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111. From Ballet to Broadway Tours with Ashley Talluto
186 Plays15 days ago
In this episode of The Brainy Ballerina Podcast, I’m joined by professional dancer Ashley Talluto to talk about the realities of building a career in New York City.
Ashley dives into how she transitioned from ballet into musical theater and how auditions, casting, and unions work in the musical theater world.
She also shares what it’s like to tour with major productions like West Side Story, Flashdance, and An American in Paris and gives us invaluable insight into the life of a swing and dance captain.
This episode is full of wisdom from a veteran dancer. If you’ve ever considered what it might be like to build a dancer career outside of the ballet company ecosystem, this is a must-listen!
Key “Pointes” in this Episode:
- Why Ashley chose college and how the Boston Conservatory prepared her for professional dance life
- The realities of moving to New York City as a dancer (survival jobs, balancing auditions, and building a sustainable career)
- The differences between ballet and Broadway audition processes
- The pros and cons of joining Actors’ Equity
- Why performance quality matters just as much as technique in musical theater
- What life is actually like on national and international tours
- The intense responsibility of being a swing in a Broadway production
- What a dance captain does and why the role is so important
Connect with Ashley
WEBSITE: Ashleytalluto.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/ashleytalluto
Links & Resources:
SHOP MSeam Apparel: https://mseamapparel.com/ (use code BRAINY25 at checkout for 25% off all items)
SHOP ORZA: www.orzabrand.com (use code BRAINYBALLERINA for 10% off)
Let’s connect!
My WEBSITE: thebrainyballerina.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/thebrainyballerina
Questions/comments? Email me at caitlin@thebrainyballerina.com
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Purpose
00:00:00
Speaker
I think you still want to focus on your foundation, whether it's foundation of your ballet technique, whether it's foundation of your jazz technique, whether that's singing, right? Getting that strong foundation and base is going to lead you where you need to be. So don't try to skip the steps, but make sure you truly are training because the training is what's going to give you the longevity in your career. The training is what's gonna give you the opportunities. And again, it can look just so easy, like, oh, these people are doing all these things, but truly they're the people that put the work in.
00:00:39
Speaker
I'm Kaitlyn, a former professional ballerina turned dance educator and career mentor, and this is the Brand New Ballerina podcast. I am here for the aspiring professional ballerina who wants to learn what it really takes to build a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry.
00:00:55
Speaker
I'm peeling back the curtain of the professional dance world with open and honest conversations about the realities of becoming a professional dancer. Come along to gain the knowledge and inspiration you need to succeed in a dance career on your terms.
Ashley's Background and Early Passion
00:01:14
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Brainy Ballerina podcast. I'm your host, Caitlin Sloan, and I am joined today by Ashley Toluto. Ashley is a graduate of the Boston Ballet School and holds a BFA in dance performance from the Boston Conservatory.
00:01:29
Speaker
She has toured with several Broadway national and international tours, including West Side Story, Flashdance, the musical, and Christopher Wilden's An American in Paris.
00:01:40
Speaker
She is currently a teaching associate at Coastal Carolina University. Ashley, the first thing I like to hear from all my guests is why did you take your very first dance class?
00:01:50
Speaker
I was definitely one of those kids that could not stop moving. And I think music really inspired me. And I'm sure my parents just saw that. They definitely, you know, wanted me to try all sorts of things. But i think around four, they were like, this has to be what she's going to try. So they put me in ballet at four and I was hooked. And then what was your training like growing up?
00:02:14
Speaker
I started at kind of an everything studio. You know, we did ballet, tap, jazz, the whole nine yards. Around the age 10, my ballet teacher at the time, her mother ran what was Albany Berkshire Ballet. And they did like a touring production of The Nutcracker. so she encouraged me to audition. She was like, you need to audition.
00:02:37
Speaker
for this production of The Nutcracker. And I was like, okay, I don't know what you're talking about, but sounds good. So that was my like really first introduction to ballet. And I booked it and was Clara in the production. And that's when I like really fell in love with ballet. And at the time
Advanced Training and Education
00:02:53
Speaker
I kind of realized, oh, the studio I'm at, we're not taking ballet seriously. So I kind of asked my mom if we could explore some other studios. I ended up going to Northeast School of Ballet for a bit. They had a youth ballet company. So I learned a little bit more or had a little bit more opportunity to be performing like bigger roles, you know, as an 11, 12 year old. and then started auditioning for summer intensives.
00:03:22
Speaker
I think it was seventh or eighth grade, went to the Kirov Academy of Ballet. I did both sessions, which I think at the time was like six six weeks or something of that nature. And they did ask me to stay for the year, but I wasn't quite ready to leave home and get out. So we came back and decided to go to Boston Ballet. So I didn't start attending Boston Ballet till I was in high school. So I was a bit behind, but attended Boston Ballet through high school. It was a really strange transition time for Boston. At one point, there was no artistic director. So they were transitioning from the Russian technique to who's there now, which is Mikko Nisinin. What was really amazing was, i think one year when we didn't have an artistic director, they let all of us understudy for Nutcracker roles.
00:04:15
Speaker
So we were snow and flower understudies and dancing with the company. So that was an amazing experience as a high schooler. So that was my training growing up and then ended up continuing to pursue dance at the Boston Conservatory post Boston Ballet.
00:04:32
Speaker
Okay. So how did you make that choice to go to college for dance and how did you pick the Boston Conservatory?
Professional Career Beginnings
00:04:39
Speaker
In my head, I was like, I'm just going to join a company. And I think my parents were a little skeptical that that was maybe not the best choice. And we sat down with the director of Boston Ballet School at the time, which was Dee Dee Miles. I think she's at Sarasota Ballet now. She does a lot of YAGP. And she really encouraged to give a try to the college programs, which honestly, i think there's a lot more college programs now
00:05:06
Speaker
than there were back then. So, you know, we explored a bit and I knew I wanted to still be in a city. So Fordham was a big one that I was Thinking about, you know, audition for SUNY Purchase, I think Indiana University was one, but that again wasn't in a city. So I think the Boston Conservatory kind of fit the mold.
00:05:27
Speaker
It's also just auditioning for these things. I had a good vibe. I enjoyed, I felt like a warm environment. So that's where i ended up at the Boston Conservatory. How did you feel like your experience there prepared you for your professional career?
00:05:40
Speaker
The Boston Conservatory at the time was a lot more classical than it is now. I think now they actually have a commercial dance major. At the time, it was just dance performance. And they had a really strong, which was, i guess, just exposure to me, a really strong modern program.
00:06:00
Speaker
So each semester we experienced different moderns. so We had a Lamone, Graham, Taylor, and the schedule was just so rigorous. We were dancing from 9am to 9pm between rehearsals, between classes. i think that kind of rigorous schedule is exactly what your life is going to be like in New York City. We also had a great opportunity. There were wonderful choreographers that came in We did Anthony Tudor pieces. and I think the professional type rehearsal process is also very similar to what you're going to experience when you come into a real job, whether it's dance, musical theater. But yeah, so it was just very rigorous, I would say. and then from there, what was your transition into a professional career like? Did you go straight to New York City?
00:06:52
Speaker
I did. So graduated in May. I think most of my class at the time, which was very small, we ended up graduating with like nine dancers. But I think all of us had the impetus to move to New York and audition at the Boston Conservatory. It's a huge musical theater school. So that kind of was my introduction a bit to musical theater. So Senior year, we were taking the bus. It was crazy. We were taking the bus, getting on it at, you know, 7 a.m., 6 a.m., go to the city, go to an audition, and then be back on that bus at 3 o'clock, get back to Boston so that we could be back in class the next day. So we kind of had a little introduction at that point and kind of knew that's where all of the auditions were, whether it was for a contemporary ballet company a musical theater job. Everything kind of felt like it was in New York. So that was where we headed.
00:07:50
Speaker
Was the Boston Conservatory supportive of you taking any time off from classes to go audition or did you have to sort of manage both? Definitely manage both. And I think in general, what I've learned later on is those schools that are in new York City, I think Pace University, Marymount,
00:08:11
Speaker
You get a little bit more flexibility there because you can kind of sneak out of class, go to an audition and go back to school. You know, we weren't close enough to be able to do that. So I think senior year, your professors kind of understand you're exploring your opportunities post-college. But yeah, definitely had a couple of those days where we did a very long day.
00:08:31
Speaker
What was your first job that you booked in New York? It was a small ballet company. It's called, still exists today. It's called Ballet for Young Audiences. And they do a touring production of Nutcracker. And then they'll do a touring production of another ballet, like a story ballet. but they are specifically for young children. So, you know, it's like a shorter version, but it was a great first job. You know, we rehearsed, I think only two days a week, but once Nutcracker season started around November, we did tour for about four weeks. So yeah. And locations were just outside of New York City. We'd jump on the bus in the morning, head to our location, do a little show.
00:09:14
Speaker
And we did do it a little, and I think they still might do, a little North Carolina tour. So we we did a 16-passenger van down to North Carolina and hit a bunch of different locations down there. So that was my first professional journey.
00:09:29
Speaker
performance opportunity in the city. Did you have that job when you moved to New York or did you move there without anything lined up? I moved there without anything lined up. So that happened pretty early on. I would say the audition must have been in September or October. It was a great first little learning opportunity, first job in the city.
00:09:49
Speaker
Yeah, I'm curious. I think a lot of dancers have this fantasy of moving to New York City, but I'm curious if you can share what that day-to-day reality really looks like. And you were there for 15 years, so maybe if you could share what it looked like at the beginning and if that changed at all as you went through your career.
00:10:07
Speaker
Yes. So ah it's New York is ah an interesting place. I remember being there early on and people saying, you know, you're not a New Yorker till you've been here for five years. So it's definitely an exploration, number one. I think which makes a huge difference is your living situation. So oftentimes people will move to the city. They'll get what is called a sublet. You know, someone's out on a contract and you sublet their apartments. You definitely want to find a place that's comfortable for you. You know, there's so many different neighborhoods. There's so many different locations. I think my first apartment, little things that make a huge difference, wasn't very close to a grocery store.
00:10:51
Speaker
So I was lugging groceries back on the train with me to my apartment in far Brooklyn. i was able to my kind of college job, I worked for Steve Madden in Boston. So I transferred to Steve Madden when I got to the city. And that was kind of my like first little survival job, which was fine. Maybe not the most flexible for auditions.
00:11:17
Speaker
I think what I began to build and the more that I was there, I was able to find what we call survival jobs that worked in my field. So shortly after, actually from doing Ballet for Young Audiences, one of the other dancers worked at Ballet Academy East on the Upper East Side.
00:11:37
Speaker
which is a wonderful, wonderful training facility. But they had a great pre-ballet program. So started working in the pre-ballet program. And it just felt like a little bit more, at least in my field, I was learning to teach. I worked there for probably 10, 12 years. I ended up teaching The adult program as well as I was there for so long. But what happens in New York is you kind of have to find a life outside of your art that still supports your art.
00:12:10
Speaker
So being able to work and make money, but also be flexible enough to go to auditions. That's kind of the gist. It definitely shifts and changes. And I think for each person, It's slightly different. I had plenty of friends that worked kind of in the fitness field and would really burn themselves out by teaching four or five fitness classes in a row. So again, just kind of finding what works for you.
00:12:38
Speaker
This whole time, are you auditioning for both ballet and musical theater? Are you still trying to focus on ballet? Like, how are you doing all of this?
Transition to Musical Theater
00:12:47
Speaker
Once I kind of got to the city, actually in college a little bit, I was auditioning for kind of the smaller ballet companies, which kind of don't really exist anymore. It's really sad. Like Cedar Lake was still in existence, which was incredible.
00:13:02
Speaker
Company C out in San Francisco, i think Diavolo. i don't even know if they exist anymore. But I was kind of looking at these like smaller contemporary ballet companies. So I think at this time, I was probably still doing a little bit of both.
00:13:17
Speaker
But they were kind of falling to the wayside. And I think the more that I started going to musical theater auditions, kind of the more addicting it became. Musical theater auditions happen all the time.
00:13:29
Speaker
So if you're in the city, you have an opportunity to go to these auditions any month where ballet companies are really only auditioning in the spring for the next year. And they don't even know if if someone's leaving, if there's a role. So it kind of just kind of naturally transitioned me into this different field. There were a bunch of like small companies. I worked for a company called Eidolon Ballet, which we did little performances in the city. So there there was a bunch of like little rep companies that I would work for,
00:14:01
Speaker
while continuing to audition for a little bit more musical theater. So you said that you trained a little bit in musical theater in college. Did that include singing? Did you learn how to do all of that kind of stuff? Not really. We did have a voice class at the Boston Conservatory. was not very thorough. i was, yes, very behind on singing. And that's something you As dancers, I really encourage everyone to do because you never know. You never know if that opportunity exists. Like an American in Paris hired so many incredible company dancers. i am blown away how well some of them can sing. I was never a super strong singer, but that training I had to start inputting when I was in the city. So I was going from voice teacher to voice teacher, finding new rep, learning to do that. And that's something I really had to focus on on the side.
00:14:56
Speaker
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00:15:15
Speaker
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00:15:37
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00:16:03
Speaker
So how does a musical theater audition differ from a ballet audition? Okay, so number one, if you make it through that musical theater audition, 100%, at some point you're going to be asked to sing. Usually a ballet company audition or ballet audition, you're going to go through a class.
00:16:21
Speaker
For musical theater, what tends to happen is they're going to ask you to do some piece of choreography from the show that you're auditioning for. There's also cuts that happen very quickly. So if there's so many dancers auditioning for this production and they know there's one role, the first thing that happens is they'll do something which is usually called like a cut combo. And if it is per se like a ballet based choreography in the show, they might give you like an across the floor. So something with like a pirouette, an arabesque of that nature. And then they'll cut dancers and And you'll go on and then you'll learn a little piece of choreography. Depending upon the show, I'll just go back to American in Paris as an example again.
00:17:07
Speaker
You're going to have to do the different types of dance that are in the show. So for an American in Paris, I believe it always started with the jazz combo. If you made it through the jazz combo, they would say, okay, who are the dancers that are on point? You're going to put your point shoes on. We're going do the point combo. Okay, great. Made it through that Now you're going to put your tap shoes on. There's a big tap number at the end of the show. so You're going to put your tap shoes on and whether you're a ballet dancer or not, you most likely will have to cover a part that does the tap. So you have to do the tap. And then after that, they'll do another cut and have you sing. What's also very different is
00:17:47
Speaker
for an equity production, which is anything that's on Broadway, touring productions, some regional productions as well, their equity auditions. So they have to see all of the equity members first.
00:18:01
Speaker
You can sign up on a list and occasionally they won't have enough time to see you. So you'll have waited your whole day to see if you can get seen at an audition and, you know, it would happen. i did join the union a bit later on, but I did spend many auditions just waiting to see if I'd be seen or occasionally they'll take a headshot and resume. They'll read through it and see if they want to see you from that way. But yeah, it's definitely a lot of waiting around and, know,
00:18:30
Speaker
a lot of different styles of dancing.
Audition Strategies and Union Membership
00:18:33
Speaker
How do you join the union? At what point are you able to do that? And are there pros and cons to joining? Did people choose not to at a certain point, even if they're eligible?
00:18:43
Speaker
Yes. So they used to have a program when I was joining the union. called the EMC program, where if you would work at a regional theater, you'd get so many points. This no longer exists. So now it's called open enrollment. So if you have worked a professional production, you are able to join.
00:19:03
Speaker
But especially as a newer dancer in the city, a lot of these theaters, especially if you're interested in working like a summer stock theater, They have a lot of non-union roles.
00:19:18
Speaker
Even though it seems hard to actually audition for it, they actually have jobs for non-union. So I would say it's really important to stay non-union for some time so you can get some experience.
00:19:33
Speaker
Eventually, once you've gotten enough experience and you feel like, yes, the next show I need to book has to be an equity contract. That's kind of when I decided to join the union.
00:19:45
Speaker
Once you join the union, obviously you're protected in so many different ways. You've got health insurance, weeks that you're gaining. There are certain rules that they're covering. As a non-union performer, you are not getting that same protection. So eventually, as I matured in my performance, I wanted to join the union. and So again, straight out of college, I would say don't join it right away. Have a little experience. see what it's like. And then if you've really gotten to that point in your career, go ahead and join.
00:20:16
Speaker
For a musical theater audition, what makes a dancer stand out or book the job? Because I feel like, again, it's probably very different than what we think about for a ballet or a more concert dance contract.
00:20:30
Speaker
Yeah, it's definitely more of that performance quality. It might not be the best dancer in the room, That is going to book this, but you can't take your eyes off them when they're performing this choreography. Foundation and technique is so, so, so important. Obviously, it's going to help you to perform and it's going to help you to have that base and prevent injuries and all of that. But at the same time, I've i've seen a lot of ballet dancers kind of transition because I think the ballet world is looking for such a perfect aesthetic of a dancer.
00:21:11
Speaker
And there's a lot more flexibility in your aesthetic as a musical theater performer, they want to see people look like a human. So i think that's in a good way, a great opportunity for some dancers that maybe didn't always fit the mold, but definitely that performance quality is what's going to book you the job. And honestly, i say this all the time to my students as well. If you're a good person and you look like someone that they want to work with,
00:21:40
Speaker
you're going to book a job before the people that are really difficult. Yeah. So similar to ballet, definitely, in some ways. Is there something specific you would wear? like Would you try to dress like a character from the show when you go to audition?
00:21:57
Speaker
Yeah. It's kind of funny. I was telling my students about this a week or two ago. the audition aesthetic has changed so drastically over the past ten fifteen years. I remember when I first moved to New York, if you didn't have a Lululemon skirt, you were out. like You had to wear your Lululemon skirt for an audition. And then it was very cool. People kind of started transitioning into like the leggings and the bra top, the matching sets. So that kind of turned into the audition wear of the 2010s. And then more recently, kind of what you said, it definitely has become a bit more costumey. So if you're auditioning for Moulin Rouge,
00:22:41
Speaker
People are dressed to the nines looking like the costumes that you would see in Moulin Rouge. So definitely transitioned a bit. And yes, very different than ballet, unless you're auditioning for Phantom of the Opera. If you're auditioning for Phantom of the Opera, you better wear your leotard and your pink tights and your skirt. But if it's a musical theater show,
00:23:03
Speaker
Okay, good advice. Yeah. Having toured internationally with all of these amazing shows, can you share what it's like being part of a touring
Touring and Performance Experiences
00:23:11
Speaker
performance? So yes, I did two national tours. Flashdance and Westside were both national tours. And then An American in Paris was an international tour. Both of my national tours are what they call bus and truck tours.
00:23:25
Speaker
What that means is we always stayed at a hotel every evening. So whether we were going into a show the next day, we would get up at 5 a.m. and get on the bus and drive for hours and hours and then go straight into a new show.
00:23:39
Speaker
With the international tour, we had a little bit more sit downs. which means we were at a location for potentially a week. So you were at the same hotel for a week. You could kind of get a little bit more settled. So those were two a little bit different experiences. When you're on the road, it's very similar to kind of that transition to New York City. You kind of have to transition your entire life New York.
00:24:05
Speaker
being part of this show. Luckily, i think my experience I had really great casts that we kind of became family. So your whole life becomes part of this production. Your whole family is on this bus that you're spending your days with and your evenings with and doing a show with 24 seven. There are so many challenges, challenges about getting a good meal,
00:24:30
Speaker
You're lucky if you have a refrigerator in your hotel room. I was thinking about this the other day. We were in Alaska and we had no refrigerators. So I was putting all my food out on the balcony and, you know, we're in Alaska. So God knows what animal is going to come up to the balcony. and steal my food. We do that Wisconsin too. We use the outdoors as the fridge in the winter sometimes.
00:24:57
Speaker
Yes. You just never know what challenges you're going to get. But being part of a production that's kind of long running production, it becomes your entire life, which is incredible. It's so cool to be performing in a show every single evening,
00:25:12
Speaker
for a different crowd, a different part of the US. It's really a wonderful experience. I know a lot of people like to do it a little bit earlier on in their career, and then people kind of want to settle later on. But so grateful for the experiences I had all over the country, all over the world. an american In American and Paris, we traveled China, Taiwan, we closed in Paris, which was incredible.
00:25:37
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:26:38
Speaker
In a ballet company, you might get a weekend or two weekend of shows. You might get only a couple of opportunities to do role. and this kind of touring production, you're doing the same role many, many times. Did you find that that got old or did you like the opportunity to get to do the same part a lot?
00:26:53
Speaker
I remember having this conversation or I've had this conversation many times with people who want to specifically be in a ballet company because the rep changes constantly. I was so lucky to be in those. I did some regional shows as well, but these three shows that I actually toured with West Side Story, it was the original Jerome Robbins choreography that I don't think could ever get old.
00:27:19
Speaker
So performing that choreography every evening fantastic. completely fulfilling and there's so many nuances in it that you could find little things that would change each evening. It's also kind of exciting on tour or as you're performing in a show like this, because, you know, people could potentially be sick and a swing could be on. So it kind of changes the dynamic. It's really fun to have an understudy on stage with you. So that definitely changed up the dynamic. In American in Paris, I was a swing. So I was actually not on stage every night. So...
00:27:56
Speaker
That really kept it fresh. I was number one learning. I had seven tracks I was responsible for. Every time I was on stage, I was potentially in a different track. So there's no way that could get boring. It was incredibly challenging. Whether I was on stage or not, I was constantly doing my homework. So I had to stay fresh. I had to constantly be reviewing choreography. I had to kind of keep my eyes open to who might be sick. Like who's going to go out tomorrow? What track should I really focus on? So that was an incredible experience. And Flashdance was another show where I never sat down the entire show. So I was just constantly changing my clothes, going from a ballet dancer as a point dancer to like a hip hop dancer and
00:28:48
Speaker
So I just feel like I really lucked out with my three touring shows that I was never bored. So I didn't realize that you could be swing solely and not have another track. So how many people are kind of doing that role within each production when you're on tour?
00:29:08
Speaker
Yeah. So Westside was a little bit of a smaller production. i believe we had two offstage male swings because The male tracks were a little bit more intensive. And then we had two onstage female tracks. So what that means is they had roles. If you know what that's right, they had roles in dance at the gym and the ballet. But potentially, if I was out, for example, in cool, one of them would pop it to cool. Or if someone was out in America, one of them would pop into America. Those are called onstage swings.
00:29:45
Speaker
An American in Paris is a very large production. So I believe on Broadway, because it was so intense, I believe they actually had six offstage swings. I think six female and six male, which is a lot. We toured with three. So we had three females that were offstage and three males that were offstage.
00:30:08
Speaker
So we had tracks that were called our primary tracks. So those were the ones that we would focus on. But if three people were out, you were potentially doing a track that you might not know really well. But from all Broadway shows, all touring productions, they do have swings.
00:30:28
Speaker
So if you ever see a show and you know a swing is on, you got to give them some props because they are doing a lot of work. That's amazing. Yeah. And you go to the theater every night just in case something happens? Yes. I think on Broadway. I think if you make it to like – I don't know. Somewhere in the second act, you're allowed to go home. It does happen that you'll be backstage and you'll do a mid-show swing where someone gets injured and and the hair and the wig people are coming over. You're putting on makeup really quick and they're throwing you on stage.
00:31:06
Speaker
It's pretty crazy, yeah. That sounds really stressful. Did you find that stressful or did you find that – it sounds like you found it fun the way you're describing it but – I'm stressed out hearing about it.
00:31:16
Speaker
It's funny because I look back and I'm like, how did I do that? It was very stressful, but I think I learned so much about myself and I learned so much of like what I was capable of. You know, I probably blacked out on stage a lot, but like every time I finished, I was like, wow, I really did that.
00:31:33
Speaker
That was cool. What's also crazy about An American in Paris was more than the dancing. And I don't, we don't talk about this a lot. And I think this will be very interesting for your listeners is we had to do a ton of set moves.
00:31:50
Speaker
So every little piece of furniture that was on the stage in An American in Paris, Christopher Wieldon choreographed a specific route to move a panel. Or if it was a topiary, we had to grab the topiary. We had to move it. We had to do an arabesque and take it off stage. So the stress that I had was moving the set pieces. So when it actually came to dancing and performing, it kind of just happened because I was so worried about finding a specific tape mark on the stage in the dark
00:32:26
Speaker
to move a panel so that I didn't kill Leigh Ann Cope versus me being so worried about the performance. So, you know, there's so many different layers of the swing life that you just kind of did it. It was like a hurricane. That's amazing. Yeah. And you also worked as a dance captain.
Roles and Responsibilities in Theater
00:32:47
Speaker
Can you talk about that role, what that looks like within a musical theater production? Because again, i don't really feel like that's something we have. In a ballet company, you have your rehearsal director, but they're not part of the cast. Okay, so for most musical theater productions, which seems crazy from a ballet company perspective, your rehearsal directors, your artistic directors are kind of with you for the entire performance. They're probably watching every show.
00:33:11
Speaker
Because these are such long-running shows, you get to opening night and your artistic staff leaves. They say, okay, here's the show. Good luck. So as a dance captain, you are kind of their eyes and ears when they're not there. A lot of times I would get swung out of the show to watch the show, to give notes, to see if there were certain parts that...
00:33:41
Speaker
The choreography was maybe getting messy. In the rehearsal process, I had to be at every single rehearsal, whether I was in it or not, because I was responsible for the choreography. Joey McNeely, who was our choreographer, director and choreographer, gave me a lot of pointers and told me a lot of things that he expected to...
00:34:02
Speaker
to be sustained throughout the performance throughout our months. So i was responsible for that. Also, if there was an issue on stage, if someone ran into someone, you're not allowed to give notes during a show. So people would give me the notes to pass along later.
00:34:19
Speaker
So I had a lot of maintaining to do. If someone did get injured and we had a new cast member come in I was responsible for rehearsing them in. If we were in a space, which happened often, where, you know, a set piece maybe couldn't fit you It was such a small stage, we would maybe have to cut a couple from dance at the gym.
00:34:42
Speaker
So I would work with the stage manager and we'd say, okay, we're going to cut this couple, but we'll have them come back in here. So it was maintaining the show on a day-to-day basis. It is a challenging position, I will say, because you're working with your peers.
00:34:58
Speaker
Some people give you a lot of respect and then some people are like, you're not the choreographer. Why do I need to listen to what you're telling me to do? So it's a challenging position, but that's how it works in the dance world. With An American in Paris, we actually had an associate director choreographer travel with us. So we still had dance captains, but he kind of would pass the torch down to them and say, okay, can you go rehearse these people?
00:35:23
Speaker
So I think there was a little bit more smoothness to that process versus kind of when you're on your own. Do you feel like all the teaching experience that you had gained over your career helped you?
00:35:35
Speaker
when you got into these types of roles? Yes. I remember coming back to the city after Dance Captaining West Side Story, and my brain was so much sharper. Even as being a swing too my brain was so much sharper at picking up choreography because the way I was responsible for it. I think being a dance captain actually helped me become a better teacher, even a better dancer later on.
00:36:00
Speaker
Something that i wanted to ask you about from your bio is that you're a member of the Aqua Lilies, which is our artistic swimming performance group. I wrote in the notes when I said this to you I don't know if I even have a real question, but can you just tell us more about the Aqua Lilies? Yeah, yeah. Okay. I'm obsessed with the Aqua Lilies. If you ever get a chance to see the Aqua Lilies, they're amazing. In New York, I would say there's something, or probably in most cities too, as dancers, we just call it like gig work. Occasionally there's some sort of themed party, like a great Gatsby themed party. So I was kind of assuming i had a friend just post something about, oh, the Aqualilies are looking for dancers. And in my head I said, oh, this must be some gig work. I'll give it a whirl. I am a very ah strong swimmer. So I grew up swimming. I had a pool in the backyard. It's kind of my like two great loves. I love being in the pool and I love dancing. I kind of went not really knowing what was about to happen. But what happens is the Aqualilies have a couple sets of shows. They're about 10, 12 minutes long and very niche. So if there is a specific party on a rooftop that has a pool, they'll hire the Aqualilies to perform.
00:37:13
Speaker
Potentially weddings out in Long Island, they'll hire the Aqualilies. I kind of went in not knowing what was about to happen. So as a dancer, you do dance kind of by the side of the pool a lot. But I've learned so much. We do interact with the swimmers. We swim in the pool. I've learned some basic synchronized swimming skills. I wouldn't say I'm a synchronized swimmer by any means, but the swimmers and dancers do dance together. They're performance sets. And honestly, is just the most fun. I think as a gig in the summer where you get to be by a pool and rehearsing all also very similar
00:37:52
Speaker
Dance captaining, every time you come, the pool's a different shape. So you're going to have to change the choreography slightly to enter the pool this way or really shallow. So we can't do this part. So we kind of have to work it out and figure out the different ways to do it. Performing with them, i have been to beautiful venues in Miami, Miami,
00:38:15
Speaker
Florida. I've been to the Bahamas. We opened for a Meghan Trainor concert and got to sit in the pool and watch her sing afterwards. I've done celebrities birthday parties.
00:38:29
Speaker
If you need some side work, you know, they're a little bit few and far between. You don't get the gigs all the time. But it is such a fun performance gig as a little side job. So that's the Aqualiz.
00:38:42
Speaker
I love that. And I love that we have a mutual friend, Carrie, that we connected through. And she did synchronized swimming in high school. I didn't even know that. I will have to ask Carrie about that. I'm upset. You'll just ask her. I know. It's so funny.
00:38:54
Speaker
I always think that's just so impressive because I can't swim at all. I failed swimming class. They wouldn't move me up to the next level when I was taking lessons. so i think that's incredibly impressive. And you have so many different skills as a performer.
00:39:08
Speaker
i think it's pretty clear that this has opened up a lot of opportunities for you.
Exploring Opportunities and Sustaining a Career
00:39:12
Speaker
What are your thoughts for dancers on focusing more heavily on one style versus exploring all these different avenues? Yeah.
00:39:19
Speaker
I think you're going to succeed in what you really love. But in the same sense, I think there are so many opportunities. so you know, I've seen a lot of dancers kind of put themselves in a box and being exposed to so many different things is wonderful. And I think different from when I was growing up, Social media is already exposing us to so much more. They can kind of see what they like and they love more than maybe we had the opportunity to before.
00:39:51
Speaker
But I definitely say explore those opportunities. See if you like it. See if you like theater dance. Or if you don't, that's okay. That's great. Then keep going in your ballet route. But you will get so many different opportunities to perform. If you love to perform,
00:40:07
Speaker
you're gonna find some outlet to go in. And if you love to teach or if you love to choreograph, I think that it'll also give you more options later on Growing up in the ballet world, we might only see one option. But knowing there's so many different outlets and avenues is super important. If there's a dancer who wants to work across all these different avenues, Broadway, concert dance, commercial spaces, what do you think they should be prioritizing in their training when they're in middle school, high school, college?
00:40:39
Speaker
I think what what happens today a lot is we're like, yeah, I want to do all these things. And we kind of don't really focus on any of them because we want to do all of the things.
00:40:50
Speaker
I think you still want to focus on your foundation, whether it's foundation of your ballet technique, whether it's foundation of your jazz technique, whether that's singing, right? Getting that strong foundation and base is going to lead you where you need to be. So don't try to skip the steps, but make sure you truly are training because the training is what's going to give you the longevity in your career. The training is what's going give you the opportunities. And again, it can look just so easy, like, oh, these people are doing all these things. But truly, they're the people that put the work in. And you just mentioned, yeah, the training gives you a lot of longevity and you had such an amazing career and you're still working, teaching all these things.
00:41:35
Speaker
What do you think having a sustainable career looks like in today's dance industry? I've been thinking about this question for many years, and it's really, it's a hard thing to answer because I think it probably looks different for every person. in the same way I said, you kind of have to focus on what you love. In musical theater, you're going to do a contract and then you're not going to work. In a ballet company, you are going to work for your season and then you're going to have the summer off. So I think being able to sustain yourself during the downtime is what is so important. So whether, again, that's finding something artistic that fulfills you like teaching or whether that's having something on the side, knowing that you're going to perform come the fall, being a human and knowing what is going to fulfill you going to help you have that longevity in your career. It's going to help you sustain. And again, you know, I know a lot of dancers in ballet companies are getting their degrees later on. That's kind of the same thing, you know, knowing that you have the summer off to take ah college classes. That's a great opportunity. But I think it really looks different for every person. And just being honest with yourself and knowing that you have something to back yourself up. and you have something that's still fulfilling to you. Okay, last question for you. If you had to give a dancer pursuing their professional career one piece of advice, what would you
Advice for Aspiring Dancers
00:43:11
Speaker
tell them?
00:43:11
Speaker
I would say be open. I think in a lot of our training facilities, again, it kind of puts us in like a one-track route or even in the way that we're trained. It's very specific. So don't be afraid to go to a summer program that's going to give you different opportunities. and Be open to exploring different styles because like I said before, you might find something that you love or you might find something that you're surprisingly really good at and can go in that direction. Even if you have a guest teacher that comes into your studio, be open to their training, be open to the different styles. All these little opportunities that you get as a student, you'd be surprised. You might cross their path later in life.
00:43:59
Speaker
And if you make a good impression now they're going to remember that. And I think that's super important. Yeah. Amazing. Ashley, this was so interesting. Anyone listening wants to learn more about you or your work, where can we find you? I am on Instagram just as Ashley Toluto and yeah, Facebook, Ashley Toluto. Those are my media platforms. Okay, perfect. Thank you so much, Ashley. Thanks for having me, Caitlin. That was so fun.
00:44:28
Speaker
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00:44:40
Speaker
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00:44:54
Speaker
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