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Bonus Episode: An Interview with Miranda’s Victim Writer and Producer George Kolber
3.2k Plays2 years ago
(Image courtesy of Vertical)
We’ve all heard of our Miranda Rights. Some of us know that they originated as the result of a 1966 Supreme Court decision in the Miranda v. Arizona case. But few of us know the details of Miranda’s crime. The film Miranda’s Victim will finally right that wrong and tell the story of the true hero: Trish Weir. Writer and producer of the film George Kolber, joins Allison in an interview about the film, its importance, and some easter eggs in the movie. The film will premier in select theaters as well as Video On Demand today-- October 6th, 2023.
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Transcript
Introduction to Coffee and Cases Podcast
00:00:36
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron.
00:00:45
Speaker
We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement. So justice and closure can be brought to these families with each case. We encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, coffee and cases podcast, because as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee and listen to what's brewing this week.
Introduction to 'Miranda's Victim' Film
00:01:13
Speaker
Those who are our listeners to our show have now heard our coverage of the history of the Miranda Warning, which will be featured in the upcoming film entitled Miranda's Victim, featuring esteemed actors like Abigail Breslin, Ryan Phillippe,
00:01:29
Speaker
Luke Wilson, Donald Sutherland, and so many more talented actors. In today's episode, we have the privilege of speaking with the film's writer and producer, George Kolber. Welcome, George. Good morning. How are you? It is noon, so right smack down in the middle.
George Kolber's Entry into Film Industry
00:01:51
Speaker
So George, if you would please tell our listeners just initially what drew you into the film industry in the beginning. I mean, did you always know that this is what you were destined to do?
00:02:03
Speaker
Well, the answer is absolutely not. I'm on the older side. I'm not looking for another career. But I think the career found me in as much as I think we were all affected by the pandemic. And I found myself at home on the web.
00:02:24
Speaker
looking for toilet paper and masks. In the background, the TV is on. And I hear somebody reading the Miranda warning. Some detective is reading somebody at Miranda warning. And I thought about it for a second. I said, you know something? I knew a guy that alleged that he worked for the state of Arizona on this case. So I started to look Lou up. And I started with this US Supreme Court.
The Story of the Miranda Case
00:02:50
Speaker
And I found no mention of Lou.
00:02:53
Speaker
So then I went backwards to the Arizona Supreme Court. And again, I found no mention of Luke. However, I did find the beginnings of the story of Miranda.
00:03:05
Speaker
I said, well, who is Miranda? And I looked at this guy and this guy was a bad guy. I mean, he was not a good guy. He got a dishonorable discharge. He sexually assaulted a number of women. He was a car thief. He was a robber. I mean, you know, he was just a really not a good guy. I said, well, what happened to him, you know, and
00:03:27
Speaker
And I looked at it, and I found out how he died. I said, well, what an irony. I mean, an ultimate irony. And then I said, but who was the victim? Who started this whole thing? And then I went back. I employed my niece, who was also off during the pandemic, who happens to have a doctorate in chemistry. So I know she's a good researcher. And the two of us sat there. We dug through old police reports. We looked at old transcripts. We looked at all.
00:03:55
Speaker
the victims' high school records, and we tracked her down. And I must tell you, you know, what we started to uncover was fascinating. And more than anything else, I realized that this was an important story. I wasn't looking for fame or fortune, quite frankly. I was trying to convey what I think is an important story because people really didn't
00:04:21
Speaker
understand where Miranda comes from, Miranda writes. Most think people think Miranda is some sort of a hero, or they think it's a woman. They really don't know, but I hope I answered your question. I really think that's the background of how we found the story.
Finding the Real Victim, Trish
00:04:39
Speaker
Now, when you were doing all of this research, at what point did you realize, okay, I have to go straight to the source and find her?
00:04:50
Speaker
We, you know, wrote a whole script. And I realized, you know, after the pandemic, when we could go outside, you know, I was able to track down her address. And I said, you know what, we got to get things right.
00:05:08
Speaker
uh you know we speculated on some things but we just did not have uh you know we we you know you can't rely totally on transcripts to get the look and the feel of what's going on behind the scenes what's going on especially in uh in Trisha's uh mind and what she personally had to deal with so uh in June of 2021
00:05:32
Speaker
I tracked her down. Actually, I tracked her down to a campground. And I was able to, this is a story in and of itself, but I was able to talk to her. And quite frankly, she didn't want to talk to me. The good news is I had my wife with me, and she was more open since my wife was with me and more willing to talk.
00:05:55
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. That was going to be my next question is why you think she was finally ready to tell her story after so long? She wasn't. Right. She really wasn't ready. You were good at the art of persuasion.
00:06:12
Speaker
Well, you know what happened is it surprised her. And she kept this a secret for 60 years, even from her family. So what happened is that with the help of her daughter, actually tracked her daughter down first, who said, come on, follow me to the campground. And I followed her to the campground where we were able to meet with Trish. It was a total surprise. But what I said was, listen, I wrote a story about you.
00:06:40
Speaker
And I'm going to tell the story whether or not you like it. I want you to understand something. You're a hero.
Focus on the Victim's Story
00:06:45
Speaker
And this is an important story. So I really need to have your input in order to tell the story the right way. And she was reluctant. We sat there and talked for about 45 minutes an hour. And then I got her to agree to a follow-up interview. And we had another discussion for about three hours.
00:07:09
Speaker
She came around but I think the when the family finally found out what the story was about especially her two daughters They also realized how important was and and they started to encourage her to even tell the story Yeah, and you know, there's a I won't ruin it for our listeners, but there's a scene in the movie that gets to the crux of what you were just talking about in terms of heroic action and that's a
00:07:37
Speaker
probably my favorite scene in the film. And I, I just have to say, I mean, I love the fact that you, you shift the script to focus on the victim because I feel like it's such a shame that Miranda is the name that's remembered rather than this hero that was his victim.
00:08:02
Speaker
Well, you know, it's interesting. And that's the first thought that a lot of people have. Why did they name the law Miranda? You know, he's not the victim. And Tricia will be the first to tell you that she thinks the rule is good. The Miranda rights is good. She just thinks it's named after a bad person. And I asked her, I said, well, what should we call it? She goes, well, what's wrong with just civil rights? Right, exactly. Yeah.
00:08:30
Speaker
So since this film is based on a true story, what guidelines or special care do you feel like you need to follow as a writer and as a producer to be accurate?
Ensuring Film Accuracy
00:08:48
Speaker
The story had to be told accurately. So again, we looked at the transcripts. We did an awful lot of research to make sure. And people said, well, what did you dramatize and so forth? Actually, it's Michelle who did all the drama. The story was there.
00:09:10
Speaker
The story is pretty accurate. Of course, you had to take a little bit of license in a couple places, but Michelle did something extraordinary, which was, and I mean Michelle Danner, of course, she was able to figure out which are the right actors and convince them.
00:09:27
Speaker
that they were there, that their role was important. It didn't take much convincing. Yeah. The actors, for most of them, it was like a passion project, quite frankly. Understood the importance of it. And it was a passion project for all of them. So I'm pleased to say, I think it shows, but it's Michelle who actually brought it out of all of them. Right.
00:09:54
Speaker
What, if any, were your key challenges in creating this film? Well, the first challenge was finding the right director.
Choosing the Director
00:10:08
Speaker
And I interviewed a number of directors. I knew two things. One, it had to be a female director, because I don't believe a male could possibly comprehend
00:10:23
Speaker
the pain that a woman went through in the 1960s especially. Michelle flew out to New Jersey to meet with me not once but twice. She showed her commitment and she understood the story and she said to me,
00:10:45
Speaker
that she had to be the one to tell the story. And I believed her. And so that was the first thing that we had to make sure. The other thing is, you know, this is Arizona in the 1960s. Now, I mean, I don't know if your viewers know, but I'm on the other side of 70. And I remember the 1960s. It was a passion for me. It was so good to relive going back and visit a time period that I knew and understood.
00:11:16
Speaker
But, you know, also, you but you have to find the architect you have to have the background we had to transport everybody back into the 1960s and not only the 1960s, but Phoenix, Arizona.
Filming Locations and Community Support
00:11:31
Speaker
You know, we visited a lot of locations. We went to Phoenix. Phoenix was not going to work out because it modernized. It changed. It didn't even look like itself in the 1960s. Right. But some commissioner from New Jersey had just recently passed the TV Film and Industry Commission had just passed some incredible incentives in New Jersey. And when I started looking at it, I said, hey,
00:12:01
Speaker
Why don't we shoot it in New Jersey? And then I looked around and I said, well, if we're going to shoot it in New Jersey, why not in my backyard? So we shot it throughout Monmouth County, New Jersey. And I've got to tell you something. We knew where all the older buildings were. We knew the antique motoring club of Monmouth County.
00:12:21
Speaker
provided a lot of vehicles. We were able to identify churches. We were able to identify an old police and courthouse that was about to be knocked down. We used Monmouth University, which has some incredibly historic buildings that they permitted us to use. And we created a wonderful background for the U.S. Supreme Court
00:12:45
Speaker
for the Pinella Court and where the second trial took place. It was just wonderful. And I was so delighted to be able to shoot it right here in New Jersey, certainly in my background, my backyard, excuse me. But getting all of those pieces together, this is the first time I ever produced a movie. It was daunting, all the locations.
00:13:12
Speaker
Yeah, getting the cast and the crew. Thankfully, Michelle has been there, done that. And she had a team of people that were able to be assembled. And so not only did she bring the actors, but she also brought a team of people that helped produce and film the movie. That's wonderful. It truly sounds like it was just a community effort. And I love that.
00:13:36
Speaker
That's an understatement. Last night we had a special screening at Monmouth University and the turnout was incredible and all the community people that were so inspirational and supportive showed up and they just actually cheered.
00:14:01
Speaker
and the movie, which is a little bit bad, which is a little embarrassing at times. But I must tell you, we live in a very unique community. I'm pleased to say, as everybody came together to make sure this happened the right way. That's wonderful. And you must have been, I can only imagine, just in awe of the acting talent for each one of those. You couldn't have picked a better cast in my mind.
00:14:30
Speaker
Well, I've got to tell you something, you know, I knew they do a good job, but the level of performance that they they did, I think was extraordinary. I do think that, you know, listen, I'm not any kind of nominating committee, but I think any number one of these acts.
00:14:47
Speaker
actors could be nominated for anything, especially Abigail Breslin and Ryan Fleabay and I think Michelle. You know, we were in an awful lot of film festivals and we were very successful
00:15:04
Speaker
in winning and garnering an awful lot of votes for all those particular categories. So, you know, we're very fortunate, you know. Again, but the most important thing is that this is an important story that people need to know and understand. Right. And I'm just hoping that it garners the attention that it deserves.
00:15:26
Speaker
So what absolutely what would you say was I guess your ultimate message or goal when you I know you wanted to tell the story but was there I guess some sort of message that you truly want to get across? You know that that it's interesting and what I want people to do is to decide for themselves.
00:15:52
Speaker
You know, this is sort of social justice versus, you know, victims of sexual assault. And which is more important? I am not going, I think in everybody's own mind, they have their own sense of values. I think they're both important. Which one is more important? I leave that up to the viewer. Right.
00:16:17
Speaker
I guess that leads to my follow-up question of what effect do you feel the film will have on what we obviously can see is really a still sadly contentious topic of sexual assault for so many and the Me Too movement. And I was thinking about
Panel Discussion on Sexual Violence
00:16:37
Speaker
this specifically with a statistic that you end the film with. So what effect do you think that the film will have
00:16:46
Speaker
on those conversations? Well, I think the most important thing is that in the 1960s, there was no infrastructure in place to help women of sexual violence. The doctors were all male.
00:17:12
Speaker
There were no rape kits. The police were all male. And women, a lot of this was just so what? And I think we touch on the fact that perhaps Trish's mom, Ziola, who loves her so much, but she does not want her to experience what
00:17:43
Speaker
she experienced in the past. And the only thing women could do at that time was suppress it just to let it go, you know, let it go and move on with your life. And don't make mention of it because, you know, it may affect your future. And so today we don't have
00:18:05
Speaker
that situation, maybe we do, but there are certainly more support groups available. And in fact, we end with the founder of the RAIN, which is Rape Abuse Incest National Network. And last night, Scott Berkowitz, the founder in 1994, was up and he moderated a panel discussion that we had at Monmouth University.
00:18:32
Speaker
And the statistics are, since 1994, 4.2
00:18:40
Speaker
million calls were made to the National Sexual Abuse Hotline. And he now averages 300,000 a year. And that network ties into a network all around the country where people are waiting just to help victims, guide them, and deal with the trauma of sexual assault.
00:19:09
Speaker
What we did also last night was pretty unique in as much as we introduced Trish, the real Trish, to the world for the first time. Oh, wow. And I got to tell you, it was very emotional for everybody in the crowd. The actors, especially to see the courage of this woman who after 60 years comes out and encourages story to be told. You know, we had a
00:19:39
Speaker
a different subtitle that we were playing around with when we were trying to figure out how to market the movie. And the subtitle was, Before Me Too, there was Trish. But times are different today. There were teams in place to help victims of sexual assault. And we just encourage everybody
00:20:04
Speaker
to report it. Reporting it will stop it someplace else. And chances are if somebody's an assaulter once, he's probably, he will assault more and more times. If we stop him now, it will definitely stop some in the future that we'll never even know about. But that's what's important. Report it, report it, report it.
00:20:26
Speaker
I really like that subtitle that you were toying around with with the Before Me Too There Was Trish because I think that gets to really her status as a hero because currently there's a there is a lot of I don't want to say a lot because there are many people who are out there suffering and they feel like they're alone but there there are support groups like you said there are
00:20:53
Speaker
institutions in place to provide information and help, but before that here is Trish who is really kind of facing this battle alone, especially with some of the people around her.
00:21:10
Speaker
What should be her support group who because of society at the time are saying oh no suppress this no Let's not you know follow through and it really was you know her personal conviction to continue on Yeah, no doubt and then she
00:21:29
Speaker
After the second trial, she just went on with her life. And then she said, what choice did she have? She just had to move forward. There was nobody there to help her. And that's exactly what she did. But she did move away from Phoenix area and relocated herself to a couple of places ending up near West Point in New York.
00:21:54
Speaker
Wonderful. I'm just I'm so glad that that you were able to get in contact with her. And even if it took a little bit of convincing that she she wanted to take part in the film, I feel like it just lends the message and the historical accuracy, just so much more credence to have her involved.
00:22:15
Speaker
I'm delighted. And the other thing that's interesting is not only her support, but the support of her family. And if you remember, we had the wedding scene and a lot of her family members were in the background in the wedding scene. Oh, wonderful. Yeah. And one of the things is you'll see Josh Bowman after the wedding scene comes out and kisses somebody. Well, that's really Trish that he kisses. So pay attention.
00:22:45
Speaker
That's amazing. Little tidbit there for our listeners to be looking for.
Cultural References in the Film
00:22:51
Speaker
So in terms of the film, obviously it's set in the 60s, there are lots of cultural references to both film and music. So did you think about when you were including those, I guess the symbolic meaning behind the particular films and the songs that you included in the film as it relates to Trish, as it relates to the court case?
00:23:14
Speaker
Yeah, yes, and I don't know if you noted this, but You Don't Own Me, which was made famous by Leslie Gore, is the message that, you know, Trish, we give Trish to say her, you know, as she's getting ready to go into the courthouse and testify for the second time. But you'd be interested to know that You Don't Own Me was actually sung by Abigail Breslin. Really?
00:23:44
Speaker
Yep. Wow. You didn't realize she had such a great voice. I didn't. Well, she is definitely multi-talented. Yes, she is. So, yeah, and even the choices of the films, obviously, To Kill a Mockingbird resonates with this film. Yeah, no doubt. You know, and Saturday night at the movies, you know, as Mireille Anosis or as Yola is pulling up in front of the movie theater,
00:24:13
Speaker
You know, all of those were really, we're trying to make you feel the correct emotion at that proper scene. And we think we captured a lot of, you know, the timing and the sense and the feeling of the 1960s. Again, you know, I grew up in the 60s and it was great for me. I just loved it. That's awesome.
00:24:38
Speaker
Were there any funny anecdotes or anything like that from the filmmaking process? Too many. I'll give you a couple though. Okay. What I talked to you about, and people can watch out for this, you know, Marie Anos is pulling up in front of the theater. Now she's pulling up in a 1955 Ford Fairlane.
00:24:59
Speaker
And, you know, I didn't realize, but she just got in the car and they told her to drive up there. And they did. I said, but she didn't practice driving the car. Understand something. In 1955, Ford Fairlane does not have power brakes. Oh, no. I said, what are you doing? It was too late. She had already started. The same thing happened with Josh Bowman when he pulls up in front of the hospital. And Josh is a Britisher. So the steering wheels on the other side on top of her.
00:25:29
Speaker
But I think one of the scenes that I remember, and I guess Michelle and Emily and Abigail will probably get mad at me. But one of the scenes is that you see a scene where
00:25:45
Speaker
where Abigail is ironing in the house. And I walk in on the scene and I see, I say, you know, is Abigail left-handed? And they said, no, why? I said, well, you got the ironing board the wrong way. Here are the three women that had no idea how to position an ironing board. So, you know, those are the kinds of things. There were a lot of great things, a lot of great anecdotes. And I smile all the time.
00:26:15
Speaker
Yeah, because now we just throw our clothes in the dryer to get their wrinkles out. I mean, that's the current ironing process.
00:26:29
Speaker
Listen, it was a great experience for me. I loved it. I think the most important thing is that it sends a great message and I'm into important messages. I said, listen, I can't do fantasy. I can't do fiction. I can't create worlds. I just know that the people
00:26:52
Speaker
that we used the characters, excuse me, you know, Cooley, Detective Cooley, John Flynn. They are all real characters and we were very well researched, unbelievable. Judge Wren, you know, a lot of the script came from the transcripts, you know, that we dug out. So,
00:27:18
Speaker
I can tell you, this was a passion project for everybody and certainly for me and my niece and everybody that sort of worked on this thing. You could see they understood it and loved it. Right. One final question for you, George. What kind of legacy do you hope to leave in the film industry?
Project Passion and Team Dedication
00:27:40
Speaker
You know,
00:27:42
Speaker
As I said, on the north side is 70 here. I just wanted to make sure the story got told. I've had a reasonably successful business career. I could understand if I was 30, 40 or 50 that I would seek fame and fortune and
00:28:01
Speaker
want to build on the legacy. But, you know, I just think that the story is more important than any person, including me. And I must tell you that I just, you know, I do have one other story I want to tell. I wasn't looking for leaving a legacy. That was not my intention. Yeah.
00:28:25
Speaker
So thank you so much, George, for joining me for this interview. And listeners, please make sure that you check out the film Miranda's Victim. It is both powerful and important. And to close, would you mind to please tell everyone when and where they can watch Miranda's Victim? Well, I wish they would tell me.
00:28:53
Speaker
I know we're in five major cities on October the 6th, Los Angeles, New York being two of them. I think Philadelphia is one of them. They haven't informed me about the other two.
00:29:04
Speaker
But it will be a video on demand also on October the 6th. So the best I can say is look it up. It'll be on websites. It'll be out there. But please, by all means, go and see it if you can. I think that there's a lot of value to seeing it on a big screen. And the sound, we really went out of our way to make sure we try to capture the feel and the look of the 60s. And that's best on the big screen. But if you can't get it on the big screen, by all means, please download it.
00:29:35
Speaker
Absolutely. And we will get that information. We will post it in our show notes. So if our listeners aren't in one of those major cities where it is showing on the big screen, they can have access and know exactly where to go to view it. Thank you so much for having this conversation with me today. And I'm excited to get feedback from our listeners because I know that they're, they're really going to see the importance of the film as well.
00:30:01
Speaker
Well, thank you for honoring me with this interview. And I look forward to hearing you some more. Thank you. All right. Thank you so much.
Engaging Listeners in Solving Cold Cases
00:30:11
Speaker
Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Twitter, at casescoffee, on Instagram, at coffee cases podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcastatgmail.com. Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon.
00:30:40
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.