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#12 - EuroClojure Preview
43 Plays9 years ago
We talk about the talks in a meta-tastic preview of the upcoming EuroClojure conference in Bratislava, Slovakia
More notes at http://defn.audio
Recommended
Transcript
Podcast Milestone and Feedback
00:00:27
Speaker
Which episode are we on, by the way? 12. 12, yeah. Welcome to Daffod! Episode 12! We lost count there. It's such a big number. I think after 10, everything is a blur for us. We don't care anymore. We've been there forever.
00:00:48
Speaker
In internet history, in internet age, I mean, this is like, we're the granddaddy's of closure podcast now. So, it's a big number. I think what's interesting about being 12, my son is 12 actually. And it's kind of like, you know, it's the one before teenage years.
00:01:06
Speaker
And it's always the awkward one. It's like we're a bit pre-teen now. Kind of wanting to grow up, but not quite ready for it yet. Wanting a responsibility, but not quite able to handle it. Yeah. So there'll be a lot of emotional drama from next episode. Oh, big time. Big time. We're going to get very moody. Very moody. Our teen years are going to start. And generally everything will be very unfair. So unfair. Oh my God.
00:01:35
Speaker
Anyway. All right, so let's get on to the show. A bit of feedback, actually. A bit of feedback. We got a mention on the REPL by Daniel Compton this week. Unbeknownst to us, actually, we've made a few scoops, apparently. In the last episode with Alex Miller, he gave a bit of stuff away, which we should have bigged up a bit more, I think.
00:02:01
Speaker
One of the things was that he said that there could be some extra features in 1.9 that I think was, yeah. It was not revealed before or nobody knew, at least. Well, we still don't know actually, do we? We just know that they're thinking about it. So whether it actually will come in 1.9 or whatever, that's still open to question, I guess. Yeah. And also the GA might not be this year for 1.9. So it might go longer in terms of the beta releases.
00:02:31
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think he was pretty clear about that, wasn't he? So that was a genuine scoop, that one, because the other thing was a little bit, yeah, something might happen, something might not happen. So, yeah, I can't really claim that one. Maybe Alex Miller wants to come back to the show. So, you know, he's just leaving some loose ends here and there. Yeah, it's like one of those, like, series, you know, the cliffhanger. Exactly.
Technical Improvements and Euroclosure Excitement
00:02:54
Speaker
So he'll be back on episode number 22 because he was in it on 11 and then he'll be back on 22 and that'll be so fun. Okay, that's a good way of doing it actually.
00:03:06
Speaker
Right, OK, so that's good. I think that was a bit of feedback we got was there was a little bit of quality issue on the sound last time. Yeah. With a few clicks and stuff. So that was a bit of a shame. But we did try and get rid of it. I think overall it was still it was still it was still OK for I think for most most people. But it was a little bit of
00:03:27
Speaker
few clicks there so we're sorry about that hopefully this one will be back to normal and we're gonna watch out in the future for those kind of things because it's very easy to clean up most effects most artifacts on the audio but if you've got something repetitive like keyboards and clicks or whatever in the actual audio itself
00:03:46
Speaker
It's very difficult for it to clean that out. Anyway, we'll be more careful and we apologize for the clickety noises. Exactly. Yeah. All right. So let's turn the attention then to what's coming up next in the closure world. And of course, the big thing for us is Euroclosure. Of course. And we will actually be an official
00:04:12
Speaker
media sponsor of the Eurocload. We're not actually giving them any money, but we're still an official media sponsor. We're giving them our time and attention, which I think is probably worth more than money in all honesty. We're giving them our approval and our backing and our full support. I mean, getting endorsement from two minor internet celebrities, we are
00:04:36
Speaker
It's a big deal, I would guess. But I mean, we are super excited to be there. And I think we are going to get a nice place to stand there and then distribute some goodies to the guys and girls there, the closureians.
00:04:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think where it has been the exhibit area, obviously we don't know the layout of the conference yet, but where all the people are doing their sponsors and exhibits, we will have a table there as well. So we'll have a huge area where we have the disco ball and everything and the DJ and a lot of audio equipment and the party and stuff like that.
00:05:11
Speaker
Yeah. And are you going to be wearing your white suit with the flares? And then doing the Jantra world dance. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Well, you'd be recognizable. I mean, that's a good thing. Yeah. Actually, we have got some we have got some clothing, haven't we? Unfortunately, we haven't got enough to give away. But people people will see us in our deafen. You're saying as if, you know, we everybody is expecting us to show up there without clothes or something.
00:05:40
Speaker
Oh, God. That would really be bad. We've got some clothing. Of course we have got some clothing. We are going to be in clothes there.
00:05:49
Speaker
But yeah, we've got deaf and hoodies, but those are right now crew only, unfortunately. So we'll figure out a way eventually to raise enough money to give free hoodies to everybody in the world. But for now, unfortunately, you have to bear us in the fancy, deaf and clothing.
00:06:10
Speaker
Well, actually, I mean, if people do want this
Event Planning and Community Building
00:06:15
Speaker
kind of stuff, we can always get some feedback on Twitter or whatever, because it's relatively easy to do. But obviously, we've got a massive audience at the moment, but it's not quite enough to sustain a small t-shirt run.
00:06:30
Speaker
And also, we'll be giving away some nice stickers, by the way. So if people are who are sticker aficionados. And as you might have noticed, the folks who are long-term listeners of this podcast, long-term as in the last episode at least,
00:06:47
Speaker
And we have new branding going on. So we got a fancy logo designed by Lubov. She is an excellent designer. And she is also the designer for, she also designed the branding for our Dutch closure day, by the way, last year. So we have this new logo stickers and of course the hoodies, the exclusive limited edition crew hoodies that are basically
00:07:12
Speaker
for just Ray and I and maybe one more, I think. We'll see. And we got some mugs, I think, to give away to the people who participate in DEFIN during the conference. Yeah, a few little bits and pieces now. If we're quite leftovers, we'll distribute them amongst the well-wishers.
00:07:35
Speaker
I have a quick, not an announcement though, but so last year we had this Dutch closure day and we are now planning for the Dutch closure day 2017 in Amsterdam. So we just kick started the discussions on how to
00:07:55
Speaker
Yeah, organize the event, et cetera, et cetera. And for people who don't know, I met Ray at Dutch Closure Day, and I think that Deffen was a result of Dutch Closure Day ranting during the lunch. That's right. It was conceived there. Yeah. Yeah. So that's an interesting thing happening. So more details will follow up pretty soon, I think. The organizers are getting around and then trying to figure out how we're going to announce it, et cetera. So keep your
00:08:25
Speaker
tweet feed refreshing. If that was a good event though, it was very bijou, let's say, but it was well attended. A couple of good sponsors, very friendly crowd. I got to speak to a lot of people there. I was probably the first conference I'd been to where I spoke to
00:08:47
Speaker
more than like two or three people outside of the people that I knew. But actually we've got a few people coming from Belgium, in the Belgium meetup group, the co-organiser, Stane, is coming. And I've got a few guys that I know also from the group and from work that are closureians now.
00:09:10
Speaker
Are you allowed to say Clujurian, by the way? I don't know. I think so. Screw it. That's what the Slack's called, so why not? It's Clujurian, so Clujurians. I don't know. I don't know. I get some confusion in the world about what we're allowed to say. Anyway, it doesn't matter. It's our show. Exactly.
00:09:30
Speaker
All right, so good. And so those guys are coming and then obviously I'll see you there. Yeah. Maybe we'll see a few of the few listeners, etc. So it will be quite nice. It would be quite a big, big crew, I think. Yeah. Which will make it more of a fun event for me for sure. And hopefully for all of us. Of course, of course. I mean, we're looking forward for it. I mean, last year organizing it has been
00:09:53
Speaker
tremendous fun. I mean we had super fun and we had lots of generous sponsors to make sure the event is happening. So this time we are still planning ahead and we got plenty of nice feedback so we'll keep the same kind of vibe at the event. That's the idea.
00:10:11
Speaker
So anyway, so the so obviously this episode, we don't have any guests or anything. So as you can see, this is going on in the events team. So we thought it would be nice to discuss. I'll do kind of a pre euro closure before we go there, actually, we've got one more thing to announce. So I've got one more thing to announce, which is the thing.
00:10:32
Speaker
One more thing, just a quickie. We're going to do a Deaf Ray episode. It's an unsession on the evening, and we'll put a link to the GitHub page. You have to edit the GitHub page and add your name. Okay, Vijay, you have to do that. Yes, I will.
00:10:54
Speaker
and I know if you're removing people, okay? But so far we've got some people, so I'm hoping it should just be like 10 minutes in between the other sessions, so it's not going to be, you know, an hour.
00:11:06
Speaker
an hour long of this craziness, but it should be like a fun 10 minutes. So if you can add your name to that, that would be good. If any listener can add their name as well, that would be great. And just like I said, just edit the GitHub page and put your name there and a bit of support would be great.
00:11:25
Speaker
All right, thanks. So yeah, back to the Euroclosure preview. Yeah, preview, pre-Euroclosure edition. It's like whenever a big event happens, there is going to be some pre-event discussions online and everything. So we thought this is going to be a nice timing for talking more about what is upcoming in Euroclosure and what are the main themes. And probably, I think there are around
00:11:49
Speaker
I don't remember, around 300 plus people will be showing up at Euroclosure. That's what I read on Euroclosure Slack, by the way. It's going to be a fantastic event, we hope, and I'm really looking forward to being there.
00:12:05
Speaker
And so we thought we'll just go through what is happening, what is going to happen at Euroclosure and give a gist of at least what we are looking forward to. So one of the main themes of Euroclosure seems to be spec this year. I think almost three talks, three announced talks about spec. So there is one, of course, the keynote by Karen Mayer about closure spec.
00:12:31
Speaker
which is genetic programming and beyond with ClosureSpec. And Karamir is, of course, the
Clojure in Technology and Performance
00:12:37
Speaker
author of Living Closure. That's a very nice entry level of the beginner closure book. So that is one thing. And the other one is by Simon Belak, I think. I need to look it up, by the way, to make sure that I'm pronouncing it correctly.
00:12:56
Speaker
It's always tricky, I think. We just go with the names and just do our best. I think it's be like, be like. It's tricky, isn't it? Simon is easier. Simon? It's Simon. Exactly. Or is it Simon? We go with Simon.
00:13:13
Speaker
Simone. God, he's going to punch me now. Sorry, Simon. Anyway, he was also... He's going to live with spec. We used to live with Deafen as well. Exactly. And by the way, he gave a very nice talk at Dutch Closure Day about big data and closure last year. So I'm looking forward for his talk about spec at EuroClosure.
00:13:40
Speaker
So that is one and the other one is bare metal closure with closure spec. This is a bit more interesting for me. I have no idea what bare metal is. Maybe probably converting closure into C. That's fairly interesting.
00:14:00
Speaker
So this is something that I'm looking forward to as well. So there are basically three closure spec talks that are announced. And there is a keynote by David Nolan, and I don't see it being announced. It's just one more week to the conference. Please tell us already.
00:14:20
Speaker
I think he's going to write it on the plane over there. It's a long way from wherever he is in New York over to Bratislava, so I think he's either going to write a whole new version of Closure Script on the plane over there or he'll just write his speech. Maybe he's going to announce one of those secret features live to the audience.
00:14:43
Speaker
Oh man, yeah. That could be a mega scoop at your enclosure. Exactly. Yeah. So basically three different talks about spec. And so that means spec is going to get a lot of attention there, I would suppose. And what else do we have? We also have some interesting talks about closure interaction with the outside or non-closery stuff.
00:15:11
Speaker
So we have one talk about Closure with, sorry, Datomic with Scala, right?
00:15:17
Speaker
Well, yeah, but I mean, I think we have to think of the atomic as closure. So, you know, although it's bundled up in the atomic. But yeah, this guy, Peter Brakwitz, I guess, is doing a talk about combining Scala with the atomic, which should be interesting because I know a few people have tried it and it's not always the easiest thing to do. They had scars.
00:15:45
Speaker
Scala. Well, combining dynamic with Scala, that seems a bit adventurous. So I'm curious about how this is going to be. And I see a lot of different speakers. Apparently, Peter is just like me. He is currently working software mostly in Scala during the daytime. And after work, he's programming in Clojure. So essentially like me, I would say. I mean, night closure and then day in Scala.
00:16:15
Speaker
Pretty cool stuff. And the other one is about closure with Spark.
00:16:23
Speaker
See, machine learning Apache Spark, which is what I'm familiar with a bit. And I'm curious about what this talk is about because he's also going to talk about deep learning for J, which is not Spark, by the way. So it's both machine learning and closure.
00:16:46
Speaker
Cool stuff and he enjoys writing Closure, Elixir, Idris, Ruby and Swift. Oh man, fun stuff. So this is like a really polyglot programmer. It's Eric Weinstein. Hulu. Oh, Hulu is the online video platform thingy, right?
00:17:04
Speaker
Is it still alive? Isn't that one of those ones which is made by the channels? Yeah, I think so. Fox or... I don't remember who is that though. I thought it was Fox. It could be, because we're the equivalent of Fox networks now, aren't we? With the closure thing. Vegetarian Fox network. Yeah, vegetarian Fox network.
00:17:30
Speaker
Fox network of functional programming like relentless output of biased opinions. Why closure is better and everything else sucks. Yeah. Yeah. I think that Rupert Murdoch will be happy to buy us out.
00:17:46
Speaker
one of these days. And then we'll give hoodies to everybody for free. We'll be super rich. Maybe we should put that as a tagline. I mean, Fox News of functional programming or something like that. Let's not do that. I mean, that would be trolling ourselves. I mean, I wouldn't want to associate with those people.
00:18:09
Speaker
You know, it's funny as a joke, but I don't want to do that for real. The other one is, which is quite interesting for me, I think generally everyone is this automating resilience testing with closure and Docker. I think Docker will be obviously very big in the
00:18:30
Speaker
in the IT world these days, everyone wants to be able to make it easier to put together their applications, put it in a container and then distribute the versions of that. So I think to getting some practicality there, seeing how that works. It's interesting to think whether Clojure and Docker actually are kind of like buddies or not really. Is there a synergy between them?
00:18:59
Speaker
Yeah, because generally the goal, I think, is with Docker is not to give a monkeys about what's actually inside of the container. So it'll be interesting to see whether he's got any tips and tricks for the closure programmers to make Docker a bit more easy. Because I've seen a few things on Twitter with people getting fed up with Docker and not liking the way it works. So it'll be interesting to hear from Daniel about how
00:19:25
Speaker
what his experience with Docker is, seeing if it's actually a smoother path than some other people in the community. I think I've been using Docker a bit, but the most painful part is the data management with Docker. That is something that's...
00:19:42
Speaker
missing in Docker because a Docker image doesn't have the data with it. And it's an external volume that you need to attach every now and then. So application delivery is fairly fun. But of course, this is about testing. So I'm curious what this talk is about. And of course, another thing that I'm really, really looking forward to is this Nyan Dirthao. Sorry, Nyan.
00:20:07
Speaker
Yeah, that's all. Yeah. So that library, which is like taking closure to GPU. And I did try it a bit on my Mac some time ago, but it's still, well, some of the OpenCL libraries, they're not really Mac friendly. I have a shitty Mac during those days. But I'm curious what this dragon, dragon, Jewish,
00:20:32
Speaker
It's going to talk about, I mean, this is like getting the high performance sort of closure. So using the GPUs, that would mean that this is like a fundamental library, in my opinion, to bring in like things like TensorFlow and those kind of things into closure. So it'll be super fun to have. Yeah, actually, we're doing one of the motivations for a little project I did at my old job now. By the way, congratulations on your new job.
00:20:59
Speaker
Oh, well, you know, it's just slipping in the middle here. Why not? Yeah, yeah, I finally I was working for 11 years with this with Toyota Motor Europe.
Personal Reflections and New Opportunities
00:21:10
Speaker
And it was it was a great job. But now I'm going to work for for an American bank, actually going to go from mortars to money to the dark side, the bank, the dark side. Yeah, the bank. Wow. I'm also working at the bank. Now you have moved to a bank. So this is basically
00:21:29
Speaker
bank. Sell bank stock everybody. This is your final warning. This is your final warning. We warned you. But it should be interesting because actually I've
00:21:47
Speaker
One of the things we're talking about is how can we do certain things. So I'm hoping that although I didn't quite manage to bring Closure in at my old job, there are some people working with Closure there. And there are some projects coming up that might be using Closure there, too, and even Deatomic. Just as I'm leaving, we've managed to get some mindshare around that area. So I'm going to keep in touch with those guys. Don't worry.
00:22:15
Speaker
it's uh we'll be in the belgian user groups and we'll get some information about that um anyway so
00:22:22
Speaker
One of the subjects about that was to talk about matrix maths actually, because one of their projects is to do drawing comparisons. I don't want to go into the details of it, but it actually is quite a GPU intensive process. And one of the things we were looking at was the matrix maths and actually this library here that Dragon is going to talk about is interesting. He mentions that.
00:22:50
Speaker
that could be interesting. So if there's some, you know, some matrix maths there that we can take out of it and actually get some benefits on that project, that would be a nice win. Yeah. And I'm also curious about maybe, maybe he'll do a quick comparison or something, because I remember he was
00:23:07
Speaker
He was doing some benchmarking, and then there was a discussion around comparison with Core Matrix and his library, Neanderthal. So it'll be nice to hear from him directly and then ask a couple of questions and understand this better. But I think right now, well, he has a black belt intake window, so he should be a bit more careful. So don't troll him. Exactly.
00:23:37
Speaker
It's a very colorful... Hey, when he's not working in Emacs, we have something in common, so that's pretty cool. Jesus. Are you going to go through the whole list and just look for Emacs users? This is really going to be annoying. No. I mean, I just found it. I was just going through the list and I thought, hey, Dragon, he works on Emacs. Obviously, he's my kind. He works in Emacs, not on Emacs. Yeah, of course.
00:24:06
Speaker
But actually there is a, we're not really, we haven't really, it's kind of jumping around a bit, but what the hell? There is an on-session by, since you bring up editors, Colin Fleming is going to do an on-session on a Tuesday evening about cursive. So that could be good for you to go to, to learn about some modern editing. Yeah, that's true. So it'd be basically you and him there then? That'll be awesome. So finally the two cursive users getting together.
00:24:35
Speaker
That'll be awesome. Okay, moving on. It'll be good to see you Colin, if you're listening, if you ever listen. Maybe we should get him on the podcast. We'll try. We'll try to rope him in.
00:24:51
Speaker
We're going to try and have a chat with some of these speakers and we're going to bring the microphones and everything along so we should catch some of this stuff. Hopefully we can do a few interviews while we're over there.
00:25:05
Speaker
And what else do we have? I think there is a lot of interesting stuff that is like a more real worldy things and not purely writing, you know, get that stuff from database and then just put it on a form sort of thing.
Clojure in Arts and Cultural Discussions
00:25:17
Speaker
So we have talks about making music by Sri Hari, Sri Raman. This is a name that I can pronounce pretty easily, by the way. Do it again.
00:25:30
Speaker
Sri Hari, Sri Raman. So yeah, that's easy. Nilenso. So he's going to talk about making music. So essentially using overtone and kinetic music. Wow. This is, this is a, this is something that, that
00:25:46
Speaker
I'm super interested in because kinetic music is a bit different than the Western music. By the way, kinetic music is from South Indian music. Yes. Yeah. And it is it is more like it doesn't have as far as I know, obviously, maybe he has more knowledge. It doesn't have the same beat based way of singing. So it uses like 22 types of tones instead of just one. So it's it's a very fun music to listen to. So we'll see how how this is going to be exciting stuff.
00:26:18
Speaker
Yeah, well, I mean, it's definitely going to be interesting to hear some different types of music as well. Yeah. And maybe it's the kind of thing that we can look forward to improving the Indian restaurant feel in Europe. I think they've got one record for all Indian restaurants in Belgium, by the way. So it'd be quite nice to have a few different ones.
00:26:47
Speaker
Is that sound passed by the way? It's not meant to. I don't know. Maybe that sounds like super racist. Again, it's Indian music though. God, all your music sounds the same. Yeah, right. But there is somehow a difference between death metal and dark metal and this metal and that metal. Okay, fair enough, I guess. That all sounds the same as well. Bach always sounds the same to me. Mozart, Bach, compared to Ovens always the same, isn't it?
00:27:12
Speaker
Yeah. But Stoney, Eminem and Jay-Z, they're different. Probably. That's what my kids tell me anyway. Yeah.
00:27:22
Speaker
I was speaking of the different kind of music. I think Chris Ford did a talk about African rhythms, by the way, at Strange Loop. So very, very interesting talk if you are performance. I mean, I don't know. We don't we don't we shouldn't call this talks anymore because people are making music live after Sam Aaron doing overtone and then he's now making music on stage. So this is like more like a performance.
00:27:49
Speaker
Their performance art, definitely. Yeah, I agree. So we'll see. And obviously, from music to saving lives, I think, there was a risk, communicating risk reactively. So this is about medical animation. This is the thing that I liked about Euroclosure last time, or at least a couple of times I was there. They're not just about technical things, but they're about that there are talks about
00:28:15
Speaker
real world applications while rest of the technical conferences are essentially oh we made it faster I mean okay fine and oh we we we can talk to multiple databases we have this uh I don't know reactive now for some reason that kind of stuff but in but in euro closure I see this trend of having this art
00:28:37
Speaker
driven applications, medical world applications, you know, music and things coming together. So this is this is, I think, very unique to closure conferences, though I haven't seen in other places yet. Well, I think what people want to do, I mean,
00:28:53
Speaker
I think there's often, there are often like use cases of applications because I think that's one of the things about closure is that a lot of people accuse it of being, and functional programming in general, I think, you know, they accuse them of being academic languages that aren't useful in the real world. You know, they're very nice to play with and to do
00:29:13
Speaker
you know, kind of academic exercises in the background to, you know, play with compilers and that kind of stuff. But actually, that's the nice thing about some of these sessions to prove that, you know, in the real world, people are making use of this stuff and putting it into production and
00:29:30
Speaker
actually getting value out of it, not just messing around with the things in hobbies or backroom projects or just proving bits of tech, like you say. That's all good, obviously. We want to do that because that's how you get the innovation. But actually, you want to be able to apply that innovation to something in a real world. I think this one is an interesting one because he's using
00:29:54
Speaker
React and ROM. So it's quite modern as well. And it's a bit of a different take from the ones we often see. So I'm looking forward to it also. Yeah, exactly. I mean, these are the ones that I'm always curious to hear about, because after some time you get bored with, OK, we can connect to database and fetch data and do some stuff with it. And that is pretty standard stuff these days. And everybody is doing that. And I'm curious about other applications, like computing becoming
00:30:24
Speaker
you know, much more modern in other places as well. I hope they're not using like, if you see, if you think about medical stuff, man, there is a fairly large amount of closed source software. And then that is basically driven by big companies and are in the worst case, they just use Excel sheet everywhere. So this is, this is a, this must be very interesting talk. So we'll see what else do we have any interesting stuff?
Workshops and Educational Impact
00:30:51
Speaker
Of course, there is a larger,
00:30:53
Speaker
interest in the community building. So Closure Bridge is one of those amazing workshops for teaching people, underrepresented people in our sector, especially women and other people who don't get enough chance to get into the tech sector and by you know, get them young. So we are trying to teach them Closure and I think Malwain and Arna
00:31:22
Speaker
are going to talk about closure bridge. So we'd love to hear how those things are going. I saw a couple of tweets by Anna Palishka and the people who are organizing these ones in the US. So I don't know how Berlin event is going. So it'd be super cool to hear how they are teaching other people.
00:31:47
Speaker
Well, I think it'll be interesting because I guess you have to have a community of a certain size first. I don't know if you've done one of these closure bridges in Holland yet. I don't think so, but we were thinking of doing that as far as I remember. Perhaps we'll reach out to them and then see maybe next time. We'll see.
00:32:08
Speaker
Yeah, because we aren't ready to do it in Belgium yet. I don't think we've got quite a big enough community to support it yet. But it'll be interesting to see because we want to be ready as the... Maybe it'll be interesting we've grown the community actually a bit of outreach. That could be another interesting thing to organize one of these things. Because obviously it's still... We're trying to find ways of getting people into programming, but also into closure. Give them a good experience first, you know?
00:32:37
Speaker
rather than giving them a sort of crappy experience with Java or something or visual friggin basic, you know, give them a nice proper experience. Go straight to the first world, you know, straight to the top. Exactly. Yeah. Let's see, what else? Oh, of course, speaking of
00:32:58
Speaker
Another real world stuff. I think there is a repel, geometric things. I think geo-repel, interactive geometry with closure.
00:33:11
Speaker
There's a couple of maths things there actually. There's the geometric interactive geometry with closure in that one, which looks really interesting. I mean, I don't know if it's going to be interesting to see how that's done using Quill and we were talking about that before the show and we were saying the show before the podcast anyway.
00:33:33
Speaker
And, you know, we were saying that there's using this quell library. And that could be closure or closure script. So it'll be interesting to see how he plays that. Yeah, I think at least from the top description, it looks like this is this is
00:33:47
Speaker
Closure, not Closure Script, but Quill, I use Quill for one of the projects, and Quill is essentially a wrapper around, a functional wrapper that too, around processing. That is a famous library for making art. Sure. Very, very famous in a large community. But now they move to processing.js as well, so they have a JavaScript version of it.
00:34:11
Speaker
So Closure has Quill, and Quill now supports both Closure and Closure Script. So you can use that to generate very nice drawings and stuff, and animation, and all sorts of stuff. So it's a fairly interesting library. I mean, if people haven't checked that out, I'd really recommend it. It's fun to play with it. So this looks like desktop stuff, but we'll see.
00:34:38
Speaker
Yeah. And the other one is this live coding of mathematics. Yeah. With Fredrik Przyลski. And I really am going to be kind of like off my head with this stuff because it's all about
00:34:54
Speaker
dependent type. Well, this is going to be a fantastic talk because it says, Closure and Emacs CIDO will serve as learning vehicles. So obviously, there's going to be eye opening stuff for you, Ray. I mean, you should be there. And finally, you will see the light of the darkness.
00:35:12
Speaker
I hope so because I'm not a mathematician so I'll look at your notes afterwards.
00:35:28
Speaker
Okay, maybe he'll touch upon, you know, the language cock and for the proof. Yeah. So maybe he'll touch upon those things probably, but this, I don't know, um, because that's, this is mostly just, uh, like, looks a bit like Haskell style thing. Yeah. And also latte, which is the proof assistant library of enclosure. So.
00:35:51
Speaker
All right, it could be super fun. We'll see. But very, very diverse set of talks. So it's a fantastic. Okay. And one of other my favorites. Well, there are a lot of talks that I don't want to miss. And it's nice that it is actually a single track this time, I think. It's always a single track so far. Yeah. Not in Barcelona. I was not in Barcelona. In Barcelona, was it single track?
00:36:17
Speaker
Yeah, it was a single truck. OK, then we won't miss any talks then. So that's cool. There is also closure. You just have to make sure we don't have too much fun on Tuesday night, because you have to be in for the exciting talk you're about to mention, I'm pretty sure. To get our head around Michael Marchek's activities. Yes, one and a half. Sorry, the search queues.
00:36:44
Speaker
Priority search queues, one and a half dimensional tree search. Michael Marzegh has been like this relentless algorithm putting, creating guy for Closure and Closure script. And his talks are like super awesome. And most of the shit flies above my head, by the way. But I'll still show up and try to understand. So he wrote AVL trees, he wrote RRB vector, so maybe something new stuff.
00:37:10
Speaker
Well, he certainly makes these big contributions. We were talking about his libraries in one of the prior episodes. And so it would be good. He'd be a nice guy to also talk to on the cast as well, I think. Exactly. Because he's putting out a lot of libraries and he's a super smart guy, super nice guy. We'll get him on the show, certainly. We'll get him, like it or not.
00:37:38
Speaker
And then I'm learning a bit of Polish, I think I can... Is he from Poland? Probably. I don't know, actually. I thought he was not a Polish guy. No, no, he is because that L with a cross, that is Polish sound, is Mihal. Oh, right, okay. Yeah, I'm gonna learn a couple of Polish words and then we are good to go. And he couldn't resist the charm of Indian-speaking Polish on a stupid accent.
00:38:04
Speaker
OK, cool. So I think a couple of other interesting things that we can talk about.
Advanced Clojure Applications
00:38:14
Speaker
Oh, taking the Closure Script into production. That's an interesting talk. So this is going to talk about, I'm going to look up the name, by the way. Closure Script, let's see.
00:38:46
Speaker
A bit of a mix of Italian and French there, I think. And we've probably totally butchered it. I think this is like a worst thing to do before the conference, basically. Just insult everybody. Exactly. And then they'll hear it and they'll be coming and then beating the shit out of us. And we'll be like very recognizable with the special edition hoodies. So we can't even escape. Oh, Jesus. OK, yeah, we'll have to turn them inside out, I think.
00:38:59
Speaker
Yeah, this is simpler by Jean-Louis Cardano.
00:39:14
Speaker
Anyway, Jean-Louis. So he's going to talk about a mobile payment company. Interesting. Building a spa, how they moved it to which libraries? Reframe. Oh, cool. Reframe and Gulp. So this is one of those practical talks, I would guess. Yeah. I mean, it would be interesting as well, because if you can
00:39:40
Speaker
He can do this fig wheel stuff. Maybe he's going to do some live coding. I don't know. I'm not going to speak for him, but it would be interesting if it does. And you'll like it because he's also an emacs adept. Yeah. I'm just checking. You're going to be sitting there waiting with a bit of breath at the front row. You know, emacs. Giggling all the time. Show me emacs. You know, there are there are three mentions of emacs on the page already. So, yeah, let's see, cursive. Nope.
00:40:10
Speaker
There is no cursive at all. E-max everywhere. So this is going to be essentially an E-max conference. Don't depress me. OK. So I think that's pretty much it. Did we miss anything?
00:40:35
Speaker
I think the only one that we wanted to speak about maybe is the last one was this natural language processing one. This would really be interesting for me because in my last job we looked at many occasions to think about how we could do input from the public, from consumers with natural language processing.
00:41:02
Speaker
I think it would be really interesting to see what this guy has done with this kind of stuff, because it's definitely not easy, especially when you want to do a lot of European languages. And you can test your Polish again, because he's going to do some translations from Polish. Exactly. Although, actually, fair enough, not to do what he's saying, according to... I actually worked with a guy from Poland, and he reckoned that the most difficult language for NLP was Hungarian.
00:41:32
Speaker
Okay. And apparently, that's the reference standard for most NLP tools is Hungarian. Okay. Because if it can pass Hungarian, then you're good for everything else. That's interesting. But I'm just, you know, it would be interesting to talk to him about that. But obviously, Polish is also what he says it's a very rich language. So that would be interesting to understand how that fits in.
00:41:55
Speaker
And yeah, it should be good because NLP is definitely, when you think about Siri and Echo and all these kind of things, one can imagine that NLP, to me, NLP seems much more like near future than all this kind of VR and AR stuff.
00:42:14
Speaker
which still seems quite like 10, 20, 30 years away. I don't see those things really breaking into the mainstream, but I think NLP is going to be absolutely huge. Yeah, I think that the whole language processing and speech generation has been fascinating. Did you see the new blog post by Google guys sometime ago, like the machine generated speech?
00:42:39
Speaker
It was crazy. I mean, they had all these different levels of the algorithm. So you can clearly see the last one. They're using the newer techniques. They now can convert text to speech or generated speech. You can actually feel that, hey, this is not a machine. I mean, it completely sounds like human. And hopefully, I think by 20th episode of Deaf and we can just get one of those programs.
00:43:09
Speaker
has turned it on, and I then just say, oh, OK, crappy Indian accent. Go ahead. Some northern English blouse. Exactly. I think we'll post the link in the description for the folks who are listening. And it's a fascinating post. And they could generate near human sounding speech for both Mandarin and English and German.
00:43:38
Speaker
It's amazing. It's a deep learning stuff. I don't understand the math behind it, but I enjoyed all the audio.
00:43:47
Speaker
Well, yeah, I mean, you don't have to understand all the math for everything, do you? Yeah, it's a big world, but I would really be interested and see how Closure fits into that because, you know, like a lot of these things, it's quite interesting to see what the powerful use cases are for Closure and ClosureScript when you're making the arguments towards, you know, the management, et cetera. It's always good to know what it can be, what can back you up and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, it would be good.
Euroclosure Anticipation and Travel Plans
00:44:17
Speaker
Well, I'm really looking forward to it. I think it's going to be good from all the sort of community perspective, really got some interesting technical talks there, a big mix of stuff. Of course, there are two amazing keynotes. One is with David Nolan, which is to be decided or to be announced, and the other one with Karen Mayer, and I think she's going to talk about self-repairing code. Awesome stuff.
00:44:42
Speaker
So if the program finds a bug and then it's going to fix itself, then we're all out of jobs. I think we should stop that. We should stand around boycotting the speech. We want code. We want code. This is going to be like one of those hitchhiker guide to the galaxy. It's like when the deep, deep thought was going to tell the answers and there is a philosopher's strike.
00:45:09
Speaker
And like a room fondle and magic dice, I think. Yeah. So those guys are like, yeah, no, you know, what would we do if they're going to give the answers? Yeah. Well, I think I think we have to, we'll, we'll definitely have to stop. Exactly. Anyway, cool stuff. Um, so we are, we are very, very excited about your closure and I'll be driving there and Ray will be flying in his special. Are you going to drive there? Yeah.
00:45:37
Speaker
All right. Yeah, I finally figured out. Well, I booked my car, so I'm going to drive all the way from Holland to Slovakia. So hopefully I'll be in one piece by the time I reach there. I know you're driving to the job, I guess. Yeah, I think it's around. Well, if I drive nonstop like Indian truck driver, this is just one one day probably, but I'll probably take some breaks. So the idea is that we'll stop over in Germany a bit and then later in Czech.
00:46:05
Speaker
And then we'll show up the day before in Bratislava. And then after a couple of days, we'll write back, where I check our Slovakian. Well, I'm just making it up by, you know. Yeah, road trip though. Exactly. It should be good. There's no plan. So it's going to be very ad hoc. And then we'll just keep open the REPL, and then keep typing, and then evaluate, and then see where we're going to end up. That's it. So it's going to be very dynamic. Excellent. Excellent. Yeah. Yeah, well, it's good. Yeah.
00:46:36
Speaker
Yeah, well I've still got to decide whether to go to this closure script, the React conference after the closure conference. Because I'm going to be in Bratislava for a few days afterwards, so in theory I could do it. But I don't know, I'll have to play that one a bit by ear as well. See what's happening with the rest of the game. So you'll be there in Bratislava, so I think you'll get heckled by a lot of
00:47:04
Speaker
Clujurians, you know, like all the paparazzi and stuff. Yeah. I have to wear sunglasses afterwards, I think. Yeah. And a fake mustache. All right. Yeah. Okay. Well, I think we're, uh, I think we're just about up on time now. Um, what should we do? Just, um, end it now while the going is good. Yeah. Yeah, of course.
00:47:30
Speaker
Yeah. All right. Well, hopefully we'll see some of the people, um, from the listeners, um, at your enclosure. And hopefully you enjoyed this, this preview, uh, even for the guys that can't make it. Um, obviously there'll be videos and this kind of stuff. We'll be doing some, we might be doing some videos as well. We're definitely going to take the stuff. We might release some of that stuff. They'll obviously be the standard talking videos of the top of the videos from the talks.
00:47:56
Speaker
But we'll do some podcast media stuff as well. So it should be pretty good from a content perspective for all the listeners to our podcast. And then I guess we'll, so I guess we'll wind it up there. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the next episode will be, I think post Euroclosure special or Euroclosure special.
00:48:21
Speaker
this is our 12th episode and then we will continue rocking and then we are trying to get a lot of well we are trying to get in touch with lots of people who are going to be in in as guests on the show so we are lining them up or at least we are requesting them to join us we'll keep you guys posted
00:48:44
Speaker
Quick credits for the show. Again, we'd like to thank Lubov Soltan, the designer for our new branding, Spectacular Designs. I think she's doing freelancing. If you guys are looking for any designs or stuff, you can hit her up on her Twitter account. We'll post the link.
00:49:08
Speaker
And the music for this episode, obviously, like every other episode is provided by Pizzeri. It's called Melon Hamburger on SoundCloud. So don't forget to listen to his music. And so you have a nice flow, right? You're listening to the podcast and then continue on the same trend and then go and listen to his music as well. Exactly. It's pretty easy. Yeah, cool stuff.
00:49:33
Speaker
So, that's it from us for this pre-Euroclosure episode. We'll see you at Euroclosure. Good night. Take care. Bye.