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Homeschooling & Entrepreneurship with Kathryn & Michelle
80 Plays2 months ago
Michelle, a lover of Jesus, gardening, good books, and strong coffee is mother to 11 whom she homeschooled for a total of 36 years!!! She is joined by her youngest, Kathryn, who is a flower farmer and the marketer for her family's ranch, Mercy Meadows Ranch. Today they share their homeschool journey. Michelle shares so much practical wisdom from generational curses to the importance of a holistic education, you might want to take notes. And Kathryn will undoubtedly ignite a fire within you as she shares how homeschooling helped foster an entrepreneurial spirit within herself.
Check out Mercy Meadows Ranch and have farm fresh meat delivered to your door.
Intro Music: Good Company
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Transcript
Introduction to Homeschooling Podcast
00:00:08
Speaker
Are you considering homeschooling but don't feel qualified or don't know where to start? Are you a homeschooler and feeling lost or just need some encouragement? This podcast is for you. My hope is that through everyday homeschooler stories, you will be encouraged, inspired and empowered to and in your homeschooling.
00:00:35
Speaker
I want to thank my friends and fellow homeschoolers, Cole and Lindsay Novak of Good Company, for allowing me to use their song to be here now.
Meet Michelle and Catherine: Homeschooling Pioneers
00:00:45
Speaker
You can follow them on Instagram at music.goodcompany, their podcasts,
00:00:58
Speaker
Michelle, a lover of Jesus, gardening, good books, and strong coffee, is a mother to 11 children whom she homeschooled for a total of 36 years. Yes, I said 36 years. She is joined by her youngest child, Catherine, who is a flower farmer and the marketer for her family's ranch, Mercy Meadows Ranch.
00:01:21
Speaker
Today they share their homeschool journey and Michelle shares so much practical wisdom from generational curses to the importance of a holistic education that you might want to take notes. Catherine will undoubtedly ignite a fire within you as she shares how homeschooling helped foster an entrepreneurial spirit within herself. Let's get to it. Hi, welcome Catherine and Michelle. So glad to be here.
00:01:47
Speaker
I'm so grateful for that y
Homeschooling and Farm Life: A Unique Blend
00:01:49
Speaker
'all are here. We connected through Instagram, and we can share more about how that we connected um in a little bit. But I would love, Michelle, for you to introduce yourself. Michelle, your mom. i Yes, I am the mom. um ae I'm 67 years old this month. I started homeschooling in 1985, so that was probably before most of these people been born. um I have 11 children. My oldest is 43, and my youngest, Catherine, here is 21.
00:02:17
Speaker
Yep. So the youngest of the family. The youngest of the family, the last one home, it's extremely quiet. And most people who have a household never think this is going to happen, but it does. It gets pretty quiet. She makes, keeps it noisy, but you know, it's only one noisy person with a noisy parent. Yes. So what do you guys do? What are you doing these days?
00:02:38
Speaker
Well, these days we have a cattle ranch um in Texas, south central Texas. We raise a breed called British White. ah They're super gentle. they're low birthrer They're low birth weight cattle, easy birthers.
00:02:54
Speaker
do really well on grass and so we bought them because we had Jersey milk cows and we had a lot of company and people with little kids and i we needed a beef cow that were gentle to be around so we raise those now and we have a beef a business where we sell online Mercy Meadows Ranch And Catherine does all of the advertising, marketing, processing, and she does it all. She's like the all around child that it was at the end of 11 where her parents really maybe kind of got it together by then. So.
00:03:32
Speaker
And she also has a flower farm. Yeah. Yeah. So um definitely, you know, being homeschooled, my mom really prioritized, you know, farm life and getting outside and doing all sorts of different things coming alongside us. And I think that's really important when you you know want to do new things in the world and you want to you know, get your kids out there, but coming alongside them and trying new things together, super important. So the farm life and raising cattle, you know, that's where we are now. um But that started out with just testing out different animals and doing it together as something
Learning from Failure and Farm Experiences
00:04:03
Speaker
that's fun. But then it's like you grow up and then you've those things that were fun and enjoyable and you learned over, you know, 10 years of time
00:04:10
Speaker
now you can come in you know and make it a business. Your kids can launch off of that. My one brother thought about being a veterinarian and he would have never thought about that if mom didn't just branch out as a homeschool mom and be like, okay, we're going to test, try some animals here, you know see how that goes. um So I definitely think that was super influential, you know right being raised and being homeschooled um and her being a really big part of that. So yeah. Oh, wow. I'm feeling really good about myself.
00:04:37
Speaker
but Oh, I must have done something right. Yeah. Yeah. I would say all of our kids, when we moved from a subdivision home out into the country. You know, we probably weren't as successful when the veterinarian said thanks for his new pickup truck, but we learned a lot and the kids learned to problem solve. and They learned to get up, get their chores done.
00:05:02
Speaker
if they weren't responsible animals didn't live so that was a lot of pressure on them in a good way because when they get out into the real world nobody's going to hold their hand that if you think they are you're sadly remiss and that you can try things and sometimes they turn out well and sometimes that wasn't successful we bought sheep and thought we would spin wool we bought a spinning wheel that lasted about two months ah we used the sheep to build and um bats for quilts of which we still have but spinning wool was not a good idea for our family so we've tried everything but yes right now it's like i really encourage parents to
00:05:41
Speaker
Let your kids try things. ah yeah Let them fail. you know in In failing, we learn so much about ourselves. it's you know Success is easy. Failure is hard to get through, but it's the best part for me. I think farming and ranching is definitely a great way to learn how to fail. Oh, yeah. be Yeah, lots of failure. I have just a little box garden. and i failed miserably at it. And it was, and I, my husband was like, it's okay. If you're not good at this, it's okay. You're good at other things. And so that's right. That's right. And we we did a lot of things because we want to, we didn't know what the future would hold. That was, you know, 40 years ago, we thought the future was crazy. And it's like, you know, I don't know what kind of world you're going to live in. I want you to be able to know that no matter what gets thrown at you, you can problem solve your way out of it.
00:06:30
Speaker
you know you can you can try to be resourceful use what you have be creative um and any business venture as long as it's not unbiblical was acceptable you know go ahead and try you know kids thought they could sell muffins at your door bought made a brochure and everything my husband and i they never sold one muffin we did all the statistics on how much they would have to sell and what the products would cost you know we have the thing framed on my husband's walls our first venture out of Yeah, resourceful children.
Michelle's Transition to Homeschooling
00:07:01
Speaker
That's amazing. I love that. the Michelle, what is your school experience? What did you bring you homeschooled or Oh, no, no, no, I'm actually I went to public school. I did really well in school because I'm really good test taker. But
00:07:16
Speaker
and got married at 18, took a few college courses, and then started having children after six years of marriage. I was told I wouldn't be able to have any. So every time I got pregnant, I was pretty excited. Praise God. um And we had a Bible study for young married moms, and they had someone come and talk about like Christian school, public school, and then homeschool for your children. And I thought, gosh, I'd never even heard of the word homeschool.
00:07:43
Speaker
So I started studying up on it and I went to my husband and I said, you know, I like to try this, but it seems kind of scary. In the meantime, we moved to Michigan where it was illegal. And so we thought, well, we'll try for when she's four years old, because legally she has to go to school at five. So if I start at four, then I have a one year to see if I can make it work. and We cried a lot. I made her raise her hand to call me teacher. you know There was nobody I could talk to because it was illegal, so you can't ask anybody anything. You can't go like, how are you doing it? Because I could go to jail.
00:08:18
Speaker
And in the meantime, you could not get answer keys to anyone's curriculum. You could only buy the books, but you couldn't get, well, kindergarten, how much answer key do you need? But the whole thought was that was against anything you could do. So there was one company, Christian Liberty Academy, which was out of Chicago, they would send you the books, you would correct the papers, but then you would have to send your papers to them and then they would give you a grade.
00:08:44
Speaker
Okay. And so that was our beginning of homeschooling. It's a little, and you know, and it was like, raise your hand, call your teacher, have a desk. I mean, I was like, so adamant that had to look right. And yeah, you're trying to like replicate school at home, basically. Right. Because I didn't know anything else. Yeah, when the end, you know, ended up going out of the basement with the fantastic looking schoolroom up to the kitchen table because I had laundry to do and I had lunch to make and I had dishes to do and you sit there while I you know juggle all my different balls of actually being a mom who just happens to be edging educating her children at home and I think that's a whole different perspective and I i think today there
00:09:28
Speaker
I see a lot of push for academics and I believe they need to be well educated, but I think you can't hold a cut a child back if if you allow them to learn. I just think there's just no way you're gonna you're going to stop them. yeah They just have so much there. And if you just guide it, the world is theirs.
00:09:49
Speaker
Yes. So you, you started in Michigan. When at one point did y'all move to Texas after that? We moved back, we moved back to Texas when Catherine was four. So her schooling was in Texas here, which was way more lax in um and regulation. By the time we left Michigan, it became one of the easiest states to homeschool in. There were no requirements. You could do whatever you want with whatever you want, how you ever wanted to, but the first three or four years were pretty tough. where they had so They had a radio program one day and and they were talking about home education and like there was people on there saying,
00:10:30
Speaker
I'd like to meet someone who does it." Then you're thinking, should I give her my name? Maybe she's like the police or something. They're going to come and get me. But we did. We had plans on how to escape the state if they came for us. I mean, i was pretty it was pretty crazy back then. My husband would be like, you call me and give me the code words. I'll know you're on the run. I mean, oh because people we knew in our community were in jail.
00:10:55
Speaker
for home educating. So it was like, okay, this is dead serious. They're not messing with us. They're really mean. They don't want you to teach your children. And that's how convicted we were about it. That's unreal to think about because I mean, definitely those of you who were home educating in the late 80s, early 90s were pioneers in and of itself. I mean, it was still such a new thing. I mean, it was an old thing. Yeah, it was our world but Like biblical. Yes. But it definitely became like a faux pas. It became like, oh you can't teach your children, like what degree do you have and what credentials? ah It's it's really shocking to even think about the fact that, you know, at one point we were there. And granted, now there are still states that have heavy regulations. But for the most part, you know, we do have the freedom to move to a state that would support our freedom to homeschool.
00:11:54
Speaker
um And so and when you got started out, so y'all decided, I mean, you heard about this when your oldest was young, a toddler.
Curriculum Choices and Creativity in Homeschooling
00:12:05
Speaker
Yeah, and so then you decided to carry it out with all of your children, but did you follow any other, any particular method and or were you just doing what was sent to you, what you could order?
00:12:18
Speaker
Well, originally it was the, you know, get the packet from the school and, you know, all the books would come in. The kids would get all excited. We open up the boxes. But when our oldest was in third grade, um you know, those books are really geared to repetitive work for public school or large school classrooms. And she said one day, Mom, why do I have to do this when I already know how?
00:12:42
Speaker
and I being the brilliant mother that I was said it's because they said so and she said who are the they which is you know a third graders already outsmarting her mother but that's okay and I said the people and she said I thought you and dad were in charge wow and i went oh boy we're in trouble i said you're right we are and then i thought i need to talk to my husband immediately because this child has got this figured out this is just busy work and she doesn't need busy work she needs to learn yeah so generally that's how we did it we ended up saying yes this is a book yes this is a curriculum we can use it but we need to not make our children do busy work for the sake of busy work
00:13:27
Speaker
so school became You we either or got a pass or a fail grade. If you failed, you had to repeat it until you figured out how to do it right. Then you moved on. If you got it right the first time through and you kept getting it right, it's like, okay, you're a whiz. The next one might not be. We had years where I called them character building years. That meant academics were not so hot that year, but the children had character issues they needed to work through. And so the next year was easier because they worked through all their character problems. yeah And one child would have an easy school year and the next child would have a difficult year. And I think that's because the one who was difficult
00:14:05
Speaker
I had to work extra hard on the basics like phonics and math drills. And so the one behind them watched so carefully. So when it was their turn, they looked brilliant because they had been hearing me repeat the same things over and over and over and over and over again. So all of a sudden they were the smart child and it's like, well, I don't know if they were actually smarter. They just probably paid attention more to not wanting to be considered the one that was having a hard time.
00:14:30
Speaker
But i I just think you know whatever curriculum you use, if you use it, you'll be successful. Jumping and changing all the time, it just causes confusion for everybody. ah and I think right now I think Kevin Swanson has a really good curriculum generations and it's really ah Christ focus for those who are believers and he really focuses on that rather than just give them academics and make them super smart and then they'll pass all the tests and boy won't they look brilliant in college. It's like and so we have a bunch of
00:15:06
Speaker
Robots. Know-it-alls who don't have a foundation. That's helpful. so At least they know all the rivers in Italy. Wow! guinea You can recite all the capitals in South America. that's right know like or These are the classics. I'm like, who determined this was a classic? I mean, the missionaries of old or or Josephus or someone like that. It's like, man, you got there's a lot there you can learn. You don't have to necessarily read everything that Shakespeare ever wrote to be considered. Oh, you're so smart. I'm like, no. His stories are pretty much the same kind every time. It's not a whole lot. Sorry, one Shakespeare, you've read them all in my mind and from high school. But what I love that because every every parent can choose what they feel is important for their family culture, and their family values. It's not the same. It's not a carbon copy like the the school system is. And people would say to me, you know how do you know what's going to happen when they get into
00:16:06
Speaker
I don't know, calculus or chemistry. You know, what are you going to do? And I thought, you know, if one of my kids is that brilliant, God's going to give me somebody who's that brilliant to help my child. Now, my husband's really good at math and I got through algebra too and then was like, you know, anything beyond that, it's not going to help. Anything other than that, it's like, you know, God has always been faithful. He's always given us someone at church or someone that comes across our path and knows a skill or has an interest in an area that can help our children and really
00:16:39
Speaker
Even the veterinarian, when our son was thinking about being a vet and he loves cattle and the vet said, you know, John, if you go, you're probably gonna do gerbils and lizards and you know, birds. If these are not gonna all be cows. And he said, I don't think you're gonna be happy because that's not the moneymaker. And John was like, well, they can't just do cows. I'm not really interested. I just like cows. So I think, you know, God is faithful through it all. yeah just He gives you what you need.
00:17:08
Speaker
when you need it. For sure. I
Breaking Stereotypes: Homeschoolers and Independence
00:17:12
Speaker
love that. Catherine, do you have anything to add to the? Yeah, no, I think, you know, um people will a lot of times talk about homeschooling and, you know, being sheltered or, you know, maybe not being smart or not being able to communicate And you know I have met a lot of public school kids who you know are kind of dysfunctional in some ways. And I think it does have to go with the parents or the example they have. And and some people are just kind of geeky, kind of nerdy, and that's just going to be built into you. um And I think there's a great fear of that. And it's like, well, if you have a fear of that, well, then make sure you have an outlet for your kids. But it's also pushing them to do hard things.
00:17:54
Speaker
um And I think in homeschooling, you can do that because you know, whereas in a classroom, you know, you've got whatever, like 30 kids or something, you can't narrow down and be like, oh, I have five sitting here. I know, you know, Susie has a hard time communicating with people. Well, we're going to work on that. um Whereas someone else who doesn't know your child, who, you know, did not birth your child, wouldn't understand that, wouldn't know that. um And so I think homeschooling in that sense,
00:18:19
Speaker
um you know It's not just the curriculum base. It's raising functional people who can live in the world we have today, who can have real jobs, who can start businesses, um who can branch out and have that creative mindset. It's about creating a functional human being, not just a curriculum. This is an all over you know life situation.
00:18:38
Speaker
Um, that I think, you know, when you are in school, you don't go with your mom to the post office and understand, okay, how does this work? You walk in, you say hello to the person. You know, this is how you get to the post office with without directions because you know, the area, I mean, it's just daily life. And these are things that, you know, um, aren't just like teaching in a classroom. It's day to day living, um, with your mom, how to bake, how to cook, how to organize, how to, you know, we all need those things for any, you know, job that we have in the future. So.
00:19:08
Speaker
I think it's an all over character thing, not just even a curriculum. So yeah. When you know you look at the people who were are successful, that people kind of idolize in the world, the Elon Musk, the Bill Gates, those people who are really awkward. They're not they're not socially socially normal, I would say. you know Because a brilliant mind is going to be a brilliant mind. and they And a lot of time, those people are very introspective. And I think there's something that
00:19:41
Speaker
I think it's confused with when it comes to homeschoolers is as a homeschooler, you're allowed the margin to sit and think. You're allowed the margin to to ask questions and and dig the answers for yourself. And so while it may seem very isolatory, and a lot of times there're it's just because a homeschooler is used to being able to sit and think for themselves.
00:20:05
Speaker
versus is someone who has been in public school and theyre hunt they have this constant stimuli. this you know this The classroom is loud, the playground, the gym, the art class, everything is very stimulating and they're not allowed that time to really sit and just be comfortable with them themselves.
00:20:25
Speaker
right And I think that's the difference. um and And it it gets a really bad, I mean, there are weird homeschoolers out there, but so there are weird people everywhere. every year And so it really doesn't matter. um And but what what your parents have given you, Catherine, is yeah an entrepreneurial spirit. I'm looking at these flowers behind you that people can't see, but they're you beautiful. um And so I would love for you to share a little bit on how you,
00:20:56
Speaker
got started with
Catherine's Entrepreneurial Journey
00:20:57
Speaker
that. yeah Yeah, for sure. So I think it all goes back to that same thing of being homeschooled. You're with your mom, right? She's adventuring, doing what she loves sometimes. So for me, that was my mom. She loved gardening. She loved plants. She loved flowers. That was something her mom gave to her in kind of some sense, not necessarily because you were public school. You weren't there one-on-one like I was with my mom. um But um that was just kind of given to me. And so I can remember my dad, of course, very entrepreneurial. um So he was always trying to get us like, you know what? You can do something. You might be 10, but you can find some way to do something little for the community or whatever, right?
00:21:35
Speaker
um And so given that freedom to think outside the box, to just be like, I could do this. Given the right to be able to say, and I'm never too young. right So I can remember I was 10 and my mom was teaching me how to like propagate strawberries. And I just was like, I can just remember this moment. I mean, it was just huge to me. And I was like,
00:21:54
Speaker
We could start a nursery, mom. We could do this. And I'm thinking, yeah, this is it. So that didn't happen. But at that moment, it didn't happen. But it gave me that ability to think outside the box, to be able to be where I am. What do I have today? I don't have to go out and spend millions of dollars to start a huge business. I could start small. I could do it right now. So after I graduated, I was thinking, what am I going to do? And I think it's super helpful.
00:22:24
Speaker
when you are homeschooled or you just have a family relationship, which is so key. People who actually know you and know where your strong suits sit. Um, I think it's super important that helps you because sometimes you can't see in yourself like, Oh, this is something that God has gifted me with that I'm able to go ahead and now just like launch into serve my community. So, you know, using what you have, not spending thousands of dollars, um, is we have land and I wanted to be a florist.
00:22:52
Speaker
um So instead of going into the traditional like, go take this, you know, fancy course, go do competitions, you know, all that stuff, which is great. And maybe that fits some people, which is wonderful.
00:23:03
Speaker
Um, but I decided to plow up the yard and just start planting flowers. And so, um, not maybe, you know, doing the traditional way of, you know, using social media and doing all of that at first. Um, but using the gifts that my parents gave to me to be able to live in the world that we are in, um, is I went door to door and talked to people and said, here's my flowers. Do you want to buy them? I started this business in our area and that's what I did. So I did that for a whole year.
00:23:31
Speaker
I started getting customers and banks and all different things. You know, things just open up when you have parents who believe in you. And I think if you're a homeschooling parent, believing in your kids and and telling them like, you can do this. I know you can do this. And I'm here to support you. Like I am with you in this. Like as I was with you to, you know, teach you all the things you need to know to get to this point. Um, and so yeah, after that, it just opened up a huge thing. Now we, um,
00:23:57
Speaker
open up our farm for you cuts. So once a week people come to the farm, they cut their own flowers, build their own bouquets. We host an agriculture weekend. This year we have like 25 vendors, food trucks, live music, all the things. Wow. I think I need to make a road trip. Right? So fun. And so just having my mom there to support me through that, and she did that with each of her kids. um Like my one sister made a business making natural deodorant and you know natural products and was able to sell them in a store and just like things like that, you know, ah um, so she's really given us a venue as kids to, you know, final, you know, we're going to do for a season and that can change, right? Um, that that's okay. Um, and so, you know, some of like, I have a sister who's a nurse and I have a brother who's a lawyer. So there are those things as well that you can do. And some of us are just meant to start our own business. Um, but yeah, so yeah, that's what we do. Um, my farm name is Sunny Hill flower farm. So, but yeah,
00:24:53
Speaker
i I love that and I love that you, the thing that, the thing that a lot of people, I know Elsie, you're the child, I don't know if you know who she is, but she's a great voice in the homeschool community. And she always, she one thing that she shares often about is taking our kids to Costco, taking them to the grocery store and and going to run these errands, like you said earlier, the post office or something like that, where they are having this interface with other adults other than their parents, and other than a teacher as well or administrator, right they're having to walk up to this counter and interact with this adult that they don't know, that they've never met. And eight it removes that fear of that, ah you know oh, you're you're an adult. like i I'm not supposed to talk to you. that You're not in my league. Yeah, right. like They're not valued as whole persons.
00:25:50
Speaker
And, but you were given that skill. And so when you started this business, you were able to go door to, you're like, I'm just going to go ask people. I'm not going to be afraid. And, you know, there's so, there's so much social anxiety in this world because of these.
00:26:05
Speaker
things that we have put around children early on that they end up carrying into adulthood. And this is why there's, I mean, there's jokes about, you know, millennials, I'm a millennial, and now we don't like to talk on the phone, like, we're afraid to talk on the phone. Because we, it's like, you know, you pick up the phone, if it's not your friend, you're not going to pick up the phone and necessarily hear your parents friends or whoever might be calling, what if it's something official? And it just seemed very scary. And so you have this ridiculous thing now where you have whole generation of people who are just don't know how to act. They're just like, I don't, I'm not going to call this person and try to inquire about this. And yes so then you, you really lose that entrepreneurial spirit that the, that America was actually built upon this ability to make a way for ourselves and not rely on people.
00:26:57
Speaker
But I do love how you have children who are also lawyers and nurses, like you said, and and they're not there they're going that more, like it's not really traditional, it's very hard to go to law school, but they are able to go these more traditional routes down um with the skills that you have given them and that you know you have that balance of like, ah you can do anything if you homeschool. Right, right.
00:27:26
Speaker
i think I think the more you realize that your children have gifts and talents and and like Catherine was saying, you know, you know they're weak points.
Strengthening Skills and Surpassing Generations
00:27:37
Speaker
I mean, people would say to me, you know, like, why aren't you letting them just do what they're good at? And it's like, well, because that's not reality. Reality is learning to do things you're not good at and persevering and going through it. Now, God may use you and you can just do all the ones you're good at. I have no idea how he's going to end up directing your life. but
00:27:57
Speaker
We generally, if you were weak in an area, it was we're going to make muscles in that department because you're going to go to your natural easy bent every day of the week. Why? Because that's the easy part. Catherine going door to door petrifies me as a person. I would be, maybe even though I made her this way, which seems so sad in my mind, but she's much braver than I am. I'm like, are you kidding? Go to the door and say, hi, I have flowers? I'm like, nah, I'm getting braver because I've helped her pin out flyers now. So, but generally it'd be like, okay, kids, you need to call, you need to go in and make the return.
00:28:33
Speaker
And my mom used to make me do that. I hated it. But you know what? I'm not afraid to make a return at all yeah because my mother said, no, you go do it. She made me do it because she didn't like doing it. So I guess maybe that was her process. But I looked at it and thought, you know, we can teach our kids to do hard things and hard things for a five-year-old it's not the same as a 20 year old but if you wait till they're 20 to ask them to go make a return or to go to the post office I mean dysfunctional I mean you know I look at my kids and think you know you could be married at 18 if you can't function we are in big trouble yeah because you may be bringing children in the world and you don't even know how to function yet so we would what we called it we would cast them out we would
00:29:17
Speaker
Protect them, shelter them, group, train them, and then say, okay, I think it's time to see if they can swim. And then we let them go do something that they would normally do a hard thing. And if they went under too many times, like, oh, you're not ready to be out there yet. So we bring back, do some more training, do some more challenging things at home, and then send them back out again. and And that's how all of them have been. It's like, okay, you can do this. I believe in you. I believe in you.
00:29:47
Speaker
Yeah, and that's my job and I love my job. Yeah, and I love like mom saying like, she's not great. And I didn't realize that she's not great at going door to door. So one day I said, hey, well, let's split up. Like I have a lot to do here. Like you go one way, I go the other way. And she was like, no, no, no, I But I think what's interesting is not giving in to like, she may have had that fear, but she wasn't going to impart that same fear to her kids. Like she was like, she might have you know been able to say that this is a hard thing for me to do.
00:30:17
Speaker
But I know you need to do this to be successful. So like not giving into our own fears if it is communication or, you know, talking to other people, knowing like, yeah, it's fearful for me, but I don't need to import that to my kids. Like I need to help them out of this. I need them to stand on my shoulders and be greater than me because I am training up the next generation. I think that's what's so cool about that is that like you may have had that, but you got that out of your kids. You will you will not suffer like me. that dysfunctional I love that because honestly a lot of, ah it's it's really sad within especially Christian families to see generational verses like passed down and these like fears and these, these things that we carry were like, well, that's not me. So that can't possibly be, you know, like I don't even, I'm not even being ah brave enough to train them in a better way, but it right but isn't that what we want for our children is we want them to be better than what we were. Like I hope my kids do better than I do right because
00:31:13
Speaker
um What am I doing if I'm just wanting them to stay where where I am and just be exactly repeat repeat the same things, even though they're broken? right Yeah, it's not a good plan. I think it's it's always astounded me as my children have grown up, including Catherine being the last one here. And I see them out in public, which you know should not seem abnormal, but it's like, oh my word, they they're adults.
00:31:38
Speaker
They really are. They can function. I mean, it's like our son who's in construction, it's like he's putting on bids and talking to people. I'm like, where do you learn how to do all this? yeah And he's like at home and I'm like, really? Did we teach you these things? And I'm thinking, wow, God, you're right. We pour in and you grow them.
00:31:58
Speaker
You grow them up. You make them into the men and women that you meant them to be. We're just supposed to do our job. and We're supposed to impart what we we know is good and right and just. And we need to give them a good foundation. um My husband is a lifelong learner. I listen to stuff and read stuff on the strangest topics, but it's because they intrigue me. You know, I'm reading Globe Kids. I don't have little kids with cell phones right now. They're they're none in my home. but Globe kid's been a very intriguing book so far. in in every And you have, I'm sure grandkids when yeah, and yeah, it's, it it doesn't, it doesn't stop the no, no you know parenting never
Philosophical Influences and Evolving Homeschooling
00:32:40
Speaker
ends. Once that God gives you one child, you're it for life. You don't get out of the job. You know, it might be a little different on maybe
00:32:48
Speaker
Input is different. and I'm not going to be as directive, but it's still like, you know, I'm reading a really good book. I would encourage you to do that. Wow. I didn't know this about cell phones and, you know, what the internet's all about and social media. I don't do much. So I just listen to a lot of YouTube talkers. so Yeah. So when you were starting out and going through all of, I mean, just youth.
00:33:11
Speaker
brand the gamut is as far as you know going from late 80s to even just up to a few years ago. her Were there any people that helped influence and help encourage you through your homeschooling? yeah I'd have to say, ah gosh, the names are so old and so far back.
00:33:36
Speaker
Charlotte Mason for a while, I tried doing her thing. I mean, classical education didn't come until um I'd already had my groove. i wouldn't have I would have probably never taken that groove because you know as you heard about Shakespeare, I wouldn't have been a good participant in that crowd. But I can't even really think there's so many old-timey names that no one would really even know about. like Francis Shafer was very impactful. How should we then live? And I'm thinking, okay, I need to think about this more holistically. How are we living out our Christianity? how are What are we telling our kids this is all about? Is it just about academics? No, it's about all of life. it's ah your a The way you grow into a usable, godly person,
00:34:29
Speaker
is to see God in all of life. And I think that was hugely important to us to say, you know, analogies. I was big on analogies. Like they're probably sick of all the analogies I had about like, well, this is like in the Bible, you know, but, cause I see, I see life in pictures. I still do. So someone's uses course language in front of me. I see a horrid picture. It's like, please don't talk that way. It's just looks hideous in my mind, but, um,
00:34:58
Speaker
But yeah, I'm trying to think of like probably. yeah Well, we were talking about this earlier was, you know, knowing that there are generations before you that did do this, you're not alone because before, you know, the years that you couldn't home school, there are generations of people. It's just like, you know, um mom will be talking to some women who do a home birth and it's like you know women have been giving birth for a very long time like this is not a new thing and so you're gonna be okay because it's not a medical issue um this is a way of life you know and it's gonna be fine um so i think understanding like i'm not alone
00:35:36
Speaker
but think of the generations before me, even mom's generation. This is something I could point back to when I'm raising my kids. It's like, no, she did it when it was scary. This is not scary. you This is a a great time to be doing it. There's so many, nowhere in time have we had so many resources um to homeschool, to be like, oh, we are having a challenging time. Let me go on YouTube. YouTube is the easiest. It's free. There's lots of things out there. um So being able to point back to that, I think we were talking, it was just,
00:36:04
Speaker
like thanks for that yeah i never um daughter But I think something really great mom I can always remember mom telling you know other women who are thinking about homeschooling and they go, well, I'm not gifted. And mom said, no one is gifted. This is not about being gifted. and This is about doing it because you feel like it's the right thing to do. That's how you want to raise your kids. you know But it's not about being gifted. not you know you're no You're not a school teacher. You didn't choose to like do that, but that's not what this is. So I think that's always a great thing.
00:36:37
Speaker
You do it because you're so patient." And I'm like, no, you're going to learn patience. you don't You don't come in it with like, I am gifted and patient. It's like, no, you are the mother and you need to learn a lot too. i That is something i I talk about so much when people are like, oh, you're so patient or oh, you must have the... in And I'm like, I don't have any of it without Holy Spirit.
00:37:00
Speaker
Right. they on There are fruits of this. Patience is a fruit of the spirit. If you want patience, ask God for it. Right. And he'll probably test you more. yeah Exactly. One hundred percent. I mean, being a parent, whether you send your kids to school or not, it tests your patience. And when you are a homeschool parent, I mean, my husband always jokes that I'm the most patient person in the world. I don't think so. Yeah, I don't think so at all. I feel like I have plenty of room to grow in. and but it it is something that it's like, if you if you're not disciplined in an area that you feel like you're just required at homeschool, all you have to do is ask the Lord for it and and build that work on it, work on, build those habits. And I love Frances Schaeffer. She is one of my favorite authors and her daughter, um Susan Schaeffer McCauley, I think that's her yeah name. Yeah, that's her.
00:37:56
Speaker
yeah She she's really popular in the home school world even still so it she's yes And so it's ah definitely a voice that I feel like a lot of people might be familiar. Yeah I'm like, okay. I remember that name. I probably have a couple of books with have So many books it's like somebody will ask me and one of our daughters cataloged all my books so I can go Home schooling. Okay. What are all my books on this topic? What are all these books on these topics? So it is helpful basically whoa there there is so much out there I'm I would be at this point looking at myself I would be overwhelmed with the choices I would have to make and I'm thinking ah but in that I still have lots of choices sitting in my room here with me but you're now hidden behind curtains so I was good the one of the questions I wanted to ask you because you've gotten to see the full gambit of the whole growth in homeschooling I mean and homeschool is
00:38:51
Speaker
crazy popular right now, thanks to post 2020, people realize, oh, I can do this. yeah and Are there any positives or or negatives that you see that, I mean, like you said, there's so much at our fingertips and that could be a positive and a negative, but is there anything that sticks out to you?
00:39:09
Speaker
Right I had I had a mom at church asked me about curriculum and I'm like well at this point in time what I'm seeing this one looks pretty good to me and I bought it for my daughter and then because we aren't homeschooling right now a family we know that really doesn't have the funds for it we bought a curriculum for their oldest child because they could pass down the other ones but at this point I think
00:39:35
Speaker
you can get caught up in trying to get it all right that you miss the reason you're trying to do it and it's like constantly shifting and changing and shifting and changing it's like everybody's curriculum has a bent or a direction I think That the problem is is we're looking at each other instead of looking at our child and saying well They're doing this and it's like well that might work really because I had math curriculum like this This is the right one to use it's like, okay, so I shifted I thought okay, maybe I'm wrong So I shifted my kids all came back and said as much as we hate this curriculum This one is even worse and I thought well this family said this is the best I thought it is for them It's just not for
Consistency and Structure in Homeschooling
00:40:16
Speaker
us. And so I think
00:40:18
Speaker
You have to, if your funds are unlimited, maybe you can keep changing. Mine was, this is, I bought all from kindergarten to 12th grade, baby, we're sticking with this one. yeah And it's like, you know, you don't have as many holes if you don't shift, but I think there's just so many choices and there's so much noise out there that you can get caught up in extracurricular activities and it's like you're running all over the place. And it's like, well, is that really what you need to be doing?
00:40:45
Speaker
yeah I mean, part of it, like you were saying, part of a child's development is being bored, sitting there and just pondering. And it's like, that's where all the creativity occurs. That's where all the imagination occurs. it's It's in the downtime. It's not in the busy time. Busy times you're just doing. But I think homeschooling does allow a child to be more creative and to have downtime.
00:41:12
Speaker
And I think we as parents can shove so much in there that the child really has no downtime because homeschooling I didn't feel took that many hours maybe once they got into high school and they were doing maybe higher math that might create more time require more time for them to get it done in but Within four hours we were finished. It's like, okay now let's go develop a business or go work on the farm or fix a tractor or build a building or go make something for a neighbor or work in the garden. We were involved. We put on conferences. We were involved politically. I mean, we helped campaigns for state office. I mean, we we did it all, as but as a family. ah We didn't divide much because we there was a lot of them. And so we chose music, something we could do together.
00:41:58
Speaker
But I think today there's just so many choices that you have to get the noise out and ask your husband if you're like insecure Ask him to help you pick it out And and if it doesn't work for you, then you say well, maybe you should be teaching this subject that But you know, I think it worked well I think one thing that we've seen um is sometimes because homeschooling is at home there can be um a non, and I'm not talking about school room, but a non-professionalism to it. So it could be like, well, you just stay in your jammers all day and kind of here and there like this kind of like, like not living normal. No one lives like that. Okay.
00:42:39
Speaker
In our day and age, we have the ease to be able to stay in our jams all day and like no one's going to judge you, right? But I think one thing that I really love that mom did is she made us think like, no, there's a set time for this. It gave it very, very structured and kids need structure. You can't just like let them do whatever because they're not going to get the school done because no one wants to do it. I agree. Like time was there, right? But giving them that structure, like here's an a lot amount of time. We're going to do this. You're going to start at this to a certain time of the day.
00:43:05
Speaker
and you know put on some nice clothes we're not talking about you know uniform we're not we're just sitting at the kitchen table but it does give you a good mindset when you're going into school like okay i'm in school mode and there's familiarity when it comes to that and it's scheduled um and not hyper scheduled and some days we would be like fridays are like school games and we just do school games and they'd be like hard math games and like all that you know it was fun but giving that kind of structure I think is helpful but when it's in this season of like homeschooling sometimes it can be it tends to get maybe lax if that's not maybe a strong suit um and that can have like um you know
00:43:44
Speaker
I don't know, can't help as much in education and furthering. right So I don't know. ah and And back when I started, people judged were, you know, once it even became acceptable in Michigan to home educate, people were judging you because I mean, they judged you. I mean, it's just how it works. And it's like, okay, I have to present a picture.
00:44:05
Speaker
to the best of my ability of I'm taking this seriously. I got up, I got dressed, I did my hair. I was like, this is my career. Yeah. It's the way I looked at it. This is the career I chose to be your mother and to home educate you. So pete people would look at me like, you know, you don't have to do that. And it's like, well, I know we don't have to. I get to get to do this job professionally. I get to do this job. Like I want my kids to see, I think this is important. This is an important thing. I dress for the occasion. And so, yeah, and other people did it in their pajamas. My kids would have been horrible students in pajamas, believe me. They barely could, yeah, on their best day. Might have been our gene pool or something. Yeah, a gene pool. If they were not dressed like it was serious, they didn't take it serious. It was pretty funny.
00:44:52
Speaker
yeah Because I told my husband, I said, I don't understand what the difference is between a collar on a boy's shirt and an uncolored shirt. But when they have a collar on their shirt, they do better. So they all wore polos for school. They took them off and put on a T-shirt to goof off. But man, if we were having school, you're putting your polo on because I needed kids paying attention to get it done. But it's pretty funny. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. There's somebody that walked up to my front door and I'm just. Oh my.
00:45:20
Speaker
So I was just like, you're like please don't ring the door. rush yeah I can edit this out. But I was like, what's happening right now? um We live in an area where people come and knock on our door for ah fire.
00:45:32
Speaker
So that's wow that's, we have two acres, 20 minutes from downtown Fort Worth. So it's, ok it's we did it's a family land. It's a, it's a heritage. So it's, so we're we're blessed. yeah so matter wondering yeah So sometimes we get random people who come up and I'm like, we're not selling. So I really, they man, I lost my train of thought. Thanks to that. You so you were talking about getting up and getting dressed.
00:46:02
Speaker
ah That is one of my big things. I am really, I find it very, bor every morning the first thing I do is wake up, I get dressed, I get ready for the day and make my bed. And I make my kids do the same thing because honestly, when my bed's not made, we don't we don't make our bed on Sabbath.
00:46:19
Speaker
and but it's and It is something I see it on made. I'm like, well, that looks nice. and i ah So I, i yeah and so i it's a great habit to teach. I feel like, you know, um, it it's just, it's a value that you teach your kids. It's like, cause when they, if one day they get to work from home and they don't have to get dressed every day, great.
00:46:42
Speaker
awesome, yeah but for the most part, um, and it's, and it's hard because, you know, you definitely want them to enjoy their childhood, but it is, is there's something about getting up and getting dressed and then sitting down and getting your work finished. And then if you want to go get in your pajamas when we're done with school and relax by all means, but when we sit down to do our work, we're going to sit down and And right feel proper. I mean, when I get dressed every morning, I get dressed as like, this is going to help me function. I mean, a lot of times I put on mascara, just so that way I don't rub my eyes. So it seems ridiculous, but it's just something that helps your mind. um Just know that this it's time for this.
00:47:26
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's ah it's a trigger. and And I think, you know, as I've told my kids, if they don't like something, it's like when you get married and you leave this house, you cannot do
Daily Routines and Time Management
00:47:35
Speaker
it. As long as it's not unbiblical, I don't care what you do. If you want to stay in your pajamas all day, I wouldn't. But but that's your decision. Or if you don't like to eat this, you cannot eat it when you get married. Right.
00:47:47
Speaker
Immaterial to me. Yeah, I don't really care. But I think it is it's it's a familiar It's a routine it it lessens stress in your life to have familiarity and know what's going to happen next to the best of your ability because Curveballs get thrown all the time But if you know like well when this is done we're going to do this next or when I get all my math done Then I'm going to have time off and I'm gonna make cookies mom. Is that okay?
00:48:11
Speaker
Sure, or I'm going to go out and build this or I'm going to go take care of that. But all of our kids had chore responsibilities every day into in the home and outside the home. And it was like, this is real life, because when you grow up, you're going to have this your whole life. You guys will find a way to enjoy it because you're stuck with it. You're never going to get out of it.
00:48:31
Speaker
yeah So what did y'all's rhythm look like for school and your day? How did your day flow? Okay, well, we would get up and we had to be at the kitchen table dressed at 6am because we did devotions before my husband went to work. Then we ate breakfast and he would go to work. And then from that would take till about seven o'clock between seven and eight was morning chores get your stuff done and be back in the house with your school books by eight yeah so it was either you had to go feed the dogs feed the chickens you know milk the cow and one thing we did too um and this i think is really cool is and i never forget what method you call it um but basically mountain burning yeah the mountain burning of whatever method i think that's what you call cleaning the house
00:49:14
Speaker
So basically like Monday was like clean the kitchen and then living room was on Tuesdays and you know and that way it was like okay you got out and it was like one room every single day is getting deep cleaned and you had like a designated you know place that you were supposed to be cleaning and then you could like teamwork and be like okay the both of us were on this bathroom you know on this day and whatever I just think that was really really helpful and we would do that in the morning And I think one thing that I really love mom for i prioritized was like 30 minutes. So from like 8 to 8 30, you could take 30 minutes, whatever time you want it. But to do like scripture memory, that was super great just to kind of keep that really good like log before you started all the other school.
00:49:54
Speaker
Um, and so then sometimes you would do like a list and be like, okay, if you categorize, you know, I'm going to do math from this time to this time, then next I do this. And just that consistent rhythm of like, after math, I do history. It's like habit stacking. You know, we all talk about that in life.
00:50:09
Speaker
um but in school it's the same way and then doing that time blocking like math should take me from this time to this time and then okay and then you do this anyways I just think that was super helpful to kind of keep that consistency um and maybe that's made me like a super big list person I don't know but I love a list I love a list and I guess maybe I am but She's way more listy than I am, but she's she's younger. She's got a lot of things to do. I don't list as much. I sit down and listen to her list and go over her list of what we are going to do when during the day. So I kind of know what I'm looking at, could be put pulling fence line or yeah weeding a garden. but um But at this point, yeah, i I think, you know, those are all really good good habits and I think
00:50:56
Speaker
being in a home, you can make real habits. Those are real habits that once you learn in school are just good for school. Yeah. and That's not all of life. All of life is home. It really is. I mean, yeah, no matter how I'm waking up and doing chores and putting that like, you know, that this is what we spend time with the Lord. Right. And then we're going to get into our morning chores because these things have to get done for our house to function.
00:51:22
Speaker
and then getting into the the school. And and so what what would you guys do about how long do you feel like it took you guys to do school? It sounded like a lot of it was you did a really good job of setting expectations and allowing your children to take ownership. And and we did ah by noon, by lunchtime. If somebody was really having really having a hard time, then it would be one on one with that one. And a lot of times I would take an older child, a younger child. We had a buddy system. So if we went out in public, we knew who had which kid.
00:51:52
Speaker
but they would be able to do flashcards with each other. If a child was really struggling with something and they had a younger child behind them that was supposed to learn at school, we called them the teacher. And what they were doing was repetitive flashcards with the younger child, which meant they were reinforcing the kid the child who was struggling with their math or phonics or whatever spelling.
00:52:15
Speaker
it would always be not telling them, you really stink at this, you're really bad at math, and be like, you know what, you really need to help your younger sibling. And here's the flashcards, and you're in charge.
00:52:26
Speaker
And they took it as, oh, I'm being helpful, and it's because I'm older. And and in in the end, it was reinforcing what i I knew they needed without singling them out in front of everybody saying, now you're the kid with all the problems. yeah It was never done that way. Because I i didn't think that was going to be successful in how to help them overcome, which was something they were just struggling with for whatever reason, whether they didn't pay attention the first time. But I would always try and have the person, whatever, who was struggling with an issue do the work with the younger ones so it would reinforce what they were trying to memorize or work on themselves yeah yeah but yeah which is taken to like at least one yeah one o'clock we were done by then it was like everybody's tired i'm tired we had a lot of silent reading days where it's like you know i just don't want anybody to ask me any questions today i just need a break so we'll call it silent reading day and they were giddy it was like what gets any better than this mom's letting us sit read a book all day so
00:53:24
Speaker
I was happy. I would periodically do their reading for the hour. And when the kids were napping in the afternoon, everybody had a book who was older. They sat in a chair and read it for the next hour. And everything was math. Socks are math, kitchen forks are math, yeah anything. Sets and subsets, girls' socks, boys' socks, white socks, black socks.
00:53:44
Speaker
I love it. You're highly academic. Your children are brilliant. You're already doing sets and subsets. Gosh, you could be in like junior high already. yeah Little did they know they weren't, but that's okay. That's why. I love that. And it's so it's so encouraging for me because my oldest loves, she calls her, ah she's the teacher to our five year old.
00:54:06
Speaker
And she takes, she wears it with pride me one day, it was me just saying, Hey, can you go read this book to her so I can do lessons with this one? And then she turned, she read the book and then turned it into a whole lesson. And I was like, yeah But it's great because you you get to hear them reinforce these things that they should know. And it gives them practice, but also gives them a pride and responsibility. Like, oh, I get to do this. I get to show this person, especially if you have a child with a natural leadership tendency that it's like now you get to have them practice that within the home and leading and guiding people. um right So is there anything that we didn't cover that you want to share?
Reflecting on Homeschooling Joys and Successes
00:54:45
Speaker
my Well, I don't know. I think, you know, um for me, Catherine's been the culmination of all the good, bad and ugly, um you know, the things you learn went through the first one with a raise your hand and sit in a chair and and you realize, like, you know, um I just really try to encourage anyone who's home educat educating. It's like, this is the best years of your life. It is the delight of my heart. I see it. I would do it all over again. People think I'm nuts, but I'm like, are you kidding?
00:55:18
Speaker
I had a ball. I learned actually prepositions. Go figure. I got all A's in school. I'm like, so that's why we were supposed to do this. so yeah you know And I'm thinking, you know you get to relearn. You get to see things through a child's eyes. You get to see them grow up before you. And and and I wasn't raised in a Christian home, so I get to see my children see how God is in all of life. And it just isn't any better than that. It just delights me to see them go beyond me. I mean, they're all way beyond me. I'm like, but they're supposed to stand on my shoulders. And it's like, great. I hope, glad my shoulders were there. I hope they were up higher off the ground than I think they are. But I just look at, you know, what Catherine's been able to do and my other children. I just, I'm just shocked most days.
00:56:07
Speaker
It's amazing. Catherine, do you have anything, dad? Yeah, I would just say you know to anybody listening, like it is it is worth it. and You might be freaked out. Your kids are going to turn out weird and and they won't because God is in control and he's going to lead them through that. and Like you were saying, just praying and asking God for guidance, um I think is super helpful. so You're going to do great and it's going to be wonderful and your kids are going to grow up.
00:56:33
Speaker
And it will happen. It does. Well, thank you so much, ladies, for sitting down. I could seriously keep going and going and going ah with you guys because y'all are just wealth of just wisdom. And I'm appreciative for you imparting that on this, especially as a veteran homeschooler who homeschooled 11 children. That is a testament in and of itself. Just saying that.
00:56:58
Speaker
right there you go all right i'll talk to you guys later night no
00:57:07
Speaker
for child
00:57:24
Speaker
All right. There you go. All right. I'll talk to you guys later. Bye.