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Slice #9: Awe and Surfing
13 Plays5 months ago
In this episode, the host sits down with Kevin Tsao, former roommate and surfer, to explore the connection between surfing and the sense of awe and wonder it fosters. They discuss the physical and mental challenges of surfing, the unique experiences in nature it offers, and how it helps dissolve the ego, engaging the mind and body fully in the present moment. Kevin shares personal surfing stories, including moments of danger, humility, and the sheer beauty of being immersed in nature, highlighting why surfing is an experience that continuously draws people back to the water.
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Transcript
Introduction to Awe and Wonder Through Surfing
00:00:22
Speaker
What's up fellow humans and welcome to a little slice of awe and wonder. I'm really stoked this week. I got to talk to one of my best friends in the world, Kevin. ah We were roommates together and we talked about how awe and wonder relate to surfing. It's a new conversation we probably had informally a thousand times, but we finally got to really record it and explore more deeply why surfing is just this experience that elicits On Wonder so regularly. So without further ado, here's Kevin.
00:01:07
Speaker
Welcome to a little slice of On Wonder. How are you doing, man? Doing good. We just had a full day. Just had a full day. of Full day. Full day yesterday. Full day today. It's been a blast having you here. Yeah, man. It's been awesome. It's been an honor. So what have you just surfed? PB point in San Diego.
00:01:24
Speaker
in the bedrock area. Yeah. Yeah. Full nostalgia. Just a little connective tissue. Kevin and I were roommates once upon a time. And he's one of my favorite humans and also an awesome surfer amongst other things. No, I'm like an oak. I'm okay at best. But i mean the crazy thing is, man, we've been surfing. like We spent a lot of time in the water. A long time. we've I feel like we put our time in.
00:01:53
Speaker
I mean, we've put in our time. I don't know if we we've gotten all the results. Yeah. I think this is such a cool episode, even without the results, you know, yeah just the time spent in the water. Yeah. I think there's a reason why so many surfers feel addicted to the water. You know, like they just have to keep coming back in. Have to. They travel the world to go yeah find places just to jump in the water over there. yeahp Yeah. yeah and Yeah, man. So today's episode is about all in wonder as it relates to surfing. So yeah, why do you think that people feel
Kevin's Surfing Journey: Challenges and Triumphs
00:02:29
Speaker
this way about surfing? How do you feel when you surf? I mean, I came across surfing, well, truthfully through you. I didn't own any boards. I don't think anybody starting ever does. You know, you always borrow or rent or do something like that. And I always, I borrowed your,
00:02:47
Speaker
I think it was like a flyer to al america yeah that thing that got stolen off of our porch. But yeah, I learned on that and that's definitely not like a ah learning board. That's like a, you know what you're doing kind of thing. And when we were living together, I was infatuated with the idea of surfing and the concept of being able to like literally stand and walk on water. Yeah.
00:03:16
Speaker
And once I had that concept in my mind of like, that's something I wanted to do. I, dude, I took your board out every day for like a month, every morning but before work, every day after work. And like kind of taught myself. There were, there was a time when we went out at Scripps.
00:03:39
Speaker
And like, I think I was the only one who didn't really know what we were doing, like how to like surf, right? Like I've seen people obviously, but I, like, I didn't know what I was doing. And not to say that you're a bad teacher, but i know this is but you were literally like, all right, I'll see you out there and just paddled out. yeah my And, and like, didn't, there was no concept of like duck diving, turtle rolling, nothing. And it was just like,
00:04:08
Speaker
Cool, and I just i was tried to follow and paddling like surfing wise also is like a whole different set of muscles that you don't use every day.
00:04:19
Speaker
and man that first time coming out of the water dude I was just sitting by I was just sitting there like I tried to make it past the break couldn't and and it was like I don't know 45 minutes of you guys were I think it was like you and Jen or you and somebody or Carly or somebody was out with you and you guys had made it past obviously and I was like stuck and I just sat on the beach for like 20 25 minutes waited till you guys got in and then we like left And I think after that incident, I was like, all right, I got to like figure out what this is. I like YouTube a bunch of videos. And this was like over 10 years ago. And I was like, I got to learn what this is and.
00:05:04
Speaker
Once I made it past the break, and I think we were in Carmel Valley, more or less, and then serving Del Mar 11th Street. And so we went every day, twice a day, and was just like, all right, I've made it past the break, but like, how do I actually surf? Like, how do I catch something? And because that first experience of learning with you was so, not traumatic, but like so serious, I was like,
00:05:31
Speaker
I was trying to inspire you. I was just like, you know what? I'll i'll figure this out out out on my own kind of thing. yeah And after a month or so, eventually I caught the first way like i caught the first push.
00:05:47
Speaker
And that feeling of like, I worked this hard to get there. I finally get the payoff of like that feeling. I'm hooked.
00:05:58
Speaker
and Like I didn't stand for like probably like another two weeks. You know what I mean? It wasn't like I caught it in like, Oh, now I could catch every wave. I mean, I, we don't catch every wave today, you know? So I think at that time I was like just hooked on that first initial feeling of like, I caught it. I worked for this. I got it. And then in that moment, there was nothing else I could think of. It was like, I'm, I'm on.
00:06:28
Speaker
Holy shit, I'm on i'm on water. I'm moving. yeah like This is happening. I didn't think about it in the sense that, like oh, I finally did it after a month. It was just like, oh, I'm i'm here. I'm present now. like I was fully aware of just being there.
00:06:46
Speaker
It forces you into it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
The Unique Allure of Surfing
00:06:50
Speaker
It's crazy. And despite, yeah, despite my horrible teaching that you became an awesome surfer from this like dedication and awesome is overstatement. Yeah. And man, it is crazy. You mentioned just our ability to be on water. Yeah. Like thinking about everything else, you know, that you ride, like riding a car or a skateboard or like a scooter or a bike, you're riding on the ground. It's like, yeah.
00:07:15
Speaker
flat it's not moving but when you're on water man it's like it's a dynamic it's a dynamic yeah it's moving it's kind of responding to you in a way like you're having to respond to it there's like this weird interaction it is like magic man yeah and there's like sure if you're like snowboarding like no two runs are the same but you're still on the same mountain the same quote unquote run you know i took this black diamond i did this blue square you know like whatever it is that's a that's your run and that's gonna be there that's gonna be there no two waves are ever the same no matter where you are you can go to that same break day in day out and you're like
00:07:56
Speaker
you'll really hone in on like how the tides work, how the winds work, what time of day is the best, swell, storm from directions. Like all of these things all factor in yeah to how your experience is going to be. But even if you were even controlling all of those things, because it is, like you said, it's water, it's not the same. It's really not the same. Like literally,
00:08:22
Speaker
It could just, it could start crumbling in front of you or it could stay an open face and all conditions aside were the same. Yeah. One set coming in 10 minutes, like coming in now or 10 minutes from now. It's not like it changed that much. Yeah. But it.
00:08:41
Speaker
It's not the same way. And I think that makes surfing really exciting too because there's always the element of nature and you're really in a situation that's always changing. Yeah. So you have to be, you're always almost like reading the waves. That's another thing that people don't think about when you're surfing. A lot of it is a subtle pattern recognition and you're in nature in this really special way where you're really subtly trying to figure out the patterns that are happening in nature.
00:09:08
Speaker
and the insight that you get from surfing over a long period of time they're like really subtle but it's obvious like when you surf with a beginner they don't know where and when and which wave to take and where to take off from they're like they don't know which one's going to break right or left and they can't see that pattern but as you put more time in those things become really obvious and i think it's from this really rich interaction that you have in the water like you're actually in nature in a different way you're like fully engaged That's a good way to put it, you're fully engaged. And in a sense, like you said, you you see signs of when even like a set is coming in. You know to start, oh shit, I gotta like get moving. Even though like it's maybe 10 seconds, 15 seconds out. If you stayed in that position without moving, you're either in white water or you're getting like smacked, you know? But if you know where to go,
00:10:05
Speaker
you can paddle out maybe five seconds in advance sit where you need to sit and that could be like a wave of a lifetime or at the very least of the session you know wave of the day yeah and that first if you're talking about that first wave that got you hooked yeah fuel the power and you just can't really think of anything else. That's one thing I wanted to pick up on from our research is that takes you out of your egoic self like your thoughts about yourself or like the thinking into the past and the future like sort of the they call this the default mode network a lot of these functions that your brain patterns when you're either thinking about the past or the future trying to plan or like you're thinking about
00:10:49
Speaker
Something that happened to you when you're 10 or whatever and you're not in the moment that Falls away when you're struck by something or you're totally engaged in something like and so I feel like That is a huge reason why surfing is so addictive. Yeah, it maybe taps into this This dissolving of your ego because you really can't think about it It's so interesting because I was thinking about this the other day. You're in the water for so long I was like to talking to myself I was like I'm in the water for like potentially three, four hours of it at a time. I'm not like, I'm not like solving any problems out there at best. I'll kind of plan out the rest of my day or like, Oh, I really got it.
00:11:33
Speaker
I could really got to like do something around the house or or clean or you know like more task things but I'm not solving major things because I'm still out there watching every set that comes through. I'm taking notes on like where I'm sitting but not like actively but it's still like a ah thought that crosses my mind versus like It's not like, you would think that in three to two two hours even, in the water, like today, you would think that like, oh yeah, like, what did you think about today? Nothing. I was just thinking about like, oh, that set's pretty big. I should like start paddling. Or like, oh, that dude rips. Like, yeah if he's going for a wave, I should like lay off. yeah you know Things like that. yeah like i'm not I'm not actually thinking about anything other than this session.
00:12:27
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that's, like you said, I think that's like ah the beauty of surfing is like beyond when you're actually just on the wave riding it, which of course you're like, really you that's all you see. Even the act of being in the water, you're still surfing in a sense that you're like, all right, I'm like learning where to be or like,
00:12:51
Speaker
Oh, wind picked up. like Maybe maybe like I'll call it in 15 minutes because it's not dying down. yeah you know yeah It's really bringing us back to there's this concept of biophilia. where like you know we're we're supposed We're meant to be around natural environments that are in them.
00:13:07
Speaker
and engaging with them, like you're saying, like fully engage in natural environments. It's like healthy for us for all these different reasons. And so that's why, you know, people say you should, they have the forest bathing idea in Japan and stuff like that. You know, you want to be in nature and people that spend more time in nature, number one, a lot of these health parameters, like immune parameters, things like that increase. And then also they feel more on wonder, which is interesting. Like when they did a study with people who were asked to like,
00:13:36
Speaker
think about, they go on these little aw walks in nature and they did experience more aw and wonder in their life. And I wonder if like, yeah. Aw walks sounds like ewoks.
Memorable Surfing Experiences
00:13:50
Speaker
Sorry. Ewoks are rad. but yeah dude like this you can think of an awe surfing sesh like yeah the first i remember doing this weird activity it was like some cbt yeah like cognitive behavioral therapy thing it's sort of like in happy gilmore where he has his happy place you're like think of some time where you're like totally blown away by something and use that as a way to jump out of a negative thinking frame. And so mine was one of my first waves, like being on it, like that experience is so, it's still so vivid in my head yeah that I could go back there almost. Yeah. There's, there's for sure sessions and, and maybe not in complete sessions, but there's like certain rides that you've caught. Or at least for me, like I remember there was once I was a, I was at diamond head in Oahu and I thought I was good.
00:14:45
Speaker
you know like like a lot of You know, a lot of people are just starting. And like i I couldn't figure out how to do a turn off the top. And it clicked there. And i remember I remember the board I was riding. I remember roughly where I was in the water. I remember like how it ended. And like a kook, I claimed it. ah you know I was like um like so stoked. After I turned off the top, it was like breaking. And I was like, why?
00:15:14
Speaker
And then, and then I just came in afterwards. I was like riding such a high for probably the rest of the trip. Yeah. I didn't get a single other turning out of however many sessions after on that trip, but I was so. So in that moment that like you said, I can def I can transform myself back there now. And like, I wasn't with anybody. I was just by myself in the water. And like, I did that. Like, I know that feeling, you know, and and that.
00:15:42
Speaker
that feeling was out of this world and it was ah like out of body almost like it happened and immediately I was like oh whoa I mean countless other rides also like maybe not as as like progressive in in the sense of like I got better at surfing but even certain things like oh I surfed with dolphins randomly or Or like it was just really beautiful outside. It was like a sunset, like a glass off sesh. And it was just like, wow, I can't believe I'm here yeah doing this right now.
00:16:21
Speaker
And it looks like this, you know? Even in Glass Off in the sunset, yeah there's like been some sessions where it's just yeah absolutely... and and In that sense, like you don't have to catch a wave. You don't have to have learned anything or improved any aspect of your your surfing skill set, I guess.
00:16:41
Speaker
but being able to be there felt like a privilege and yeah it just felt like I'm so fortunate and lucky to be here and of course like sunsets in Hawaii are like postcards are made of it it you know but very rarely do people get to see it from I mean in the water in Hawaii of course there's a ton of people but you know what I mean like you take a mental snapshot of that from the water in the water it's a different experience than just like oh yeah I'm sitting at the hotel I don't know patio or something or like I'm sitting on the beach and watching the sunset as cliche as it is like cool done but like
00:17:25
Speaker
I don't know how many of those sunsets I remember, but I i remember a lot of like surf sesh type of sunsets. Have you ever surfed in a thunderstorm? I don't think so. Or in like heavy rain.
00:17:42
Speaker
Yeah, those are some of my frames rain for sure like when it starts raining It's cool cuz it's like you can't get more wet. you know Yeah The reason I thought of that is that I was just looking at this book that you have on on your shelf I'm looking at this book that Kev has called the the dictionary of this obscure sorrows It's like a bunch of words that this guy is has created to like describe different feelings and this one's like um crystallism like the the amniotic tranquility of being stuck inside during a thunderstorm but i i feel like i that you're almost even more in it there's a crystallism when you're surfing in a thunderstorm and like it feels so peaceful that you're yeah you're in this like weird
00:18:32
Speaker
There's no sense of panic. There's no sense of I can't be outside or I have, I'm like stuck. It's almost more liberating to be surfing during a rainstorm. Cause it's like, I'm, I'm wet. I'm like, I'm outside. Like this, nothing nothing's changing here. You know, like I'm already doing what I'm doing and this doesn't affect me at all. Zero, you know, like maybe.
00:19:00
Speaker
Maybe when you're paddling and if there's wind, you know, maybe your vision gets kind of obscured a little, but like, that's it. And that happens with wind. It doesn't even need to be rain. Yeah. I always thought rain was awesome. Like when I was a kid, yeah being indoors in the rain, it's just like, wow, this feels like so calming. Sleeping. Sleeping. Yeah. The sound. Sleeping through rain. It's like,
00:19:23
Speaker
It's like a healing sleep. yeah what is are You sleep deeper and it feels more like you actually got rest. Yeah, yeah absolutely. I wonder where that's from like genetically through evolution.
00:19:40
Speaker
yeah how Why did that feeling Well, it's like clear that certain sounds signal certain things to our, you know, in our body, even this is certain hormones when we hear certain sounds like, you know, our parents voice when we're a baby, for example, like when you hear a caring mother's voice, you're forced into a particular type of feeling, you know, I feel like there's some deep reason why we are so drawn to sound of water.
00:20:07
Speaker
because it's just universally calming for people yeah very calming it's like act like when we visited you guys it's so peaceful to have a flowing river type sound in the background yeah because it's like it's it's like white noise or brown noise or whatever it is it's like it's It's just in the background and it takes a certain level of anxiety away from your thoughts. I think um it serves as ah as a distraction almost for the anxiety for your
00:20:40
Speaker
The part of your brain that like focuses and latches on to like worries. It's almost like, you know, when you're doing a puzzle and it's just enough thought that you're not worried about anything else. Like it just kicks up all the worries out of your head. Again, puzzles. Like you can get really fully engaged and lost in doing puzzles.
Respecting the Ocean's Power: Danger and Awe
00:21:00
Speaker
Yeah. Shout out to the puzzles, man. Puzzles disturbing. I didn't realize the overlap.
00:21:05
Speaker
Yeah, they it the full engagement is very interesting. Yeah, for that's like that's a good word, man. I feel like a lot of it is about full engagement.
00:21:17
Speaker
And one thing that, you know, makes you, it just forces you into full engagement is really that the power. When you're in the ocean, there's, you know, there's the calming aspect of water that we're just talking about, but there's also the power, like scary aspect. Sometimes you're out there and that's another aspect of awe too. Awe originally came from a sort of feeling of terror.
00:21:39
Speaker
and you feel that in the ocean too when you're out when you're there's a storm or like you know you paddle out and you're like shit it's like i'm not ready for this yeah uh these like giant mountains yeah sometimes sometimes no i totally agree like do you have a this like a memory of being out when it was too big Yeah, man. I would say I feel like when you're not fully engaged is when you get hurt, when you don't, when you, like when the session, when it doesn't go as expected. You know, like when you're a little careless almost, you know, it's like you didn't respect the fact that the ocean doesn't care about you. The ocean does not care. It will not skip a beat. Yeah.
00:22:28
Speaker
and like you think you're good at at surfing well cool yeah nice i don't care i'll still hold you down i'll still pin you down to the bottom of the ocean for an extra couple seconds make you freak out and then we'll come up a little bit more humble you know yeah you asked are there any memorable ones yeah for sure the thought of drowning has for sure crossed my mind at least, I don't know, five to ten times. Yeah, it's about the same for me. Yeah, like the first time I thought I was good enough for for blacks. Blacks was a huge one. I like I yeah, I like.
00:23:10
Speaker
Hey, I didn't, I was good at writing rights and blacks is a left, you know, I didn't know what I was doing, but I thought I was good at rights. So that made me okay at less is my, like, was the thought process, I guess. And you get tossed and you get kind of help for when it gets big. I mean, even when it's small, but especially when it's big. And I remember I went out with one of our buddies, Barsky,
00:23:39
Speaker
And I took a left and it was heavy. It was, I mean, at the time pretty heavy. It was like, I don't know, five, six, and his barrel's at like three feet, you know, four feet. And I get tossed, I get held under, and that was the probably the first time I get held under. And thought wash the thought process, it's so interesting because it's like when I'm calmly lying there on like the couch and i try to do i practice like breath holds for however long i'll be like okay ready time you know like i'll hold my breath like i've gone up to like two minutes but but when you're underwater and being tossed and you don't know which way is up and you've also just paddled like for your life and and like yeah you're underwater for like an extra
00:24:30
Speaker
three seconds, five seconds. The amount of the number of thoughts that go through your mind in those five seconds is light speed. It's almost like you're going to die kind of thing. And like it triggers something in your mind where I like that first time I get pinned under, I thought like, all right, I'm going to die. I'm going to drown. Who's going to find me? How are they going to find me?
00:24:54
Speaker
They're going to find like a board floating connected to a dude in a wetsuit floating. They don't know who I am. Cause it's not like you carry your ID into the water. I was with Barsky, but he's out there in the water. I was like, they're not going to know who I am. I didn't drive. So it's not like I have ah my car there. They're not going to be able to know who I am to ID and let family and relatives know that like,
00:25:20
Speaker
Hey, your son has died. you know like this All of this like flashes in five seconds, but I i pop up and immediately like I get back on shore, thankfully, and I'm like crying out of just raw emotional, like I almost died kind of thing.
00:25:40
Speaker
And I sat there i sat there for like another 45 minutes and I watched 8-year-old, 10-year-old kids get barreled. And I'm like, well, cool. I can't do that, clearly. you know Well, man, you know, the one aspect of On Wonder, too, is this ah humility, like you're talking about getting humbled, like the sense that you're small and that, you know, there's this huge, you're just one speck. You're just a piece of dust, you know, in in a good way, though, and in a way that's both scary. But on the outside of that, you know, you have both sides. You you get to be part of this like yeah incredible experience. Yeah, it kind of like keeps you honest. Keeps you honest.
00:26:24
Speaker
And if you're not fully engaged, it's like when there was that time then that we were at like El Porto when I cut my head open. I see a story too. that was There's been some, actually, yeah, thinking back, yeah there's been some incidents. That was for sure. Dude, it was a nothing day. It was like one to two feet. It was a little big and that was like maybe two to three, sure but it was breaking on shore. Yeah.
00:26:47
Speaker
and it's like cool today's a whatever day like we're just gonna paddle out and like just to get wet cool that's fun and then you come up and your head's just like pouring blood like spouting blood and you're like am I okay like I'm touching my head and I'm like I've never felt my head feel like this before and I and when I'm touching it obviously you're wet right and I don't see really like red on my hand so I'm like I don't know what this is. I even paddled back out. And then I was like, dude, I don't know what happened. And you're like, oh, we got to go. We got to head out kind of thing. And I was like, is it that bad? Like, what's going on? You're just like, yeah, yeah, it's pretty bad. We should we should go. And I feel like I knew it was bad-ish. even like Even then, I was like still kind of not believing it. But I feel like I knew it was a kind of serious when you got on board on shore.
00:27:47
Speaker
You got on shore and you ripped your leash off and started booking it. They're just running to like north the like towards ah like a Tacoma that's like the lifeguard cars.
00:28:00
Speaker
and and you like stumbled you know like in movies and shit you're like you're running you're like and you like fell and you're like still scrambling on all fours to get up and still keep going and I was like oh man real he's like panicking a little well I was like trying to keep it cool like when I was talking because your head was like cut open like and i got okay and And luckily, it when we got when you got to the lifeguards, they're like, okay, this looks really bad, but it looks worse than it is. Yeah, they were like, I don't know if i don't know if that's true. they They said that, and they were like, oh yeah, when salt water hits wounds, it makes it look worse than it is. And I was like, see, you know, it's not that bad. yeah I even like kind of fought the idea of going to urgent care. I was like, i don't need it, it's fine. I FaceTimed Christina, and I was like,
00:28:50
Speaker
See, they like bandaged up my head, do you think I like really need to go? like yeah We're fine.
00:28:58
Speaker
And what was it, like 12 stitches later? Well man, that humility. Yeah, dude. Fully engaged, you gotta stay vigilant. Yeah, it really does require all your attention.
The Importance of Full Engagement in Activities
00:29:15
Speaker
yeah Otherwise, you you a won't get the waves that you want. You won't be able to like get that experience. You won't be able to do the turns. do Whatever it is. yeah you know like you won't be able to You won't be sitting in the right position. you yeah One thing I wondered is like if there isn't a sense of danger or you know when you're in the natural world, you are. Your subject to anything you know there's so much that you can't control you have to like let go of control and like in all states you do that you like use let go of control and i i kind of wonder if you can really feel that true awe experience when you're in somewhere maybe you're like watching uh watching something on a phone you know where it's so removed from any
00:30:01
Speaker
Danger, you know, you just see a little clip of a video and maybe you feel some oh that was cool But I think that that that probably pales in comparison to when you were in a certain amount of actual danger Yeah, cuz that cuz you're it grounds you yeah grounds you and you have to be fully engaged yeah at that point speaking of danger and it's sort of like when not to like not to scare I don't think but like when we we have like a a surf trip coming up next year. There's, there's, um, there's breaks where it's like, you know, you're, you're on water. Yeah. But there's also only like less than a foot of water there. And below that is reef that is sharper than glass and it will cut you up. No problem. And like, don't eat it, you know?
00:30:57
Speaker
and And sometimes you can't control that, but sometimes like if like if you're not fully engaged, the risk is definitely higher. you know Yeah, we just saw someone out today who almost airdropped into some... in yeah Yeah, and he was like, i I should have committed. I would have been fine, I think. And I was like, dude, I would never have taken off you're you're a wild man
00:31:22
Speaker
Yeah, I think everyone should have something that is scary, at least and in their and their life. Just a little bit, you know. There's like a sense of, not that like you should put yourself in danger all the time and be stupid, but that like there's something that is, makes you be fully careful. Yeah. Cause I think that opens you up to the most off-field experiences, honestly. Yeah. I don't think you should be like moving through all of life, like on autopilot.
00:31:51
Speaker
You know, I feel like people are in increasingly in our time and I don't want to be too pessimistic about younger generations, but I feel that there's this big migration towards being more lonely, cut off, and migrating to like digital environments mostly. Like you're where you're on most of the day is spent in a digital world where like you kind of control it in a way so so like you don't have it's like inflating this sense of ego in a way um you're cut off from natural patterns you you're cut off from that humility and the um and the wildness and the end just being fully immersed in something right yeah like the number of screens that we put in front of our face we'll like we we were talking about this today like or yesterday we're like
00:32:42
Speaker
Yeah, we can watch movies, but you know, like sometimes I can't really like get into it and I'll just like be on my phone. Yeah. You know, check something else or like something else is more important and I'll be doing that. I'll leave the TV on while I'm working or while I'm cleaning or...
00:32:57
Speaker
Like I'm not engaged in that thing at all. Yeah. It makes it less valuable when it's something that you could flip past so easily. yeah And when you can control the pixels on the screen, it suggests that you can control the world, right? And that makes you less engaged. and and And there's no danger to it. Like whether or not I paid attention to this or not.
00:33:19
Speaker
If I'm in a digital world, like who cares? The worst-case scenario is... I don't even know what the worst-case scenario scenario is. like i what I lose my account, or somebody hacks it, or I accidentally... I don't i don't know. like What's the worst case... I guess if it if we're thinking like, financially... Yeah, exactly. yeah like Identity theft. like ah If we're gonna go dark. like predatory stuff. I guess it'd get bad. but Yeah, never mind. It could definitely go bad. But that's not like that's not um at the forefront of your thoughts while you're in that mode. right right' like It's a separate level of danger that's not like... Yeah. ah It's like a hidden one. yeah Yeah. Whereas like when you're surfing above six inches of water, like I'm not going to eat this because if I do, well, um I could get hurt or worse, you know? I mean, yeah, even in sports or like rock climbing or even tennis or yeah basketball, there's ah definitely a risk of injury when you're with other people, you're moving your body in these different ways. And and at least, you know, like other people are essentially unpredictable, you know?
00:34:29
Speaker
like Things are out of your control. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah man. I wonder if that is part of it. Like no danger, no mystery. Yeah. Whoa. No danger, no mystery. Yeah.
00:34:47
Speaker
Well, that's that's a reason for everybody to try serving. At least I know it's not for everybody, but this is my big PSA. No, don't. Don't try serving. Get out of here. There's already too many people in the water. Stop. That's true. it's It is. Think about it. We got to go around the world so that we don't have to paddle battle with people.
00:35:11
Speaker
Yeah. I don't feel very, like, loveless in the... No. I realize the more that you're out there, the better that you get. You are, you get, you can't. You know when people are... Yeah. And you can, like, work your way around them. You can work your way around them. Yeah. But the ideal situation is there's not that many people. Yeah. True. So I'm not... Not to be, like, not to be gatekeeping.
00:35:33
Speaker
But like yeah, go ahead, try serving. The first few months that you serve, it's not... It's not fun. well Yeah, it's not' not fun. You put in the work for sure. And then... It sucks more when you have a teacher that just lets you drown. I'm never gonna live it down, my bad.
00:35:53
Speaker
Oh man. But it has been some of the most wonderful, like, wonderful in a technical sense, like, in that it has driven my curiosity for things. It's made me feel that sense of awe about nature. you're You were just mentioning a little bit earlier how there's a super tide right now, right? which But it was like king tides and stuff. Yeah, king tides. King tides, spring tide. Yeah. Yeah, you're really at the mercy of these, like, cosmic forces. Yeah.
00:36:23
Speaker
Literally planets line up or not planets, but sun, moon, earth line up certain directions. It affects how the ocean's going to react and timing and yeah, all of it. There's just what I feel like is there's so many variables that have an effect on the surf, on the waves, on the conditions in general. Like, yeah, there's obvious ones like wind and tide, but you don't necessarily factor in where's the moon.
00:36:53
Speaker
or there's a there's a storm out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean and it's sending ripples across and it's coming from the southwest direction at this angle and maybe it it'll turn on some other spots or you know like places that are big system everything yeah connected or like this place is even though there's heavy wind this one spot is actually pretty protected so It caught all it like it caught it caught all the the swell and none of the wind, so like that's probably the place to be. But like you won't know that unless like you've gone and experienced it and was like, oh, what were the conditions like that day? yeah Everything that's like that, I think this you know like surfing, and we were talking about things that like aren't really
00:37:43
Speaker
that that are part of the natural world, like whether it's like going even going on a hike or whatever, you're part of this really, really big system of complicated forces that are, you know, there's, like you're saying, maybe a storm coming out from way... of thousands and thousands of miles away that's, you know, contributing to what waves we're surfing out here. It's so crazy.
00:38:07
Speaker
But yeah, any any recommendations for people besides don't start no go go learn to serve go and serve people you know, like it's find something find something right that's like connects you to Find something that like you can really dive full into when you're practicing it or doing it or whatever it is like something that you can pour a hundred percent of your brain power into because that sense of engagement, again, that word, like that sense of engagement, sometimes like after a surf session, like, yeah, surfing is seen as fun, but also at the end of it, you feel almost like accomplished. You feel almost like, ah, that was, that was awesome that all I did was focus on that.
00:38:57
Speaker
The amount of focus that you have for two hours, three hours at a time on one thing is, it's pretty remarkable that like you can even do that. You know, like you're playing a ah basketball game that lasts three hours. That's awesome that you can like, you think about nothing else. You don't think about your financial situation and you don't think about a fight that you got into with a friend or whether or not you need to water the plants. Like you think about just that game or just that activity.
00:39:26
Speaker
That could be something like we said, as non-dynamic as puzzles.
Concluding Thoughts on Fulfillment Through Active Engagement
00:39:33
Speaker
Like those pieces aren't moving. We're not going nowhere. it's It is what it is. It's on the table, literally. But to be able to be fully engaged in that for hours at a time.
00:39:45
Speaker
You finish and you're like, oh man, I'm like kind of tired. I'm kind of exhausted to a certain degree, you know? Yeah. Yeah. We do need to be, we need to use your brain. Use your brain. Yeah. use your brain Whether that's surfing or not, like use your brain more. Yeah. Those people live the longest, you know, biologically we are what we do. And so the people that use their bodies and their brains more will preserve them.
00:40:12
Speaker
Yeah, there's uncles out there and like 80. I think we live fuller lives, right? Yeah. Well, yeah, you heard it from the man. No. Be fully engaged. You heard it from, I saw a mug today, the most okay-est surfer. I'll be the most okay-est surfer. Yeah, me too.
00:40:30
Speaker
Shout out to OK Circus. Alright man, thank you so much for being on the podcast. We appreciate it. Thanks for having me. um And to everyone else, we will be back next week. I'll be talking to someone who is working on education and the best ways to teach the younger generation. um So I think that's really important in light of, you know,
00:40:53
Speaker
what we were talking about that that kids have are growing up in a hard world where they can just be cut off from things from from nature from other people from the things that give us life so um stick around and and i'll see you next time all right thanks thanks brother