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Preview of Alice Jordan's masterclass at the 'We Run on EOS' European Conference (27 Sep 24)
51 Plays9 months ago
Can the Leader of an entrepreneurial company ever 'outgrow' being accountable for People & Culture? And if you do need a 'People Person', what’s the difference between an HR Manager, a Leader of People and Culture and a Business Leader (and which of these does a growing company need, when)? Are your people ready to fulfil your growth aspirations?
Alice Jordan is well-placed to answer these and all your People and Growth Agenda questions, having spent the first 20 years of her career in senior people roles in big companies and having since led more than 300 sessions as an EOS Implementer, helping entrepreneurial leadership teams build really strong, heart felt cultures to drive growth and productivity.
Alice will be hosting a masterclass at the EOS European Conference on 27 September in London titled “Preparing Your People Agenda for Growth” (13:10-13:55, in the Main Space).
Get your ticket here: https://lnkd.in/erpXCMcK (ask your EOS Implementer for their discount code for 40% (c. £200) off or please feel free to use code "EOSI-RobL" if you don't have one)
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Transcript
Introduction to First Time Founders Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello, welcome to the First Time Founders Podcast, the show where we talk about how to start a business from nothing and grow it into something meaningful.
Rob Liddyard's Journey from Yapster to EOS
00:00:08
Speaker
I'm Rob Liddyard, I was the founding CEO of a software business called Yapster, which was acquired in 2022, and I'm now a professional implementer of the Entrepreneur Operating System, or EOS, which means I work with entrepreneurs and entrepreneur ah entrepreneurial leadership teams to help them get what they want from their business. I'm doing a mini series at the moment ahead of the European EOS community conference on at 133 Houndstitch, 27th of September. We've got some fabulous talks going on with my um certified and expert EOS implementer colleagues, where we deep dive into a whole range of topics um around the six key components of EOS and the underlying toolkit.
Introducing Alice Jordan, EOS Implementer
00:00:48
Speaker
Today, I'm speaking with Alice Jordan. Alice is brilliant. She's a long-standing implementer. She's really fun, um really charismatic. We all love being around Alice like within the EOS implementer community, and I know our clients love her too. Alice is different to quite ah quite a lot of us in that while she's highly entrepreneurial, she doesn't come directly from an entrepreneurial background. She actually ran people and culture for a bunch of really pretty impressive companies, including some big ones. um and ah She's a fantastic coach, but her real superpower is helping leadership teams hit their growth objectives, make their visions real through world-class people leadership. And so she's very generously agreed to to lead a masterclass session. Let me look at what time it is. 1.10 till 1.55 in the main space on the 27th.
Masterclass: Preparing People for Growth
00:01:39
Speaker
And so today she's going to be talking to us about how she's formulating her thoughts, what it is that she wants to to get out of the talk and get across
00:01:46
Speaker
in that talk and if you're able to attend on the day. So this is all about preparing your people agenda for growth. And as you'll see, if you listen on now or hear as you're listening on now, this isn't much about preparing yourself for growth as it as it is about preparing your people. So enjoy. Without further ado, I give you Alice Jordan.
00:02:11
Speaker
Alice, how are you doing? Thanks for doing this with me. That's a pleasure. Really nice to be here. Thank you. You're looking great today. Thank you. I'm so excited about the 27th of September and all the wonderful speakers that we've got on. And you've done me the enormous ah honor of allowing me to to tease our prospective audience with chats with our various ah certified and expert speakers. And I understand that you've got the the people gig, preparing the people agenda for growth.
Practical Use of EOS Tools to Inspire Leaders
00:02:39
Speaker
I have indeed, yes. So I'm just getting my head around what what I'm actually going to cover. So if you see me look to the left, I've got my little notes to the left in terms of what I'm thinking of coming as a taster. Well, this I feel like this is the best time to do a teaser because actually sort of hearing you formulate your thoughts, I actually think it's really interesting for people because I know that you've been a massive advocate. I've been to the last two European conferences and and you've been
00:03:04
Speaker
a lot of the feedback has been that people love it when the the implementers go deeper and deeper and deeper, right? Like the substance that folks just can't get from books or their local kind of self-implementer community. So yeah, hearing the cogs turn, I think is what our what our audience are looking for. So where how do you want people to feel when they leave your talk? I reckon it's a good start. ah So I'm a practical kind of person, so I want them to be able, it's not nor a feel, it's maybe not feel, but yeah, feel that they've walked away with something that they can practically implement. so um i'm not I'm not great at talking about lots of theories and thoughts and ideas so I want them to feel inspired that they can go away and use some practical tools but looking at the EOS tools in a very different way and and what's interesting Rob is i I was chatting to one of my teams yesterday and I sort of said you know you've got I'm hearing you're working the whole leadership team they went well sort of and I sort of said Well, we looked at the objectives you sent out, which is about, it's aimed at people running on EOS, it's aimed at people who want to run on EOS, it's about, do you want to become an EOS implementer? He said, do those three don't apply to us? And I suddenly thought, and then I saw, you know, I know that you've recorded Dean in advance, I thought, that's exactly the material I need to send to them because
00:04:12
Speaker
the message to get through. It's about going so much deeper into the tools. And I think for the EOS implementers to share their insights about what perhaps they see in some of the teams, because we get to see EOS rolling out in so many different ways, different types of experience every journey is unique. So to be able to go deeper with the tools and say this might be some of the things that you haven't yet seen or felt and might this be coming towards you, I think will be really helpful. It's so fabulous listening to you talk because you have a people background, don't you? And um people people are famous for caring very much about how but how people feel rather than what they do as a result of a conversation. Can we just unpack that a little bit? like Because I think that's interesting, isn't it? do you What's almost like the anti-talk then? like like what do you think so that What do you think people would be expecting generally from a people segment when they come to these things? And why does that not work for you?
00:05:11
Speaker
ah What do you think they're genuinely, and why does it not work for me? yeah why why are pet why Why is it that so many of these sort of people conferences feel good in the moment, but quite often are hard to action afterwards? Because it seemed to me that that was kind of underlying what you were saying from your talk. Yeah, it might be my way of looking at the world, but I'm a very like a practical implementation. So I mean, my drive is I love helping people. But I want them to get results if they're just helping them and you're having a nice, you know, feel good fluffy moment. ah That's not what I feel is a good outcome. And I know other people like fluffy moments, but it's about practical actions. So um in terms of for me, if we're talking lots of fluff and lots of lovely things, and it's just, you know, it's a concept, but it has no practical use, then for me, that's, I wouldn't walk away thinking that was a good thing. I'm thinking that's inspiring, but so what?
00:06:08
Speaker
So when we're thinking about preparing up- Trying to get some inspiration to take some action on the back of it. It totally, totally makes sense. Sorry, I spoke over there. It was just a bit of lag on my Wi-Fi. So thinking about preparing a people agenda for growth, like how how should we be thinking about coming into this conference, hoping that we're going to leave actually prepared for growth, as opposed to just giving an inspiring rallying cry to our people and then not being prepared for growth? So I think, you know, can you, can the team, all the teams who come in, the individuals who come in, come in, you know, almost not like, what is my personal objective? What do I actually want to get out of this particular day? So that we come in trying to look for it, because I think the more we're aware of what we're trying to look for, we're more likely to be receptive to the messages. So on the people part, it's about, you know, be curious what what's not working. So, you know, just start with the real basics. You can't achieve your vision without having great people. So if you are the leader of the leadership team,
00:07:03
Speaker
I've been thinking about your own leadership team. How's that actually going? If you're a leader coming in with your own team, the same thing, being curious about what do we feel is working well and why and what's not working and why? Because if we can, we can often see the symptoms and and we have a gut, this just isn't working. I'm not sure I've got the right people around me. They're slowing me down. You know, maybe go back if you're running on EOS already. be thinking about, how do you know that your people are actually performing? What are the tools that will be ah indicating whether you're performing? So for example, what are your team's rock completion ratios? Have you recently looked at your people analyzer? Are they the right people? Are they in the right seats? Or perhaps you think they're the right people in the right seats. But how do we know if they actually are the right people in the right seats? Think about, are they completing their to-dos? Think about, are they fulfilling their roles? So just take a clarity break beforehand and be starting to think about,
00:07:54
Speaker
What in the about the people agenda, what do you want to get out of this having done some analysis yourself around your own people? Folks that are coming in that sense that they do have some people issues, some big ones that they've maybe been been trying to solve superficially and they're coming into the conference still feeling like I haven't got to the root of this. Is the answer almost always to replace the person or are we thinking that actually there might be some sort of middle ground solutions that folks are going to magically discover as a result of being together with us on the 27th?
Evolving or Replacing Team Members: Environment & Support
00:08:25
Speaker
Yeah. ah Is it always to replace? ah No, because I think that's then the default filter. I remember in my early days of being an EOS implementer, I'm sure people would think that once we'd actually done the first couple of sessions and we'd completed the people analysing, my message was to sack your people immediately. And I still think I'm pretty sure I'm not delivering that one very well. and so No, um ah you know, I it's interesting because because of my my background, and I'm sure EOS implementers see this, We can predict fairly early for for a leadership team who's going to make it. I mean, one of them my favorite phrases I nick from someone else was leadership teams going on ah a journey of growth is a bit like Turkey's voting for Christmas. They're not all going to be there at Christmas.
00:09:03
Speaker
And so I can see, depending on the ambition of growth of the business, whether a leader is going to make it or not, because there are certain phases of growth that a leader goes through. And so um I'm sort of looking, you know, we can have leaders who are turning up in the very early days that really they're doing, they're doers. And then I can see they have to transition to managing a team. Now, being a doer and being a leader and manager, taking that that ah accountability of LMA is a very distinct, different function. And so the ability to adapt to that, some can adapt and some can't adapt. It's not necessarily what we love to do. And then the transition from being a a manager of people to becoming a leader of leader of a function.
00:09:43
Speaker
the different levers that we need to pull at that point in time, and then to elevate up to be a business leader and the thoughts that we have to do. They're different. Now, each business is different. The speed by which we need to go through those transitions is different. And, ah you know, sometimes, and I can think about a team that I was having a conversation with is that they're in there coming up to their fifth session with me, you know, and if I had been a betting woman, I would have said some of those people wouldn't be making it. And yet what the leader has done very cleverly is we've worked together to see what additional support, coaching and mentoring that we can actually provide for those people who are struggling. Or I perceive to be, I'm not sure they'll make it. let's you know It's not for me to say that, it's for the team to work that out. and you know And they are responding really well because what we've done is actually being able to create an environment around them to actually support them.
00:10:31
Speaker
And so, yeah, if you leave a person on their own, they're going to they're going to struggle. But if we can look at how they got a very supportive environment and that's about the environment that we create as leaders as our own people. ah If they've got people they they can look at, that they can have role models around them that they can learn from, they can grow. so I don't think it's the case if that they're wrong but if they're the wrong person in the wrong seat, they're always going to be the wrong person in the wrong seat. I think it's about then about what can we to put around them to to evolve them. But I do think that there is a point by which let's not try this for too long. And and so it's about ensuring that we are clear about how long are we willing to allowed to see if that growth actually takes place. Because, you know, we talk about get it, want it capacity. and If we talk about capacity that you might have to know someone doesn't have capacity because they don't have the knowledge. But if you need that knowledge now, you need that knowledge now. So it's how long are you you willing to wait for that to turn around? That was a long answer, wasn't it? That was a fantastic answer. And it makes sense actually, as to why it's helpful for folks if they're, you know, they're listening to this, watching this now.
00:11:35
Speaker
They do have the opportunity to take a clarity bake and come into the session introspecting around what they think's working, what's not, their role as leaders in the in their people agenda. Because if I'm honest, when I read your title, it's like preparing your people agenda for growth. I probably misread it as kind of preparing your people for growth, but I guess there is a the first part is preparing yourself for growth right as a leader of people. Yeah, so if i I'm going to draw but not go too heavily on some of the work that um I learned before I became an EOS implementer, which ah relates to our concept of hitting the ceiling, that five leaded abilities that we need to master. But what I was very able to see very clearly when it came to the people agenda, you know running a business with 10 people
00:12:18
Speaker
is very different to 20, is very different to 50, is very different to 100, is very different to 250. And fifty then what I learn is what the levers you need to pull to be able to engage all of those people. So i'm going to share I'm planning on sharing a little bit of that, but not making it all about that. And so this is about saying is If you as a leader can predict you're going to go from here, you can start to anticipate what you need to put in place inside your organization to engage your people. Because we know when you've got 10 people, you can be really close to your people. When you get to 50, it's about at that point in time, youve view you've got a middle management layer. And so the challenges become about how do we how do we engage the middle management? How do we use some of the tools to do that? So the challenges become different. So if I can just share a couple of insights around that agenda, how it changes the focuses
00:13:05
Speaker
that we need to put our energy into in order to unlock all of that people energy. I'm gonna share a little bit about that and then link to that if I can do. ah She says about the term of GWC get it want it capacity is ah how can we see is what do our leaders need to be able to do at each of those stages of evolution to enable us to get our people agenda working for it well for us. That's so exciting. that I'm sure you haven't I'm sure you haven't decided this yet. I'm going to put you on the spot anyway. How interactive do you think the session's going to be able to be? Because it's a fairly big space, isn't it? You're in the main space, right? You're on the main stage. You're one of the you know one of the big... Yeah, I want to make it interactive. I want to try and make it interactive. i'm Mindful, the session I did last time, we had some interactive at the beginning and then it sort of just that becomes me talking and then Q and&A's at the end.
00:13:56
Speaker
um i'm ah I stand for a lot of fun and a lot of silliness in my session. and super yeah ah You know me. ah Because I just believe people learn best when they're having a bit of fun. I think what will be the challenge is we've got 45 minute slots, is how do we do that? So I haven't worked that piece out, but I am you know a big believer about having fun. I'm not a I don't like doing a straight talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. I just, I switch off myself, so maybe I'm projecting out that other people will do so. I just need to make sure that the content's very rich, if it's going to be a talk, but if we can have a little bit of breakout and interactivity, even if it's just on the tables for a five minute something, I'm going to try and build that in.
00:14:36
Speaker
But hopefully if we can encourage people to sort of bring the tools, do the thinking in advance, then we're going to have a much we're go have a much better chance, aren't we, of being able to have really rich conversations. Exactly as we say to our team members, it's it's in the prep that if we fail to but you know we fail to prep, we prep to perhaps to fail. um And so it's about what we can do beforehand. Yeah. So I call it the baby bird syndrome that very often in an early days, my team's setting up and they go feed me, feed me, feed me, feed me. I'm just here to be entertained. I'm not here to entertain you. I'm here to help unlock the challenges. You have to come in and tell me what the challenges are first.
00:15:10
Speaker
Alice, while I've got you, I know you're, I've got, I've got about five more minutes for you before you have to run to another commitment. um I don't even know if we're going to use this in the, in in the teaser.
HR's Role in Leadership and EOS Structure
00:15:20
Speaker
But I am curious, as somebody that comes from a kind of deep sort of people profession background, and then into this EOS world of general leadership and management, we, um you and I had an a LinkedIn exchange recently about how um I lamented that it's kind of a tragedy that more ah HR leaders, for want of a better term, don't make that step into the kind of the integrator role and the general management gig. And when I present EOS to HR people, often what they complain about is when we teach the accountability chart, we talk about simplifying the structure as best as best we can. And we don't like don't inevitably put just a people box in the in in at the level of the chart that sits below the integrator. I'd love you just to riff on
00:16:06
Speaker
um how you think how you think about that. So how you think about kind of the people function being actually just divided across a leadership team anyway. And um that just that that that thought around the opportunity for people that come from people backgrounds to step into general leadership positions using EOS as a sort of tool and an accelerant. Okay, I think there are there are a couple of things in there first. It's about firstly, I hear there's a comment about HR and whether it sits its his own seat as its own function and maybe that gets absorbed. And secondly, I hear about that the potential for for great people, people HR, it's usually people and culture to go into the integrated seat. I think the two are different. Yeah, they are different. Yeah, whichever one you prefer. And when we run out of time, we run out of time. Yeah, okay. So the first thing is, um going to the the growth of the people agenda, if you've got business with 10 people, the the HR agenda is usually by the owner, you get to a certain point where the only can't does do that. So they delegate it. And, um but it often is still held by the owner. So the integrate in all the integrator is still often held at that point in time. And then we get to the point where sort of the the organization is starting to need to become more established.
00:17:12
Speaker
And so there's a demand from the business that we have a bit more policy procedure in there. And they'll often bring in an HR manager to deal with policies and procedures, but that's policies and procedures. And, you know, it's not really, and what I want not to say this, I don't know. so this That's not going to be the transformational work. It's more about compliance. And then we get to the point in time where a leader might really realize that they they themselves see HR as something different. They really see people as people. And that that I think is about the values of the leader and they go to the point where they themselves, you know, if you've got a really good leader who's really into culture that you often don't need a people and culture person because that is the leader's role. And so it's more they need an HR manager.
00:17:56
Speaker
But then you get to the point about saying is actually I want to delegate that whole function. I need my sidekick. It's my, you know, they know the culture inside out. They really are a good, right person for me. And they need somebody actually starting to work about how do we engage people? How do we create a great environment? Because our culture is a differentiating factor. So there are stages of growth, and I might touch upon this in the in the in the session to say, is that that role of ah HR changes. And so that you over here, HR administrator over here is it's a people it's a people leader first who understands
00:18:27
Speaker
What are the levers that we need to do in terms of people to generate improved performance and as a source of competitive advantage? They're very different people. Now, if we go along that scale, the people over here, they become, if they're very commercial ah people and culture, they know the levers of the business. They're thinking like a business leader already. What do we need to do? And they often become the coach for the other leaders around how do they improve the performance of their people? So I can think about my own role. I used to coach the leaders about what can they do to improve things, but I would also understand about the levers in the business that we need to pull to improve performance. And did they know them? If they didn't know them, I didn't know them. If I didn't know them, they should know them. So it's we're trying to work it out. and But this part here is talking to the integrator role, is what I found was that if you need an integrator who's very good at people and process, your head of people actually is very good at that.
00:19:19
Speaker
And they are already if they've got the relationship with all the other leaders, it becomes I become the conductor and conductress of the organization, I don't need to do it. but My my challenge, I think in my my limiting belief is then how far can you go if you're wanting an integrator who's kind of come in and advise, this is how a business actually runs. So you want a really big integrator, whereby the visionary just truly lets go. then im I wonder whether that is right. It depends on the caliber of the the the people in culture. But you often won't get that in a small to medium size organization that they've grown. You would probably have to buy that in from somewhere else. But I do believe it's but that is possible. And I certainly do believe that there are some really good head of people in culture who I sit in the teams and I see them and goes, you would be a fantastic integrator. So perfectly possible. I had a few.
00:20:10
Speaker
great people and culture people reach out to me privately after we had that exchange on LinkedIn. If they fancy getting a ticket on the 27th, you have to come and grab your elbow for a coffee. Yeah, ah whether they grab me for a coffee, I think last time it was felt like a morning. We need you Alex, we need to speak to you and I can't speak to everyone and all day. I'm just, I'm here, I'm a help first time person, just give me a shout, I'm here to help. I would love to see more head of people and culture come into it. I remember going to, for my bootcamp, and I think I was a bit of an anomaly, And you know yeah who's she turning up? She's not run a business, except for her own, one person. And and so if I could create for it create but create the pathway for other people to have the confidence to say, you can, you can, you can. I do exactly the same as you, Rob. I chat to them. So please just say hi.