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The Power of Unstructured Play in Education with Dr. Kelly Cagle
70 Plays2 months ago
Dr. Kelly Cagle, an educator and homeschooling parent, shares her journey and insights on homeschooling. She discusses her background, including moving to the US from Brazil and her passion for education. Kelly also talks about her experience pursuing a PhD while raising three children and how she set boundaries, simplified her life, and remained consistent to achieve her goals.In this conversation, we discuss the benefits of homeschooling and the importance of parent engagement in education.
Find Dr. Kelly on Instagram at @drkellycagle and her podcast Parenting IQ Podcast (you'll find my episode aired on 8/27/2024).
Kelly's Mentions: Sally Clarkson: Mission of Motherhood, Bob Goff, Joshua Becker: Things That Matter, Jennifer Pepito: Habits for a Sacred Home, Tom Nichols: The Death of Expertise, Multiple Intelligence, Kim John Payne
*Amazon links are affiliate links in which I receive a small commission, thank you for supporting me with your purchase through my link.
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Transcript
Introduction and Purpose
00:00:08
Speaker
Are you considering homeschooling, but don't feel qualified or don't know where to start? Are you a homeschooler and feeling lost or just need some encouragement? This podcast is for you. My hope is that through everyday homeschoolers stories, you will be encouraged, inspired and empowered to and in your homeschool.
Acknowledgments
00:00:35
Speaker
I want to thank my friends and fellow homeschoolers, Cole and Lindsay Novak of Good Company, for allowing me to use their song to be here now. You can follow them on Instagram at music.goodcompany, their podcasts, Good Company podcast on Apple and Spotify, as well as on YouTube.
00:01:02
Speaker
Quick note before we get into today's podcast, I wanted to apologize. I'm so sorry guys that I kept you hanging. I had no idea what went into podcasting and I got super burned out super quick. And I'm sorry, I'm sorry for not leading in health. And so I can confidently say this next season will be amazing and consistent. I am moving to an every other week episode. This will allow me more time to have conversations with people and more time to edit. So it just allows me to put out the best product to you guys as I can.
00:01:36
Speaker
um Thank you for everyone who checked in to see when this was going to come back. You guys are the reason why I'm back. It really allows me to gauge where the entrance is and where my time should be put if I know that people are enjoying this. So if you could leave a review, that would really help me out. Thanks.
Meet Dr. Kelly Cagle
00:01:53
Speaker
With a PhD in education, Dr. Kelly Cagle helps tired moms simplify and create a rhythm that brings grace, purpose, and vision to their families through one-on-one coaching and workshops.
00:02:05
Speaker
She's a boy mom of three, lover of Jesus and people, and believer that parents should be their children's number one teacher, even the non-homeschoolers. When not researching, teaching, or coaching, you can find her with a cup of coffee or a Tobu Chico and join the outdoors or cheering on her sons at their games. I'm so excited for you to hear from her, so we are going to jump right in.
00:02:33
Speaker
You're welcome. Thank you, Brittany. So happy to be here. Yes, I'm going to call you Kelly from now on. Oh, 100%. Please do. To respect your personhood and the hard work that you did. Nope. It's completely fine. I'm so happy you're here. So I just want to jump right in and find out who you are, your marriage, and how many kids you have and all that.
00:02:55
Speaker
Okay, sure thing.
Dr. Cagle's Educational Journey
00:02:56
Speaker
So who am I? I'm Kelly, as you mentioned. I always like to point out this part of my story because it really shapes a lot of who I am. I moved with my family from Brazil when I was 11. And when we moved here, I spoke no English and my parents just like dropped me off at school and it was like good riddance and taught me two sentences. And one of them was, sorry, I don't speak any English. So people wouldn't think I was being rude. And then the second one was, may I go to the restroom, please?
00:03:24
Speaker
So it was literally survival, but that really shaped a lot of of who I am and my pursuit of the Lord. ah After I graduated high school, I went to missionary school and met my husband there. And that next month will be our really recent, will be 20 years since we met. So we were babies when we started dating and then not long after we got married.
00:03:52
Speaker
and left the mission field and came home and started going to college and doing all the things. I became a teacher and that's where a lot of my passion for education comes from, is I know what it's like being the oddball in a room full of people. And whenever it came to me choosing my profession, I i just knew that i I never wanted people to feel like that. I wanted, whether it was students or it was parents, I wanted everyone to have a place for their voice.
00:04:21
Speaker
And so that turned into my academic pursuit. And it's all an act of obedience that I just kept going to school and the Lord would say, no, you're not done. And I'm like, you're crazy. Are you sure? I'm not smart enough. And and here I am.
00:04:37
Speaker
Gosh, I don't know, 12 years of school later, I don't even know how long that took, 20 years of school, um that when I had three kids, I got accepted into my PhD program. I was 39 weeks pregnant when I got my doctorate acceptance letter. I could not even imagine. Yeah, with my third.
00:04:58
Speaker
And then the third one was like the icing on the cake, but he, like I couldn't put him down. And so we just buckled down and we did it. So yeah, I've got three sons. They are now 13, eight, and six. And they've always watched me be a student, always their whole life. And so when it comes for me to kind of have the same expectation of them, a student of life, the world being your school, and they go there with me.
00:05:26
Speaker
So that's a little bit about me. That's
Cultural Influences and Challenges
00:05:28
Speaker
amazing. I had no idea that you were from Brazil, but I guess it really makes sense because your skin has always just got that like soft golden like tint to it. Yeah. Well, I guess so. We are always outside. So the olive tone definitely gets, gets most of the Texas sunshine and goes for it. Yeah. So how was that going into school, not speaking English at, I mean, that was like sixth grade.
00:05:55
Speaker
Yeah. grade six So here's another interesting part of my story that with the academic really pours into what I believe in for what the school system does and doesn't equip our kids with. It's a different conversation for another day. Maybe we'll go there. But when I moved here, I had in Brazil, the school year is different and we had just finished fourth grade. We moved in December of 1998 and I had just finished fourth grade. In America, that's middle of the school year.
00:06:24
Speaker
So when I came with my transcript, remember, no English little girl that was sitting in front of the counselor and she's looking at my transcript and my age and my grades, she says, okay, well, you have two options. You can either go into the second semester of fifth grade based on what you just finished and your age, or based on your transcript, you can go into sixth grade.
00:06:48
Speaker
second semester sixth grade so of course like that's a no-brainer so i never took fifth grade i skipped a year and a half of school even though i had no language proficiency wow And then that was then. And it was, to answer your question, emotionally it was petrifying. It was, ah I cried all the time because I was alone and I was scared and there was no one to help me. And I couldn't get help from anybody because I couldn't even tell people what I needed. Had no friends. The teachers loved me just like with their eyes, you know, they wanted to be there for me. So I cheated my way through it. Oh man. Yeah.
00:07:29
Speaker
I mean, that is pretty wild. I even let you, without knowing the language, go up a grade. That's scary. but Scary is the right word. Yep. Yeah. So tell me exactly what you have your doctorate in.
00:07:47
Speaker
So it's actually an education. If you want, do you want me to tell you the full title or? Let's go. Let's go work for it. ah So it's, it's K through 16. So what that means is from kindergarten all the way to higher education, I can do any of it. K through 16 educational leadership and policy studies. Wow. That is, how did you do that with two kids and well, three really, because my guess by the time, yeah,
00:08:16
Speaker
your youngest was born, you were in the thick of it. So I have three words that I've stuck with that I put into place then that kind of stuck with me. The first one is boundaries.
00:08:29
Speaker
I set really high boundaries because I knew that I needed to have them in order to succeed. So I said no to a lot of good things. At the time, I served on the worship team at my church. We led life groups. We were super involved, served a whole bunch, did mission trips, did all the things. So I said no in that season to a lot of good things.
00:08:53
Speaker
Then, so it's boundaries. The second word is simplicity. I back down and I did only what needed to get done, what needed my attention. And the third word is consistency. I had to be consistent with whatever routine I knew I needed to put in place to finish, right? to Cross the finish line. And so um that that became my life motto. And I started my PhD seven years ago. I finished it in three years.
00:09:23
Speaker
There were 14 of us actually 15 of us when we first started the cohort two of them dropped out because it's not it's just not easy and Of the 13 left over it was me and another guide that were the first ones to ah complete just because we both were like hey We're paying a lot of money for this and it's a lot of sacrifice from our parts We're buckling down and we're both doing it. So we just kind of held each other accountable and went for it and so it's a season that you just You just know your end goal and you keep a tab and you keep checking boxes off. So I practically, I woke up at four in the morning most days. ah That is if we had a decent night of sleep with our infant, which was not often. I did a lot of work with him attached to my
00:10:14
Speaker
nursing situation. I don't know what I could say here.
00:10:20
Speaker
know you know Moms, you understand. no You understand. So ah I typed with that constantly. I attended grad classes like my husband would show up early from work. We would high five each other. I would hand over a warm bottle I just pumped and head out the door. And a lot of times drove home in tears because it was so exhausting and so overwhelming and so difficult.
00:10:44
Speaker
But him and I support system. My parents, his parents, we just kind of, we knew what we wanted. And through God's grace, really, there's no other explanation. He helped us. That's so incredible. That is, I mean, a lot of women struggle with just folding laundry. Yeah. And you accomplish so much with a newborn and a toddler and other young children. That's really incredible.
Transition to Homeschooling
00:11:12
Speaker
um When did you first hear about homeschooling? So during my PhD, so my dissertation, I wrote it about, I started researching alternative instructional methods, just different ways of doing it. In the middle of my PhD, we personally joined. My son started at a charter school, my oldest started at a charter school. And then again, the more that I learned, the more I experienced, the more that I learned the politics behind it and experienced it firsthand.
00:11:43
Speaker
We decided to choose something else and we joined a university model school and my research my dissertation was on that I actually have a handful of academic journals that are published on our academic um articles that are published in academic journals.
00:12:01
Speaker
Over this that all of these findings and research I conducted on the university model and it's a combination of homeschooling and in-person school under a highly qualified certified teacher and so We did that. We loved it, really, or continue to be strong believers. A lot of my friends are still in that realm, still believe it's a super strong model alternative for parents, especially for parents who are working parents. I think it's a phenomenal option. But then we reached the point in university model certified schools. When a kid enters seventh grade, which is considered secondary,
00:12:42
Speaker
They then switch schedules. So primary and elementary grades go kinder through sixth grade. They go Tuesday, Thursday in person. Monday, Wednesday, Friday, they come home and they do all of the assignments that the teacher signed and it's very parent heavy. It's beautiful.
00:13:01
Speaker
But then on secondary, whenever it's flipped, then they go in person Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Well, when my oldest reached seventh grade, we would no longer ever be on the same schedule with our littles. So the model for what it was designed, it was designed to keep families together and while getting a really solid education.
00:13:21
Speaker
It no longer worked for us. And so then we, because of my experience and a lot of my friends are experienced homeschooling parents and we tapped into it. And we said, you know what, God, we, I just, we just heard from the Lord again. We don't do anything without hearing his voice and instruction. That's like, that's it. That's bottom line. If he tells us to go, we're doing it. If he tells us not to, then we ain't going. So homeschooling was just like that for us is we heard him and We started. Yeah, that's amazing. And I had no idea that university model switched like that. and It would make sense because I'm sure the class load is heavier. But and I love, though, that you chose to prioritize your family being together versus your oldest going off and doing that three days a week and never being with your younger two really because ah because of that schedule. he
00:14:19
Speaker
And I just love that you were willing to step into the kind of that uncomfortability of like, this is what we planned and this is what we really desired, but it's not working. or the way we thought it would. And so that's so cool. And honestly, Brittany, I know that a lot of your audience will probably understand this because there most of them are homeschoolers or considering homeschooling. The whole heart behind the age, the school age, pulling kids apart from parents and pulling the family apart and in the the time constraints of having to go physically to a school and be away from each other and all those things.
00:14:55
Speaker
We, with my oldest being 13 and the other two being eight and six, we actually had three miscarriages in the middle and we never thought that we were going to have more kids. We just prayed and prayed and prayed and and God granted us, answered our prayer in that. And so when the the the age gap is never something that we planned, so then because it became part of our story, we knew there was more we needed to do to fight the that age gap differences. We knew we'd never wanted our oldest to feel like an only child, unrelatable to his younger siblings and vice versa. We didn't want the two to be tight knit and then the oldest felt like he was the oddball out.
00:15:37
Speaker
So we always fought for unity within our kids, which is why we even joined a university model school in the first place. So when it no longer did that for us, served us that primary purpose of us choosing that model, we knew there was something else we needed to do. That's amazing. That's just so, uh, like that's just that, that hands open, like everybody talks about their hands being open and willing to do whatever the Lord asked them. But I mean, that that really is what you did through this whole process was say like, Lord, this is what we want. How do we make it happen? And that's just so cool. So you guys are pretty new to homeschooling, right? And very yeah yes, I actually had the joy. We actually go to the same church, which people don't know yet, but yeah we go to the same church and we never met in person.
00:16:30
Speaker
right And we were at the Waterfree Conference in Franklin, Tennessee, and you ran up to a group of us because he recognized us from church. And you were like, oh my goodness, it was, you just dove right into the homeschool world. You didn't like tiptoe in. You're like, I am all in, by the way.
00:16:51
Speaker
Well, and you know, i don't I don't know how to live any other way because I, ah just like with my PhD or with anything else that I've ever done in life, it I marinate with the thought for a long time. So I do a a lot ah lot of research.
00:17:06
Speaker
And research includes reading, but it also includes talking to experts in the fields, right? So I do a lot of research, a lot of talking, a lot of asking questions. I ask a lot of questions. And so once I make up my mind and once I, you know, I feel like the Lord dropped a thought, I start tapping into that thought. And so I can't, I don't know any other way other than, hey, this makes sense. Hey, the Lord's telling us to, so it's he's going to make it work.
00:17:35
Speaker
You know, and so yeah, we just we just drove right in. And yeah, I met you in Tennessee, which is such a treat, because now now we see each other at treasure. Like,
Homeschooling Philosophy
00:17:44
Speaker
hey, remember, it really is wild that what took us going to Tennessee to actually meet in person. Um, so how did, like, you said you read a lot of books and you did a lot of research. What was your favorite book that you read or speaker that you heard or who who is like your person that you're just like, I love gleaning from this person. I thought I had it back here, but I don't. I typically keep some of my my go to books over here, but I don't have it here.
00:18:18
Speaker
Um, two of them. So one of them obviously is mama Clarkson, Sally Clarkson, right? I, when I met her in person in Tennessee, I said, mama Sally. And she just kind of looked at me. I'm like, I can't help it. This is just who you are to me. Such a mentor. And I believe for any mom, she should be a mentor that we learn from and get poured into. Bye. So the mission of motherhood, that was a big eye opener for me just saying, Hey, I'm a mom.
00:18:48
Speaker
This is my role. There ain't nobody else in the world that needs to take this role for me, right? by This is so important and I prioritize this with my being. This is something that I really treasure and will steward my kids to the best of my ability. So mama Clarkson and then the other one is kind of a a very know, might not make sense to a lot of people in this community who are probably learning from other homeschooling mamas, but there is a minimalist called Joshua Becker.
00:19:22
Speaker
And he, I've read most of his books and that what I love about him is that full simplicity concept of man, you don't need a lot to live a very fulfilling life. But he wrote a book that was called Things That Really Matter or Things That Truly Matter, something or what truly matters, I think. Let me go back and make sure of that title. um But it's Joshua Becker, it's his name. And when I read that,
00:19:51
Speaker
I'm about to look it up right now. When I read that, I was like, there is no way that things that matter is what it's called, by the way. Things that matter by Joshua Becker. And there's no way that I'm going to let the world dictate what I do or the system, the side, what happens to my kids, how much they learn or their limitations or their labels.
00:20:18
Speaker
And so that book by Joshua Becker was actually the green light for us to homeschool. It was, man, this this right here, the simplicity of life is what I want in my day to day with my kids, including in schooling. I don't want them learning all the fluff that isn't going to be applicable in the real life, the real world that are equipping them as adults right now as kids, but also as adults. And and that book was just like freeing. It freed, it was freeing for me.
00:20:48
Speaker
to make a choice that i I thought was just best in the simplification factor. I'm going to simplify, I'm going to do what I want. right that's I love that because a lot of there's so many, I was just talking to someone yesterday and i was they grew up homeschooled and there wasn't that much offered in the 90s and the early 2000s as far as homeschool goes. And now we have all of these bright shiny things that we see on social media and that are advertised to us through social media and even our email. likes I'm shocked at how much email advertisements I get from just you know spam of like, look at this curriculum. yeah And I feel like that it's while it's great to have so much at our fingertips now, because especially if you have different learners, if you have neurodivergent children,
00:21:39
Speaker
It's so great the things that are our fingertips. However, it can get so distracted so so distracting that you can just try to do a whole bunch and you try to pile these things on because you feel like, oh, that's what they're showing me that I need to be doing. But really, when you scale things back, it ends up being much richer than when you have all of the fluff in there.
00:22:04
Speaker
ah yeah that I I definitely agree with you and to me, whenever you simplify life, you actually create time for stillness and boredom and what happens in boredom. You you create.
00:22:21
Speaker
yeah Very seldom do we sit and do nothing and not have really fruitful thoughts as adults and as kids yeah and So if we constantly have things pulling for their attention or telling them what to do I like to say this that kids are kids are kind of like little robots we can really program them and we can tell them what to do where to go what to eat what to wear like we can do all these things for them or we can pull back and we can let their independence flourish and their creativity take root because you know what happens in those two things? Confidence. Yeah.
00:23:03
Speaker
They become confident in their voice. They understand about themselves. And this is all part of, you know, part of life. It's in even with us. If we are go, go, go, go, go, go, we're too busy. If we are looking for this curriculum, this and that, and there's this book and there's this, we get distracted with a checklist.
00:23:21
Speaker
was needing to do more when in reality, we just pull back and you sit outside, they're going to get a lot of payoff than if they have to sit in front of this book and that book and this book and that book for more information. Learning happens everywhere if you let it, if you create space for it. and I love that. You shared something on ah Instagram, I think it was yesterday, the day before about play, the importance of play.
00:23:50
Speaker
And I think that is something that is so important. I think, especially as we get up and as you get up in the upper years, a lot of people think, oh, they don't need to play anymore. And I would love for you to speak into that because play is a foundational part of education.
00:24:07
Speaker
Yeah, I would love to tap into that. So one of the things I talk about a lot on social media is unstructured play.
Importance of Play and Presence
00:24:16
Speaker
And unstructured play is literally that is just free play, right? There's no structure to it. There's nothing. One of my favorite things is Legos. Okay. If you buy a brand new box of Legos and you give it to a kid, what are they going to do the moment they open that box? Look for the instructions.
00:24:33
Speaker
look for the instructions. They're going to do what they're told to do because they want the outcome. It's really cool. Lego research is amazing. they I mean, they spent hours and millions into the research behind developing that product, yeah okay? But that's what it does. It helps. your It does something for your kid and all they're doing is following instructions. However, if you lose instructions, which will happen because you never keep the instructions,
00:25:01
Speaker
Or you break it. God forbid you just broke. Oh my gosh. The the thing the masterpiece you just built broke. Then what happens?
00:25:11
Speaker
You do what you want. Yeah. You do what you want. You put it back. You recreate. You do whatever. You make it better. you make it better The other day, my kids and I now share this on social media, which by the way, you guys can find me at Dr. Kelly Kegel as we're talking about the social media. But this is what I do. i I like to bring in research into everyday life. So instead of just talking about boring research, it's like, this is how it applies to your life. So play. My sons the other day, I have one that's ah just an absolute master builder and he came down and he had built a cage for the tigers.
00:25:50
Speaker
Then the following day, they spent two hours, the little, the eight and six year old spent two hours upstairs and my oldest is like, where are they? I'm like, I don't know, but just they're quiet. Let them play. They're doing something. They're onto something. And and he, you know, being older, he goes and does his own thing. So they came down with a trailer. So now not only that is there a trailer with a key that locks the door for the tigers, then they come with a trailer that they found the tire. I mean, like the design is insane.
00:26:19
Speaker
and And that's because I'm letting them be. So letting them work together. They're playing together. The lessons are endless. There is so much that happens when you play. And so it's it's vital, whether you are homeschooling, whether you have your kids in some kind of whatever schooling that you choose. To me, honestly, it it it doesn't matter. It's up to the person, right? Because not every family can homeschool. And I understand that. And I try to i have a lot of space to talk about every model because there are families who just truly cannot do it.
00:26:55
Speaker
And that's fine. But what can you do with the time that you do have with your kids to tab help them tap into play? you know i I love that. my you know I was public schooled and i my parents didn't make school like learning stop at school. At three o'clock, learning wasn't done. We were readers.
00:27:20
Speaker
Um, we went to the library often as a family and check out stacks of books, you know, and, um, we always had conversation. They, I mean, allowed us to play, you know, for up until bedtime, you know? Um, and it was, and I took that and was, it just thought about that recently that it, even if you send your kid to public school, you have so much opportunity when they come home to do these homeschool type things. it yeah that The parents rely so heavily on the teachers to provide everything that they come home and it's screens, it's you know it's just homework and extracurriculars and extracurriculars are fun, they're great, but yeah but um not
00:28:16
Speaker
when you don't allow them that unstructured play time um to even because you work through so much emotion, so much like the processing of feelings through play. I mean, watching that my girls, even with my son play house, it It is amazing the conversation that they had, that I hear them working through conflicts that they have had. I hear them just through their play though. They're not hashing it out. They're not fighting. They're recreating it. So that way they later, I don't even know if they realize they're doing it or if they do realize I have no idea. But it is really fascinating when you get to watch that. And even with the Legos, we went to a garage sale and bought a $15 bin, giant bin.
00:29:01
Speaker
as leg of Legos, so many that my husband was like, one more Lego was not allowed in this house. It was insane. and But what I loved about this giant bit of Legos, it was just a bunch of random parts. There were no instructions because my firstborn is so such a rule follower instruction, like, um, like, I need to know the exact way to do it. Yeah. And through this bin of Legos that she is now organized and made a way that functions well for her. She has got into making stop motion videos with her Legos. And she creates all of these scenes. And um I mean, it is really, really fun to watch her take that and then say, I'm gonna make a story out of this. yeah And so one thing that we're going to incorporate next year, she asked me if she can start help telling her narrations for her schoolwork through her Legos. And I just was like,
00:29:58
Speaker
I know. That's great. That's awesome. So it's a way that we, she can incorporate it. And so she, she wants to, while I'm reading, she wants to build it and so listen and then be able to tell me when we're done what she's done. That is beautiful. Isn't that so cool? Just from Legos. And I know a lot of people have like, Oh, they're plastic. They're so valuable. Yeah. No, I totally agree. And you know, going along with your story, what happens whenever you have this understanding, again, regardless what school model you participate in. If the world becomes your school, that's what I like to say, the world becomes your school. Again, it doesn't matter if it's it's not a building. Learning doesn't isn't tied to a building. now you know So if kids, regardless of where they go to school from A to whatever,
00:30:50
Speaker
whether it's in their pajamas in the living room or in uniforms in the school setting, it doesn't matter because learning happens everywhere. But what happens whenever you give them the joy of learning and they take they partake in this ownership, then they start voicing what's interesting to them. And they're like, hey, can I add a spin to this? And if parents have, again, it goes back to that simplicity. If we have the capacity and the time,
00:31:21
Speaker
to allow for these things, then they will continue to live this life of curiosity of, wow, my voice really matters. Therefore, I'm going to voice what I've got, like the thought that I have. Mom just welcomed my idea, even though I probably, it's likely she sat on that for a long time before she even proposed something. Or if you've given them the space suit, like an open door policy, and they just come to you the moment they have a thought, it doesn't matter.
00:31:49
Speaker
But when they are adults and they're in the workspace and they have an idea because we've created this welcoming of their ideas, then the opportunities are endless for entrepreneurship, for you know promotions because they have good ideas. Yeah. and I that think that's a big reason why universities are recruiting homeschoolers because They don't think in the box. They're creative thinkers. They're able to also and come up with solutions i you know that will help themselves as well. And because they've given they've been given this space too, and they don't have to follow this structure that's in the school system.
00:32:38
Speaker
and we and you know And I you know people are always like, oh, people just talk so poorly about the school system, system but it's it is a system. And it's not necessarily, it's not the teacher's fault. They're just really doing what they're told. They have a boss who's telling them that they need to perform a certain way. And so a lot of times teachers are stifled in what they would they would like to do because of their administration. And so- So I think that's why it's important that if you do choose to send your kid to school, because I know a lot of homeschoolers now that they're having to make hard decisions for financial reasons because of the the current and economic ah crisis that we're going through where groceries are just outrageous and home prices are going through the roof. and They're having to put their kids in school, in but they're trying to find ways how they can continue that lifestyle
00:33:34
Speaker
And so yeah, if if somebody is listening that wants to send their kids to school. And that's why, Brittany, I'm not scary. Sure. I am such a believer in the family health as a unit.
00:33:50
Speaker
And homeschooling isn't the only way that brings health to your children, to your marriage, and to your family. And so that's why I'm i'm such an advocate for parent engagement. Ultimately, that is all all that matters, obviously, other than Jesus Christ being and at the center, right? You can't get away from that. But that's all that matters is your engagement, your dedication, your intentionality,
00:34:20
Speaker
your authenticity. you know it Again, as you said, we won't get into the public school system research. I've got that too. If you're curious and you want to talk more, you can shoot me a DM and I'd be more than happy to go there with you. But there there are a lot there's just a lot of history behind the system and the the structure of the system.
00:34:42
Speaker
But if you have no alternative, that's okay. Because guess what? The academic, you can support. The emotional, you can support. The spiritual is your number one job anyways. It doesn't matter if you go to a Christian school, like but everybody's going to come up. The world's everywhere. Yeah. You know, noise is everywhere. Yeah. Curse words are everywhere. Perversion is everywhere. What are you going to do in your home?
00:35:10
Speaker
to be louder than the world. So good. I got chills. So good. it that Just so good. Being louder than the world. We get to set the tone. We get to set the values. We don't have to let outside people influence it because the reality is, you know, homeschoolers get a bad rep for being sheltered.
00:35:36
Speaker
And, you know, there is a season, you know, I feel like we're still somewhat sheltering our kids. We're allowing topics to come up as they ask and some things we need to be proactive about ah oh a lot of things. But there are some things that we're choosing ah to wait on because we want to protect that innocence until they are able to process those things and not attach emotion to it.
00:36:06
Speaker
hu like not attached like this fear or this worry or anything like that. It's it it's approaching things in a healthy way and not with religion. you know Because when you approach it with religion, then your kids are probably going to rebel against that. hey and But if you instead live it out you know and show them you know passively, you're not actively necessarily doing it, but passively showing them your values. and passively showing them ah how you speak and how you speak to others and the words we use, the music we listen to, the movies we watch and stuff like that. it's It says a lot more than you just telling them constantly on how how they should be.
00:36:54
Speaker
So my favorite author is Bob Goff and Bob but posted something the other day and he said it was something about teaching your kids how to love others. And he was like,
00:37:06
Speaker
You don't need to teach them anything. You don't need to teach your kids anything. You show them how to love others. You show them. And a lot of times we get so caught up in this world of there's so, as you mentioned earlier, there's so much information pulling at us at all the times. Do this. You need to do this. If you want to be a good mom, you do this. And you're missing out if you're not doing this. Oh, I cracked the code. This is how you get your kids to be like,
00:37:31
Speaker
There's all of, of, there's a book that I read during my PhD that was called the death of expertise. And what the author was talking about was how there are so many experts nowadays with the, the, this digital age of the information age. They're so, everybody's an expert. Everybody figures things out. Everybody knows how to do it. And the the truth is.
00:37:53
Speaker
Our kids don't need to be taught. Our kids need to be shown. And it's through how we live our lives. It's how how we love our husbands. It's how we talk to them. It's how we just sit and listen to them. it's not It doesn't always take our words. It takes our presence. It takes our eye contact because a lot of times we are too busy looking at this.
Parental Roles and Responsibilities
00:38:14
Speaker
So when they come in the room, put it down.
00:38:17
Speaker
I'm not saying I've got this mastered, but it's something that's always on my mind. So when my kids come in, if I'm really in the middle of something and tell them, hold on just a second, I'm almost done. But if we don't meet them where they are, they're going to stop coming yeah because we're not we're not showing up for them. And so I just said a lot to say that, just show them. awesome yeah Show them how to love, show them how to live, show them who to be yeah by the way you live and love and be in our.
00:38:47
Speaker
So back to like your personal homeschool, do you guys follow any particular method? I mean, I know you did the classical model when you did where they were in school, but ah what do you guys, are you all more eclectic?
00:39:02
Speaker
We're very hodgepodge. We are very go with the flow. So we did ah my father's world with the Littles. We actually bought the full curriculum for everybody. And we loved it for the Littles. It was very beautiful and engaging. And the Littles really loved it. For Levi, my seventh grader, honestly, at the time he was a seventh grader.
00:39:25
Speaker
He's very, he's my first born and like your first born, he wants to do things right. So he wants to do it, but it also has to be very engaging. Because if we want to tap into another theoretical framework through my, my research is there's this multiple intelligence theory that I follow by Howard Gardner, a psychologist from Harvard and all this other stuff. But there are eight different ways that kids learn or that people learn.
00:39:49
Speaker
And I won't go into all of them, but he, my oldest, is a bodily kinesthetic, which means that he needs to be moving for engagement to fully take place. And so I knew that the and ah any alternative instructional method of any sort, whether it was university model or homeschooling,
00:40:09
Speaker
he He really needs to be moving and so I we quit I equipped him a lot. We talked about it a lot We talked about self-control a whole lot in the fruit of the spirit and it's been beautiful to watch him take ownership of who he is and know that he's Beautifully made and he's wonderfully made even through his level of energy. That's insane.
00:40:32
Speaker
and So am I. Him and I are a lot alike in that area. And so bringing that into our school has been really interesting. He's also gifted mathematically, logically and mathematically. And so we kind of just made it more advanced. And if you go by what the world, the school system says he should be, he's technically in ninth grade, we just kind of tapped our toes into eighth grade, but kind of we're like, Hey, you know, up mid semester, we're like, Hey, he needs more like, we just, we're just going to go into ninth grade. So we kind of went into more of the ninth grade level. So algebra and biology and doing more of those things with him. So
00:41:11
Speaker
It's, we are very, for a for this coming school year to be super authentic with you, we haven't, we don't know yet. I've been thinking, I've been praying, I'm looking through catalogs, I'm talking to friends, I'm figuring things out. And I can't tell you yet what we're going to do, but I know for a fact that most likely it's going to be, I'll piece something together that pertains to my very spatially gifted child.
00:41:36
Speaker
my very strong linguistic child and also my high energy child will be something together for really for each of them. I love that freedom in your voice when you're like, we haven't figured out next year yet. Yeah. Because I feel like so many people are in the like, what do we do next year? What do we do next year? It's July. It's mid July. We got to figure out what we're doing next year. And there's like a kind of a panic. Yeah. And you're just like, we'll figure it out. Yeah.
00:42:04
Speaker
Well, again, it goes back to we've done it for a year. but kind of Last year I was like this. I was very like, oh my gosh, we need to figure this out. But now that we've done it, now that we have tapped into more of the freedom that's involved in this.
00:42:22
Speaker
I can't tell you yet. I'm thinking, I'm talking, I'm researching, I'm praying. and I know that, again, I go all the way in as i as I mentioned earlier. I do my back work first and then when the time comes to pull the trigger, then it's like, all right, babe, get ready because I'm about to make all this purchase. We'll figure it out. I love that because I there's i feel like that that need to know comes stems from people's public school experience.
00:42:51
Speaker
um And because you see all that's where it came from for me was seeing my friends in public school and I felt this urge like well if I'm in homeschool I have to be on that same level of like knowing exactly what we're gonna do and I have to feel confident and it it it'll it but it's a false confidence. Yeah, really it it because you're doing it just because of the pressure, outside pressure. Yeah. So when I was starting, I was kind of just on my social media asking for help and tips. As I told you, I ask a lot of questions. And one seasoned homeschooling mom commented on one of my reels and she said,
00:43:25
Speaker
Don't follow public school. Don't make it look like public school. And I was like, that's kind of a no brainer. But then I really got what she said. it It took me a minute until I got my hands wet. My feet were wet, but then I got my hands wet and I was like, ah.
00:43:41
Speaker
This is what she's talking about, that I don't have to make it. The bell's ringing at eight o'clock. It can be, hey, we're going to sit around and we're going to have a family devotional and we're going to pray before we get going because we need Jesus in this space more than we need our our book work or what our intelligence, right? We need His presence and we need the fruit of the Spirit and we wrote a family vision statement. And instead of the Pledge of Allegiance, which we also say,
00:44:08
Speaker
sometimes not always but we we say our family vision statement because to me it's important for their identity to be so to be rooted in who we are as a family and who the Kegels are and who we are going to be on that accountability because I'm not always gonna be with them but if you ask them if you stop my kids at church on Sunday and you ask them hey tell me tell me your family vision statement and it starts with we and they're gonna tell you what it is And so it's it's figuring this rhythm. It's your home. It's your rhythm. It's your family. It's your kids. And you you figure it out. And a lot of times I haven't had time to do reading with my kids, but guess what? My husband comes in at night. He does reading with them, you know? and And so you just kind of, if we have chaotic, if I have a lot of things come up in my business and I've got podcast interviews and all these other things coming up or I'm writing something, then he's, I'm like, hey, babe, didn't get to this today. He's like, you know, I got it. You find your rhythm and there's freedom in that.
00:45:03
Speaker
I would love to ask you about your rhythm. What is your, what are your ah typical days look like? ha Okay. I am, an a to me, it all starts with my bedtime. Because again, the boundary with the simplicity within and that consistency, going back to all of that. So in order for me to be good the next day, I need to consistently go to bed at a time that's going to allow me to get up when I know is a good time to give me what I need for the following day. So it all starts with a bedtime. And most of the time I'm in bed by 9.30.
00:45:36
Speaker
And sometimes I read for a little bit. I like to actually been bed by nine 15 and read until nine 30 and then lights out and go to bed. That doesn't always happen. But by 10 o'clock, it's lights out. Like you don't, don't talk to me. And I don't care if we're on the couch watching a soccer game. It doesn't matter. I will fall asleep watching a movie. I will fall asleep because I look at the time and I'm like, I won't be happy tomorrow. I just close my eyes and go to sleep. Yeah. So it starts with that. That's my number one rhythm setter for the following day. I wake up between five 30 and six o'clock every day.
00:46:06
Speaker
and And I go straight outside and I just kind of take a few deep breaths. If the water the the sprinkler is not on, then I step in the grass and do some grounding and do some stretching, some breathing. But it's more of a good morning, Lord reset. Then I read my Bible and with my coffee, I spend but about an hour with Jesus, sometimes reading my devotional and not devotional, my my reading plan.
00:46:33
Speaker
um But it all starts with that that's what sets me up for a good day and then from then on it's a whole lot a whole lot of stuff because some days i'm recording for the podcast other days i'm meeting with clients i'm also a motherhood coach and so a lot of that sticking up a lot of my time and so i've got.
00:46:53
Speaker
Calls and i've got social media that i'm running we are about to do a mom conference my cute conference in man's field so if you're local reach out we'd love to get you information. And so and we've got ah our hands in a lot of different things i'm i have an assistant so it's talking to her making sure she knows what she's doing and clarifying and vision setting for the company.
00:47:15
Speaker
but then also my kids you know and and schooling and doing them and feeding them and cleaning up after them and instruction. So again, boundaries with the simplicity. What really deserves my time and energy today? What do I need to prioritize today? What can I involve my kids in today? And then that consistency, consistently chipping away at whatever's pulling for our attention that day or needing our attention that day.
00:47:44
Speaker
I love that. Would you say that and setting those priorities and boundaries is like, if there is someone who is also pursuing a career, I have lots of friends who actually work at homeschool. Will that be your biggest advice for them or do you have another advice for them? um I think my biggest advice is don't try to multitask because I have and you can't do it. So if you're going to do your office work, be all in.
00:48:15
Speaker
If you're switching gears to homeschooling, be all in because it's really hard. If you're in the middle of sending an email and your kids ask you a question, that is a time where they are learning and you tell them to hold on and hold on just a minute, hold on and hold on. yeah They're going to get tired of that. And you can't do good work. You can do work, but I don't know that it's going to be good work when it's consistently distracted. Yeah.
00:48:46
Speaker
So choose, what are you going to do? When are you going to do it? And decide, okay, for these next two hours, I'm going to do work, kids go play. And that's another benefit of instruction play. The kids don't come back and say, I'm bored, I'm bored. They don't need you. They're going to go play. They're going to do exactly that. Go play. Yeah. So you can go for two hours, go hard at it, and then switch over to kids. I love that. I think that's my biggest advice. and I love that. Rusty always tells me, you can't multitask. I'm like, yeah, I can.
00:49:14
Speaker
I cannot. And I was trying to tell you, I cannot. I can't. And I have ADHD. So my brain, I think I can multitask because my brain is constantly going. But I know in reality, I actually need to focus because I really can't multitask. Yeah. So is there anything that we didn't mention that you want to talk about? Gosh, I think that the biggest thing is that sums everything up is you are called, you listener, you mama, or you daddy, you are called by God to parent your child. So anytime you feel inadequate, James 1.5 says, if you need wisdom, ask your generous God and he's not
00:50:01
Speaker
gonna shame you for asking, I forget the word, but he's not going to tell you, like he's not going to shame you for asking him for wisdom. So if you're stuck and you don't know what to do, you just ask our generous God and he's going to give you the wisdom.
00:50:13
Speaker
And so I think it boils down to that. You, Brittany, are called to steward and parent and love and teach and disciple your four kids. and I've got my three. And so instead of us looking to the other side and wishing things were differently and thinking of all the things that we lack, it's more of, I have what I need and it's right here. And I'm going to water this garden right here so it can flourish into what God created them to be their purpose. That ultimately is what it's about. Once again, chill bums all up but ah in my neck. That's so good. That's so good. I know you mentioned some people earlier that you read their books and listened to them, but who is your homeschool hero? Who is somebody that you look up to and you're like,
00:51:08
Speaker
This is the person who sets the tone for and how I feel and envision and and all of that. I don't have one, I have several. Okay. Because I have certain people that ah I look up to in this area, i then I have certain people that I look up to in this area. You know, and so to me, it's more of a, again, I i don't have just like,
00:51:36
Speaker
this one person. You're a researcher. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I and again, to me, it all also goes back to serving your kid where they are, you know, and anyways, I trying to think of some names. So I've mentioned Mama Clarkson before. ah Jennifer Pappito, she's another one. I just recently read her book, The Sacred Wax. show I found it. ah You were the one that talked about it. yeah So I got it. Like you said, I finished it in like a day. It was so life giving. So I read that one. I all always love looking for the mamas that have older kids.
00:52:12
Speaker
Because I'm like, hey, you remember what this was like. And now you get to see the outcome of your sacrifice and of your day to day. And hearing them talk gives me the energy and the fuel to be like, wow, it's going to pay off. And, you know, it's it's going to be beautiful then as well. And as a beautiful chaos, poli or later it's going to be a beautiful friendship.
00:52:35
Speaker
And so got those wild and free people, I love my wild and free community because man, just let it go and let kids be kids, bring back childhood. And I think that that's a beautiful thing that's hardly talked about in research.
00:52:51
Speaker
It needs to be more. um ah I've got Kim John Payne, Dr. Kim John... No, he's a master, sorry, or EDD. Gosh, I don't know. But Kim John Payne, he talks about simplicity and parenting and beautiful way of challenging your thinking when it comes to that. Again, Bob Goff to me is is a staple. He's not a homeschooling dad, but he's a ah ah doer of love, of showing and love.
00:53:17
Speaker
And I can't help but bring that into my home. It's about like loving people wherever you go, otherwise you're failing. You're not obeying the greatest commandment, which is to love God and love people. To me, Bob Goff is a great pioneer to follow there. um And again, Joshua Becker, because it helps, again, not homeschooling dad, but helps you bring back back the simplicity that you really need in homeschooling. And so ah when it comes to homeschooling,
00:53:44
Speaker
It's again, a combination of a whole bunch of my friends and my friends. yes You know, they are, I look up to them a lot. I have a dear friend, Joelle. You might know her, Joelle Sullivan. She's a staple on redial when I need information. Love learning from you and what you share about Charlotte Mason and really encouraged to dive into books and bring the beauty of of literature into the home.
00:54:12
Speaker
I have another friend, Kelly French. She does it beautifully with with her kids. I was just with her yesterday. I know. I saw that. she's She's just the way that she really takes charge and and um values education in a solid structure for the home. and and so Anyways, i've got I've got a lot from published authors to my friends. Okay. That's awesome. I love that. I love that because It's, it it is, there's such a wide range. You don't have to learn just from somebody who homeschools. You know, I love yeah Bob Goff has been somebody that we've admired for years. And so, and read all of his books. So I love that. Thank you so much, Kelly, for yourre coming on and sharing all of your wisdom and knowledge and just so grateful for your voice and parenting and pursuing a home that is fruitful.
00:55:12
Speaker
that it's not just something that you don't just do home and because it's home. you do You try to do home well. And I just really admire you for the way you all the things that you share ah and just your energy as well. You're just such a positive energy and a positive light. You just exude the Lord's love and light so brightly. And I'm just grateful for you. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. Enjoy the talk, as always. Yes.