Transcript
Speaker: Thanks for tuning into the loser kid pinball podcast.
Speaker: We're on episode one 14.
Speaker: I am Josh Roop.
Speaker: My co-captain has decided to fly off to another country.
Speaker: He will not be back for a couple of weeks, but in the meantime, we have an exciting guest on today.
Speaker: But before I get to him, I want to remind you venom just released.
Speaker: It's looking amazing.
Speaker: The gameplay footage is fantastic.
Speaker: If you haven't checked that out, go on YouTube.
Speaker: But if you want that game, hit up Zach and Nicole many at flipping out.
Speaker: I just got my foo fighters on my birthday last Tuesday, literally four o'clock on my birthday showed up.
Speaker: It was the best birthday present ever.
Speaker: And it's been a fantastic game.
Speaker: I am just loving this game.
Speaker: My family's loving this game.
Speaker: If you want that magic in your home, give Zach and Nicole many a call, or you can do like I do.
Speaker: I go on Facebook and I hit them up through messenger.
Speaker: And that way it's easier to get maybe a response.
Speaker: And kind of keep a track of, like, did I message him?
Speaker: Did I not?
Speaker: But anywho, enough of that.
Speaker: I have...
Speaker: an absolute i don't know how to i don't there's no words to really describe how amazing this man is his artwork is driven the whole art front in pinball in my opinion he's a two-time twippy winning champion which means he has the most whoopies for artwork and it's year the yeti the sequel first it was avengers and ninja turtles and now we have venom and foo fighters so if you'll please welcome jeremy packer aka zombie yeti how are you doing sir
Speaker: I'm doing well.
Speaker: Other than you bring up something interesting, which is, if you recall the year of Turtles and Avengers, I did not win a Twippy.
Speaker: That is really weird to me.
Speaker: I split the vote.
Speaker: No, I split the vote for starting.
Speaker: So, whatever.
Speaker: Way to go.
Speaker: You were fighting yourself and someone else won.
Speaker: Nothing against awards.
Speaker: It's all nice and good.
Speaker: But don't worry, guys.
Speaker: I don't lose sleep.
Speaker: So what do you have?
Speaker: Yeah, we won't even talk about the competition on that one.
Speaker: I don't even know.
Speaker: I don't even know.
Speaker: I don't have all my I don't even have all my awards.
Speaker: And the ones that I do have, I think, are like in like a storage area or something.
Speaker: I don't I don't.
Speaker: Well, if you beat Franchi again this year, you've got to he tries to do the twippy stomp.
Speaker: And, you know, he's got to do it again.
Speaker: I think he's got like.
Speaker: four games coming out yet or something or something like that which galactic king force just came out in the in march or something like that yeah yeah but enough about that though but your artwork is everywhere this year how you feeling about this i apologize i actually uh so by the way i don't make the schedule
Speaker: And it just so happens that in this case, two games were scheduled back to back where licensors had me as part of the ask and the contract.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And and like I remember when when it all came about and they were talking about it and I kept going like like, you know, this isn't this isn't going to be fun.
Speaker: Like, this isn't going to be conducive for me to try to do my best work.
Speaker: I was concerned for that, right?
Speaker: Because I'm always concerned about, you know, being able to do the best that I possibly can with the time that I have.
Speaker: But in the end, you know, it was a similar situation with Turtles and Avengers where...
Speaker: the first game gets sort of a more attention.
Speaker: And then, and then the second game is like the, the, the rush to the finish line.
Speaker: Now, in this case, it wasn't quite as bad as turtles and Avengers.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Because technically I had started doing a sketching on, on, on, um, Venom before it became, uh, you know, a priority, uh, to do, um,
Speaker: Foo Fighters.
Speaker: Uh, and, and yeah, but, but, but actually there's so much more to it, but yes.
Speaker: Um, but yeah, I, I am, I apologize because I, the last thing I want to do is, uh, make people get tired of me.
Speaker: And so, so I remember when they told me that these were going to be back to back, I said, uh, well, if, can you guys just not blame me, uh, when the year's over and you look at the, at the, uh,
Speaker: The numbers, like, just don't blame me.
Speaker: That goes both ways, by the way.
Speaker: Well, and honestly, these packages are looking fantastic.
Speaker: And the one, so let's talk Foo Fighters first, because when we both kind of discussed this, you said this was like a project 10 years in the making or something like that.
Speaker: So tell me more about that.
Speaker: So, like, I think the first, I mean, it's kind of true.
Speaker: So from my side of it,
Speaker: I first started doing work for the band merch work in like 2011, I think, 2011, 2012.
Speaker: As a matter of fact, some of the, some of the things I did during that time, they still like, it's, it's sort of made its way to now it's still being used.
Speaker: It's a lot of it is, is still sort of being iterated and I can, I can send you some of that stuff here.
Speaker: But, but anyway, yeah,
Speaker: And so, you know, that's a very impersonal situation.
Speaker: You know, you're working with like a third party or whatever.
Speaker: But over time, you get, you know, requests to do more and whatever.
Speaker: And it was actually like 2016 or 2017.
Speaker: Really bad with numbers, by the way.
Speaker: That's why I don't do anything with numbers.
Speaker: I just I can color pictures and draw things.
Speaker: But anyway, so what happened was they had asked me to start doing some gig posters and that actually comes from, in this case at the time it came from management.
Speaker: And so then it sort of parlays into something a little different.
Speaker: Anyway, tangentially at the same time in a parallel world,
Speaker: They were looking to do a pinball game.
Speaker: And so there were conversations being made, you know, obviously out of my purview.
Speaker: And it just so happened at the same time, you know, I'm doing, you know, Iron Maiden, I'm doing, you know, Primus, all these things.
Speaker: And so I think it was it was after Primus, Iron Maiden and Deadpool that year that it got on my radar.
Speaker: and actually management was like, Hey, by the way, we're, we're looking to do a game with Stern.
Speaker: We're, we're getting things going and, and we were making it.
Speaker: So you're going to be the guy to do it.
Speaker: And I go, Oh, that's cool.
Speaker: Like, that's nice.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And then obviously Jody Dankberg's the guy who handles all that stuff at Stern.
Speaker: And so Jody gave me a heads up as well.
Speaker: And I go, okay, so they weren't just telling me lies.
Speaker: They were telling me the truth.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: And, and, and from there, it's sort of,
Speaker: I remember having meetings like, like zoom calls with, with the, the management about the project early on, like probably as early as 2019.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: There was even another designer that was on it for a period of time.
Speaker: I think I can say that.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Uh, and, and, but it was sort of like a weird transition time.
Speaker: And so it kind of was like, well, let's, you know, anyway, you know, we had zoom calls.
Speaker: I remember the first zoom call we had with Dave and, uh, he went ahead and basically made fun of all of our environments that, uh, where we were like our offices and stuff like that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I'm like, well, that's real nice, sir.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Actually, that's not true.
Speaker: I was very quiet.
Speaker: I tried to be on my best behavior, so I didn't look like a total nerd.
Speaker: But anyway, so it was a long time.
Speaker: So I had time to think about it for years.
Speaker: And I actually kind of worked a lot of my gig poster concepts around sort of these little vignetted ideas that I started to sort of pad out in my head of where this could go and what it could be.
Speaker: Not ever thinking it actually would end up being what could actually be in the game.
Speaker: Because I didn't know who I was going to be working with.
Speaker: I didn't know where it was going to go.
Speaker: And it just so happens it was, it was Jack and Tanya and Jack and Jack and Tanya for some reason, listen to me and like me and respect me.
Speaker: And, and so they, when I, when I pitch ideas to them, they made them sound way better than what I thought they were.
Speaker: And so, so I sort of like laid on the table and,
Speaker: you know, my whole sort of backstory for, for some of, of, you know, the character of, of what became the overlord.
Speaker: He didn't really have a name at that time.
Speaker: And, and just between all of us, you know, sort of having these sort of zoom powwows, it just started, you know, avalanche and, and I just come up with concepts and toss them to them.
Speaker: And,
Speaker: and assume they were terrible and they'd all be like, no, this is great.
Speaker: And then it would get me all excited and give me confidence to go, well, I think I'm going to dig in a little further with this stupidity.
Speaker: And anyway, and then the band, the band was totally on board.
Speaker: And I do, I do recall, I will take credit for this.
Speaker: I think I was the first one to say this.
Speaker: And I just said, listen, guys, this is probably the closest we're ever going to get to being able to do an original theme.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's not an original theme, but what they're allowing us to do here is the closest we're going to have.
Speaker: Probably as long as I'm in pinball, I don't, you know, who knows, maybe things will change, but, but I go, this is, this is probably the one.
Speaker: So let's not drop the ball on it.
Speaker: And, and, uh, I was, I was trying to be like, um,
Speaker: you know, supportive and energetic and like be like, hey, guys, this is great.
Speaker: But at the same time, it's also a lot a lot of weight when you look at it that way.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So so.
Speaker: But, you know, thankfully, you know, working with Jack and working with Tanya was was, you know, it was easy and breezy.
Speaker: I mean, those guys are great.
Speaker: Tanya and I had worked on Deadpool.
Speaker: You know, and we bonded quite a bit on Deadpool, especially when it changed designers.
Speaker: You know, we were kind of in the woods on our own for a while.
Speaker: And so, you know, we have a really good rapport in that regard.
Speaker: And then, and Jack, I don't know if you know this or not, but Jack, you know, he is tall.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Which is funny because you're tall yourself.
Speaker: No, no, but he makes me feel short, so I don't like him because of that.
Speaker: Don't tell him that.
Speaker: We won't say a word.
Speaker: Anyone who makes me feel like I make somebody else feel.
Speaker: No, he's extremely dumb.
Speaker: No, Jack, it was interesting with Jack because he was kind of, I don't think I'm telling tales out of school to say this, but Jack was really, you know, he had done Jurassic Park and he had a lot of great ideas.
Speaker: And I think
Speaker: It was just sort of, you know, he was learning the process on a cornerstone of, and it's sort of, you know, the team coming together, everything.
Speaker: And I think that worked in his favor and to our favor because, you know, like he, some things he would go like, well, what about this?
Speaker: That somebody else might go, I know we can't do that.
Speaker: And then in the process, he would kind of come to a compromise
Speaker: He's a very efficient designer in that regard, which I relate to because to do what I do in the timeframe, you know, efficiency is very important.
Speaker: You know, like you don't, you got to use every, every second as best you can.
Speaker: So, but yeah, I don't know.
Speaker: There's, did I go too long on that?
Speaker: No, not at all.
Speaker: You know me, I can't shut up.
Speaker: There's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker: People love it.
Speaker: Well, and the other question I had too, because you, if I understood correctly, you're brought in a lot earlier on the foo fighters process than most pinball machines.
Speaker: Was that because of the relationship and whatnot?
Speaker: It, well, it definitely was, but I will say this over the years I had, um, shoehorned myself in as early as possible on the projects I was attached to because I wanted to be able to get, you know, it,
Speaker: so when I dig into a project, like I really, I promise you there's until I completely get it until it clicks and until I have sort of my direction and sort of, you know, what really sort of drives me and excites me, makes me feel like I'm, you know, 13 years old again or whatever, which, which drives, you know, the, the, the focus and ambition to not fail by the way.
Speaker: Uh, so it's a good thing, but, but, but I, I,
Speaker: want to start as early as possible.
Speaker: And by the way, I wouldn't, I wouldn't charge a lot of times, even for some of those hours for things like that.
Speaker: Like, I'd be like, listen, just in my spare time, just give me a heads up on where we're going.
Speaker: Let me kind of feel this out and make some decisions.
Speaker: I would come up with different concepts for my direction visually on what I think we could do.
Speaker: Godzilla is a great example.
Speaker: So Godzilla is probably the first one where I started.
Speaker: I think I started right after
Speaker: Avengers.
Speaker: And like, even though I wasn't set to start, I said, I want to start.
Speaker: I want to feel this one out.
Speaker: I want to decide where, you know, where to go.
Speaker: I want to make sure I'm going the right direction.
Speaker: And so I was able to put a little bit more focus.
Speaker: I did a lot of sketches and a lot of them, you know, will never see the light of day.
Speaker: I didn't even show them to the team or whatever.
Speaker: I just, you know, throw them away, whatever.
Speaker: I mean, well, obviously I still have them, but, but, but at the same time, it was one of those things where, where I was able to, by doing that, have a much better understanding of where I could go and where I couldn't go.
Speaker: So coming up with creative solutions, um,
Speaker: for certain things, it made it a lot easier because I don't rush to the finish line.
Speaker: I probably, they'd love it if I did, but I kind of feel like I'm doing a disservice if I don't sort of feel my way through something, which sounds pretentious and dumb, but it's not, I promise.
Speaker: I don't purport to be an important artist, by the way.
Speaker: But I'm a careful one.
Speaker: I try not to waste time.
Speaker: Now, I'm sure there's some people on Pinside who would say that I do.
Speaker: Anyway.
Speaker: They don't count.
Speaker: No, no, no.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Everyone counts.
Speaker: So from that experience on Godzilla...
Speaker: And just going, you know, that worked out well.
Speaker: And then seeing the response to Godzilla, which was so positive, minus the watermelon crowd.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: I said, well, I've got to have another main character with Green.
Speaker: What's my next project?
Speaker: And they said, Foo Fighters.
Speaker: I said, no problem.
Speaker: I'll figure it out.
Speaker: Anyway, that's an Overlord joke.
Speaker: But
Speaker: No, so I wanted to start immediately, as soon as I could, after Godzilla, because, number one, I knew that, and actually it was Venom that I started on after Godzilla.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And I think I had done concept sketches for cabinets, and
Speaker: uh, and, and, uh, and, and back glasses, but we're talking like thumbnails, like they weren't very refined.
Speaker: It was just sort of, well, here's an idea.
Speaker: Here's the direction.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And, uh, cause don't you guys do that when you're, when you're doing concepts for pinball machines, don't you do start out small and kind of just paste it on there.
Speaker: So that way it gives it a general direction.
Speaker: Well, I don't.
Speaker: Well, yeah, so I just basically make a very, I make the templates very small so that I stay loose and I say I don't get too, because I can get caught up in like stupid details and it's a terrible thing to do.
Speaker: And that's why thumbnails exist for artists.
Speaker: And the concept of it, kids, if you're artists out there and you don't like doing thumbnails, you're doing yourself a disservice.
Speaker: It took me many years to realize this.
Speaker: But color sketches also aren't bad.
Speaker: But, but yeah, I, I, I would come up with concepts.
Speaker: We didn't always blow them up and put them on, on boxes.
Speaker: That actually usually comes when we do like the, the sort of internal reviews with like the exacts and stuff like that.
Speaker: Like that there's times where, where we'll do that.
Speaker: And in the case of,
Speaker: Foo Fighters, we definitely did that because Jack really wanted to sell this concept of what we were doing.
Speaker: And, you know, I think if you saw like sort of the general crowd reaction when it leaked that Foo Fighters was being made, everyone's like, ah, band pin.
Speaker: And I think everybody, like even internally, a lot of people probably to some degree thought, oh, it's a band pin.
Speaker: And we were trying to say, no, no, no, we're not making it a band band.
Speaker: They're there, but it's not really a band band.
Speaker: So to be able to communicate that, that was probably part of the reason why he did that.
Speaker: And also, he's got that radio voice.
Speaker: So when he does presentations, he sounds so confident.
Speaker: Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
Speaker: You can trust what he's doing.
Speaker: Yeah, he makes me feel inadequate in my speaking voice.
Speaker: He's not Jerry Thompson, though.
Speaker: But anyway, shout out to Jerry because he always has the most booming voice whenever he does a podcast.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: I think I worked on Venom until almost Christmas of that year before.
Speaker: And then I started on... So, like, I think I maybe had worked on it.
Speaker: two months or something like that.
Speaker: Three months.
Speaker: I just started inking one of the back glasses.
Speaker: So it was weird.
Speaker: So like when I, when I went to Foo Fighters and I, you know, I went so deep into Foo Fighters, you know, for, you know, 10, 11 months, whatever it was.
Speaker: When I came back to Venom and I looked at stuff that I had done, I'm like, what the hell?
Speaker: Like, like, you know, like I had like a different, like I go, I go, okay, I like this, but what was I thinking over here?
Speaker: And,
Speaker: stuff like that.
Speaker: So like trying to make some adjustments on the fly and everything was, was it was weird for me.
Speaker: It was different, especially because it was a rushed timeline.
Speaker: But, but what I did to make it all sort of gel and make sense to me was I talked with Greg and I'm like, one of the things that has the longest lead time for parts and everything else is obviously the play field.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so they had the play field at that point.
Speaker: It was, it was very much sort of tuned in.
Speaker: There was a lot, you know, little things to be, to be done, but, but it was pretty tuned in.
Speaker: And, and so I talked with Greg and Greg's like, Hey man, why don't you just jump into the play field, figure out the play field.
Speaker: And, and from there, like once you get back to those other pieces, you had already started.
Speaker: you know, you're going to sort of have kind of your anchor or whatever.
Speaker: And so the first thing I did when I jumped into the play field was I tried to think how in the heck can I make sure this doesn't compete with Foo Fighters visually.
Speaker: Now, obviously, if I'm doing it, there's going to be, you know, a little bit of connective tissue in that there's certain things that I like to see, I like to do.
Speaker: you know, versus others.
Speaker: And obviously then the actual layout of the game, the shot paths, everything else that dictates a lot of it, the game rules dictate a lot of it, but, but I did go out of my way to try to make sure that these two games would not look like they were coming from the same universe necessarily.
Speaker: And, and whether, whether that was a success or not is up to other people, but, but I'm, I'm proud of what I got done.
Speaker: considering that I never had a weekend off for two years.
Speaker: So there's that.
Speaker: Well, and they do look great and they do look great.
Speaker: You can definitely tell that you separate the two from each other.
Speaker: You've got a lot of greens and whatnot inside of Foo Fighters and with Venom, it's a lot of blacks and dark purples and blues.
Speaker: Complimented with reds and whatnot.
Speaker: And it looks really good.
Speaker: It looks very, they're very different from each other.
Speaker: I know that when you did turtles and Avengers, the situation was you said that like turtles, you originally started on that and Marvel had requested that you do Avengers and you're like, well, I'm kind of busy right now.
Speaker: And like, if I'm, if I'm available and you haven't found anyone, I'll do it.
Speaker: And then when you got down towards the end of turtles, they're like, so how you doing?
Speaker: Was that kind of a similar situation with this?
Speaker: Or was it more with venom first?
Speaker: Like how did that all work out?
Speaker: Well, so in this case it was different.
Speaker: So, but after Avengers, it was pretty much a Marvel is just like, no, no, no, no.
Speaker: We, we got to work with him type of thing, which is cool.
Speaker: It just is very flattering.
Speaker: It's very nice.
Speaker: It's job security, I guess.
Speaker: And speaking of anyway, but so so on that one, I think they had tried out a few artists even in that in that sort of time period where I was working to finish Turtles.
Speaker: And and by the time I finished Turtles, they had basically rejected everything.
Speaker: And so it's like, OK, it's your turn.
Speaker: And at that point, I said, well, listen, if I do it, I'm like, you know, like I'm going to, you know, this is a lot to get done.
Speaker: And by the way, I would argue in hindsight, and by the way, you should never, as an artist, you should never tell people what you think about your shortcomings.
Speaker: But I don't consider myself an artist because that would be pretentious, like I said.
Speaker: No, I also don't consider myself very good at keeping my mouth shut.
Speaker: So I feel like had I done Avengers before Turtles, Avengers would have been a very different game visually.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Turtles would have ended up the same.
Speaker: So had those two flopped, I may have approached them differently.
Speaker: But because I really changed my approach on Turtles at that time where I'm like, okay, I'm pushing to make
Speaker: you know, curvilinear forms, not, not a lot of, of, you know, hard edge, you know, sort of rectangular shaping, uh, things like that, because I was really trying to, you know, whatever, it's stupid.
Speaker: It sounds pretentious.
Speaker: So now I got to shut up again, but, um, uh, uh, but, uh, that, that's one where I go, oh man, that might've might've looked, you know, different in the case of Venom and Foo Fighters.
Speaker: The only thing that would have been different was my headspace.
Speaker: So I think when I got back to Venom, once I got done with the play field and I felt pretty good about it, it helped sort of, you know, when I got back to those little tiny sketches and I had to flesh them out and then ink and color and everything else, it made it a little bit easier at the end of the day, I think.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: One thing I've noticed too recently is looking at Venom and at Foo Fighters, the animations are a lot more cohesive with the artwork that you're doing.
Speaker: And I bring that up because I love the artwork of Turtles, but I feel that animations are lacking.
Speaker: So have you had something to do with the animations to make it more cohesive?
Speaker: Or is it just teams are working better together?
Speaker: How does that translate?
Speaker: I'm not going to take credit for anything because...
Speaker: Chuck Ernst and his army of talent are really the saviors of it all.
Speaker: So like for instance on Turtles, I think people, like in hindsight, I look at it and I go, okay, so people have a complaint where they go, it's a 2D animated cartoon and they decided to use 3D.
Speaker: In hindsight, even though it's cel-shaded or whatever, like in hindsight, I go, okay, I understand.
Speaker: what people are saying, but, but people, I don't think understand that the amount of work to be done in the timeframe to be done at that time, it was the right decision.
Speaker: And especially because licensors do have say in what can and can't be done.
Speaker: So what you're really seeing on Foo Fighters, sure.
Speaker: My, my, my pitch and idea of, of doing this, you know,
Speaker: cartoon, this, that, and the other, played into it, you know, stuff like that.
Speaker: But at the end of the day, you know, Jack was the leader of this.
Speaker: From the get-go, Jack really wanted to lean into, you know, more of a cartoony style, which lined up perfect for me.
Speaker: And then you have, you know, Chuck Ernst actually seeking out
Speaker: You know, some very talented individuals that that do just that.
Speaker: As a matter of fact, Phil Gullett.
Speaker: I believe he worked on like Animaniacs and like all these other like top tier stuff like between you and me and I'm dead serious.
Speaker: I'll help facilitate this.
Speaker: I could not even begin to give you the laundry list.
Speaker: of people who work on that stuff.
Speaker: And I'm actually going to try to here, see if I can at least find a little, I've said this before.
Speaker: I'm like, somebody needs to just give me a list.
Speaker: Cause I know all these people, I'm friends with them, but at the same time, I always forget people.
Speaker: But like, I think on that one, Paul was, was the lead.
Speaker: Oh no, no, no.
Speaker: That one was Zach.
Speaker: So Foo Fighters was Zach on lead.
Speaker: Oh, so terrible.
Speaker: Paul was on Venom as lead.
Speaker: And then, you know, you've got the Kizovet brothers who always do amazing work, storyboarding, animation, stuff like that.
Speaker: So the timeframes and the budgets on top of the creatives involved are why you get what you get.
Speaker: And so I think what happened was, you know, Turtles was still early in the LCD world.
Speaker: in my opinion.
Speaker: Like it was still, you know, that team of people were, were, you know, like, Oh, what can we do?
Speaker: What can we, you know, what will the license or let's give it?
Speaker: And I think what you're seeing now on these last two games are really, you know, again, it's a testament to that department, Chuck's department, those guys, you know, the, the talent there.
Speaker: And, and, and I, I want to facilitate this.
Speaker: You need to get all of these guys to,
Speaker: on a podcast.
Speaker: Like you literally like maybe just the leads as a starting point, but, but all of the artists that they work with are amazing.
Speaker: And, and you know, I I'll do like character sort of turns for them from the get go.
Speaker: So they sort of have, you know, a little bit of a style get to go with, but, but then I always defer to them.
Speaker: I always say, you guys do what you do.
Speaker: Like,
Speaker: I've got my stuff to worry about.
Speaker: You worry about your stuff.
Speaker: If they need stuff from me, I, I, I, I do it immediately and get it over to them so that they've got some reference for something or whatever.
Speaker: But the creativity, especially in Foo Fighters, that's that team.
Speaker: I don't, I don't, I don't want to take any credit for that.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: Well, you know, I came up with ideas, but they came up with better ideas of, of how to animate, you know, like what to do with it, you know?
Speaker: And a lot of that too, some of that came from, uh,
Speaker: Tanya and his writing partner as well.
Speaker: So it really, I mean, it really is, people don't understand how much of it is a, you know, a, a collaboration on these projects.
Speaker: And, and, you know, the, the, the game designer always is like, oh, the game designer.
Speaker: And listen, they're sort of the director of it.
Speaker: Don't get me wrong.
Speaker: They, they should be.
Speaker: But like, you know, like for me, I'm like considered like lead artist, like lead artist to what?
Speaker: I mean, the LCD work has a lead artist as well.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So so for me, I look at it like, you know, there's there's a whole segment of of people that are just not well represented and getting the recognition they need.
Speaker: So, well, I agree with you.
Speaker: We should do that.
Speaker: Let's do it.
Speaker: I'll make it happen.
Speaker: Sounds good to me.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: And these games are looking great too.
Speaker: Like the Foo Fighters.
Speaker: So you had a lot of freedom in this.
Speaker: Where did this freedom come from?
Speaker: Trust is, is the best place to get it.
Speaker: Every project I've ever worked on.
Speaker: Like I said before, even before I'm on the project, I will, I'll do sketches.
Speaker: I'll do concepts to get buy-in and to get confidence.
Speaker: from the licensor from, you know, early on from Stern.
Speaker: But, and so once you have that confidence in the case of Foo Fighters, I had it already.
Speaker: But at the same time, until we sort of worked out the direction and decided where we were going with it and got that confidence, it was a whole nother story.
Speaker: And I will say, and I don't want to, you know, go too far into it or, you know, labor the point, but
Speaker: The point when, unfortunately, Taylor Hawkins tragically passed was at a very crucial point in the game.
Speaker: Very early in some regards when it comes to sort of, you know, getting the absolutely run with it on certain key things.
Speaker: And that was big.
Speaker: really a gut punch to, uh, I think to everyone, it was, it was sad.
Speaker: It was tragic.
Speaker: And then as sort of, we're picking up the pieces of, of all of that, it's like, then it's like, Oh, but we also need to keep working.
Speaker: Like, what do we do?
Speaker: Like, how do we, how do we proceed?
Speaker: And, and, um, I just kept going.
Speaker: at that point, I'm like, you know what, I think we probably just better move or, you know, just keep going.
Speaker: Let's just assume the best and move on.
Speaker: And thankfully, when the time finally came and we sort of got back in, you know, after, I think, a lot of mourning by everyone, I think what happened was everyone said, you know what?
Speaker: And I think this came from
Speaker: you know, came down directly from the band.
Speaker: Let's, they're like, let's make this a celebration.
Speaker: Let's make this something for all the kids, you know?
Speaker: And, and at that point, like, it's like, you know, everything just sort of was like, boom, you know, that's our, you know, we're back to that, you know, focus that, that love excitement that we had prior, but now it was sort of, you know,
Speaker: it transformed a bit and in a, and in a good way, in my opinion, but, but at the same time, that's not what you want to have happen.
Speaker: I mean, obviously like that's, it's rough.
Speaker: It was difficult for a lot of people on the team as well.
Speaker: And, and I mean, we're a lot, all of us are fans.
Speaker: I don't know that anybody on that team was not a fan.
Speaker: And if they say they're not, you can punch them in the gut.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I just figured that'd be funny, but, and you got to get it on, you got to get video of it.
Speaker: I want to see it.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I'll take full responsibility for the damage.
Speaker: Anyway.
Speaker: So, so yeah, it's, it was, it was different.
Speaker: It was different, but I think everyone involved, the love shows, like I said before, like, you know, when a game hits on all cylinders, you know, it really does show.
Speaker: And I think I've been fortunate.
Speaker: I try to create that from my side of it whenever I'm on a team.
Speaker: And obviously that's where my joke of filling my punch card comes in with working with Brian Eddy and stuff.
Speaker: So that was interesting because I had never worked with Brian before.
Speaker: And Brian's got a completely different style of
Speaker: You know, every designer has a different style, you know?
Speaker: And so it was really coming off of that one with Jack and jumping back in with Brian, you know, he made it a lot easier to sort of pick up from where I was and go.
Speaker: But I do feel like because of the rush, I felt like a little, like I was sort of at a distance at times.
Speaker: you know, with venom because obviously I'm off, you know, finishing up foo and you know, whatever.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Maybe they, maybe that's just mentally my, in, in my head or, or maybe they looked at me like a traitor.
Speaker: No, I'm kidding.
Speaker: You're in camp Eddie now.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: How was, so it was obviously a different experience going in with Eddie and whatnot.
Speaker: You know, the first question that comes to my mind, I know you've had nothing to do with this, but we're getting so many questions of the doppel caker is what some people are naming him because he's got such a big booty.
Speaker: Was that your decision?
Speaker: Did you know the sculptor ended up putting a big butt because his butt crack goes all the way to the back of his neck.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: So so I'm all for butts.
Speaker: They serve.
Speaker: Listen, they're just you know, they're just trying to, you know, help people.
Speaker: survive and get rid of waste.
Speaker: But, oh, but.
Speaker: I said it three times.
Speaker: But four times.
Speaker: That actually was not on me.
Speaker: So I did turnarounds.
Speaker: I did designs.
Speaker: I did give him a but.
Speaker: But I did not, I didn't sculpt.
Speaker: I didn't pose the sculpt.
Speaker: I don't know who was involved in that.
Speaker: I like it because I look at it as a nod to Slimer because Slimer's butt.
Speaker: Yes, very true.
Speaker: You're the connection though too, you know, Ghostbusters and now.
Speaker: Or Dwight.
Speaker: Dwight, true.
Speaker: Actually, I'm going to have to ask him that now.
Speaker: He likes big butts and he cannot lie.
Speaker: That is one thing I will say.
Speaker: Whenever you're on a team with Dwight, you want to talk about excitement.
Speaker: Dwight knows how to be excited.
Speaker: Every meeting, when we're coming up with ideas very early on and all the teams in there, Dwight knows how to make things exciting.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And yeah, I always have fun working with him.
Speaker: Him and I have this weird shorthand for occasionally misinterpreting one another, which is fun, but it all works out.
Speaker: he wouldn't deny that so you talked about you came back to venom and one of the first things you jumped into was the play field was this was this kind of a harder play field because when i look at it there is a ton of leds in this game yeah it was it was difficult in some regard in particular this the anchor point had to be
Speaker: a way to use sort of those inserts that sort of surround and encapsulate rewards, right?
Speaker: And when I got in, because I was on Foo for so long, a lot of the light boards had been done and a lot of the layout of those inserts were there.
Speaker: And I'm like, oh, I could make it so much cooler if we could do this, this, and this.
Speaker: And so I fought a little bit
Speaker: I mean, I don't fight, by the way, but I, you know, kind of pushed to get a few of those changed.
Speaker: And thankfully, they were able to.
Speaker: And so, you know, and it was minor stuff.
Speaker: Again, when a designer lays something out, I don't like to step on their vision, but I do know where there are certain things that you could sort of polish just a hair.
Speaker: And it would make for sort of a better visual layout, you know, artistically speaking and stuff like that.
Speaker: And most, you know, every designer I've ever worked with has no problem with that.
Speaker: And so anyway, so once I got into it, that was my first problem is I go, oh, this is a big area down here where I've got to actually communicate information.
Speaker: They also, each of those,
Speaker: you know, sort of ladders of completion that sort of help you encapsulate that, each of those also had to be communicating that they were, you know, from a different path and a different character path.
Speaker: And so thankfully that's where the RGBs do help a little bit because as much as I can give a visual indication subtly or not so subtly,
Speaker: the ability for Dwight to control, you know, those light colors and everything else helps tremendously.
Speaker: But, yeah, so that was my big problem.
Speaker: The other thing was, in the back of my head, you know, this is a Venom game, you know, and while, you know, Dwight is super, like, he might be a...
Speaker: a much bigger comic book nerd than I am.
Speaker: And so like, he was like, from the get go, we're going to have all the, you know, like a bunch of different hosts, you know, and I'm going like, but people will, when they hear them, they're going to want Eddie Brock, you know, type of thing.
Speaker: So I knew that, that trying to balance that out and make sure that people are like, so this is, this is a venom.
Speaker: This is Eddie.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That that's where, you know, getting, getting him,
Speaker: nice and large at the bottom between the flippers was kind of like a no-brainer.
Speaker: That's kind of a decision where I'm like, I don't know where else I could have gotten away with that.
Speaker: Especially when, because the game has a lot of web slinging and combos and things like that, a lot of those shot paths up top represented locations, not characters.
Speaker: Like in a lot of games, it'll be a character.
Speaker: In this case, it was locations.
Speaker: And trying to crack the code of how to balance all these things and make it overall still a visual, interesting, a way to break up space in areas, but still communicate information.
Speaker: It's always a challenge.
Speaker: And I try to be very analytical and think it out and start where in areas that I understand and I don't know.
Speaker: And a lot of that was,
Speaker: Honestly, I think all comes back to working on Ghostbusters with Greg.
Speaker: I'd ask Greg, I'm like, okay.
Speaker: I said, so when I worked with J-Pop there, I said the one thing was when it came to play fields, he'd always make sure that I just had absolutely no way of knowing where I was going because he would constantly change everything.
Speaker: And, and, you know, he goes, okay.
Speaker: He's like, yeah, your J-pop play fields are terrible.
Speaker: I'm like, oh, thanks.
Speaker: That makes me feel good.
Speaker: Why'd you hire me?
Speaker: But no, he actually gave me, he gave me a lot of really great advice early on.
Speaker: And it really was, you know, the simplicity and there's more to it, but the simplicity of, of searching for the anchors that you understand, fleshing those out, looking what's left.
Speaker: And then starting to prioritize.
Speaker: And so it's a very analytical approach.
Speaker: And it served me well.
Speaker: And I chalk it up to Greg's influence on me.
Speaker: Well, and it's done great.
Speaker: Because I don't see any of your art packages and go, you know, those are terrible.
Speaker: They all, like I said, I feel like they all set a higher standard for what we're starting to see in artwork, pinball in general.
Speaker: So you said you're a big comic book nerd.
Speaker: Did you have to do much research for Venom or did you already know Venom?
Speaker: Did you know that guy?
Speaker: I grew up before Todd McFarlane started.
Speaker: I was reading before Todd McFarlane started his run on Amazing Spider-Man.
Speaker: I read all through that run.
Speaker: That was me literally getting comic books out.
Speaker: begging my parents for a couple bucks so I could get those.
Speaker: And so I read those in real time.
Speaker: I read the original Venom when they did the Venom miniseries.
Speaker: Mark Bagley did the art, stuff like that.
Speaker: I read all that stuff.
Speaker: I haven't kept up as succinctly as Dwight has.
Speaker: So I still read comics, but I
Speaker: Don't have the time.
Speaker: So I have such a backlog.
Speaker: I'm not joking when I say this.
Speaker: I may have years of backlog of comics.
Speaker: I actually have and have not gotten through.
Speaker: Now, some of those, some of the stuff that this is sort of pulled from, I had read, which is good.
Speaker: Not all of it.
Speaker: So I did actually go back through and sort of catch up on a few aspects.
Speaker: King and Black, you know, some of that stuff.
Speaker: I had not finished.
Speaker: I had, you know, I have the I had the books, but I didn't necessarily finish all of it.
Speaker: And so it was kind of weird for me to actually go in and like have an understanding.
Speaker: But then a few holes and I'm going, oh, wait a minute.
Speaker: What?
Speaker: But I got myself up to speed pretty quick.
Speaker: And obviously, you know, it's one of those things where at the end of the day, I hope people do understand that, you know, anyone who worked on this project absolutely loves all the characters.
Speaker: you know, you don't, you don't, it's stern.
Speaker: It's, it's really nice that they don't force people on things and go, well, this, your job is this.
Speaker: And here's a project you have to do this.
Speaker: Like they really do cultivate the creativity.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Which is, which is fantastic.
Speaker: And it's amazing in that regard.
Speaker: And that's part of the reason why I have continued to work with them as long as I have.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, and we do want to talk about that, but we'll tease it just a little bit longer.
Speaker: One of the questions I also had to was like you did with, with Avengers, you had to do the same back glasses for the premium and the Ellie on denim.
Speaker: Was that just a time constraint or was that.
Speaker: It was absolutely, it was absolutely a time constraint.
Speaker: And, and that was one, I don't know if you know this or not, but on Avengers, it was actually approved with just one back glass.
Speaker: Oh, really?
Speaker: And I got done and I said, listen, I think I had like, I don't know, three or four weeks or something.
Speaker: And I said, listen, you know, I think there's still aftermarket stuff to do, but I'm like, listen, just let me try to come up with something else.
Speaker: And again, both of those backlashes on Avengers, it's not like I, you know, tried to create the Sistine Chapel.
Speaker: Like I knew my limitations to a point, but at the same time,
Speaker: I had to come up with something else.
Speaker: I said, I'm going to get, I'm like, my goal from day one, and this goes back to, you know, even working with J-pop was, you know, I look at the, you know, like the, this world and back then prices weren't, you know, even what they are now.
Speaker: And I go, these are, these are high end pieces of art to me.
Speaker: They always have been.
Speaker: And I, you know, as a kid, I loved the artistry of it.
Speaker: I looked at these, you know, machines and was just like, this is just so, you know, it's such an incredible thing to be able to do that when I got involved, I said, I want to show that you can do more with it if I can.
Speaker: You know, meandering, I'm not, I shouldn't, I shouldn't probably
Speaker: beat a dead horse but me meandering and you know before i worked with stern uh you know was it was a different beast when i started uh working with stern it was okay we've got absolute finite schedules and by the way they aren't conducive to be able to do um this type of thing because again this is a business where you have you know time constraints and so
Speaker: I really honed in and developed my approach and sort of my way of being able to hit the marks I can.
Speaker: And one of those ways is never taking a day off.
Speaker: So there's that.
Speaker: Anyway, that's not a good one, by the way.
Speaker: I'm learning as I get older.
Speaker: That's not a good one.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, one of your things that you first pointed out to me when Foo Fighters come out was Gary was under the flipper as a little alien that said, ship it.
Speaker: Is there any other Easter eggs you may have put into Venom or to Foo Fighters that you're?
Speaker: You know, I actually don't set out to do Easter eggs because I feel like unless it serves a purpose,
Speaker: And in the case of Gary or Garelyan, as I like to call him, in that case, I was literally just trying to make a joke to make Greg laugh.
Speaker: And then Jack and then Tanya and then everyone else.
Speaker: And then and then it just sort of became one of those things where I'm like, OK, it'll stick in there.
Speaker: So are there I mean, they're always there always are.
Speaker: I don't I don't know.
Speaker: that many are as quite, quite as overt as that in that regard, but, but yeah, again, time constraints, you, you focus, you focus on what you can.
Speaker: I don't, I mean, I put a lot of stuff into, into these.
Speaker: I, again, I try to have intent.
Speaker: Sometimes the intent is, is, is funny.
Speaker: I prefer funny because at the end of the day, I would like people,
Speaker: To just look at these things and without even playing them, just be happy.
Speaker: Just feel happiness, you know, smile and be like, this is cool.
Speaker: So that's a starting point.
Speaker: So, yeah, when I can get something in there, I like to.
Speaker: I remember on Godzilla actually just getting Manila on the playfield.
Speaker: That wasn't even in the cards, I don't think, at the time.
Speaker: And I just kept talking with Keith and I'm like, oh, we've got to get this guy in there.
Speaker: Like, like, and I can't remember.
Speaker: And he, I don't think he was against it.
Speaker: It was just that there wasn't like, he just wasn't part of it at that time.
Speaker: But man, did he become part of it?
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: With the whole ball drain sequence.
Speaker: Oh my goodness.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Keith, you know, Keith, I got to give him credit.
Speaker: Like, and I watch all Godzilla and I, and I was a Godzilla fan and I've watched him over the years many times, but he had to scour through so much.
Speaker: Over and over again.
Speaker: And he came up with so many good clips throughout that game.
Speaker: And a lot of stuff that didn't even make it in the game and stuff like that.
Speaker: I've got to give him credit.
Speaker: He pours himself into that.
Speaker: I mean, for what I do, I pour myself into it.
Speaker: But he has to do so much more, in my opinion.
Speaker: Not that all designers don't do that.
Speaker: I'm not trying to.
Speaker: But in that case, that was a big undertaking for that game, in my opinion.
Speaker: Being able to really nail the vibe and pull the right clips and just sort of get that tone right.
Speaker: I think that's why people like that game.
Speaker: A lot of it is the personality based on sort of how he curated that stuff.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: So, well, we should stop teasing everyone.
Speaker: I guess, you know, typically we don't ask you, you know, are you doing another game for Stern because you're contracted out?
Speaker: But an announcement just came out today.
Speaker: Why don't you tell us what was that announcement?
Speaker: Oh, well, so apparently I just found out, I guess I'm a Stern employee now.
Speaker: I didn't think you just found out.
Speaker: You just like, oh, told me.
Speaker: No, that's not true.
Speaker: That's not true.
Speaker: It's been in the works for a little while.
Speaker: I had actually been asked, you know, here and there.
Speaker: I think I was, I always told everyone like, like George and Greg, I'm like, ah, you guys couldn't get the same work out of me if I worked, you know, if I was an employee, which is kind of hard to get.
Speaker: That's what, that's what you were trying to do.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Well, no, well, no, I wasn't actually, I was being dead serious because I liked the freedom to be able to walk away.
Speaker: I liked being able to pick and choose other projects.
Speaker: But what happened was over time, I started to actually like these projects better than other projects.
Speaker: And I started turning away other projects to work on more projects like this.
Speaker: And it had nothing to do with...
Speaker: you know, with, you know, money or time or anything like that.
Speaker: It had everything to do with the people and the projects.
Speaker: Like, I have made a lot of really good friends at Stern over the years, and I have so much respect for everyone that I've worked with.
Speaker: At one point,
Speaker: It kind of hit me and I go, well, I'd be kind of stupid not to take an opportunity to work with these people.
Speaker: But then the real kicker came when somebody said the word paid vacation.
Speaker: That's when you realize like, yeah, I work myself way too hard to be nice to have a paid vacation.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And then somebody said, then they said benefits.
Speaker: And I go, what?
Speaker: Those still exist.
Speaker: No, listen, the person to think at the end of the day, and there's really two that I sort of put in tandem.
Speaker: Actually, there's a lot of them, but directly, it's Greg for basically giving me enough rope to prove that I won't hang myself.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: over these projects over the years and, you know, giving me these opportunities, you know, regardless of what a licensor says, art directors can decide, you know, if that's going to work or not.
Speaker: And he was, he always had faith in me and he's always been super supportive and he's always looked out for me.
Speaker: And along with that goes George Gomez, same thing.
Speaker: Both of those guys have actually made me at times feel almost like I'm good at what I do, which I question.
Speaker: But yeah, but then there's a lot of other people.
Speaker: I mean, obviously, Jody Dankberg has gotten the greatest licenses.
Speaker: You can't argue with that.
Speaker: Yeah, they're obnoxious.
Speaker: Yeah, and he continues to.
Speaker: He's a good friend of mine.
Speaker: There's times where he'll be like, hey, I'm thinking about this, this, or this.
Speaker: Many of those interest you.
Speaker: you know, or whatever, just like off the cuff, you know, like occasionally.
Speaker: And, and I'm always like, you know, it's, it's, it's one of those things where it's like, first off, I have to say this, I'm not the guy for everything.
Speaker: So don't worry people who don't like me.
Speaker: I won't do your favorite game.
Speaker: For instance, I would not do a back to the future.
Speaker: And it's not that I don't love the,
Speaker: you know, that era and, and, and, and those, those movies, I'm just totally against doing any game based on a movie that,
Speaker: that involves two thirds of the runtime with incest jokes.
Speaker: Anyway, no, that's not, I'm sorry, that's not true.
Speaker: That's not entirely true.
Speaker: No, I'm just not the right guy for it because I know a better guy for it.
Speaker: And I know someone that would be better at it.
Speaker: And so whatever.
Speaker: But again, I don't know if that game ever gets made.
Speaker: I don't know if it does, if it's Stern.
Speaker: I've heard all kinds of wonderful rumors
Speaker: Those are plenty in this hobby or in this industry.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: By the way, when I make that, make that joke, guys, it's, it's Stern does not have back to the future.
Speaker: I can tell you, trust me, trust me on that one.
Speaker: But,
Speaker: But anyway, I can make other jokes.
Speaker: You're going to see yourself on NAP Arcade in a couple days, and it's going to be like, Bob Bighetti teases Back to the Future.
Speaker: It must be true.
Speaker: Speaking of which, I saw that Kaneda guy posted something about Keith Elwin having two games next year.
Speaker: And I just want to say, all I've got to say to that is only two, Chris?
Speaker: Anyway.
Speaker: Oh, no, that's, I'm totally, that's for Map Arcade.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: I'm just trying to cause trouble.
Speaker: No, no, no.
Speaker: Believe me, I'm not a talker.
Speaker: But, no, at the end of the day, yeah, I'm really excited and I'm really, I'm honored to be a part of the legacy at Stern.
Speaker: I mean, you know, what Gary's built and maintained over the years is, yeah,
Speaker: You know, not a lot of people will get to say they worked at Stern.
Speaker: And, you know, it's a cool thing.
Speaker: I'm not one that, you know, I don't really care about labels.
Speaker: I don't really care too much about, you know, they ask me, like, what do you want to be called?
Speaker: Like, what's your position or something?
Speaker: Somebody asked me that.
Speaker: And I said, employee, like, I don't, I don't care.
Speaker: Like, you know, like, I don't, I don't need a label, you know, like that doesn't prove my, hopefully my work speaks for itself.
Speaker: And no matter what I do, people will just go, he's the guy who did that art.
Speaker: They don't go, oh, he's,
Speaker: the junior I don't know what the hell I don't even know what my what I'm actually called but that's okay it doesn't matter but yeah no I'm very thankful very excited and hopefully I will continue to keep up the level of quality and hopefully wherever I can I'm going to help
Speaker: pass along things I've learned to other artists at Stern and hopefully help them make their lives easier too if I can.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: I know that like with Jack Danger his thing is meme master or something like that.
Speaker: You should just be the man who makes the chimichangas.
Speaker: That's what you do on your business card.
Speaker: Yeah, that's not bad, actually.
Speaker: That's not bad.
Speaker: I'm okay with that.
Speaker: I'm okay with that.
Speaker: I actually would, I would be fine with any title that, you know, I'd be fine with just about anything, really.
Speaker: You know, president.
Speaker: No, anyway.
Speaker: I kid, I kid.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: But yeah, no, I, I, uh, yeah, that, that I think that, uh, that's legit now.
Speaker: Um, and it's been a long time coming and, uh, for years I said, you don't want to hire me.
Speaker: Uh, and then over time I just, uh, you know, I just really fell in love with everything.
Speaker: So I kinda, yeah, as long as people will continue to buy stuff and they don't hate me, hopefully I'll continue to get to do it.
Speaker: Sounds good.
Speaker: Well,
Speaker: I've taken up plenty of your time and I know you said you've been up since like four o'clock this morning.
Speaker: So I got weird.
Speaker: I grew up, I used to, I grew up, uh, my parents or my, my dad were construction and I, I would go out with him, uh, especially in the summers and on weekends.
Speaker: And so I tend to wake up early, uh, usually not 4am, but yeah,
Speaker: But when I do wake up early and I go, oh, I'm only going to maybe get another hour of sleep, I try to just get moving.
Speaker: Because if I don't, I'm just going to feel like just drain the rest of the day and then my brain doesn't work well.
Speaker: I mean, you could argue it doesn't anyway.
Speaker: So there's that.
Speaker: But listen, before we go, I have to ask, because it's been a long time since we talked.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Any good...
Speaker: video games you've played in the past year what's your favorite my favorite right now well legend of zelda tears of the kingdom is amazing it is and the ninja turtles that new one that uh yeah shredder's revenge if you haven't tried that one oh man that one is amazing as well you know they actually that company uh approached me about doing the key art for it really but i was i was working on pinball and i couldn't do it
Speaker: But then they came back and they had me do like a limited edition artwork for the soundtrack, the actual physical record soundtrack.
Speaker: I actually have that.
Speaker: I got one of those discs and the art looks amazing.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: I'm a Ninja Turtles fan too, so I was pretty stoked when you did the Ninja Turtles artwork.
Speaker: Oh no, those guys, when they reached out and we had Zoom calls and stuff like that, I'm like, oh, there's no way I'm going to have time.
Speaker: And I felt really bad.
Speaker: And I like a legitimately like I felt bad.
Speaker: But I'm like, there's no way because, you know, the project I was working on at the time for Stern, I'm like, I can't cut corners.
Speaker: I'm like, and I would not be able to, you know, do less than what I think needed to be done.
Speaker: And so like it was it was quite a conundrum, but it was it was kind of an eye opening experience, too, for me, because I'm like, oh, this is.
Speaker: This is interesting because I'm choosing Stern over this, which has kind of said something to me, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It showed where, number one, my loyalties were, but also why was I doing that?
Speaker: And so that sort of started some thought processes.
Speaker: But you're leaving out one of the best games I've played this year.
Speaker: Okay, what is it?
Speaker: Resident Evil 4 remake, believe it or not.
Speaker: Oh my goodness.
Speaker: I don't know why.
Speaker: I like Resident Evil games.
Speaker: But the remake, those remakes that Capcom has been doing are good.
Speaker: I never liked the original 3, so the 3 remake was eh.
Speaker: But 2 and 4 have been fantastic.
Speaker: And you had actually recommended Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy to me, and that game was amazing too.
Speaker: Isn't that surprising?
Speaker: I never would have thought, and it's not that I thought it wouldn't be good, but I kind of assume when it comes to video games, because when it comes to video games and comic books, there's been a decline over the years in quality on some of those things.
Speaker: And you go, well, I don't know.
Speaker: But but that I'm thinking of that Avengers game that came out.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, it looked great, but it just wasn't a lot of fun.
Speaker: But yeah, no, that one was fun.
Speaker: I was an early adopter of the Steam Deck.
Speaker: Same here?
Speaker: Yeah, big fan.
Speaker: I actually pulled the trigger on the Asus ROG Ally.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: If you like the Steam Deck and you can handle yourself in Windows, you're going to like it more than the Steam Deck.
Speaker: Really?
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Performance-wise and the fact that you can actually play a lot of the
Speaker: the PC games that you can't on, on the steam deck.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's sort of a, I'm not saying I would actually, I'd probably wait for the steam deck too.
Speaker: If you, if you are inclined because the steam deck OS is so great, but anyway, so, so that's, that's literally the only way I get to play anything anymore.
Speaker: So like, I think, I think I played through a hi-fi rush.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I couldn't start Tears of the Kingdom until I was done with Venom.
Speaker: But I snuck in an hour or two in the late evenings here and there.
Speaker: And I got to get back to it, actually, because I got... Yeah, whatever.
Speaker: The game is such a masterpiece.
Speaker: Street Fighter VI.
Speaker: Obviously, I'm a Street Fighter guy, so I love that as well.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: I can't get into fighting games.
Speaker: I enjoy them, but I always get my butt handed to me.
Speaker: So it's like I can't button mash fast enough, I guess, or do all the combos.
Speaker: I get it.
Speaker: No, I totally get it.
Speaker: The older I get, and I'm 20 plus 26.
Speaker: And the older I get...
Speaker: you know, like, like, you know, even playing like a call of duty or something like that.
Speaker: Like my tactics are different.
Speaker: I used to be head on run in there, take everybody out one, you know, boom, boom, boom.
Speaker: And now I snipe anyway, you know, I get you.
Speaker: I get you.
Speaker: And I have to, I have to keep my distance, but, but no, I, I only asked because last time we talked, I know you get, you were a big gamer as well.
Speaker: And, and, uh,
Speaker: Obviously, there's been some good stuff.
Speaker: Hopefully, there'll be even better stuff.
Speaker: I'm looking forward to Alan Wake 2.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And Starfield has me interested.
Speaker: I'm hoping that it turns out okay.
Speaker: And obviously, Spider-Man 2 for PlayStation.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Those are the three games that I'm focused on for the rest of the year, in theory.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, I know one game that you talked about was Tony Hawk's Pro Skater when you came on.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: Oh, man.
Speaker: If we could get it, if you should put in a good word down there at Stern to get a pro pro skater.
Speaker: I've talked about this and I've talked about it endlessly.
Speaker: Don't get me started.
Speaker: No, I've talked about it because I think I think it's so ripe for it.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: I you know, what's funny is, well, I don't I don't want to say that because I don't want to pick favorites.
Speaker: I love all the designers there, but I can think of two designers because of two different reasons, by the way, that, that could do that game justice, I think.
Speaker: Um, but, but whatever, all of them could don't get me wrong, but, but I think two of them, I know for a fact are totally into it.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So there's that, but, but yeah, no, I think, I think that would be great.
Speaker: I've said this before.
Speaker: Um, you know, we, we've,
Speaker: we kind of live in a world now where, where it's media overload, overload, like where we're like, you know, literally we, we all carry around a personal device.
Speaker: That's just media consumption.
Speaker: I mean, like, even though we're using it for communication, it's really media communication at the same time.
Speaker: And, uh, and so I go, oh man, you know, like we're, we're, you know, we've got the comic books are popular, which by the way, when I was in high school and when I read comics, uh,
Speaker: People weren't going, oh, you're awesome because you read comics.
Speaker: They were saying the opposite.
Speaker: So the fact that, like, I remember going to my high school, I think it was like my 15 or 20 year high school reunion.
Speaker: Obviously, I don't remember that well.
Speaker: So I'm lying, apparently.
Speaker: But no, it was one of those.
Speaker: It was one of those.
Speaker: And there was this one person, and I'm not going to even give gender on it because I don't want them to hear this and get their feelings hurt.
Speaker: By the way, no one's going to hear this that I went to high school with.
Speaker: But I'm trying to be nice.
Speaker: Except for Patterson, right?
Speaker: No, no.
Speaker: Yeah, it was Jeff Patterson.
Speaker: No, no.
Speaker: And they were all talking about the latest Marvel movie at that time.
Speaker: And I'm like, oh, that's funny.
Speaker: I'm like, that's awesome that you like that.
Speaker: Because I remember that at one time, and I had, I think it was a Spider-Man shirt on or something.
Speaker: And you guys were like making fun of me and calling me a little kid and all this stuff like that.
Speaker: And they got angry like, well, but that was then.
Speaker: And I'm like, well, I said, I'm not trying to make a big deal out of it.
Speaker: I'm just saying, like, isn't it funny how things have changed?
Speaker: And now like you guys are like, this is cool.
Speaker: I'm like, it was cool back then too.
Speaker: Like you would have loved it and probably enjoyed the movie more now had you actually been a nerd.
Speaker: But whatever.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: Anyway, that's not where I was going with this.
Speaker: It's just an anecdote.
Speaker: But no, and it's not a good one.
Speaker: There's no point to it.
Speaker: But I think the next place to farm, because we got the comic books, we got television shows, we got movies.
Speaker: And how many classic movies are made in the last decade?
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Not very many.
Speaker: Yeah, not very many.
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: I mean, who knows?
Speaker: We'll see.
Speaker: We'll find out in 20 years.
Speaker: But video games, that's where you go.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: I, I, I've said before the one thing I would love to do is, is mine like Sega or something like that.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Like do like a, you know, like you could, there's so many properties, you know, there's got a, what's Sega doing?
Speaker: They don't do much.
Speaker: Anyway, I, space here or anything.
Speaker: No, no, I'd be down for anything, but, but yeah, so that, that's my whole thing.
Speaker: I'm like, I think eventually, I,
Speaker: we'll get there.
Speaker: I mean, we're kind of getting there now, aren't we?
Speaker: Like, is there any, I'm trying to think what was, are there any video game pinball machines at this time?
Speaker: Obviously there's been street fighter.
Speaker: There's been super Mario, stuff like that.
Speaker: What goes for tycoon?
Speaker: If you really want to.
Speaker: Oh, that's true.
Speaker: That's good.
Speaker: That's a good point.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That actually, that's what ruined it for us.
Speaker: I want big buck hunter as well.
Speaker: That's a good point.
Speaker: Rollercoaster tycoon.
Speaker: Who would have thought?
Speaker: What about the, isn't there that like one, there's like a, you drive a semi truck in the snow.
Speaker: What's that one called?
Speaker: That'd make a great pinball game.
Speaker: You just make goat simulator, the pinball game.
Speaker: Actually, I'd be okay with that.
Speaker: Lots of air balls.
Speaker: Anyway.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I gotta be honest.
Speaker: Have you played goat simulator three, the latest one?
Speaker: I haven't.
Speaker: Is it?
Speaker: They actually made it a game now.
Speaker: Like, like before, you know, it's nonsense.
Speaker: Now it's nonsense with purpose.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I gotta be honest.
Speaker: It's actually pretty enjoyable to meander around.
Speaker: Kind of like, uh, what's that deer simulator or whatever, but he can walk on two legs with a gun and he, yeah, it's better.
Speaker: It's better.
Speaker: It's more refined than that in regards to what can be done, but it's, you're right.
Speaker: You're, you're in the same wheelhouse there.
Speaker: It's very similar.
Speaker: Visually, though, I don't know what I don't know what you could do with a game like that.
Speaker: But it's interesting.
Speaker: Anyway, OK, that's it.
Speaker: We'll have more video game conversations off camera so we don't annoy people.
Speaker: OK, well, are you going to Expo this year?
Speaker: Yes, I think it's the the only show I think I actually know.
Speaker: I take that back.
Speaker: I'm supposed to go to.
Speaker: the tilt amusement thing in a couple of weeks here.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Or what is it?
Speaker: The tilt gate at the night.
Speaker: I can't think of what it's called.
Speaker: The tailgate party.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think I'm going with, with Tanya and Jack.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: So the whole team of three of us will be there.
Speaker: That's a, obviously there's many that won't be because the whole team would be all those people I talked about before that you have to get on your podcast.
Speaker: And we'll talk about that.
Speaker: Sounds great.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Other than that, no, I'm going to expo.
Speaker: That's the only thing that's on the docket.
Speaker: And unless they tell me, I was supposed to go to Comic-Con, by the way, San Diego Comic-Con for the thing, but I'm not a lot of fun.
Speaker: I'm not fun.
Speaker: And I don't, I don't like to travel.
Speaker: You can't drink Gary under the table, huh?
Speaker: No, I'm not fun like that at all.
Speaker: I wish I was.
Speaker: And I wish that I have lots of issues, especially in planes.
Speaker: My last few flights were so traumatic that I just, it's really hard.
Speaker: So I'll do whatever I can to get out of flying whenever I can.
Speaker: It's very unhealthy.
Speaker: You shouldn't be that way, but not a lot you can do.
Speaker: Anyway, and again, I'm just not fun because I look at it, you know, if it would have been like, oh, you get to do a Comic-Con panel?
Speaker: Like, you're legit.
Speaker: Like, that's what my friends would say, like, who are artists.
Speaker: And I would say, but I'd have to fly and I don't want to fly.
Speaker: So stupid.
Speaker: Anyway, that's a whole other podcast.
Speaker: Well, we appreciate you coming on.
Speaker: If someone wants to get a hold of you, what's the best way to get a hold of you?
Speaker: If you even want someone bothering you.
Speaker: I know Keith's like, no.
Speaker: Oh, well, so you can reach me via Keith Elwin.
Speaker: That seals it.
Speaker: No, I think I still have zombie eddie.com and I've got a contact form on there or whatever.
Speaker: Or you can just email, you know, whatever.
Speaker: I think I've got a stern email now.
Speaker: But it's not Zombie Yeti.
Speaker: It's Jeremy Packer.
Speaker: Which is not as cool sounding.
Speaker: But that's okay.
Speaker: But that's okay.
Speaker: It is funny though.
Speaker: Your name is so synonymous.
Speaker: When you do say Jeremy Packer.
Speaker: People are like who's that?
Speaker: It's not very cool.
Speaker: And then as you can see.
Speaker: I got all my hair and beard trimmed.
Speaker: to look like an adult.
Speaker: So I got to tell you this one, I swear, and you can stop recording because we'll bore people with that.
Speaker: But I got to tell you this one.
Speaker: So I went, and again, I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings here who may have cut my hair, but I went to get a haircut.
Speaker: And it's a friend of the family who has this business and she's cut my hair a billion times.
Speaker: And for some reason, I don't know what was miscommunicated, but I walked out of there and I looked like Steve Perry from like 1985 or something.
Speaker: And I go, what happened?
Speaker: I don't understand what happened.
Speaker: And like, listen, I don't mind looking goofy because I am by default.
Speaker: But I just really, and I'm like, oh, I can't do this.
Speaker: And so the next day I went to a barber and I said, hey, make me look like I live in the now.
Speaker: And so he cut all my hair off.
Speaker: Anyway, it'll grow out.
Speaker: Don't worry, it'll grow out.
Speaker: I will not show you photos either of what it looked like before, but it was not a good look for me.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's impressive you took photos.
Speaker: It's one of those ones that you usually throw away and you pretend it never happened.
Speaker: Oh no, I had to show my wife before I got home.
Speaker: I'm like, oh, prepare yourself.
Speaker: That's awesome.
Speaker: Well, if you want to get a hold of us, we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com.
Speaker: We're on all the socials, Twitter, YouTube, Facebook.
Speaker: I guess it's not Twitter anymore.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: X. It's all at loser kid pinball.
Speaker: Check out our merch on silver ball swag.com slash loser kid.
Speaker: I'm wearing the George Fisher shirt.
Speaker: Don't panic flip.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: It's very awesome.
Speaker: You should go get yourself one as well.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Well, we thank you, Jeremy, for coming on and it's always great to have you on.
Speaker: And, uh, I guess we'll see everyone in two weeks.
