#37 What if corruption is also about social norms? – Claudia Baez Camargo (Basel Institute on Governance) 🇬🇧

I am delighted to welcome Claudia Baez Camargo, Director of Prevention, Research and Innovation at the Basel Institute on Governance. We start the conversation by discussingwhat led her to work on anti-corruption issues (0:45). Claudia is particularly interested in the role of social norms and informal practices (5:56). She explains why corruption is not a matter of culture but rather of social norms (13:33). She also outlines the reasons why citizens vote for corrupt individuals (23:03). Based on her research, Claudia is convinced that bottom-up approaches must be adopted if behaviour is to change effectively (25:48). She gives two encouraging examples in the Philippines and in Moldova (29:58). Withthe ongoing anti-corruption backlash, she tells us what keeps her motivated (33:27).

Books recommended by Claudia:

• Jean Boulton, The Dao of Complexity: Making Sense and Making Waves in Turbulent Times (2024)
• Alena Ledeneva, Russian Pendulum: Paradoxes,practices and patterns (2026)
• Greg Power, Inside the Political Mind: The Human Side of Politics and How It Shapes Development (2024)

Credits:

Sophie au pays des possibles is a podcast created, directed, and produced by Sophie Lemaître. This episode was recorded online in April 2026. Podcast illustration and music by Fabien Doulut. Editing by Manuel Perreux for the English version and Sophie Lemaître for the French version.