in my opinion, you can't understand what that pain feels like. Yeah, I think, because my mom always says about my brother,
00:22:28
Speaker
Parents should never have to bury a child. It breaks, I don't even know how to say it. Everything that you think is right about the world. Yeah, it breaks the normal pattern of things. Parents should be buried by their child, not the opposite way around. Right, and to me that has to be the deepest pain that one can feel. And I pray for the healing of everyone who knows the depth of that kind of ache.
00:22:57
Speaker
And the only consolation, and I hate to even use that word, Maggie, because like I just said, there's no real consolation, was that there was an early lead toward catching the person police believed was responsible. One young boy interviewed by the police in the search for Gary Jr. reported that he had seen Gary with a 12-year-old boy from the neighborhood named Carl Mason.
00:23:23
Speaker
That's a pretty big age difference to be playing. 7 and 12, yes. Carl stated that he himself had seen Gary near the junior high and admitted that on Wednesday, the day before the disappearance, he had been riding bikes with Gary to the Texas Avenue Park.
00:23:41
Speaker
He also admitted, as reported by the television show Unsolved Mysteries, that he had made plans to, on Wednesday, meet up again with Gary on Thursday, but that Gary had not shown up. But why are you playing with a seven-year-old? Well, I'm gonna get to that.
00:23:59
Speaker
In direct contrast, however, there were several children and others in the neighborhood who had said that they had seen Gary Jr. with Carl on Thursday. So Carl's saying, yeah, we were supposed to meet up on Thursday, but I never showed up. Or an appointment, perhaps. But then all these other people are saying, no, I saw them together. And I'm so bad about this, though, because, you know,
00:24:26
Speaker
Here's what goes through my mind. Rodney and I will be talking and I'll say something like, oh, I started working on our taxes last week. And he'll be like, Alison, you started them two and a half weeks ago. I'll be like the other day I did this and it's like six years ago. And I'm like, did I like hasn't been that long?
00:24:44
Speaker
And so part of me is thinking, you know, here's why I'm torn. I think that some of the things that we discussed in the Kettie murder episode, remember when we were talking about people who witnessed the potential murders in the bar and they would have seen them and remembered seeing them, but they might not have remembered when.
00:25:04
Speaker
I wonder if seeing Gary and Karl together on Wednesday, are they, when they're asked later, are they like, nope, I saw them together and it was Thursday? Because I feel like, okay, even us, like if the attendance lady says was so and so at school yesterday, unless I had like
00:25:23
Speaker
something happened in your class or like that kid says something really funny or you know, something memorable happened, I'm not gonna remember, oh yeah, he was in class. Like you know what I mean? Does that make sense? Right. And so that's where I'm torn on this. Right.
00:25:41
Speaker
Well, the police did call Carl's grandmother. He lived with his grandmother and had her bring him to the police station at midnight on the 14th. So very late. The police interviewed this 12 year old boy separated from his grandmother. Is that legal?
00:25:58
Speaker
Well, we'll get to the problems with that in a second. For three straight hours, drilling him with questions. I would be like, first off, I'm cranky when I don't have enough sleep. So you're gonna get a bunch of attitude for me if you're keeping me up that late at nine. And this is a 12-year-old for three hours. No, ma'am. At 3 a.m., after those grueling hours of questioning and after not consulting his grandmother about their right to hire a lawyer,
00:26:28
Speaker
Carl finally said that he had hit Gary Jr. and had left when Gary fell and didn't move. But if you don't read the Miranda rights to people, is all of that? I don't really know all of the legalities, but don't you have to tell them that they have that right? You do. Or if things that they say are dismissed, like they can be dismissed? Yes, and that is, you're gonna hear that here in just a minute.
00:26:57
Speaker
Well, Unsolved Mysteries reported that the police decided that Carl, quote, knew things only the killer would know, end quote. And they, the police, typed up a confession for Carl and his grandmother to sign. And apparently, Carl kept saying that he didn't kill his friends. That's what he kept repeating. But he thought that signing the form would mean that he would get to go home.
00:27:25
Speaker
Okay, so a lot of this is just wrong to me because I'm thinking about all of, so I teach freshmen, so you're like 14, so you're really not that much older than the car. No, no. So I'm thinking about my kids in an interrogation room alone. One, you're going to be, I don't care who you are, you're going to be scared. I'd be terrified. Yes, I'd be weeping. Innocent, I would be terrified.
00:27:49
Speaker
without a guardian, you know, what's in there, you're with, I'm sure, fully clothed, like not plain dress, police officers, I'm like sure, in full uniform, and you're tired. It's 3 a.m. I mean, most of them are probably gonna be confused, and so if they're like, well, if I could go home and go to bed, just give me the paper to sign. Right, and Maggie, you're gonna get as up in arms about this as I am, because there's a detail that I haven't told you yet. Oh, Lord.
00:28:15
Speaker
I know from the outside, to some people, it might seem like Carl is guilty of killing his friend, right? He keeps saying he didn't, but then eventually he says, okay, I did. I hit him until he didn't move.
00:28:28
Speaker
And I understand that what I'm going to tell you doesn't necessarily mean that Carl didn't kill him. It's not a detail that doesn't mean that that fact couldn't be true. But it makes me even more concerned about the tactics used by the police. Carl Mason was developmentally challenged.
00:28:52
Speaker
Even though he was five years older than Gary, and you noted that age difference, he was smaller in height and weight, and he had an IQ of 65. Which would mean, in terms of everyday tasks, he could learn
00:29:10
Speaker
to care for himself and could perform routine jobs and eventually could live and care for himself independently. But Maggie, I'm talking about the possibilities, the potentials when he's an adult. And at the time, he's just a child himself. So even though there's an age difference, they're much more on the same level. So mentally, there's not that big of a difference. Right.
00:29:34
Speaker
And so I feel like, if that's the case, there should have been even more precautions than things put into place for this interrogation with a child that... Again, instead of taking your guardian away and interrogating you for three hours. Yeah, because I think about like in school, the accommodations that are made for students who are developmentally challenged. I'm thinking they get a reader, they get an interpreter, they get all of this. Maybe he didn't understand the questions that were being asked.
00:30:02
Speaker
Yep, and according to Carl himself, here's what he had to say about the confession. Quote, I didn't have anything to do with his murder. The one cop said, if you admit that you did it, we'll let you go home. So me, at the age of 12, I was so tired and I said, if you say so, but I didn't.
00:30:23
Speaker
Then next thing I knew, I wind it up in a home." End quote. And Maggie, what he said is what happened. Even though the police later admitted that Carl's answers in that late night interview were quote inconsistent and that his quote, memories changed. I'm sure because of the anxiety and stress, he signed the paper confession that police typed up because he and his grandmother were told that they could return home.
00:30:52
Speaker
once the papers were signed, but instead of going home, Carl was taken immediately to a juvenile detention center and charged with the murder of his good friend Gary Jr. So, my question, okay, another question, again, because I don't know. So, if somebody, we'll just say George, murders Tammy, and he confesses to it to the police, does he write his statement
00:31:21
Speaker
or did the police write his statement? I feel like I've seen on documentaries, some that are typed, but I feel like the majority of them are handwritten. But I guess if you have someone who is somehow, I guess the police find incapable of writing. So maybe because he was so young, they hate the police did it for him? And they just asked him to sign it? So the action though, is it always completed by the police or is it usually completed by the individual? Like the individual types out
00:31:52
Speaker
their confession of guilt. I think if it's typed, it would be typed by the police. And then it would be read to the person to ask for any changes. Okay. I was just wondering if it was weird that they did it and that he didn't do it. But I think a lot of them are handwritten. The whole thing is handwritten. By the? By an adult. Okay. The person who's being accused. Right. Okay. Or is giving a confession.
00:32:16
Speaker
The first day in the detention center, Carl was given a polygraph test. And no surprise here, especially given the inconsistent answers that he had given at the police station, the results were inconclusive. A second polygraph test was given as a follow up the following Wednesday on the 18th, which was again,
00:32:41
Speaker
inconclusive. The one question though Maggie that was asked of Carl on both tests that did not show signs of deception when he stated that he did not kill Gary Jr. Again I just go back to students that I have interacted with or just people I know personally that I have interacted with
00:33:07
Speaker
that may be developmentally challenged, and I don't see them lying about something like that. It's just too innocent. There's too much innocence there. Well, what the police and Gary Sr. are now convinced of is that they believe that perhaps Carl wasn't directly involved in the death, but maybe he knows more about the death.
00:33:30
Speaker
than he's letting on, maybe even having seen the crime take place. That's kind of where I was feeling too, or what I was feeling too, when you were giving some details.
00:33:41
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. So maybe the fear that could lead to inconsistent answers. The confusion, maybe. Exactly. But in Linda Cohen's article, we find that about a month later, Superior Court Judge John Hemelberger threw out the confession. Well, good. That's what we're talking about.
A False Confession
00:33:58
Speaker
Saying that Carl Mason's testimony was, or signed confession, was unreliable and could not be admitted into evidence. And without it, the case was dropped and Carl was freed.
00:34:12
Speaker
And after all, we know Maggie, we were just talking about this, none of the statements made in it were voluntary. Now what we do know is that Carl's brother had been arrested on robbery charges and Gary Sr. believes wholeheartedly that Carl's brother had something to do with his son's death. He thinks
00:34:35
Speaker
that Carl's brother had been wanting to use children in the neighborhood to aid in his robbery schemes. I don't know. I didn't read anything about how. I don't know if he was going to send the kids in because they could fit in smaller spaces or like use them to distract the homeowners or something like that.
00:34:51
Speaker
but Gary Seniors convinced that he was wanting to use children in these robbery schemes and that maybe he had approached Gary Jr. who would have refused knowing it's wrong. Right. And it's his belief that Carl's brother then killed him to keep him quiet about the scheme, which again seems extreme.
00:35:11
Speaker
The problem is that all of this is just speculation. And Gary Sr. wasn't allowed to be an active part of the case to even know if this were a viable lead. Right? Because he doesn't have the access to that information. I wonder, did he tell people his suspicions? Like, he could still say, like, like a tip or whatever about this guy. Right. And again, like, obviously we're not saying any names because he's not a named suspect.
00:35:40
Speaker
Well, Gary Sr. noted in an interview with Anne McGrath for an article published on February 22, 1986, quote,
00:36:00
Speaker
I decided then, maybe it was time to do something. I'm sitting here, nothing's happening, and meanwhile, my son's in his grave." And I'm sure that would be like this driving force. Yeah, I need justice. You've got to do something. So in 1986, the Atlantic City Police Chief Joseph Pascal reassigned
00:36:23
Speaker
Gary Sr. to the case, but the prosecutor in Atlantic County, Jeffrey Blitz, he questioned this choice saying, quote, in my judgment, it's inappropriate for the father of the victim to be a member of the investigation team, end quote. What's your opinion on this, Meg? I'm torn. I feel like you would have to be a very
00:36:47
Speaker
particular kind of person you would have to be able to separate emotions from facts because I think it would be very easy to jump at the first suspect and say oh yeah you killed my son you killed my son just because you so badly want that justice for your child
00:37:03
Speaker
I think it would be really hard to step back and look at it with a critical eye and make sure that you were really taking in all the facts and not just jumping for peace. I couldn't separate. I don't think I could do it, but maybe with the training and stuff like that, he felt he could, but I don't think I could do it. I couldn't. Well, what I will say is that I cannot imagine
00:37:29
Speaker
What Linda Cohen reported that Gary Sr., when he was not inside into the case, was having to do, and that was to still drive those same streets in the neighborhood that he patrolled near where his son was found. Like I can't imagine having to drive by it. Every single day. Every day. And in fact, Gary Sr. stated in an interview that, quote, I had to ride by the park. God only knows how many times a day.
00:37:58
Speaker
end quote and that had to be so hard not to mention the fact that as a detective himself as we were just talking about he would be the first to notice leads that he thought should be followed up on that weren't being followed up on. Right but are they true leads or are they just
00:38:20
Speaker
like thinks he wants to be a lead, you know? Well, I'll give you an example. He noted, for instance, that quote, the gentleman who found the body was never even interviewed. Excuse me? Not until I went to his house and interviewed him, end quote. So, I mean, I think when he's saying that, there are some cases when he has like legitimate concerns for saying these are leads that should be followed up on. And I feel like that's like a,
00:38:47
Speaker
Like a no-brainer, you interview the dude that finds the body. Right. Exactly. Because it's his warehouse, one. And two, he found the body. Right. But as Cohen noted in that article, that's when Grant said, and this is Grant Sr., said that he was pulled off of the case entirely. So once he starts being like, you know what, if you're not going to follow up on a lead, I'm going to follow up on the lead.
00:39:12
Speaker
quote, I understand that there are some things you have to distance yourself from as a cop, he said. Even when I was following the investigation on my own, if I thought there was one inkling the person could become a suspect, I wouldn't talk to them. I advised major crimes of every single contact I made or anyone who made contact with me. It wasn't reciprocal, end quote. So I think basically,
00:39:41
Speaker
Gary Sr. said, you know, he tried to, he would interview people, but as soon as he thought, oh, there's something sketchy about this person, he would withdraw himself from the situation. Oh, and let someone else? Give that tip to the major crimes unit.
00:39:56
Speaker
and have them follow up, but I guess he expected information about that follow up in return. And he did not get it. And he didn't get it. And so he tried to be as professional as possible, but I mean, he is still a father first and foremost. And what had to have been the hardest yet is the taunting that came. On January 4th, 1986, at 3 a.m.,
00:40:23
Speaker
A call came in that someone had spotted a message written on the side of a police cruiser. This message read, quote, Gary Grant is dead. I am living. Another will die on January 12th, 1986 if all goes right, end quote. Oh my God. And that date that was written January 12th,
00:40:52
Speaker
was predicting another death on the same day that Gary Jr. had been murdered.
00:40:59
Speaker
Was it the father's police car that the car was left on? No, no, but a police cruiser. And a few weeks after that, yet another message was found. This one was found scratched in a sidewalk. So this took some time, like taking a rock, scratching into a sidewalk. I assume a rock, whatever would cut into the surface. And it read, quote, Gary Grant Jr. lives. I still killed him.
00:41:30
Speaker
Son of a pig officer. Payback is an M-F." End quote. That one, one, sounds a little more angry. Yes. Two, what is it talking about? And I question that myself. I think he's saying like he lives because his killer still lives, like the memory. Oh, okay. I don't know. That might be a little deep though. That might be a little like,
00:41:59
Speaker
I also find it very interesting that what MF stands for was not written. It literally said M period F period. Which makes me kind of think that maybe this was like a younger person. That's what it makes me think too. Because it's like they don't want to say it. Right. Spell it out. Right. So we're just going to put the initials so you know what I'm talking about. And the grammar is so bad.
00:42:29
Speaker
Right, obviously. Like, Grant Jr. lives. I still killed him. Son of a pig officer. What's that even mean? I don't know. Was Gary senior liked in the community? From everything that I read, I didn't read that he had any enemies. But he is an officer, so he is arresting people.
00:42:51
Speaker
This quote, they just almost seem like they come from two different people. I agree. And a lot of people think that, because of that second one, that Gary Jr. might have been killed by someone who his father had arrested and who was angry that they had been caught. You gotta be a really bad, I'm sorry, you gotta be a bad person if that's the reason you kill a child, is because their father arrested you. Yes. And now, in addition to the anger that Gary Senior himself must have felt, right, because his child was murdered,
00:43:21
Speaker
there had to have been a twinge, admittedly undeserving, of guilt. Oh, definitely. Especially with that second message. According to Gary Sr. at the time, quote, from what I observed on the car, it appeared to me that it was written on there by an adult. However, as far as ever finding out who did it, we've never found that out, end quote. And Maggie, we still don't know who wrote those messages.
00:43:51
Speaker
all this time we still have no idea all this time and i'm with you i the first part the first message the only reason i would say that's more of an adult is because of the way that the date is written because i feel like children would be more likely to spell out the month yeah right instead of putting like
00:44:14
Speaker
the number slash day slash year. Yeah, because I'm trying to think like when I started doing that. Like because I know in elementary school we always had to ride it out. Right. And so, but that second one I'm with you. For some reason they don't jive. They don't seem like they're from the same person. Eventually it got to be too much for Gary Sr. and you know he's looking at this every day. So he got
00:44:41
Speaker
as far away as possible. He actually retired to Puerto Rico, but he never stopped searching for justice. Even though we're now 36 years later, Atlantic County prosecutor Damon Tyner is still searching for answers as well. In fact, in an article just published on January 15th of 2019, so just last year,
00:45:04
Speaker
Entitled 35 years later, seven-year-old's murder remains unsolved in AC. The writer noted that Tyner was 13, so this Atlanta County prosecutor was 13 at the time of the murder and attended the same school as Gary Jr.
00:45:21
Speaker
he said, quote, I remember Gary Jr. not being at my basketball practice because he was missing. I remember it like it was yesterday. It was heightened fear at that time at school because a little kid was missing and that kind of thing just didn't happen, end quote. Didn't we also, it wasn't at the kettie murder also that
00:45:44
Speaker
Or maybe not, but didn't we do another case that somebody knew or was alive at that time and they were then the investigator? It was the Kettie murder case because one of the investigators had been friends with Dana, right, with a brother's friend who had been killed. As a result, Tyner has vowed that he will not stop until the Grant family has answers. And it seems, Maggie, that there are still clues emerging.
00:46:13
Speaker
In fact, when Gary Sr. retired to Puerto Rico, he was going through evidence of old tapes and converting them to MP3s. And as reported in an article written by Craig Berry on May 8, 2018, Gary Sr.
New Evidence Emerges
00:46:29
Speaker
found an audio recording of a 911 call made on March 8, 1986.
00:46:38
Speaker
what would have been Gary Junior's 10th birthday and another phone call made on June 2nd, 1986. The content of these calls reveals that the person responsible to me
00:46:54
Speaker
reveals that the person responsible is still out there and justice can be achieved. Grant Sr. told reporters Amanda Abel and Molly Balinski that he, quote, almost fell off his chair.
00:47:09
Speaker
when he heard these calls. Why are we just not hearing them though? Like why is he just now? That I don't, well I guess because he was kind of kept away from the investigation for so long and now he has access to some more of it that he, and he's trying to convert it so to preserve it because we can listen, you can share MP3, it's a lot easier obviously than an old tape. This is the content of the first call.
00:47:37
Speaker
Dispatcher. Fire and police. Caller. Is it possible for me to collect a reward on my own self for the murder of Gary Grant? Dispatcher. Is it for you to collect the reward for yourself? Caller. Uh-huh.
00:47:59
Speaker
Dispatcher, if you have, yeah, if you have information, what are you saying? That I don't know what you mean, like you know who did it? Something like that you mean? Caller, no. How's if I did it myself and I want to collect the whole reward? Dispatcher, if you did it, caller, yeah.
00:48:22
Speaker
Dispatcher, suppose I hook you into the detective bureau. Caller, no, that's okay. The dispatcher says something unclear. The caller, unclear at first, but then says, it's not a crank call. You're never gonna catch me. Dispatcher, you know what? Caller, you're never gonna catch me.
00:48:46
Speaker
And then the dispatcher tries to say, what was that? I didn't hear you. And that was the end of the call. Oh my goodness. Okay, again though, unless you're just taunting them at this point, I feel like what sane person is going to call into the police and be like,
00:49:09
Speaker
hey, can I collect the reward money if I'm who murdered someone? That's what makes me think it is a taunt, right? And especially with how the call ended. Because obviously it wasn't serious because the caller then says, this isn't a prank, you're never gonna catch me. When did you say this call came through? This first call was from March 8th, 1986. So this is a couple of years after
00:49:37
Speaker
Gary Grant Jr.'s murder because he was murdered in January of 1984. I'm just thinking about like I remember one time in junior high some boys in my school called 911 as a prank and like hung up and then the police showed up at their house because they were able to I guess track the number was that not possible or I don't know
00:49:59
Speaker
But I'm wondering if that's why she kept trying to say, like, take your time. What? I didn't hear you. She's trying to trace where it was coming from. Right. To keep them on the phone for longer. In the second call, according to that same article by Abilen Balinski, a man stated, quote, I can't give you my name. End quote. But then he gives another name.
00:50:21
Speaker
The man he says confessed to killing the young boy found bludgeon to death in January of 1984. Quote, he told me he killed Gary Grant Jr. because of the father. The man says, quote, the cops know what he looks like.
00:50:42
Speaker
And then one other source that I read, Maggie, said that the second caller blamed, quote, an arrest the father made, end quote. So like what we said earlier, maybe it was someone who was mad that the dad arrested them. Right. And I think the language of even that comment is interesting to me because he doesn't say that the caller said that the person responsible was mad at his own or her own arrest, but just an arrest. And I think that word choice
00:51:12
Speaker
is interesting. Yeah, because I feel like if it was you or like me, I would be like, I'm mad because he arrested me. Right. Or not, he made an arrest. Right. Yeah, because of an arrest that the father made.
00:51:28
Speaker
What's also interesting though is that when confronted with the name of the person in that second call, so the man again in that second call says the name of the person who he says admitted to this death, Gary Senior doesn't recall having any beef with him. And even though that gentleman was charged with child endangerment and sexual contact with a child under five,
00:51:54
Speaker
He has never been named a suspect in Gary Jr's case. But then I feel like the, I keep going back to the word appointment because I feel like that is a very like sex trafficking thing to say to a child, oh just tell your mommy you have an appointment. You know, like I can just, in my mind, like I picture a creep saying that to a little kid.
00:52:17
Speaker
Well, like I said, Maggie, he, even though he has done these horrible things, right, and has been charged with them, he was never named a suspect in Gary Jr's case, despite this call that came in naming him. The only named suspect
00:52:34
Speaker
to date has been Carl Mason, who we discussed. And that is even though 500 to 600 people were interviewed over the course of the investigation. That's a lot of heat. That is a lot. And that's it Maggie. Nothing else. No fingerprints on the pipe that I've read about. No blood splatter on clothing. And that's what makes me not convinced that it's Carl. Yeah.
00:52:59
Speaker
Because I feel like a 12 year old is not going to know to wipe a murder weapon off or dispose of bloody clothes. I feel like the grandmother would have seen something or somebody would have seen something. But if not him, then who?
00:53:18
Speaker
According to reporter Craig Barry, quote, children are the epitome of innocence. As parents, we strive to see the smile on their faces and to enjoy life with a creative imagination before having to face the realities of adulthood. When horrible crimes are committed against such purity, people are often left wondering how and why. There are times when those questions get answered.
00:53:46
Speaker
Other times, a resolution doesn't occur. In other instances, justice is in view, but the lack of evidence isn't adequate enough to provide closure." But Gary Grant Sr. still has hope. They have a lot more resources than they did in 1984, Grant said. There's a good possibility that they might be able to do something.
00:54:17
Speaker
He hopes that perhaps someone will hear the voice on the tapes and recognize it, perhaps leading police to the perpetrator. Anyone with information about the case is asked to call the Atlantic City Major Crimes Unit at 609-909-7666. Remember,
00:54:43
Speaker
As Tom Allen intimated in that quote at the beginning of our episode, the wholesomeness of a child must be guarded, period. But with so many children hurting in the world today, we obviously haven't learned this lesson yet. We haven't spoken enough good into the world to hear it in return yet. So we have to keep trying.
00:55:12
Speaker
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00:55:42
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.