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Episode 16: Lawyers for Civil Rights (with guest Ivan Espinoza-Madrigal)
20 Plays14 days ago
We're pleased to introduce another project partner on our show this episode: Ivan Espinoza-Madrigal, Executive Director of Lawyers for Civil Rights Boston. We've worked with LCR since 2018 when we helped the organization rebrand, and have remained in close partnership ever since. In this episode, Neal and Adrian sit down with Ivan and discuss that initial partnership, our work since then, and highlight the important work LCR does and continues to do to protect civil rights in New England and beyond.
In this episode:
- Ivan Espinoza-Madrigal, Executive Director, LCR
- Lawyers for Civil Rights (website) (Libretto case study)
- OverUnder (design partners)
- Hacks (TV show)
- Project Hail Mary (book) (movie)
- Pittsburgh Pirates "Hoist the Cones"
Hosted by Neal Kane and Adrian Pio
Produced and Edited by Tiffany Carlson
Music by Coma-Media, via Pixabay
© 2026 Libretto. All Rights Reserved.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'Well Put' Podcast
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome to Well Put, a podcast about communications for mission-driven organizations from Libretto. My name is Adrian Pio, VP of Messaging here at Libretto, and I'm joined today by our president, Neil Cain. Neil, do you want want to say hi?
Spotlight on Lawyers for Civil Rights (LCR)
00:00:25
Speaker
Thanks, Adrian. So today's episode is going to feature a discussion about Libretto's longstanding relationship with lawyers for civil rights and and their executive director, Ivan Espinoza-Madrigal.
00:00:41
Speaker
And we're just going to be talking about some rebranding work that we did with the organization and some subsequent communications we've been working on for a number of years.
00:00:53
Speaker
And that will be combined with discussions just around the work of the organization in general and at the present time. So Yvonne, thank you so much for joining us and welcome.
00:01:06
Speaker
Thank you for having me. It's such an honor and a pleasure to be with our friends from Liberato. Thank you, Neil. Thank you, Adrian. You're very welcome.
Ivan Espinoza-Madrigal's Background and LCR's Mission
00:01:16
Speaker
So let's begin perhaps with a bit of information about your very interesting background and how you came to Lawyers for Civil Rights and just maybe tell the folks a little bit about the organization's work.
00:01:33
Speaker
I've been at Lawyers for Civil Rights now for 11 years. As the executive director, we are based in Boston. We provide free legal support to low-income people, to immigrants, and to people of color. We support folks as they are fighting for justice on civil rights issues. ah Also, we support small businesses as they are launching and growing. And so our work is multifaceted and spans
00:02:07
Speaker
activities at the community level where we're helping folks understand their rights and into the courtroom also as we are bringing cases and representing clients from our communities. And then we also support entrepreneurs in their business journeys. And so ah that at level of engagement that spans from community to the courtroom to the small business landscape is all of what our organization does and has been doing for a very long time. We were founded in the 1960s at the height of the civil rights movement at the request of President John F. Kennedy and our work
00:02:54
Speaker
ah has been vital in making sure that rights are enforced and respected and that we have ah economic justice ah closing the wealth gap, particularly along ah racial and gender lines and and promoting economic growth and economic opportunity and low income zip codes.
Effective Communication of LCR's Mission
00:03:17
Speaker
These are all issues that we've been championing for decades. But in the current climate, They have become even more important, ah more important to support small businesses since the pandemic affected many of them, ah more important to do civil rights enforcement when the federal government has stepped away from many of those spaces.
00:03:40
Speaker
and how to tell our story, how to talk about our mission are essential elements for success. And so we have relied a lot on you guys, ah Neil and Adrian, to help us tell that story and to really get out there in ways that make our mission, our vision and our day-to-day work a lot more understandable for lay people who are not necessarily following the blow by blow through courthouse dockets or ah necessarily counting the number of small businesses that we're supporting, which is in the hundreds each month. ah But telling these stories is an art in and of itself, ah which is something that you guys do very well and and that we have enjoyed doing with you as part of this journey of how do we make our work ah more relevant and resonate with more folks. I love that you mentioned that, Ivana. When we spoke ahead of this session, you sort of pre-recording, we were talking a little bit about how we first got to know each other and and what brought...
00:04:50
Speaker
you and LCR to libretto. And I think that that idea of sort of making the organization better known and more approachable and more understandable was at the heart of it.
Rebranding Journey of LCR
00:05:01
Speaker
And I wonder if you could just talk a little bit about sort of the pre brand, you know, what, what LCR used to be and and what that process was like for you to, um to sort of reconsider the way that you're framing yourself. I know that there that was a long process that we were very proud to have been involved with. the organization, as many nonprofits typically experience, um has gone through a lot of change over the almost 60 years that we have been around. and The organization was originally called ah Lawyers a Committee for Civil Rights...
00:05:40
Speaker
under law of the Boston Bar Association, which was a nod to Bit of a mouthful. yeah A mouthful, ah but also a nod to some of our early history. um when When I think longer names ah were more derogatory than they are today, um And over time that evolved to a somewhat shorter version, which was um Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights and Economic Justice. And that was supposed to be like the short form, more memorable way of calling the organization as we came into the 90s and early 2000s, but was still quite a mouthful. And we had a lot of people who would refer to us just as those lawyers. I always forget their name. I I can't remember who they are. um And that was actually quite common. And and that in and of itself.
00:06:45
Speaker
reflected the the fact that we were not memorable in how people thought about us and our presence in the landscape. ah People knew about us, knew about the work we were doing, but we were not a shorthand. We were not easy to digest and the easy to remember.
00:07:07
Speaker
And so in the ah In the 2010s, we started thinking more about, well, what are ways to make sure that we are more memorable?
00:07:20
Speaker
and And we thought a lot also about our graphic representation, how our logo looks. And we actually started there thinking, well, if we maybe refresh our logo, Like that could be helpful and that will do the trick. And maybe that's what people will remember.
00:07:38
Speaker
And in the process of of thinking about the logo and the logo redesign, um our graphic consultants said, you need a lot more than just a new logo. It's not just about... how you're graphically ah portraying the organization. It's also what you're called and and how people are gonna refer to you.
00:08:01
Speaker
and And it was at that point that they said, you need to call Libratto. Libratto needs to be a part of these conversations. they need to ah help us think through the nomenclature and the graphic identity and come up with a lockup that is ah reflective of of what would have currency and what will be memorable.
Overcoming Skepticism in Rebranding
00:08:23
Speaker
And so we went through that process with you guys ah in 2017, 2018, and concluding that process in 2018 to relaunch the organization's name and graphic identity.
00:08:39
Speaker
And as I recall, when we initially began talking to you, the name was not on the table. And i think we talked about you know things of around messaging and creating a tagline. And i I remember the initial presentation we gave to your team really well.
00:09:01
Speaker
And couple of things that stood out. One was this idea of, it was really a name that felt um like an anvil. I remember that was one of the analogies because it was just sort of, it was it felt like something that where there was a real,
00:09:14
Speaker
opportunity costs, and it could really impede your progress. And then we had found, think, a blog post someone had written where they said, i just went to this amazing event by this really cool organization that's doing very powerful work, and I can't remember what they're called. And this was like two days after the event.
00:09:39
Speaker
And you all were... I think because of your board, pretty skeptical about whether they would even entertain the notion of a name change. And i and i we felt like, well, they're lawyers. Let's make the case for them and see what happens. And it was a really, just a really...
00:09:59
Speaker
Fascinating process. And it's very gratifying for us, I think, when people do go with that kind of recommendation and when you can really see the the the benefits of that kind of playing out.
00:10:14
Speaker
And I think to your credit, Yvonne, there was a moment where we were saying, you know, we really think this is a recommendation we want to make to the board. And and you said, you know, let's give it a shot. Let's go for it. you know and And we're able to sort stand up and say, hey, we think this is the direction and we need to go and and to push for something that you thought maybe they wouldn't be super receptive to at first.
00:10:32
Speaker
And in the end, you know we we sort of got there. For sure. i have to say that that was one of the trickiest part of this process. Like we went into it wanting to be surgical, wanting to just make small changes and that we thought would be meaningful. But ah the logo itself wasn't enough.
00:10:53
Speaker
And then even when we thought about the name, ah I particularly approached it from a place of I don't necessarily want to rock the boat. I know that there's a lot of love, particularly from the board and from long standing supporters who, despite the lack of of of memorable catchiness to the name, ah have come to to love.
00:11:25
Speaker
the organization and know it that way. And so I also didn't want to be too disruptive. I wanted to ah pay my respects to the history, pay my respects to the board without being disruptive and without too much change. And so my approach to this was try to be very measured, very surgical.
00:11:51
Speaker
But the more feedback that we received from libretto and the more feedback we received from the graphic designers and from and from other commentators, it was very clear to us that if we were going to take the jump, we might as well jump in the deep end of the pool and go for something that would be.
Impact of Rebranding on LCR's Recognition
00:12:08
Speaker
a lot more impactful. and And at the end of the day, Libretto came up with a very elegant solution, which was a much more simplified and shorter version of the name, going from Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights and Economic Justice and reducing that to just Lawyers for Civil Rights.
00:12:34
Speaker
And so that became a very elegant way of simplifying and synthesizing the name, much catchier and with our ability to use the acronym LCR, which also has gained momentum since the renaming of the organization in 2018.
00:12:56
Speaker
And so as we think about what the last decade has looked like under the new name, under the new graphic identity, ah this has paid back significant dividends. Like, I don't think we would occupy the space that we currently occupy in the landscape if we had a clunky name. And I don't think we would be able to have the type of ah popularity that we enjoy in some circles ah if we didn't have ah assets that reflected this shorter, more nimble name, which kind of matched the identity of the organization. The organization is small and nimble and We pull a rabbit out of a hat in the work that we do, and we are ah punching well above our weight, but we do this in ways that are contemporary, that are creative, bold, nuanced. ah not clunky, not old school. And so it really matched the tempo of the organization to have something that was shorter and and much more accessible and memorable as a part of the organization. And so and so I think this is a constellation of factors as as we were doing more work and showing up in more nimble ways
00:14:26
Speaker
in the community and in the court, we were also showing up with a name that was memorable, catchy, nimble, that reflected the organization's place in the landscape. ah And so i I attribute that to ah having a lot more exposure. and And I like to think as a nonprofit,
00:14:52
Speaker
In our wildest dreams, what we all want is to be a household name, to have that type of memorable impact that people would be able to sit around the dining room table and say that organization and not just say that organization, but to say,
00:15:10
Speaker
lawyers for civil rights or to plug in whatever the name of the nonprofit is in a way that is simple, elegant, and that and that's conducive to driving more attention to the work itself, because you're not trying to trip over yourself to remember who they are. You're not trying to trip over yourself in remembering something that's clunky and and hard to say. And so for us, I think it definitely has paid back dividends
00:15:43
Speaker
in terms of of how it's positioned us in the marketplace. And I attribute that both to ah the smarts at Libretto for moving us in this direction, but also for the handholding, because I think we wouldn't have gone through that whole process if it wouldn't have been guided expertly by libretto in how to not just talk to staff, but talk to the board and talk to other stakeholders in ways that created synergy around the change. And so that handholding, frankly, I think is rare. Many other of consultants that we work with
00:16:28
Speaker
ah don't have that level of engagement, don't have that level of handholding that facilitated this process and that made it so much more doable ah for our board, gained significant traction and resulted in an overhaul of our organizational identity in a way that was much more elegant and simplified and still paid homage to our roots and still linked us to what people knew about us. It just shortened it and made it much more accessible and simple.
00:17:07
Speaker
Well, thank you for those lovely words. And i think I would add that we always talk about the fact that ah we're drawn to mission-driven organizations.
00:17:20
Speaker
And from the get-go, we felt like LCR's work was so compelling and so necessary. And in some ways...
00:17:32
Speaker
unheralded and that the organization deserved more of a place in the spotlight. And again, seeing that come to fruition for us also is extremely gratifying.
00:17:49
Speaker
So since the name was the new name was implemented, can you talk about a couple of the other initiatives that we've worked on together and how those projects have built on the work around the rebrand?
Libretto's Support for LCR Initiatives
00:18:04
Speaker
The rebranding was for sure the the biggest undertaking that we have done with libretto. And it has become an umbrella for a host of other initiatives and projects that we have used libretto for and expertise around ah communications,
00:18:30
Speaker
branding, marketing, fundraising. And um ah we've particularly enjoyed using Libretto for the launch of new initiatives and projects.
00:18:44
Speaker
or where we're doing work in a specialized area that we want to draw more attention and ah visibility towards that project. So for example, during a pandemic, a lot of our work revolved around health and health equity and health the disparities and how to close those health gaps. And we worked closely with Libretto to relaunch that health initiative ah and to create also a name and organizing assets around that work. which resulted in Lawyers for Civil Rights ah deepening and expanding its work around what we ended up calling, as as a part of our work with Libretto, health justice.
00:19:37
Speaker
ah And that project ah continued very actively during the pandemic years, And it was very nice to have its own set of communications and graphic assets to be able to showcase that work.
00:19:56
Speaker
We have also done a significant amount of work with Libretto around our small business initiative and speaking,
00:20:07
Speaker
ah speaking ah and written products for the small business initiative, which we call BizGro. Actually, Libretto was also involved in naming BizGro and expanding the universe of the BizGro offerings. For example, most recently ah with the Our entrepreneurship hub, which we're about to launch, Labretto helped us with ah the name for the hub, ah resulting in lawyers for civil rights adopting Biscot Central as the name for the entrepreneurship hub. And so we've done a lot of
00:20:55
Speaker
branding, communications, and positioning work with Libretto, not just for the organization as a whole, but also for key initiatives and components that live under the ah name and branding ah that Libretto created for us almost a decade ago. So filling out the rest of the space from a communications ah perspective, and and that includes ah how our website is ah presenting information about the projects to the world and also oftentimes ah donor pitches for how we are ah talking about the distinctiveness of the work and how ah that should invite investment. And so Libretto has helped us in everything from naming the projects to how we're talking about and presenting them on our and off our website, and then also helping us to create donor pitches for the advancement of that work. So um I like to think of it as as really robust and rich thought partnership.
00:22:12
Speaker
ah which is, i think, one of the most beneficial uses of libretto for me. It's, um could we be doing this stuff internally? Sure, and and many nonprofits do especially smaller nonprofits like us. But the thought partnership is invaluable, and it and it produces a much richer work product, ah and it helps create...
00:22:40
Speaker
ah much more nuance ah for how we talk about these initiatives and projects. And so we've ah really relied on Libratto for major launches, major announcements um to help ah create organizing principles around that work, to help create specific work choices around that work.
00:23:04
Speaker
and to help put all of these initiatives and projects within the broader umbrella that we created with Libretto almost a decade ago. And so that thought partnership and those interventions have been critical to our success over the past decade.
00:23:22
Speaker
yeah i also I also wanted to give a shout out to Over Under and to Chris Grimley in particular, who were the the design partners on the project, who also produced just really, really beautiful, um flexible, enduring work, which of course has been another critical dimension, I think, of the brand's success because those things are so interdependent.
00:24:00
Speaker
I was wondering if you could maybe for our listeners, yeah we're always trying to paint a mental picture of what our clients do. And is there a project that you might share with us that would give some into insight into how the organization
LCR's Role in Martha's Vineyard Case
00:24:16
Speaker
works? And of course, I think of the Martha's Vineyard project. i don't know that's one that you talked to folks about if there's something else you wanted to kind of share in terms of giving a little glimpse into the day-to-day.
00:24:25
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. We've had a lot of different high-profile cases happening Because many times we are filing lawsuits, ah whether it's ah against municipalities and cities or and against and the state or against the federal government. we ah ah We are completely apolitical at Lawyers for Civil Rights and we defend people's rights, ah whatever the source of of the problem may be.
00:25:02
Speaker
um That has led us to a lot of litigation against government entities, both under Democrat and Republican administrations. And that's just the reality of civil rights work is that You have to be there for the people um ah without fear or favor. And so um when the planes landed on Martha's Vineyard, ah we were...
00:25:30
Speaker
the first lawyers on the ground helping the migrants who had been on those planes. This is a case that arose when ah Florida Governor DeSantis organized two flights from the border, actually, to Martha's Vineyard.
00:25:50
Speaker
And the flights had almost 50 people. um It is it really a ah terrifying experience when you think about how this all went down. ah People in situations of intense vulnerability, people who ah are fleeing violence and ah persecution in their home countries, countries like Venezuela that have collapsed under authoritarian regimes and where surveillance is intense. And these countries, ah as they
00:26:33
Speaker
suffer intense political turmoil ah are not safe for many people to be in. ah This ah leads to asylum seekers trying to get to the United States. And oftentimes some of these asylum seekers are surrendering themselves at the border. They show up at the border. They surrender themselves and their children. And they asked for asylum, which is what happened in this case where ah all of the immigrants who had been transported from the border to Martha's Vineyard had surrounded, surrendered themselves at the border, had requested asylum. and They were known to immigration officials. They had been released into the community after being ah initially vetted by the federal government. And at the same time, you have and somebody in authority, a state governor, who is trying to really use these vulnerable families and their kids ah as political puppets, as just another headline to pull to try to make some type of
00:27:47
Speaker
politicized point about immigration and all at the risk of placing people in harm's ways. ah This was really unprecedented, moving people across state lines under false pretenses, moving them from the border to Martha's Vineyard and then dropping them off right there without any support, without any resources, without any of these people having anywhere to go that night. some with children ah not knowing where they were going to eat where were where they were going to sleep and it it was incredible not just to see that a government official was behind this and taking responsibility for this scheme but also the support from the community and how the community came together to support the migrants, to allow them to sleep in the community room of a local church, to provide them with food and essentials because they were being dropped off just as the island's getting cold in the fall and and they're not dressed for winter.
00:28:57
Speaker
And so the amount of community support, the outpouring of community support for these vulnerable families was really uplifting to see. And and it has such a wonderful contrast between light and dark, between ah what the government can do in its worst moments and what can make what humanity can do in its very best moments. And so when we got word that this had happened on Martha's Vineyard, we immediately went to meet with the migrants to interview them, take their stories, understand what was happening and to provide them with legal assistance. And within 48 hours, we were in federal court in Boston. suing ah DeSantis and the plane company for moving the migrants under false pretenses as part of a fraudulent scheme from the border to Martha's Vineyard. And that case remains ongoing. And it's um pretty emblematic of the type of work that we do, which is that we support people when they are at their worst, when they think that all doors have closed, that there is no hope, that there is no light at the end of the tunnel. And and here come the lawyers to do the work for free to support them. And and that's a really powerful ah role that we play and that um has been essential for lawyers for civil rights almost for 60 years now. And we do that work across many different areas from voting rights to education to employment. ah
00:30:41
Speaker
and immigration. And as I mentioned earlier, also with small businesses to make sure that they can succeed. And so that role of providing pro bono free legal services is a key element of both our identity and of our MO. That's the way we operate. And then ah the Martha's Vineyard migrants case, which remains ongoing in federal court even now, as we are holding the perpetrators accountable, is an example of that work. ah
00:31:12
Speaker
We have over 50 cases in our docket where we represent extremely compelling clients who have suffered terrible deprivations of their constitutional rights and their civil rights. And we have hundreds of small businesses that we're supporting, which are incredible small businesses, but it they don't have the type of investment and resources.
00:31:40
Speaker
and that more established or more affluent entrepreneurs would have. And so these interventions that we're doing each and every day, whether it's in court or in the small business arena, are interventions that otherwise would not happen if lawyers for civil rights weren't here. And so we occupy a special and unique role in the legal ecosystem. And it's been nice to be able to work with libretto to keep talking about this work and to make sure that it resonates with more audiences outside of the courtroom, outside of the legal community. so that more and more people can understand our mission, our purpose, and play a role in our future.
00:32:26
Speaker
Civil rights belong to everyone. Civil rights need to be made accessible. And and how we push back against misinformation and how we push back against all of these negative and harmful narratives is through messaging.
00:32:47
Speaker
And we've relied particularly on Librado for how to push through messaging that is clear and unambiguous about how We remain relevant and active in the current climate. and And that for us has been and important piece of making sure that Lawyers for Civil Rights has the thought partnership and concrete work product that comes out of a collaboration with Libratto help
00:33:22
Speaker
be able to gear up for the fight in the current climate. That is an essential part of how we are approaching the work that we're doing right now, but also the work that lies ahead. And as nonprofits, we tend to think about, you know, staying in our lane and doing the work that we are accustomed to doing. But messaging, communication, pitching,
00:33:44
Speaker
All of that is part of the civil rights work that we do and part of what other nonprofits need to do, too. And so it makes imminent sense from our perspective to be thinking about how we position ourselves with expertise from libretto on communications, visibility and relevance.
00:34:08
Speaker
I know, of course, as everyone knows, i could i could go on about this topic all the live long day. And I just before we yeah move along, there were just two points around language. Super fast. I want to mention that i was just thinking how the notion of othering, othering is always about lesser than.
00:34:26
Speaker
They say the other, but the other is never your superior or even your peer. It's always a code language for your inferior.
00:34:38
Speaker
and and i i might have mentioned this too, but we're also talking about we were interviewing um a black professor at a college month or two ago, and were talking about the anti-DEI sort of impetus. And we were saying how to be anti-DEI implies that you are um pro-exclusivity, pro-inequity,
00:35:03
Speaker
and pro-exclusion. And if you interrogate the logic, because these days everyone everyone's like, oh, de has gone too far. So I understand why people are anti-DEI. And if you look at like, that means you support the inverse of that.
00:35:16
Speaker
To me, as a word person, just interrogating the inherent idiocy in that is part of, I think, just what we need to do more of. And I just, and again, before we, um because then know we're gonna be wrapping up soon, but could you just talk a little bit about, and you've alluded to this in terms of how the work now is consistent with what you've done before and maybe how it's been calibrated in certain respects in the hope of meeting the present moment?
00:35:44
Speaker
I think one of the most important things to remember is that we cannot just cede ground ah because we're scared or afraid of rocking the boat.
00:36:02
Speaker
ah What we see a lot of right now is a lot of anticipatory compliance a lot of even just sense-making still happening where ah people are afraid to say something or do something. ah I think that's dangerous. I think that's really dangerous for us as a community, for us as nonprofits, um and certainly for us as lawyers, ah it is important for us to continue to do the work.
00:36:35
Speaker
um ah Safety first always, of course, but to do the work in ways that continue to be relevant. For us, that has meant continuing to file lawsuits against and government players and and not just pushing for ah but recognition of rights and and pushing to right wrongs at the federal level, but also pushing for what justice can look like in
00:37:10
Speaker
if local and state governments ah don't have paralysis by analysis or or some other type of inaction that prevents us from moving ah progressive agendas forward. I think that's critical and not progressive agendas for the purpose of progressive agendas, but progressive agendas for the purpose of keeping people safe and keeping people housed and keeping people fed and keeping kids in good schools.
00:37:37
Speaker
and making sure that all of us have the same opportunities when it comes to getting housing, going to college and all of that jazz. And so really what I'm talking about is, is and and this relates to some of the earlier points that we were talking about, how we support our our own humanity and how we support this by making people's lives better and improving people's lives.
LCR's Long-term Commitment to Civil Rights
00:38:15
Speaker
Ivan, it's a real pleasure to hear you talk about the work. Your passion fully shines through, and that's part of why it's so much fun to work with you on these types of messaging projects. You're an incredible messenger, incredible storyteller around the work.
00:38:28
Speaker
I'm also struck as you're talking about Lamartha's Vineyard migrants, you know, that original incident was, I think, four or so years ago. And now to think that that work, that litigation is ongoing, it just reinforces that the headlines are so fleeting.
00:38:43
Speaker
But the work is it takes a long time. it takes a big commitment. and And we're really glad and proud to work with an organization like yours that's continuing to sort of be boots on the ground and and fight those long fights and and make sure that the good guys win in the end.
00:38:57
Speaker
Before we wrap up, we always like to take a moment to think about some of the positivity in our lives, some of the things that that we're most happy about. We call that segment What I'm Loving.
00:39:09
Speaker
and Certainly anything is up for grabs, but I don't know, Neil, maybe if you want to kick us off, what have you been loving this week? what i've been loving i mean What I've been loving lately is Hacks.
00:39:22
Speaker
And i think it's um what do i love about it's two characters who ah have just an incredible almost protagonist-antagonist kind of foil dynamic built into what they're doing.
00:39:37
Speaker
And who are individually hilarious in their own way, which is kind of can be kind of cringy. But the cocktail of the the mixture of the two of them is amazing. And I also just love the fact that, you Jean Smart is somebody older who is... That that whole idea of her cultural relevance...
00:39:59
Speaker
is not even a question because she's driving a show that is just, um I always, for me, I always say that if something can make me laugh and cry, that's kind of my ultimate criteria.
00:40:15
Speaker
And I've certainly, I'm certainly skewing to the laughing part with that, but I've just been totally loving it and look and not looking forward to seeing it end. Yeah, I heard that this was their final. So I didn't realize you were watching that show and I haven't picked it up myself, but I've heard very good things.
00:40:31
Speaker
It's awesome. Ivan, what have you been loving? I love a lot of things because I think that particularly when the world around us can be difficult, it is so important for us to find ah joy And um ah I've been immersing myself in a host of different things from checking out art exhibits to um trying to do weekend getaways. ah But one thing that I'll share specifically is that I've loved watching Project Hail Mary, um the relatively new movie now, probably ah old ah for most folks. But, you know, sometimes I catch up a little bit slow on popular culture. But I loved Project Hail Mary for so many reasons, and particularly because of the alien ah Rocky. But the the reason why I love sci fi is also because
00:41:36
Speaker
ah Despite the tendency to like, know, think about, oh my God, the world is falling apart and and the world may be becoming undone.
00:41:48
Speaker
What I love is the resilience and the ability for us to come together at the hardest moments ah to find solutions to move forward. And so that's something that I've always liked about sci-fi and seeing this latest ah hit ah just reminded me about that. Like,
00:42:12
Speaker
one humanity coming together, um ah not necessarily to sing Kumbaya, but I think there's something really powerful about having and that message of unity and message of purpose um at a time when there's so much divisiveness. And so i and love those moments of like sci-fi ah bringing humanity together. And I think Project Hail Mary brings it nicely together and not just that, but also introduces elements of otherness with Rocky.
00:42:51
Speaker
and an unabashedly pro-science film, which is also nice at a time like this. I did not realize, Ivan, that you were a science fiction fan. We're going to have to talk about this afterwards. I'm a big side finder. Huge.
00:43:02
Speaker
All right. um I'll close this out. The thing I've been loving, I had the chance to travel to Pittsburgh ah recently with my wife. She had a conference there. Never been to Pittsburgh. Loved the city. While we were there, we went to a Pirates game.
00:43:16
Speaker
The Red Sox right now are terrible. The Red Sox obviously are my my baseball team. So having a chance to watch a National League team who's not really in direct competition with the Red Sox, who have no shot at the playoffs anyway, was a lot of fun.
00:43:28
Speaker
I loved rooting for them. And while we were there, we noticed that a lot of the fans were holding up traffic cones and were trying to figure out what the cones were about. I looked this up afterwards. Apparently, ah the like the clothing manufacturer inadvertently printed a shirt that said, hoist the cones, which was like maybe a spelling error, maybe just like a translation error. They're the pirates that they have like hoist the flags, hoist the colors, but they put con cones on it for some reason.
00:43:57
Speaker
And the fans just loved it and ran with it. So now the fans host, hoist the cones, And they cheered the team with traffic cones. It's so silly. um And it's just one of those joyful sort of sports traditions that you love to see.
00:44:10
Speaker
And the game we were at, they won on a walk-off home run. So what what's more can you ask for? It was supposed to be hoist the colors. I just looked it up. I don't know how you end up with cones. I don't know if that helps.
00:44:21
Speaker
So ah Yvonne, thank you again for joining us and thank you for your insight and your resilience and your partnership. And it was great to have this opportunity to share more of the good work that you're doing with our listeners.
Closing Thoughts and Future Engagement
00:44:40
Speaker
And we want to thank everyone for tuning in and you can learn more about LCR if you look at the notes in the episode.
00:44:50
Speaker
And this has been Well Put, a libretto podcast. I'm Neil Cain. And I'm Adrian Pio. If you want to learn more about libretto and what we do, you can check us out at libretto-inc.com.
00:45:05
Speaker
Well put.
00:45:09
Speaker
Do we get it, Tiffany?