Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Well Put, podcast about communications for mission-driven organizations from Libretto. My name is Adrian Pio. I'm a VP of messaging here at Libretto, and I'm joined today by my colleague, Ian Sutherland.
Speaker: Hello, Adrian. I am Ian. I'm a senior creative lead at Libretto. And today going to be talking about a really interesting and intriguing topic. It's about the qualities of effective fundraising appeals. That's print appeals, digital appeals in support of things like annual giving. And I'm excited to chat about this because Adrian and I have had a fair amount of experience in our time at Libretto.
Speaker: working with clients on what makes an effective appeal, what is going to inspire a donor to give from all levels. So um to start us off, before we get into some of our ideas about what makes a great fundraising appeal, we want to first talk about the why. Why is it still important to develop these appeals for a donor audience? Adrian, do you have thoughts on this?
Speaker: Yeah, I think that's ah an interesting point to consider, especially these days when so much communication is happening via email. you know What is the role of the printed letter, of the postcard, of the end of your mailer?
Speaker: um How do you deploy those? How often should you deploy those? I think what we've been seeing is that there is still very much a place for that type of communication, particularly a lot of the folks that you're reaching if you're ah a well-established institution who have been annual donors for many years.
Speaker: folks who tend to be getting up in age, who often appreciate something that is a more physical, sometimes even hand-signed letter that comes to them and says, hey, there's a real person on the other end of this.
Speaker: And what we've also seen is that you can absolutely wrap these up as part of a broader digital and media strategy to make sure that you have the print version, you have the email follow-up version, you have the shorter um sort of postcard version that alerts somebody that a message is coming.
Speaker: So making it all feel like it's part of this unified package, I think, can be really effective also. um But across the board, I think that sometimes people are like, well, it's at a cost and you know and there's certainly an environmental consideration.
Speaker: is it still worth doing? And what we've been seeing is that yes, ah the print appeal still has a place in our fundraising market. Yeah, there's real level of personalization that comes with a print piece, particularly one with the signatory. And as you mentioned, Adrian, an overarching theme that is part of a full suite of later messages that a donor may receive.
Speaker: Maybe a good place to go from there is how you can use a fundraising appeal and develop a fundraising appeal to celebrate the unique aspects of your organization. an appeal is really an opportunity, one, of course, to solicit donations, but two, to also do some branding and some external comms about exciting things that are happening at an organization and how a donor can support some of those exciting initiatives.
Speaker: Adrian, do you see that come into play with the recent appeals that you've done for clients? Yeah, Ian, I think that's exactly right, that these appeal letters obviously are an opportunity to try to raise some support for your organization, but they're also a great way to reconnect with folks, in particular people who may already have that intrinsic connection.
Speaker: positive association with you, whether they're alumni of a university or if they're past donors or volunteers or supporters of a nonprofit organization, just an opportunity to sort of remind them what you're doing that's special and unique and that they already love about you.
Speaker: um So using these as both brand and um and sort of cultivation ah touch points. um And you mentioned you, will sorry, go ahead.
Speaker: No, absolutely. i think that was that just to pick up on that thread, that opportunity to burnish initiatives and programming. For me, it speaks to the second rule of appeal writing, which is use the present moment.
Speaker: And a client that i am working with currently, it's an appeal that's actually about to be published by ah the president of the Institute. The signatory will be the president. And she will be speaking directly to, it's a creative institution. It's an ACAT school, art and design school.
Speaker: And as the fall appeal to all donors, she was she's going to be speaking to a new scholarship program where you can donate to your specific school of choice.
Speaker: And it's being connected to this broader idea, which I think a lot of creatives are thinking about New York City, which is New York City's affordability crisis. And this client is positioning these scholarships as a direct response to that by making a creative education affordable.
Speaker: we can ensure that those artists and practitioners go on to thrive in this challenging but and immensely rewarding creative ecosystem that is New York City. And that we all have a part to play and making sure that artists can thrive, whether that's in New York City or other cities that are also experiencing a similar level of you know an affordability crisis. And we felt, and the client felt, this was a great opportunity to speak to something broader than just a typical you know annual appeal, target specific initiatives at the organization, and also perhaps uplift some goodwill and some donations and some engagement by tapping into the present moment.
Speaker: Yeah, I think that's a great point. um Because these are really snapshot interactions, they happen a few times over the course of the year. So they don't have to tell an annual story even.
Speaker: They don't have to tell necessarily four-month story. They can be reacting to something that's happening right now in the moment. It's a great way to remind folks of your institution of the value that you provide sort of actively within the community as you describe within that New York City environment.
Speaker: I think that's incredibly powerful. um You also alluded to the idea of the signatory, which I think is something that we think a lot about. Who do we want to have our letters coming from?
Speaker: um That allows us to tie in a little bit to that more human connection side of things. So when we think about, on the one hand, you want to provide specific quantitative outcomes that a donor can help to support.
Speaker: But on the other hand, you want to tap into that more emotional personal sort of human connection that we have to an organization or to a mission. And the signatory can be a really good way of doing that, whether that's, as you mentioned, the president or whether that's a scholarship recipient, um somebody who feels like they are more directly tied to providing the work or benefiting from the work, um allowing us to provide those different angles, different perspectives on the impact that a donor can have. I think that can be a really powerful way um so to hit both sides of that sort of emotional, rational effort.
Speaker: Absolutely true. You bring up the scholarship recipient as the signatory. I just spoke to an example where we used a president as the signatory. I will say for me, I went to Emerson College in Boston, and anytime I get an appeal, digital or in print, that's signed by a scholarship recipient, I always read it.
Speaker: If I can, I often do try and give some amount. i think it's so powerful when you can tell the story in their own words of someone who had benefited from scholarship or financial aid or what have you. um I often find when I think about the third rule of appeal writing, you know, it's something that needs to work on rational and emotional levers. A great way to hit those emotional levers is to have the human touch signatory of someone like a scholarship recipient and When it it comes to pulling on those rational levers, what are some compelling arguments you see, Adrian, to get the, um you know, whether that's the statistics or whether that's showcasing some kind of hard numbers to then take the the emotional appeal to the rational appeal and really encourage engagement from a donor?
Speaker: Yeah, I think there are a few different ways to approach the rational side. Certainly you can look at specific programs or specific dollar amounts where you can say, oh, in the past year, annual fund contributions have been x percentage of financial aid, which I think that is often pretty surprising to folks, the the role that Monti think nonprofits for other fundraising organizations as well
Speaker: looking at what that current use funding really does support um i think you can also position as you were saying in a ah broader societal context um I know currently ah higher ed within the United States is seeing decreased federal investment. i know that we're seeing a lot of challenges around research funding.
Speaker: um So really showing folks here's the way that our economic bottom line is being affected by current trends. Here's the role that you all can play in helping to support us, knowing that the ask is not for individual donors to step up to replace government funding, but to think about How can we all support the positive missions of these organizations that we believe in, um given in the broader context that we're seeing? So asking folks to think a little bit more um scientifically, maybe strategically about what are the actual numbers on the balance sheet at the end of the day? And I think that that that can actually be really meaningful.
Speaker: Sometimes you say to yourself, oh, it's, you know, 100, whatever, $500. You know, how how much of a difference can that make? for an organization. But when you do imagine the number of folks who are engaged, it really does add up and it can be quite significant and and reminding people that even if they're, they feel like they're playing a small part, they are playing an important part of that broader effort.
Speaker: It's one of those things that I think really make appeal writing in art and that the inspiration and motivation to when you give, you're part of a collective giving effort. That $25 you give or that $100 you give
Speaker: is more than just a drop in the bucket because through your giving, through your generosity, you have a community that's also rising up alongside you and making not just one gift, but a transformative series of gifts that can can really make ah a big impact. I like to include that illusion to collective giving in all of my call to actions, which is the kind of fourth rule we follow for annual giving writing. You always want to have an explicit call to action at the end of every appeal.
Speaker: And i find for me personally that knowing there is an appeal a a motivation for collective giving that helps inspire me to give because it makes me feel like my gift will have more than just the the donation i'm able to i'm able to make absolutely and i the point of you know an appeal letter obviously is to raise the money and i i think sometimes we get in our heads a little bit about making the ask and certainly
Speaker: Depending on who the signatory is, folks can be more or less comfortable with how explicit they are. But I always encourage people, like don't play coy. Your donor knows that they're being asked for money. um i think being upfront and honest and straightforward about it is really important.
Speaker: Telling them, hey, we are counting on you. We need you. Here's what your money can do. Please support. As opposed to... you know, beating around the bush a little bit and, and watering down the impact, especially nowadays when we know how little people read and how much people have to read.
Speaker: When you think about the amount of mail that people get, but also the amount of email that people get just being really to the point, I think is pretty critical. Put your ask in the email subject line, put your ask in the headline, put your ask in the first sentence, make sure that it's there.
Speaker: um It's not going to scare people away. If anything, you're going to save yourself some trouble of them getting annoyed, trying to read a story and then realizing at the end that it's an ask.
Speaker: Yeah, it's not too far, I suppose, from the Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross, always be closing. Maybe it's the ABA, always be asking. I think it's very important to embed in ask almost in every sentence um of of an appeal.
Speaker: Totally agreed. Another important piece of appeals with the ask is knowing what you're asking of each audience that you're reaching out to. And that brings us to the fifth. rule of appeal writing, which is knowing your segmentation and knowing your data. How do you segment for each of your audiences? So for example, if you're a college and you're developing appeals, you have alumni, you have the families of current students, you have in some cases current students that you're trying to engage, and then you have partnerships and other community members.
Speaker: Adrian, a question that I have for you in your experience, and you've done a lot of appeal work at Libretto, how do you approach those segmentations? Statements can be really challenging. Data can be really challenging because I think everybody is told that they should have a lot of both. You should have a ton of data. You should have a ton of segmentation.
Speaker: You should be doing all this personalization. It can be really taxing on staff members to know where to make those cuts with the right um level of detail to get into is. I think that we try to approach it from a little bit more of an outcomes orientation.
Speaker: If you have ah a disaffected audience of graduate alumni who you know have capacity, that might be a great group to so to try to target and say, okay, we're gonna reach out to this graduate community because we feel like there's some untapped potential here.
Speaker: We can leverage that and we'd like to grow it. And if you do that for two years and you find that you're not getting any return, I think that's where it's a time to take a step back and say, okay, Is this actually an effective strategy?
Speaker: Are we just not communicating them with them in the right way? Or should we be wrapping that back into our larger donor pool who's getting a more general appeal because trying to reach out to them in a ah strategic targeted way is actually just sort of wasting our time and wasting our efforts.
Speaker: So I think you do need to to sort of stay on top of that data in order to check back in and see how you're doing. I do generally encourage clients when we start with them to list out who they think their segments might be.
Speaker: And for the most part, and savvy fundraising operations, they're already doing that work. They already have those folks that identified, but it's always good to look at who those audiences are ahead of time.
Speaker: you know, second guess your assumption and say, okay, we, we have been sending out ah graduates of the last 10 decades appeal for the last five years. Has that actually been making us any money? Has that shown any return?
Speaker: What is the difference in the way that we're communicating them versus the way we're communicating with our our general donor audience? And is it worth the effort to be making that difference? And i hope I hope a lot of the time the answer will be yes, it is worth doing that.
Speaker: But I think that you should take a ah close look at it in any event. Absolutely. Well, that brings us to our sixth and final item of discussion for appeal writing. And that's you talk about data.
Speaker: Where does AI come into play in all of this? And I think this is a really fascinating thing to talk about right now. I was just on a call with a client two or three weeks ago where she was talking about using agentic AI, an AI agent, um not to solicit donors, but to be assigned to donors after they've made a gift whenever they're on the giving page um as a tool of interaction.
Speaker: It's a pilot program. it could be helpful. It could not be. um What we're finding, though, is in the appeals themselves and the solicitations themselves, And I think you spoke to this idea earlier, Adrian, if folks feel there is an impersonal quality to a solicitation or if they feel a machine like voice, it can be difficult to motivate that person to open up their checkbook.
Speaker: And we feel that the more human-centered and um the more on message an appeal is, the better the success rate will be. And that also speaks to having an overarching theme across the year that can be spoken to and having solid messaging in place um so that if and when a client, if they decide to go with some sort of agentic piece, a digital stewardship,
Speaker: there's infrastructure in place. And I'm i'm i'm just curious for you, um when it comes to AI, how do you see that coming into play, if if at all, in in terms of the actual appeal and solicitation itself?
Speaker: Yeah, I couldn't agree with that assessment more. And it's so challenging to speculate about AI. It i was funny, i was looking back couple months ago at a blog post I'd written for Libretto about artificial intelligence writing. And this was a decade ago, I think in 2017, maybe 2016.
Speaker: um And I was talking about you know and artificial creativity. And I still don't think that they've quite past the Rubicon as far as creativity, but the examples of writing that I cited in that blog post were so wildly childish compared to the today's AI writing. it's It's amazing to see how far it's gone. So it's hard to make too many speculations about the role of AI in the next couple of years even, but I will say the current state of the art right now, i couldn't agree with you more,
Speaker: A I may have a role in evaluating your, your databases. If you have a proprietary system and you're not giving away donor information, obviously, AI may have a role in modifying email subject lines. if you're doing like AI, AB testing, I should say.
Speaker: Um, I think that people are starting to read a lot of AI writing. everywhere on the internet, not to be too critical of other journals or organizations, other folks who are using those tools.
Speaker: But I think people are starting to recognize when they're reading something that wasn't written by a person. And the number one rule of fundraising, as I understand it, is know people do not give to organizations, people give to people.
Speaker: um People build connection. People care about what other people are doing. um Nobody is interested in a building because, well, somebody is, but very, very few people are interested in a building because they are really in love with concrete.
Speaker: They're interested in a building because they care about the people who are going to work there. They care about the discoveries that are going to be made there. They care about the innovations that are going to help people that will come out of that building.
Speaker: um So it's it's always about that. personal human connection. I think the extent to which we see letters as outreach from an institution to an individual, it's really outreach from individuals at an institution to individuals who care about an institution. i think it does need to be about people and having a human write your letter is the way to do that.
Speaker: Well put.
Speaker: Hey, that's fun one.
Speaker: We've been talking a lot in the abstract about what we see as effective qualities of all appeals, but let's talk a little bit about some examples of appeals that either we've worked on or we've seen out in the world that we think are doing a good job. What what do you got, Ian?
Speaker: I'll start with one that i I did work on and that I was very moved by. It was a, as we were talking about signatories earlier, it was a scholarship recipi scholarship recipient who served as the signatory in celebration of this organization's Giving Day. And I'm not going to share the recipient's name, but I will share that the client was Pratt Institute, who was a client of ours in Brooklyn.
Speaker: And this young man who agreed to be the signatory for this letter ah was very excited about being involved. And we had an interview ah with this young man, very talented artist. And he told us his story, which was quite ah multifaceted.
Speaker: Part of the appeal was meant to draw attention to ah the present moment, as we're speaking about earlier, and specific programming. Pratt has an or a ah initiative called the Pratt Young Scholars Program, where they work with high school students, typically from Brooklyn Public Schools and other New York City public schools, ah to enroll in ah classes and electives.
Speaker: And some of those folks, not all, but some of them then go on to enroll as undergraduates after graduating high school. And this young man ah who was from Brooklyn showed a lot of promise as a teenager and young adult with painting. And it was very creative and skilled at drawing um and his mother recognized that and a teacher at his public high school recognized that and encouraged him to apply to be a Pratt Young Scholar, which he was accepted to.
Speaker: And through that experience, he decided to apply to the undergraduate program at Pratt to major in drawing and was accepted with a presidential merit-based scholarship, which is one of their best scholarships that the that the school offers.
Speaker: And in his sophomore or junior year, he ended up as a work study um working with the Center for Art Design and Community Engagement, K-12, which is another initiative that Pratt um is running and is actually trying to draw a lot of attention to, um to partner with other local Brooklyn schools and organizations. And as part of that work study, he actually became a mentor to a young scholar, a I think like a junior or senior in high school, who then eventually a year later,
Speaker: applied to Pratt's undergraduate program and also received a presidential merit-based scholarship. So it's just this beautiful full circle story um in support of Pratt's Giving Day. So we we shared that story. it was a printed letter. And then we actually did an email version of it as well to the Pratt community. And the headline was, This Giving Day, Open New Doors.
Speaker: And we saw a really positive response from the alumni community, but also from you know parents of current students, even you know parents of current students who may not even rely on scholarships. They were very... ah move the story really resonated with a lot of people. And it also resonated with a lot of Pratt's partners who are investing in these early education opportunities ah for you know public schools in the area um and you know through other, you know a lot of the museums and such ah have other young artists programming.
Speaker: um So that was... a really you know That was very much an emotional lever. I know we had spoken as an item of discussion about pulling the emotional lever, ah but there was a right brain and a left brain piece as well. because Speaking to these specific targeted initiatives and showing not only do these really work and lead to these outcomes, but here's somebody talking about it in their own words. Isn't this something that is worthy to invest in? so it it It was People were giving not just because of their connection to Pratt, but because maybe their connection to New York Public Schools or their connection to New York City was a really big tent moment for their giving day. So that was just the example I wanted to share. What about you, Adrian? Do you do any recent examples or or maybe not so recent examples come to mind?
Speaker: That's a a beautiful story. And I think yeah that perfectly encapsulates what we were taught, as you mentioned, the the sort of emotional side of the picture. Like that really pulls in the heartstrings. I love that as an example. Maybe I'll just talk quickly about some more of that rational side and maybe it's more of the institutional side, um some of the examples that we've worked on. So we've done annual giving for mit for many years.
Speaker: And throughout that process, we've always focused on what is the role that a donor can play and what is the role that in particular unrestricted giving can play for a large institution like MIT, which has you know a huge research enterprise and which has an endowment and which obviously makes money through tuition, cetera.
Speaker: um So in those contexts, we focused a lot on the individual donors ability to support student achievement, as you described through financial aid, um but also to support innovation and what that innovation can bring to a broader societal context. So with the role of MIT in creating new products and creating new technologies that make life better for everyone.
Speaker: um And for that, we we developed ah sort of an annual giving theme for that year that was based on the idea of make the future. At MIT, we make the future and you as a donor can help to make the future better, make the future brighter, make the future stronger, make the future more sustainable.
Speaker: um So what is the role that you can help to play in bettering things for all of us? um After that year, we actually cycled into and ni a different annual theme, which was future-focused, people-powered.
Speaker: And again, that was about the impact of the Institute on the United States and the world, but also the important role that human beings play in powering that work. So that's both the humans at MIT, but also the humans who are the donor and alumni community.
Speaker: um I also am thinking of a specific, to give a and more... exact example as you did i'm thinking of a specific appeal and that we created for their loyalty circle so these are donors who had given for a few years in a row um the the chair of their loyalty circle she was a rocket scientist and for the appeal we and this was in in the year of sort of thinking about making the future we were talking about the importance of looking beyond the current moment And in her case, sort of looking beyond the earth, what it means to dream of the stars, to shoot for the stars.
Speaker: um And I recall, I really liked the line that we we closed the piece with, with thinking about what it means to look at a rocket launch and to see all of that potential energy that's contained in the fuel that as it becomes kinetic, there's this beautiful and powerful and immense explosion of a rocket launch um when all of that potential energy comes to life. And that's what it is when you have an organization and institution like MIT, where you have all of this knowledge, all of this creativity, all of this excitement and exuberance, all this potential energy um that just needs to spark to come to life. And and what could we do as donors to to sort of see that beautiful, powerful, amazing explosion of innovation?
Speaker: So maybe appeal writing in some ways is a rocket science.
Speaker: Sorry. Only sometimes. That was really dumb. Sorry.
Speaker: So what did we learn today? Well, we went through a series of qualities of effective fundraising appeals. We talked about the importance of celebrating the unique aspects of your own organization, which may or may not involve coming up with a theme for the year.
Speaker: We talked about the importance of tying into the current moment, root your appeals in the present moment, um We talked about tapping into both rational and emotional sides of things. So making sure that you're appealing to people, um hitting their heartstrings, but also hitting their head.
Speaker: We talked about the importance of being straightforward and upfront with your calls to action. and We discussed a little bit what goes into determining the number of segments that you might want to target and how you can help to parse your data.
Speaker: And then we we speculated, perhaps fruitlessly, we'll see. We speculated about the role of AI in appeal writing. And we still think that appeal writing is very much a human thing.
Speaker: So thanks for coming with us on this journey. But before we sign off, Ian, let's talk a little bit about what we've been loving. What have you been loving lately? Yeah, my example for today, i think is somewhat connected to this discussion around appeals and ah what is worth giving to and what makes an effective appeal. I've been following for the last year, a YouTube creator, a guy named Tom Delgado,
Speaker: who is a local comedian in New York City. And it's also, I think he's a tour guide as well. a lot of his YouTube videos are longer form, 20 minute long videos of neighborhood tours and history.
Speaker: And he'll go to, of course, like the West Village or Williamsburg, very well known and well traveled ah neighborhoods within the Brooklyn and Manhattan borough, but he is also going out to like Woodside Queens or Elmhurst Queens or ah the South Bronx and giving a full picture of history and context in a very funny way because he is a comedian that maybe a lot of folks would not know about some of the outer boroughs. and for me in particular i've spent the last year recording bass with the band out in bayside queens and to get there from where i live in greenpoint brooklyn is a bit of an odyssey because i ride my bike to the woodside long island railroad stop and then take the train from there to bayside and through that process have come to fall in love with woodside queens which is actually not too far from where my girlfriend grew up in in Jamaica, Queens. And Woodside today has a very large ah Filipino population, which I was well aware of, amazing Filipino food and other Southeast Asian you know cultural heritage.
Speaker: And Tom, in his YouTube series, talks about how that came to be and also talks about what came before. um And I was fascinated to learn what I learned through his series about that at one point it was a very large Irish population and then how that, because of the Catholic roots, was very attractive to Filipino immigrants in the 1960s and 1970s and how it's this rich multicultural neighborhood today. so that's just one of several series he's done on these neighborhoods around New York City. And one thing I really enjoy about his channel is he often will plug local businesses or local causes
Speaker: whether to just get folks' attention and awareness around it, and also sometimes to maybe spend some money in support of those places and causes as well. He's totally got the authenticity of a longtime New Yorker.
Speaker: um And it's just exciting to see. I think in an era, I think where a lot of influencers almost use New York City is like a backdrop to their own personal movie. He's ah extraordinarily respectful and insightful about all of the hidden gems and riches that this city offers. And it's ah it's a plus to him that he's also, in my opinion,
Speaker: a great appeals guy. He'd be a great, he'd be a great writer of annual appeals. Cause there's a lot of, lot of places and causes I've heard about through him, um that I wouldn't have known about otherwise. And he, he makes a great pitch.
Speaker: What about you, Adrian? What have you been listening to reading, watching lately that you're really loving? Well, first of all, I need to go check him out because that sounds fascinating. You know that I am i am into history, although I often go via maps, but I i am yeah certainly i'm certainly curious about that. I don't know anything about Woodside, so that that sounds like a really cool history to learn about.
Speaker: um What am I loving lately? So earlier this year, we were actually in New York as well, just for AFP. And then I i stuck around for the weekend.
Speaker: And while we were in town, we went to a couple of shows because that's what one does when one is staying as we were in Times Square, um at just off of Broadway. i am probably not the top first, second, third, maybe even fourth pick of librettists to be talking about Broadway shows. But here I am. um We saw Hadestown when we were there in town.
Speaker: And then it just recently had a national run in movie theaters. And my wife loved the show and actually was a big fan of the album, which is why we went to the show to begin with.
Speaker: um So then she wanted to go see it again and bring a girlfriend of hers and her husband. So we went to see Hadestown again in theaters. This time, you know the filmed version with the original Broadway cast. It was a lot of fun to compare casts as somebody who doesn't go to a lot of Broadway shows. I don't often have the occasion to say which cast I thought was better than another cast. I don't usually see two shows, two of the same show.
Speaker: um But I will say that that production, it's, It's beautiful. It's heartbreaking. It's classic. It's ah a Greek myth. So it's a classic story.
Speaker: um But it's re-envisioned in a really contemporary and I think very interesting way. It's wild to think that Anais Mitchell wrote the album, I think, like in 2011 or 2012, something like that. That's about right. Yeah.
Speaker: um in you know not in pre-build the wall era but in a pre-trump era for sure um and yet the politics of the production and feel extremely of the moment um and quite cutting in fact it it felt um there's a a particular song called why we build the wall which which feels very much like it is about the current administration so certainly um it felt ah vibrant in that regard, but also the human emotional side of the story, I think is really touching as well. The cast performances in the filmed version were extremely strong and having the opportunity as you rarely do in ah a theater production to get a closeup of somebody's face, you really get an appreciation for the physical acting that they're doing. And um it helps to build that emotional connection.
Speaker: i will, I don't think spoil of it, but I will reveal that it is a sad ending and it did hit. Um, it it It hit in theaters as it did in person. I love that you chose Hadestown. have yet to see the show, though I have listened to the album. and I've been an Anais Mitchell fan since 2016.
Speaker: She did an interview with Joe Pug, who is a roots folk musician who is not necessarily well known, but has been around for a while and is certainly well revered in a lot of circles.
Speaker: And I remember listening to that interview before I was as familiar with her music where he said, why we build the wall is a link in a chain of amazing American protest music.
Speaker: And it's the call and response. it's It's the continuation of the Pete Seeger School of Songwriting. I still get chills when I listen to that song and I can't imagine what it's like to hear it and watch it in the show itself. One of these days I got to make it down to Broadway. Libretto very kindly gifted me a Broadway gift certificate. So I need to put that to use and go see Hadestown.
Speaker: I can't recommend it enough. I think you should. And for those who are listening, don't know if they will have some sort of streaming reprise or put it for sale. But if that, I can't imagine they're just going to shelve the the filmed production. So I'm sure that will show up somewhere. And it's certainly worth a watch if you're not able to get to New York.
Speaker: Well, thank you for sharing, Adrian. And thank you also for your great conversation on the six items of what make a great appeal and six items to keep in mind when writing appeals, whether you're on the client side or the consultant side. I hope this conversation has been helpful. And this has been Well Put, a libretto podcast.
Speaker: Again, I'm Ian Sutherland. And I'm Adrian Pugh. If you want to learn more about libretto and what we do, check us out at libretto-inc.com.
Speaker: Well put.
