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Ep. 22 Audrey Greenberg on Strategically Enabling Cell & Gene Therapy
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In this episode, we sit down with Audrey Greenberg, Founder and CEO of AG Capital Advisors, to explore her journey building and scaling the Center for Breakthrough Medicines into one of the largest advanced therapies CDMOs. Audrey shares how she fosters a strong culture in her ventures, her insights on the critical need for more women in capital allocation roles, and where she sees the cell and gene therapy field heading next – including what it will take to get there.
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Transcript
Introduction: Hosts and Mission
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi everyone and welcome Sparktime. I'm Dani Stoltzfus and I'm Will Riedel of MightySpark Communications. Our mission is to use scientific innovation to drive transformative change.
00:00:11
Speaker
We believe that compelling storytelling is the most effective tool we have in our arsenal to motivate and inspire audiences to invest themselves in audacious goals. We are scientists by training, storytellers by experience and entrepreneurs by nature. Let's get started.
Meet Audrey Greenberg: Risk and Leadership
00:00:28
Speaker
Welcome everyone to Sparktime. Today we had ah really fascinating discussion with Audrey Greenberg. To put it mildly, Audrey's an expert at taking calculated risks.
00:00:39
Speaker
Her career has spanned from CPA, Certified Public Accountant, to leading the Center for Breakthrough Medicines and and now leading AG Growth and Capital Advisors. So Audrey spoke really eloquently about how she takes calculated risks, why she does it, and how she ensures success when she's taking these risks. But she also shared so many other candid experiences from her journey.
Blind Spots in Scientific Leadership
00:01:01
Speaker
Danny, what are you most excited about in this episode? Yeah, I mean, Audrey's had just about every role there is to have within biotech, which is really impressive.
00:01:12
Speaker
She's also brings such extraordinary perspective to every discussion because of her diversity of roles. But for me, the piece that I really enjoyed hearing and something I think about as well with you all the time, Will, is her thoughts on the blind spots that scientific leaders have when it comes to company building. And for me, that was both relatable and valuable.
00:01:36
Speaker
Right.
Career Achievements and Joint Ventures
00:01:37
Speaker
We also got to hear what fueled the formation of and the success of the joint venture between the Center for Breakthrough Medicine and Penn's gene therapy program. The structure that they used for this agreement was key to really becoming partners and establishing trust between those two organizations. And the Center for Breakthrough Medicine, which of course has since been acquired by SK Farm Techo and Penn, have seen really great success together. So that joint venture agreement should be used as a model for partnerships with similar goals.
Women in Biotech: Leadership and Capital Allocation
00:02:07
Speaker
I also really enjoyed how Audrey shone a light on something that not a lot of people talk about, which is how do you think about building a culture in biotech where women not only are scientific and you know corporate leaders, but where they also lead capital allocation?
00:02:25
Speaker
As more than one incredible female leader has stated on this podcast, capital flow shapes the industry. So her insights here are especially welcome. One more thing that I'm excited about is Audrey laying out why cell and gene therapy is more exciting now, perhaps than ever.
00:02:42
Speaker
So I've encountered this growing sentiment, Danny, and I'm sure you have too, that cell and gene therapy is is somewhat on the outs. But Audrey has, again, clear-eyed strategy about the communications and the strategic efforts around affordability that are going to push cell and gene therapy to new heights. So okay, what's let's get into it.
00:03:02
Speaker
Today we're joined by Audrey Greenberg. Audrey is an award-winning executive and board director with a strong track record of building and scaling companies through capital attraction, strategic partnerships, and commercial excellence.
00:03:13
Speaker
She's launched multiple startups that now boast multi-billion dollar valuations and has served in leadership roles spanning founder, CEO, CFO, CSO, CMO, and CPO across private equity, real estate, pharma services, and cell and gene therapy.
00:03:26
Speaker
She's currently the founder and CEO of AG Capital Advisors, a strategic advisory firm partnering with private equity and venture investors to optimize capital allocation, operational transformation, and commercial execution.
Transition to Biotech: Motivations and Challenges
00:03:38
Speaker
Previously, Audrey co-founded and led the Center for Breakthrough Medicines, scaling this company from inception to leading cell and gene therapy CDMO, culminating in its acquisition by SK Farmteco. Audrey serves on the board of directors of NYMT, NLSP, ZSX Medical and ARM and on advisory boards for Penn Medicine Abramson Cancer Center, Facilitate, ISPE, PACT and Philly Builds Bio.
00:04:02
Speaker
She's an active advocate for innovation, diversity and leadership and the intersection of biotech and investment strategy. Audrey holds an MBA from the Wharton School and is a CPA. Well Audrey, it's fantastic to have you here. So thanks for joining us. How are you doing today?
00:04:15
Speaker
I'm doing great. Thanks for having me, Will. Awesome. Great. So, Audrey, as Will mentioned, you started your career as an accountant before moving into both real estate, private equity, and eventually into biotech.
00:04:28
Speaker
I'd love to hear a little bit more about that journey and how those early experiences shaped your approach towards both leadership and risk-taking. Yeah, I have a very diverse and unique background when it comes to biotech executives, and I credit that as one of the keys to my success.
00:04:48
Speaker
The strong foundation that I built in accounting and finance allowed for me to learn about financial rigor and risk assessment. From there, I moved into investment banking and private equity, where I learned more about capital flows and industries, different industries, and and really primarily how to structure a company for long-term growth.
Mindset of Opportunity and Risk
00:05:11
Speaker
And then, as you mentioned, went into real estate, which exposed me to the power of strategic partnerships. There's nothing more important in real estate than having a strong strategic partnerships.
00:05:23
Speaker
and And typically, you're building, obviously, very large-scale capital projects, or at least the ones that I was involved in. And i would say the combination of all that really translated well when I moved into biotech.
00:05:36
Speaker
ah biotech is based on trust and partnership, long-term growth horizon, and and all that is very important. Patient capital is key. I have to say, though, all of this is really about being comfortable with taking calculated risks.
00:05:52
Speaker
But i also, also i will just finalize myself by saying that I've learned that success does come from grounding yourself primarily above all else in the right people, being deeply informed into what you're going into and doing all the research around it.
00:06:09
Speaker
And really, i would say most importantly, is being able to recognize and seize an opportunity as it presents
Formation of CBM and Strategic Success
00:06:16
Speaker
itself. And I think that mindcha mindset, excuse me,
00:06:20
Speaker
really shaped my leadership at my most recent position, Center for Breakthrough Medicine. And it continues to guide my approach today as I work with executives across different private equity investments.
00:06:32
Speaker
Yeah, i really relate to that idea of seeing opportunity as arises. And, you know, I think a lot of us are prone to going, oh, that would be fun, but maybe one day, but as ah as opposed to actually jumping into that and, as you say, getting yourself well-versed in the space and and moving forward with it is a whole different skill set.
00:06:50
Speaker
So very cool to see how you've done that. Yeah, I want to follow up, Audrey, on your transition from finance centric roles and into biotech. You know, you talked about the mindset as as being so important. So I'm wondering when you when you jumped into cell and gene therapy, what what was your mindset? What was the specific moment or experience that inspired you to make that leap?
00:07:12
Speaker
Yeah, it's ah it's an interesting point, because I think at some time during your journey in life, you reassess what drives you, what gets you out of bed every morning, what's important to you. And that obviously changes over time ah with growth, both personally and professionally.
00:07:30
Speaker
I would say the biotech is one of the most dynamic and impactful industries that anyone can work in. There's a real potential to save and change lives. That was a huge draw for me. And in particular, in cell and gene therapy, there's that's the modality that's closest to the patient.
00:07:46
Speaker
ah You're doing at times, specifically in cell therapy, a vein-to-vein treatment where you're genetically modifying cells from a patient and delivering them back. So you're very close to the patients. And my transition into CGT really happened at a time when the industry was an inflection point.
00:08:04
Speaker
and There's tremendous, even today, scientific progress, but there's still major challenges in manufacturing and scaling. So not only was there a draw to biotech and the ability to save and change lives, but also to be part of some of the key components to the success of these therapies.
Fundraising and Storytelling in Investment
00:08:22
Speaker
And that specific moment really crystallized my decision where seeing how academic breakthroughs weren't making its way to patients due to infrastructure limitations. yeah And my background in real estate really allowed me to bring to bear how to leverage capital structure to make sure that money was being spent in the risk return profile that made sense.
00:08:43
Speaker
Yeah. So the idea of creating a platform to bridge that gap, helping therapy scale from lab to market was very, very compelling to me. And ultimately, that's what led me to co-found CBM and build an ecosystem to enable this commercial scale production of cell and gene therapy.
00:09:02
Speaker
Yeah, Will and I both come from the cell and gene therapy background on the on the early stage preclinical side, and we can speak to just how challenging that field is and how desperately there is a need for that translational ability from you know the research stage to the the commercial stage. So I can really appreciate the value that came out of you founding the CBM. Yeah.
00:09:23
Speaker
I want to talk a little bit more about your time there because we know that you went through multiple different funding rounds, one of which was a large round of $350 million after a relatively bootstrapped round of $20 million. And when we talk to clients about fundraising, we often talk about what are the strategies in the key messaging that helps in ah you gain confidence and trust with investors at different stages. So I'd love to hear about your thoughts on those two different raises, given how different the size of the raise was, as well as probably the community that you were pitching.
00:09:58
Speaker
Yeah, I think my background in investment banking and private equity really helped in this regard. Yeah. Because you can have a great idea, but ultimately it's all about execution and the team that's doing that execution. And I think investors are very focused on who's the team, what is the market opportunity,
00:10:19
Speaker
What is your value proposition that differentiates you from your competitors? And is this all coming together in a way that makes sense and allows us as an investor, speaking from the investor perspective, to generate the return threshold that we need to for they have their own investors, right?
00:10:39
Speaker
So i would say... The key is the storytelling, right? And articulating a vision that investors can buy into while demonstrating that clear path to execution that I was talking about.
Strategic Partnerships and Negotiations
00:10:53
Speaker
At CBM, very early on, we focused on the pain points in cell and gene therapy manufacturing slash CDMO services and how our platform addressed those bottlenecks and those issues that clients and biotechs were facing when they were working with CDMOs.
00:11:11
Speaker
investors needed to see that we weren't just building another CDMO, but really a strategic enabler of the entire CGT industry.
00:11:22
Speaker
hu So at each stage, as you mentioned, the various stages, we emphasized and tailored our messaging um from early stage to growth stage to late stage, and ultimately to our acquisition by SK Firmteco. And And I would lastly just close by saying the ability to communicate how your company changes and changes and pivots over time, dealing with either market shifts or COVID, which we were dealing with, or complete global supply chain and geopolitical risk. There was a lot going on when we were scaling the company. So being able to articulate how you pivot in each of those environments and as the company scales and doing it very confidently is critical in securing investor buy-in.
00:12:08
Speaker
Yeah, agree, Audrey. It sounds like the the key is storytelling, but the the tricky part is that that story keeps changing even with you know geopolitical issues. So very cool to to see how much success CBM has had. and you know, we spoke about investors, but I'm also curious about, um ah you know, joint ventures. So CBM, of course, formed that landmark joint venture with um University of Pennsylvania's gene therapy program, which is a huge gene therapy program.
00:12:37
Speaker
I'm curious, you know, during those negotiations of forming that venture joint venture, what do you think was the most critical aspect of communicating the value and the alignment with that program during the negotiations?
00:12:51
Speaker
Yeah. And I have to say that negotiating and well, sourcing, negotiating and closing a deal with an academic institution is quite challenging.
00:13:03
Speaker
I can only imagine. yeah Yeah. I mean, when I tell you it took took years and hundreds of iterations of documentation, yeah it's, it's accurate.
00:13:14
Speaker
Yeah. And by the way, you want to have very good counsel and smart people that understand intricacies of that. But I would just say that the key to success on that particular transaction was aligning on mission and incentives. And that's not unique to any other transaction that I've worked on. Right.
00:13:31
Speaker
But in particular with Penn's gene therapy program, which at the time was led by Dr. Jim Wilson, they have world-class science and technology. But really what they needed was scalable, reliable GMP manufacturing to bring those innovations to patients and to market.
00:13:48
Speaker
And CBM, who was right in their backyard, was building that infrastructure to
Scaling Challenges and Market Strategy
00:13:52
Speaker
do just that. Right. So well-positioned. Yep. Yeah, and and from a negotiation standpoint, I would say we focused on, as I mentioned, shared visioning, you know making sure that CBM was an enabler, not just a service provider. It was ultimately about a partnership. That was first.
00:14:07
Speaker
Second, as with anything else, not unique again, trust and credibility, demonstrating that we had the expertise, the financial stability with our partnership with SK, and the ability to execute at scale was very important.
00:14:22
Speaker
And then lastly, and this is unique, I would say, because not everyone's so focused on the long term, but we were ultimately in this particular scenario about long term value creation.
00:14:34
Speaker
So we structured the partnership to create mutual incentives for innovation, not just a transactional agreement. oh So we not only had a joint manufacturing agreement, we also had a sponsored research agreement.
00:14:49
Speaker
And this was what really brought us together as partners, creating long-term value, trust and credibility, and a shared vision. And I would say this approach really helped us secure buy-in at all levels within Penn with our investors, and it built a model that continues to drive impact.
00:15:06
Speaker
Wow. I don't even know how to respond to that. That's just really impressive. I can't even imagine the iterations of paperwork that you mentioned. massive head But i I want to talk a little bit more about your time at CBM now and the years on the finance and business development side in private equity and at CBM, where you both raise capital and as you just described, you forge these joint ventures.
00:15:32
Speaker
But then you moved into more of a sales and marketing focused role at CGT under SK Farm Teco. And I mean, those two styles are very different. And I'm really curious to hear how those two diverse experiences has taught you um Well, let's, how do I put this delicately? There's a lot of biotech leaders that come from a scientific background without your experience, right? So what I'm trying to get at is what nuggets of information from your experiences would you share with them so that they, um things they might be overlooking that you gained in both of your ah private equity, capital, venture, sales type roles?
00:16:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of great points in your question. And I honestly, my mind is going so many ways because yes there's so much to talk about here. yeah yeah The but first is, um it's not just what you say, it's how you say it. Scientific leaders are an interesting bunch.
00:16:35
Speaker
And um some are, look, there's an ego factor in any industry, but you just have to keep in mind who your audience is with anything. yeah um And many biotech leaders, especially from scientific backgrounds, really underestimate the importance of commercial strategy, how to position a company for long-term success beyond the science.
00:16:57
Speaker
And there's three, i would say, major blind spots that I've seen. One, capital discipline. Even the best science fails if the business doesn't have a viable funding strategy. And scientists often focus on innovation without fully understanding capital allocation.
00:17:14
Speaker
So that's one blind spot. The second, I would say, and you see this play out in the capital markets all the time. And in particular, you heard there was big announcement on Friday where I'd say this was the case.
00:17:25
Speaker
But go to market strategy. Yeah. Many biotech leaders assume great science or commercial approval will itself be successful. yeah And in reality, commercial execution, execution, not just approval, partnerships and regulatory positioning are just as critical. yeah And there's a phrase in the industry called catastrophic success.
00:17:49
Speaker
So you you want to plan for that and you have to be prepared to deal with post-approval, market adoption, physician adoption, reimbursement and everything that goes with it. And then the third blind spot is scaling.
00:18:02
Speaker
Moving from lab scale to commercial scale manufacturing, as you know, on this call, given your time and our days, is one of the hardest transitions for a biotech. and without And by the way, equally important is your analytics that go with it.
From Finance to Sales: Listening to Clients
00:18:16
Speaker
Oh my gosh. Yeah. yeah get we started Yeah, I mean, start with the end in mind without foresight, companies can hit major roadblocks. I mean, the issue that we're seeing now in that regard is that everyone just wants to race to their next milestone so they can get their next tranche of funding. Their capital runways are getting shorter. They're trying to lengthen them. And so there's a it's very complex what we're dealing with in the market today.
00:18:41
Speaker
um But that's what I would say ah the three major blind spots are for scientific leaders. And then in terms of my transition ah from finance to sales and marketing, that's a good, really good point too.
00:18:57
Speaker
um And when i look back at my career, well, first of all, I'll say that, look, I'm a fixer. And so I go what needs to, I go we need, and we were trying to ramp revenue really quickly. And so I, I was,
00:19:11
Speaker
delegated myself with full support from the board and our investors to really supercharge our sales and marketing efforts. And so I did just that. But what gave me the background to do that when all I was doing was financial models, or at least from the outsider's perspective, is that if you know private equity and investment banking and even accounting for that matter, it's all about client service.
00:19:34
Speaker
Yes. yeah and if yeah And by the way, the best salespeople are not the ones that sell. They're the ones that listen. Yeah. And and don't take at face value what a client tells you their problems are. yeah It's about a conversation and really understanding the pain points so that you can address them.
00:19:55
Speaker
And so that for me was what allowed me to be successful in CDMO sales and marketing because I was listening to the clients and listening to the market and looking on the horizon of what was going to disrupt us in the future.
Investment Strategy and Scaling with AG Growth Advisors
00:20:09
Speaker
Yeah, I 100% agree with that sentiment that it's all about client service. And I mean, i see like, I mean, we're we're a service provider, right? I see our role and what we do is like helping people when they have a problem.
00:20:25
Speaker
And yeah you the problem may change it may be different to what they think it is, but our job's to solve it. So I really resonate with that and um really cool that you you shared that with us. ah And I want to hear now, like given all of that advice that you just kind of those three points that you just covered, how do you share that knowledge with your clients through ag Growth Advisors?
00:20:48
Speaker
Yeah, it's ah it's a good point. I'm working, I would say, right now on three major areas. One and is um investments that were made And let's say they were made at the top of the market or just before the market peak.
00:21:07
Speaker
And they're really focused on commercial excellence. So for current portfolio investments, am partnered with the PE and the executive team at those particular portfolio companies, figuring out really how to scale the organization in an efficient and effective manner. That's the first set of opportunities.
00:21:26
Speaker
The second set of opportunities is investment strategy, investments that haven't been made yet, and partnering with the investors on helping to determine where are the pockets of opportunity, what is the valuation, is the technology worth investing in and then how would we grow the business and execute on our plan post-acquisition or investment.
00:21:48
Speaker
so that's a second category of opportunities. The third is working with non-PE companies that are companies within the pharma services and biotech landscape. Even therapeutic companies are some of my clients now that are really looking to eat to bring in either capital investment and or revenue.
00:22:10
Speaker
And I work with them on their pitch, on their targets, and on closing those partnerships. So those are the three main buckets. And i I think you can surmise based on that sort of how my skills come to bear in each of those.
Fail-Forward Culture and Risk-Taking for Women
00:22:28
Speaker
But it's it's, look, for me, it's a passion, whether it's helping a company refine their investment thesis or prepare for fundraising or strategic partnerships. My focus really is on bridging the gap between science and business.
00:22:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. it sounds It sounds like you're bringing... all of your skills into ag Growth Advisors and I'm sure clients are very lucky to work with you given how much you've accomplished. So amazing Audrey.
00:22:54
Speaker
I want to ask about in some of the interviews that that I've watched of you Audrey in in research for this, I heard you describe kind of candidly this fail forward approach in your own work and so you know that is you learn from your own failures sometimes more than your successes. So How do you communicate that fail forward culture within your teams and how do you keep people motivated when challenges arise?
00:23:21
Speaker
Yeah, it starts with visibility and access. Women in particular need to see more role models at the top and have access to mentorship, sponsorship, and capital for that matter, which has been hard lately.
00:23:37
Speaker
But in terms of failing forward, I think there's unfortunately ah for women in general, and I'll give some examples of this, we tend to be more risk averse.
00:23:51
Speaker
We tend to question things which for the good or the bad. And so how that translates, like, for example, when I was at Wharton Business School, um I graduated 25 years ago. And so quite a while ago, it was probably only 20% women when when I went to Wharton.
00:24:09
Speaker
ah Now it's an over 50, which I'm thrilled about, but I digress. um and so So when I was there, um the second year, an MBA program is two years. And at the beginning of your second year, you start interviewing for your permanent position if you didn't take your summer internship offer.
00:24:25
Speaker
And I found that ah nearly 100% of the women, probably 85% 100% of the women, were accepting offers within the first two to three months, certainly by December of of the graduating year.
00:24:44
Speaker
or the graduating, uh, yeah, the graduating year. So by December, graduation is in May. They were accepted. Men would wait and wait and wait for that perfect thing. Oftentimes even graduating without an, and an offer or a job. And I think that resulted in them getting something perhaps that was, um more within their sweet spot or something they were really chasing after. Whereas women sort of had a flight to, um safety And i think that if we can at least support women in taking more risks, being bold, not being afraid, and and you do that not through conversation and and mentorship, like telling someone to do something,
00:25:38
Speaker
It's about modeling that behavior, having people witness that behavior, and supporting women in the workplace in that regard. It's incredibly important.
Increasing Women's Roles in Investment
00:25:49
Speaker
And one of the biggest barriers, by the way, isn't just getting women into biotech and STEM.
00:25:55
Speaker
It's getting them into investment and capital allocation roles. i When I walk around cell and gene therapy conferences, there's a ton of women in mentorship and, excuse me, in leadership roles.
00:26:09
Speaker
When I went to J.P. Morgan, i mean, people were like, yeah, there's a lot of women. There are not. There just aren't. And I go to a lot of these investment banking conferences. There are no women.
00:26:21
Speaker
And the reality is that capital flows shape industries and we need more women making those decisions. That means supporting more female led funds, getting women onto investment committees and changing how we evaluate, as I started this this particular question, with risk and innovation.
00:26:40
Speaker
Well, I could probably spend another three hours talking about this topic with you, Audrey, because i I have not come from a financial background, but as a scientist who was looking to excel academically, I can also share that there's very few women that do that and we all get pressured to stop for a variety of different reasons. so we'll save that conversation for another day. But I do want to talk a little bit more about your advocacy for women in science and especially in leadership and investment, as you just mentioned, because as you said, very few women are getting leading investment decisions. And, you know, from your perspective, what what what can we do to change that? Like what fundamentally can we do? I mean, aside from, you know, support, but what does support mean? What does that look like to you? What do you think is the biggest challenge?
00:27:34
Speaker
Well, i first of all, we need to have men supporting women and women supporting women. if the now top leader if In healthcare in particular, and this is overall healthcare, not just biotech, it's greater than 50% women at the entry level. And it has the biggest cliff as you go further and further up the chain ah with board roles, obviously, nearly non-existent. um but but And then further further up the chain into the investment level,
00:28:02
Speaker
um in the PE space, there's there's just very, very few women. And so I would say if we could start at the top and, you know, it's ah's sort of a dual track strategy in that you want the grassroots grassroots efforts of building STEM awareness and young populations of having policies and procedures for women entering the workforce as they move their way up the ladder to support them to continue staying involved, as you just mentioned, Dani.
00:28:35
Speaker
But then also um starting at the top down where you're putting more women in the investment world um that are making decisions on investment committees um and supporting women i from the board position and the executive role. so So you have to go top down and bottom up.
00:28:56
Speaker
um And then I think also I would add that there's a lot of great programs out there through the Alliance for Regenerative Medicine then or Healthcare Business Women's Association or Women in Bio or Women in Advanced Therapies has an excellent mentoring program.
00:29:13
Speaker
um And then there's local programs within your own communities. I know I'm in Philadelphia. The Philadelphia Chamber of Commerce has a CEO connection program where there's a lot of partnering and mentoring going on. So long story short, I would i think we um need to take individual responsibility and start mentoring individuals to the extent we have the capacity to do so.
Future of Cell and Gene Therapy: AI and Innovations
00:29:37
Speaker
We need to make advocate for change within our organizations um and definitely point out where progress can be made and eliminate the barriers that are in the way of doing so.
00:29:50
Speaker
Yeah, what a fantastic perspective, Audrey. So thanks thanks for sharing that. I completely agree. It's top down and bottom up and especially appreciate you sharing those resources with our listeners. So we'll be sure to sure to share those as well.
00:30:04
Speaker
I want to move away from this topic because I want to get to selling gene therapy a little bit more. And i I know we touched on this earlier in the call, but cell and gene therapy is really in an interesting place. We've seen recent drug approvals. And of course we've alluded to those in different answers, but with you know, the high drug prices and the manufacturing complexities, it it seems like the field is slowing rather than gaining steam on on some fronts. So how do you see the industry evolving over the next five to 10 years, especially as it relates to, you know, convergences between tech and biotech? And if you'd like to go there, we're talking about AI applications.
00:30:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's an incredibly exciting time for cell and gene therapy. And I think biotech and and pharma, for that matter, overall. Yeah. the In particular for cell and gene therapy, I think the future is going to be shaped by three main themes, and some of which you've just mentioned. But one, automation and AI.
00:31:02
Speaker
Two, tech bioconvergence, which you mentioned. And then new business models, which are going to be very important. So from an automation and AI perspective, the AI-driven biomanufacturing will be reduce costs, improve scalability, and reduce timelines significantly. And on the tech bioconvergence, we're seeing more crossover between biotech and Silicon Valley, which will drive innovation, but also regulatory and business model shifts.
00:31:30
Speaker
And then in the new business models, you've got subscription-based pricing, value-based care, decentralized manufacturing, increased partnerships in that realm will help address some of the affordability challenges.
00:31:44
Speaker
And then near and dear to our heart on this call, from a communication standpoint, the industry really needs to ship from this hype-driven messaging to execution-focused storytelling, showing how CGT is moving from scientific novelva novelty, really, to a sustainable business model.
00:32:04
Speaker
And unfortunately, that comes with some headwinds and some headline ah risk but that's been that's been happening lately. But ultimately, i think some of the transactions that are occurring are...
00:32:19
Speaker
poised to make these investors a tremendous amount of money. um they are There are good deals to be had right now. And um my my bet would be, I always run towards what everyone else is running away from. And I think if um you have some dry powder, putting doubling, tripling down in CGT is the right move right now.
00:32:44
Speaker
Yeah, really, really interesting. And I love the concept of running towards what everyone else is running away from because there's almost always opportunity to be had when you do that. So i often think the same way. So very cool.
00:32:58
Speaker
Switching to like the rest of 2025, I can't believe we're almost in March. It's the year is flying by. But what are you excited about for this year, whether relates to AG Capital Advisors or anything else that you'd like to share?
00:33:11
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think we talked about this a little bit, but just there there is a huge, enormous opportunity in rethinking how we fund and scale biotech innovations, whether, um unfortunately, this has been hit a little bit non-dilutive financing.
00:33:27
Speaker
We'll see what happens in that regard. But non-dilutive financing and and interesting private schemes there, royalty-based funding, and strategic joint ventures. And I'm excited really about these new creative financing structures and also the intersection of biotech and AI.
00:33:46
Speaker
There is an all sp aspects of the life cycle of a drug, ai comes to play. So I think of this three-dimensional model, right? You have the life cycle of a drug. You also have manufacturing and how you scale up that over time. You have early phase discovery on the on the beginning end. You've got late stage commercial application on the other end.
00:34:14
Speaker
And you can imagine a world where at the very earliest stage of a company's lifecycle or drug life lifetime, you can... predict nearly all of the success factors in a way that optimizes timelines, valuation, and rollout.
00:34:35
Speaker
And so there's there's just so much opportunity with AI. um and And the other dimensions of that are in the little things, you know, in terms of operating capital and not having, i mean, you could probably have or reduce your workforce by 75% in some regards by really leveraging AI, which I think scares some people.
00:34:59
Speaker
um But for me, it's it ultimately is about reducing this $2 billion 15-year cost of getting a drug approved, which is insane.
Advice for Early-Stage Biotech Companies
00:35:10
Speaker
And we we really need to find a way to um optimize capital in a way that allows more drugs to get to patients in a safe and effective manner.
00:35:22
Speaker
Absolutely. Well, with that, we're, you know, coming to the end of the discussion. So we always like to ask our guests, what single piece of advice, Audrey, would you give to the founding team of an early stage biotech?
00:35:36
Speaker
Too many early stage companies focus solely on the technology without a clear pathway to market. Yep. You don't need all the answers on day one, but you do need a plan for capital strategy, commercialization, and differentiation because great science alone isn't enough to build a sustainable
Podcast Conclusion: Reflections and Future Insights
00:35:55
Speaker
business.
00:35:55
Speaker
Yeah. So true. so james Well, Audrey, it's been such a pleasure to have you on the podcast. So thank you so much again for joining us.
00:36:07
Speaker
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Yes, absolutely. There is so much to unpack from that conversation. i'm just like floored at what she was able to share with us.
00:36:18
Speaker
Audrey's an amazing woman. And maybe we can start by thinking about how she thought about the goal of the CBM. And of course, in principle, it is a CDMO, but because they were able to actively find the right investors and deploy capital effectively, they really became a strategic enabler of cell and gene therapy.
00:36:37
Speaker
We've seen this concept executed in other fields, but clearly the success of CBM, which is now SK Farm Techo, has had is a testament to the execution on the model that Audrey laid out.
00:36:49
Speaker
That was very fascinating. I think she was absolutely on the money in describing what's next for cell and gene therapy messaging. We're accustomed to the scientific breakthrough and and the hype around the field, so now the field should be switching to execution-based messaging. Why and how are companies building sustainable business models around the technology?
00:37:10
Speaker
I heard a really interesting analogy the other day, and I'm paraphrasing, but it was along the lines of the messaging in cell and gene therapy makes it seem like... Everyone would choose LASIK over wearing glasses.
00:37:21
Speaker
Of course, we know this isn't true. I'm talking to you through my glasses right now. That doesn't mean the more advanced technology doesn't have a great place um with many more deals in the in the near future, I'm sure. Well, that might be one of the worst dad jokes you've brought out on Sparktime. So I just had to call that out before I move on to talk about something much more serious, which is...
00:37:41
Speaker
I really resonated with how Audrey talks a set about herself as being someone who runs towards the fire. Cause honestly, I'd be right there with her with the fire hydrant cause she's a fixer and she's someone who gravitates towards large problems.
00:37:56
Speaker
So let's be real. There's a serious lack of women allocating capital in the biotech industry. And the way that she's addressing this gap is by modeling the ideal behavior. And that is so valuable to me in the way I think about it on so many levels. And I really hope that we can see a reversal of this trend of capital allocation in biotech being a majority male role.
00:38:19
Speaker
Yep, completely agree. Something Audrey pointed out that we're often pointing out to our clients is that the technology that they're putting forward is only one piece of that puzzle. Of course, the market, the differentiation, the capital strategy, these are all fantastically important and things we recommend communicating proactively.
00:38:36
Speaker
So I loved hearing this perspective, ah you know, shared with more teams by Audrey. Yes, folks, it's all about the differentiation. And you're going to hear us say that over and over again. But yeah, let's see what Audrey's working on next. It sounds very exciting and no doubt we'll hear some news from her soon.
00:38:54
Speaker
Well, with that, join us next time as we continue this journey to power scientific innovation with storytelling to drive transformative change and solve our most demanding challenges.