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#012 Murphy Quint - Cedar Ridge Distillery
658 Plays4 years ago
Cedar Ridge won ADI's 2017 distillery of the year and are well known for their approachable yet complex bourbon. As the director of operations, Murphy has an abundance of knowledge to share. Growing a mostly self-funded family business in a rural area (which operates both a distillery and a winery) presents a unique set of opportunities and risks. Murphy Talks us through his perspective on these issues as well as discussing the process and ingredients involved in making their world-class whiskey.
Cedar Ridge: https://cedarridgewhiskey.com/
Chase The Craft - Support: https://chasethecraft.com/support
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction & Sponsors
00:00:00
Speaker
How's it going chases? I hope you're having a kick-ass week. Today's podcast is brought to you by Adventures in Home Brewing. Go to homebrewing.org slash ctc to see their specials page. If you happen to be in the lower 48 you're eligible for most orders being free shipping over $50 and yes, they do actually have international shipping as well.
00:00:23
Speaker
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00:00:40
Speaker
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Introduction of Guest, Murphy Quint
00:00:56
Speaker
My guest today is Murphy Quint from Cedar Ridge Distillery in Iowa. Now, this distillery is mostly known for their approachable yet enjoyable and complex Iowa bourbon, but they also do produce single malt, rye and a bunch of other things as well.
00:01:13
Speaker
Murphy was insanely generous with the information he decided to share with us in this podcast. So happy listening, guys. We did talk about how Cedar Ridge got its start, including some pretty serious catastrophe in the early days and how they actually managed to turn that into a positive thing.
Cedar Ridge Distillery's History & Slipknot Collaboration
00:01:30
Speaker
We talked about their production methods, their ingredients, their different products, and interestingly, how the winery is incorporated into the business model as well.
00:01:40
Speaker
We also discuss Cedar Ridge's collaboration with the band Slipknot, which produces a few marketing gems for any craft distillery. Throughout this podcast I want you to keep in mind that Cedar Ridge was named ADI's Distillery of the Year in 2017, so these guys are no joke. Let's get stuck in with Murphy from Cedar Ridge.
00:02:10
Speaker
Murphy from Cedar Ridge Distillery in Iowa. Thank you so much for joining us, man. This is an absolute pleasure for me. Yeah, yeah. Thanks a lot for having me. I'm excited to be here.
00:02:21
Speaker
So we've got so much ground to cover. And we're just having a quick talk backstage. I think we're going to run out of time before we run out of content. I'm not entirely sure where to start with this. But you did mention that we could talk about the pains of going from a tiny little startup, relatively tiny, through to a fairly sizable operation. And I should have told you backstage, too. I'll record a little intro for the people to go ahead. So you don't have to go, yeah.
00:02:49
Speaker
don't know who you are and what Cedar Ridge is, but maybe let's start from the beginning and talk about how you started the distillery, how you got into it, and then the pain, the joy, the heartache, the strife of figuring out how to grow that thing.
00:03:03
Speaker
Absolutely. I think we could do an entire hour just on that. I think you're right. Yeah, so at Cedar Ridge, man, where to start? So when we started up, my parents actually started the company back in 2005. But prior to that, they bought some land where they planted some vineyards in 2002 and 2003.
00:03:28
Speaker
So early on, the business plan was to be much more wine-focused and then kind of differentiate our wine business by also having a still and making some brandies and some rums and stuff like that. Obviously, that's really flip-flopped if you fast-forward from today. So originally, we weren't
00:03:46
Speaker
on our property in Swisher, Iowa. That's where the vineyards are planted that I just referenced. We were actually located downtown Cedar Rapids in like a side room off of a wine and spirits distribution company called Ben's Beverage Depot.
00:04:02
Speaker
They had this little, little side room. It was almost like a mechanics garage, just incredibly small. And we did our entire basically business outside of the vineyards. Our entire business was in this little side room. And that includes our tasting area. We didn't even have a tasting room back then. Our barrel storage, our fermenters, any sort of tank we had, our bottling and labeling equipment was all in just this little room, I mean, that
00:04:31
Speaker
would be a fraction of the size of our current winery building right now. So just incredibly small. And kind of thinking back on it, it was a ton of fun back then. Early on, it was actually just my cousin and I. We were the first two employees at Cedar Ridge, other than my parents. And he was the production manager, and I was his high school and college assistant.
00:04:53
Speaker
Oh wow. I started back then when I was 16 years old and my cousin Elliot was 18, 19. It was just the two of us doing everything. He'd kind of make everything and I do the seller work and I do a lot of the bottling and labeling and boxing and all that stuff and he would kind of do the fun fermentation and distillation and stuff like that.
00:05:15
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, we were, I mean, very, very, very small. A lot of the people that are currently working at modern day Cedar Ridge truly have no idea how small we actually were. And, you know, so maybe, maybe this podcast will get more.
00:05:29
Speaker
But yeah, over time, I mean, you know, one thing led to another and we added another, you know, fermenter here, we added some more barrels there and we quickly, I mean, had that room so incredibly packed that anytime we were going to bottle anything or produce anything, we actually had to empty the entire room out into the parking lot so that we can... Oh, wow.
00:05:52
Speaker
And then we'd move everything back into the room at the end of the day, so just wildly inefficient.
Challenges: The 2008 Flood & Rebuilding
00:05:57
Speaker
But then actually in 2008, a huge flood just devastated many parts of Iowa and the Midwest really, but specifically downtown Cedar Rapids just got hammered by this flood. And the building that we were in actually took on about four and a half feet of water. All of our fermenters were knocked over.
00:06:16
Speaker
All of our barrels were knocked over and ruined. When it was devastated, actually right before we kind of abandoned ship that day, my dad, Jeff, filled up only still with water so that it wouldn't actually float and get picked up and fall over. And that might have even saved the business because that would have been a very expensive loss there. But anyway, we got devastated by this flood and
00:06:41
Speaker
We were kind of, you know, we were at a crossroads. It's like, are we just done with the Cedar Ridge thing? Are we going to continue and open back up? I wasn't too involved in those decisions at the time. That was much more in my parents. But I remember, you know, just that was a very quiet time for the family. And there was a lot of uncertainty there.
00:06:59
Speaker
And anyway, they decided to kind of not only open Cedar Ridge back up, but really go all in this time and put all their eggs in this one basket. And that's when they decided, hey, we've got these vineyards out in Swisher. This is where we've kind of intended to build a building one day. So let's just go ahead and make that investment now. So like I said, they really went all in instead of opening in this very small room in downtown Cedar Rapids.
00:07:25
Speaker
They built a new building on top of a hill that could not be flooded. And that became basically the beginning of the new Cedar Ridge. At that point in time, it was one production floor in a tasting room.
00:07:43
Speaker
So I mean, it was a major upgrade from where we were coming from, but it's actually still very small compared to where we're at now.
Growth & Expansion of Cedar Ridge
00:07:52
Speaker
Like I said, back in 2009, 2010, when we opened up again out in Swisher, it was just that one production floor in Tasing Room. Now, if you fast forward to today, we've got a Tasing Room, an event center, kind of a second smaller event center. We've got a winery. We've got a still house.
00:08:11
Speaker
And we're currently constructing our eighth barrel shed. So we've actually what we refer to as a campus now. And so, yeah, you know, to kind of stop rambling about it, I mean, we went from just this one very small room with two really young employees, one of which was, you know, over a lot of the time and
00:08:33
Speaker
You know, and now we've got, like I said, the campus that I just referred to, we've got over 50 employees, half of which are full-time, and you know, cranking out wines and whiskeys and other spirits as fast as we possibly can while taking over 100,000 visitors through our taste room every single year. So yeah, it's been wild. There's been a lot of growing pains along the way, many of which
00:08:59
Speaker
come down to space, you know, you always, you always run out of space before you, you build new space. So we got a little space and that quickly fills up. Then it's like, ah, we need more space. We need more space. So that, that happens basically every single year. Then we, we put up a new building and you get a little room to breathe. And then it, then it happens again. So yeah, it's, it's been, it's been a wild ride over the last 10, 15 years. That's for sure. Yeah, totally, man. So what, what's your capacity now? And I'm in barrels, I guess is the easiest way to
00:09:29
Speaker
So currently in action right now we're holding
00:09:33
Speaker
In our barrel inventory, we've got about 3,500 barrels that are sitting down currently. Every single month we put about 150 more away, but then we'll empty some too. 150 more away, we'll empty some too. So we're actually, we're producing significantly more than we're selling because we want to keep laying more down and increasing our age and all that. But yeah, right now we just recently crossed the 3,500 barrel number and that is,
00:10:01
Speaker
Primarily gonna be bourbon and about 98% of it is whiskey in general. There's a little bit of rum in there, a little bit of brandy in there. We're pretty much heads down on whiskey. That's awesome, man. I wasn't planning on talking about this, but it's come up and it's interesting. So both with the production versus how much you're selling and with expansion of the physical assets, the buildings, the space, the everything, still size.
00:10:29
Speaker
dude, what is like, that's terrifying for a small to medium sized business to go in, you know, to take that next step. And there's always the risk of overexpansion and all those other things. So do you want to sort of talk through the thought process for the business in terms of deciding, you know, do we double down on what we're doing to provide more for the future? Or do we start taking a profit now to get
00:10:53
Speaker
you know into the black because he constantly chasing the dragon on you if you just keep exactly you know and it's it's you're always putting away more and more inventory and not selling it so it you know it's like like you said it's like do we want to level out and turn a profit or do we want to keep doubling down but more away more away more away at what point
00:11:11
Speaker
do we want to level out and turn profits because we're a business and that's obviously one of our ultimate goals. But we have a different style of doing things at Cedar Ridge. One thing that we're very proud of is that we've been a privately owned company. Jeff and Laurie, until very recently, we actually took a private investor, just one single person, not like a big company or anything, but
00:11:34
Speaker
Jeff and Lori, my parents, had been funding this operation since the very beginning on their own. And that creates a lot of difficulty, right? When they're considering their options and potentially expanding and putting more money into it, that means that money is coming out of their bank account. It's not like we have this fund where we can just buy everything that we're dreaming of. So we have a tendency to buy things.
00:12:00
Speaker
when we've needed them for a long time like it's okay if we decide we need something today let's see if we still need it one year from now or a year and a half from now and then we'll know that we actually need it and then we might actually make that investment we buy things when
00:12:15
Speaker
I guess when it makes the perfect sense financially to do so Jeff is a CFO by background He's been a CPA since college and so he's got a lot of experience on that side of things So he's very good about the numbers and the financial And he takes that very seriously But you know one thing that has led to is kind of our own style at Cedar Ridge because we've been privately owned We've very much thrown things together When we can and you know
00:12:45
Speaker
in a cost-effective way. And when I say that, I mean, basically, if you come to Reseda Ridge, it's not going to necessarily make perfect sense how everything's laid out. We didn't have this, you know, $100 million fund that we could just build this perfect state-of-the-art distillery with. We did it piece by piece, and we bought things when we needed them. And when you do it that way, things
00:13:09
Speaker
Things look like they've been put together piece by piece so you know it might not always make sense Like there's a still over in this corner, but the other stills over there. Why aren't they right now? It gets a little wacky like that But it's also kind of our style and our mentality where this distillery out in Iowa or a bunch of farm boys and farm girls and that's that's kind of the Iowan or Midwestern way is to you know
00:13:31
Speaker
You get things when you need them and you kind of maintain them and operate them on your own. If something breaks down, you try to fix it. You know, you put things where they go or not or not.
00:13:41
Speaker
You know, all a bunch of fancy people trying to look fancy about being functional and efficient, and that's kind of what we've become over time. That's cool, man. So you've got the stills almost in kiddie corners across from each other, I'm assuming. What sort of still are you running? Let's talk geekery on the equipment for a second. Yeah, some still talk here. So we've got four different stills, and yeah, none of them are right next to each other. You'd think that they would be right by each other,
00:14:09
Speaker
Like I said, when you have the funds to add a still, you do so, and you put it wherever you've got the space to add one. Then they're not easy to move, funnily enough. Exactly. Once you put a still in, it's going to be there. It's not moving around. Remind me to come back to that because we had an instance with that recently that I want to talk about. We have four stills, all of which are Carl, formerly Christian Carl, I believe, but about five, 10 years ago, they rebranded to Carl.
00:14:38
Speaker
And we're incredibly brand loyal to them. We have never had a single problem with one of our Carl Stills, and so we've continued to buy them. And I will say that
00:14:51
Speaker
For a while, I did work at a distillery called Straney Hands, which maybe I'll touch on at some point. Yeah, yeah, it was an amazing experience. And they had been dome stills, which were beautiful to operate as well. So I do have a spot in my heart for been dome as well. But at Cedar Ridge, we're loyal to Carl and we've got four of them.
00:15:10
Speaker
So we've got, let's see, our biggest one is an 800 gallon pot still with a swan neck. And that's the one that I've got a story about that I'll tell. The biggest one. Yeah. And so that's currently our alpha still that it does our stripping run, our first distillation, whatever you want to call it.
00:15:32
Speaker
We've got another still that is a 200 gallon Carl still it's another pot still Swan next style Which is our our modern-day finishing still which we just recently brought online Then you get over to our third Carl still which is a 100 gallon hybrid still it
00:15:51
Speaker
can operate the same as basically the other ones that we have. But it's fractioned out into different sections so that you can use columns if you want. You can go from the pot straight to the condenser if you want. You can really drive it to produce whatever you want to produce. And we have that because we make things like brandy and rum and vodka. So we need to do some column work. And that's why that one's fractioned out.
00:16:14
Speaker
And then our fourth still, oh man, I can't even remember how many gallons it is at this time. It's gotta be like 20 to 25. I mean, it's incredibly small. And this was our first ever still, our first. Oh. And yeah, we got it back in 2005.
00:16:30
Speaker
And it's so small that there's really, I mean, nothing that we can do with it. We've talked about maybe doing some experimental or some pilot stuff with it in the near future. But right now it's just kind of sitting on the floor more as a kind of a sentimental piece. This is what got us started. It was actually the first film in the state of Iowa since prohibition. So it has a special spot in our hearts, I guess, and that's why we display it, but we don't currently use it.
00:16:54
Speaker
Yeah, four skills, all Carl. And we like to think that we're probably done buying skills. We've got, you know, every time you get a new still,
00:17:04
Speaker
if it's bigger at least, you also have to get more fermenters and then you need a bigger mash ton in order to fill those fermenters. And it kind of is a chain reaction. So we just went to a major expansion where we got that 800 gallon pot sill I just referred to. And when we did that, we had to buy twice as many fermenters and we had to get a second mash ton in order to make it fully functional. So take a quick sip here.
00:17:28
Speaker
Yeah, I'm actually going to pour a drink too. For those that are listening at home, it's 8.30 in the morning. But this is an opportunity for me to have a drink.
Learning from Mistakes: Setting Up a Large Still
00:17:39
Speaker
And I actually have a bottle of your Cedar Ridge, Iowa bourbon whiskey. We'll talk about that a little bit later on. But yeah, why not, Jesse? Join in. Absolutely. And cheers to you. So yeah, talking about that 800 gallon pot still, I mentioned that they're hard to move and all that stuff.
00:17:58
Speaker
So when the stills show up, first of all, they show up in pieces and really with like no directions or manual or anything like that. And I'm sure that you can hire someone from the manufacturer to come over and set it up. But like I said, we're very cost effective company. And you know, kind of our mentality is, you know, you do it yourself.
00:18:21
Speaker
And so, yeah, this thing came up in pieces and a guy named Pete, who was our former head brewer and recently moved to a different brewery out in Michigan. He was an absolute rock star for us, was an amazing worker. He and I and a couple other guys spent
00:18:38
Speaker
about a month setting this thing up and you know One I'll say that you learn a lot about a piece of a piece of equipment when you set it up yourself You know the in outs of it Whereas if it just shows up fully intact I mean, you know how to turn it off and turn it on and adjust the settings But you really get to see the interior of it and actually you just your brain understands how this thing works when you set it up So that was a great experience and had a lot of fun doing that with Pete but
00:19:06
Speaker
we finally got this thing pretty much erected and set up and all we had to do was set the the swan neck on top of the pot that we had we had those pieces assembled just separately and so we went to set the swan neck on top of the pot and it didn't fit in the building uh it it hit the roof
00:19:27
Speaker
I mean, so we've got this huge piece of equipment that we've spent a ton of time on setting up. And obviously, a sizable investment still is always one of the most sizable investments you'll make at a distillery. And it doesn't fit in our room. And obviously, it's not like we have a different room that we can just go put this thing in. So we had a little measurement mishap. And we mismeasured somehow by like six inches. I don't know if it was us or the medium-sized who mismeasured it.
00:19:57
Speaker
Yeah, long story short, we had to put about a $15,000 hole in the ground so that we could fit this thing in the room. So yeah, if you walk through all of our stills, you'll get to the 800 gallon pot still. And its legs are basically underground about two feet so that this thing can even fit in the room. So you mentioned that they're hard to move and hard to operate. So I had to tell that story because, yeah, it was incredibly difficult to not only get that thing set up, but then to get it in the hole and
00:20:26
Speaker
You know, get it, get it where it is currently. Yeah, it's, it's surprisingly not uncommon for this to happen. Like I've talked to multiple people that have had very, very, you know, Oh crap, we're cutting six inches off this column and yeah.
00:20:42
Speaker
and hacking it back together, or we're knocking a hole in the roof and building an extension. That's the first time I've heard someone dig a hole. I can't remember why. We did consider both options of going underground or expanding the roof, basically, and just making kind of a cutout on the roof that sticks up. But there was something there. I don't know if there was some sort of piping above it or something, but we couldn't go through the roof for one reason or another. And so our only option was to go down.
00:21:11
Speaker
You know, it worked out, it worked out. And while it was a really frustrating couple of months there, you know, it seems like the frustrating things are always really fun to look back on. And they create a lot of laughs and a lot of stories that you can talk about later. And that is certainly the case for this. And in that point in time, it was a rough couple of months, but now it's fun to laugh about and fun to talk about.
00:21:34
Speaker
Yeah, once you push through and you get through to a result in the grand scheme of things, an extra month is, in 10 years' time, what's a month of operation? It's not great at the time, but it gives you something interesting to talk about. It's not great, I wouldn't call it marketing, but it's great interest. That's a story that I'm not going to forget now and I'm going to forever attach that to your brand.
00:22:02
Speaker
There's some content there. As any business knows, especially a winery and distillery, creating their own brands though, you have to have content. You have to have something to talk about with your...
00:22:16
Speaker
Your customers, future consumers, they want to hear these stories. They make a distillery or a winery real as opposed to just being another distillery. It's something that people can relate to and think about. It certainly creates great content, but man, it was a lot of work to create that content. Yeah. I'm stepping on this bourbon now. Yeah. It's classy, dude. It's really nice.
00:22:43
Speaker
I found out from you since I bought this bottle that this is essentially a discontinued product. Yeah, it is. So yeah, what you've got there is our flagship Iowa bourbon whiskey.
00:22:55
Speaker
obviously being from the state of Iowa, we specialize in bourbon because in Iowa, we grow corn. That's what Iowans do. Iowa actually grows more corn than almost every country does on the planet. So that's what's going on here. And we wanted to make a whiskey out of Iowa corn. Anyway, yeah, we did recently kind of give our packaging a facelift. So we did improve our packaging, or at least we feel it was an improvement.
00:23:20
Speaker
And while we did it, we did increase our proof as well. So what you're having there is our 80 proof expression. Our current whiskey on the market is at 86 proof. So we did make a couple of tweaks there. And I like to think that you will notice a difference in it. I'm sure you know, as you're an expert in this, that a couple of proof points does make a big difference on the palate. So you can get different flavors and different aromas from just a couple of proof points difference. But
00:23:47
Speaker
yeah we're very pleased with the change that we made not only to the whiskey but to the packaging itself so i'll uh i'll make sure that you've got a bottle in the mail so that you can do a little comparison side by side it'll be very interesting to do it side by side so you've tried to keep the the uh flavor profile
00:24:04
Speaker
pretty similar, but you've just bumped the proof up. And so the intensity of it up a little bit. Is that the idea? You know, we're not, we're not trying to release a different whiskey by any means. We can be consistent with what we've had on market the whole time. Just, you know,
00:24:20
Speaker
So everything comes out of the barrel at about 120 proof. And so when you cut it down to a bottle proof, which in the case that you're experiencing right now, that is 80 proof, what you do is you dilute with a water source and we use reverse osmosis water to take it from 120 proof down to 80.
00:24:38
Speaker
Well, now that we're going from 120 proof down to 86, we're just diluting it less. And therefore, certain notes will be a little bit less muted, essentially. It's the exact same mash bill, exact same whiskey, aged the exact same way. We're just diluting it less during that cutting process pre-bottling. So like I said, there'll just be some notes in there that are a little bit more present, a little bit more noticeable. And yeah, otherwise it's the same old whiskey.
00:25:05
Speaker
So what are the notes that you're trying to accentuate a little bit more with those few extra points? And is that was that a conscious decision based on a change in the market or is it just an improve, you know, like an incremental improvement from your point of view?
00:25:21
Speaker
Great question. Surprisingly enough, no one's ever asked me that, so I appreciate the question. I honestly think it was both. One, I do feel that the whiskey is significantly better, a few proof points higher. As a matter of fact, we've had a few people
00:25:39
Speaker
say that our whiskey is a cask strength whiskey and should be served closer to 115, which I don't necessarily disagree with it. It is very good at cask strength. Um, so yeah, taking it up a few proof points did make a better whiskey in my opinion, but there was obviously a lot of market research and a lot of market influence in that decision. Um, the consumers these days are absolutely moving away from an 80 proof and going slightly higher, at least the consumers that we're targeting, you know, we want,
00:26:08
Speaker
the whiskey geeks and aficionados to be appreciating Cedar Ridge, not just people who are going to mix it with this or that. Not that there's anything wrong with mixing with Coke or whatever you want to mix with, but what we're targeting is people who are going to enjoy it either in a nice cocktail or neat or with one rock, however you want it.
00:26:29
Speaker
But we want those flavors to be present. We don't want it to be too diluted or anything like that. So anyway, the consumers are moving to a higher proof and we wanted to respond to that and offer a higher proof for them with our flagship product. So that's what we were after. Yeah, I mean, this is absolutely like I said, it's great. It's interesting because it's very much a traditional bourbon profile.
00:26:56
Speaker
But there's something different to it, and I can't quite put my finger on it. I'm not a huge bourbon drinker, to be honest. I mean, we don't get a lot of it at a decent price point here in New Zealand, so I tend to drink scotch. But it does have a lot of the... It's interesting, actually. It's got a lot of cherry and a lot of vanilla, but not a huge amount of the barrel candy, if that makes sense. Like, it's not really big and sweet and chewy.
00:27:25
Speaker
Absolutely. And so it finishes almost more like a scotch in some ways. Absolutely doesn't I'm glad you mentioned that. So one thing that we're going for, not only with our bourbon, but with all of our all the whiskies that we produce, we're going for an approachable
00:27:39
Speaker
flavor profile so we want the flavor to be there you know we want we don't want this to be completely muted or soft or anything like that but we don't want it to be aggressive or a slap in the mouth we want it to be nice easy sip and whiskey that is not too aggressive for anyone and so we do a few things that contribute to that
00:27:58
Speaker
And I'll dive into that here. But that might be what you're picking up is just a bit more subtle. It's not as bold as other bourbons that you've probably tasted in the past. It's refreshing to have that cherry and vanilla without the... Yeah, it's subtle and balanced, I guess, in a lot of ways. And I imagine you move away from that a little bit with the higher proof, right? Which is probably... Yeah, yeah. Everything's a little bit stronger.
00:28:25
Speaker
Yep. And that was a concern during that process. Hey, if we're shooting for and marketing an approachable whiskey, as we raise the proof, is that going to be an issue? Is that going to contradict what we're doing? And that hasn't happened. As a matter of fact, I would even say that it could be at 92 or 96 without going too far in that direction. So
00:28:48
Speaker
It's not always just the proof that's going to make that impact, but also the process behind it. And we do a few things that do create that approachable flavor profile. One, we distill to a slightly higher proof than I think most people probably do. We distill in the upper 140s close to 150.
00:29:09
Speaker
whereas a lot of other distilleries might be upper 130s. And when you do that, it's gonna create that softer whiskey or a slightly more approachable one that we're going for it, because it takes just a little bit more characteristic and flavor out of the final spirit.
00:29:24
Speaker
And two, the way that we age our product is going to be probably the most impactful in that sense. And that's, we age everything outdoors in a non-climate controlled environment. And when I say outdoors, some of them are literally outside in a chain linked fence, just kind of under a roof. They kind of surrounding our buildings,
00:29:44
Speaker
for a kind of decoration, there's basically barrels surrounding all of our buildings and there's chain link fence, protecting them for kind of a security standpoint. But they are under a roof so that snow and stuff doesn't end up falling on the barrels. But the clear majority of the barrels, and I mean like 90% of them, are in non-climate controlled sheds. We call them barrel sheds. There's really no insulation. There's no humidity being pumped into the room.
00:30:09
Speaker
We're not controlling the temperature. And what we're going for is we want to let mother nature have an impact on the aging process. So in Iowa, not only do we get crazy fluctuations in temperature and climate on a seasonal basis, but even on a daily basis. I mean, think in the middle of July here, during the day, it might hit
00:30:28
Speaker
95 to 100 degrees, and then at night it might sink down to 50 or 60 degrees. And that swing causes a lot of action to happen inside the barrels, and we want to embrace that. So that's why we're not climate controlling. As the barrels get warmer, and the whiskey inside them gets warmer, everything starts to expand. The wood becomes more porous, the liquid is more likely to seep into that wood, and then at night, or even on a seasonal basis during the winter,
00:30:55
Speaker
that wood starts to contract and it squeezes the whiskey back out and into the center of the barrel. So we get a lot of movement in and out of that wood that we really want to embrace. Now, a con to that whole thing is that we lose a lot more to evaporation and leakage than the industry average.
00:31:12
Speaker
because we're embracing so much expansion and contraction, we will lose more to evaporation and leakage. Like I said, we lose about 20% of every single barrel we put away, whereas the industry enters about 12% to 14%. So it's just another thing that it's another trade off.
00:31:29
Speaker
we're willing to take that hit on volume if it produces the whiskey that we want to produce and we feel that it does. A lot of the more volatile components of that whiskey will evaporate out first and so it leaves us with a little bit more approachable flavor profile. So from a financial standpoint, it's another thing that's kind of hard to stomach to lose 20% of all your inventory due to aging.
00:31:54
Speaker
And like I said, my, you know, my dad is an accountant by background. And so I'm sure that one's always tough for him. But from a flavor standpoint, it gives us exactly what we're going for. Yeah, gravy. So does that, does those temperature swings and movement in and out of the wood, does that sort of reduce your total time in the barrel significantly as well?
00:32:14
Speaker
I guess I don't know about that. As far as expediting the aging process, I don't really know. In the sense that it gets a lot of movement inside of that barrel, and we might achieve that faster than other regions or other climates, I would say that that's probably true. But as far as expediting the aging process goes, that's a touchy subject that's hard to really
00:32:43
Speaker
to really another you know no one really knows what's going on inside the barrel for sure i mean everyone's got their theory and kind of gut instinct so i mean i guess i wouldn't say it really expedites the process as much as it it gives us kind of a trademark flavor profile yeah so i think what you're touching on is the idea of um aging versus wooding
00:33:07
Speaker
You can kind of, you can get a lot of wood flavor into a spirit as fast as you want it with contact area and heat and all that sort of stuff. But that doesn't necessarily mean that it's quote unquote aged. You know, there's two different processes going on there. I guess what I was asking is, are you limited with the amount of time that you can keep the spirit in the barrel before it gets overly influenced by the wood?
00:33:34
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that probably is the case. We haven't really gotten there yet. So we're aging our whiskeys, staying focused on the stuff that's going to New American Oak because obviously stuff that's going into used casks is very different. Our rye and our bourbon and stuff that goes into New American Oak.
Local Ingredients: The Use of Iowa-Grown Corn
00:33:54
Speaker
we're aging that anywhere from three to six and a half years, depending on what it is. And we haven't found that spot yet where it's like it's over-oaked, it's over-wooded, over-influenced by those components. So we haven't found that spot yet. However, my theory is that if we wanted to do something for
00:34:17
Speaker
a 10-year, a 12-year, a 15-year, we might have to change our distillation process a little bit in advance before we shoot for that because I think otherwise it probably will become over-oaked and over-influenced by the wood unless we change that process in advance. Yeah, Groovy. So for those of you that don't know, there is something special about this distillery in that
00:34:43
Speaker
You've got your hands in and control over more of the process in some ways than a lot of other people because you're growing corn yourself, right? And you have the winery as well. So maybe let's start at the beginning and talk about the corn first and see what sort of advantages and I have to imagine headaches that provides for you.
00:35:08
Speaker
Are you growing different types of corn? Are you messing with different varietals? Yeah, great question. We do grow our own corn for our own bourbon and that's something that we've always been very, very excited about, like I said.
00:35:24
Speaker
We're in Iowa where we we grow a ton of corn here and in addition to that a lot of the people that came out and supported us early on and have allowed us to get where we're at as far as our success goes a lot of those people are Iowans so it would be a real a real Disrespectful move on our part in my opinion if we were using corn from a different state while all these Iowans are supporting us You know we want to show the love back to them
00:35:48
Speaker
So we're obviously very proud to use Iowa corn. And yeah, in this case, my grandpa does grow it out in Winthrop, Iowa. So it is our own family farm. Like I said, my grandparents actually own it on my mom's side. So yeah, it's the farm that I would go to every single summer when I was growing up and we were on summer break. So very familiar with the property and everything.
00:36:10
Speaker
Yeah, it's a nice added element to our product. It's just an additional step that we have control over. And from a quality control standpoint, the more that you have your eyes on and your hands on, the more confident you can be that you're producing a quality product. So it certainly does that for us. It's something that we don't want to move away from, and we're very proud of it. As far as growing different types of corn, that's not something that we've experimented yet with at this point in time.
00:36:38
Speaker
We grow standard yellow number two corn, yellow corn number two, and that's what's very popular in the state of Iowa. I can't imagine us moving away from that on a large scale, but I can imagine us experimenting with some some pilot batches or some, you know, maybe putting three or four barrels of a different type of way. But our standard products will almost certainly use yellow corn number two for the foreseeable future.
00:37:05
Speaker
Cool. I mean, it's an interesting thing because I know from talking to people like the guys from Ironroot who are using, you know, Bloody Butcher and Purple and Blue and all sorts of crazy things, a lot of the stuff they do, they're using like 3% or 5% of a specialty corn in a batch and it has a really
00:37:24
Speaker
big impact. So I guess it doesn't need to be a huge volume of corn. But once again, it's not something you want to, from both from the farm perspective and from the distillery perspective, it's not something you just want to commit to. You need to take it through steps here. Yeah, it's hard to make a sizable change to a product or a process once you get rolling. So it would be difficult to do that. However, I mean, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't interested in doing like you described, you know,
00:37:51
Speaker
Uh for an experimental batch or something just a couple percent here a couple percent there Um, I think it's I think it's belcones who does uh, the the blue corn bourbon, which is something that is very neat Yeah, yeah, they do some really cool stuff down there. I love those guys Um, yeah, so I I can see us experimenting with it down the road But for our our flagship products, you know, we'll continue to use the same ingredients because we don't we don't want to shock the system
00:38:16
Speaker
Yeah, totally. You've got a flavor profile you're working to. And it's working, man. It's kicking ass and taking names. So why fix what ain't broke? Exactly. We should think so. Yeah. So I think let's move on to the winery side of things. This is fascinating to me, dude. OK, so first of all, the opportunity here to me is absolutely palpable in things that you can cross back and forth.
00:38:45
Speaker
But then on the flip side of it, the restrictions you have in America on what you can call bourbon, what you can call whiskey, and especially from the barrel point of view, in some ways you've got your hands tied. So do you want to kind of talk about what you are doing and then perhaps what you would like to do if the TTB wasn't a thing?
00:39:07
Speaker
Absolutely.
Synergies: Winery and Distillery Advantages
00:39:09
Speaker
First of all, we are both a winery and distillery. That brings with it a number of advantages and disadvantages. We can touch on the disadvantages in a second, but the advantages are endless. There is so much possibility and potential when you have both of those businesses to play off one of another to share barrels back and forth, which we do.
00:39:33
Speaker
It is really advantageous. And I honestly don't understand why there's not more winery distilleries in the United States. We're actually, we're a handful of them here. I can't speak for other countries. I, you know, maybe it's more prevalent in other areas, but here, there's not many of them. And I guess maybe it's a financial thing or, you know, maybe it's a legal thing. I know some states, it's probably not even allowed to be both. That is pretty regulated.
00:39:59
Speaker
But I think more people should try it out because there are a lot of advantages. And so getting on the subject of what we do, we have the advantage of having a lot of barrels that we can share back and forth. Now you mentioned for things like bourbon and rye, legally that has to be new American oak every single time. So we cannot, we can't just take an axe wine cask and throw new make bourbon into it.
00:40:23
Speaker
and then let that age for a few years and call that bourbon. Legally, that's not bourbon by law. That would technically be whiskey that is just made with a corn mash. So there are some rules to it, but
00:40:34
Speaker
where it gets really creative and where it gets really advantageous, in my opinion, is in the world of single malt. And that, even though we're a bourbon distillery, I'm a single malt guy all the way. That's kind of been my background from my time at Strandahan's all the way to my time at Cedar Ridge now, where we're getting ready to release an American single malt whiskey. Oh, awesome. Which we'll talk about here in a second, because I'm just jazzed about it. Very excited. But in single malt,
00:41:03
Speaker
the way that we do it at least is we start everything out in a traditional American oak whiskey cask, but then we transfer everything over into unique finishing casks. After about two to three years of aging in that initial cask, we'll transfer it to its finishing cask. And that's where those X wine barrels come in handy. I mean, we've got X red wine, X white wine, X port, then you get
00:41:26
Speaker
our distillery side of things, we've got X rum, X brandy, and we can use all these X casks to finish our single malt out in. And after about two to three more years of aging, we'll actually marry it all together in a SoleraVet to finish that single malt out. And like I said, we'll talk more about the single malt in a second, but I just wanted to kind of give an example of how useful those wine casks can be
00:41:51
Speaker
when aging our single malt whiskey and vice versa as well. We've got one red wine that we actually age in our ex bourbon casks that is one of our top selling products. Oh, well.
00:42:03
Speaker
Yeah, so it's a ton of fun to have those barrels at our disposal and to be able to get creative and artistic with them, taking a whiskey barrel and finishing wine in it, taking a wine barrel and finishing whiskey in it. It's all really great to work with. And so our winemaker is a guy named Kent Faulker, who does a fabulous job for us. He makes just tremendous Iowa wines. He's actually gaining a lot of recognition around here.
00:42:27
Speaker
and then you know there's the distillery guys who you know we've got a team of about seven or eight people and we we absolutely geek out every time he empties his wine barrels or every time we empty our whiskey barrels you know because it's just like it's just opportunity it's the opportunity to get creative
00:42:44
Speaker
and to have some fun because no one wants to just make the same product all day. No artist wants to just sit here and paint the same picture every day. When you've got these tools at your disposal, these barrels that represent opportunity to get creative, it's always very exciting for the team. Totally. Not only that, it's just making use of what you've got. You can use the barrel. If you're just a bourbon distillery,
00:43:13
Speaker
You buy a barrel, you use it once, it's worth nothing to you. You get rid of it. You get a few bucks selling it onto someone else who's going to make single malt or whatever. I have to imagine that you can go from bourbon to wine to port to single malt, back to wine. You can get so much more use out of a single barrel or within the same organization. Yeah, that's exactly right. There's kind of a carousel of barrel movement.
00:43:41
Speaker
You know, for some of them, like for instance, we produce a significant amount more bourbon than we do anything else. So it's not like we can even reuse all of our barrels because we empty so many more bourbon barrels than we fill of anything else that there is leftovers to do some stuff with. And a lot of the times we'll actually sell those to local breweries and do collaboration projects with them for barrel aged beers and stuff like that. But obviously a good number of them.
00:44:09
Speaker
When we empty a bourbon barrel, like we just talked about, we can go ahead and age some of our red wine in it to finish out for a special product. We can age our dark rum in an ex-bourbon barrel. We can age single malt in an ex-bourbon barrel. So it does have a lot of movement after we empty the bourbon out of the initial cask. So there's a lot of opportunity there, and there's a lot of room for creativity, and that's what we love at Cedar Ridge.
00:44:37
Speaker
Yeah, that's very, very cool. Are there certain flavors that you're looking from, specifically from the different types of, you know, I'm thinking from a distilling point of view here, the red wine, the white wine and the, I guess the fortified wines, for want of a better word. Are there specific flavor profiles you're looking to get from each of those
00:44:59
Speaker
things or is it more a, a crime of opportunity? You see what the barrel was like when it, you know, when the wine came out of it and then you figure out what you're going to do with it afterwards. Yeah, it can certainly be both. Um, you know, there, there, there's definitely going to be variants and like, like I keep saying, there's a lot of opportunity there to get creative, but, um, yeah, there, there is also a lot of strategy there. And so kind of getting back to the American single mall that I was just talking about, we, we, we age everything in the initial cask.
00:45:29
Speaker
for the first two to three years. Then we age it in its finishing cask for another two to three years, which I already listed what those finishing casks can be. And then everything gets married together in a giant solar of that. It's basically a marrying tank that holds all of these different single malts together to finish out. And it creates a very complex product while still staying true to our approachable flavor profile. So
00:45:54
Speaker
Yes, they're getting back to what your question was, you know, there are certain notes that we're going for. And when we fill our Solera Vat with single malt, different types of single malt,
00:46:04
Speaker
we have different categories. And one category will be ex-wine casks single malt. There's also ex-rum casks single malt. There's different oaks. There's peat. There's a couple other categories that we have.
Upcoming Releases: American Single Malt & Solera Process
00:46:17
Speaker
And so we'll strategically take barrels from these different categories and bundle them together every time we fill our Solara. So say we'll take 2x wine, 2x brandy, 2x rum,
00:46:30
Speaker
one Hungarian oak, one American oak, and then a peat, and that'll be a fill that we'll add to our Solera Vat. So yes, you know, those those ex wine casks, there are certain notes that they're going to provide to our finished product in that Solera Vat, and that's why we're strategically taking a set number of them every time we fill our Solera Vat. So
00:46:49
Speaker
Yeah, every once-used cask is going to provide something different. And wine's definitely got its area. Obviously, different oaks are going to have very different influences. One thing that I've been studying a lot lately is ex-brandy casks. Ex-brandy cask single malt is beautiful. And I know that there's some available on the market, obviously, but it's not that common, at least. Yeah, I understand that.
00:47:18
Speaker
Sorry, I missed you there. Carry on. Well, it can provide a lot of fruit forward notes and tropical fruits, a lot of like banana and mango. And yeah, X brandy is something that I'm really into right now. X brandy finished single malt. Yeah, yeah. That's something I've always wondered why these not
00:47:39
Speaker
more of it. Maybe it's just not traditionally available so much to Scotland, I guess is perhaps why it wasn't popular. That's right. I have no idea, but I'm, you know, considering single mall obviously does come from, you know, does originate over in Scotland and Ireland. Yeah, maybe there wasn't a lot of brandy being produced there when things got going. I have no idea, but
00:48:03
Speaker
In regions where it is being produced and where whiskey is also being produced. I think there's a huge opportunity for more Brandy cast finished single malt
00:48:12
Speaker
Yeah, totally. I mean, I'm sitting down here on the arts end of the world in New Zealand, and it's bizarre to me. New Zealand, here in New Zealand, home distilling is 100% legal for personal use, which is why I get to do what I'm doing, right? And yet the craft distilling movement here in New Zealand is only just starting to really take off. And it's much more focused on gin and
00:48:33
Speaker
vodka and, you know, I guess sort of mixing drinks and some novelty stuff, which is, you know, you're going to learn to expect that in a relatively new craft region. But the crazy thing is, man, New Zealand's known worldwide for its wine. And I'm struggling to understand why we're not known worldwide for brandy, for grubber, for anything that comes from
00:48:58
Speaker
you know, grapes that can piggyback off that wine industry and work with it for, you know, both for materials and logistics, but also from a story, a branding point of view, you know. Absolutely. There's a ton of potential there. And especially, you know, considering, you know, New Zealand's one of the most beautiful countries on the planet and you guys have so much tourism and stuff like that, you think that there would be a lot more of that there for people to explore and, and, and yeah, brandy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well,
00:49:25
Speaker
Not so much anymore. Well, not for a while anyway, but the tourism, you know, there is a fairly healthy wine.
00:49:36
Speaker
tourism, I guess, in New Zealand, you know, and and yeah, why not tap into that? Anyway, my point being is, yeah, we could be I would love for New Zealand to be a place that could champion this at a cross between different craft spirits coming together. And there's a huge opportunity there, I think, from the brand perspective. So I will watch this release with with eager anticipation. How far away are you from, you know, getting product on the shelf for your single single model?
00:50:04
Speaker
Oh, great question. So we do have some on the shelf right now. It's not kind of what I'm referring to, though. We're getting ready to release a new American single malt whiskey. That's what I'm kind of teasing. But we do have some single malt that we've had out there in the past. It's not our big mover. It's not our focal point.
00:50:25
Speaker
Right. Getting ready to move forward with is what we call a three-headed monster. And that's one, which is our bourbon whiskey, which we've talked about a lot today and which you're enjoying right now. I am. I'm still going on that. Yeah. The second one would be our American single malt, which I'm actually enjoying right now, which we've kind of been talking about a little bit already. And then the third head of that monster would be our Slipknot whiskey. So we do a partnership
Creative Collaboration with Slipknot
00:50:52
Speaker
with the brand. I'm so glad you brought this up. Yeah, we had to talk about this before we get onto it. I just have to say, though, I heard Pete in your single mole. Now, are you is that purely from a expated whiskey barrel or are you putting Pete into the is there Pete going into the grist as well?
00:51:11
Speaker
That's a really great question because we actually, we do have both on the property. So far though, so far we have only added barrels that actually do have peated malt, peated malt whiskey that has been mashed by us and everything. However, we have bought some, some X casks from places like LaFroyg and then fill them with our standard single malt. We have, we have never even popped on open yet. Cause we, I think we started doing that.
00:51:38
Speaker
years ago. So I'm very excited to see how much pea flavor actually comes through on those because it could be a great way to just get a hint of peat into a whiskey by using an ex-peated cask. But no, we do mash our own peated malt whiskey. We bring the peat in from Scotland, and then we mash it on site at Cedar Ridge. We actually just finished doing that about a month and a half ago. We did about a week and a half long of mashing peat. And it's
00:52:06
Speaker
It's so much fun when we do that because the entire campus that we're on starts smelling like a smoky campfire. And some reason- It's been amazing as well, isn't it? During those couple of weeks, everyone's in a really great mood and everyone's just cheerful because we're doing something kind of fun and uncommon and unusual. The reason I brought that up is I'm very interested to see how you take that with peering
00:52:31
Speaker
like Pete with your approachable flavor profile, which are two things that kind of, you know, I'm slamming my fists together here, guys. Absolutely. And that's one thing that, I mean, not only in this single ball, but all the whiskey that we produce, it, it, there are difficulties to staying true to that approachable style. Um, and in a second here, that'll actually be kind of a nice transition over to the slipknot whiskeys, but I'm staying put on the subject of single ball. Yeah. It is difficult.
00:52:59
Speaker
to get that peat in there, but not having it be overly aggressive or overly loud. And I'm a, I'm a peak geek. I love my peated single malt. And there have been many times where the solaravat that I'm referring to, where some of my coworkers will be like, oh, Murphy, you over peated it. There's too much peat in there. You know, that's just, that's the profile that I like. So it's hard not to. But one way to do that is, you know, in a lot of barrels in a fill that we talked about where we've got say 10 barrels that we're adding at a time,
00:53:29
Speaker
you know, if we add nine other barrels in one barrel that is 35% peated malt,
00:53:37
Speaker
It's about the right mix of whiskey for it to still contain that smoky background, but not have it be like, whoa, this is a peated whiskey, man. It's not overdone. There's just a hint of it there. And this is another bottle. When we release it, it hasn't been bottled yet or anything. But when we release it in August, I'll make sure we send a bottle to you because I want you to see what I'm talking about. It is noticeable.
00:54:03
Speaker
But if you're a Pete geek like me, it is very much in the background. It's not that noticeable at all for someone who commonly drinks Pete. But for someone who doesn't normally drink peated single malt, it is a note that you can pick up, but it's not overpowering, or at least that's what we're going for.
00:54:21
Speaker
Yeah, cool. I mean, I'm a, I'm a Pete monster too. I love this stuff. I can't get enough. You know, there's a lot of things that I enjoy in subtlety and balance, but Pete's not one of them, you know, give me more, give me more, more, more, more, more, more, more.
00:54:33
Speaker
Yeah, but in saying that, I enjoy non-Petered Whiskey too, and it sounds very much like you're using it as a nuance, you're using it as another label, sorry, another layer, rather than a huge hook to grab people. And I think there has to be something to be said too for adding a hint of, you know, so I'm a Pete Junker, I love Pete.
00:54:55
Speaker
But if I try your products, there's a layer of familiarity that's going to be in that product that doesn't necessarily jump out and grab me right away, but it entices me into the product more. So having those layers of complexity that it's almost like a little gateway for other people into the flavor product, into the flavor profile on the product that you're creating, right?
00:55:20
Speaker
Absolutely. The Pete in there is very much a component or a feature. It's not the main event. The label isn't even going to mention that this has Pete in it. It's a nice feature there. It's one of a few notes that you might pick out in it. And kind of addressing one other thing you said, yeah.
00:55:43
Speaker
Much like you and very much a geek and for me it's it's how much can you possibly put in my glass? How much smoke can you possibly get in there but with that being said I try to make a point to really get out there and explore all types of whiskey and that's something that I I really try to encourage other people to do as well and
00:56:04
Speaker
because it is such a wide category. There's so much going on in whiskey. I'm not even from like, yeah, there's obviously bourbon and rye and wheat and single malt. There's so many different types, but even within a category, specifically single malt, you've got, like we just talked about, a peated single malt, or like we talked about as well, an ex-Brandy cask is going to be more fruit for with tropical notes.
00:56:29
Speaker
Then you get into a port finished and wine finished or different types of oak. There's just so many different kinds out there. And I feel like if you stay focused on just one whiskey or even one type of whiskey, you're kind of robbing yourself of an adventure and the opportunity to go out and explore so many different types.
00:56:49
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, most of the people that are going to end up listening to this podcast are either full on whiskey geeks, full on craft geeks, and they enjoy listening to this sort of content to be able to enjoy, you know, their spirits more. It gives them more fulfillment. But there's also a large number of people considering getting into the hobby, sorry, into the industry from the hobby.
00:57:11
Speaker
on whatever level and I think this is a really really important thing to note for those people for both people actually is I agree 100% with you I in many situations I would rather drink a spirit that I've never had before and I think is going to be different
00:57:29
Speaker
than a spirit that I know is delicious, purely from the education and exploration point of view. You never know where you're going to find inspiration. You never know where you're going to find a little flavor or a mouthfeel or a finish or something in a spirit that you haven't had before that you can apply to.
00:57:49
Speaker
something totally different that you want to make. Or you can go, you know what, dude, I've never had Pete before. Now I've had Pete. I want to explore this. I want to make it. You know, where I've never had something with that funk to it or earthiness to it or whatever it happens to be. You don't know what you don't know until you figure out you didn't know it, right?
00:58:08
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. You're exactly right. And it, you know, like we both just said, I mean, you really, you really got to get out there and explore other kinds and see what is out there. And from a, from a, you know, a producer standpoint, that is actually kind of a conflict, because it's like,
00:58:24
Speaker
You know, would it be kind of cool if Cedar Ridge bourbon, for instance, was on everyone's shelf and it was everyone's favorite whiskey and that was kind of everyone's go to. I mean, yeah, that would be kind of neat, I suppose. But at the same time, I mean, you know, from a from a business standpoint, that'd be that'd be wonderful. But
00:58:43
Speaker
from more of a passion standpoint and a fellow whiskey aficionado standpoint, I want our product to be in someone's rotation. I want my bottle to be on your shelf in one
00:59:00
Speaker
that you like to try among other bottles that you like to try and explore because like i said earlier i mean if you just have our product or you just have product x whatever it might be you're missing out on so many other bottles up. Yeah you gotta get out there and explore mall but our goal is to work our way into someone's rotation and be something that people come back to every now and then and really enjoy while they're exploring other ones as well.
00:59:25
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I feel you on that, dude. It's nice to have a whiskey that is your go-to. I don't need to think about it. I just want to grab a bottle, sit down with your wife, with your kids, whatever it is, watch a movie, and be able to enjoy it without thinking about it. And I think most people end up having a bottle or two in their collection that's fairly standard that they can just do that with.
00:59:50
Speaker
But yeah, I agree. It's nice to explore and try different things. So, Slipknot. When I first saw this on the website, I saw it and went, wait, what? Is that a reference to? Is that a happy accident? Is this a collaboration? What the flying fuck is basically what I thought.
01:00:13
Speaker
So it is a collaboration, which is really, really interesting from a couple of point of view. The first of all being from a marketing and a cross-pollination of market share, I guess, being able to speak directly to people that love Slipknot that maybe haven't even tried whiskey before, but they might give it a go now because, hey, it's Slipknot. Exactly. So dude,
01:00:41
Speaker
Yeah, feel free to freestyle on this one. I don't know what I don't know what I don't know on this one. So it obviously is a Tremendous opportunity for us and something that we're we're incredibly excited about to be working with the band Slipknot you know, they they originally reached out to us and mentioned that you know, they they wanted to do a whiskey and they wanted to sit down and talk and and all that yada yada yada, but They you know, they
01:01:10
Speaker
A band of Slipknot's caliber and magnitude could work with literally any distillery on the planet. Whoever they called, they could get that person to make them a whiskey, no problem. They're a global band with millions and millions of followers, tens of millions of followers.
01:01:30
Speaker
yeah obviously it was very flattering that they even considered us in the first place but I think it says a lot about who the band is and what they stand for that you know these these guys they're all from the state of Iowa and a bunch of Iowa boys decided to go down the road to an Iowa distillery and do a collaboration project project product with us as opposed to somewhere in you know a more popular or
01:01:56
Speaker
you know, a more standard whiskey region, I guess. So it says a lot about them that they wanted to support an Iowan company and they wanted to team up with an Iowan company and we're teaming up with an Iowan band. And that's something that we're just thrilled about. But yeah, anyway, they came out and once we determined that we were going to work together, the fun kind of started.
01:02:16
Speaker
Sean or clown his he goes by clown in the band. He's the one who's really spearheaded this project he's kind of led the whole thing and he came out and The two of us along with some other people at Cedar Ridge we busted into a bunch of different barrels and pulled all sorts of different samples and
01:02:34
Speaker
did different blends and we actually determined that what slipknot whiskey was going to be was a blend of cedar ridge whiskeys and the blend was going to be roughly 60 percent, 40 percent, 60 percent cedar ridge bourbon blended with 40 percent cedar ridge rye.
01:02:51
Speaker
So it is, it's a burr rye or technically it would be in the category of blended straight whiskies. So that is what it ended up being. And we had a great time doing it. I was blown away by how, how creative he was as well as just somewhat knowledgeable about the world of whisky he was in the first place. Interesting. Yeah. This wasn't just a, let's get some merch out there. This was a labor of love from their point of view. Like they were actually interested in the process, right?
01:03:20
Speaker
Yeah, um, they were they were generally interested in it and um kind of what i'm getting at though is I mean, you know I I do whiskey blends all the time. Um, and i've been i've been blending whiskey for about 15 years now and I like to think that i'm over time i've kind of gotten to where I am now and and gotten pretty good at it and fairly successful at it It was it was interesting to see clown come in and on his first day put a really good blend together and really Really really have
01:03:49
Speaker
No problem doing it. And I was like, Oh man, you're able to just do that. But, uh, you know, anyway, he, he really, he's one of the most artistic and creative people I've ever met in my life. Uh, and he, he geeked out about it as much as I geeked about, geeked out about, you know, doing it with him. And, uh, he came up with, you know, a few more concepts. Uh, he decided that.
01:04:13
Speaker
We'd have two different whiskeys. And the first one would be Slipknot number nine, which is the one that's a little bit more readily available and easy to find. And that one's at 90 proof. And he determined that there would be a Slipknot number nine reserve, which is a more allocated product. And it's quite hard to get your hands on at this point in time. We only produce so much of it a year. And he decided that that one would be 99 proof.
01:04:41
Speaker
So obviously he kind of went all in on the number nine that has a lot of significance to their band. And, uh, yeah, so the standard number nine is that 90 proof and the nine, the number nine reserve is that 99 proof. That's. That's awesome. It's awesome to see this process go well and talk to both brands. And when I say brands, I mean the distillery and the band. Yeah.
01:05:08
Speaker
and be special to both sides, right? There's such a, almost a cliche and a trap here where it's just a business decision. So often you see it, you know? Oh, we've got lots of people that love us. You make whiskey. Let's throw our shit together and put a label out that, you know, is there to make money and no one really cares. It doesn't seem like that at all.
01:05:32
Speaker
That's exactly right. And just recently, I was in another interview where I talked about that a little bit. With the band like Slipknot or any band that has a brand or a following already, it would be so easy to cut corners. And like you said, just put whiskey in a bottle, slap a label on it, and it's probably going to be successful anyway.
01:05:56
Speaker
It'll sell anyway. It'll at least sell and it'll sell to their followers or whatever, but clown and the rest of the band, I mean, they were adamant on this needs to be a good product. If something's not ready to be bottled, don't bottle it. If something doesn't taste like the consistent blends that we're putting together, then don't do it. Basically like this, not only should this
01:06:21
Speaker
Be a quality package but a quality product at all times because I mean that one that's that's their brand I mean they don't work to Compromise their brand and put something out and just just rely on using their name to sell their product They want their brand to be associated with quality quality items creative items and that's that's what we have here
01:06:44
Speaker
As you say to the very fact that they chose to talk to you and not a behemoth in the industry somewhere else, you know, it gives you a hint that that's what they were going for for from the drop. Is this whole process something that you would recommend to other distilleries? And if so.
01:07:03
Speaker
Are there any other obvious traps that you'd say you really need to avoid to not fall into the gimmick category, I guess? Yeah. I mean, we were at a very interesting, I guess, position in kind of our lifespan as a company. We had just kind of grown to that fairly sizable distillery that we talked about earlier.
01:07:26
Speaker
And at this point in time, we've got enough whiskey put away that we can actually up with the demand that a band like Slipknot is going to present. And so yeah, I mean, I would certainly recommend to any distillery to try to partner up and
01:07:44
Speaker
Collaborate with anyone who could be created first of all but obviously if someone's got a following it's it's a shoo-in Yeah, you do want to partner up with someone and collaborate However, you don't want to over promise if you can't back it up and I mean that
01:07:59
Speaker
If you're a newer distillery, unfortunately, you probably don't have a lot of inventory put away. And so if a big musician comes into play and they're gonna try to sell a ton of whiskey, you're probably not gonna have it. You're not gonna have it on hand. And that's when quality can dip because you rush things to market, you bottle things before they're fully matured. You might have to,
01:08:26
Speaker
you know, hopefully you don't have to deceive anyone, but you know, first of all, I want to say I have no problem with people sourcing whiskey, but if you're telling people that you're not sourcing and you're sourcing it, that can happen if you're trying to keep up with demand to a crazy extent like this. If you don't have the inventory, your hands might be pushed in that direction. And so
01:08:50
Speaker
You want to be very careful about how you approach a situation like that, but if you do have the inventory put away and it is of quality, yes, absolutely. Try to collaborate and partner up with someone because it can be as close to a guarantee as you can possibly get.
01:09:07
Speaker
Yeah, cool. So you're essentially saying it's a good opportunity, but make sure you don't put yourself in a situation where you're likely to even consider compromising what it is that got you to that position in the first place, right? You don't want to think about having to do anything underhanded or sneaky or cut corners just to make demand. You don't want to put yourself in that situation. You don't want to think about it.
01:09:32
Speaker
That's exactly right. If you compromise the quality of the product, one, you're obviously, you're hurting yourself and your own company, but two, and probably even more importantly, your
01:09:43
Speaker
you're having a negative impact on someone else's brand and reputation. And that's, that's going to be, that's going to have negative consequences. Obviously, you know, that there, there can be all sorts of problems that come out of a situation like that. So yes, absolutely explore and see what's out there. And, and, and I think there's a lot of opportunity right now for things like that, but just make sure that you have a good plan that with your future partner, you know, you establish,
01:10:09
Speaker
Realistic expectations and processes and stuff like that so that you're all on the same page and and you know that hey at times Yeah, that maybe this isn't something that's on the shelf 100% of the time Maybe right something that does sell out and then is released again next year You know you just you just need to be on the same page with your partner because otherwise You can you can be doomed before you even start
01:10:30
Speaker
Yeah, totally. I mean, I think there's advantages to having a product that's hard to get to, especially in that sort of situation, right? If there's loyal fans that would love to try the whiskey, but gosh darn, it sold out this year, there's, you know, that's not exactly a horrible thing. 100%. And that actually, that can be one of the best things that you can possibly do is have
01:10:51
Speaker
it's a very difficult balancing act to have a product that is in stock just just enough that you get a good amount of it but you know it's out of stock just enough that people have kind of a hard time getting their hands on it because then.
01:11:05
Speaker
People start hunting for it and then it becomes this this game of who can find it and who can't um, yeah Some some companies have obviously gotten very good at managing that um, and then others just kind of that that happens by accident accident happens, uh very naturally but Regardless, however, you might be able to do it if you can if you can manage that balancing act properly It can create a very successful brand Yeah, totally
01:11:32
Speaker
All right, dude, I know we're running a little short on time here. And after we go backstage again, we've got some Q&A coming from the Patreons. They wanted to ask a few questions. But I also know that you wanted to talk about the rural aspects to the business and pros and cons. So up to you, man. If you've got time, we can talk about that and then go backstage. What do you want to do? Yeah, I've got a little time. And yeah.
Rural Location: Opportunities & Challenges
01:11:58
Speaker
There are all sorts of advantages and disadvantages to kind of being in a rural area. We're located out in Swisher, Iowa. And when we started out there, it was actually a much quieter town than it is now. It's kind of become a trendy spot to move to, which is awesome. But anyway, I mean, there's still not like a stoplight there. I mean, it's still a very small town.
01:12:24
Speaker
Yeah, you know, some disadvantages is that things like wastewater, you know, where things that you don't think about when you build a distillery is, yeah, there's a lot of wastewater, there's a lot of stuff that needs to go down the drains and stuff. Well, out in a rural area, you're gonna be on septic, you know, you're gonna have your own tanks that you have to pay for to get pumped. That's actually one of our biggest expenses at this point in time, as far as operations go is,
01:12:49
Speaker
get hauling all of our wastewater and when we dump a fermenter, stuff that goes down the drain, stuff like that, all that has to get hauled away and treated, and that's a huge cost to our operation. So there are disadvantages for stuff like that, but obviously there are advantages too. One, we have space for expansion.
01:13:10
Speaker
If we're operating in a big city, which I personally have worked at one that worked at a distillery that was in a city, it was very, very exciting and interesting to operate there. But if you run out of space for barrel storage, for instance, you don't have many options. You're kind of landlocked. I mean, unless you've got enough cash to buy the building across the street and convert it into a warehousing facility, you're landlocked and your hands are tied there.
01:13:35
Speaker
being out in rural Iowa on farmland, it's like, yeah, we have acres to roam. Yeah, of course we can put up another barrel warehousing facility. So that's one. And then in addition to that, because of our setting and where we're located, we become kind of a destination in the state of Iowa. If people are traveling to Iowa, a lot of times they'll come out and see us, or if
01:14:01
Speaker
if someone's friend is in town, they'll bring their friend out to Cedar Ridge to kind of show it off because it's kind of out in the middle of nowhere and it's this cool thing that's going on in an area that traditionally had a lot going on. And so that's something that we have a lot of pride in. So because we're out in that rural setting, it has kind of become a destination that people travel to and we take a lot of pride in that. And also shout out to anyone from Swisher, we're very proud to be from the town of Swisher, Iowa.
01:14:27
Speaker
Yeah, awesome. I would be lying if I said I hadn't considered.
01:14:35
Speaker
you know, the possibility of opening a distillery. And it's really just not on the cards for me at the moment. It's not a smart move for me. I won't rule it out entirely. But one of the, this is something that I considered pretty seriously is which way do you go, right? You can go out into the country, which probably means building your own facility, which sucks upfront rather than renting. It also sucks that if you've, you know, why would you not have a tasting room if legally you're able to in your state, your country, wherever you are,
01:15:05
Speaker
And then you don't get foot traffic. People aren't rolling right on by and just accidentally falling in. But like you say, you can turn it into a crazy little cool hangout somewhere that people bring people as a point of, you know, that they do it to do it. They do it because it can become a destination.
01:15:26
Speaker
And I went round and round in my head on that so many times as to which makes more sense. I mean, was that a thought process specifically for you? Were you worried about foot traffic and all that sort of stuff? I mean, I know you're focused much more on
01:15:41
Speaker
production, but in saying that, now you've got the event centers and everything too, right? So you're cutting it. It was a huge, huge decision and risk for us to do that. Obviously, I mean, we already had our vineyards out there on the property before we moved out there and put the building out there, but it was still a giant risk. And yeah, I mean, we started out in downtown Cedar Rapids where people could, you know,
01:16:07
Speaker
If they're bar crawling or they're out at a play or whatever, they could swing by before or afterwards and stop in our tasting room and check us out. Well, obviously, if you're in a rural area, no one's going to be walking to you. That's for sure. And so that was a huge risk. It was like, you know, I mean, we're going to put all this money into a winery and distillery. Are people even going to come out? Are people even going to come out and see us? And that is yet another reason why we're always very, very loyal to Iowa and Iowans is because
01:16:36
Speaker
When we didn't know if people were gonna come out and support us they did people people drove out to see us They had weddings there. They came out for wood-fired pizzas. They came out for Mystery dinners or you know, whatever live music whatever entertainment we were doing people came out and they supported us and that's something that we'll never forget because They certainly didn't have to they could have you know, they could have walked
01:16:58
Speaker
next door to the bar around the corner. But instead, they decided to travel out and see us. And that has allowed us to establish ourselves as a business of the size and caliber that we are currently. And like I said, we'll never forget that. But getting back to what you're saying, man, you should open a distillery. I think you should. You already got the beard that I can't grow, by the way. That's a
01:17:23
Speaker
Yeah, it almost feels like a industry. It's a rite of passage, right? You got to have at least one person around the distillery with a beard. Otherwise, I don't know if it counts.
01:17:33
Speaker
It's shocking, but it's so true. I think it's because the fillers are lazy and most of the time we don't have to deal with people, right? That is most certainly true. You know, I can't grow a good beard. I've tried many times, many times and it's always weird to be like the only head distiller who doesn't have just this amazing. You know, I'm still working on my look in that sense, but
Owning a Distillery: Tourism & Events Potential
01:18:00
Speaker
No, anyway, you should keep considering that because I think you'd be great at owner distillery. And like we talked about earlier, there's a lot of tourism out there and a lot of people traveling around and it'd certainly be interesting. I'd love to come visit you, that's for sure. Yeah, I mean, I think New Zealand does have a big draw that people just want to come to New Zealand anyway, right? And if I was going to do it, the thing that I didn't want to fall into was the
01:18:28
Speaker
I didn't want making spirits production day in, day out to be the main thing that I ever ended up doing because of the content. Like the way I got here is the content. And if I fall into that trap, then the content is going to suffer horribly for it, you know, making the same thing every day.
01:18:43
Speaker
It doesn't make very interesting content. But in saying that, a distillery gives a location. For example, if you did happen to come to New Zealand, why don't we get you to come and hang out and turn it into an event? It gives options for things. So I don't know, man. Anyway.
Closing Remarks & Future Products
01:19:02
Speaker
It has been an absolute pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much for your time, for your knowledge, for sharing so candidly what it is that you do and who you guys are. I can't thank you enough for that, so I appreciate it, man. Hey, thanks a lot for having me. This was an absolute blast. Thank you. Indeed. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on some of the other products you have, and I'll see if we can find an excuse to talk again later on. I look forward to it. Awesome. All right, mate. We're out.
Appreciation & Sponsorship Reminder
01:19:30
Speaker
Man, I love being able to do these podcasts and being able to talk to really, really interesting people that are at the top of their game, just like Murphy. So thanks a bunch Murphy. We got a lot of awesome information from that podcast. And I hope everyone that listening at home got the same amount of information that I did. If you are finding value from these podcasts or the still at videos, please go to chastercraft.com slash support to find all the ways that you can help the channel and the podcast out.
01:19:58
Speaker
Including, if it's right for you, signing up as a Patreon. Thanks to Adventures in Homebrewing for supporting the channel as well. You can use the code homebrewing.org slash ctc. It won't cost you an extra cent, but it will help me out a whole lot. Stay classy, guys. Until next time, keep on chasing the craft. I'll see you then.