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Ep. 16 Hugh Alsop on Spinning Out Success Across Therapeutic Landscapes
59 Plays3 months ago
Join us for a fascinating discussion with Hugh Alsop, CEO of Kinoxis Therapeutics, a spin-out of The University of Sydney. We discuss communicating hard science through emotional impact, and their programs in substance use disorders and neurodegeneration.
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Transcript
Introduction to Mighty Spark Communications
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, everyone, and welcome to Spark Time. I'm Dani Stoltzfus. And I'm Will Riddle. Of Mighty Spark Communications. Our mission is to use scientific innovation to drive transformative change. We believe that compelling storytelling is the most effective tool we have in our arsenal to motivate and inspire audiences to invest themselves in audacious goals. We are scientists by training, storytellers by experience, and entrepreneurs by nature. Let's get started.
Storytelling in Science Communication
00:00:28
Speaker
Well, I really enjoyed another great conversation with someone from home. I loved hearing about Kenoxis' story around dementia as well as substance abuse and how it's intimately understood when you talk about it with an emotional lens. We always talk about this mighty spark. If you could make that personal connection to your audience and get people to really feel your story, it can help translate and cut through the complexity of any science that you're presenting.
00:00:57
Speaker
Yeah, agree. And it's clear to me that their story reaches a lot of years that are looking for that type of news. And I also liked hearing how it keeps the team there grounded in their mission. And Hugh's experience in spinning a company out of a university, not having a been a university member or scientist founder was was also interesting to me. They've made really effective use of that university system to advance their programs. and This was an example of how that relationship can go really well. He also spoke about what he encourages his team to do whilst pitching and talking about his company. And it's great advice, but I won't spoil his message. Let's get into the episode.
Introducing Hugh Alsop, CEO of Conoxys Therapeutics
00:01:40
Speaker
Today we're joined by Hugh Alsop. He is an accomplished biotech executive with over 25 years of experience in drug development for global markets and pharmaceutical commercialization. His current focus is the founding CEO of Conoxys Therapeutics, a company formed at the beginning of 2018 as a spin-out from the University of Sydney.
00:01:59
Speaker
He's also been the CEO of HatchTech, an Australian company developing a novel technology for the control of invertebrate pests. The company's lead product is a next-gen prescription headwise product and was approved by the US FDA in July of 2020.
00:02:14
Speaker
He has worked in executive positions in a number of biopharma companies, including Acrux Limited, Phosphogenics, Sigma, and Main Pharma. While at Acrux, he was director of business development when in 2010 the company licensed their testosterone product, Exeuron, to Lilly for 335 million Australian. Exeuron was approved by the FDA in November of 2010.
00:02:39
Speaker
With a Bachelor of Science in Chemistry from the University of Melbourne and an MBA from the Melbourne Business School, Hugh is passionate about the life sciences industry and is dedicated to addressing the unmet needs of complex marketplaces with innovative Australian developed products. Hugh, it's really great to have you on the podcast, so so welcome, and thanks for joining us. No problems, Will, and Danny, ah glad to be here today and ah talk about ah the journey of kenoxis therapeutics.
00:03:06
Speaker
Yeah, thanks so much, Hugh. And I'd really like to begin by having you tell us a little bit more about yourself after hearing your wonderful bio there. You've clearly had a journey through multiple different BIDI roles into your current role
Hugh Alsop's Journey and Social Neuroscience
00:03:20
Speaker
at Conoxys. And I'm really curious about what piqued your interest in social neuroscience, a topic that a lot of people aren't so familiar with, and ultimately using that as a guide for developing therapeutics.
00:03:35
Speaker
Yeah, thanks, Denny. um Yeah, look, my my journey to this role um you know has been a really rewarding and fulfilling career to date. I'm not an academic or inventor, founder with this company, and I don't have that decades-long experience in social neuroscience. But um when I came across this technology,
00:03:58
Speaker
ah well in 2017. It was really fascinating what the researchers had been doing at the University of Sydney and it was really exciting to get the opportunity to become involved and um help set up the company and Really, what but attracts me to that social neuroscience aspect is the ability to um make a difference in patients' lives. We're tackling some some really big problems in ah so in in neuroscience, um being substance use disorders and um agitation and aggression in dementia patients. These are challenging areas. They're difficult areas to focus on. and
00:04:43
Speaker
really what grabbed me when way back in 2017, when we started to spin this company out of the university, was um the ability to to translate what the researchers had been working on for over a decade at the University of Sydney into therapeutics that ultimately can, you know, find their way into clinical trials and, and approved products. So um that was the big motivation for me.
00:05:10
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I want to jump on that question or that that point that you've made you made here right away. And that is, can you can you talk to us about the challenges in getting a university spin out off the ground, especially as the founding CEO coming from outside the university?
Challenges in University Spin-Outs
00:05:25
Speaker
Yeah, look, it is it's a really fascinating a story. So, you know, I came to my role not as this academic or inventor founder, but really as an experienced set of hands to to help build a company. And so what what you find often when universities want to spin out companies, they they're quite often faced with the challenge of How do they so secure experience management to run the new venture? So in many cases, the inventors or the academics behind the research, the the people, at this these ideas, that their babies, um you know more often than not, they they they don't have the experience in management, running a company, raising venture capital, et cetera.
00:06:10
Speaker
But also, they also have an established academic position, their own reputation, their own position in that field and and quite often a large research team in their institution. And so sometimes it's very difficult for them to step away from those established involvements that they have from their academic position to then move into a risky new commercial venture. And and um what we found is that our researchers who'd been involved wanted to
00:06:43
Speaker
um balance that risk and have a a foot into both camps. So while continue their academic pathway within the university, but still be involved with the company as it was formed. And the only way to do that was really to bring ah in outside management to um help get the company off the ground and raise money from investors. And that's where I i got involved. and um My involvement came through a previous my previous company where I'd had a relationship with the cornerstone investor UniSeed. They approached me to lead the setup of a new company to license some interesting technology from the University of Sydney. So UniSeed is Australia's longest running venture fund.
00:07:31
Speaker
So the investment capital behind their fund is provided by partner research organisations and also a leading Australian superation superannuation fund, UniSuper. So these organisations collectively spend over $7 billion dollars of research annually in Australia and and make up over 60% of the total research spend in in research organisations in Australia. so Initially, uni-seed investors were at the University of melbourne universities of Melbourne, Queensland, Sydney and New South Wales and the CSIRO. and In November last year, five new partners joined the partnership. That was Monash Macquarie, the university of technology sydney Western Sydney University and the University of Newcastle.
Role of UniSeed and University Partnerships
00:08:17
Speaker
so
00:08:18
Speaker
the university at The uni-seed relationship there was really critical and they approached me in the second half of 2017 to um conduct a capital raise and help raise the the money and and launch the company and negotiate the license agreement with the University of Sydney and that led to us forming Kenoxis where we launched formally in in February of 2018 with an initial financing round of 3.9 million of which Unisead was the the cornerstone investor and then along with a number of sophisticated investor. So what we had from the very beginning with the University of Sydney was a, it was not only a license agreement for the technology but a master research services agreement.
00:09:07
Speaker
So this master services agreement was ah really critical to how the company operated. So that was the first thing, and I'll come back to that in a second. The second thing was the university um ah took a ah um a an equity position in the company through the the IP rather than saying, well, we'll make our money at the very end as a as a royalty on sales or milestones if this thing ever gets commercialized. We will take an equity position from day one and be a significant shareholder in the company in return for for vending in the the IP into the venture. And that was a ah very important initial position with the university where
00:09:54
Speaker
um they've They've had to continue to invest in the company to maintain ah their shareholding in the company. and that In fact, ah they still are our second largest shareholder, ah have continued in all of our subsequent financing rounds of the company.
00:10:12
Speaker
But just coming back to the master research agreement that we have and we still have with ah the university. So a small company like Kenoxis, when you start off, you've got to say, well, how do we access laboratories? How do we employ our scientists? How do we where are we going to do our research? And so the the logical thing at the time was to continue doing the research at the university, but under the guise of a a research agreement. And that was very clearly established where ah the university would continue doing the work, but we would be paying for it. And most importantly, we would own any of the intellectual property um that was being generated at the university.
00:10:57
Speaker
So that really was negotiated at the very beginning and is still in place and still a very central part of what we do now, so much so that we employ 16 postdoctoral researchers at the University of Sydney.
00:11:12
Speaker
and they're working on both our programs of our lead molecule, KNX100, and also our partnership with Bowring Ingleheim.
Conoxys' Strategic Focus on Dementia and Substance Disorders
00:11:22
Speaker
And thats that's important because it allows us access to a significant research infrastructure at the University, so laboratories,
00:11:30
Speaker
um You know, ah the research facilities, the equipment, the scientific equipment that's required, whether it be in the School of Chemistry or the School school of Psychology, the animal behavioral laboratories. um Really, to for a company like of our size to access that infrastructure, we'd either have to have our own laboratories, which is an incredibly costly exercise.
00:11:55
Speaker
or we'd have to go and use contract research organisations, which again would be would be more expensive. So then um that involvement with the university was was critical from day one and still is a critical aspect of our company where we stand today in 2024.
00:12:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's an interesting point and I had had actually wondered about this before is that you've been incredibly resourceful with the the investment that you have gained and now it seems that you know that partnership with the University of Sydney has been really critical in keeping the cost out and that's obviously a very smart decision and not one that many companies take. so and ah we applaud you for identifying that as a you know a cost effective and critical option way back in the beginning in 2017. So I want to pivot from that discussion now and speak about one of your lead indications. so
00:12:55
Speaker
We know that Conoxys is developing KNX100 issue mentioned as a treatment for agitation and aggression related to dementia. And so we've seen many companies go after disease modifying therapies for dementia, but not so many on the behavioral side and how to modify it but behavior in patients that suffer from dementia.
00:13:17
Speaker
We've also seen a lot of companies but come up short on being able to effectively disease modified dementia. But clearly your message resonates with both pharma partners, as you mentioned, about ah BI as well as investors. So what's your like secret source that you you you spread around to to keep the investment flowing on something so differentiated?
00:13:41
Speaker
Yeah, thanks, Denny. and And look, probably before I talk about that, it's ah it's a really interesting story is how did we actually get into the field of um dementia? And and you know the company was founded on the back of science that um had um some really strong preclinical animal models in the behavioral aspects of substance use disorders. And um and so we you sort of may say, well, how did we actually yeah move from substance use disorders into dementia?
00:14:15
Speaker
So what yeah yeah is there was a couple of aspects of that that that journey. The first thing was very clearly through the preclinical animal models, we saw um striking behavioral effects in these models of addiction, especially in withdrawal models where animals may display aggressive behavior through ah these substance use disorder models, whether they be um through addiction or through selfminist administration through withdrawal models or whether they be through self-administration models. And what we found is that Canex 100 was actually having a a behavior and modifying effect on those aggressive aggressive behaviors, even though we weren't
00:15:01
Speaker
actually exploring aggression at the time, the researchers noticed this behavioral phenotype and said, well, why don't we actually tease this out a little bit and do some work um in the aggression field in behavioral models, not in substance use disorder. And and we went straight to the Alzheimer's disease models and studied aggression in those and found a very striking ah behavioural of um modification of aggressive behavior. But most importantly, without that sedation that you see in in many of the current treatments that are used to treat agitation in in dementia patients.
00:15:45
Speaker
And so, ah the second aspect of that is you know very early on, once we started telling the the story about kenoxis and substance use disorders and and then went to various bio conferences and started talking to pharma partners,
00:16:01
Speaker
um What we learned is that everyone said, yes, addiction is such a massive problem. Clearly, the the overdose deaths from ah from from substance use disorders is rapidly rising in the US every year. It seemed to be going higher. The fentanyl problem was emerging as ah as a significant issue.
00:16:20
Speaker
And all of the farmer partners recognized that there was very little in the pipeline, very little that had excited them um you know in terms of novel treatments for ah treating addiction. But we just couldn't get any interest from a commercial perspective. They said, well, this is a fantastic. You've got great science. What you're showing from a behavioral um ah perspective is really impressive.
00:16:47
Speaker
But we just can't
Pharma Interest in Behavior Modification
00:16:49
Speaker
see the commercial pathway for a product in in in addiction. um And whilst there are a number of companies that are actually doing very well in this space, um it led us to think, well, maybe there's a different angle that we can take with our um molecule to get that pharma interest. And that's really led us to say, well, the agitation and aggression space in dementia is a significant issue. and We decided, you know, I don't like to use that word pivot, but it was really an addition to an additional indication to our lead compound to say, well, let's let's focus on an indication that clearly pharma is going to be interested in. Clearly pharma will um want to know about how this compound could potentially modify these these significant behavioral aspects in dementia. And really that led us to say, well,
00:17:44
Speaker
um Let's push forward both indications, substance use disorders in in in treating areas of opioid and use disorder, methamphetamine use disorder, alcohol use disorder, but also let's start working and have a big focus in the dementia space. And really that led us to design our current phase two study, which is underway in Australia, um focusing on the ah control of agitation in dementia patients.
00:18:12
Speaker
um And when we went and started talking to farmer partners and investors about this new story, and said, well, our molecule is has now actually got two focuses of of um of work.
00:18:29
Speaker
Then we really got in the door and we really got the discussions going. We got the recognition that it's a massive problem. um The number of dementia patients is only growing every year as aging populations global globally um move on. and And investors certainly understood that. They they got the fact that, OK, you guys have now got a um ah pipeline that has, yes, a real um benefit for substance use disorders you're working on, but a really commercially attractive area in the dementia space. So just coming back to what you said about um know the the dementia space has ah seen a lot of work recently in disease modifying therapies. Yes, there certainly has been a couple of products approved recently um in disease modifying ah therapies, and that's fantastic. We do need
00:19:22
Speaker
more advances in that space, but those products do remain expensive. they There are risks associated with those products and they certainly seem to be providing better benefit for patients that are earlier diagnosed ah yeah along that journey. So what what it clearly shows to us is that there will certainly be patients that are experiencing agitation and aggression um as part of their behavioral challenges through their journey with the disease.
00:19:57
Speaker
And as the number of patients gets bigger, the need to control those behavioral aspects will just get bigger and bigger. So the market is growing. um We don't see the disease modifying therapies as changing that landscape. In fact, it may mean that patients actually have the disease for longer and have those those challenging behavioral aspects for longer through their their their patient journey. So that that has really piqued the interest of ah many of the the parties that we're talking to at the moment. And they're really im really interested in our phase two trial. And it's our it's our very first opportunities to see, are we going to make a difference um once we start treating patients? um And and that's the that's always the big,
00:20:48
Speaker
um challenge for a company. You know, you do all the work preclinical, get some tox data, you go off to the FDA, do your IND, and then you start treating patients. Now, are you actually going to see an effect? Can you translate that ah that efficacy that you saw in animals into humans? And we're right at that point. We're right at that first human efficacy study to see um whether we have an effect. And I call it, it's sort of when the the rubber really hits hits the road. It hits the road, yeah. It is. We need to make this trial work and show an effect. And then it's game on. And it's about really building a development pipeline, a development plan through to approval. Because once we show we've got an effect on these behaviours and we've been able to translate that from what we see in animal models to humans,
00:21:36
Speaker
then it's about um really progressing the the development of this through to pivotal trials, essentially. Yeah, that's a fascinating story. and I just want to circle back on one of the things you said early on in responding to my question, which was you were being told by your audience what they wanted to see, and Phil and I spent a lot of time talking about how important it is to listen into the feedback you get when you're talking about you know the company and the science.
Importance of Audience Feedback
00:22:05
Speaker
and you know You've just given us a fantastic example of why listening to your audience is so valuable and so important because it's it led you to a quote unquote pivot, but now you're seeing you know such phenomenal interest in what you're doing and you know you you really have the ability to
00:22:24
Speaker
not only help these patients that and their families that are suffering from dementia, but as well, the substance use disorder of patients will benefit as well. So it's a really, really elegant example of listening to your audience. Yeah. oh look i The way I always approach every discussion, and I encourage my team to approach every discussion with um whether it be a potential farmer, partner, an investor, ah media, whoever it is, is that it's not a one-way street in terms of that discussion. We need to listen
00:23:02
Speaker
to the other side. and And I think we need to say, well, yes, we're going to impart all of our wisdom. And so what we're doing is fantastic and why we've got the best thing you know you've ever seen in in the dementia space. But we need people to tell us. So we'll OK, that's fantastic, but this is what we would like to see. This is what if we were to have this or we were to invest in it, if we were to take this product forward and develop it, um this is what we would like to see. And and taking that on board, um I think is a really important skill to then say, OK, well, we've told our story, but we've also learnt, you know, these three things and we need to take that back into our pipeline. And we're always doing that.
00:23:43
Speaker
and building those things back into our development plan and saying, well, um how do we then incorporate that, adjust for that? Sometimes we hear things and we say, well, that doesn't make any sense and, you know, nice idea. But more often than not, these people are really smart people you're talking to. They know sometimes a lot more about the therapeutic area.
00:24:04
Speaker
then than you do and and lived and breathed it for a lot longer. And so we do really critically assess those things and take it on board and and incorporate it in terms of our development plan moving forward. Yeah, it's a fantastic philosophy and um I think it's an excellent example of taking a pivot after the data is told you something. And it seems like the decisions made after seeing that data have have led to a lot of success. So congratulations on that. But I want to come back to where you started, and that is substance use disorders. Now, in our research we from our research, we understand that
00:24:44
Speaker
The team at Kanoxis has a pretty deep commitment to helping patients of of substance use disorders, as well as, of course, their families and and loved ones, everyone around them. But we also know it's ah it's a difficult space to find investment. So can you tell us about the Kanoxis approach to finding investment for substance use disorders and maybe how that ties in with ah dementia?
00:25:10
Speaker
Yeah, look, you're you're exactly right. the the this this The commitment that we have, the the journey that we're on to to help patients in substance use disorders is is a very important um journey for us. we we uh, intimately understand that the challenges in the, in this area that the trials in this area and and getting patients to participate in trials in this area is really challenging. Um, yeah and even when you think about a potential therapy being on the market, treating those patients is also
00:25:45
Speaker
ah very, very challenging as well. So um we we certainly do have that deep rooted in our DNA of where the company started and what what what we're trying to do. um But what interestingly, what we found when we started talking to investors and we've been very successful in securing um significant private investors, so sophisticated investors or family office investors. and you know The story around addiction really makes a lot of sense to those investors. It's not a ah complicated cancer, immunotherapy, you know whether science is really, really difficult and
00:26:26
Speaker
um you know, to understand they they get the story of addiction. They see it on the street when they, you know, in certain parts of cities, they they they they might even have a family um that has been touched by someone with addiction. You know, there's usually some story with, you know, someone in a family who's had a challenge with it of of some substance or or whatever.
00:26:50
Speaker
and it and and It may be a personal reason for for investing, but what we find is that that story around trying to provide new therapies, novel therapies for treating ah addiction is a story that really resonates with some of these private investors' family offices.
00:27:09
Speaker
I have one investor that was some in in fact remain still remains an investor from from day one who said, look wait we we have an opportunity to invest our money in a lot of things. you know we're We're a family office and we could we could go in a number of different directions. um And also we could actually take a philanthropic approach and say, well,
00:27:30
Speaker
we're going to go and invest in in impact investing or you know we could put our money in a lot of places. But what we really want to do is is make a difference. And so that was their tagline, make a difference. We want to see our money um involved in a project that has the potential to make a difference on real issues that challenge provide a challenge, a social challenge in society. and And we see addiction as one of those areas and that's that's you know it's It's interesting how common that theme of making a difference um has translated with a lot of these sophisticated and investors and family offices. They say, well, you know where we're independently wealthy and we've we've got an investment portfolio and a percentage of our investment will be in you know some risky venture like biotech. But if we're going to invest, we want to see you know ourselves making an investment where we can make a difference on society and have a better outcome for society. And addiction is one area that really resonated with those patients.
00:28:33
Speaker
ah with those investors. Similarly, with um with the the dementia space, um what we find is there's always some family member or relative or friend that says, are you know, Auntie Joan or Uncle Ben or whatever.
Emotional Investment from Investors
00:28:50
Speaker
um Yes, they've got dementia and I've gone and seen them in the nursing home or I've seen them pass away or know that' it's been a really challenging such a difficult area and know the that that the it's just a progressive, um slow disease that that people change and they're not the people they used to be and they tell us this to me and they say, well, if we can make that and and and the other part of that is that we've we've seen their family try to manage that and and as As carers try to deal with those patients, it's like if you could have something that makes that journey ah easier for the carers, for the patients, delay the transition from home care into nursing home or some other institution. if If you can make a difference in that, then we'd like to be involved in that journey because we've had personal experience. So quite often,
00:29:44
Speaker
Just in summary, what we what we see is that personal connection to one of the journeys that we're on in terms of both the indications. And that's really where we've been very successful and in getting a significant number of ah private investment from from those type on top of the VCs into our company. And therefore, we've got a whole range of really committed to investors.
00:30:08
Speaker
to the journey. And and you've you've got to imagine, you remember, we're a private company. So once you once you're on the bus, so to speak, you know get off we all get off at the very end. you know you're ah If you're a private investor in our company at this point, um you know you the company has to be successful to you to get a return. It's not like a listed company where, oh, look, I'm a bit sick of this story now. I'm going to sell out and move on to something else. Once they're on the journey, they're on the journey with the rest of us and they they they remain involved and and want to hear their stories and the updates. So it's a real privilege, I think, to have the investors involved in in the journey as well.
00:30:47
Speaker
I really love that. and i just want to You just made me think of something that was really striking to me as a younger person that I watched my grandmother suffer from dementia and it ultimately changed who she was. and I can tell you from living with her at the time, if there was something available that would have helped us keep her as her for longer. I 100% would have invested in it. so say that i that's like That's a classic example. You've had yeah personal a personal story that um I was listening to. We just did a series B Capital Raise, and um it was picked up by a ah local podcast here who covers startups and so forth. and Anyway, they they
00:31:27
Speaker
um had two two guys talking about what what the latest news in the investment space over the last week was, and they talked about it around. No knowledge of biotech, no knowledge of science whatsoever. They're more tech people, but they were talking about what had been raised in the local ecosystem. And then they said, look,
00:31:46
Speaker
What really I love about this story is the fact they're trying to make a difference in dementia. And I had my mother, you know, she's in a nursing home with dementia, and I know exactly what these guys are trying to deal with. And this was totally unprompted, totally um You know, just like exactly what you said, Danny, and they got it immediately and straight away, yeah what we're trying to do, the challenge that it places on families and the challenge it places on carers um to deal with these patients and the behavioral symptoms that they represent. and And we're trying to make something that is, and make it easier for these carers. So that just to expand a little bit on that, the current treatments,
00:32:31
Speaker
um ah You know, they they only work essentially by being a sedative and so yeah ah controlling the behavioral symptoms of aggression ah by sedating patients. And sedation in the elderly is a big problem.
00:32:47
Speaker
um It increases the risks of slips and falls and so forth, um has cognitive effects in terms of sedation as well. But also the the current treatments, many of them are atypical antipsychotics, have high cardiovascular risk ah um effects. So there's ah there's a much higher risk of no significant side effects of being on some of these treatments to control these behavioral. So they're they're entirely suboptimal. And and this field is really crying out for something new that doesn't have any of these risk factors is and is non sedating, but controls these behaviors. And that's essentially what we're trying to do. And even people that are non scientific understand that story immediately. And that's why
00:33:34
Speaker
ah you know, from an investor perspective, I think we've been very successful in getting interest from from investors. Yeah. And the other thing that I am thinking about as you're talking here is that when, you know, as people that help to build narratives and really get audiences engaged in the mission and the message that a company is trying to portray or tell, it's like finding that common language that immediately people can relate to and letting them, it's an emotive response right that you're generating by telling that story. And it's a really powerful way to get people like you say who aren't from biotech to really inherently understand the value of what you're doing. And you know you're you're fortunate in some respects that you have such a unique way to engage and motivate your audience to be
00:34:24
Speaker
inspired by what you're doing because they do intimately understand the problem. And that's a so really special thing that Will and I talk about all the time. And we love to help ah companies do that. and I mean, I turn ah ah turn it back to you, Danny. How many of your clients have really complex science um to explain and and and complex diseases that they're trying to talk about and how and and the challenge of you know, talking about those and in a way that, you know, cuts through all of the complexity to make it understandable. Yeah, I mean, every single one, I would say, I think everyone has their unique, ah difficult story to translate. And I think, you know, there's it's definitely an art to be able to do it and get people to be motivated and understand what you're talking about. And I guess, if you know, my my tip for doing that would be to always use analogies sometimes.
00:35:22
Speaker
you know, relating back to something that everyone can inherently understand, even if you're talking about something very complex and scientifically challenging, that's always one way to speak to your audience that we find really effective.
00:35:36
Speaker
And don't get me wrong, what we have is very complex science in the brain. And if you asked us to talk about how this is actually working in the brain and how the mechanism of action is actually happening now, that is a complex story. And that is a very different, um a very different explanation, usually to a different audience in in terms of how we we we talk. 100 percent. Yeah.
00:36:01
Speaker
So oh what are you excited about for for the rest of 2024, whether it be with related to Kenoxis or personally, we'd love to, we always ask yes, because it's fun to hear what other people think about, besides what everyone hears what we think about all the time, but we love to hear what everyone else is excited for.
00:36:19
Speaker
Look, I think um I'm excited every day because I just feel that we are very fortunate um yeah to be doing what we're doing and to be entrusted um with the belief from our investors to be able to tackle these problems. And I think um you know having just completed this capital raise, we're we're positioned extremely well from a cash position to do what we need to do in the next stage of our journey.
00:36:45
Speaker
um It is a difficult environment, um certainly in Australia, for private companies to be raising capital. So I do recognize every day how fortunate we are. And we have a plan and we're executing on that plan. But what excites me is seeing yeah the progression of this the phase two study that we have underway in Australia.
00:37:04
Speaker
in in agitation and we're targeting to recruit 60 patients over the next 12 months, eight clinical sites across the country. um And just seeing how that progresses and getting the patients on board and treated and through through that, I think that's that's really our ah number one focus at the moment. And it's exciting because we're using and not only the the measures that have been used in previous studies of um measuring agitation and aggression um ah but we're using some new technologies such as actigraphy which is a ah watch that the patients wear um and that measures their movement, their sleep and other metrics so that we can really
00:37:45
Speaker
closely provide a ah physiological ah output and a physiological measurement ah in addition to not only the care of reported outcomes or the physician reported outcomes, which are always subjective. So being able to get an objective measurement, a physiological measurement to um correlate with what we're seeing, I think that's a really exciting part of our trial ah moving forward.
00:38:10
Speaker
The other thing that excites me is to get our first um ah human efficacy study in in substance use disorders off the ground. And ah we hope that that will be our study in methamphetamine users. Again, we plan to do that study in Australia. um And that that is another unique study because we're focusing on cravings. So um cravings is is a really important aspect of addiction. and and we feel that if we're better able to control cravings in patients with substance use disorders, then it will essentially allow better treatment and therapy through recovery and therefore reduce the risk of of relapse um through that that treatment period. And so we're doing these initial proof of concept studies in cravings in methamphetamine users and and really using that as ah as a
00:39:04
Speaker
um a stepping stone into larger phase two studies that then focus on changes in drug use patterns and um and and so forth, but obviously having craving as ah as a key focus there. So that's really exciting. The other thing that excites me is our continued progress with our collaboration and with ah Burringer. I can't to talk too much more about what's going on there because it is a confidential collaboration, but really I can talk about what the company and our our researchers get out of that. Obviously, having that intimate exposure to a large farmer, how a large farmer operates, works, focuses on what's important to them, what they want to see, that's really invaluable. And our team are learning a significant amount while still being a small nimble, um you know,
00:39:53
Speaker
ah a company, um know being able to collaborate with such a large company is is a really, really exciting um part of what we're doing at the moment. So that's that's really important as well.
00:40:09
Speaker
Wow. Very, very cool. Well, it's a very exciting year at Conoxys. So kudos to you and the team as the rubber hits the road, as you said this year. yep And as we come to the end of this wonderful discussion, um I'd like to ask you, Hugh, what we ask every one of our guests, and that is what single piece of advice would you give to the founding team of an early stage biotech from from the experiences that you've had and shared with us?
Advice for Biotech Founders
00:40:36
Speaker
but I think the number one thing is plan for success, but be prepared to have 10 versions of that plan moving forward. ah on that plan you know Drug development is is is science. it's It's a series of scientific experiments, you know starting with a hypothesis. and so We don't know what the outcome will be and that's why we're trying to prove a hypothesis and it doesn't matter whether it's CMC, tox preclinical, efficacy, phase one, phase two, we can't guarantee what the outcome of any of that work will be. So my advice would be for early teams is be prepared for outcomes you don't expect.
00:41:15
Speaker
and and be prepared to react accordingly and pivot when necessary. and And we do this internally by constantly saying, well, this is what we're planning to do, but what happens if it goes wrong? What happens if we don't get the answer we want? What happens if we it doesn't work. What are we going to do? And so before we even start a series of work, whether it be clinical, preclinical, whatever, we've already had that discussion that says, what happens if we don't get the outcome we want? And that's a risk-based approach and we we we try to mitigate around that risk by
00:41:51
Speaker
to term yeah know we We categorize the risks and and say, well, what will be the impact on the business? What's the probability it will happen? um and And also, do we have and a mitigation strategy we could try to do now to reduce that risk? But quite often we just say, well,
00:42:09
Speaker
What happens if the outcome is not what we want? What are we going to do then? And having those discussions continually, I think, is really, really important because planning for success, you already know that it's not going to be a straight line journey. And that's the number one advice that I would give a founding team. Be prepared for your plans to change. Is that science? That's science. Yes, yes, yes.
00:42:36
Speaker
So very true. Thanks so much for joining us here. We really appreciate you sharing all of your experiences. You're welcome. Yeah, really fun. No problems. I thoroughly enjoyed hearing Hugh speak to the Conoxys secret sauce to getting investment. Although they're not creating disease-modifying treatments, they've tapped into a real hunger for behavior-modifying therapies to enable quality of life.
00:43:01
Speaker
Right. And it's clear to see how that personal connection to the science lets them cut through a lot of the complexity that Hugh described, of course, depending upon that audience. And I think that this is a really fundamental and useful tool.
00:43:17
Speaker
I like how Hugh thinks of communication as being a two-way street. And we've heard this before from other guests on this podcast as well. Active listening is a really important tool in building trust and connections with your audience and taking their feedback on board and demonstrating that you've heard them only strengthens your communications.
00:43:38
Speaker
Yes, well, Hugh's suggestion to plan for success, but be prepared to have 10 versions of that plan moving forward is of course, time honored advice toward de-risking your programs and well taken. So that's all for today. So join us next time as we continue this journey to power scientific innovation with storytelling to drive transformative change and solve our most demanding challenges.