Transcript
Speaker: Thanks for tuning in to Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
Speaker: I am Josh Roop.
Speaker: With me, my co-captain as always.
Speaker: Scott Larson.
Speaker: And Scott, let's talk about our friends over at Flippin' Out.
Speaker: Would you do the honors?
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: So if you have that itch for that new machine, go ahead and check out Zach and Nicole Minnie at Flippin' Out Pinball.
Speaker: They've always been great to us and gotten a few machines and looking to get a few more.
Speaker: So if you are, uh, have that void in your basement, go ahead and reach out to them and see what they can fill up.
Speaker: I know the stock is limited, but, uh, you know, if you have that pin that you really want that they're still making, they can certainly find out when it's being manufactured or that topper.
Speaker: Everybody loves toppers.
Speaker: So, uh, check out Zach and Nicole mini at flipping out pinball.
Speaker: Sorry, I just got a note, and we'll talk about it.
Speaker: It's on our show notes, but I'm going to verify this while we're on here.
Speaker: Whoa.
Speaker: Okay, breaking news.
Speaker: Breaking news.
Speaker: Someone just messaged us over.
Speaker: Oh, boom.
Speaker: Well, let's also just talk about a few other friends of the podcast.
Speaker: Rayday Pinball.
Speaker: If you want to find out and find out how your pinball machine should be played, go ahead and check out Rayday.
Speaker: He is unworldly about his ability to and he was number one.
Speaker: I don't know if he's currently number one.
Speaker: Do you know if Rayday is currently number one?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: We'd have to look up on the IFP.
Speaker: It's crazy.
Speaker: Well, we'll talk about that too.
Speaker: See, wait, pulling it up, pulling it up.
Speaker: Oh, no, he is number four, but still number one in our hearts.
Speaker: We have Peter Anderson.
Speaker: I don't even know how that is.
Speaker: He's an international player.
Speaker: So we have Peter Anderson, Colin Urban, Johannes, and Raymond.
Speaker: And then Eric Stone.
Speaker: So we're seeing some shakeups as the rankings are slowly winding out and aging out.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: Let's get it.
Speaker: There's news.
Speaker: And do we apologize first for the speculation?
Speaker: No, no.
Speaker: First off, I want to confirm and congratulate us that we are 2% correct.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: We had it.
Speaker: We nailed it.
Speaker: You guys doubted us, but no, we totally called it 2%.
Speaker: Boom.
Speaker: So you guys thought that Steve was staying at Stern forever?
Speaker: And no, no.
Speaker: Steve decided to pick up and move over to JJP.
Speaker: I don't get it.
Speaker: I still don't get it, Joshua.
Speaker: What's your take on this?
Speaker: My take is...
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: We talked with Steve back in May, and I decided to go back over that interview because it's like, well, maybe he had some information there that we missed.
Speaker: Well, he had that JJP bag over his shoulder, which should have been a dead giveaway, right?
Speaker: It should have been.
Speaker: And the JJP swag with the T-shirt on, too.
Speaker: Wearing the hat and the shades.
Speaker: And the JJP mask.
Speaker: No, I just...
Speaker: Go back and listen to the interview if you want.
Speaker: But I felt like he talked a lot about that he designs more mechanical stuff for pinball machines now, even though he still does design pinball.
Speaker: And I got thinking about that because we talked about one of the reasons
Speaker: that going to JJP doesn't make sense is because they would have to either ramp up production or bring Steven as some other capacity.
Speaker: And Steve talked about it on the interview a lot.
Speaker: They love to design mechanical things.
Speaker: And at Stern, it kind of hinders him there because he talks about these crazy mechs that he was trying to create at Stern.
Speaker: And, and oftentimes they got taken out of the game.
Speaker: And so, man, this is a good creative outlet for him to do.
Speaker: Um, I don't know.
Speaker: I've heard both ways that he, you know, jumped ship, essentially left.
Speaker: And I've also heard that, you know, Stern asked him to retire.
Speaker: So I don't know exactly what the full story is there.
Speaker: Well, OK, is it one or is it really one or two?
Speaker: I know it could be a lot of things, right?
Speaker: Usually these things aren't one.
Speaker: It's not binary, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like it's the, the two options would be JJP came and dumped a briefcase of money on his, uh, on his front door.
Speaker: And he decided that, well, I can't refuse that.
Speaker: Or it could be that Stern said, you know what?
Speaker: I think we're done here.
Speaker: Um, I'm sure it's probably a combination of, of many things and neither is, is the, is the only story.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker: The problem is, is you got two sides of the story and the truth somewhere in the middle, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But, you know, at the same time, I OK, this is like the this is like the trades, right?
Speaker: In sports.
Speaker: OK, how would you rank JJP winner or loser?
Speaker: As far as a team or what?
Speaker: What do you mean by winner or loser?
Speaker: Steve joining JJP.
Speaker: I think it's a win.
Speaker: I think it brings seniority to the team.
Speaker: Oh, definitely seniority.
Speaker: I mean, Pat and Steve, they're pushing the AARP cards.
Speaker: Steve said when we did the interview, he was 71 years old.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Holy cow.
Speaker: And I think he's younger than Pat.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: He might be.
Speaker: I don't...
Speaker: They might be the exact same age.
Speaker: I think I looked this up today.
Speaker: I sent you over that picture of some Irish fighter named Pat Lawler, too.
Speaker: And I was like, what the heck is this?
Speaker: Oh, really?
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Because if you Google Pat Lawler, it does bring up the pinball...
Speaker: You know, the man who, yeah, he's 70 years old.
Speaker: So Pat Lawler is one year younger than Steve Ritchie.
Speaker: Okay, but come on.
Speaker: They are, they are, they could have gone to high school together.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker: I'm pretty sure there was a DeLorean there.
Speaker: But my point being is, is...
Speaker: When a lot of teams are put together in sports, you usually have a good mix of young and old, and it's because the older brings usually good presence to the locker room, and they help teach the younger.
Speaker: What better way to teach the younger at JJP than bringing in someone that had massive sales,
Speaker: redefining mechs made for pinball machines and i think it gives opportunity for steve to spread his his wings um steve is is he can kind of create under not pressure but like his timeline's a lot shorter than what i would assume pat lawler's is so maybe they're bringing him to help pat i just don't know there's a lot of speculation
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: The theory is Pat has taken over over JJP.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And he is running JJP is at least from like the inspirational head.
Speaker: And so this is why it really surprises me.
Speaker: And it could just be that old time rivals are friends again.
Speaker: And they both, at least since they, you know, they graduated at the same time and they've been in the industry at the same time, maybe they have a similar, you know, it's like going out with someone who is a different demographic.
Speaker: Sometimes it's hard to talk to them about anything because they don't have any sort of frame of reference.
Speaker: So having them both work together may have worked.
Speaker: And I guarantee the only way Steve is at JJP is because Pat wanted him there.
Speaker: Do you think?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Unless it's the owner, like the owner who's collecting vintage game designers.
Speaker: Well, and it's funny because I really got thinking about this.
Speaker: We've talked to multiple designers from all the companies out there.
Speaker: And they said there's not really... It's not that it's like... They are definitely competition.
Speaker: But they still talk.
Speaker: They still sit around.
Speaker: If they run into each other at lunch, it's not like they ignore each other.
Speaker: They still go out and sometimes get a beer together.
Speaker: And literally, they are like two blocks away from each other.
Speaker: Both of those facilities are so close.
Speaker: So it's hard to... It's such a small industry.
Speaker: Think about it.
Speaker: Most of the people that's working at Stern...
Speaker: has worked with the people at JJP, like really the only person that there's a lot of Eric, a lot of inbreeding.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, so, okay.
Speaker: So if you're Eric, um, are you excited or are you concerned?
Speaker: I'm excited.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I, I w I would agree with that because, uh, Eric is, he is, he still has, you know, at least 30 years of design in front of him.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And Kate legitimately, how many games do you think Pat and Steve have in them?
Speaker: What left?
Speaker: And this is, this is not their ability, but I mean, look at their timeline.
Speaker: They are, they are, they're still designing in a time when most people are retiring.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And if you look at this, this gets back to exactly why we said it was a confusing rumor is because, you know,
Speaker: JJP, they are only releasing games every like 18 months to two years.
Speaker: They really aren't in a high production design philosophy.
Speaker: So for them to change gears like this, this tells me that either they are planning on expanding and releasing more games, at least a game a year or a game every nine months or something like that.
Speaker: That's one option.
Speaker: Or two, yeah, that maybe Steve is more interested in tinkering.
Speaker: But do you really think he's more interested in tinkering than designing at this point?
Speaker: Probably.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I mean, it's, it seems like most designers are more interested in, Hey, we're going to talk about the cool things and then let them figure it out.
Speaker: Like the most of the guys who designed the mechs are mechanical engineers.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I don't know.
Speaker: I, it seems interesting to me, but I would, I agree with you in that this is a win for JJP.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Next.
Speaker: Well, what's funny too, is like when we did the interview, um,
Speaker: At the end of the interview, Steve Ritchie was like, guys, if you ever need anything or you ever have any questions, don't go to the rumors.
Speaker: Come straight to me.
Speaker: Here's my phone number, right?
Speaker: I tried to call him this week and his phone's not on.
Speaker: I don't know if it was a Stern phone.
Speaker: I don't think so.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, that's funny.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, okay.
Speaker: But that's, you know, Steve's going to follow his own path.
Speaker: So I'm happy for him.
Speaker: It seems like something's going on that he felt it was, well, whatever.
Speaker: In the cards, it was time to change.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: So for Stern, do you consider it a win or a loss or something else?
Speaker: Okay, here's the reality of Stern.
Speaker: This is what I really thought about this past week.
Speaker: They are going with new young blood.
Speaker: And granted, I guess Keith's not really young, but he's fresh to the designing part.
Speaker: He's a fresh designer.
Speaker: Yeah, and he's still... Okay, Keith still has 20 years of design in front of him.
Speaker: Oh, easily.
Speaker: But think about it.
Speaker: What have the hires been?
Speaker: Raymond Davidson.
Speaker: I mean, that dude's younger than I am.
Speaker: You've got...
Speaker: tim sexton i think we're the same age as well they're in their late 20s early 30s tim's young yeah yeah and you just had steve ritchie teaching him how coding and stuff go well with design i mean there's a lot of fresh young blood down there really what does seniority fall to probably gomez or john borg those are probably the two that have been working there the longest now john borg would be because he was originally with data east and just kind of kept going yeah just kept going
Speaker: Which is weird to think because I don't feel like John's really that old.
Speaker: And nor is George.
Speaker: Well, okay.
Speaker: George isn't a spring chicken.
Speaker: True, but I guess compared to Steve Ritchie, they're all kind of young.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I feel like they're going in a young direction, which brings me to my next question.
Speaker: If Steve's gone, we have Eddie, Keith Owen, John Borg.
Speaker: Those are our three designers right now.
Speaker: So who fills the gap?
Speaker: Because when we did the interview, Steve...
Speaker: did say he was working on a game yeah yeah may 1st he was like the white was done it's flipping yeah so obviously either does Gomez take that over or is there a new designer that we don't know about
Speaker: I, okay.
Speaker: Is it, is it possible that it's Gomez?
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: I mean, Gomez has come in with when things have shaken up and he has, he has changed and, and tweak things, right?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: We all know about the Deadpool story and I totally agree with Stern's deciding to,
Speaker: to dump everything from before and start afresh, but they still had the license.
Speaker: It was still a, a theme that resonated with a younger crowd.
Speaker: And George was able to, I would say design an excellent game.
Speaker: Um, the, so what do we do with this now?
Speaker: I would say that Steve Ritchie's game is... The Whitewood is probably pretty good.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Steve has, I would say, been a little mixed lately to the success of the games.
Speaker: But we all know that he knows how to do a layout.
Speaker: Okay?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: And so if they have a Whitewood that they've been spending time on and he's been doing it, this has happened before in pinball in many times where the original designer...
Speaker: leaves a contract thing.
Speaker: Dennis Nordman famously leaves before any of his games are relatively released, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But they still are able to, to tune it up and to release it into.
Speaker: And when I say tune it up, I, the white wood is not, the reason why it's called the white wood is because it is not the finished wood, right?
Speaker: It's they, they still have to move posts and tweak.
Speaker: And so to dial in the geometry.
Speaker: So there is now, this could also be an opportunity to bring someone on.
Speaker: I, I,
Speaker: Is it possible that he's been collaborating with someone and that person takes it through?
Speaker: Or is it possible that Gomez does it?
Speaker: I would say someone who at least has experience with the game will finish it.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: But they're going to have to fill the hole, right?
Speaker: Because the design machine at Stern is roughly every 15 months.
Speaker: So which way are you leaning then?
Speaker: Are you leaning Gomez?
Speaker: Are you leaning...
Speaker: Someone that's maybe working at Stern that's stepping up as designer now or someone may fresh blood?
Speaker: I would say that George is going to be involved.
Speaker: I would say that it's going to be a few people, but I would say that George will give the blessing for the game.
Speaker: Because George has done it long enough in that he can take a Whitewood and fix whatever lingering issues are with it and be able to do it.
Speaker: Now, he won't take credit for it, but it could be like a joint effort between that.
Speaker: Now, I also don't think it's only going to be George.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker: I think they will find someone to fill that, to take it that last 10 yards, but with Gomez as being the advisor.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: I honestly think... I like your logic, but I really think there is a new designer at Stern that we don't know about yet, and they're just keeping things under wraps, and we won't know until when Richie's game should release, which will be spring of 2022 to summer of 2022, is my guess on the window.
Speaker: Really?
Speaker: You don't think they'll announce a new designer?
Speaker: Because I do.
Speaker: I think they will.
Speaker: I think they'll announce it, but I don't think they'll do it...
Speaker: before L1's games released.
Speaker: I highly doubt they'll do it before John Borg's.
Speaker: It gives you a small window.
Speaker: Yeah, I think they will announce at some point, though.
Speaker: Maybe at Expo.
Speaker: Maybe that will be the Expo release.
Speaker: Because didn't he say, oh, by the way, we hired Brian Eddy back.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, they did Eddie at Texas Pinball.
Speaker: Oh, you're right.
Speaker: Yeah, sorry.
Speaker: But that's the thing that brings up a really... Yeah, but that brings up a great point is they announced Eddie and then it felt like forever before Eddie actually came out with a game because I felt like, didn't they announce Eddie and then Elwyn?
Speaker: And then Elwyn came out with Iron Maiden.
Speaker: No, no, no.
Speaker: Elwyn was there.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: No, I just, I felt like for some odd reason, Eddie, like everyone was like, where is Eddie's game?
Speaker: Where is this game?
Speaker: You know?
Speaker: No, I think that Elwin was already, if I'm remembering correctly, he had already come out with Iron Maiden.
Speaker: So let's move on.
Speaker: I think we've, we've, we've hit this with, we've, we've ran this gas out on this one.
Speaker: I would actually be curious to find out what you, the listeners want to say.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: Because it still seems a little puzzling to me, Steve, moving, because it's obviously not going to be the same grind at Stern.
Speaker: And maybe that is something that is that is attractive to him.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, you can't tell me right now with how well games are selling that they're going to go back to three designers.
Speaker: They have got to bring in another designer.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They have to do four.
Speaker: I don't think you can churn out a game a year and have the same level of polish that they're used to.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So, and I can't, I guarantee Gomez isn't going to step into that role just because he's talked about an interview and interview in the past.
Speaker: I mean, he's done three or four interviews in the last couple of years that he's just said,
Speaker: I enjoy designing, but I just can't do it.
Speaker: There's just too much on my plate.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: So let's move on.
Speaker: We'll still stick with Stern, though.
Speaker: Do you believe the Lyman sheets?
Speaker: I still haven't heard of official confirmation like we saw with the video of Steve Ritchie arriving at JJP.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I would bet that Lyman is transitioning at some point to something.
Speaker: And I'm not sure what that is.
Speaker: He's been doing the deep dives on the boutique games.
Speaker: So he did the deep dive on Batman 66.
Speaker: And he did the deep dive on Elvira.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Is it possible that he wants to continue to do deep dives on passion projects?
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: Because I guarantee people in pinball who see it's a Lyman game, they will buy it.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Because it's a stamp of quality and he has a proven track record of
Speaker: making magic, even with play fields that have been panned at first.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: In notoriously Walking Dead, people did not like the layout.
Speaker: They did not like that.
Speaker: And Lyman's Code changed that to a fan favorite.
Speaker: And Batman 66, the same thing.
Speaker: Everyone felt like it was clunky.
Speaker: It wasn't a great shooting game.
Speaker: And Lyman's the one who sprinkled his dust on there and made it what the game is today.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And Elvira, I still haven't played Elvira because there's not that many here.
Speaker: But I've heard the same thing that people really like it.
Speaker: Every time I play it, I really like it.
Speaker: So it's, there is, now, is there an incentive for a competitor to hire Lyman?
Speaker: Or is it possible that Lyman transitions away from a major designer to a boutique designer and also independently?
Speaker: So, and that transitions to, we all have speculated and pretty much all but confirmed that Cactus Canyon is the next CCR game.
Speaker: Or sorry, sorry, the next Chicago CGC game.
Speaker: And so I, if, if Lyman transitions away from being a main designer and does more of Lyman projects that he wants to do, it would be a natural fit for him to take over that code and actually make it a great game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So now I don't know that for sure at all.
Speaker: This is me speculating, but it makes at least reasonable sense that he has experience coding those games from the nineties.
Speaker: And he at least is very familiar with those layouts.
Speaker: When I listened to the pinball show this week, Zach many and Dennis Creasel.
Speaker: Hey guys, they talked about maybe he's working contract now for Stern.
Speaker: And that kind of makes sense to me.
Speaker: Like I said, I'm going to go back.
Speaker: I'm going to keep going back to the Steve Rich interview just because it's the most recent interview done with Steve.
Speaker: But he mentioned multiple times in that interview, Lyman being there and playing games like his games and giving his advice on those games.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, I would say that since Lyman is not in the normal rotation, that makes sense that he can.
Speaker: And really from a business standpoint, it makes sense to transition him to a contract worker because if he's not going to be producing at the same volume as the other people, then it's difficult to justify someone's salary when they're working on one game for two and a half, three years.
Speaker: And it really is.
Speaker: When you're looking at the amount of games they sell, yes, it sells that game and there's a premium associated with that.
Speaker: But it's still challenging to say, hey, we're paying your three-year salary for one game.
Speaker: It's hard to make that matter.
Speaker: But if it's a contract, he's like, hey, you're contracted to do this game.
Speaker: then it makes sense for him to be able to say, okay, well, I also want to branch out a little bit.
Speaker: I've done this for Stern for a long time.
Speaker: Well, and we tend to forget, you know, we talk about Lyman's games, but we tend to forget he did do the spike system.
Speaker: He's been working on other stuff that isn't just the coding of games.
Speaker: And that's true.
Speaker: And so maybe that's another reason too, that they,
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It just, from the way it sounded when we talked to Steve in May, Lyman was still there.
Speaker: So this idea of people claiming that he's been gone for months, I mean, I guess that's still technically months, but someone had claimed it was like eight, nine months he'd been gone.
Speaker: I don't buy it either.
Speaker: But then again, we didn't buy the Steve Ritchie thing.
Speaker: So, okay.
Speaker: But there's been no, like, uh, there's, there's no rumor on a subreddit forum forum.
Speaker: I mean, there was one rumor like four years ago, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: This isn't really, again, it's not a go-to place, which really shocks me that whoever wanted to leak that information did it on subreddit.
Speaker: It still just kind of blows my mind.
Speaker: It was obviously intentionally leaked there because it was so far outside what the normal channels are for pinball are.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I could really see him do Cactus Canyon.
Speaker: Could you?
Speaker: Oh, yeah, definitely.
Speaker: I mean, I've always felt like Cactus Canyon is that Lyman, Eddie.
Speaker: It's in the wheelhouse.
Speaker: Yeah, it's just that family out with the same kind of attack for Mars, medieval madness kind of code.
Speaker: It would not shock me if he was there.
Speaker: Yeah, because if you look at his thing, Elvira was the last game.
Speaker: 2019.
Speaker: And yeah, he's had stuff.
Speaker: Then he did an ACDC polish.
Speaker: Then he did Batman 66, which was 2016.
Speaker: And then he had The Walking Dead, which was 2014.
Speaker: Metallica 2013.
Speaker: ACDC 2012.
Speaker: So he had a lot of big things going on.
Speaker: But oh my gosh, I didn't realize he was associated with Avatar.
Speaker: But also, like I said, though, he's also done Spike, Spike 2.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: We know the internet connectivity has been coming from Stern.
Speaker: He's probably been working on the coding for that.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: I just, I don't know.
Speaker: There's a lot more layers to this onion.
Speaker: Well, I think it's certainly possible for him to still be working on side projects.
Speaker: It could be that he's...
Speaker: He wants to take a break from these deep dives, but, um, you know, I, I don't know.
Speaker: I, at, at this point I'm, I'm convinced that I'm 2% right on everything.
Speaker: So, so here we go.
Speaker: I'm, I'm, I'm going to go out on a limb and say, I, I don't know.
Speaker: I do firmly believe that there's a new designer at Stern, but I could be entirely wrong.
Speaker: I think there's a new designer.
Speaker: I would, I would bet that Lyman is still involved, whether or not full time, but as a contract worker, uh,
Speaker: It does surprise me that he hasn't been announced because typically we know, you know, we know that, that Keith generally does his own, his own layout and his rule set architecture by, by letting, you know, that his team work on everything else too, to, to tune it in.
Speaker: But Lyman probably wouldn't be working on that in, you know, in the Steve Ritchie,
Speaker: sorry, Lyman wouldn't be working on that as like a an subcoder, if you know what I mean.
Speaker: Like he'd be the guy pulling the strings.
Speaker: Well, heck, hasn't Lyman been working mostly with Cam and Cal lately anyway?
Speaker: It's a possibility he could be working for Kapow, which is essentially Stern anyway.
Speaker: Like Kapow is not going to be releasing stuff.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker: So yeah, and maybe there's a Kapow game out there that we just don't know about.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so I'm not too worried about it just yet.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think we'll know more here soon.
Speaker: Or maybe we won't know anything at all.
Speaker: Hopefully.
Speaker: Well, we'll know something.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Let's get to the... I already know the title of this episode.
Speaker: And so I know people are going to be clicking on this to hear what Scott has to say.
Speaker: Um, do we get to the letter from deep root first, or do I get to the breaking news about deep root that we just received?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Oh, wow.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And you know what?
Speaker: I, I want you to surprise because I didn't get this.
Speaker: You got this when we started recording.
Speaker: So I don't even know who sent it to see you, but deep root is the gift that keeps given when it comes to information to talk about.
Speaker: I, I, I, this guy just, I, I'm, I'm so in love with this guy right now.
Speaker: Because it is a train wreck that keeps like winding.
Speaker: He crashes.
Speaker: And then for some reason, the train keeps going and keep crashing.
Speaker: Like this is it.
Speaker: You go to a NASCAR race to see crashes.
Speaker: And this guy has a crash every lap.
Speaker: So, okay, I'm going to read this because I love this so much that it is super obvious that this guy does not have anybody writing for him.
Speaker: So this is definitely Bobby Mueller writing.
Speaker: Dear Raza customer, we are sorry for the length of time without an update.
Speaker: We've been contacted by a few of you within the last few weeks.
Speaker: The main topics were how many people took the refund offer in parentheses three.
Speaker: Is the refund offer still available in parentheses?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Uh, and what's the status of the Raza builds here?
Speaker: A legal matter affecting Raza rose around a month ago, around a month ago.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: This is me interjecting here.
Speaker: Like, are you serious?
Speaker: Like how long has this been going on?
Speaker: And then a month ago.
Speaker: So this guy is, okay.
Speaker: He, he has a never ending supply of the dog ate my homework.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Like seriously, it's like, oh, the checks in the mail.
Speaker: Oh, really?
Speaker: Oh, you know what?
Speaker: I'm printing the money.
Speaker: Oh, wait, no, really?
Speaker: You know what?
Speaker: I am inventing my own bank and there's some regulations here.
Speaker: I'm just totally getting all this set up.
Speaker: So the fact that he's again throwing chum in the water, that this lawsuit happened.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So a legal matter affecting Rosler rose around a month ago that we did not expect.
Speaker: We were, and by the way, isn't this guy, isn't this guy in law, involved in law?
Speaker: That's what I thought his primary gig was.
Speaker: Okay, yeah, okay.
Speaker: We were advised by Council to not send out any substantive communication while they work to resolve it amicably.
Speaker: We have taken that advice while patiently waiting for it to resolve.
Speaker: Yeah, patiently because you're not doing anything.
Speaker: The back and forth has taken much, much longer than we expected.
Speaker: Kind of like releasing any game whatsoever.
Speaker: So we are providing this brief update so you understand what the delay is about.
Speaker: Okay, the delay is about you have no idea how to run a company.
Speaker: You have no idea how to actually design.
Speaker: You drank the Kool-Aid that J-Pop was pouring around and then you decided to make this Molotov cocktail with it, light it on fire and pour it over yourself and that's how you were going to make a pinball machine.
Speaker: We cannot discuss the parties or what the complaint is about.
Speaker: We cannot provide a timeline.
Speaker: Well, you've never provided a timeline, at least the time you've been able to stick to.
Speaker: What we can say is that we are working hard to resolve slash settle it.
Speaker: And we hope to be resolved very soon.
Speaker: I'll add parenthetically, very soon could mean like before like COVID ends.
Speaker: OK, yeah.
Speaker: In the next 20 years, we will be able to give a meaningful update at that time.
Speaker: Until then, dot, dot, dot.
Speaker: Robert J. Mueller, principal, deep root, deep root.
Speaker: OK, so this is like a joke high school because he even spelled it principal, you know, is how he's like your principal.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: like, okay, I cannot, I cannot unwrap this anymore.
Speaker: Like it, when I thought that by far it was the next announcement was, uh, uh, sincerely due to COVID, uh, we had great aspirations for this, but COVID completely gutted our abilities and it was all COVID and we're totally, uh, selling off our assets to, uh, I don't know, home pin or we're, we're selling it off to American pinball or, or whatever.
Speaker: The fact that this guy is like, no one cares anymore.
Speaker: Legitimately, no one cares about Deep Root.
Speaker: They're never going to sell a game.
Speaker: They're never going to produce a game.
Speaker: This is not a Gene Cunningham situation where come hell or high water, he is going to make Big Bang Bar.
Speaker: This guy has a sleeve of excuses, and I'm totally expecting him to buy hydrofoil just like Andrew Highway.
Speaker: I, this is, it's, it really has become so farcical at this point that I'm surprised this guy has a full-time job.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because it sounds like someone who is selling some multi-level marketing junk out of his basement that is going to cure cancer and take you to the moon.
Speaker: So, oh my gosh.
Speaker: Like, okay.
Speaker: I don't even know what else to say.
Speaker: Like, I'm surprised that only three took the refund.
Speaker: Why would you not take the refund?
Speaker: Well, I just,
Speaker: why would a lawsuit already pop up for Raza?
Speaker: Like there hasn't been enough time.
Speaker: When did they start taking funds?
Speaker: Like, I, I don't know.
Speaker: Like it's the fact that it's just so vague and just so weird that it just, it, it sounds, I'm sorry.
Speaker: It sounds like a con job right now.
Speaker: Scott, there's no chance.
Speaker: Oh my.
Speaker: Oh, it gets better.
Speaker: Oh, it gets better.
Speaker: Lay it on me.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: You ready for this?
Speaker: Bring it.
Speaker: We were sent an email right as our episode started recording.
Speaker: Uh, it doesn't say whether to say the gentleman's name or not.
Speaker: So I'm going to, I'm going to redact it from this, but he asked, is it usually considered a good sign or a bad sign when a company deletes their Facebook page?
Speaker: Same question goes for deep roots funds and what's related to it.
Speaker: Oh, wow.
Speaker: Go to it.
Speaker: Go to facebook.com slash deep root pinball right now.
Speaker: Oh, wow.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Deep root.
Speaker: I have deep root harvest.
Speaker: Nope.
Speaker: It should be Deep Root Pinball.
Speaker: And it gives you a little Facebook thumbs up with a band-aid on it saying this page is either broken or it has been deleted.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Oh, it gets better.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: You know, maybe someone hacked them or there could be something related to that, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I got thinking about it.
Speaker: I'm like, well, that's weird.
Speaker: I'll check.
Speaker: I know that Robert Mueller and I were quote unquote friends on Facebook.
Speaker: So I went to go look for him.
Speaker: He's disappeared too off of Facebook.
Speaker: What are, what are the odds?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: This is, this is definitely what happens when someone goes supernova is, Hey, but Robert Mueller, the sixth director of the FBI is still available.
Speaker: So you could get him.
Speaker: Maybe he can find Robert Mueller.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: When someone goes dark on the, on the internet, that means they are like, they have either left town already or they have completely jumped ship.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Well, at least their webpage is still up.
Speaker: You can still go to deep root pinball.com.
Speaker: Oh my gosh.
Speaker: And look at it.
Speaker: Raza.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But no, this is not a good sign.
Speaker: This is, this is not a good sign.
Speaker: Like I know that we've been kind of, well, I know how are you?
Speaker: I think everyone knows where Scott's been standing.
Speaker: Wait, contact information.
Speaker: I just kind of want to know contact page.
Speaker: There's a toll free number, like an 800 number at the bottom.
Speaker: Oh my gosh.
Speaker: I totally want to, if it weren't like 11 o'clock at night right now, I would totally call it.
Speaker: We should do it just to see what happens.
Speaker: It'll probably go to voicemail.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't care.
Speaker: Let's do this.
Speaker: You got it or you want me to do it?
Speaker: Go ahead.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I'm pulling it up right now.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Let's see if this rings through.
Speaker: To get the fastest help, please note the following email addresses.
Speaker: If you are an investor or an advisor, please email us at contact at deeprootfunds.com.
Speaker: Once again, that is contact at deeprudefunds.com.
Speaker: For all other inquiries, please email us at contact at deeprudetech.com.
Speaker: Once again, that is contact at deeprudetech.com.
Speaker: There you go.
Speaker: That's what it gives you.
Speaker: That's your toll free number.
Speaker: And then it hangs up on it.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Now one, that sounds like a, a basic computer generated automatic response, right?
Speaker: Like this is someone who typed it in and says, Hey, computer.
Speaker: It didn't reminds me of those dial up days.
Speaker: where, okay, it's like Gorgar talks.
Speaker: He's like, sure.
Speaker: The fact that this sounds like it was made on the Commodore 64 is not a good sign that that is Deep Root investing.
Speaker: Okay, seriously, the more and more I look at the logo that they decided to go with Deep Root,
Speaker: I mean, certainly just the imagery alone of a ball ramming into the earth and possibly something else.
Speaker: It definitely just tells you what is going on.
Speaker: in the in this company wait raza in action view now yeah it just has the sizzle reel from the summer i'm half tempted i know this is terrible um but that that little automatic voice thing yeah how it goes so email us at deep root funds at gmail or whatever it is i'm half tempted to clip that where it says
Speaker: Again, that is deep root F you done.
Speaker: You could put that as your, your text tone.
Speaker: Oh my goodness.
Speaker: Oh my gosh.
Speaker: Have you gone to deep root funds?
Speaker: Huh?
Speaker: What's deep root funds?
Speaker: It's a private equity fund.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I'm just looking at like, uh, okay.
Speaker: I know, I know a little bit about designing, um,
Speaker: Designing web pages, right?
Speaker: My brother does like web design.
Speaker: This.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: This doesn't look super professional.
Speaker: This looks like something that you could do yourself, which he probably did.
Speaker: This isn't.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: If you if you put in deep root funds, it comes up as an investment service in San Antonio.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: allocation philosophy.
Speaker: There's only one deep root.
Speaker: We have designed an investment structure never before created.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Doesn't this sound like the hedge fund dude who like took all the money that they couldn't figure out?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And ran.
Speaker: It's Bernie Madoff.
Speaker: While investment funds have been around for many years, the rise in popularity of funds here in the United States for the last 40 years was driven by an effort to simplify blah, blah, blah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: At Deeper, we have designed our private investment funds around a four-pronged approach to investing.
Speaker: Be bold but simple by adhering to fund types which complement blah, blah, blah, overpromise blah, blah, blah, never deliver anything blah, blah, blah, delete Facebook page.
Speaker: So there's the four-step approach.
Speaker: Dude, this is not good.
Speaker: This is not a good sign.
Speaker: Oh, geez.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I have not seen someone crater this bad since... I'm trying to figure out like...
Speaker: what sort of person came in with this, with this like big, it's like, it's like erupting into the earth at a thousand miles an hour.
Speaker: This is like the, the, the meteor that hit like in, in Mexico and destroyed all the dinosaurs.
Speaker: Yeah, it's wow.
Speaker: Dude, this is not good.
Speaker: I wonder, this is terrible of me, like, I don't know John Papaduke as a person.
Speaker: Like, he's probably a wonderful guy.
Speaker: He's probably a good family man.
Speaker: No, no, no, he is not.
Speaker: He is not.
Speaker: He's deeply flawed.
Speaker: Not when it comes to business.
Speaker: I'm saying, like, probably on a personal level, who knows.
Speaker: You don't know that.
Speaker: There are horrible people out there.
Speaker: What I'm saying is, is, I don't mean this as, like, a personal stab at him.
Speaker: I'll stab.
Speaker: I'll stab.
Speaker: Papa Duke is what tanks your company.
Speaker: After listening to the Silver Ball Chronicles today and listening to them talk about how Star Wars Episode I is what made them pull the plug at Williams and kill the pinball division.
Speaker: And guess who designed that?
Speaker: John Papa Duke.
Speaker: I mean, everything that Papa Duke has touched since 1999...
Speaker: has tanked in one way or another and bad, like flames going up just bonfire style.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, that's a 22 year track record.
Speaker: How many successful years did he have?
Speaker: Well, that's the thing, though.
Speaker: Like, you listen to these interviews and stuff.
Speaker: I almost get the impression that Papa Duke didn't, like, he designed some of the stuff, but I think a lot of these designs were... Someone fixed them?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Papa Duke started them, someone fixed them, and then Papa Duke took the credit.
Speaker: Papa Duke had a way of making something look interesting.
Speaker: And that's what it was.
Speaker: Like, it has an interesting flair that is different than others, but it certainly is not a, wow, this is a, I don't know, I guess you can have some super fun games.
Speaker: Okay, the glory years are over.
Speaker: And this is Tito Jackson trying to release his singles.
Speaker: Dude, like, well, and think even Williams.
Speaker: Like, think of the games he made there.
Speaker: We've got World Cup soccer.
Speaker: We've got Toten, so Tales of Arabian Nights.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We've got Circus Voltaire.
Speaker: We've got Theater of Magic and Star Wars Episode I. And you think about it.
Speaker: By the time Star Wars Episode I happened, the ship was already going down.
Speaker: Like, Gomez and Pat Lawler, bless their souls, did everything in their path along with Larry DeMar to keep that ship afloat.
Speaker: And they did a fantastic job.
Speaker: I would still love... One of my favorite games is Revenge from Mars.
Speaker: And I wish... I wish they would have just released a couple more games.
Speaker: I wanted to see where this platform was going.
Speaker: It is what got me into pinball.
Speaker: Like, thank you, Gomez, for making Revenge from Mars.
Speaker: Because it just... It piqued my interest.
Speaker: Like, I'd never seen anything like it before.
Speaker: And no one's really seen anything like it since... Except for you could argue P3.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But my point being is, it's like...
Speaker: you listen to the silver ball Chronicles episode, like no spoilers or anything here.
Speaker: Cause a lot of this stuff's been out for 20 plus years.
Speaker: Like Gomez tried to convince Papa Duke not to do what he did with star Wars episode one and Papa Duke did it anyway.
Speaker: And so I just, I don't know, dude.
Speaker: Like I really think that people aren't in love with Papa Duke.
Speaker: I think they're in love with,
Speaker: the person that fixed Papa Dukes designs.
Speaker: I just don't think I didn't realize that really, uh, this entire list, he has, um, a co-designer or games.
Speaker: No, he has four games that I would consider any good.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: His world cup soccer, theater magic.
Speaker: So he, he had a three year window and I'll add one year for his development.
Speaker: He had four years, uh,
Speaker: Until he did Circus Voltaire.
Speaker: And it has been 24 years since then.
Speaker: It's all been turds.
Speaker: Dude, he, okay, here's Rick Springfield re-releasing Jessie's Girl.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: He has gotten so much.
Speaker: I didn't realize how criminally small his resume was.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: It is tiny.
Speaker: And like I said, it's not a knock on Papadook, but I really just... It's a knock on Papadook.
Speaker: I'm sorry.
Speaker: It's a knock.
Speaker: And that's... Wow.
Speaker: What a joke.
Speaker: Dude, I just... It's one of those situations where it's just like, it's time.
Speaker: Let's just call this quits.
Speaker: Dude, he was a one-hit... Like, that's it.
Speaker: He was a... Okay, he was a four-hit wonder.
Speaker: And that's it.
Speaker: But man, I didn't realize how he has more zizzle games.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And those zizzles are the ones you buy at like target for 20 bucks.
Speaker: Like I said, I really think that people need to understand.
Speaker: I don't think you're in love with Papa Duke.
Speaker: I think you're in love with the person that fixed Papa Duke's games at Williams.
Speaker: I'm looking behind the curtain that there is no wizard of Oz kids.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: So can we just please, I just, this deep root thing is going to go on though.
Speaker: That's the problem.
Speaker: Like Robert Mueller can run away as much as he wants, but he's, yeah.
Speaker: Sorry, kids.
Speaker: You're never getting your game.
Speaker: As I've said for a long time, you're never getting your game and I doubt you're going to get your money back.
Speaker: I seriously doubt you're going to get your money back.
Speaker: Well, I appreciate the person that emailed us and said, hey, I totally get it.
Speaker: But that person knew what they were getting into.
Speaker: And I appreciate that.
Speaker: I feel sorry for the person who felt like he was investing early in Wizard of Oz and ended up getting their Wizard of Oz.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: I just...
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: When their social media is gone, you are gone kids.
Speaker: Cause that is free.
Speaker: That is the only thing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The only thing they have is a website and a toll free number that goes to what you just heard.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So this isn't good.
Speaker: Woo.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Well, you know, it's,
Speaker: It's, it's just, okay.
Speaker: I will say the plus is there, okay.
Speaker: Let's talk about this winners and losers.
Speaker: Is there a plus side to this at all?
Speaker: Josh, it's a silver lining.
Speaker: Is there, is there anything about this that I would, I would say that hopefully the community has learned that we can't keep investing into these people that are nothing but fluff.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: I mean, really what startup company that has asked for money up front has worked out besides spooky.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I, I guess they, there is, okay.
Speaker: I will say there is one plus.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: There is one clear winner in the, um, well, okay.
Speaker: There's actually two winners in the, in the,
Speaker: the desolation of J pop that he has left.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: We have, we have zombie Yeti.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Cause he's the one who made Alice in Wonderland and look so pretty.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And him being discovered and coming into pinball has been great.
Speaker: There is also, and I know this is a little bit out of left field, American pinball.
Speaker: Yeah, true.
Speaker: Because American pinball thought, hey, there is something here.
Speaker: Look at the demand this complete clown drove.
Speaker: But they were smart in that as soon as they immediately saw who J-pop was, they did not play the Emperor's New Clothes card.
Speaker: They saw him for what he was, and they yeeted him out of there so fast that
Speaker: that he could actually, they could actually make, I would say a very successful startup, um, startup pinball company.
Speaker: And, and, and they're still, they are still cutting their baby teeth kids, but wow.
Speaker: Um, I would say American pinball and, and zombie Yeti.
Speaker: What about you?
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: I think that's about it.
Speaker: Maybe I just, I feel bad for Steve Bowden.
Speaker: I wanted to see what he produced.
Speaker: Like,
Speaker: If anything has been proven to us over the last five plus years, it's fresh blood that is higher up on the IFPA rankings that understand code make good code sets.
Speaker: Tim Sexton's killing it.
Speaker: Raymond Davidson's killing it.
Speaker: Bowen Cairns did great with Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle.
Speaker: Obviously, he's not super young, but still, he has fresh blood that knows his rule sets.
Speaker: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker: And Steve Bowden is definitely that person.
Speaker: He is fantastic when it comes to code.
Speaker: And so I just... Well, okay.
Speaker: Now, in fairness, we don't know.
Speaker: Steve is a great ambassador, and I don't know one person who doesn't like Steve.
Speaker: I'm hoping that because pinball is his passion, I'm hoping he does find the some way of making it a job.
Speaker: But we, you know, aside from being aside from being very successful in being the good guy in pinball, he's he's an unknown quantity.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: He really is.
Speaker: Unless if you've played Raza, which Raza was playable.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Two years ago.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: And I actually know a guy who played six hours on Raza.
Speaker: He used to work for Deep Root.
Speaker: And I talked to him about it and he said, it's nothing special.
Speaker: Oh.
Speaker: Like he was not impressed, not interested, didn't want to buy it.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: So I guess, okay, here's the other question too.
Speaker: Because some of the speculation too is, well, if Deep Root does actually go under, they'll sell their assets to another company.
Speaker: Can they even do that at this point if they're legally?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Okay, so Food Truck is going to be a big seller.
Speaker: Okay, let's say, because they said they had the Who and the Goonies.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: If they really do have those two licenses, it might be worth it for another company to go after them.
Speaker: But is it,
Speaker: the themes maybe, but those licenses are usually time, uh, like time, uh, sensitive.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They're time sensitive.
Speaker: They have to either do something with them within two to three years or they got to give back.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so I, I don't know.
Speaker: In some ways these things could be forever tainted.
Speaker: Like people will always associate that.
Speaker: It's, uh,
Speaker: And we all know we brought up before Deep Root or Deadpool.
Speaker: Deadpool did a complete gut job and rebuild from the ground up and were able to resurrect that title.
Speaker: But come on, is Goonies really that relevant now?
Speaker: I don't see it.
Speaker: They couldn't make Beetlejuice.
Speaker: They couldn't make Beetlejuice.
Speaker: They're not going to make Goonies.
Speaker: They're not going to make Superman 2.
Speaker: These things, we have some nostalgia for them, but are they marketable?
Speaker: I don't think so.
Speaker: I think some of them, yes, but I just... Okay, Queen, sure.
Speaker: I know Zach Manning's going to be upset with me, but I just don't get Goonies.
Speaker: Maybe it's because I didn't grow up in the 80s and watched that in the theaters as a child.
Speaker: We re-watched it just a couple years ago, my wife and I, and at the end of it, we're like...
Speaker: Like, I know it's a coming of age story, but it just, it didn't feel like it held up to this.
Speaker: It doesn't time.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: And what happens actually, a lot of times eighties were built on stereotypes.
Speaker: They really were.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's all about the, like, Hey, the kids in the eighties, like they were, it was terrible.
Speaker: Like watch home alone.
Speaker: Really try to watch it with your kids.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And,
Speaker: Half the time we're watching it, we're pausing it and saying, okay, so you know how these kids are not being nice to each other?
Speaker: You can't do that.
Speaker: This is not how we interact with people.
Speaker: They just allowed this horrible behavior and just said, oh, well, this is the stereotype, so we're just going to go with it.
Speaker: Goonies, when you watch 80s movies with your kids, you never realized how much swearing was in them when you watched them as a kid.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: Goonies has a lot of swearing in it.
Speaker: It's impressive how much swearing it is in it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I, I think a lot of these classic nostalgia themes, I, there's a reason why they have a marketing guy who will go out and check the viability of a theme.
Speaker: And I, I just don't see it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The games.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So, so let's go over these no longer.
Speaker: Oh, it's no longer for sale.
Speaker: Oh no.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: It's sad.
Speaker: It's like a time.
Speaker: Okay, I can't even pull up their games.
Speaker: They've probably pulled that off from their website too.
Speaker: It was Food Truck.
Speaker: It was Yukon Yeti.
Speaker: I actually had it recently.
Speaker: Yeah, I had it up last time.
Speaker: There's only... Okay, that's telling right there.
Speaker: All of their licenses are pulled.
Speaker: They just have Raza on there.
Speaker: And they have the fire and brimstone.
Speaker: I mean, who doesn't want to?
Speaker: They're honestly, this is what I'm, like I said, they're probably honestly trying to cover the rest of their assets that they have so that way they can hopefully salvage them and sell them to another company and not get them bound up in a legal suit, which is going to happen regardless.
Speaker: Oh, no, no, I found it.
Speaker: Sorry, I did find it.
Speaker: It's under upcoming games.
Speaker: Titled to be determined.
Speaker: Fire and Ripstone, Gladiator, Magic Girl, Machine Age, Food Truck, The Who, Merlin's Arcade, Yukon Yeti, Alice, Combative Racing, wait, Combative Racing License, Multiplex, Popular Board Game License, 80s Movie Life.
Speaker: Hey, seriously, this is a senior project in high school's brainstorming session.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: okay.
Speaker: The who maybe is the who relevant?
Speaker: And you might, okay.
Speaker: If, okay, they've already had a game.
Speaker: They've already had two games.
Speaker: I say, okay, but here's the problem.
Speaker: Does anybody in pinball want to listen to pinball wizard?
Speaker: I doubt it, but you never know.
Speaker: There might be still people out there that love the who that want another who pinball machine.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, I would take a Bon Jovi pinball machine.
Speaker: Yeah, I think there's bigger giants that are closer.
Speaker: Okay, these aren't even the A-list.
Speaker: This is like the C-list.
Speaker: Okay, Merlin's Arcade.
Speaker: Seriously, I'm looking at these things, and they look like games that I would download on my iPhone for $3 or the free play.
Speaker: The free games are like, hey, you want to buy a special food thing and we'll be able to get farther in the game?
Speaker: But the thing is, I guess we're running back to where we started.
Speaker: Everything's tanking.
Speaker: They're not going to be making any of these games.
Speaker: And everything you just said to me, I don't see that selling.
Speaker: The only thing that could sell, I mean, they obviously had some good talent at Deep Root.
Speaker: And that's kind of, I think that's another reason people got behind it is they saw that picture of seven or eight different people sitting around in that room.
Speaker: And they're, they're just like, yes, Barry Osler, Dennis Norman and stuff like that.
Speaker: Maybe I think that's the only thing that's going to save deep root or make them break even at this point or not even break.
Speaker: They're not going to break even.
Speaker: They have get out of a lawsuit.
Speaker: Hopefully this is a, this is a write-off situation where it's like I made money somewhere else.
Speaker: Hopefully.
Speaker: And I'm just going to use this as a loss.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So I just, I don't see, I don't see it happening anymore.
Speaker: No, no, no.
Speaker: It's, it's done.
Speaker: Once you're, once your free Facebook page goes, goes dark, you are done.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And your personal Facebook page goes dark.
Speaker: That's the one that gets me, man.
Speaker: That's I, when people go dark on Facebook, there's a reason.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: He's probably getting too many contacts, people asking questions.
Speaker: Probably was just easier to get rid of it.
Speaker: Yeah, I think so.
Speaker: Man, crazy, crazy, crazy.
Speaker: So you're telling me we won't see a Deep Root game at Expo?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I guess the other question too is, does Raza go down?
Speaker: Because there's obviously...
Speaker: prototype at least made yeah but okay it's i'm sorry it's someone who wants to collect a weird thing it's like having those those eight magic girls or whatever 20 years from now when people are talking about really obscure games yeah but you can't play it at least with an obscure title like big bang bar you can play it okay do you want play the one prototype do you want to
Speaker: Dude, people that collect those kind of games doesn't matter if it plays great or not.
Speaker: People who collect those kind of games have money to burn.
Speaker: Obviously, there's enough people out there that bought how many Magic Girls that were available from Zidware for $25,000.
Speaker: Well, they're idiots.
Speaker: I'm sorry.
Speaker: A game that... Okay, you buy it because it's art.
Speaker: You don't buy it because you want to play it.
Speaker: But a lot of people didn't know that when they were buying it.
Speaker: They should know now.
Speaker: You should.
Speaker: Dude, if you're going to be spending $25,000 on something, you should know what you're buying.
Speaker: So I did pull this up and this is interesting.
Speaker: So hopefully things are cool with Jeff Patterson.
Speaker: I just saw an update that was posted August 2nd.
Speaker: Hello fellow pinheads.
Speaker: Unfortunately, real life is going to
Speaker: force a short break from this, the weekly This Week in Pinball updates.
Speaker: There are a lot of interesting happenings going on in pinball in the world right now.
Speaker: We'll play catch up on everything when we return on August 23rd.
Speaker: As you, thank you as always for your support of This Week in Pinball and go play some pinball.
Speaker: Sincerely, Jeff, This Week in Pinball.
Speaker: So hope everything's cool with Jeff.
Speaker: Maybe he's just on a summer vacation, but if you need to step back from pinball for a while, that's what you do.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Well, and I texted him after I saw that.
Speaker: I texted him just asking him, hey, is everything fine?
Speaker: And he said, yeah, things are okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Maybe he got hired by DeepRoot.
Speaker: Maybe he is buying DeepRoot's assets.
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: It just, yeah.
Speaker: Oh, my goodness.
Speaker: Crazy stuff.
Speaker: Well...
Speaker: I think that does it for our show tonight.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because we're at a, yeah.
Speaker: It's just mind boggling, but all right.
Speaker: So, okay.
Speaker: So to recap loud, wrong on Steve Ritchie leaving, I, I wish him well.
Speaker: It's, it's still kind of head scratching to me, but I guess more will come out as, as time goes on.
Speaker: I'm sure someone, if someone does know something, go ahead and send us a message.
Speaker: We'd love to hear.
Speaker: Um, even anonymously.
Speaker: Uh, but, uh, yeah.
Speaker: And, uh, Deep Root, I'm hoping this is the final thing, but you know how it's kind of like Dutch pinball.
Speaker: You know how there was always these weekly train wrecks and then eventually it just kind of disappeared into the ether.
Speaker: I'm kind of hoping and thinking that's what's going to happen with Deep Root.
Speaker: Yeah, but the thing about Dutch pinball, people bought their assets and made the big Lebowski.
Speaker: But then again, the big Lebowski is actually a good design and was a complete game or for the most part was a complete game when it was shipping.
Speaker: Okay, but how relevant are you interested in anything Dutch pinball related right now?
Speaker: I've never played a Big Lebowski.
Speaker: I know where one is at.
Speaker: It's four hours away.
Speaker: I want to make a trip up there.
Speaker: I want to check this guy's collection out.
Speaker: I need to find time just to do it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I was intrigued in the Dutch pinball game.
Speaker: uh, bride of pin bot kit before it went, yeah, before it went from like, what was it?
Speaker: Two grand, three grand to buy up to like eight or $13,000 for the kit.
Speaker: And it's like, no, no, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: Yeah, so we'll see.
Speaker: If anyone knows anything more, let us know.
Speaker: This is us certainly speculating, but I would say Outlooks doesn't look good.
Speaker: I think Outlooks look fine for Steve, and I would say even all parties.
Speaker: I think this is one of those things that maybe shaking things up is probably a good thing.
Speaker: And then with Deep Root, again, just another spectacular crash that did not need to happen.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: But they set themselves up for failure on that one, man.
Speaker: No one else did that for them.
Speaker: Well, I'm still waiting for those five days of deep root.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And it sounds like you'll be waiting a long time.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, my goodness.
Speaker: Well, if you want to get a hold of us, we are LoserKidPinballPodcast at gmail.com.
Speaker: We're also on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at LoserKidPinballPodcast.
Speaker: Sorry, just at LoserKidPinball.
Speaker: I promise you we haven't deleted our social media pages.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: I did just get a new, uh, box of, uh, swag, which reminds me, expo's coming up.
Speaker: Scott and I are going to expo.
Speaker: If you want a shirt, if you want a hat, you don't want to pay.
Speaker: If you're coming from Canada, if you're coming from Australia, if you're coming from over in Europe, you want one of these things, you don't want to pay the ridiculous shipping or whatever.
Speaker: Let me know.
Speaker: Email me at loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com.
Speaker: Let's get this taken care of.
Speaker: Cause I want to get this stuff, uh,
Speaker: to Expo.
Speaker: I'll probably have to ship it to Expo instead of taking on the airplane with me.
Speaker: We're going to have to get it figured out, but I want to get all the orders taken care of.
Speaker: We'll have orders open probably until the end of September, so that way we can get them all printed and ready to go.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, absolutely.
Speaker: And hey, Steve, Steve Govea, I haven't forgot about you.
Speaker: I do have your beanie, but it's probably a million degrees down in San Diego, so I'll give that to you.
Speaker: And Tealus, we finally get to give you your hat and shirt, man.
Speaker: So you better be at Expo.
Speaker: We got a baby tee for you, Steve.
Speaker: Or Jeff, sorry.
Speaker: Oh, my goodness.
Speaker: Other than that, I think this was quicker than the two weeks we talked about last time.
Speaker: Hey, when the news wakes up, we have to talk about it.
Speaker: I guess we'll see you in two weeks, Scott.
Speaker: All right, we'll see you.
Speaker: Bye.
Speaker: D-Proved.
Speaker: F-U-R.
