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Strong on the Outside, Falling Apart Inside with Brian Sachetta
26 Plays5 days ago
Men's mental health, male anxiety and masculinity sit at the center of this one. Author, software developer and mental health advocate Brian Sachetta joins Bruce Anthony to talk about why so many men suffer from anxiety in silence, and never say a word about it.
Brian grew up in the "boys don't cry" era, and he traces how that programming followed him into adulthood, his relationships and a successful software career, all while he was quietly fighting panic attacks he did not understand. There was no single fix, just a long and uneven search for what actually works. Bruce and Brian get into the anxiety hidden behind ambition and productivity, the way technology becomes a tool for avoiding what we feel, and the male loneliness crisis so many men are living through without ever naming it.
Brian's story is a reminder that healing rarely arrives as one clean breakthrough. It asks for honesty, patience and a willingness to stop running from the parts of yourself you have spent years avoiding. Because sometimes familiar pain just feels safer than the uncertainty of becoming someone new.
#MensMentalHealth #MaleAnxiety #AnxietyInMen #Masculinity #maleloneliness #podcast #PanicAttacks #HighFunctioningAnxiety #EmotionalSuppression #MentalHealth #Depression #Burnout #BrianSachetta #unsolicitedperspectives
Chapters:
00:00 Inside the Silent Battle Between Anxiety and Modern Masculinity 🧠🤐⚔
03:21 Growing Up in Boston During the Boys Don’t Cry Era of the 90s 🧊🚪🧠
06:27 Why Anger Became the Only Emotion Men Were Ever Allowed to Show 😡🧱🤫
10:45 Success on Paper Can Still Hide a Mind Quietly Falling Apart 🎓💼😰
12:29 The Panic Attack That Forced Brian to Finally Face His Anxiety 💔😨🪱
16:00 Why Healing Anxiety Took a Decade Instead of One Breakthrough ⏳🧠🌱
18:58 Why Human Emotions Cannot Be Debugged Like Broken Computer Code 💻🧩😵
23:38 How a Three Month Europe Trip Exposed His Relationship Anxiety 🌍💔😰
28:56 When Self Optimization Creates More Stress Than Real Success ⚙️📈😵
33:30 How Anxiety Pushes High Achievers Toward Constant Productivity 🏃🧠🔥
36:48 The Sad Clown Effect Behind Ambition, Burnout and Overwork 🤡💼😓
39:01 When Entertainment Stops Being Fun and Becomes a Compulsion 🎧🎬🌀
41:31 Filters, Intentional Choices and Blocking Off Every Waking Hour 🧭📆✅
44:50 Technology, Emotional Avoidance and Apps Engineered to Hook You 📱🪝🌀
49:15 Why Everything Will Be Okay Can Feel Empty During Depression 🌧️💬😔
50:50 How Emotional Distance Helps Fuel the Male Loneliness Crisis 👥🧱💔
56:03 Finding the Hidden Root When Treatment Still Is Not Working 🔍🧠🪴
1:00:21 Why Familiar Pain Feels Safer Than the Discomfort of Healing 🌱⏳🔥
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
What if the biggest battle you're fighting isn't with the world, but with your own mind? We gonna get into it. Let's get it!
00:00:20
Speaker
Welcome. First of all, welcome. This is Unsolicited Perspectives. I am your host, Bruce Anthony, here to lead the conversation in important events and topics that are shaping today's society. please Join the conversation and follow us wherever you get your audio podcasts. Subscribe to our YouTube channel for our video podcast, YouTube exclusive content, and our YouTube membership.
00:00:39
Speaker
Rate, review, like, comment, share. Share with your friends, share with your family, hell, even share with your enemies.
Guest Introduction: Brian Sacheta
00:00:47
Speaker
On today's episode, I'm joined by author, software developer, and mental health advocate, Brian Sacheta. We're going to be exploring anxiety, masculinity, and why so many people suffer in silence.
00:00:58
Speaker
But that's enough of the intro. Let's get to the show.
Quality of Mental Health Conversations
00:01:09
Speaker
Mental health has become one of the most talked about topics in our culture and on the show. But that doesn't necessarily mean that we're having better conversations around this particular subject. Too often the advice we hear is to stay positive or just think differently, even though anybody who has ever lived with anxiety or depression knows that those words rarely work by themselves.
Mental Health and Software Debugging
00:01:29
Speaker
Today's guest, Brian Chichetta, approaches mental health from a unique perspective. As a software developer and author of Get Out of Your Head book series, he draws interesting parallels between how we debug computer systems and how we try to make sense of our own minds.
00:01:45
Speaker
Through his own experiences with anxiety and panic attacks and depression, he's developed a philosophy that challenges a lot of conventional thinking about mental health.
Silent Struggles and Masculinity
00:01:54
Speaker
In this conversation, we're going to talk about why high-functioning people often struggle in silence, how technology can become a tool for emotional avoidance, what masculinity teaches men about vulnerability, and why understanding your mind isn't always the same as escaping it.
00:02:11
Speaker
If you ever found yourself overthinking, carrying stress that you never talk about, or wondering why so many people seem to have it all together while quietly falling apart, um ah I think that you're going to really enjoy this conversation.
00:02:24
Speaker
So, without further ado, Brian Cicchetta. As I said at the top, I'm here with Brian Cicchetta, author of Get Out of Your Head series.
00:02:36
Speaker
Brian, thank you for coming on the show. We're going to talk about something that's near and dear to my heart, and that's mental health. Mental health for men, it's it's a common theme on this show. I've had a lot of mental health professionals come on here, or mental health advocates come on here and talk about mental health. It's near and dear to my heart.
00:02:54
Speaker
And you have a different perspective on unsolicited perspectives of looking at mental health, and I thought that was interestings interesting. So thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm excited to have this conversation.
00:03:07
Speaker
Thanks, Bruce. I'm excited to be here. All right. So I start every interview, Brian, with a very simple question, but it's an important question.
Masculinity in Boston: Cultural Influences
00:03:18
Speaker
Take me back to growing up. You're from Boston. take Take me back to what it was like growing up in Boston, your early life, and the signs of how men are supposed to handle their emotions growing up in Boston and being a youth.
00:03:34
Speaker
Yeah, so I think I want to attack this at three quick levels. Okay. So we'll go first on the societal level. Mm-hmm. You know, I grew up in the 90s and the 2000s, but formative years, you know, we'll say 98 to 2005, something like that, you know.
00:03:55
Speaker
And in 1999, whatever year you want to pick out of that timeline, the world was pretty different. You know, there's no social media. The internet wasn't really a big thing. There's no influencers and all that. And so back then, the milieu of growing up in that environment, right, of it was basically still in that era of boys don't cry, push your feelings down.
00:04:19
Speaker
Men don't have emotions. They don't talk about these things. So that was the the society-wide level, right? Right. then I'll move down to the Boston level to just answer this question specifically is, you know, people will still say, and obviously it's changed a little bit, but people will often say that living in the Northeast kind of hardens you because the winter is really tough. And there's there's a lot of comedians and famous people that come out of the Northeast and they all have that little bit of ruggedness slash a-hole vibe to them, you know? And so with that is like, oh, you know, the...
00:04:53
Speaker
These guys or men in general in Boston, we we get through the hard winters. We kind of, you know, we have a little edge to us. We don't like life that much kind of thing. We don't talk about the difficulties.
00:05:05
Speaker
Maybe we drink. Maybe we go to the boys clubs, whatever. That was definitely there as well. Growing up in that of just again, like, hey, I'm hearing these messages or absorbing these messages of like, you know,
00:05:17
Speaker
struggle on, get through, but don't
Family Influence on Emotional Expression
00:05:19
Speaker
talk about it. And then lastly, you know, growing up in my own family and, you know, this is the part that like, I'm still in therapy. I still go through this stuff and work through this stuff, process it. And it's challenging too, where it's like, you know, would everybody in my family agree with this? They might not, but I think for my so like my specific immediate family, grew up in a place where you know we didn't talk about emotions a lot, and we also didn't have like too many difficult conversations. So as a kid, right, like, yeah, you you observe your parents' behavior and you also hear what they say, but you absorb everything that they do and don't do as well. And with a lot of that is like...
00:05:58
Speaker
I don't say the word subliminal in a bad way. I just mean there's there's an undertone there, right, that you pick up on. And so for me, I think that undertone was, oh, we don't really express our emotions that effectively or at all. And therefore, I take that to mean that I can't express my
Media's Impact on Emotion in the 90s
00:06:15
Speaker
emotions either. And I think all of those things came together to create a product where it's like, ooh, that's not a great environment for mental health.
00:06:23
Speaker
So, and when you say don't show emotions or don't show emotions... Mm-mm... properly, what specifically are you talking about? So, for instance, I grew up in the 90s as well. By the time I was in the 2000s, I was in college. it was That was a different time for me.
00:06:41
Speaker
But in the 90s, I did grow up, and I remember... The music I listen to, hip hop, right, switched over from what I call happy rap into hardcore rap, where before we were dancing at the beginning of the generation and then we couldn't even dance anymore. Right. So the expression of joy was just different.
00:07:03
Speaker
The only thing we could really express was anger.
00:07:08
Speaker
In your growing up, what were some of the emotions that that you looked at and you say, well, these are emotions that are deemed worthy for me to express?
00:07:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's a really good question. What I would say is I think the positive emotions were all well and good, and I think that there was an air of sort of like the positive thinking movement the new self the new thought kind of movement of law of attraction think positive celebrate your wins and all that and it's look that's great i think you need a healthy balance of that kind of thing in your life i know that in my own home life like we really struggled to go to the other end and talk about the negative emotions right so just as a like one-off example right is like My brother would come home from school or or maybe he did one day and something didn't go right. You know, maybe he was, he asked a girl out and he got rejected or the girl that he liked went off with somebody else or whatever. And he'd come home and he'd be like venting and fuming and maybe slam a door or whatever. And instead of being like, oh, he's communicating something through that behavior.
00:08:18
Speaker
Let's talk about it. I remember me and my dad, we'd just sit around and we'd be like, we don't know. you know We don't know what's going on and we don't know what what to do about it. We don't know how to handle it. So we just didn't we didn't really have the language and the textbook or the tool book for making sense of those emotions. And even if we were like, yeah, we would be willing to talk about them.
00:08:39
Speaker
the environment didn't quite support it, right? Again, I just don't know if we had all the tools for it. So I think for me, I'm like looking back, I'm like, yeah, we made room for the positive. we didn' We either didn't make room for the negative or we didn't want to, or we didn't know how to handle it.
00:08:55
Speaker
And when you kind of don't actually talk about those things, then problems start to arise over time. Yeah. I often... talk about this when discussing relationships between parents and their children. And I'm not a parent, but I am somebody's child. So I do have a right to say what I'm about to say. And I think oftentimes parents don't think about giving their kids safe spaces.
00:09:22
Speaker
My question to you is, Even if the space was safe for your brother, for instance, in that particular situation, would he even know how to verbalize what it is going? Would he feel comfortable? Would he know how to verbalize it? And would he feel comfortable sharing that type of vulnerability that a girl rejected me? or I didn't make the the basketball team or coach decided to bench me and I'm not going to be pitching the next game. Would he know or you know how to express that if you were given the safe spaces to express it?
Brian's Early Experiences with Anxiety
00:10:01
Speaker
I got two things I want to mention on that is, one, when we say safe space, right, I think the challenge that we faced growing up was like, I think my parents would probably be like,
00:10:12
Speaker
What do you mean we didn't give you that space, right? We absolutely did. You know you could have come and talked to us about anything. I would say they didn't provide always the model, like the that that role of modeling that behavior, if that makes sense, right?
00:10:27
Speaker
yeah And then that means that, let's say my brother and I probably don't get the tools to be able to talk about those things if the space were there. Does that make sense? Yeah.
00:10:39
Speaker
Yeah. That makes perfect sense. Well, despite maybe not having the perfectly described safe space so or the tools to express yourself emotionally, on paper, you made it, right? You went to Boston College, software career, you got a good job.
00:11:00
Speaker
When did you start to realize that even with the successes that you had in your life, there were still something underneath that wasn't quite right? It's funny because, you know, I think we want to look at these stories, anybody's story, and especially like somebody who is on a podcast, writes a book, whatever, right?
00:11:20
Speaker
we We try to like make our narratives and lives and stories clean and sexy and easy and all that. In reality, you know, I think everybody struggles at times, if not...
00:11:31
Speaker
maybe the whole time, you know, it's ah it's a fairly messy journey. Now, that's not to say that there aren't positive moments, there aren't good moments. But when I look back on my own journey, I'm like, I know that I struggled with my mental health in high school, but I didn't have the lexicon for it. So I would just be like, I was nervous a lot.
00:11:49
Speaker
I didn't even know what the word anxiety was. You know, it really, again, it wasn't, to speak of to speak of that milieu of society, it wasn't in the, i'm I'm missing the term, but it just wasn't in the cultural societal dialogue, if you will, right?
00:12:05
Speaker
Because that was when I, if I look back and I'm like, when I started to struggle with my mental health, I don't know, 2005, 2006, nobody was really talking about anxiety, especially not in high school at that point, you know?
Journey Through Mental Health Strategies
00:12:18
Speaker
So I would say there was a moment there, but then a real inciting moment was I went off to college And i you know i had actually just had a panic attack a few months before that while I was on a date with a girl. And this you know I talk about this in my first book. And I go off to college and I'm like, I don't even know what that was. I didn't really know the term panic attack. I just knew I was so nervous, more nervous than I had ever been before. And I couldn't breathe and you know felt like I was going to have a heart attack, XYZ. I go off to college and being the 18-year-old guy that's living in this machismo world, I'm like,
00:12:53
Speaker
You know, turn the page, never going to experience that again. i don't have to think about it, push it down. I'm just going to live a great life in college and everything's going be fine and dandy and fun. And very quickly at college, you know, I i meet this new girl that I'm interested in. i could give you the whole story, but, you know, there were we we we met up one night and she had been drinking a little bit and I had not. I was very nervous and she's just like kind of not in her right mind where she's critical. You know, I guess I would say that she's unfiltered.
00:13:22
Speaker
And so she comes over, jumps into my lap and I'm I'm shaking. My heart is racing and she just freaks out. She's like, oh, my God, what's wrong with you? You're shaking. This is so strange. And like, you know, swears at me a bunch and runs off down the hall and That was really, if you know, to answer the question of when did I know something wasn't right? That was like, I can't ignore any of this anymore. I can't pretend as though i can go off to college and be fine.
00:13:48
Speaker
I just tried to meet up with somebody that I have a crush on and it went so horrifically bad. And now I'm humiliated and embarrassed and all of that. And so I talk about that in my first book to be like, that was really the beginning, the official beginning of my journey, because that was when I said to myself,
00:14:04
Speaker
I gotta do something about this. I can't just pretend like it doesn't exist. I can't just sweep it under the rug anymore. yeah That's so interesting, ah because we're few years apart and as far as their ah generations are concerned and and where we were as when we went to college and high school. but I remember, you know, i often talk about this in therapy and then with my parents because they didn't realize what I was going through that. And it took my ex-wife to point out, you're nervous right now. What is that? And I was like, I don't know what you're talking about. Like, what are what are you talking about? She's like, I could tell that you're anxious right now. I'm anxious. She was like, yes, you had this little tick where you raise your shirt above your nose.
00:14:44
Speaker
You're anxious. And it was her that that told me you had this problem. It was also... The Sopranos. it's I found out what panic attacks were, what I was having, by watching The Sopranos because they said, oh, this is a panic attack. Oh, you mean the situation where all of a sudden things get blurry and look like you don't pass out?
00:15:05
Speaker
That's a panic attack? Oh, yeah, i've I've had those ever since probably middle school. That's that's what I have? And so it was, it it you're right, it wasn't in the lexicon, it wasn't in our dialogue to talk about anxiety and panic attacks. But when you start having them, you realize, oh, yeah, this is something that I can't just will my way out of. I've got to find out what's going on. So...
00:15:33
Speaker
My question is, when that young lady ran off, what what eventually ended up happening? did Did you guys reconnect or was that just a a failed thing? And did that make you go, well, let's go to therapy now? Or did was there some time that still passed before you started therapy?
00:15:51
Speaker
Okay, so I wanna try to keep two things in my mind, which is like, what was the immediate result or, you know, what happened with the relationship and what happened with my mental health, right? So, and it's funny, cause they're, the timelines are the opposite of one another. So anyway,
00:16:07
Speaker
I woke up the next day and I was completely beside myself. I really didn't sleep a lot that night. I'm thinking to myself, how am I supposed to get into a relationship ever? You know, this is, you know, two women in a row that I've had panic attacks in front of and my anxiety is always there. I'm always nervous, even if I don't have a panic attack. So like, this is bad. I got to do something about it. So I woke up that next day and I...
00:16:30
Speaker
I went on the internet. Again, internet was a very different place back then. This is 2008. I'm buying like these horrible eBooks on sketchy personal websites through PayPal and whatnot, trying to figure it all out and being like, this person, he has the answer, he knows, right?
00:16:46
Speaker
And none of that was helpful. So the the real story there is like, it was really like the next decade of just jumping into everything I could, right? exercise, meditation, breathwork, mantras, going to therapy, you name it. I tried it all.
00:17:02
Speaker
And eventually, right, like I wanted that progress immediately and the bitter pill or whatever the right term is like. I got there, but it took me a decade. and and i And part of getting there is also acknowledging that like, you're never there.
00:17:19
Speaker
You know what i mean? You do better with it and you see the anxiety differently and you have a different relationship to it. But the notion of like, I never experience anxiety ever again, ah guess what? The only people who don't are you know,
00:17:33
Speaker
folks who aren't connected to their feelings at all or dead people. You know what i mean? So, right? you change You change your relationship to it and you learn things and you integrate over time and you do get better.
00:17:43
Speaker
The second part is more what happened with that woman. Now, this is something that honestly, like at some point I should do some therapy on this. She and I remained friends. We stayed connected.
00:17:55
Speaker
ah I don't know how much of the dirty ah laundry I want to air out, but like we hooked up a few times. she she I'll just say I think she probably needed therapy more than I did. And we'll see.
00:18:08
Speaker
Who knows? I don't know what ended up happening, but I look back and I'm just like, that was a very dysfunctional relationship. fueled by a lot of drinking and it wasn't healthy at all. And I'm like, that obviously didn't help my mental health for that to be one of my first, like not my first relationship. And it wasn't even officially a relationship, but like, it yeah again, it was, it was not healthy. It was booty calls, like just awkward stuff where it was like one of those things too, where you're like, oh, we hung out last night and then wake up the next morning and like pretend, you know, as though you don't even know who each other is. Right. Oh, I'm sober now. I can't talk to you kind of thing. So. The young kids today would call that a situationship.
00:18:47
Speaker
There you go. Yeah. Okay.
Limits of Logic in Emotional Problem-Solving
00:18:50
Speaker
So you're you're going through this process trying to work on your anxiety, but you're also a software developer.
00:19:01
Speaker
And you tried to fix your mind like it was broken code. How long did that work before you realized that the emotions don't really work that way? It wasn't too long. Okay. And, you know well, here's the frame, right? is So to continue the story that I just told was, I woke up that day after the panic attack. I'm beside myself.
00:19:22
Speaker
I read a bunch of crappy eBooks, but one of them said, hey, what if you were to use positive visualization to, you know, mitigate your anxiety. So the next time that you're thinking of meeting up with that girl and you're like a train wreck, picture yourself with her, picture yourself succeeding and not being anxious and all of that.
00:19:44
Speaker
And it sounded intriguing to me because again, I came from the household that was, you know, the new thought school, ah law of attraction, positive thinking and all of that. So I'm like, that must be, that must work. You know, that it seems like it it should work, especially when you grow up and you hear from teachers and coaches and parents and all that, like, you know, see see the outcome in your mind and then eventually it'll come to fruition in real life. So I was like, there was just some some momentum behind that where I was like, yeah, that seems approachable. Let me try that.
00:20:16
Speaker
So I really tried that strategy for like five to 10 And I was just like, I wouldn't let it go because I'm like, these people must, you know, that author must know what he's talking about. These people who sell all these books, they must know what they're talking about.
00:20:31
Speaker
Eventually, i realized that I was just banging my head against the wall with that one for so long of like, you know, I think we're all familiar with the definition of insanity, which is, you know, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
00:20:45
Speaker
I was an insane person doing the same thing with the law of attraction being like, my anxiety is is no better. Actually, it's kind of worse because every time i go down that spiral, you know, I'm thinking about the thing that scares me and then I'm feeling that fear. So- The reason I'm giving this preamble is to say that that lesson stuck with me, right? To say, hey, you tried that for five to 10 years.
00:21:09
Speaker
Maybe the next time you learn a tactic, don't. Stick with it for five to 10 years, fail with it and move on. Right. So at a certain point, you know, i graduated college. I became a software developer. And yeah, I definitely took the idea seriously of being like, well, I go off to work every day and I think critically and I i solve coding problems.
00:21:30
Speaker
So assuredly, I can do the same thing. in my personal life and think critically through my emotions and solve them. And very quickly, you know, and and I guess I would say is like, I probably stuck with that strategy for like six months to a year.
00:21:45
Speaker
But I would say that was quick based on the previous experience. And after that amount of time, I was like, okay, I'm kind of doing the same thing. You know, I'm basically in both... In both cases, with both tactics, I'm basically just ruminating over the problem.
00:21:59
Speaker
And, you know, the more that you stew on the problem, the larger it gets. So I had that evidence and that experience to be like, hey, maybe don't try a tactic ad nauseum. Maybe if it's not working, let it go.
00:22:11
Speaker
So, yeah, I would say six to 12 months is kind of the official answer to the question that you asked. I eventually had to admit the fact that it wasn't working.
00:22:29
Speaker
When did you get to the point where, because you say it in your books, that our minds are not our friends and you can't solve a feeling. So it seemed to me that even though it only lasted six to 12 months, but by using logic, logic and emotions typically don't go hand in hand. They're there're there almost opposites. when did you When did you start to realize this, that that our minds aren't our friends and you can't solve a feeling?
00:22:58
Speaker
I think it's around this same time that I'm alluding to. So this would have been like 2015 as I'm at a specific job writing software. And a lot of this, you know maybe indirectly, but at the same time is still chronicled in my first book. And so I guess surprise, surprise, the the first book is full of stories of anxiety and failed relationships. And so basically like the long, long story short on on this next episode,
00:23:26
Speaker
saga, if you will, was basically, I'm at this job. I meet a new girl, very interested in her. ah She goes off on this long backpacking trip through Europe. And we like kind of unofficially said that we would like keep in touch. You know what i mean? Try to not make it work, but just like, hey, wellll we'll keep talking. You know what I mean? Hold on. Now I got questions. Yeah. Now I got questions, Brian. Now, hold on. Were y'all like officially together before she did this back backpack trip throughout Europe?
00:23:54
Speaker
Absolutely not. Okay. So y'all was just, you was it was another situationship. Yes. Okay. All right. And how long had this situationship been going on? Not very long, like a month.
00:24:06
Speaker
and And how long was this backpack trip? Probably like three months. Okay. So the backpack trip is three times longer than y'all have been together. and And you've come to this agreement that you're going to keep in touch Okay, that alone would cause me a lot of anxiety, especially if I really like a person.
00:24:27
Speaker
wow I have... There's this question that I have, and I'm trying to think of the right way to ask it. You know that you're battling with this anxiety, this severe anxiety.
00:24:39
Speaker
But it seems like you keep putting yourself in these anxious type of situations. Me, i would avoid I would avoid them. I would say, oh, I'm starting to get that feeling. in I'm out. But you're leaning into them. That's a that's pretty amazing to me.
00:24:55
Speaker
I appreciate that. I would definitely say that, you know, to what you said, it was a bad idea. Looking back, I'm like, yeah, a situationship that, I mean, a month might even be generous. You know, it was it was just like I hadn't really, you know, I had dated some people and gone out with some people, but I didn't have a ton of experience. And I think also, like, there's so many patterns that I hadn't yet seen in my own life and learned in my upbringing that I had to come to terms with that, like,
00:25:23
Speaker
You know, I was still in that puppy dog phase of like, oh, somebody likes me and I like them back. And like, we're going to make it work and whatever, you know, of committing way too fast and way too much way too soon, you know. And then also, yeah, just the leaning in part. Like, I don't know.
00:25:39
Speaker
I wouldn't necessarily say that I'm a sicko, but like there's definitely times where I... there's something in me that like, it's probably a little OCD based, which is like, even if I know that I don't want to do it and I'm like, oh, I should avoid, right? Like I remember before she left, she like, she would kind of be interested and then not be interested. And I'm like, you know what? I don't need this. Like I'm out. Like this is stupid.
00:26:03
Speaker
And then she'd come back and I'm, ah, darn it. Like, but you know what i mean? i I know that I should avoid, but I kind of want to pursue this. You know what i mean? and And I'm like that in many situations where I'm like, I'm so nervous in...
00:26:15
Speaker
In other situations in my life, I'm going off to a job interview. You know, I know that some people would be like, just cancel the interview. Like, this is crazy. Like, why be so nervous? Why go through with it? Just avoid it. There's some sick part of my brain that is just like, nope, battle through it. I don't necessarily recommend that, but like, that's how I'm programmed. I don't, ah I want to be clear. I'm not knocking you.
00:26:36
Speaker
I actually admire that because I think it takes more courage to actually face a thing that is that is going to, you know it's going to be tough, but still to persevere. He said it might be insanity to keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. But I also call that living. What I learned was that turning and running away, avoiding it, was the worst scenario to have. I remember I moved back to the same community that me and my ex-wife moved in before we got married.
00:27:12
Speaker
And my goddaughter said, why did you move back here after you so soon after your divorce? and And without thinking, yeah I didn't even think I was dropping any type of knowledge, but for this young person who was 13 or 14 years old, picked up on it and i was like, wow, I never thought of it like that. And it was like, you got to put yourself in the fire.
00:27:31
Speaker
You got to see who you are on the other side of it. So I ah i don't necessarily think that you Entering in these situations knowing that they're going to cause you anxiety is a bad thing. I think turning and running away from that interview would be a bad thing. I started these these podcasts in the first, I don't know, six, seven interviews, overwhelming anxiety, and they came out in the interviews. I'm just now starting to get comfortable with it. But if I hadn't done that before,
00:28:03
Speaker
I wouldn't be here. So I don't want you to think like, I'm just a glutton for punishment. No, I think you're living life. So I just want to give you your flowers before we move on to the to the next question. I appreciate that. And yeah, i the only thing I have to say is pros and cons, right? Like I agree. It's it's probably...
00:28:22
Speaker
It is better to do the thing, but i don't I don't want folks to be like, to think that they always have to, right? That's true. Knowing that that anxiety can be painful and whatnot. i'm not I'm not trying to glamorize that. I'm saying like, hey, if if you do it, yeah, you'll you'll learn things and it'll probably be good for you. But at the same time, like there's a reason why we avoid, right? It's like the avoidance feels pretty good sometimes. Yeah, it does.
Optimization and Anxiety Cycle
00:28:46
Speaker
how how How is the comparison between your software developer? How is the comparison between optimizing our ourselves and optimizing software similar? And is there danger in in thinking that you can optimize yourself like you would a software?
00:29:03
Speaker
Yeah, I think I've actually run up against this one the last couple years and kind of unknowingly, you know, I think I will eventually answer the question, but I'll just kind of ramble for a minute, which is we live in this world, tons of podcasts, tons of movies to watch, books to read, things to do, trips to take, all that. Right. And and we're bombarded by it on Instagram and TikTok and Facebook and whatever.
00:29:26
Speaker
And I think there's part of us, maybe not everybody, but there's part of us that like, you see all these things, you hear all these things and you want to take part in them, right? And you also, right, like thinking about, let's just say the podcast angle specifically is there's biohacking and there's Andrew Huberman and there's all these different ways that we learn, right?
00:29:46
Speaker
Whether it's through a specific podcast or just a general atmosphere of the society that we live in of like, yeah, make the best use of all your time. and cram as much into every day as you can.
00:30:00
Speaker
And that I think is driven by the fact that there's so much stuff and information and content out there that we're like, okay, I'm never gonna do it all, but let me try to do a good amount of it, right? And if I can block out my calendar where every single second is accounted for, then I won't feel as though I'm missing out on things, right? Which is, you know, as an aside, that's a that's a bit of an illusion because there's so much stuff we can't do at all. We can't experience it all, obviously, right? So I found myself trying to essentially
00:30:36
Speaker
make everything as optimized as could be, right? Okay, wake up, pop in a podcast, go for a walk, listen to an audio book, get to the gym, listen to a podcast while I'm working out, go to work, come home from work, work on my side project, listen to ah another audio audio book, do the biohacking, XYZ, all of that, right? And so whether it's physical, mental, emotional,
00:30:58
Speaker
If we cram all of that stuff into our days and we essentially, as you're doing that, right, like you're kind of sending this message to your brain and to your nervous system and your body of high pressure to be like, we have to do it all. We have to cram all of it in Otherwise, we're going to miss out. And with that pressure comes a lot of stress.
00:31:17
Speaker
You know, and if you're doing that day after day after day, all that stress is going to build up in your nervous system. And at some point it's going to boil over. And that is kind of where I found myself within the last couple of years being like doing all these things that don't matter, that I don't really care about. And and I don't like that's not to be meant on a some grand level, right? Like if I speak specifically to my own situation, I was like, i was basically addicted to podcasts, kind of addicted to audio books. I'd watch a lot of movies and I still tried to do all the other things at the same time. Hang out with my friends, date, talk to my family, go to work, right?
00:31:55
Speaker
Your body just can't keep up with that much stuff for that long. And the piece with the optimization is I would find myself, I, you know, I'm a bit ashamed to admit it, but I'm also happy to admit it at the same time is I would find myself like brushing my teeth.
00:32:11
Speaker
And I'd be like, Oh, where are my headphones? Like, I can't believe that I didn't just listen to a podcast while I was brushing my teeth. Cause like, ah you know, I need to be efficient with my time. And I'm like, if two minutes is that important to you, you are so fragile.
00:32:25
Speaker
You know, like you can't just sit there and do nothing for two minutes. I think that speaks to the amount of stress and the amount of pressure that I was putting on myself and sometimes people put on themselves as well. So, you know, the thing, right, is like, it's not necessary like, and this is why I struggled was I'm like, I'm like, I'm all stressed out. I have no idea why. I'm like, I'm just trying to listen to an audio book. Am you know, um I feel like I'm gonna have a panic attack. It's just an audio book.
00:32:51
Speaker
And as I worked through this with my therapist, my therapist was like, yeah, it's an audio book. It's not a big deal. The deal is that you're never giving your body a second to just breathe and relax.
00:33:03
Speaker
And it's saying to you, like, stop, slow down and give me a second to relax. And so if we're always optimizing, that is possibly the end result. And it's not a good one.
00:33:16
Speaker
I have a question, the chicken or the egg, because it seems like in In your process of optimizing yourself, which is leading to more anxiety, it was the anxiety pushing you to optimize yourself. It was your anxiety saying, you need to be doing something.
00:33:34
Speaker
So it it it is really very much is a chicken and an egg because one thing is driving... The other thing, right? it's It's your anxiety is driving that overwhelming need to fill every minute of the day, which is also driving to more anxiety. And it's a it's a circle. And it and it's I feel like you got to be so grateful that you had your therapist just to be like, you it's not that big of a deal.
00:34:01
Speaker
Take a break. Relax. ah But that... It's difficult for high-functioning individuals because high-functioning individuals feel like they need to achieve that any wasted moment is not achieving something that they could be doing to make them even more successful or more accomplished or or more knowledgeable.
00:34:24
Speaker
And you talk about that a lot. You talk about high-functioning people and their struggle, their struggle specifically in their silence. Silence. It kind of seems like you were describing yourself, but take it out of yourself and and broaden that concept a little bit and and and and describe to me who this high-functioning person is, what they show everybody, and then who they are behind closed doors.
00:34:54
Speaker
Yeah, that's a really good question. So that person, and, you know, as you alluded to, I'm speaking from personal experience, is somebody who, like, you talk to them, you hang out with them, they don't show too many emotions, they definitely don't show negative emotions, they...
00:35:12
Speaker
you know It's possible that you may be able to read an emotion on them that they are not either picking up or they are not admitting that they are dealing with, right? And yet on the inside, they are constantly feeling that pressure.
00:35:25
Speaker
They are constantly feeling as though they don't measure up. They are constantly feeling as though if they don't listen to a podcast while they brush their teeth, you know, they're going to drop a ball and something's going to go wrong and they're to fall behind. And so, yeah, it's it's the outward appearance of success and achievement and having it all together while at the same time Really being close to falling apart on the inside. You know, I sometimes spend too much time on Twitter and I don't know if it's the the exact meme that I'm thinking of, but you'll often see a meme in the comments where there's a guy and you can see that his face has one expression on it and then he has a mask over it. Right. But it's like a paper mask. So you can very easily see the difference between the face and the mask. And and that's really what the you know, depending on what emotions are being displayed there.
00:36:18
Speaker
That's what that high achiever can feel like. Right. Where you're like on the outside, big smile, success. I'm doing great, whatever. On the inside, fear, anxiety, doubt, uncertainty, all that stuff.
00:36:30
Speaker
So the sad clown. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, the sad clown. as i I had to learn, and this is just recently, and the last few years, that I do these side projects. I have so many side gigs, and I get these ideas in my head. I'm like, okay, I'm going to go for it. And then i don't just half step in it. I go full-fledged into these type of things.
00:36:53
Speaker
And I was getting burnt out, and I said, you know what? My Sunday fun days aren't enough for me to recalibrate myself. I need to lay off some of these different things. And in the process of doing that, my anxiety kind of went up because it was like, oh, man, this is time where you could be editing or you could be getting new clients or you could be writing new ads. its It was something.
00:37:18
Speaker
Aside from your therapist saying it's not that big of a deal, What were some other things that's registered that you said, okay, I do need to relax? And is it something that you still constantly deal with?
00:37:32
Speaker
I would say I'm in the middle of it, but seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. And i think, I mean, it took a lot, right? And and I don't, I always i always want to really get the message across that. Like, I don't come on shows like these to be like, hey, I figured it all out and I'm perfect, whatever, right? Like, I'm a work in progress. I have a ways to go.
00:37:57
Speaker
ah What I would share is like the progress that I have made and what has worked thus far, right? So when I was going to therapy and and again, like, you know, you talk to your therapist and maybe he says, hey, yeah, it is an audio book. It's, it,
00:38:11
Speaker
by itself, it's not that big of a deal. The issue is the overall picture, right? The picture of this is somebody who is so like, maybe this is the wrong word, but like so afraid to not listen to a podcast while he's brushing his teeth that like something else is going on here, right? Like let's go below the surface a little bit.
00:38:32
Speaker
So as we started to dig, right? Like essentially what we discovered was this is an OCD type of pattern, which is to say like, You know, my therapist would be like, okay, so, well, what movie did you watch last night? Or what book did you read last week? And I'd be like, well, I watched these movies and I listened to this audio book, whatever.
00:38:51
Speaker
And he'd be like, let me ask you something. Did you enjoy it? Most of the times I'd be like, no, I didn't. And he'd he may even say... did you want to watch that movie? Did you want to read that book? And I'd say, most of the time, I'd say no.
00:39:07
Speaker
And so he'd be like, you know, OCD, right? Like obsessive compulsive disorder. That is a compulsion. If you do the thing and you don't actually want to do it, that is a compulsion, right? So what it really, like, the again, not saying I'm out of the woods here, but like the progress that I have made is in being able to name that compulsion and then step back and be like, okay, be methodical about my decisions. Actually make decisions rather than just being impulsive.
00:39:35
Speaker
And what would that would look like was, you know, so I mean, I could trace it back to many different situations and years and all that kind of thing, but... let's say 10 years ago, it'd be like, okay, I'm just starting my writing journey. I'm starting my mental health journey. I want to learn as much as I possibly can. I want to be a well-rounded individual. And so I'd pick up a book or I'd talk to somebody and they'd be like, hey, have you seen movie XYZ? And I'd be like, no, I haven't seen that. Let me write that down.
00:40:03
Speaker
And I wanted to just become cultured, you know, if you will. And I'd say slowly, but surely that pattern... grew legs and maybe even grew some other things that, you know, weren't good. Right. And so what ended up happening was I'd watch a movie and then, you know, I'd talk to some people and they'd be like, well, you've seen that movie, but have you seen this one? And the list would get longer and longer. And then I'd read a book and the book would reference five other books and be like, bestselling mental health book, X, Y, Z. And I'd write those down and I'd listen to them all. And I'd be like, I have to do this. I have to learn. I have to, you know, it was,
00:40:38
Speaker
It was a way that I could dress it up and justify it, you know? Because, like, the thing that was trickiest for me was, and still is at times, is I'd sit there and I'd be like, this isn't cocaine.
00:40:49
Speaker
This isn't a drug. You know what i mean? Like, it should be fine. My body shouldn't be freaking out if I listen to another audiobook, right? The issue was that, like, I wasn't intentional with the decisions. And so, in a way, it was...
00:41:02
Speaker
I don't know if addiction is the right word, but it was it was filling that same hole that you fill when you have an addiction, if that makes sense. So what has really helped me and worked for me is to be like, step way the heck back,
00:41:17
Speaker
Kind of come up with some filters, right? To say, okay, if I have the urge to read an audio book or listen to an audio book, ask myself, number one, do I actually want to listen to this? As in, do I think I would get real enjoyment out of it? Would it be fun?
00:41:33
Speaker
Not necessarily like, hey, oh, it'd be good to read or listen or learn something. And then from there, like be less impulsive. So the other issue, right? and And part of this is the society we live in is, you know, it used to be that if you wanted to read a book, you had to go to the library, you had to go to Barnes and Noble. And that's a lot of friction, right? Get in your car, drive down there, pay for the thing.
00:41:56
Speaker
Nowadays, you go on to, i like for me, I go on to audible.com. I'm like, I'm out of credits. Let me buy some more credits. I buy the credits. I buy three or five and they're gone in 60 seconds, right? Because I know what books I was going to buy. That makes the problem harder. That makes it easier for me and all of us to be more compulsive, right?
00:42:16
Speaker
And then the last piece is... When I stepped back, after I made those filters, after I became more intentional with my decisions, I sat down and I was like, okay, what are my actual priorities and what am I saying that I want to do with my life versus what am I actually doing with my life? And...
00:42:34
Speaker
this is where it gets a little ugly, you know? and And I don't mean necessarily, like, I'm happy to tell my story. it's It's not that ugly. I'm just saying you have to face your own demons and you have to be honest with yourself and be like, oh crap, I'm not doing what I said I was going to do. And so I know, right? Like I look back and I'm like, I've been working on a revised edition of my first book because the book's been... out for close to 10 years now and I've learned things and my writing style has gotten better.
00:43:01
Speaker
I've decided I'm going to improve the book, right? And I've been working, quote unquote, working on this revision for a few years now, you know? And people would ask me like, where's the book?
00:43:11
Speaker
Are you done yet? Whatever. And i but I'm so busy. I'm so busy. I'm so stressed. And at times I was, you know, like I have a full time job that isn't writing. And at times that's been a 60 hour job. You know, that's a lot of work.
00:43:23
Speaker
But there's also been times when it wasn't a 60 hour job. And the week goes by and I just wasn't intentional with my time. And I'm watching another movie because it's the easy thing to do. Right. So what has been really helpful for me as of late is.
00:43:38
Speaker
Not i'm I'm not trying to be overly efficient. I'm just trying to make sure that I actually make space for the things that I care about in my life, which is to say I go into my calendar every week and I block off every waking hour. And again, that's not to say like podcast here, brush teeth here, whatever. It's it's just to be like every hour is accounted for.
00:43:58
Speaker
That might mean that I have an hour on the calendar that says do nothing. relax, whatever. But the most important thing is I put real hours on the calendar that say, do the writing and do not move that block. Or if you do, you have to substitute, you know, you have to move it around later in the week. You can't just give it up entirely. And so, yeah, that has been kind of the journey that I've been on the last couple of years. It's been hard at times because like you're in the machine, you can't see it, you know, right but when you step back, you start to see it a little more.
00:44:31
Speaker
You're obviously in technology, and technology is so prevalent in our everyday lives. You talked about being on X a lot, or Twitter. and I don't know why I called it X. I know it's that's the name, but it's Twitter. You talked about the audiobooks, the movies, and the thing that I'm hearing is, or or what you kind of hinted towards, is like you're doing, you might be doing all these things to avoid.
00:44:55
Speaker
Technology makes it so that we can emotionally avoid things really easily. I'm get on Instagram and I don't even realize I'm getting on Instagram. It's just's it's a compulsion now.
00:45:11
Speaker
Why do you think that is? Why do you think that we use technology to emotionally avoid whether we're doing it consciously or subconsciously? Yeah, I mean, I think it's a pretty simple answer. I would say, one, it's easy, it's accessible, right? Like, again, back to the Barnes & Noble example is, ah would you yeah in the same vein, right, is would you rather get up, go to the grocery store, buy all the ingredients, come home, prepare them, put the food in the oven, cook them?
00:45:41
Speaker
and eat or open Uber Eats, click a button and the food's coming to your door, right? So it's much easier. I think the other thing too is like these different apps and technologies look like I work at a technology company and I've worked at many of them, right? It's like my company and every company out there that is successful, right?
00:46:02
Speaker
ah essentially within these products, right? Like they are they are engineered in such a way as to drive heavy engagement, right? there Every single screen that you go on, every button that you tap, it's all instrumented in a way that the product managers or the owners, the stakeholders of the app or the different software products, they know where every user is. They know whether a specific feature in the app is successful or not successful. They know which of the features is driving engagement and which one is not. Therefore, which one to invest more into and which ones to cut back on. And so...
00:46:40
Speaker
that's all a way of saying that like these apps are engineered to be addictive. And so if you think about like, it's not, here's the, like you combine those two things, right? The the ease of use and the addiction. It's not like, Hey, I got to go drive six hours to go,
00:46:57
Speaker
get my fix on my addiction. I just have to open my phone and I'm already at my desk. I'm already on the couch. It's very, very easy. So what I would say here, right, is like, I think a lot of us, we are hard on ourselves and we beat ourselves up for using Instagram too much, being on Twitter too much, whatever.
00:47:15
Speaker
ah Look, it it's still like, I think the the thing to pull out of there is like, yes, you do want to try to change that behavior and and and hold on to that. Don't throw that away.
00:47:26
Speaker
Yet at the same time, give yourself some grace, right? Because these are, again, you look at the most valuable companies in the world, right? You go on the stock exchange and you look at the the market cap of Meta and whatnot. And you're like, guess where all those products come from? Those really, really high market
Critique of Simplistic Mental Health Advice
00:47:42
Speaker
cap companies. They know what they're doing.
00:47:52
Speaker
You reject the idea of everything will be okay type of mental health. Why do you think that message misses men so often?
00:48:03
Speaker
i I think it it misses most of us, women included, but men specifically. Like, we love, you know, we take on challenges. We are realistic. We think through problems and whatnot.
00:48:15
Speaker
And that, to me, right, like that... the idea of everything will be okay, it's like, it falls on deaf ears. Cause you're like, well, I'm out in the real world every day getting punched in the face, you know? And that's not to say that like things can't get better, but to somebody who's been struggling with anxiety or depression or whatever condition for a long time, they're like,
00:48:39
Speaker
ah Look at my reality. What do you mean it's all going to be okay? Like it's been bad for a while, right? And so I think a lot of folks like get fed up with that message where they're like, look, life isn't all rainbows and unicorns. Like tell it how it is. You know, and I think people respect the message more if you were to say it's difficult.
00:48:57
Speaker
There's going to be a lot of ups. There's going lot of downs. if you find certain things that help you, you will eventually get to a good place. But, you know, sort of the like, pray the anxiety away, I think very quickly you realize that that doesn't work. You know, you live in reality. And so again, it falls on deaf ears. I think people we've gotten to the point, right, where like there's so much BS out there that people really value authenticity. And part of that authenticity is just telling it like how, telling it like how it is, right? Where you're like, and it doesn't have to be overly negative. It just has to be realistic to say,
00:49:30
Speaker
This is how it is today. It can definitely get better, but I'm not going to overlook or sugarcoat the difficulty that you may be going going through right now. Yeah, i probably shouldn't have phrased that question as mainly men because I know of more than a few females that need serious therapy and have gone to therapists.
00:49:52
Speaker
And they're like, I quit that therapist. It's like, why? Because they just wouldn't fix it. I said, that's that's not how therapy works. There is no... just do this and everything will be okay. It's a process. And a lot of times the thing that you think is what's bothering you, there's more underneath there that you need to discover, that you need to tap into. So like you have to do the work and the work is ugly, it's messy, it hurts, but it's important because that's the only way that you get better.
Masculinity Norms and Loneliness
00:50:25
Speaker
what do you But I do want to stick with men for a quick second. I've talked often on this show about the male loneliness epidemic, and it is a real thing. And I think it's tied to men like me and yourself who grew up in an era of, I like to call toxic masculinity, but are now being in touch with their emotions and realizing that the things that they would have taken...
00:50:54
Speaker
ah Back in the day, a woman going on and backpacked through Europe for three months. Like, we're not doing that. But in not doing that, well, we're eliminating some suitors. What do you think about the male loneliness epidemic? And what do you think could be some answers for men out there to address themselves and their loneliness?
00:51:18
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, ah if I were, like, I don't have an answer for it, right? I don't have a diagnosis on it. But you can look at some things across society that probably contribute to it, right? I mean, I i think about the fact that in general, you know, women tend to be more emotional. Guys tend to be more on the rational side. And, right, we talked about some of that. Brian, be careful. More on the rational side. Ooh.
00:51:42
Speaker
I could just see the females in my audience saying, what? We're rational. And that might be the point that he's trying to make. But but more logical. Yes. i think that's ah I think that's a good word yeah in place. i guess I guess, yeah, if anything, men are probably less connected to their emotions than women are. Absolutely. Yes. So, yeah, good catch there.
00:52:02
Speaker
And I think, like... being disconnected from those emotions and then also thinking about some of the societal programming, right, of going back to the idea that in 1998 or 2001 or whatever it was, right, that those those messages of machismo and just kind of battle through it and, you know, boys don't cry and whatnot, right? Like, we all...
00:52:27
Speaker
We can obviously relate through shared interests and experiences and whatnot, but that only kind of takes you so far, right? They're like, if you think about what relationships look like that are based on that,
00:52:41
Speaker
they're more of like acquaintances, surface level connections. You're like, oh, I went to school with that person. Oh, I used to play basketball with that person. The real relationship, if one forms, comes on a deeper level, right? As you start to connect on that emotional level. And so I think if we play the tape back and we're like, okay, well, well guys were kind of told, you know, not to connect to their emotions in in one way or another, whether it's subliminal, and also didn't talk about their emotions, then like, you know, they're...
00:53:11
Speaker
relationships are not going to be as deep as somebody who does connect on that level. And so you play that forward and you're like, okay, obviously the societal narrative is starting to change and more people are talking about their emotions and their mental health, but you're you're kind of...
00:53:27
Speaker
you're at a disadvantage in terms of your starting point if you grew up in that sort of situation, right? And so I think that's a really important piece. I mean, there's other pieces too, where it's like, ah depends on where you live in the country, what school you went to, what friends you made in your specific school and all that. But yeah, like,
00:53:47
Speaker
For us guys, right, I think we had to undo or overcome, and for a lot of us, we're still in the process of that, so much of that programming to be like, oh, I can i can say that thing. i can talk about my emotions, right? there's There's still situations all the time where I'm sitting there and I'm like,
00:54:05
Speaker
unknowingly, my eight-year-old self is like, nope, you can't talk about that. You know what i mean? You can't speak up. You can't say that emotion. And again, that just kind of gets back to the point where you're like, well, if you never do, I know it's a risk, but if you never do, then you probably never have that moment with somebody where they're like, oh, I experienced that too.
00:54:26
Speaker
And then you're like, hey, I guess we're friends now. You know what i mean? So that's ah that's a challenge that we face for sure. You've been honest that you are not a clinician or researcher, but you've gone through a lot of therapy. You've read a lot of books, done a lot of podcasts about mental health, and you've come to what works for you.
00:54:49
Speaker
that's different for everybody. What would be your advice to people out there who are listening to this, watching it, and saying, I've done the same things, and and it doesn't i can't get to I can't get to the right answer. What would be some of the advice that you would give to those people to say, maybe that therapy isn't the right, that form of therapy isn't the right form of therapy for you, but don't give up on the fight?
00:55:16
Speaker
Yeah, I guess I'm trying to like put it all into my mind and into my mouth right now. I'm like, okay, so let's start with like the ground level, which is if you are still in a spot where you're like, I'm not okay, or I'm still struggling mightily with this condition, then there's something going on there that we still need to uproot and get to, right?
00:55:40
Speaker
And from that point, I would say, okay, if you've tried a lot of different things, then you haven't you just haven't gotten to the root of it just yet. And the real challenge, right, is like, you know, and this is how I would phrase it is, the work that I do, I say, look, I went through my own anxiety, depression, mental health challenges, and I said to myself along the way, I was like, I struggled a lot.
00:56:05
Speaker
I'd love to help people. struggle less, as in if I struggled for a decade, I'd love to meet somebody where they are and help them be in a better place in six to 12 months, you know reduce that timeline down.
00:56:16
Speaker
Am I going to do that? I don't know. am i is is that Is it possible? Yes. Is it gonna happen? I'm not entirely sure. But I do know that I've tried a lot of different things over the years, and I know that a lot of other folks have as well.
00:56:30
Speaker
The real difficulty in the frustrating piece, right, is for anybody on this journey, myself, yourself, somebody who's listening is, You can try a heck of a lot of stuff. And you would think that after two years, seven years, 10 years, you'd be like, I'm automatically going to get there. I'm automatically going to hit it. And maybe you have tried everything, right? But then within those subcategories, you're like, I went to therapy, it didn't work.
00:56:56
Speaker
And it it it didn't, right? That's your experience of it. At the same time, right? Like even therapy is such a, there's so many different forms of therapy. There are so many different therapists out there. I've had a bunch of different therapists, some effective, some less effective, right? And I think the challenge is we tend to give a global label to something based on our one or two experiences with it, right? Where we're like, I went to therapy. It didn't work. Therefore, therapy does not work. Right. And it's possible that somebody's personality is not suited to therapy in general or the modality that the therapist uses. But with any of these tactics, I mean, obviously some are deeper than others, but like, I'm like, okay, yeah, if you tried breathwork and it wasn't for you, I think you could probably move on from that one, but something as deep as therapy, right? Like it's possible that maybe you need to find a different therapist, take a different angle, go a bit deeper.
00:57:50
Speaker
Again, just to circle back around on what I was talking about at the beginning is, If that feeling is still there, if that frustration of like, I'm still dealing with this thing is still here, you haven't hit the linch point yet. And so finding that linchpin is the most important part.
00:58:06
Speaker
the The real challenge is like, nobody can go in and be like, I can identify that within you in five minutes. yeah The closest thing honestly would be either a complete stranger who walks into your house and sees the interactions and the behaviors and is like, you do that thing. That's strange, right Because they are foreign to the environment and they are seeing it in real time.
00:58:29
Speaker
Or, ah i don't know, a good friend, right? Somebody who has known you your whole life and is like, I'm willing to call BS on this and be like, let's take a pause.
00:58:39
Speaker
I need to tell you something that is hard to hear. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, Brian, that has been very informative and very educational. And i want to thank you first for coming on the show, but also for being open and being vulnerable. I know that is difficult, but I'm very appreciative that you did it. So thank you so much for coming on the show and and sharing your vulnerability and your knowledge of mental health.
00:59:08
Speaker
Thank you, Bruce. lot of great questions and good discussion overall. Absolutely. Once again, I want to thank Brian for coming on the show and being so vulnerable. it's really It's really cool when people come on the show and show their vulnerability and and let us into their life. I think we learn more when we learn about the true authentic selves of other people. So Brian, thank you so much for coming on the show.
00:59:33
Speaker
I want to encourage everyone watching or listening to check out Brian's work. His Get Out of Your ah Head book series takes an honest look at anxiety, depression, chronic stress, and the challenges so many people face but rarely talk about. If today's conversation resonated with you, I highly recommend checking out his books and learning more about the work he's doing. You can find more information about Brian and his work on our website, unsolicitedperspectives.com. Go show him some love and support the work that he's doing.
01:00:01
Speaker
Now, before we end, I want to leave you with one final thought. One of the biggest misconceptions about mental health is that healing is supposed to happen quickly.
01:00:12
Speaker
We live in a world where almost everything is instant. We expect fast answers, quick results, and overnight change. Somewhere along the way, we started believing our minds should work the same way.
01:00:23
Speaker
And let me give you guys the answer to that. It doesn't. Healing takes time. It takes honesty. It takes patience. Some days you'll feel like you've made incredible progress, and the very next day you'll wonder if you made any progress at all.
01:00:39
Speaker
That's part of the process. And if you've tried therapy before and walked away thinking it didn't work, don't let that be the end of your story. Finding the right therapist is like finding the right doctor or trainer or teacher or mentor. Not every person is going to be the right fit.
01:00:55
Speaker
Not every form of therapy is going to connect with you. But that doesn't mean therapy doesn't work. It means you haven't found what works for you. Keep a looking.
01:01:06
Speaker
Maybe it's traditional talk therapy. Maybe it's cognitive behavioral therapy. Maybe it's group therapy. Maybe it's meditation or journaling or faith exercise or any combination of all of those things.
01:01:17
Speaker
Whatever healthy plan helps you heal, commit to it. And if that path isn't helping anymore, don't quit on yourself. Find another one because your mental health is worth fighting for.
01:01:32
Speaker
But here's the uncomfortable part people don't want to talk about. Too many people would rather live with familiar pain than face a discomfort of healing. We spend years carrying anxiety, depression, trauma, grief, anger, or shame.
01:01:49
Speaker
Because as painful as it is, it's become familiar. We know how to survive with it. We know what tomorrow looks like if we never change. What scares us isn't always the pain.
01:02:01
Speaker
Sometimes what scares us is the uncertainty of becoming someone we've never been before. Healing asks you to confront the parts of yourself you spent years avoiding. It asks you to have conversations you've been running away from. It asks you to forgive, to let go, to be vulnerable, to ask for help, and sometimes to have admit that the version of you that survived isn't the version of you that's going to heal.
Effort in Mental Health Improvement
01:02:28
Speaker
Nobody can do that work for you. People can love you. They can encourage you. They can pray for you. They can recommend a therapist. They can sit beside you while you're struggling.
01:02:39
Speaker
But eventually, you have to decide that your piece is worth the effort. Because at the end of the day, your greatest responsibility isn't proving to the world how strong you are.
01:02:51
Speaker
It's becoming healthy enough that you no longer have to pretend who you are. Ladies and gentlemen, and I want to thank you for listening. I want to thank you for watching.
01:03:02
Speaker
And until next time, as always, I'll holla.
01:03:09
Speaker
That was a hell of a show. Thank you for rocking with us here on Unsolicited Perspectives with Bruce Anthony. Now, before you go, don't forget to follow, subscribe, like, comment, and share our podcast wherever you're listening or watching it to it. Pass it along to your friends. If you enjoy it, that means the people that you rock will will enjoy it also. So share the wealth, share the knowledge, share the noise.
01:03:32
Speaker
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01:03:43
Speaker
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01:04:12
Speaker
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01:04:26
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you for listening and watching and supporting us. And I'll catch you next time. Audi 5000. Peace.