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The Troubadour Travesty: Counting Crows 6/5/23 Concert Review with Graeme Brown and Ryan Fowler
188 Plays2 years ago
This is a review of the 6/5/23 Counting Crows performance at the legendary Troubadour theater in Hollywood, California. This was a semi-private concert hosted by SIRIUS XM. After recapping the show, Graeme asks Ryan Fowler to help him make sense of what he just witnessed...
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Purpose
00:00:01
Speaker
I'm
00:00:19
Speaker
Hey, everybody, and welcome to the podcast that I am entitling, The Troubadour Travesty, which is a review of the Counting Crows show on June 5th, 2023 at the Troubadour Theatre. Again, my name is Graham. I'll be the host for this particular podcast. We do have a special guest coming on momentarily.
00:00:41
Speaker
and we'll get to that in a minute but just to tee things up here this podcast is hyper specific again about this review of this show that just happened this past monday actually as we record this on thursday of the county crow's private show put on by serious xm radio in hollywood california at the famed troubadour theater i believe you would say
00:01:02
Speaker
And for those of you that don't know me, you may be asking, why should I care what your review is of this particular concert? And
Graham's Counting Crows Journey
00:01:12
Speaker
frankly, I don't know that you should, but I will tell you that I have certainly spent a great deal of time in my life invested in the Counting Crows. I've seen over 50 shows at this point. And that sounds crazy.
00:01:27
Speaker
partially because it is. But also, if you think about it, I've been going to shows for about 30 years, right? So my first concert that I saw was in 1996 for the Recovering Satellites Tour, and I've seen them many times, obviously, in between. I've seen them in Boston, I've seen them in Hartford, New York, LA, Winery, San Francisco, Warfield, you know, you name it, I've seen it. But this
Significance of the Troubadour Venue
00:01:52
Speaker
particular show
00:01:53
Speaker
Really was. You know in my mind potentially one of the best shows that I would have ever seen from the county crows now obviously you can tell from the title. I'm not sure that was fulfilled but you know this show at a tiny theater for a band that's been around this long.
00:02:09
Speaker
was kind of really important in the history of the Counting Crows ooze, if you will. So, I know I didn't probably say that correctly, but anyway, that is why we're spending some extra time. Now, will this podcast evolve and involve more Counting Crows deep dives? Probably yes. Will it include other things? Potentially. But for today, we're really just focused in on this show. So,
00:02:35
Speaker
With that said, a quick recap of the show and some just details before we get to our guest here. You know, this was a show, again, at the Troubadour iconic theater. This is a place a lot of bands playing on the way up. But it's my understanding that the Kennicros actually never played the Troubadour before. That's contrary to what Adam said during the show. He said, oh, we used to play here back in the day. But they build it as never having played the Troubadour before. I've not seen any documentation that they did play the Troubadour before.
00:03:04
Speaker
So this is a pretty big deal. And again, 500 person space, private show in a city that the County Crows had some really memorable times in, specifically when they were running long December and Adam had this house in the hills and the whole deal. So there's a lot going on in the show.
Star-studded Audience and Recording
00:03:22
Speaker
And the idea was that this show is gonna be a radio broadcast shared on Sirius XM, also played on the Howard Stern channel on Sirius XM.
00:03:32
Speaker
And so they were recording the whole thing. And, you know, this is the type of show where this kind of, it's always like a Star Wars bar for Counting Crow's show, right? It's a lot of interesting people. You got some really old people. You got people like myself that aren't exactly spring chicken, but, you know, kind of middle age. Then you've got some really young people and the band appeals to a lot. You also have some celebrities, right? So we had
00:03:53
Speaker
Most notably Cindy Crawford was in the audience with her husband. We had Bill Simmons. The pod father was there We had he from entourage. I think there's some random celebs You know, I wouldn't say any like a listers, but I would put Cindy Crawford in the iconic group so that was kind of the vibe and I would just say
00:04:12
Speaker
Before we kind of move on here, that Cat Corbett, who's a legendary radio DJ who works for K-Rock in LA and also for Sirius, was kind of
00:04:28
Speaker
And she got up there and gave a little speech, and she said, this is gonna be one of those moments when people say, were you there when? And everyone in this room will be able to say, yes, I was in the room when Counting Crows played the Troubadour Theatre. And I mean, you could not have gotten people more pumped, because we were all just nodding our head into an agreement like, that's right, we're here, we're about to see history.
00:04:53
Speaker
And with that, the band comes down this very small staircase to get on this tiny stage in a room that's no bigger than a one bedroom apartment with a loft to play what is essentially going to be the concert of our lives.
00:05:08
Speaker
Before we get into that, let's meet our guest. I am really excited to welcome my good friend and a friend of the podcast.
Introducing Ryan Fowler
00:05:24
Speaker
You're not quite a fan yet. Mr. Ryan Fowler to the pod.
00:05:30
Speaker
Ryan, welcome to the podcast. Before we get a lot of your thoughts here, which I'm excited to do, I just want to give a brief bio for folks. In addition to being my good friend, the person who introduced me to the Counting Crows, which makes you the right person for this job.
00:05:47
Speaker
You also have some experience in music. You worked in the radio business, more on the business side, but you did have workings with musicians and music and promotions, as well as working for an amphitheater in the Northern California area where you obviously were exposed to a lot of music and live shows and everything else. So you definitely have some expertise to bring to bear. But welcome. Thanks for coming on. Thank you for having me, Graham. It is an honor to be on your first show. I appreciate it.
00:06:17
Speaker
Excellent. I imagine you'll be a leading figure in many of these podcasts, specifically, you know, if we do a 1.82 deep dive, there's no one else I would call. Yeah, I'm your guy. No doubt. Excellent. Well, before we get into some specific questions,
00:06:35
Speaker
What are your thoughts about the title of this podcast, The Troubadour Travesty? I love
The Birth of a Fan Journey
00:06:42
Speaker
the title of it. I LOLed when I saw what you had titled the podcast. It's perfect for your relationship with the band and specifically with Adam Duritz because
00:06:58
Speaker
There is this expectation ever since, okay, you know what, let's go back to the beginning. So I think you and I started listening to this band right around 1993 because I believe my brother told us about it, right? I believe that's correct, yes. Okay, so my brother told us about it because he was living in Northern California at the time and that's where they started. So he told us about it. The Bay Area bands or something like that.
00:07:20
Speaker
Exactly. He was one of those Bay Area bands that I think he was in college at the time, so they were probably big in college radio or whatever it may be. And so he passed that on to us and you and I started to listen to it and we became like
00:07:36
Speaker
completely committed to the band when we first heard them. I mean, we were all about the band. Almost, it was one of those things where I feel like everyone else in our orbit wasn't really feeling it. And the fact that so many people were not into it made us more into it. It was just kind of one of those, I guess, teenage rebellion sort of situations that we had. And we just started to get, I mean, as we started to just listen to August and everything after on a loop just over and over again.
00:08:04
Speaker
You know, it was perfect for us because it was it was a band that we could bond over. It had a good slate of these kind of dark songs that I think as tortured teenagers like we were at the time, we totally resonated with even though, you know, in hindsight, probably we had no idea what we're talking
Concert Plans and Cancellations
00:08:23
Speaker
about. But those songs
00:08:24
Speaker
meant something to us when we first heard him. It was definitely out of the ordinary. It wasn't, you know, it was away from the Pearl Jams that a lot of people were listening to. It was more that kind of folk classic feeling rock that was different than what was going on. So you and I got way into it back then. We've had what I'd say is like a tortured relationship, at least from a live
00:08:48
Speaker
perspective, we had a torture relationship with the band because I think you and I have had tickets. You've seen them, I will preface this by saying, your commitment to the band is much more than what my commitment to the band over the years has been based on the number of shows that you've gone to, the meet and greets, the travel that you did to go see the band. You've given a lot to the Counting Crows, much more than I have. Some would say too much. Some would say too much, yeah.
00:09:16
Speaker
And I think you and I have had tickets for five shows to go to together over the years. A couple of them were phenomenal. We saw them at the Warfield. That was phenomenal. The best Counting Crow show I ever saw was at the Wiltern in LA in 2002, 2003, something like that. That's like its own story because of the post-concert experience.
00:09:43
Speaker
The torture relationship that you and I have had is based on the fact that of those five shows, two of those five shows were canceled on the day that we were supposed to go to the show. The first one being 1994, when like the band was just starting to get big and you and I were like the guys that had been listening to The Counting Crows before anyone else that we knew at least had really gotten into it. And they were starting to get big and they were playing at the, I think the Palace Theater in New Haven.
00:10:12
Speaker
It was in like December of 94 and you and I were like bragging to everybody at school that we're going to do this thing. We were so amped up. It was one of the first concerts I had ever been to. And we're like, I mean, that day we're amped up to go to the show. And at some point we found out maybe on the radio, it was announced that they had pulled the plug on the show that day and we're not going to reschedule. So right off the bat, we had this like bad Counting Crow's live experience.
00:10:40
Speaker
That was, you know, was somewhat validated when that's the first one I ever saw was a 1996 show for recovering satellites. I think at the Hartford Amf Theater, if I'm not mistaken. Thank you. And then years later, I think 2019, maybe 2020, you and I had tickets to go see The Counting Crows and Matchbox 20, if I'm not mistaken.
00:11:04
Speaker
You had actually flown up from Southern California to Northern California to come join me for the show. I picked you up at the airport. We had gone to the hotel to check in. We had gone out to the liquor store to get 12 families behind. We left our families behind.
00:11:22
Speaker
we left everyone behind i mean we i think for the both of us it was the first time we'd actually gotten out of the house in months of life this was a big deal and someone from the radio station that i knew called me at like three o'clock that day and said tonight's show with the county crows has been canceled i said what
00:11:43
Speaker
And he said, yeah, show's canceled. We looked into it a little bit more. If you remember the weird story, they were bringing the bus for the Counting Crows behind the stage. I guess there's a long, windy road that you have to drive behind the Shoreline Amphitheater, kind of a hilly up and down road to get to the back of the stage. And the bus got stuck or something, and they couldn't get the gear to the stage, so they just canceled the show altogether. Yes.
00:12:10
Speaker
So just, I mean, amazing shows in there, but also a history of bad luck when it comes to seeing The Counting Crow's live has been our experience with it.
00:12:22
Speaker
When it came to this show, the series show, I heard about it because I have the series app on my phone.
Ticket Excitement and Challenges
00:12:30
Speaker
I got a pop-up that said, enter for tickets to go see The Counting Crows at the Trouboros. Sounds amazing because you're right. It's like 500 people, super small, usually very small bands are playing there. I think I contacted you about it and said, had you heard anything about this? I was super pumped up because I remember
00:12:50
Speaker
two or three years ago, before, this is gonna make me look a little uncool, but two or three years ago, before the stadium tour with Def Leppard and Motley Crue went out, Def Leppard did a serious show, I think at the Roxy in LA. And I was sitting there thinking like, that would be so amazing to go see, and then I saw that the Counting Crows were doing it, and I thought, this would be possible to go see. Most people listening would say that that sounds actually much cooler than the Counting Crows show at the Troubadour.
00:13:17
Speaker
Yeah, I guess so. Yes, so you were the one, so I mean a lot to unpack there and I think definitely a deep dive needed later in terms of just the shows you've mentioned specifically that we've seen together that were really good. I believe I owe you a lot of credit because your brother did introduce us to the Cannon Crows. I remember buying the first CD and then thinking to myself, I don't
00:13:41
Speaker
It was like
00:13:52
Speaker
them just became totally infatuated so obviously owe a lot to you I also think you're the one that got the tickets to that 94 show which you used to have to like walk up to buy I believe so you know definitely you know you helped usher in my fandom which is good and you're right I think you've said before and you were leading into it but like
00:14:12
Speaker
I have high expectations for these shows, and so when the Troubadour Show came around, I don't know, would you say that there was any possible way that they could have met my expectation? There's nothing Adam Duritz has done in his entire life that has met your expectations for what you want from Adam Duritz. It's a seriously toxic relationship that you have with him because...
00:14:38
Speaker
he's not aware we're in it by the way exactly it's a one it's a completely one-sided relationship right but it's always been it's the strangest thing to watch from afar because you love turrets you love this band
00:14:52
Speaker
But yet, anytime you invest anything into them, whether it's time, money, travel, you always talk about how they're going to let you down again, how this is going to be a disappointment. And time after time again, you walk away from an experience with turrets being disappointed, upset with the outcome of it, but you just keep going back to the trough and keep feeding and feeding. It's very, it's not healthy.
Alternate Version Disappointment
00:15:20
Speaker
Well, listen, that's true. But just like the little kid whose dad doesn't show up to play catch of them at the field, it had been a long enough time. So I wasn't going to necessarily start here. But for this show, I really didn't see disappointment coming, to be totally honest with you. I felt like this particular show, there was no possible way that they were going to let me down.
00:15:44
Speaker
I couldn't have. And by the way, they walked down the stairs. So kind of getting into the show now, they're walking down the stairs. I'm thinking like this is incredible. This is a big band. There's like seven people. They fill amphitheaters with sound. They're going to play in this tiny stage. I was actually concerned
00:15:59
Speaker
that they were gonna like blow the roof off this place, right? So they come down and they start with Good Night Elizabeth, which by the way, is one of my favorite songs, if not my favorite County Crows song. So now I've got the Cat Corbett intro, I've got Cindy Crawford, who was post plastered all over my walls as a kid. I've got Bill Simmons, who I'm a huge, rare fan. I actually saw him before the show and bought him a drink at the restaurant next door. Like I'm peaking right now and they're playing Cat, they're playing Good Night Elizabeth. And I'm thinking to myself,
00:16:27
Speaker
Please God, play this song all the way through because for the last five to ten years they have been doing this alternate version where they play Pale Blue Eyes, this other song, which is fine, right? But the song in Elizabeth by itself is awesome. And in years past they would do creative things like add other alts to this song, including like
00:16:48
Speaker
Chelsea, famously at the Hammerstein Bar, and some other, you know, like a Christmas kind of story or a sad Christmas story that he used to interject. So like some famous alt. So we're going through like, there's so many ways that this could go, that would be awesome. There's really only one that I hope doesn't happen. And as we get to the end of Dan's guitar solo, and they start going, linger on. I was like, Oh, come on. I mean, I just
00:17:14
Speaker
I just expected more, right? I just was hoping that this might be different, you know? And so, you know, I guess what I would ask you is, like, does that bother you? Like, does that make you feel like this is lazy? Because to me it feels lazy. It feels like you had this opportunity with this tiny show. Now, we're only one song in, so I'm still, like, really happy. Like, they sound great. But, like, you know,
00:17:41
Speaker
if you hear the same alternate version, does it make you think like, you know, the band's just not, it used to feel like they were just improvising on the fly, you know? And I feel like we lost that a while ago. How do you feel about that?
Setlist Predictability
00:17:52
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I remember when they first got really successful and people would go see them in concert, there were casual fans and we'd be standing next to them at a concert or we'd hear about it afterwards.
00:18:07
Speaker
would be, you know, they're there to see Mr. Jones, right? And some shows they would, you know, this was at the peak of the popularity of Mr. Jones, they would come out and not play Mr. Jones. That made people crazy. Or they played Mr. Jones and interject different lyrics. And people are like, why are they changing the song so much? And they would take other songs and shift the arrangements or
00:18:30
Speaker
do alts with different songs. And for like super fans, it was awesome. Like not knowing where the band was going to go on a night to night basis and being surprised and knowing that you could see something really special with them doing something different or Durrett's going off on some tangent, whatever it may be, made the whole experience really, really cool. But
00:18:55
Speaker
Like you said, if they've been doing Good Night Elizabeth slash Pale Blue Eyes, this exact same way when they played Good Night Elizabeth for years, it feels very forced. The band's like, hey, we're still those guys.
00:19:11
Speaker
Because you probably don't follow us every night in what we're playing on a set list, from a set list perspective, but for the hardcore fans who do know, they're seeing they've been playing Goodnight Elizabeth slash Pale Blue Eyes, and that's been the only version they've been playing of that song for years. That feels a little forced and a little bit lazy, yeah.
00:19:30
Speaker
I totally agree. And I think that, you know, again, they sounded good, though. I thought his voice actually sounded good. And that's a good song because it's not like super heavy, but there's a guitar. So it was interesting when they did the pale blue eyes linger on in me, who has become much more of a focal point. This band starts going nuts on his guitar blows his amp.
00:19:47
Speaker
And so now they're just standing there in a very close space, a little harder to improvise that nothing's happened when there's a tech running on stage trying to fix the thing. And they're like, Dan, you play. You could hear Adam say to Dan, like, Dan, you take it. So he just starts playing whatever. And I was like, maybe this is someone trying to tell you something. Maybe you should have just played the song that Dan plays and Amy could get his later. But so anyway, they go through this version. I'm still like, fine, whatever.
00:20:16
Speaker
And then at this point, Adam is gonna speak. And I had been emailing and texting you, some of our other friends, Chris, who will be on at some point, I spoke to my wife about it, kind of trying to guess what Adam's speech would be. And I was really hoping
00:20:32
Speaker
that it would be a speech like how important the show was to them, and how they're back to their second home, and how he used to bartend at the Viper Room, and the guy Dave would let him in at the door, whatever, you know, like I was really hoping for that. Instead, what we got was
00:20:48
Speaker
Hey, my voice doesn't really sound good because I'm sick, which we're like peaking in the audience. So we're like, uh, and then he's like, yeah, but I know it's not COVID because I had COVID two weeks ago when we were in Australia and everyone's like COVID, like we're trying to like move on from COVID now. We're standing as close as humanly possible to each other.
00:21:08
Speaker
It's hard to tell if he's making a joke about COVID or what's going on, but like, no one wants to be talking about that at this point. We're trying to be like, we're in the moment of seeing, you know, the Beatles, the dead Solomon or something like that, right? Like this is supposed to be like, and he's now he's saying his voice sucks and he's sick and it's probably not COVID, but it could be COVID. It was very confusing. And then he's like, anyway, let's keep going.
00:21:30
Speaker
Which I just, again, I've had a lot of bootlegs. I had at one point a round-tier collection. It was 10 CDs of all just round-tier different versions. In all the shows I've seen, he's spoken. How many times that you've seen them live has, when Duritz has spoken, has it met the moment that you were hoping it would meet? Oh, gosh. I mean, the fact that like nothing comes to mind
00:21:59
Speaker
There haven't been many moments that I thought were perfect. I will say this in regard because I didn't hear the speech because I wasn't at the show. I've just seen clips online from the show. I thought he sounded fine.
00:22:13
Speaker
Okay, so that's a possibility. And I think, yeah. So I thought he sounded fine too, which was weird. It's like when someone who's a comedian or an actor is like, oh, sorry, I just missed my line. And you're like, we have no idea. We're totally bought in. You don't need to say that. Also, I thought it was weird for the serious people to be like, we're putting on this private show for The Counting Crows. And he's like, later on in the show, he's like, oh, the serious people will get to hear how bad my voice actually sounds. And again, we're all like, we don't know that. It sounds fine to us.
00:22:41
Speaker
I would say that realistically there are some bootlegs of him doing speeches where he's talking about being a dishwasher and he's like I want to be a rock and roll star and like hey mom look at me like that whole thing like those are awesome. I've personally never really seen him deliver a speech like that it's always been like dude just
00:22:57
Speaker
Just minimize and give us what we want. Just say, this is really important to us. We're going to put on a killer show. Thank you so much for being fans for 30 years. And here you go. That's just get out of the way. So it's kind of a reluctant rock star in many ways, which I think is its own podcast separately. Well,
Adam Duritz's Performance Style
00:23:18
Speaker
if you think about it, I mean,
00:23:21
Speaker
considering your run of bad luck, or at least our run of bad luck. I wasn't at the show with you at the Troubadour, but if he wasn't doing this for serious, I bet there's a very good chance they probably would have canceled that show considering he was sick. Right. Well, that's, I actually thought about that. I thought we're going to get a canceled show. And in fact, we did get a canceled
00:23:41
Speaker
Sorry, I'm losing my mind here. They didn't do an encore. Basically, they just walked up. He said, in lieu of an encore, we'll play you a couple more and we'll walk off. And it's like, okay. So right away, we're like, this guy's going to have a bad voice. He's sick and we're not going to get an encore. It's like, awesome. Let's just take all the magic and suck it right out of this place.
00:24:01
Speaker
Anyway, I digress. So moving through the set list, let's just take a little walk through the set list as we start going through. I don't know if you have it pulled up. So we go from Goodnight Elizabeth, and then we go right into, what's the second song that we went right into here? So they went into Hard Candy next. Great song. Place is still going nuts. So far, so good, right? Song three.
00:24:27
Speaker
Mr. Jones. Place is going nuts. I've seen that song a million times. I don't even like it that much anymore.
00:24:34
Speaker
it crushed. Every single person in that room was going bananas. And when they did this, she's not looking at you, you know, she's looking at me that through like they've looked up at Cindy Crawford and it was just like, we're here. Like we're doing it. This is like, how cool could this be? So we're crushing it. All right. So Mr. Jones, and by the way, if the kind of crows wanted to make people happy with their set list, just pull up in your Spotify playlist and just play the top songs. Don't overthink it.
00:24:58
Speaker
The public has spoken. If you look at Spotify, it's like 640 million people have played Mr. Jones. The number two song, which I believe is Accidentally Love, is like 240 million. So it's a pretty big drop between the casual fan and then like, you know, it moves on down. Anyway, after that, we move into what do we have for number four? I love this song. I think you and I disagree on this one because I love this song, Colorblind. Okay.
00:25:25
Speaker
I understand it's a hit. People like it. It's just, it's not my favorite, but it's a, it's a good song. I wasn't, I was like, this makes sense. I think there's people here that want to hear colorblind. Would you say it's a top 10 kind of gross song? Maybe. I mean,
00:25:40
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's not like a. That wasn't a curveball. I felt like that was a good song, right? And I understand he needs to take a break now again. His voice sounded fine. It was a little clear at this point that like it was starting to go out, but it wasn't, but it was still OK. Alright, so then we go from there and then we get what's next Miami. Well, before we go on to the next one, I will say looking at their set list from the last two years.
00:26:09
Speaker
We talked, you talked about lack of improvisation, kind of going through the motions. They pretty much play hard candy, Mr. Jones, colorblind, every single show in the two, three, four slot. Right, right. It's for what, for like a decade, probably, if you went back, they're going to play those. So that was, you know, they're keeping the structure of what they've done the last couple of years so far in the set list.
00:26:34
Speaker
Which is palatable, by the way, because they're all good songs. But anyway, and I know that list pulled up, so thank you for my lack of preparation. Go ahead. Fifth song is where things could get interesting. Right now they get to go into like, let's dive into our catalog. It seems like, again, looking at the last couple of years, they kind of, they usually start off with something different every night. So you got the Good Night Elizabeth, Pale Blue Eyes, sometimes they'll do Round Here.
00:26:59
Speaker
They'll do other things in that opening slot. Then they pretty much always do Hard Candy, Mr. Jones, Colorblind, and some order there between two, three, and four. Then five, six, and seven tend to kind of be a mixed bag as well. For you at the Troubadour, song number five was Butterfly in Reverse.
00:27:19
Speaker
Which is literally what I had been texting you and others saying, I can't wait for him to disappoint me at this show and say, ladies and gentlemen, butterfly in reverse. And then he actually played it to a confused look on many people who are even pretty hardcore fans. Yeah, I was worried. I was concerned. Yeah, that was their first misstep of the night, I'd say.
00:27:41
Speaker
I totally agree. And I don't hate that song, but I certainly wouldn't put it in the 15 song set list at the most iconic theater that you're probably going to play for the rest of your career. So they play that, then they go to recovering satellites, which by the way, I think is a great song.
00:27:58
Speaker
and they really rock out. Now this is where my fears of their power in this small place were thou viscerally experienced. I mean, my ears, I played drums for a while in a basement with notepad walls. I have terrible hearing. And it was really bothersome how loud it was. And again, it was at this moment where I was like, Kevin said it was a great song. People were totally into it. But I was like, did anyone say, hey, let's maybe mix in an acoustic set at the show?
00:28:26
Speaker
or hey let's do a stand-up base tonight because it's a small venue or let's do something like we used to do they used to do that I mean they had if you look at their album sales it's like seven times platinum for august everything after two times platinum for recovering the satellites one times platinum
00:28:42
Speaker
for this desert life and then it goes down pretty progressively from there but like the double album of acoustic across a wire and then the live show if you didn't have that in college back in the day who were you really i mean everybody had that album and it's to see them not even like think of that or address that or try to do that particularly when people like taylor swift are on tour now or doing these breakout acoustic sets and people like this is crazy she does it every night like
00:29:12
Speaker
And to me, people's ears were bleeding at this point. They were still smiling, but it was really, really loud. And I felt like Duritz was screaming, which wasn't helping his vocal problems, so. Well, you know, for them doing this show that's going to be broadcast on Sirius and doing it in this iconic theater that very, very few people were lucky enough to get tickets for, I don't think you're wrong in thinking they do something a little special there in the middle.
00:29:39
Speaker
Right. I guess the argument can be made, well, let's give them what they're going to get on tour. But then that would be like, well, do you want people to come to your shows? Because this is what you've been doing for the last 10 years. And every time I go, I call you and say I'm very disappointed. Okay, next day I play Miami. I think it's a good song. Fine. People liked it. People liked it. I was like, okay, we're still doing pretty well here. Seven songs in, we've had like one kind of stinker.
00:30:05
Speaker
No, I love Miami. I guess I like Miami more than you do. And it's a loud, fast song. Was it too loud and too fast for the room? It was a little early. Normally that's a little later in the show, kind of even a closer or an encore. So yeah, it was a little loud. And also there's some keyboard parts in that that in a big amphitheater are not so like,
00:30:28
Speaker
It sounded a little funky. I could see Charlie doing his mix on his keyboard or something, so it was a little off. But I mean, still fine. Good song.
00:30:44
Speaker
Okay, here's where the set list takes a wrong turn, in my opinion.
Audience Engagement Issues
00:30:48
Speaker
So we go 8, 9, 10, 11, The Tall Grass, Elevator Boots, Angel of 14th Street, and Bobby and the Rat Kings. That is the Butter Miracle Suite 1, which is their most recent release, which I think was like two years ago at this point.
00:31:01
Speaker
And, you know, from my perspective, having seen all those live and used them as bathroom or beer breaks, I was not thrilled to hear that. Some of them actually sound, but like the Tallgrass, which is a truly terrible song in my opinion, actually sounds decent in person. And Elevator Boots, I'm fine with. Again, maybe it's the 47th best kind of grow song or something. But to do the whole EP, which I know that's what it's intended to be, play it from start to finish, it's a story,
00:31:31
Speaker
It's a story no one wants to hear or read, really, as far as I'm concerned. So to take four songs out of 15 and make them four songs, and by the way, the play's shut down at that point. I mean, not only did people go to the bathroom, but it was totally quiet. My friend who's there was on Instagram at some point. I mean, it shut down. So what's the rationale, Brian, for four songs mid-set?
00:31:58
Speaker
What are they trying to do? Sell more? Butter Miracle Suite? Like, what's happening? This is the curse of being an Academy Crows fan is because those high highs of Duritz being this phenomenal artist on like another level than the rest of us makes her some amazing moments. Those are some of the moments we've talked about from past shows. But also as an artist, he gets these projects and he gets these songs and these
00:32:27
Speaker
concepts and those become his baby. I mean, butterfly in reverse is a great example. I don't know of anyone that likes butterfly in reverse. But if you look at the last two years, they play it often, maybe like every other show, they're playing butterfly in reverse. And you would think
00:32:42
Speaker
At some point, as an entertainer, you look at the audience and see the audience reaction. And I'm sure it's not a good reaction in the audience when they play songs like Butterfly and Reverse and say, OK, you know, the ticket paying audience is not really feeling what we're doing right now. Maybe we should.
00:32:58
Speaker
maybe we should pull back butterfly and reverse a little bit but he doesn't do that like he gets so attached to certain songs or certain projects that he's he's gonna you know he's going to shove it down your throat whether you like it or not and and butter miracle like you said it's fine i've listened to it it's i don't remember a whole lot about it um i think it was great when i listened to it it's it's
00:33:25
Speaker
It's a cool idea, I guess, trying to tell a story through these four songs. But like you said, for a special event like this, where you got 15 songs, and what is that? A fourth of the show is the Butter Miracle EP, that as you said,
00:33:41
Speaker
the room is emptying. And I'm sure the room has been emptying for the last two years that they've been touring with this album. And they don't read the room and say, you know, maybe you cut it down to two of the four songs. But he is so hung up on this concept of start to finish. The Tall Grass is the first chapter. Bobby and the Rat Kings is the fourth chapter. And that's our novel here. You're going to have to ride this out with us. Just seems a little self-serving.
00:34:10
Speaker
Okay, I could not say better and I don't need to say a lot more on it. What I will say is I think it's emblematic of some other part of Counting Crow's legacy that cannot be overlooked, which is that, and it's another podcast, but it's like, at some point in control, you need to have a strong-willed person with a conviction to be in the same room as some of these rock stars, right? Because they think,
00:34:35
Speaker
this is great, this is how we're gonna do it. You need someone else like the producer for August and everything after to come in and be like, we're gonna try it a little something different, you know? And I think that you're gonna get something out of this more than you expect. So someone to like push back a little bit, because I think what's happened is that there's no one to push back. So if Doritz is like, we're gonna do the whole album, no one's like, how about we do two? Can we do two of the four? Like someone should be like raising their hand.
00:35:01
Speaker
I don't know if that's happening behind the scenes, but I think, personally, that the Counting Crow's career trajectory would have been much different had there been someone in the room that had a point of view that could just step in and be like, we can't do this. Are we trying to get people to come to our concerts this year? Look at what Billy Joel and some of his other stars have done. They've literally even opened it up to, you vote for the songs, you hear them. And if you see a Billy Joel concert, it's still awesome. And he might play a weird song with that weird songs like Vienna, which is still an awesome song.
00:35:30
Speaker
you're not gonna get, you know, deep cuts off of like the River of Dreams album that no one liked, right? Like he's gonna give you what you want, whereas Doris just will not do it. And so that's why as a fan it pisses me off because I'm like, ticket prices are not cheap anymore. They're charging up to like $600 in Los Angeles for their meet and greet packages. Like at least you could do as play the songs I like, you know, but anyway.
00:35:54
Speaker
I digress. It is interesting how many of those guys have been in the band for so long and it still is, I mean you can tell it's still very much Adam Duritz is the boss. Yeah. He's the Springsteen of the Counting Crows. They follow his lead. They hitch the wagon to Duritz for better or for worse. Right. And you know we have moments like we talked about where there's stuff that
00:36:16
Speaker
You know the band knows that the fans aren't feeling it, but they keep doing it. They keep doing it. And I think you're right. And I think that
Band Dynamics and Creative Control
00:36:22
Speaker
is an idea for a future podcast. There's that one video, it's like a, I don't know what it is, like a documentary where Charlie says, look, when I was in the audience back in the day in Berkeley and Duritz sang around here for the first time, I just knew this guy had a gift. And when I was asked to be part of the band, I just knew we'd be all right as long as we let this guy like write the songs and lead the way. And so basically they'd been doing that for 30 years. And so that's, I get it, but like,
00:36:45
Speaker
It's too bad. People like David Bryson are just standing in the corner now. He's like, I stopped writing songs four albums ago, and we've had a little bit of a downturn since then. He's completely in the shadows now, isn't he? He doesn't even. He's there, but he's only there in his physical appearance. That's it. If you look at the songwriting credits for him, they end after the Hard Candy album, and that doesn't surprise me.
00:37:10
Speaker
I think he has some of the magic sauce that was part of some of their best songs. He's like, here I am. I've got this jewel on my forehead. Anyway. That's an interesting one. The change that took place within, it appears there was a change in the power dynamic or the hierarchy within the Counting Crows when Emerglot came in and became a regular member of the band. That became Durritz's guy. Right. 100 percent. Everyone else fell to the side. You can talk about that another time.
00:37:40
Speaker
things if there's anyone who has a voice with durets it's immerglock and he doesn't seem to be using it much so i totally agree i mean he literally set him on stage right next to himself and he took all the guitar parts so yeah clearly i agree that's another one so they finish up rain king
00:38:00
Speaker
Good song, obviously people were totally into that. They did the same ending in that one. I forget what it is off the top of my head, but it's the same thing they've been doing for a decade. Then they did a long December, another opportunity for Doris to talk about how he lived up the street and at this house, and he didn't really get into it. He's like, I'm not feeling too good. This isn't going to sound that good. We're going to skip the encore. And at this point, I was like, maybe I should just leave now. Beat traffic.
00:38:29
Speaker
The long December that was cool. Then they played hanging around, which I'll tell you was actually the right choice for this crowd because it's people again that he probably hung out with back in the day. We're in Los Angeles. I've been bumming around this town too long. Everyone really got into that again. Brutally loud, but like good.
00:38:44
Speaker
And then Holiday in Spain, which is a good song. I do like Holiday in Spain. I think it had its moment, though. I don't know that I needed to hear. I would have liked to see Murder of One, Up All Night. I mean, I don't know. You could pick through. I would have even preferred Scarecrow at some point during this set. So anyway, and then they wrap it up and that was it. And they said, you know, good night. And we kind of all shuffled out and, you know,
00:39:12
Speaker
I had similar conversations around the set list with a few people that were saying near me and it was, I think in retrospect, it was a good show, but like nothing special. And I'm really kind of, if I'm Sirius XM, I'm kind of wondering like,
00:39:28
Speaker
these guys just mail it in? Like, is that what we just witnessed? Like, are they going to drive ticket sales to the dashboard confession? Like, no special guest. No, hey, we're here in LA and out comes, you know, I don't even know who it would be. If it was Doritz, he'd pick some obscure band we didn't know. If it was someone else, they'd pick like Billy Joel had
00:39:45
Speaker
Axel Rose come out and do, oh gosh, I forget, he did, it's always, it's still rock and roll to me. And he sang, he's like, my friend, Axel Rose. And the place is like, oh my God. Deriz and I'd be like, here's my friend, John Johnson, from the jiggle of it. And everybody'd be like, God.
00:40:05
Speaker
So anyway, you know, I know we got to wrap up here shortly, but I guess anything you wanted to hit on before we- Yeah, you know, a couple things come to mind. The last four songs, although hit songs, Rain King, Long December, Hanging Around, Holiday in Spain, again, pretty much how they're wrapping up every show is with three of those four songs or four of those four songs. The songs that you and I love,
00:40:32
Speaker
Murder of One, Angel of the Silences, the plugin version of Angels of the Silences, they're just rocking. They haven't played those from what I can tell in years. Have you seen me lately? Have you seen me lately? And then the thing that jumped out too to me was,
00:40:49
Speaker
Thinking about this package tour this summer, to me it's the perfect package with them and Dashboard Confessional. I think it's like the fact the two of them haven't gone out before to me is really surprising. It's a great package. I do wonder though if looking at the last couple years when they were playing 20 to 22 songs a night,
00:41:13
Speaker
And they only played 15. Was that just a serious radio thing? Or are they cutting back the number of songs they're going to play this summer because they have a legit co-headline band playing with them that they're going to give more time to? It'll be interesting to see what that tour looks like when they roll out as far as the mix of who's getting how much time.
00:41:31
Speaker
I agree. It's a great call-out because this was in promotion of the tour, right? And obviously, Karaba has said that he was a huge Counting Crows fan, and that's like one of his influences, right? Kind of to emo was the Counting Crows, which probably makes sense because you and I sitting in about the nicest place to grow up and safest place to grow up, like crying in our basements to the Counting Crows music, you know, is something that clearly would have influenced the dashboard confessional.
00:41:57
Speaker
But I agree. I was like, is this one of those co-headlining tours where ultimately the Counting Crows start opening for Dashboard? Because I heard people online saying, oh, Dashboard's going to play 60 Minutes, and then Counting Crows is going to come on for a couple hours. And I'm like, listen, Dashboard has a lot of good songs. And I've seen them live. They're pretty good. And they have some diehard fans. So I am interested to see that. I think the Matchbox 20 show, the reason that was such a great concert is because I really like Matchbox 20. And they played like 25 songs.
00:42:25
Speaker
all of their like hits and the places going nuts. So I'm really interested to see how this shakes out. Can de Ritz hold up at this point? I mean, every tour they've had, I feel like recently he's going down with something. So I'm really kind of interested to see what happens.
00:42:42
Speaker
I mean, we'll give it a shot this summer. We'll see. I mean, I, you know, I think... Are you excited to see this tour for the County Crows or Dashboard Confessional? Because that's what I was going to ask you, like, I had it earlier here to talk about, but like, what's your value proposition for seeing them anymore? For me, I actually had stopped. Last year I said I was never going to see them again. I only went because you told me about the show and the venue was so iconic. Now, I did wind up buying tickets for the summer tour, but I'll be honest, as soon as I stepped out of the Troubadour, I thought I have to sell my tickets. Like, why would I go?
00:43:11
Speaker
do this again. So for you, what's in it for you? It's like 50-50 for me honestly. It's like I'm just as excited to see both bands. What I worry about is that
00:43:23
Speaker
they're gonna try to do a co-headline thing. And Dashboard comes out there and does an hour of the hits. Counting Crows comes out and does an hour, 15, kind of like what you saw the other night where we know what the set list is gonna be night after night. There's no real surprises, there's no real change. I'm sure they'll, you know, I think Duris is singing a couple songs with that Dashboard confessional. That'll be cool. I gotta think they'll do those duets. That would be interesting. So long, so long.
00:43:50
Speaker
Exactly. I mean, they've got some really good songs that they've done together. So that'll be cool to see. But at this point, I'm just as excited to see Dashboard Confessional. My expectations
Future Tours and Band Legacy
00:44:03
Speaker
are going to be low for Counting Crows. I'm kind of expecting them to roll out the same set list with four songs from Butter Miracle again, and just kind of knowing what I'm getting myself into as I walk into the building.
00:44:16
Speaker
I don't think there's any better way to end this podcast. And that really is what it was. I should have known better walking into that building when I was going to get from
00:44:28
Speaker
but exactly what they did. So I also, I've got these tickets to see the show. They were not cheap. Hopefully we'll get to see one together finally and they won't cancel it. I'd like to think they're gonna go back after this, maybe get some feedback, maybe listen to it themselves and say, hey, what can we do to improve?
00:44:49
Speaker
However, I don't know what proof I have that any of that is going to happen. I would assume they're going to do exactly what you said, which is roll the same setlist out. And I think the real interesting dynamic is the dashboard piece because I think dashboard has some really good songs and having seen them before live, they're really good. So hopefully they more than hold up their end of the bargain because I think they're going to need to. But we're not talking about counting crows is like a casino act in five years.
00:45:18
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, honestly, what's the end game here? Like, if this was a chance for a rebirth and they just played the same thing again, I mean, I guess people listening are probably like, dude, you're the sucker.
Conclusion and Reflections
00:45:29
Speaker
No one's putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy these tickets. It's just that those moments that we've had at some of these shows that are so good that make Counting Crow such a unique band, and the fact that how many bands are actually still playing from this generation. Like, I saw Pearl Jam recently, and they were fine, but like, Counting Crow has really held up well.
00:45:47
Speaker
I just keep hoping for some creative juice, and I would have liked to see it at this show, disappointed that I didn't because it seemed like I hit the lottery by getting tickets. But I appreciate you saying that maybe I should lower my expectations a little bit next time. The landing might be a little softer. Yes, definitely. That's probably the takeaway.
00:46:09
Speaker
Well, Ryan, really appreciate it. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your insights. We're definitely going to have you back on again as you and I break down more Counting Crows related things. And maybe we'll move on to some like Matthew Sweet or something else that's more in your wheelhouse as well. But thank you very much. And let's talk soon. Thanks, Graham. All right. See you, buddy.
00:46:36
Speaker
I'm not