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Ep 65: This Isn't A Good Sign from Deeproot
43 Plays4 years ago
Let's talk about Steve Ritchie leaving Stern, Lyman might be gone as well, and the new update with Deeproot.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction of Hosts
00:00:07
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
00:00:09
Speaker
I am Josh Roop.
00:00:10
Speaker
With me, my co-captain as always.
00:00:12
Speaker
Scott Larson.
Pinball Machine Recommendations
00:00:14
Speaker
And Scott, let's talk about our friends over at Flippin' Out.
00:00:18
Speaker
Would you do the honors?
00:00:19
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:00:20
Speaker
So if you have that itch for that new machine, go ahead and check out Zach and Nicole Minnie at Flippin' Out Pinball.
00:00:27
Speaker
They've always been great to us and gotten a few machines and looking to get a few more.
00:00:32
Speaker
So if you are, uh, have that void in your basement, go ahead and reach out to them and see what they can fill up.
00:00:39
Speaker
I know the stock is limited, but, uh, you know, if you have that pin that you really want that they're still making, they can certainly find out when it's being manufactured or that topper.
00:00:48
Speaker
Everybody loves toppers.
Breaking News Alert
00:00:50
Speaker
So, uh, check out Zach and Nicole mini at flipping out pinball.
00:00:55
Speaker
Sorry, I just got a note, and we'll talk about it.
00:00:58
Speaker
It's on our show notes, but I'm going to verify this while we're on here.
00:01:03
Speaker
Whoa.
00:01:04
Speaker
Okay, breaking news.
00:01:05
Speaker
Breaking news.
00:01:06
Speaker
Someone just messaged us over.
00:01:09
Speaker
Oh, boom.
00:01:10
Speaker
Well, let's also just talk about a few other friends of the podcast.
Rayday Pinball's Skills
00:01:14
Speaker
Rayday Pinball.
00:01:14
Speaker
If you want to find out and find out how your pinball machine should be played, go ahead and check out Rayday.
00:01:20
Speaker
He is unworldly about his ability to and he was number one.
00:01:25
Speaker
I don't know if he's currently number one.
00:01:26
Speaker
Do you know if Rayday is currently number one?
00:01:29
Speaker
I don't know.
00:01:29
Speaker
We'd have to look up on the IFP.
00:01:31
Speaker
It's crazy.
00:01:33
Speaker
Well, we'll talk about that too.
00:01:35
Speaker
See, wait, pulling it up, pulling it up.
00:01:37
Speaker
Oh, no, he is number four, but still number one in our hearts.
00:01:41
Speaker
We have Peter Anderson.
00:01:43
Speaker
I don't even know how that is.
00:01:48
Speaker
He's an international player.
00:01:49
Speaker
So we have Peter Anderson, Colin Urban, Johannes, and Raymond.
00:01:54
Speaker
And then Eric Stone.
00:01:56
Speaker
So we're seeing some shakeups as the rankings are slowly winding out and aging out.
00:02:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:05
Speaker
Awesome.
00:02:05
Speaker
Let's get it.
00:02:06
Speaker
There's news.
00:02:07
Speaker
And do we apologize first for the speculation?
00:02:11
Speaker
No, no.
00:02:12
Speaker
First off, I want to confirm and congratulate us that we are 2% correct.
Steve Ritchie's Move to JJP
00:02:18
Speaker
Yep.
00:02:20
Speaker
We had it.
00:02:21
Speaker
We nailed it.
00:02:22
Speaker
You guys doubted us, but no, we totally called it 2%.
00:02:26
Speaker
Boom.
00:02:28
Speaker
So you guys thought that Steve was staying at Stern forever?
00:02:31
Speaker
And no, no.
00:02:33
Speaker
Steve decided to pick up and move over to JJP.
00:02:39
Speaker
I don't get it.
00:02:42
Speaker
I still don't get it, Joshua.
00:02:44
Speaker
What's your take on this?
00:02:45
Speaker
My take is...
00:02:48
Speaker
I don't know.
00:02:49
Speaker
We talked with Steve back in May, and I decided to go back over that interview because it's like, well, maybe he had some information there that we missed.
00:02:59
Speaker
Well, he had that JJP bag over his shoulder, which should have been a dead giveaway, right?
00:03:04
Speaker
It should have been.
00:03:05
Speaker
And the JJP swag with the T-shirt on, too.
00:03:08
Speaker
Wearing the hat and the shades.
00:03:10
Speaker
And the JJP mask.
00:03:13
Speaker
No, I just...
00:03:15
Speaker
Go back and listen to the interview if you want.
00:03:16
Speaker
But I felt like he talked a lot about that he designs more mechanical stuff for pinball machines now, even though he still does design pinball.
00:03:27
Speaker
And I got thinking about that because we talked about one of the reasons
00:03:30
Speaker
that going to JJP doesn't make sense is because they would have to either ramp up production or bring Steven as some other capacity.
00:03:38
Speaker
And Steve talked about it
Ritchie's Constraints at Stern
00:03:40
Speaker
on the interview a lot.
00:03:40
Speaker
They love to design mechanical things.
00:03:43
Speaker
And at Stern, it kind of hinders him there because he talks about these crazy mechs that he was trying to create at Stern.
00:03:49
Speaker
And, and oftentimes they got taken out of the game.
00:03:52
Speaker
And so, man, this is a good creative outlet for him to do.
00:03:56
Speaker
Um, I don't know.
00:03:58
Speaker
I've heard both ways that he, you know, jumped ship, essentially left.
00:04:04
Speaker
And I've also heard that, you know, Stern asked him to retire.
00:04:07
Speaker
So I don't know exactly what the full story is there.
00:04:10
Speaker
Well, OK, is it one or is it really one or two?
00:04:14
Speaker
I know it could be a lot of things, right?
00:04:17
Speaker
Usually these things aren't one.
00:04:19
Speaker
It's not binary, right?
00:04:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:21
Speaker
Like it's the, the two options would be JJP came and dumped a briefcase of money on his, uh, on his front door.
00:04:30
Speaker
And he decided that, well, I can't refuse that.
00:04:32
Speaker
Or it could be that Stern said, you know what?
00:04:34
Speaker
I think we're done here.
00:04:36
Speaker
Um, I'm sure it's probably a combination of, of many things and neither is, is the, is the only story.
00:04:42
Speaker
Yeah, I agree.
00:04:44
Speaker
The problem is, is you got two sides of the story and the truth somewhere in the middle, right?
00:04:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:47
Speaker
But, you know, at the same time, I OK, this is like the this is like the trades, right?
Ritchie's Impact on JJP
00:04:54
Speaker
In sports.
00:04:54
Speaker
OK, how would you rank JJP winner or loser?
00:05:00
Speaker
As far as a team or what?
00:05:02
Speaker
What do you mean by winner or loser?
00:05:04
Speaker
Steve joining JJP.
00:05:07
Speaker
I think it's a win.
00:05:09
Speaker
I think it brings seniority to the team.
00:05:12
Speaker
Oh, definitely seniority.
00:05:15
Speaker
I mean, Pat and Steve, they're pushing the AARP cards.
00:05:21
Speaker
Steve said when we did the interview, he was 71 years old.
00:05:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:26
Speaker
Holy cow.
00:05:28
Speaker
And I think he's younger than Pat.
00:05:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:32
Speaker
He might be.
00:05:32
Speaker
I don't...
00:05:33
Speaker
They might be the exact same age.
00:05:35
Speaker
I think I looked this up today.
00:05:36
Speaker
I sent you over that picture of some Irish fighter named Pat Lawler, too.
00:05:40
Speaker
And I was like, what the heck is this?
00:05:43
Speaker
Oh, really?
00:05:43
Speaker
Wow.
00:05:45
Speaker
Because if you Google Pat Lawler, it does bring up the pinball...
00:05:50
Speaker
You know, the man who, yeah, he's 70 years old.
00:05:53
Speaker
So Pat Lawler is one year younger than Steve Ritchie.
00:05:56
Speaker
Okay, but come on.
00:05:57
Speaker
They are, they are, they could have gone to high school together.
00:06:03
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:06:04
Speaker
I'm pretty sure there was a DeLorean there.
00:06:09
Speaker
But my point being is, is...
00:06:11
Speaker
When a lot of teams are put together in sports, you usually have a good mix of young and old, and it's because the older brings usually good presence to the locker room, and they help teach the younger.
00:06:23
Speaker
What better way to teach the younger at JJP than bringing in someone that had massive sales,
00:06:30
Speaker
redefining mechs made for pinball machines and i think it gives opportunity for steve to spread his his wings um steve is is he can kind of create under not pressure but like his timeline's a lot shorter than what i would assume pat lawler's is so maybe they're bringing him to help pat i just don't know there's a lot of speculation
00:06:53
Speaker
I don't know.
Pat Lawler's Influence at JJP
00:06:58
Speaker
The theory is Pat has taken over over JJP.
00:07:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:04
Speaker
And he is running JJP is at least from like the inspirational head.
00:07:11
Speaker
And so this is why it really surprises me.
00:07:15
Speaker
And it could just be that old time rivals are friends again.
00:07:20
Speaker
And they both, at least since they, you know, they graduated at the same time and they've been in the industry at the same time, maybe they have a similar, you know, it's like going out with someone who is a different demographic.
00:07:33
Speaker
Sometimes it's hard to talk to them about anything because they don't have any sort of frame of reference.
00:07:39
Speaker
So having them both work together may have worked.
00:07:42
Speaker
And I guarantee the only way Steve is at JJP is because Pat wanted him there.
00:07:49
Speaker
Do you think?
00:07:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:53
Speaker
Unless it's the owner, like the owner who's collecting vintage game designers.
00:08:02
Speaker
Well, and it's funny because I really got thinking about this.
00:08:04
Speaker
We've talked to multiple designers from all the companies out there.
Industry Professional Friendships
00:08:10
Speaker
And they said there's not really... It's not that it's like... They are definitely competition.
00:08:16
Speaker
But they still talk.
00:08:17
Speaker
They still sit around.
00:08:19
Speaker
If they run into each other at lunch, it's not like they ignore each other.
00:08:21
Speaker
They still go out and sometimes get a beer together.
00:08:24
Speaker
And literally, they are like two blocks away from each other.
00:08:28
Speaker
Both of those facilities are so close.
00:08:33
Speaker
So it's hard to... It's such a small industry.
00:08:37
Speaker
Think about it.
00:08:38
Speaker
Most of the people that's working at Stern...
00:08:42
Speaker
has worked with the people at JJP, like really the only person that there's a lot of Eric, a lot of inbreeding.
00:08:48
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:08:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:49
Speaker
Yeah.
Eric at JJP's Perspective
00:08:50
Speaker
So, so, okay.
00:08:51
Speaker
So if you're Eric, um, are you excited or are you concerned?
00:08:56
Speaker
I'm excited.
00:08:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:59
Speaker
I, I w I would agree with that because, uh, Eric is, he is, he still has, you know, at least 30 years of design in front of him.
00:09:10
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:09:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:11
Speaker
And Kate legitimately, how many games do you think Pat and Steve have in them?
00:09:17
Speaker
What left?
00:09:18
Speaker
And this is, this is not their ability, but I mean, look at their timeline.
00:09:23
Speaker
They are, they are, they're still designing in a time when most people are retiring.
00:09:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:31
Speaker
And if you look at this, this gets back to exactly why we said it was a confusing rumor is because, you know,
00:09:40
Speaker
JJP, they are only releasing games every like 18 months to two years.
00:09:47
Speaker
They really aren't in a high production design philosophy.
00:09:55
Speaker
So for them to change gears like this, this tells me that either they are planning on expanding and
JJP's Production Strategy
00:10:05
Speaker
releasing more games, at least a game a year or a game every nine months or something like that.
00:10:10
Speaker
That's one option.
00:10:12
Speaker
Or two, yeah, that maybe Steve is more interested in tinkering.
00:10:17
Speaker
But do you really think he's more interested in tinkering than designing at this point?
00:10:21
Speaker
Probably.
00:10:22
Speaker
I don't know.
00:10:23
Speaker
I mean, it's, it seems like most designers are more interested in, Hey, we're going to talk about the cool things and then let them figure it out.
00:10:35
Speaker
Like the most of the guys who designed the mechs are mechanical engineers.
00:10:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:40
Speaker
So I don't know.
00:10:42
Speaker
I, it seems interesting to me, but I would, I agree with you in that this is a win for JJP.
00:10:50
Speaker
Okay.
00:10:51
Speaker
Next.
00:10:52
Speaker
Well, what's funny too, is like when we did the interview, um,
00:10:57
Speaker
At the end of the interview, Steve Ritchie was like, guys, if you ever need anything or you ever have any questions, don't go to the rumors.
00:11:06
Speaker
Come straight to me.
00:11:07
Speaker
Here's my phone number, right?
00:11:08
Speaker
I tried to call him this week and his phone's not on.
00:11:12
Speaker
I don't know if it was a Stern phone.
00:11:15
Speaker
I don't think so.
00:11:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:18
Speaker
No, that's funny.
00:11:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:19
Speaker
Well, okay.
00:11:20
Speaker
But that's, you know, Steve's going to follow his own path.
00:11:23
Speaker
So I'm happy for him.
00:11:25
Speaker
It seems like something's going on that he felt it was, well, whatever.
00:11:31
Speaker
In the cards, it was time to change.
00:11:32
Speaker
Okay.
Stern's New Design Focus
00:11:33
Speaker
Definitely.
00:11:34
Speaker
So for Stern, do you consider it a win or a loss or something else?
00:11:41
Speaker
Okay, here's the reality of Stern.
00:11:43
Speaker
This is what I really thought about this past week.
00:11:45
Speaker
They are going with new young blood.
00:11:49
Speaker
And granted, I guess Keith's not really young, but he's fresh to the designing part.
00:11:52
Speaker
He's a fresh designer.
00:11:54
Speaker
Yeah, and he's still... Okay, Keith still has 20 years of design in front of him.
00:11:59
Speaker
Oh, easily.
00:12:00
Speaker
But think about it.
00:12:02
Speaker
What have the hires been?
00:12:03
Speaker
Raymond Davidson.
00:12:05
Speaker
I mean, that dude's younger than I am.
00:12:06
Speaker
You've got...
00:12:08
Speaker
tim sexton i think we're the same age as well they're in their late 20s early 30s tim's young yeah yeah and you just had steve ritchie teaching him how coding and stuff go well with design i mean there's a lot of fresh young blood down there really what does seniority fall to probably gomez or john borg those are probably the two that have been working there the longest now john borg would be because he was originally with data east and just kind of kept going yeah just kept going
00:12:36
Speaker
Which is weird to think because I don't feel like John's really that old.
00:12:39
Speaker
And nor is George.
00:12:42
Speaker
Well, okay.
00:12:43
Speaker
George isn't a spring chicken.
00:12:45
Speaker
True, but I guess compared to Steve Ritchie, they're all kind of young.
00:12:51
Speaker
But...
Potential Successors at Stern
00:12:52
Speaker
I don't know.
00:12:52
Speaker
I feel like they're going in a young direction, which brings me to my next question.
00:12:57
Speaker
If Steve's gone, we have Eddie, Keith Owen, John Borg.
00:13:05
Speaker
Those are our three designers right now.
00:13:06
Speaker
So who fills the gap?
00:13:08
Speaker
Because when we did the interview, Steve...
00:13:11
Speaker
did say he was working on a game yeah yeah may 1st he was like the white was done it's flipping yeah so obviously either does Gomez take that over or is there a new designer that we don't know about
00:13:25
Speaker
I, okay.
00:13:26
Speaker
Is it, is it possible that it's Gomez?
00:13:30
Speaker
Sure.
00:13:30
Speaker
I mean, Gomez has come in with when things have shaken up and he has, he has changed and, and tweak things, right?
00:13:39
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:41
Speaker
We all know about the Deadpool story and I totally agree with Stern's deciding to,
00:13:48
Speaker
to dump everything from before and start afresh, but they still had the license.
00:13:53
Speaker
It was still a, a theme that resonated with a younger crowd.
00:13:58
Speaker
And George was able to, I would say design an excellent game.
00:14:03
Speaker
Um, the, so what do we do with this now?
00:14:08
Speaker
I would say that Steve Ritchie's game is... The Whitewood is probably pretty good.
00:14:12
Speaker
Okay.
00:14:14
Speaker
Steve has, I would say, been a little mixed lately to the success of the games.
00:14:21
Speaker
But we all know that he knows how to do a layout.
00:14:25
Speaker
Okay?
00:14:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:25
Speaker
Definitely.
00:14:26
Speaker
And so if they have a Whitewood that they've been spending time on and he's been doing it, this has happened before in pinball in many times where the original designer...
00:14:38
Speaker
leaves a contract thing.
00:14:39
Speaker
Dennis Nordman famously leaves before any of his games are relatively released, right?
00:14:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:47
Speaker
But they still are able to, to tune it up and to release it into.
00:14:52
Speaker
And when I say tune it up, I, the white wood is not, the reason why it's called the white wood is because it is not the finished wood, right?
00:14:58
Speaker
It's they, they still have to move posts and tweak.
00:15:01
Speaker
And so to dial in the geometry.
00:15:04
Speaker
So there is now, this could also be an opportunity to bring someone on.
00:15:11
Speaker
I, I,
00:15:14
Speaker
Is it possible that he's been collaborating with someone and that person takes it through?
00:15:21
Speaker
Or is it possible that Gomez does it?
00:15:23
Speaker
I would say someone who at least has experience with the game will finish it.
00:15:28
Speaker
I agree.
00:15:28
Speaker
But they're going to have to fill the hole, right?
00:15:30
Speaker
Because the design machine at Stern is roughly every 15 months.
00:15:37
Speaker
So which way are you leaning then?
00:15:41
Speaker
Are you leaning Gomez?
00:15:42
Speaker
Are you leaning...
00:15:43
Speaker
Someone that's maybe working at Stern that's stepping up as designer now or someone may fresh blood?
00:15:50
Speaker
I would say that George is going to be involved.
00:15:53
Speaker
I would say that it's going to be a few people, but I would say that George will give the blessing for the game.
00:15:59
Speaker
Because George has done it long enough in that he can take a Whitewood and fix whatever lingering issues are with it and be able to do it.
00:16:12
Speaker
Now, he won't take credit for it, but it could be like a joint effort between that.
00:16:15
Speaker
Now, I also don't think it's only going to be George.
00:16:19
Speaker
Yeah, I agree.
00:16:20
Speaker
I think they will find someone to fill that, to take it that last 10 yards, but with Gomez as being the advisor.
00:16:32
Speaker
I agree.
00:16:34
Speaker
I honestly think... I like your logic, but I really think there is a new designer at Stern that we don't know about yet, and they're just keeping things under wraps, and we won't know until when Richie's game should release, which will be spring of 2022 to summer of 2022, is my guess on the window.
00:16:54
Speaker
Really?
00:16:54
Speaker
You don't think they'll announce a new designer?
00:16:56
Speaker
Because I do.
00:16:57
Speaker
I think they will.
00:16:58
Speaker
I think they'll announce it, but I don't think they'll do it...
00:17:02
Speaker
before L1's games released.
00:17:03
Speaker
I highly doubt they'll do it before John Borg's.
00:17:06
Speaker
It gives you a small window.
00:17:07
Speaker
Yeah, I think they will announce at some point, though.
00:17:12
Speaker
Maybe at Expo.
00:17:13
Speaker
Maybe that will be the Expo release.
00:17:15
Speaker
Because didn't he say, oh, by the way, we hired Brian Eddy back.
00:17:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:19
Speaker
Well, they did Eddie at Texas Pinball.
00:17:22
Speaker
Oh, you're right.
00:17:23
Speaker
Yeah, sorry.
00:17:23
Speaker
But that's the thing that brings up a really... Yeah, but that brings up a great point is they announced Eddie and then it felt like forever before Eddie actually came out with a game because I felt like, didn't they announce Eddie and then Elwyn?
00:17:38
Speaker
And then Elwyn came out with Iron Maiden.
00:17:40
Speaker
No, no, no.
00:17:41
Speaker
Elwyn was there.
00:17:42
Speaker
Okay.
00:17:43
Speaker
No, I just, I felt like for some odd reason, Eddie, like everyone was like, where is Eddie's game?
00:17:47
Speaker
Where is this game?
00:17:48
Speaker
You know?
00:17:49
Speaker
No, I think that Elwin was already, if I'm remembering correctly, he had already come out with Iron Maiden.
00:17:55
Speaker
So let's move on.
00:17:58
Speaker
I think we've, we've, we've hit this with, we've, we've ran this gas out on this one.
00:18:03
Speaker
I would actually be curious to find out what you, the listeners want to say.
00:18:07
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:18:08
Speaker
Because it still seems a little puzzling to me, Steve, moving, because it's obviously not going to be the same grind at Stern.
00:18:18
Speaker
And maybe that is something that is that is attractive to him.
00:18:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:25
Speaker
Well, you can't tell me right now with how well games are selling that they're going to go back to three designers.
00:18:31
Speaker
They have got to bring in another designer.
00:18:33
Speaker
Yeah.
Stern's Game Quality Maintenance
00:18:34
Speaker
They have to do four.
00:18:34
Speaker
I don't think you can churn out a game a year and have the same level of polish that they're used to.
00:18:41
Speaker
Yep.
00:18:42
Speaker
So, and I can't, I guarantee Gomez isn't going to step into that role just because he's talked about an interview and interview in the past.
00:18:49
Speaker
I mean, he's done three or four interviews in the last couple of years that he's just said,
00:18:53
Speaker
I enjoy designing, but I just can't do it.
00:18:56
Speaker
There's just too much on my plate.
00:18:57
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:18:59
Speaker
So let's move on.
00:19:02
Speaker
We'll still stick with Stern, though.
00:19:05
Speaker
Do you believe the Lyman sheets?
00:19:07
Speaker
I still haven't heard of official confirmation like we saw with the video of Steve Ritchie arriving
Lyman Sheats' Career Speculation
00:19:14
Speaker
at JJP.
00:19:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:17
Speaker
I would bet that Lyman is transitioning at some point to something.
00:19:21
Speaker
And I'm not sure what that is.
00:19:22
Speaker
He's been doing the deep dives on the boutique games.
00:19:26
Speaker
So he did the deep dive on Batman 66.
00:19:29
Speaker
And he did the deep dive on Elvira.
00:19:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:34
Speaker
Is it possible that he wants to continue to do deep dives on passion projects?
00:19:39
Speaker
Sure.
00:19:40
Speaker
Because I guarantee people in pinball who see it's a Lyman game, they will buy it.
00:19:48
Speaker
Yep.
00:19:49
Speaker
Because it's a stamp of quality and he has a proven track record of
00:19:57
Speaker
making magic, even with play fields that have been panned at first.
00:20:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:04
Speaker
In notoriously Walking Dead, people did not like the layout.
00:20:08
Speaker
They did not like that.
00:20:10
Speaker
And Lyman's Code changed that to a fan favorite.
00:20:14
Speaker
And Batman 66, the same thing.
00:20:17
Speaker
Everyone felt like it was clunky.
00:20:19
Speaker
It wasn't a great shooting game.
00:20:21
Speaker
And Lyman's the one who sprinkled his dust on there and made it what the game is today.
00:20:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:30
Speaker
And Elvira, I still haven't played Elvira because there's not that many here.
00:20:36
Speaker
But I've heard the same thing that people really like it.
00:20:39
Speaker
Every time I play it, I really like it.
00:20:42
Speaker
So it's, there is, now, is there an incentive for a competitor to hire Lyman?
00:20:50
Speaker
Or is it possible that Lyman transitions away from a major designer to a boutique designer and also independently?
00:21:01
Speaker
So, and that transitions to, we all have speculated and pretty much all but confirmed that Cactus Canyon is the next CCR game.
00:21:11
Speaker
Or sorry, sorry, the next Chicago CGC game.
00:21:16
Speaker
And so I, if, if Lyman transitions away from being a main designer and does more of Lyman projects that he wants to do, it would be a natural fit for him to take over that code and actually make it a great game.
00:21:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:33
Speaker
So now I don't know that for sure at all.
00:21:37
Speaker
This is me speculating, but it makes at least reasonable sense that he has experience coding those games from the nineties.
Lyman's Contributions to Stern
00:21:45
Speaker
And he at least is very familiar with those layouts.
00:21:49
Speaker
When I listened to the pinball show this week, Zach many and Dennis Creasel.
00:21:54
Speaker
Hey guys, they talked about maybe he's working contract now for Stern.
00:21:58
Speaker
And that kind of makes sense to me.
00:22:00
Speaker
Like I said, I'm going to go back.
00:22:01
Speaker
I'm going to keep going back to the Steve Rich interview just because it's the most recent interview done with Steve.
00:22:05
Speaker
But he mentioned multiple times in that interview, Lyman being there and playing games like his games and giving his advice on those games.
00:22:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:13
Speaker
I mean, I would say that since Lyman is not in the normal rotation, that makes sense that he can.
00:22:20
Speaker
And really from a business standpoint, it makes sense to transition him to a contract worker because if he's not going to be producing at the same volume as the other people, then it's difficult to justify someone's salary when they're working on one game for two and a half, three years.
00:22:39
Speaker
And it really is.
00:22:40
Speaker
When you're looking at the amount of games they sell, yes, it sells that game and there's a premium associated with that.
00:22:50
Speaker
But it's still challenging to say, hey, we're paying your three-year salary for one game.
00:22:57
Speaker
It's hard to make that matter.
00:22:59
Speaker
But if it's a contract, he's like, hey, you're contracted to do this game.
00:23:04
Speaker
then it makes sense for him to be able to say, okay, well, I also want to branch out a little bit.
00:23:08
Speaker
I've done this for Stern for a long time.
00:23:10
Speaker
Well, and we tend to forget, you know, we talk about Lyman's games, but we tend to forget he did do the spike system.
00:23:17
Speaker
He's been working on other stuff that isn't just the coding of games.
00:23:22
Speaker
And that's true.
00:23:23
Speaker
And so maybe that's another reason too, that they,
00:23:27
Speaker
I don't know.
00:23:28
Speaker
It just, from the way it sounded when we talked to Steve in May, Lyman was still there.
00:23:34
Speaker
So this idea of people claiming that he's been gone for months, I mean, I guess that's still technically months, but someone had claimed it was like eight, nine months he'd been gone.
00:23:43
Speaker
I don't buy it either.
00:23:44
Speaker
But then again, we didn't buy the Steve Ritchie thing.
00:23:47
Speaker
So, okay.
00:23:47
Speaker
But there's been no, like, uh, there's, there's no rumor on a subreddit forum forum.
00:23:55
Speaker
I mean, there was one rumor like four years ago, right?
00:23:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:58
Speaker
This isn't really, again, it's not a go-to place, which really shocks me that whoever wanted to leak that information did it on subreddit.
Lyman Sheats' Future Projects
00:24:09
Speaker
It still just kind of blows my mind.
00:24:12
Speaker
It was obviously intentionally leaked there because it was so far outside what the normal channels are for pinball are.
00:24:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:26
Speaker
But I could really see him do Cactus Canyon.
00:24:30
Speaker
Could you?
00:24:31
Speaker
Oh, yeah, definitely.
00:24:32
Speaker
I mean, I've always felt like Cactus Canyon is that Lyman, Eddie.
00:24:38
Speaker
It's in the wheelhouse.
00:24:39
Speaker
Yeah, it's just that family out with the same kind of attack for Mars, medieval madness kind of code.
00:24:47
Speaker
It would not shock me if he was there.
00:24:51
Speaker
Yeah, because if you look at his thing, Elvira was the last game.
00:24:55
Speaker
2019.
00:24:56
Speaker
And yeah, he's had stuff.
00:25:00
Speaker
Then he did an ACDC polish.
00:25:03
Speaker
Then he did Batman 66, which was 2016.
00:25:09
Speaker
And then he had The Walking Dead, which was 2014.
00:25:10
Speaker
Metallica 2013.
00:25:11
Speaker
ACDC 2012.
00:25:11
Speaker
So he had a lot of big things going on.
00:25:22
Speaker
But oh my gosh, I didn't realize he was associated with Avatar.
00:25:25
Speaker
But also, like I said, though, he's also done Spike, Spike 2.
00:25:28
Speaker
Right.
00:25:29
Speaker
We know the internet connectivity has been coming from Stern.
00:25:32
Speaker
He's probably been working on the coding for that.
00:25:35
Speaker
Sure.
00:25:35
Speaker
I just, I don't know.
00:25:38
Speaker
There's a lot more layers to this onion.
00:25:40
Speaker
Well, I think it's certainly possible for him to still be working on side projects.
00:25:44
Speaker
It could be that he's...
00:25:46
Speaker
He wants to take a break from these deep dives, but, um, you know, I, I don't know.
00:25:52
Speaker
I, at, at this point I'm, I'm convinced that I'm 2% right on everything.
00:25:56
Speaker
So, so here we go.
00:25:59
Speaker
I'm, I'm, I'm going to go out on a limb and say, I, I don't know.
00:26:03
Speaker
I do firmly believe that there's a new designer at Stern, but I could be entirely wrong.
00:26:07
Speaker
I think there's a new designer.
00:26:08
Speaker
I would, I would bet that Lyman is still involved, whether or not full time, but as a contract worker, uh,
00:26:16
Speaker
It does surprise me that he hasn't been announced because typically we know, you know, we know that, that Keith generally does his own, his own layout and his rule set architecture by, by letting, you know, that his team work on everything else too, to, to tune it in.
00:26:36
Speaker
But Lyman probably wouldn't be working on that in, you know, in the Steve Ritchie,
00:26:44
Speaker
sorry, Lyman wouldn't be working on that as like a an subcoder, if you know what I mean.
00:26:52
Speaker
Like he'd be the guy pulling the strings.
00:26:55
Speaker
Well, heck, hasn't Lyman been working mostly with Cam and Cal lately anyway?
00:27:01
Speaker
It's a possibility he could be working for Kapow, which is essentially Stern anyway.
00:27:05
Speaker
Like Kapow is not going to be releasing stuff.
00:27:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:07
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
00:27:08
Speaker
So yeah, and maybe there's a Kapow game out there that we just don't know about.
00:27:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:12
Speaker
And so I'm not too worried about it just yet.
00:27:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:15
Speaker
I think we'll know more here soon.
00:27:18
Speaker
Or maybe we won't know anything at all.
00:27:19
Speaker
Hopefully.
00:27:20
Speaker
Well, we'll know something.
00:27:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:27:22
Speaker
Let's get to the... I already know the title of this episode.
00:27:25
Speaker
And so I know people are going to be clicking on this to hear what Scott has to say.
00:27:31
Speaker
Um, do we get to the letter from deep root first, or do I get to the breaking news about deep root that we just received?
00:27:38
Speaker
Okay.
00:27:39
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:27:40
Speaker
Wow.
00:27:40
Speaker
Okay.
00:27:40
Speaker
And you know what?
00:27:41
Speaker
I, I want you to surprise because I didn't get this.
00:27:44
Speaker
You got this when we started recording.
00:27:45
Speaker
So I don't even know who sent it to see you, but deep root is the gift that keeps given when it comes to information to talk
Deep Root Pinball Critique
00:27:54
Speaker
about.
00:27:54
Speaker
I, I, I, this guy just, I, I'm, I'm so in love with this guy right now.
00:28:01
Speaker
Because it is a train wreck that keeps like winding.
00:28:06
Speaker
He crashes.
00:28:08
Speaker
And then for some reason, the train keeps going and keep crashing.
00:28:12
Speaker
Like this is it.
00:28:14
Speaker
You go to a NASCAR race to see crashes.
00:28:16
Speaker
And this guy has a crash every lap.
00:28:19
Speaker
So, okay, I'm going to read this because I love this so much that it is super obvious that this guy does not have anybody writing for him.
00:28:28
Speaker
So this is definitely Bobby Mueller writing.
00:28:32
Speaker
Dear Raza customer, we are sorry for the length of time without an update.
00:28:35
Speaker
We've been contacted by a few of you within the last few weeks.
00:28:38
Speaker
The main topics were how many people took the refund offer in parentheses three.
00:28:44
Speaker
Is the refund offer still available in parentheses?
00:28:46
Speaker
No.
00:28:47
Speaker
Uh, and what's the status of the Raza builds here?
00:28:50
Speaker
A legal matter affecting Raza rose around a month ago, around a month ago.
00:28:55
Speaker
Okay.
00:28:55
Speaker
This is me interjecting here.
00:28:57
Speaker
Like, are you serious?
00:28:58
Speaker
Like how long has this been going on?
00:29:00
Speaker
And then a month ago.
00:29:01
Speaker
So this guy is, okay.
00:29:03
Speaker
He, he has a never ending supply of the dog ate my homework.
00:29:09
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:09
Speaker
Like seriously, it's like, oh, the checks in the mail.
00:29:12
Speaker
Oh, really?
00:29:13
Speaker
Oh, you know what?
00:29:14
Speaker
I'm printing the money.
00:29:15
Speaker
Oh, wait, no, really?
00:29:16
Speaker
You know what?
00:29:17
Speaker
I am inventing my own bank and there's some regulations here.
00:29:20
Speaker
I'm just totally getting all this set up.
00:29:21
Speaker
So the fact that he's again throwing chum in the water, that this lawsuit happened.
00:29:28
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:29
Speaker
So a legal matter affecting Rosler rose around a month ago that we did not expect.
00:29:33
Speaker
We were, and by the way, isn't this guy, isn't this guy in law, involved in law?
00:29:38
Speaker
That's what I thought his primary gig was.
00:29:41
Speaker
Okay, yeah, okay.
00:29:43
Speaker
We were advised by Council to not send out any substantive communication while they work to resolve it amicably.
00:29:57
Speaker
We have taken that advice while patiently waiting for it to resolve.
00:30:02
Speaker
Yeah, patiently because you're not doing anything.
00:30:05
Speaker
The back and forth has taken much, much longer than we expected.
00:30:09
Speaker
Kind of like releasing any game whatsoever.
00:30:13
Speaker
So we are providing this brief update so you understand what the delay is about.
00:30:18
Speaker
Okay, the delay is about you have no idea how to run a company.
00:30:20
Speaker
You have no idea how to actually design.
00:30:23
Speaker
You drank the Kool-Aid that J-Pop was pouring around and then you decided to make this Molotov cocktail with it, light it on fire and pour it over yourself and that's how you were going to make a pinball machine.
00:30:40
Speaker
We cannot discuss the parties or what the complaint is about.
00:30:44
Speaker
We cannot provide a timeline.
00:30:46
Speaker
Well, you've never provided a timeline, at least the time you've been able to stick to.
00:30:49
Speaker
What we can say is that we are working hard to resolve slash settle it.
00:30:53
Speaker
And we hope to be resolved very soon.
00:30:56
Speaker
I'll add parenthetically, very soon could mean like before like COVID ends.
00:31:01
Speaker
OK, yeah.
00:31:02
Speaker
In the next 20 years, we will be able to give a meaningful update at that time.
00:31:07
Speaker
Until then, dot, dot, dot.
00:31:09
Speaker
Robert J. Mueller, principal, deep root, deep root.
00:31:13
Speaker
OK, so this is like a joke high school because he even spelled it principal, you know, is how he's like your principal.
00:31:21
Speaker
Right.
00:31:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:22
Speaker
like, okay, I cannot, I cannot unwrap this anymore.
00:31:26
Speaker
Like it, when I thought that by far it was the next announcement was, uh, uh, sincerely due to COVID, uh, we had great aspirations for this, but COVID completely gutted our abilities and it was all COVID and we're totally, uh, selling off our assets to, uh, I don't know, home pin or we're, we're selling it off to American pinball or, or whatever.
00:31:49
Speaker
The fact that this guy is like, no one cares anymore.
00:31:53
Speaker
Legitimately, no one cares about Deep Root.
00:31:55
Speaker
They're never going to sell a game.
00:31:57
Speaker
They're never going to produce a game.
00:31:59
Speaker
This is not a Gene Cunningham situation where come hell or high water, he is going to make Big Bang Bar.
00:32:05
Speaker
This guy has a sleeve of excuses, and I'm totally expecting him to buy hydrofoil just like Andrew Highway.
00:32:15
Speaker
I, this is, it's, it really has become so farcical at this point that I'm surprised this guy has a full-time job.
00:32:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:25
Speaker
Because it sounds like someone who is selling some multi-level marketing junk out of his basement that is going to cure cancer and take you to the moon.
00:32:36
Speaker
So, oh my gosh.
Deep Root's Legal and Social Media Issues
00:32:38
Speaker
Like, okay.
00:32:38
Speaker
I don't even know what else to say.
00:32:40
Speaker
Like, I'm surprised that only three took the refund.
00:32:42
Speaker
Why would you not take the refund?
00:32:44
Speaker
Well, I just,
00:32:45
Speaker
why would a lawsuit already pop up for Raza?
00:32:48
Speaker
Like there hasn't been enough time.
00:32:50
Speaker
When did they start taking funds?
00:32:52
Speaker
Like, I, I don't know.
00:32:54
Speaker
Like it's the fact that it's just so vague and just so weird that it just, it, it sounds, I'm sorry.
00:33:03
Speaker
It sounds like a con job right now.
00:33:05
Speaker
Scott, there's no chance.
00:33:07
Speaker
Oh my.
00:33:07
Speaker
Oh, it gets better.
00:33:08
Speaker
Oh, it gets better.
00:33:09
Speaker
Lay it on me.
00:33:10
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:10
Speaker
You ready for this?
00:33:11
Speaker
Bring it.
00:33:13
Speaker
We were sent an email right as our episode started recording.
00:33:17
Speaker
Uh, it doesn't say whether to say the gentleman's name or not.
00:33:20
Speaker
So I'm going to, I'm going to redact it from this, but he asked, is it usually considered a good sign or a bad sign when a company deletes their Facebook page?
00:33:32
Speaker
Same question goes for deep roots funds and what's related to it.
00:33:36
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:33:36
Speaker
Go to it.
00:33:37
Speaker
Go to facebook.com slash deep root pinball right now.
00:33:41
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:33:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:45
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:46
Speaker
Deep root.
00:33:51
Speaker
I have deep root harvest.
00:33:54
Speaker
Nope.
00:33:55
Speaker
It should be Deep Root Pinball.
00:33:57
Speaker
And it gives you a little Facebook thumbs up with a band-aid on it saying this page is either broken or it has been deleted.
00:34:08
Speaker
Wow.
00:34:09
Speaker
Oh, it gets better.
00:34:10
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:11
Speaker
You know, maybe someone hacked them or there could be something related to that, right?
00:34:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:17
Speaker
I got thinking about it.
00:34:18
Speaker
I'm like, well, that's weird.
00:34:20
Speaker
I'll check.
00:34:21
Speaker
I know that Robert Mueller and I were quote unquote friends on Facebook.
00:34:24
Speaker
So I went to go look for him.
00:34:26
Speaker
He's disappeared too off of Facebook.
00:34:29
Speaker
What are, what are the odds?
00:34:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:32
Speaker
This is, this is definitely what happens when someone goes supernova is, Hey, but Robert Mueller, the sixth director of the FBI is still available.
00:34:42
Speaker
So you could get him.
00:34:43
Speaker
Maybe he can find Robert Mueller.
00:34:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:46
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:46
Speaker
When someone goes dark on the, on the internet, that means they are like, they have either left town already or they have completely jumped ship.
00:34:56
Speaker
Yep.
00:34:57
Speaker
Well, at least their webpage is still up.
00:34:59
Speaker
You can still go to deep root pinball.com.
00:35:01
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
00:35:03
Speaker
And look at it.
00:35:03
Speaker
Raza.
00:35:05
Speaker
Okay.
00:35:05
Speaker
But no, this is not a good sign.
00:35:07
Speaker
This is, this is not a good sign.
00:35:09
Speaker
Like I know that we've been kind of, well, I know how are you?
00:35:13
Speaker
I think everyone knows where Scott's been standing.
00:35:16
Speaker
Wait, contact information.
00:35:17
Speaker
I just kind of want to know contact page.
00:35:20
Speaker
There's a toll free number, like an 800 number at the bottom.
00:35:23
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
00:35:24
Speaker
I totally want to, if it weren't like 11 o'clock at night right now, I would totally call it.
00:35:30
Speaker
We should do it just to see what happens.
00:35:32
Speaker
It'll probably go to voicemail.
00:35:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:34
Speaker
I don't care.
00:35:34
Speaker
Let's do this.
00:35:35
Speaker
You got it or you want me to do it?
00:35:38
Speaker
Go ahead.
00:35:39
Speaker
Okay.
00:35:40
Speaker
I'm pulling it up right now.
00:35:41
Speaker
Okay.
00:35:43
Speaker
Let's see if this rings through.
00:35:45
Speaker
To get the fastest help, please note the following email addresses.
00:35:49
Speaker
If you are an investor or an advisor, please email us at contact at deeprootfunds.com.
00:35:57
Speaker
Once again, that is contact at deeprudefunds.com.
00:36:04
Speaker
For all other inquiries, please email us at contact at deeprudetech.com.
00:36:09
Speaker
Once again, that is contact at deeprudetech.com.
00:36:17
Speaker
There you go.
00:36:17
Speaker
That's what it gives you.
00:36:18
Speaker
That's your toll free number.
00:36:19
Speaker
And then it hangs up on it.
00:36:20
Speaker
Okay.
00:36:21
Speaker
Now one, that sounds like a, a basic computer generated automatic response, right?
00:36:30
Speaker
Like this is someone who typed it in and says, Hey, computer.
00:36:33
Speaker
It didn't reminds me of those dial up days.
00:36:36
Speaker
where, okay, it's like Gorgar talks.
00:36:39
Speaker
He's like, sure.
Deep Root's Marketing and Business Model Critique
00:36:43
Speaker
The fact that this sounds like it was made on the Commodore 64 is not a good sign that that is Deep Root investing.
00:36:52
Speaker
Okay, seriously, the more and more I look at the logo that they decided to go with Deep Root,
00:36:59
Speaker
I mean, certainly just the imagery alone of a ball ramming into the earth and possibly something else.
00:37:08
Speaker
It definitely just tells you what is going on.
00:37:12
Speaker
in the in this company wait raza in action view now yeah it just has the sizzle reel from the summer i'm half tempted i know this is terrible um but that that little automatic voice thing yeah how it goes so email us at deep root funds at gmail or whatever it is i'm half tempted to clip that where it says
00:37:35
Speaker
Again, that is deep root F you done.
00:37:42
Speaker
You could put that as your, your text tone.
00:37:43
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
00:37:47
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
00:37:47
Speaker
Have you gone to deep root funds?
00:37:51
Speaker
Huh?
00:37:51
Speaker
What's deep root funds?
00:37:53
Speaker
It's a private equity fund.
00:37:54
Speaker
Okay.
00:37:55
Speaker
I'm just looking at like, uh, okay.
00:37:59
Speaker
I know, I know a little bit about designing, um,
00:38:05
Speaker
Designing web pages, right?
00:38:07
Speaker
My brother does like web design.
00:38:10
Speaker
This.
00:38:12
Speaker
Wow.
00:38:13
Speaker
This doesn't look super professional.
00:38:14
Speaker
This looks like something that you could do yourself, which he probably did.
00:38:20
Speaker
This isn't.
00:38:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:21
Speaker
If you if you put in deep root funds, it comes up as an investment service in San Antonio.
00:38:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:28
Speaker
allocation philosophy.
00:38:29
Speaker
There's only one deep root.
00:38:31
Speaker
We have designed an investment structure never before created.
00:38:36
Speaker
Okay.
00:38:38
Speaker
Doesn't this sound like the hedge fund dude who like took all the money that they couldn't figure out?
00:38:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:43
Speaker
And ran.
00:38:44
Speaker
It's Bernie Madoff.
00:38:46
Speaker
While investment funds have been around for many years, the rise in popularity of funds here in the United States for the last 40 years was driven by an effort to simplify blah, blah, blah.
00:38:55
Speaker
Okay.
00:38:56
Speaker
At Deeper, we have designed our private investment funds around a four-pronged approach to investing.
00:39:02
Speaker
Be bold but simple by adhering to fund types which complement blah, blah, blah, overpromise blah, blah, blah, never deliver anything blah, blah, blah, delete Facebook page.
00:39:13
Speaker
So there's the four-step approach.
00:39:15
Speaker
Dude, this is not good.
00:39:17
Speaker
This is not a good sign.
00:39:19
Speaker
Oh, geez.
00:39:19
Speaker
Okay.
00:39:23
Speaker
I have not seen someone crater this bad since... I'm trying to figure out like...
00:39:31
Speaker
what sort of person came in with this, with this like big, it's like, it's like erupting into the earth at a thousand miles an hour.
00:39:40
Speaker
This is like the, the, the meteor that hit like in, in Mexico and destroyed all the dinosaurs.
00:39:47
Speaker
Yeah, it's wow.
00:39:49
Speaker
Dude, this is not good.
00:39:51
Speaker
I wonder, this is terrible of me, like, I don't know John Papaduke as a
Popadiuk's Impact on Companies
00:39:55
Speaker
person.
00:39:55
Speaker
Like, he's probably a wonderful guy.
00:39:56
Speaker
He's probably a good family man.
00:39:57
Speaker
No, no, no, he is not.
00:39:59
Speaker
He is not.
00:40:00
Speaker
He's deeply flawed.
00:40:02
Speaker
Not when it comes to business.
00:40:03
Speaker
I'm saying, like, probably on a personal level, who knows.
00:40:06
Speaker
You don't know that.
00:40:07
Speaker
There are horrible people out there.
00:40:09
Speaker
What I'm saying is, is, I don't mean this as, like, a personal stab at him.
00:40:16
Speaker
I'll stab.
00:40:17
Speaker
I'll stab.
00:40:20
Speaker
Papa Duke is what tanks your company.
00:40:22
Speaker
After listening to the Silver Ball Chronicles today and listening to them talk about how Star Wars Episode I is what made them pull the plug at Williams and kill the pinball division.
00:40:35
Speaker
And guess who designed that?
00:40:37
Speaker
John Papa Duke.
00:40:40
Speaker
I mean, everything that Papa Duke has touched since 1999...
00:40:44
Speaker
has tanked in one way or another and bad, like flames going up just bonfire style.
00:40:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:51
Speaker
Well, that's a 22 year track record.
00:40:53
Speaker
How many successful years did he have?
00:40:56
Speaker
Well, that's the thing, though.
00:40:57
Speaker
Like, you listen to these interviews and stuff.
00:40:59
Speaker
I almost get the impression that Papa Duke didn't, like, he designed some of the stuff, but I think a lot of these designs were... Someone fixed them?
00:41:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:09
Speaker
Papa Duke started them, someone fixed them, and then Papa Duke took the credit.
00:41:12
Speaker
Papa Duke had a way of making something look interesting.
00:41:18
Speaker
And that's what it was.
00:41:19
Speaker
Like, it has an interesting flair that is different than others, but it certainly is not a, wow, this is a, I don't know, I guess you can have some super fun games.
00:41:28
Speaker
Okay, the glory years are over.
00:41:31
Speaker
And this is Tito Jackson trying to release his singles.
00:41:34
Speaker
Dude, like, well, and think even Williams.
00:41:36
Speaker
Like, think of the games he made there.
00:41:38
Speaker
We've got World Cup soccer.
00:41:39
Speaker
We've got Toten, so Tales of Arabian Nights.
00:41:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:42
Speaker
We've got Circus Voltaire.
00:41:44
Speaker
We've got Theater of Magic and Star Wars Episode I. And you think about it.
00:41:49
Speaker
By the time Star Wars Episode I happened, the ship was already going down.
00:41:53
Speaker
Like, Gomez and Pat Lawler, bless their souls, did everything in their path along with Larry DeMar to keep that ship afloat.
00:42:02
Speaker
And they did a fantastic job.
00:42:04
Speaker
I would still love... One of my favorite games is Revenge from Mars.
00:42:07
Speaker
And I wish... I wish they would have just released a couple more games.
00:42:11
Speaker
I wanted to see where this platform was going.
00:42:13
Speaker
It is what got me into pinball.
00:42:15
Speaker
Like, thank you, Gomez, for making Revenge from Mars.
00:42:19
Speaker
Because it just... It piqued my interest.
00:42:21
Speaker
Like, I'd never seen anything like it before.
00:42:23
Speaker
And no one's really seen anything like it since... Except for you could argue P3.
00:42:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:27
Speaker
But my point being is, it's like...
00:42:30
Speaker
you listen to the silver ball Chronicles episode, like no spoilers or anything here.
00:42:34
Speaker
Cause a lot of this stuff's been out for 20 plus years.
00:42:37
Speaker
Like Gomez tried to convince Papa Duke not to do what he did with star Wars episode one and Papa Duke did it anyway.
00:42:45
Speaker
And so I just, I don't know, dude.
00:42:49
Speaker
Like I really think that people aren't in love with Papa Duke.
00:42:52
Speaker
I think they're in love with,
00:42:54
Speaker
the person that fixed Papa Dukes designs.
00:42:56
Speaker
I just don't think I didn't realize that really, uh, this entire list, he has, um, a co-designer or games.
00:43:06
Speaker
No, he has four games that I would consider any good.
00:43:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:10
Speaker
His world cup soccer, theater magic.
00:43:12
Speaker
So he, he had a three year window and I'll add one year for his development.
00:43:20
Speaker
He had four years, uh,
00:43:22
Speaker
Until he did Circus Voltaire.
00:43:25
Speaker
And it has been 24 years since then.
00:43:28
Speaker
It's all been turds.
00:43:30
Speaker
Dude, he, okay, here's Rick Springfield re-releasing Jessie's Girl.
00:43:34
Speaker
Exactly.
00:43:35
Speaker
He has gotten so much.
00:43:37
Speaker
I didn't realize how criminally small his resume was.
00:43:43
Speaker
Wow.
00:43:44
Speaker
It is tiny.
00:43:45
Speaker
And like I said, it's not a knock on Papadook, but I really just... It's a knock on Papadook.
00:43:50
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:43:51
Speaker
It's a knock.
00:43:52
Speaker
And that's... Wow.
00:43:55
Speaker
What a joke.
00:43:57
Speaker
Dude, I just... It's one of those situations where it's just like, it's time.
00:44:01
Speaker
Let's just call this quits.
00:44:03
Speaker
Dude, he was a one-hit... Like, that's it.
00:44:05
Speaker
He was a... Okay, he was a four-hit wonder.
00:44:08
Speaker
And that's it.
00:44:09
Speaker
But man, I didn't realize how he has more zizzle games.
00:44:14
Speaker
Yep.
00:44:15
Speaker
And those zizzles are the ones you buy at like target for 20 bucks.
00:44:21
Speaker
Like I said, I really think that people need to understand.
00:44:23
Speaker
I don't think you're in love with Papa Duke.
00:44:25
Speaker
I think you're in love with the person that fixed Papa Duke's games at Williams.
00:44:29
Speaker
I'm looking behind the curtain that there is no wizard of Oz kids.
00:44:34
Speaker
No.
00:44:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:35
Speaker
Wow.
00:44:36
Speaker
So can we just please, I just, this deep root thing is going to go on though.
00:44:40
Speaker
That's the problem.
00:44:41
Speaker
Like Robert Mueller can run away as much as he wants, but he's, yeah.
00:44:47
Speaker
Sorry, kids.
00:44:48
Speaker
You're never getting your game.
00:44:50
Speaker
As I've said for a long time, you're never getting your game and I doubt you're going to get your money back.
00:44:57
Speaker
I seriously doubt you're going to get your money back.
00:44:59
Speaker
Well, I appreciate the person that emailed us and said, hey, I totally get it.
00:45:03
Speaker
But that person knew what they were getting into.
00:45:06
Speaker
And I appreciate that.
00:45:08
Speaker
I feel sorry for the person who felt like he was investing early in Wizard of Oz and ended up getting their Wizard of Oz.
00:45:16
Speaker
Yep.
00:45:18
Speaker
I just...
00:45:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:20
Speaker
When their social media is gone, you are gone kids.
00:45:23
Speaker
Cause that is free.
00:45:26
Speaker
That is the only thing.
00:45:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:27
Speaker
The only thing they have is a website and a toll free number that goes to what you just heard.
00:45:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:32
Speaker
So this isn't good.
00:45:34
Speaker
Woo.
00:45:35
Speaker
Okay.
00:45:36
Speaker
All right.
00:45:37
Speaker
Well, you know, it's,
00:45:40
Speaker
It's, it's just, okay.
00:45:41
Speaker
I will say the plus is there, okay.
00:45:45
Speaker
Let's talk about this winners and losers.
00:45:49
Speaker
Is there a plus side to this at all?
00:45:51
Speaker
Josh, it's a silver lining.
00:45:53
Speaker
Is there, is there anything about this that I would, I would say that hopefully the community has learned that we can't keep investing into these people that are nothing but fluff.
American Pinball's Decision
00:46:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:08
Speaker
Um,
00:46:09
Speaker
I mean, really what startup company that has asked for money up front has worked out besides spooky.
00:46:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:19
Speaker
Um, yeah, I don't know.
00:46:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:46:22
Speaker
I, I guess they, there is, okay.
00:46:24
Speaker
I will say there is one plus.
00:46:26
Speaker
Okay.
00:46:27
Speaker
Okay.
00:46:28
Speaker
There is one clear winner in the, um, well, okay.
00:46:34
Speaker
There's actually two winners in the, in the,
00:46:39
Speaker
the desolation of J pop that he has left.
00:46:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:46:45
Speaker
We have, we have zombie Yeti.
00:46:50
Speaker
Yep.
00:46:51
Speaker
Cause he's the one who made Alice in Wonderland and look so pretty.
00:46:54
Speaker
Yep.
00:46:56
Speaker
And him being discovered and coming into pinball has been great.
00:47:02
Speaker
There is also, and I know this is a little bit out of left field, American pinball.
00:47:08
Speaker
Yeah, true.
00:47:09
Speaker
Because American pinball thought, hey, there is something here.
00:47:13
Speaker
Look at the demand this complete clown drove.
00:47:18
Speaker
But they were smart in that as soon as they immediately saw who J-pop was, they did not play the Emperor's New Clothes card.
00:47:29
Speaker
They saw him for what he was, and they yeeted him out of there so fast that
00:47:35
Speaker
that he could actually, they could actually make, I would say a very successful startup, um, startup pinball company.
00:47:44
Speaker
And, and, and they're still, they are still cutting their baby teeth kids, but wow.
00:47:50
Speaker
Um, I would say American pinball and, and zombie Yeti.
00:47:54
Speaker
What about you?
00:47:56
Speaker
I agree.
00:47:58
Speaker
I think that's about it.
00:47:59
Speaker
Maybe I just, I feel bad for Steve
Steve Bowden's Potential
00:48:01
Speaker
Bowden.
00:48:01
Speaker
I wanted to see what he produced.
00:48:02
Speaker
Like,
00:48:04
Speaker
If anything has been proven to us over the last five plus years, it's fresh blood that is higher up on the IFPA rankings that understand code make good code sets.
00:48:16
Speaker
Tim Sexton's killing it.
00:48:18
Speaker
Raymond Davidson's killing it.
00:48:21
Speaker
Bowen Cairns did great with Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle.
00:48:25
Speaker
Obviously, he's not super young, but still, he has fresh blood that knows his rule sets.
00:48:31
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
00:48:32
Speaker
And Steve Bowden is definitely that person.
00:48:34
Speaker
He is fantastic when it comes to code.
00:48:37
Speaker
And so I just... Well, okay.
00:48:39
Speaker
Now, in fairness, we don't know.
00:48:42
Speaker
Steve is a great ambassador, and I don't know one person who doesn't like Steve.
00:48:47
Speaker
I'm hoping that because pinball is his passion, I'm hoping he does find the some way of making it a job.
00:48:55
Speaker
But we, you know, aside from being aside from being very successful in being the good guy in pinball, he's he's an unknown quantity.
00:49:07
Speaker
Yep.
00:49:08
Speaker
He really is.
00:49:09
Speaker
Unless if you've played Raza, which Raza was playable.
00:49:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:13
Speaker
Two years ago.
00:49:14
Speaker
Sure.
00:49:15
Speaker
And I actually know a guy who played six hours on Raza.
00:49:18
Speaker
He used to work for Deep Root.
00:49:19
Speaker
And I talked to him about it and he said, it's nothing special.
00:49:23
Speaker
Oh.
00:49:24
Speaker
Like he was not impressed, not interested, didn't want to buy it.
00:49:29
Speaker
I don't know.
00:49:30
Speaker
So I guess, okay, here's the other question too.
00:49:33
Speaker
Because some of the speculation too is, well, if Deep Root does actually go under, they'll sell their assets to another company.
00:49:40
Speaker
Can they even do that at this point if they're legally?
Deep Root's Assets and Marketability
00:49:43
Speaker
I don't know.
00:49:44
Speaker
Okay, so Food Truck is going to be a big seller.
00:49:48
Speaker
Okay, let's say, because they said they had the Who and the Goonies.
00:49:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:52
Speaker
If they really do have those two licenses, it might be worth it for another company to go after them.
00:49:56
Speaker
But is it,
00:49:58
Speaker
the themes maybe, but those licenses are usually time, uh, like time, uh, sensitive.
00:50:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:05
Speaker
They're time sensitive.
00:50:07
Speaker
They have to either do something with them within two to three years or they got to give back.
00:50:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:11
Speaker
And so I, I don't know.
00:50:13
Speaker
In some ways these things could be forever tainted.
00:50:16
Speaker
Like people will always associate that.
00:50:18
Speaker
It's, uh,
00:50:19
Speaker
And we all know we brought up before Deep Root or Deadpool.
00:50:24
Speaker
Deadpool did a complete gut job and rebuild from the ground up and were able to resurrect that title.
00:50:31
Speaker
But come on, is Goonies really that relevant now?
00:50:37
Speaker
I don't see it.
00:50:39
Speaker
They couldn't make Beetlejuice.
00:50:40
Speaker
They couldn't make Beetlejuice.
00:50:41
Speaker
They're not going to make Goonies.
00:50:44
Speaker
They're not going to make Superman 2.
00:50:46
Speaker
These things, we have some nostalgia for them, but are they marketable?
00:50:53
Speaker
I don't think so.
00:50:53
Speaker
I think some of them, yes, but I just... Okay, Queen, sure.
00:50:56
Speaker
I know Zach Manning's going to be upset with me, but I just don't get Goonies.
00:51:00
Speaker
Maybe it's because I didn't grow up in the 80s and watched that in the theaters as a child.
00:51:05
Speaker
We re-watched it just a couple years ago, my wife and I, and at the end of it, we're like...
00:51:11
Speaker
Like, I know it's a coming of age story, but it just, it didn't feel like it held up to this.
00:51:15
Speaker
It doesn't time.
00:51:16
Speaker
No.
00:51:16
Speaker
And what happens actually, a lot of times eighties were built on stereotypes.
00:51:21
Speaker
They really were.
00:51:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:22
Speaker
And it's all about the, like, Hey, the kids in the eighties, like they were, it was terrible.
00:51:30
Speaker
Like watch home alone.
00:51:32
Speaker
Really try to watch it with your kids.
00:51:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:34
Speaker
And,
00:51:35
Speaker
Half the time we're watching it, we're pausing it and saying, okay, so you know how these kids are not being nice to each other?
00:51:42
Speaker
You can't do that.
00:51:44
Speaker
This is not how we interact with people.
00:51:47
Speaker
They just allowed this horrible behavior and just said, oh, well, this is the stereotype, so we're just going to go with it.
80s Movie Themes in Pinball
00:51:53
Speaker
Goonies, when you watch 80s movies with your kids, you never realized how much swearing was in them when you watched them as a kid.
00:52:01
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:52:01
Speaker
Goonies has a lot of swearing in it.
00:52:03
Speaker
It's impressive how much swearing it is in it.
00:52:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:06
Speaker
So I, I think a lot of these classic nostalgia themes, I, there's a reason why they have a marketing guy who will go out and check the viability of a theme.
00:52:17
Speaker
And I, I just don't see it.
00:52:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:24
Speaker
The games.
00:52:24
Speaker
Okay.
00:52:25
Speaker
So, so let's go over these no longer.
00:52:28
Speaker
Oh, it's no longer for sale.
00:52:29
Speaker
Oh no.
00:52:30
Speaker
Um,
00:52:31
Speaker
It's sad.
00:52:32
Speaker
It's like a time.
00:52:33
Speaker
Okay, I can't even pull up their games.
00:52:37
Speaker
They've probably pulled that off from their website too.
00:52:39
Speaker
It was Food Truck.
00:52:41
Speaker
It was Yukon Yeti.
00:52:42
Speaker
I actually had it recently.
00:52:44
Speaker
Yeah, I had it up last time.
00:52:47
Speaker
There's only... Okay, that's telling right there.
00:52:51
Speaker
All of their licenses are pulled.
00:52:54
Speaker
They just have Raza on there.
00:52:57
Speaker
And they have the fire and brimstone.
00:52:59
Speaker
I mean, who doesn't want to?
00:53:00
Speaker
They're honestly, this is what I'm, like I said, they're probably honestly trying to cover the rest of their assets that they have so that way they can hopefully salvage them and sell them to another company and not get them bound up in a legal suit, which is going to happen regardless.
00:53:15
Speaker
Oh, no, no, I found it.
00:53:16
Speaker
Sorry, I did find it.
00:53:17
Speaker
It's under upcoming games.
00:53:19
Speaker
Titled to be determined.
00:53:22
Speaker
Fire and Ripstone, Gladiator, Magic Girl, Machine Age, Food Truck, The Who, Merlin's Arcade, Yukon Yeti, Alice, Combative Racing, wait, Combative Racing License, Multiplex, Popular Board Game License, 80s Movie Life.
00:53:44
Speaker
Hey, seriously, this is a senior project in high school's brainstorming session.
00:53:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:52
Speaker
okay.
00:53:53
Speaker
The who maybe is the who relevant?
00:53:55
Speaker
And you might, okay.
00:53:57
Speaker
If, okay, they've already had a game.
00:54:01
Speaker
They've already had two games.
00:54:04
Speaker
I say, okay, but here's the problem.
00:54:06
Speaker
Does anybody in pinball want to listen to pinball wizard?
00:54:10
Speaker
I doubt it, but you never know.
00:54:11
Speaker
There might be still people out there that love the who that want another who pinball machine.
00:54:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:16
Speaker
No, I would take a Bon Jovi pinball machine.
00:54:20
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's bigger giants that are closer.
00:54:25
Speaker
Okay, these aren't even the A-list.
00:54:28
Speaker
This is like the C-list.
00:54:29
Speaker
Okay, Merlin's Arcade.
00:54:31
Speaker
Seriously, I'm looking at these things, and they look like games that I would download on my iPhone for $3 or the free play.
00:54:40
Speaker
The free games are like, hey, you want to buy a special food thing and we'll be able to get farther in the game?
00:54:48
Speaker
But the thing is, I guess we're running back to where we started.
Deep Root's Promised Games
00:54:54
Speaker
Everything's tanking.
00:54:55
Speaker
They're not going to be making any of these games.
00:54:57
Speaker
And everything you just said to me, I don't see that selling.
00:55:01
Speaker
The only thing that could sell, I mean, they obviously had some good talent at Deep Root.
00:55:06
Speaker
And that's kind of, I think that's another reason people got behind it is they saw that picture of seven or eight different people sitting around in that room.
00:55:14
Speaker
And they're, they're just like, yes, Barry Osler, Dennis Norman and stuff like that.
00:55:18
Speaker
Maybe I think that's the only thing that's going to save deep root or make them break even at this point or not even break.
00:55:24
Speaker
They're not going to break even.
00:55:25
Speaker
They have get out of a lawsuit.
00:55:26
Speaker
Hopefully this is a, this is a write-off situation where it's like I made money somewhere else.
00:55:32
Speaker
Hopefully.
00:55:33
Speaker
And I'm just going to use this as a loss.
00:55:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:37
Speaker
Yep.
00:55:39
Speaker
So I just, I don't see, I don't see it happening anymore.
00:55:45
Speaker
No, no, no.
00:55:46
Speaker
It's, it's done.
00:55:47
Speaker
Once you're, once your free Facebook page goes, goes dark, you are done.
00:55:53
Speaker
Yep.
00:55:54
Speaker
And your personal Facebook page goes dark.
00:55:56
Speaker
That's the one that gets me, man.
00:55:58
Speaker
That's I, when people go dark on Facebook, there's a reason.
00:56:02
Speaker
Yep.
00:56:03
Speaker
He's probably getting too many contacts, people asking questions.
00:56:07
Speaker
Probably was just easier to get rid of it.
00:56:09
Speaker
Yeah, I think so.
00:56:13
Speaker
Man, crazy, crazy, crazy.
00:56:16
Speaker
So you're telling me we won't see a Deep Root game at Expo?
00:56:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:22
Speaker
So I guess the other question too is, does Raza go down?
00:56:25
Speaker
Because there's obviously...
00:56:27
Speaker
prototype at least made yeah but okay it's i'm sorry it's someone who wants to collect a weird thing it's like having those those eight magic girls or whatever 20 years from now when people are talking about really obscure games yeah but you can't play it at least with an obscure title like big bang bar you can play it okay do you want play the one prototype do you want to
00:56:54
Speaker
Dude, people that collect those kind of games doesn't matter if it plays great or not.
00:56:58
Speaker
People who collect those kind of games have money to burn.
00:57:01
Speaker
Obviously, there's enough people out there that bought how many Magic Girls that were available from Zidware for $25,000.
00:57:09
Speaker
Well, they're idiots.
00:57:13
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:57:14
Speaker
A game that... Okay, you buy it because it's art.
00:57:16
Speaker
You don't buy it because you want to play it.
00:57:19
Speaker
But a lot of people didn't know that when they were buying it.
00:57:21
Speaker
They should know now.
00:57:22
Speaker
You should.
00:57:23
Speaker
Dude, if you're going to be spending $25,000 on something, you should know what you're buying.
Deep Root's Asset Sale Speculation
00:57:31
Speaker
So I did pull this up and this is interesting.
00:57:35
Speaker
So hopefully things are cool with Jeff Patterson.
00:57:37
Speaker
I just saw an update that was posted August 2nd.
00:57:40
Speaker
Hello fellow pinheads.
00:57:41
Speaker
Unfortunately, real life is going to
00:57:43
Speaker
force a short break from this, the weekly This Week in Pinball updates.
00:57:47
Speaker
There are a lot of interesting happenings going on in pinball in the world right now.
00:57:50
Speaker
We'll play catch up on everything when we return on August 23rd.
00:57:55
Speaker
As you, thank you as always for your support of This Week in Pinball and go play some pinball.
00:57:59
Speaker
Sincerely, Jeff, This Week in Pinball.
00:58:01
Speaker
So hope everything's cool with Jeff.
00:58:03
Speaker
Maybe he's just on a summer vacation, but if you need to step back from pinball for a while, that's what you do.
00:58:11
Speaker
Yep.
00:58:11
Speaker
Well, and I texted him after I saw that.
00:58:14
Speaker
I texted him just asking him, hey, is everything fine?
00:58:17
Speaker
And he said, yeah, things are okay.
00:58:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:22
Speaker
Maybe he got hired by DeepRoot.
00:58:24
Speaker
Maybe he is buying DeepRoot's assets.
00:58:26
Speaker
Maybe.
00:58:28
Speaker
It just, yeah.
00:58:31
Speaker
Oh, my goodness.
00:58:33
Speaker
Crazy stuff.
00:58:35
Speaker
Well...
00:58:36
Speaker
I think that does it for our show tonight.
00:58:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:39
Speaker
Because we're at a, yeah.
00:58:41
Speaker
It's just mind boggling, but all right.
00:58:44
Speaker
So, okay.
00:58:45
Speaker
So to recap loud, wrong on Steve Ritchie leaving, I, I wish him well.
00:58:52
Speaker
It's, it's still kind of head scratching to me, but I guess more will come out as, as time goes on.
00:59:00
Speaker
I'm sure someone, if someone does know something, go ahead and send us a message.
00:59:04
Speaker
We'd love to hear.
00:59:05
Speaker
Um, even anonymously.
00:59:07
Speaker
Uh, but, uh, yeah.
00:59:09
Speaker
And, uh, Deep Root, I'm hoping this is the final thing, but you know how it's kind of like Dutch pinball.
00:59:15
Speaker
You know how there was always these weekly train wrecks and then eventually it just kind of disappeared into the ether.
00:59:22
Speaker
I'm kind of hoping and thinking that's what's going to happen with Deep Root.
00:59:26
Speaker
Yeah, but the thing about Dutch pinball, people bought their assets and made the big Lebowski.
00:59:30
Speaker
But then again, the big Lebowski is actually a good design and was a complete game or for the most part was a complete game when it was shipping.
00:59:38
Speaker
Okay, but how relevant are you interested in anything Dutch pinball related right now?
00:59:46
Speaker
I've never played a Big Lebowski.
00:59:48
Speaker
I know where one is at.
00:59:50
Speaker
It's four hours away.
00:59:52
Speaker
I want to make a trip up there.
00:59:53
Speaker
I want to check this guy's collection out.
00:59:55
Speaker
I need to find time just to do it.
00:59:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:58
Speaker
But I was intrigued in the Dutch pinball game.
01:00:02
Speaker
uh, bride of pin bot kit before it went, yeah, before it went from like, what was it?
01:00:08
Speaker
Two grand, three grand to buy up to like eight or $13,000 for the kit.
01:00:11
Speaker
And it's like, no, no, yeah.
01:00:12
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:12
Speaker
So,
01:00:17
Speaker
Yeah, so we'll see.
01:00:19
Speaker
If anyone knows anything more, let
Lessons for the Pinball Community
01:00:21
Speaker
us know.
01:00:21
Speaker
This is us certainly speculating, but I would say Outlooks doesn't look good.
01:00:26
Speaker
I think Outlooks look fine for Steve, and I would say even all parties.
01:00:29
Speaker
I think this is one of those things that maybe shaking things up is probably a good thing.
01:00:34
Speaker
And then with Deep Root, again, just another spectacular crash that did not need to happen.
01:00:42
Speaker
Yep.
01:00:44
Speaker
But they set themselves up for failure on that one, man.
01:00:48
Speaker
No one else did that for them.
01:00:50
Speaker
Well, I'm still waiting for those five days of deep root.
01:00:53
Speaker
Yep.
01:00:54
Speaker
And it sounds like you'll be waiting a long time.
01:00:56
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:58
Speaker
Oh, my goodness.
01:00:59
Speaker
Well, if you want to get a hold of us, we are LoserKidPinballPodcast at gmail.com.
01:01:04
Speaker
We're also on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at LoserKidPinballPodcast.
01:01:09
Speaker
Sorry, just at LoserKidPinball.
01:01:11
Speaker
I promise you we haven't deleted our social media pages.
01:01:14
Speaker
No.
01:01:16
Speaker
I did just get a new, uh, box of, uh, swag, which reminds me, expo's coming up.
01:01:22
Speaker
Scott and I are going to expo.
01:01:24
Speaker
If you want a shirt, if you want a hat, you don't want to pay.
01:01:27
Speaker
If you're coming from Canada, if you're coming from Australia, if you're coming from over in Europe, you want one of these things, you don't want to pay the ridiculous shipping or whatever.
01:01:34
Speaker
Let me know.
01:01:35
Speaker
Email me at loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com.
01:01:40
Speaker
Let's get this taken care of.
01:01:41
Speaker
Cause I want to get this stuff, uh,
01:01:43
Speaker
to Expo.
01:01:44
Speaker
I'll probably have to ship it to Expo instead of taking on the airplane with me.
01:01:49
Speaker
We're going to have to get it figured out, but I want to get all the orders taken care of.
01:01:53
Speaker
We'll have orders open probably until the end of September, so that way we can get them all printed and ready to go.
01:02:00
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:01
Speaker
No, absolutely.
01:02:02
Speaker
And hey, Steve, Steve Govea, I haven't forgot about you.
01:02:05
Speaker
I do have your beanie, but it's probably a million degrees down in San Diego, so I'll give that to you.
01:02:12
Speaker
And Tealus, we finally get to give you your hat and shirt, man.
01:02:15
Speaker
So you better be at Expo.
01:02:18
Speaker
We got a baby tee for you, Steve.
01:02:20
Speaker
Or Jeff, sorry.
01:02:24
Speaker
Oh, my goodness.
01:02:25
Speaker
Other than that, I think this was quicker than the two weeks we talked about last time.
01:02:31
Speaker
Hey, when the news wakes up, we have to talk about it.
01:02:36
Speaker
I guess we'll see you in two weeks, Scott.
01:02:37
Speaker
All right, we'll see you.
01:02:38
Speaker
Bye.
01:03:06
Speaker
D-Proved.
01:03:06
Speaker
F-U-R.