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The Listener Mailbox Episode (& Season 1 Reflections)
89 Plays10 days ago
What if two friends started a podcast about Pride & Prejudice adaptations? What if Season 1 is finished and they have more things to say? What if they have your questions to answer?
Melinda and Stefanie reflect on the first 12 adaptations discussed on Jane Austen Remixed and share their favourite moments, behind the scenes thoughts, and answer your questions.
Links & Mentions
If you would like to learn more about Napeleon's role in Persuasion, read this helpful article from Jane Austen's House about war in all her works.
The adaptation set in historical Korea is called Behind Five Willows written by June Hur. You can follow the author on Instagram to stay up-to-date about the release.
If you need subtitles or a transcript, these are available through Apple Podcasts. Please note, they are auto generated so we apologise in advance for it not correctly understanding our accents on certain words.
As always you can find us (and our memes) on Instagram @janeaustenremixed and you can contact us via janeaustenremixed@gmail.com.
We'll be on break for a little while, but we'll let you know when we'll be back. Keep an eye out for a bonus episode - where we cast members of the Marvel Cinematic Universe as characters in Pride & Prejudice - while we're on hiatus. Happy reading!
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Transcript
Season One Reflection
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everyone, editing Melinda here. Well, you know how last episode technology hated us? Well, turns out technology decided to hate me this episode. Given I haven't changed my settings since we started recording the podcast, I don't understand what's going on.
00:00:17
Speaker
Apologies for the slightly dodgy audio quality, particularly on my microphone. We're working on it. Hey Stephanie. Hey Melinda. What if today we didn't have a Pride and Prejudice adaptation and just had a chat about the first 13 episodes of the podcast?
00:00:37
Speaker
I think that is an excellent idea.
00:00:54
Speaker
Welcome to Jane Austen Remix, the podcast where we examine the curious and questioning world of Pride and Prejudice adaptations. I'm Melinda. And I'm Stephanie. And yeah, there's no title or author or a blurb today. for doing something different.
00:01:11
Speaker
Yay! We are off script. Which is terrifying. really. Mildly terrifying. Am I going to be able to string a sentence together? Let's find out. Woohoo. So we've now released 13 episodes of Jane Austen Remixed. So that is one introduction and 12 adaptations, which feels amazing that we've made it to the end of season one. How does that feel, Stephanie?
00:01:39
Speaker
It feels pretty darn good. Yeah, I'm super proud that we decided to do this. We planned it for so long. so long. And then we finally bit the bullet. We're like, yep, it's got to be done. Let's do it.
00:01:53
Speaker
And here we are. We've put 12 adaptations out into the world. i am so proud of both of us and really proud of the work that we've done. And it feels amazing.
00:02:04
Speaker
Well, I co-sign all of that. I don't think there's a better way that I could have said it. We took so long... planning it out, but also life happened. So it was kind of one of those things where it's like life and
Favorite Adaptations: "Unmarriageable" and "Darcy's Story"
00:02:17
Speaker
podcast. And so here we are, so which is kind of fun.
00:02:21
Speaker
Right. So let's start with a quick look back at the adaptations we covered in season one. So Stephanie, what are the things that you liked in the adaptations that we covered?
00:02:35
Speaker
I really enjoyed the ones that completely committed to the bit. And when I say bit, I don't mean that in like a derogatory, like comedic kind of way. Like they really committed to the conceit they'd chosen. The unmarriageable episode, amazing. The way that she so beautifully melded her own culture with this Regency novel, it fitted so well and it was so amazing. Like she fully committed to it and it's such a beautiful piece of literature. Agreed.
00:03:06
Speaker
I haven't read it yet. I do have a copy. Thank you. But having you describe it to me was just, I was immediately immersed in the world and I'm really looking forward to reading it. If I ever start reading adaptations, I have to do myself.
00:03:21
Speaker
You'll get there. Yeah, and from my side, I really loved the Janet Aylmer one, Darcy's story. I think she, again, really committed to bringing his side of the story to life without taking anything away from the original story.
00:03:36
Speaker
And I think the other one that I really loved was, of course, The Scandalous Confessions of Lydia Bennet, which, because again, she fully committed to it and her genuine love of Jane Austen. really shines through
Adaptations and Societal Themes
00:03:50
Speaker
in that. She fully committed to Lydia's character and really immersing herself in that and bringing the whole story to life. Bringing in a character from Sanditon also, incredible. It was a complete world and I really believed it. There were no moments where I didn't think, oh, this bit doesn't work.
00:04:08
Speaker
How about you? What did you think? um I agree. I really like the books or the movies that really committed to the context with which they were adapted to. So, yes, unmarriageable, completely agree. I also, it's the book that started the podcast, but undeceived as well, really committing to that 1980s Cold War spy action movie aesthetic was definitely. When it embodies the world and you can't see the seams That's great storytelling. You think about any movie or any book, if you can see how it's being put together, there is something weirdly wrong. You shouldn't be able to see the seams. I really liked the grounded stories. I also really liked Elizabeth of East Hampton because it committed to its context as well.
00:04:55
Speaker
I mean, yes, the context was modern day America, so it wasn't as out there as some of the others, but it really committed to that bit. The other thing that I really liked in the adaptations are the ones that didn't just focus on the romantic drama between Darcy and Elizabeth.
00:05:11
Speaker
Feel like we've been over this ad nauseum with the podcast. But yes, if you like Pride and Prejudice because it is a romance between Elizabeth Bennet and Fitzwilliam Darcy, that is perfectly fine. That is a huge element of this story. There is no shade there.
The Role of Family and Female Friendships
00:05:29
Speaker
But I like Pride and Prejudice because it is that, but it's also a novel that explores societal pressures, manners, class, people growing and evolving and learning and all of those sorts of things, which obviously are in romances too. But I liked Elizabeth of East Hampton because they're with the sisters. Anything that tried something took a swing with a plot point, actually tried to adapt something so the book or movie actually looked like Pride and Prejudice. That was a win for me.
00:06:00
Speaker
Yeah, completely agree. And I think that brings us really nicely to the next question, particularly your point about the sisters. What did you not like so much about the adaptations? And we're not going to nitpick here particular books, night listeners. What we're talking about is broad themes that we've seen so far that crisscross across various adaptations that we've read.
00:06:23
Speaker
opposite side of that coin that I was just talking about. But I wasn't a massive fan of adaptations that were either missing the Bennett family completely or missing a female friendship substitute in that. So Elizabeth of East Hampton worked really well, in my opinion, because the Bennett family were there and There wasn't a massive role for the Charlotte character, but the Bennetts were there and their friendships and relationships were really strong. Same with a lot of the other adaptations that we liked. Again, i don't want to nitpick ones that I didn't like, but if it was just the Darcy and Bennett show, i wasn't a massive fan. Those relationships feeling grounded, i think really can make or break an adaptation.
00:07:06
Speaker
I totally agree. And a lot of my favourite ones replaced those close bonds with friendship bonds. One of the reasons why Bridget Jones's diary works so well is because while she doesn't have any close siblings, she does have her friends.
00:07:22
Speaker
She has Tom, she has Jude, she has Shazza. They're really close. They're really supportive. They're all strange in their own ways, but so are the Bennett sisters. They're developed characters. They all have their own issues and but they're distinct and they stand out. And that was one of the things that I really loved about, again, going back to the Lydia Bennett adaptation.
00:07:43
Speaker
You can see Lydia's desperation to form those close bonds because she was so jealous of what Jane and Elizabeth had together. And she went out of her way wherever she was to try and recreate that feeling that she saw her sisters having. And that for me was one of the really key parts of that adaptation sticking its landing.
00:08:05
Speaker
And even if those friendships had rocky moments, I'm i'm thinking particularly here of Stuck Up and Stupid, which is an adaptation I really liked, that adapted a lot of the plot points really well. And I wouldn't necessarily say the female friendships are really strong in that. The Georgiana character has a little bit of that right near the end, but her rocky relationship with the Charlotte character creates some interesting conflict. So again, it's yeah widening it out from that romance angle.
00:08:34
Speaker
but Just on Stuck Off and Stupid before we move on, I really liked the adaptation of the Elizabeth and Charlotte friendship in that. Yes, it did hurt my heart that she chose to like move away to l LA and get involved in that shallow lifestyle, shall we say.
00:08:51
Speaker
But it really modernized and mimicked the tension that we see in the original friendship. Charlotte is very grounded and very pragmatic Well, very much to the point of being very shocking. She marries this man who is foolish.
00:09:08
Speaker
Yes, he has a good job and yes, he is going to become landed gentry, but he's foolish and he cannot ever be a match for her in terms of intellect and conversation. And it's very shocking to Elizabeth and to us as readers.
00:09:23
Speaker
So yeah, I think Stuck Up and Stupid modernized the tension in the Elizabeth and Charlotte friendship really, really well. Agreed. Was there anything for you, Steph, that you did not like in the adaptations that we looked at in season one?
Characterization of Darcy: Growth vs. Stereotypes
00:09:38
Speaker
Yeah. Darcy being a walking red flag. Yeah. Was just, oh my God, in so many of them.
00:09:48
Speaker
I feel like I've become a broken record a little bit on the podcast, but the original storyline is not hot, rich guy is mean to you, then you fall in love with him and he continues to be hot and mean.
00:10:01
Speaker
The whole point of the story continues is that he realizes that he is inadequate. And he says it himself. You pointed out my flaws and I realized that I was not worthy of a woman who was worthy of being pleased.
00:10:18
Speaker
One of the most romantic things a man could ever, ever say. You pointed out that I was being a jerk. I realized that you were right and I was a jerk. So I went away and I've worked on myself. Oh, by the way, I rescued your sister and your family's reputation.
00:10:31
Speaker
But also like no pressure. Yeah, absolutely. Amazing. He's an incredible character. And just thinking back to the Me and Mr. Darcy episode with a stupid article from The Guardian that was just deranged.
00:10:45
Speaker
That's right. About how awful and a bore and, you know, we have to save women from Darcy syndrome. I'm like, no, no we don't. We need to save women from like Fifty Shades of Grey syndrome. Because they actually need a Mr. Darcy and not a Christian Grey. And before anybody says anything, no, I have not read the books. I have not seen the movies.
00:11:06
Speaker
But I have absorbed enough cultural commentary to know what I'm talking about here. So yeah anytime where I found it was particularly in the Hallmark ones, there is no character development. He's either secretly actually really amazing from the start, but doesn't actually ever do anything to show Elizabeth how amazing he is. Just other people are like, oh, no you should definitely be in love with him because he's a philanthropist. Was it a philanthropy consultant to the White House? which is just okay great but what does that mean wish i knew does it actually mean he's doing anything good because if you look at a lot of political philanthropy from both sides of the political spectrum none of it is good I completely agree. I think the other tricky part as well is the whole character of Darcy is kind of weird to translate into anything modern because you've got the rich, you've got the class divide. There's a difference between Lander Gentry and
00:12:06
Speaker
Landed gentry. Landed gentry. There is a difference between the man who is possibly richer than the royal family and the people that should be comfortable, but Mr. Bennett has terrible management skills and they have no money left. And because you have that class dynamic and because he's rich and he's rude, to translate the class thing...
00:12:26
Speaker
Or the rude thing into a modern context. There are a couple of times where there were these like weird power dynamics or like weird age gaps between. Yeah, yes. I think there is like a six year. She's not yet one in 20.
00:12:41
Speaker
She's not yet one in 20. So she's. There we go. 20. And I think he's what, 26? 26. took maybe 28. He's around 26 or 28. So there is still a gap, but back then it was a lot more normal.
00:12:56
Speaker
It was a lot more normal back then, but also when you think about some of the other age gaps that were normalized, not that bad. They also on a much more equal footing in terms of intellect and interests and all those sorts of things.
00:13:11
Speaker
It could have been a lot worse, but you're totally right. When that gets translated verbatim into the modern day, that age gap becomes problematic. Yes, and creepy. And also it then turns Darcy into like a rude billionaire who like can just do whatever he wants and no i don't want that in my pride and prejudice story thank you very much 50 shades of great oh yeah I didn't even realize that's what i was describing but yes that was what I was describing by accident yeah yeah there are either these weird oh yeah he's really rich and she's really poor but we just like him because he's hot and there was But he's hot and he's rich. Like what else could you possibly want? That's what we're here for, right? Wrong.
00:14:01
Speaker
And, yeah, I totally agree. And I think, again, going back to Unmarriageable, I feel like that was one of the better translations yes of those power dynamics.
00:14:12
Speaker
because as the author has explained in many interviews and things, there is still a fairly rigid class structure in a country like Pakistan. I think the other thing is that Valentine Darcy was actually, he was still rude, but still experienced the character growth. So yes there was still, yes, he was a rich guy who was rude and said some awful things, but you did learn he was a good guy. i did enjoy how some of the more modern adaptations, so I'm thinking here of Elizabeth of East Hampton and even Stuck Up and Stupid to some degree.
00:14:48
Speaker
Darcy was rude, but the way they did the class thing was that it it kind of became more of a, oh, he's just socially awkward, which I know you're not a massive fan of the socially awkward Darcy trope. We discussed that in length in the Darcy's story episode from memory. But I think the way you have to modernize that without making him awful and unredeemable, right? Because it's about the redeeming side of things is, yes, he is rude. He did something socially inappropriate when he insulted Lizzie. That's all accurate.
00:15:21
Speaker
But it kind of becomes, well, in Elizabeth Leves Tempton's case, he's a workaholic. You know, he likes to control his situation and things. He's not controlling Elizabeth. You know, yes, he is very rich, but the class structure thing does get pushed aside a little bit. It's there, but it is pushed aside. I feel like it's translated in a modern way, though. Like, he is an entrepreneur and has access to a lot of money.
00:15:46
Speaker
She is a child of a family that has a struggling business. Yes. So again, they're both in business, but in vastly different worlds and vastly different ends of the spectrum, which I thought was a really good translation of being in like the same class structure, but vastly different ends of it.
00:16:03
Speaker
I also wanted to like draw Evan's attention back to your introduction to the Elizabeth of East Hampton episode, which was, what if Darcy wasn't a walking red flag? Yes. Which given we'd had a couple where he was a giant red flag waving like a bed sheet. I think it's called Colour Guard in America. Yeah.
00:16:23
Speaker
Yeah. We don't have those things in Australia, but the giant red, like 20 meter high flag, I don't know, make something as big as you can possibly think. And it's like, yes, hello. Hello, my red flags are showing.
00:16:37
Speaker
And yes, it's okay to grow and learn. And maybe he needed to start as a red flag in some things, but also you need to grow. That's the problem. What was the one where he didn't even apologize? Oh, it was Unleashing Mr. Darcy? Yeah, he never apologized. Yeah, you were right. It was your fault. Okay, let's get married. So yeah, Darcy not being awful was a great build in any of the adaptations.
00:17:04
Speaker
Wow, let's not make the mailman character awful. Or make him awful at the start. I'm still all here for him being rude at the start. Yes. He needs to set Elizabeth off on the wrong, give her the wrong first impression. That still needs to happen. He needs to be rude. He needs to be full of himself.
00:17:25
Speaker
Yes. But he needs to change that. There needs to be character growth. Oh. Exactly. And in the same way, you know, just to flip this round here, Elizabeth Bennett is also super judgmental.
00:17:40
Speaker
She needs to start the story. super judgmental, saying the wrong thing, maybe being too outspoken. And, you know, she needs to have her moment of reckoning as well. Yes. Yes, we're we're harping on Darcy here, but there are also moments where like, Elizabeth's got to learn a lesson too. And if she's always this reader self insert and is just ingenue. my God, yes. You took the words right out of my mouth.
00:18:07
Speaker
Hooray! I'm perfect! I don't know one's perfect, guys. We've all got to grow and learn to be better people and better humans. Yeah. Elizabeth as Mary sue is, or is like a Mary Sue style character who does everything right and knows everything and is so lovely and so perfect from the beginning. No, I'm sorry. That's Jane. That's Jane. True. It's not Elizabeth.
00:18:29
Speaker
Elizabeth is judgy and she's quick to jump to judgment and it is hard to change her opinion of someone. And, you know, sometimes she's not that nice. She's not as awful as Emma, but she has to have the character growth as well. They're supposed to grow together. They grow together to deserve each other. Mm-hmm.
00:18:47
Speaker
That's what makes such a great story. Along with all of the, you know, social commentary and everything else
Favorite Episodes to Write
00:18:53
Speaker
that we've mentioned. And like, we kind of went into that a lot in the last episode, talking about Bridget Jones as well. And what happens when you remove all of the social commentary, it becomes a very one-dimensional romance. And that is not why it is still so popular today.
00:19:06
Speaker
All right. So now we've kind of loosely covered the adaptations. Let's swap to the podcast questions. so Stephanie, what was your favorite episode to write?
00:19:17
Speaker
Oh, it's such a tough one. I have some runners up here. I really loved my two episodes where I brought out the tinfoil chapeau and firmly jammed it onto all of our heads. So me and Mr. Darcy, my first episode, I really enjoyed writing that because that book is deranged. It was really fun to write though, particularly when I went off down the rabbit hole of the weird article in The Guardian and my conspiracy theory that that was the trigger for her writing the book was reading that terrible article. That was hilarious.
00:19:51
Speaker
your face when I read you the first sentence of the article in the book and the first sentence of the actual article from the Guardian. Classic. I'll remember that forever. And I really enjoyed going off down the rabbit hole of AI books.
00:20:05
Speaker
i rabbi A rabbit hole that I had semi-started well before i ever read Love, Lovecraft and Mr. Darcy. So it was really nice to be able to bring some of my deranged wider podcast listening into our podcast and talk to you guys about it That was fascinating. The book is terrible and I did not enjoy reading it, but all the supplementary research for it was fascinating. And I stand by my opinion that that book is AI generated. But my favorite episode to write by far was The Scandalous Convessions of Lydia Bennet, which.
00:20:38
Speaker
Yep. I thought that might've been the case. Yeah. I think it was such a mindset shift for me as a whole, agreed like as a reader. It really sucked me in from the beginning and I was not expecting to enjoy it as much as I did.
00:20:51
Speaker
Not because the writer wasn't talented, but because i am not a fan of books that try to redeem the character of Lydia. You know, we don't need to redeem every terrible character. I think I cut out the part where i talked about like the movie Cruella, where they tried to make... cover Cruella the Disney character yeah to a sympathetic character who was you know her mother was murdered in front of her when she was a small child by Dalmatians and that's why she doesn't like them and she's actually a really amazing fashion designer and i'm like none of this explains why she went on a murderous rampage and tried to kill 101 puppies which is still where she wound up so why do we have this story that in no way links through the characters anyway That's what I don't enjoy about people trying to redeem characters.
00:21:39
Speaker
Wicked is also an exception to this because they did that really well. The way that was constructed and the way it slotted into the original, fantastic. It also had a much deeper layer to it as well. It's a social and political commentary. It's not just this like weird fluff. And I think Lydia Bennett, which had that aspect to it as well, it has that social commentary on why are girls judged so much more harshly for making mistakes than boys?
00:22:07
Speaker
Same with women and men. And that layer to it, I think, added the oomph. that was really needed. It had these incredible layers to it. It was really well constructed. it really drew me in from the start. i has an absolute cracker of an opening. And she stuck the landing. Yes, there were a couple of parts about the ending that I didn't so much enjoy, but that's very much a personal gripe. The book was really beautifully written, really well constructed. It was so interesting to get into and pull apart like the central mystery and all those sorts of things. Yeah. It's It was just, it was an amazing book to read. And so then obviously I really enjoyed writing about it. How about you?
00:22:47
Speaker
What was your favourite episode that you wrote? I think the episodes that I liked the best were the ones that had extra layers of research or something else going on with the adaptation that informed how you interpreted the adaptation. So it was one of the hardest episodes for me to write, but I loved writing Unmarriageable.
00:23:10
Speaker
because it was just such a good book. I liked writing the ones about the really good ones. So it was such a good book. But it was difficult for me because I wanted to make sure I represented a culture that is not my own well to you guys. I felt the responsibility of that and also all of the post-colonial influence on this story as well. Again, we live in a country that has that impact. And I wanted to make sure again, that I represented those issues well. So it was my one of my favorites to write, but it was really difficult.
00:23:46
Speaker
I just wanted to jump in here and say I thought you did it really well. Shush. You addressed the elephant in the room of like post-colonialism and, you know, we are two white women who live in a post-colonial society and I thought you acknowledged that really well and you addressed the book and the themes, obviously, of a culture that we are not overly familiar with. I thought you did it really well with a lot of nuance and without exoticising it. You came in up with this really beautiful energy because – And it was so obvious listening to you that you really loved the book and you took us on a really amazing journey. So you should allay all of your fears on that front because I thought you did it really well.
00:24:24
Speaker
It's very kind. I'm Australian. I don't take compliments well, so I'm currently trying not to shut down. So we're just going to keep skating. right We're just going to move right along from that. The other one I really enjoyed, but for a completely different reason, was Elizabeth V's Tampton.
00:24:41
Speaker
little bit of background to the podcast. So like, I think we said in our introduction, we planned this for a couple of years before we actually got to the point of releasing anything. Life happened, different things happened.
00:24:53
Speaker
But the first couple of times I tried to write the first few episodes, we've also recorded things out of order. There's been, again, life things happened. And we had to redo our first episode. So undeceived yeah completely. yeah And it required me to completely rework the notes.
00:25:10
Speaker
I say that because Again, this is my personality. I really like the detail. And I get really bogged down in that kind of thematic and story structure, which I find really fascinating. And the first couple of episodes I wrote were way too in the weeds.
00:25:26
Speaker
which is fine, that's what I find interesting. I hoped it would be what you guys would find interesting, but I think Elizabeth of East Hampton might've been the third one I wrote. And by the time I actually hit that, I read that book and was like, oh, I know exactly what I'm gonna say here because the authors did such a good job of writing that story. The adaptation was clear, the characters were easy to talk about because the characterization was so good. And I went, oh, I know how to write this one. I think I banged out those notes in like a day. It was so easy because the book was so good. And then I actually went back and like rewrote other sections because of what I'd done with Elizabeth Feast Hampton.
00:26:11
Speaker
Okay. So flipping that around, Melinda, what was your favorite episode of mine to experience? And I do want to put it out there because you so nicely complimented me before. I did like all of them. Oh. Yeah. No, accurate. Sorry, that's my deflection coming in. Be sarcastic.
00:26:31
Speaker
What was cool... particularly with how we set this up, is for most of these books, neither of us knew what was coming. So as much as I loved prepping my episodes, I also really enjoyed being surprised. So just completely like, where is this going?
00:26:49
Speaker
Having said all of that, I really liked Darcy's story because yes, it was surprising, in how some of those little things were it adapted. i also knew where it was going though, but i also really liked how you brought in the characterizations of the Darcys throughout history. I find that part of this story very fascinating and just what is the idea of a a male main character and how that works
00:27:22
Speaker
reflects what society expects, but also fantasizes about. And I found that fascinating. So yes, I know that kind of goes against everything that I just said about being completely surprised.
00:27:34
Speaker
The other one that I really liked though was the scandalous confessions of Lydia Bennett, which, because that did, I had no idea where that was going. Just listening to was like, okay, what's happening next? Hang on. Who's this? Why is this happening? And I found that It's fun listening to a friend tell you about a story that they are really passionate about and let it surprise you and take you on a journey. Thank you.
00:28:03
Speaker
i I enjoyed writing both of those episodes. The part of Darcy's story that I loved the most was, again, when I accidentally listened to a podcast that told me that Darcy was based on real life original influencer Bo Brummel. Oh, That for me was while writing it was just mind blowing.
00:28:19
Speaker
So your episodes, obviously i enjoyed all of them. That goes without saying. On that same note, and i think I said this already when I complimented you about the episode, Unmarriageable was an incredible episode to listen to.
Unique Elements in "Unleashing Mr. Darcy"
00:28:31
Speaker
It's got a lot of themes and a lot of density to it and a lot of really beautiful characterisation, really beautiful translations of the story. And you really brought that to life. Like I felt like I was experiencing the story for real. And the detail and the nuance that you were able to bring to that episode were fantastic and really, really entertaining.
00:28:49
Speaker
But I have to say my favourite episode purely because I had no idea where it was going and was left speechless at certain points was Unleashing Mr Darcy.
00:29:00
Speaker
the added layer of the dog show stuff yes and the flirting through terrier standards. Judging guidelines.
00:29:11
Speaker
Yes, the judging guidelines. It has like racy legs or racy, i don't know, absolutely insane. And I think purely for the shock factor, of just being like, i I do not know where this is going. I know where it's going to end up, but how we're going to get there is completely beyond my comprehension. And then throwing in having watched the Hallmark movie as well, which completely changed the storyline again. Mm-hmm.
00:29:39
Speaker
What? So, yeah, I found that one thrilling. Takes a lot for me to go on a rant. Mm-hmm. Unleashing Mr. Darcy made me rant. It was spectacular.
00:29:50
Speaker
When you get going, you really get going. So now we're going to pivot. We put out a question a few weeks ago on our Instagram, asking our listeners if they had any questions for us about the podcast, about the adaptations, about Jane Austen in general, and we got some responses. So...
Wickham's Actions and Motivations
00:30:07
Speaker
Here are some questions from you guys.
00:30:11
Speaker
This question's a bit long, but I really like it because it gets to the heart of why we do the adaptations and why we do this podcast. It's why and how things work in the story. So here we go. In Pride and Prejudice, what are your thoughts around why Wickham would go off with Lydia? He knows she's got no money.
00:30:29
Speaker
He knows it would cost him his job. He knows it would ruin the reputation he has really carefully built for himself. So why does he do it? Is he hoping her friendship with his boss's wife is really going to help him out?
00:30:42
Speaker
So that's Colonel Forster there and Harriet. Or did he suspect that Darcy would jump in? I love this question. i think it's fascinating. too I obviously have very strong opinions about this.
00:30:55
Speaker
I honestly think that Wickham wasn't thinking that far ahead. Yeah, great. And I honestly think that he didn't think that Lydia mattered at all. Her family has very little consequence, certainly none outside of the small town that they're from. She's essentially a no one.
00:31:10
Speaker
And let's not forget that he already tried this with the daughter of very, very rich and very, very consequential landed gentry. He already tried this with Georgiana Darcy.
00:31:24
Speaker
Obviously, his aim there was her fortune, but he didn't give a toss about his reputation. he didn't give a toss about her reputation. He knew if they had actually eloped, it would have gotten out, but he didn't care because then he would have been rich. And that is all he cares about. He certainly doesn't care about his job. He'd already lost his job because of his gambling debts.
00:31:42
Speaker
So that's why he was actually fleeing town. Lydia thought there was something, you know, and being silly, being a young girl and making a mistake that is unfortunately a little bit more permanent than a lot of her peers' mistakes. She went with him.
00:31:54
Speaker
I am absolutely certain that he had no idea that Darcy would step in. And I just don't think he was thinking any further ahead than, hey, there's someone to keep me warm.
00:32:05
Speaker
He's a rake. Let's not forget that. I'll take her as far as London and then I will discard her and I will move on. He is just going to move on and like he has done countless times already I alluded to throughout the book, he's just going to rely on his wits and his charm to get himself into a position where he can, yet again, find a rich woman and try and marry her.
00:32:26
Speaker
Let's not forget that while he was in Hertfordshire, he was really trying to marry Mary King. Anyway, Melinda, your thoughts. No, I agree with what you said. I would say, though, that I think he has really carefully built, I wouldn't necessarily call it a reputation, but he has really curated his image in every town that he goes to. Yes, Yes, by running off from Brighton with a woman who was staying with his boss and wife, that fact does break down that image a little bit, but... yeah
00:33:02
Speaker
The image starts breaking down as soon as he leaves. So as soon as Lizzie gets back to Longbourn, Mrs. Bennett in her hysteria from her bed is like, oh no, we keep getting all of these reports now that Wickham is actually a bad guy and has, yeah what's the wording? Meddled with every tradesman's daughter in town. There's there's some weird phrasing. There's some weird language in there.
00:33:26
Speaker
which I think we can all infer what's being um implied there, that didn't come out until he'd left. So he has curated an image of Wickham has all the looks and I think it's Lizzie that says it at one point when it all starts coming out, Wickham has all the looks of being the gentleman but Darcy has all the actions of being the gentleman. I can't remember the exact wording but there is, they discuss that. But I think you're right. In this moment, he had to get out of Dodge because he owed a significant amount of money to his fellow soldiers and he had to move on in order to save himself. I agree. He definitely was very careful about curating that image, particularly that image of himself as the gentleman over the years because the education that he received, care of Mr Darcy, the older Mr Darcy, was something that he used to his advantage because he had the looks and the manners.
00:34:23
Speaker
And I think I spoke about this in the introductory episode. Jane Austen does this a lot where she uses really good looking characters to, especially good looking male characters, to really push on that innate societal trust that we have of people who are good looking.
00:34:38
Speaker
Because if they're good looking, it must be an external show of their inner goodness. You know, the gods have blessed them. If we reach back into the annals of ancient Greek literature, the gods have blessed them with a beautiful face because they are a beautiful person. So it's really interesting to see how the character is used to manipulate the reader as well as the other characters in the book.
00:35:00
Speaker
Yes. And I do like, I think in all of the adaptations that we've done, I've really enjoyed how... the Wickham arc has been adapted. The ones that actually attempt it anyway. There are a couple that don't. I think we mentioned earlier, undeceived. Wickham is there, but it's not that plot line isn't really adapted completely.
00:35:23
Speaker
I think there are some adaptations where it gets parked and it makes sense to park it. They just didn't want to try and touch it because you have to have a character who looks good to start with and seems like least a really good person to start with. And then you have to have them break things to the point where it impacts not only a character in the Bennett family, but then impact the reputation of the entire Bennett family. So Darcy gets activated.
00:35:51
Speaker
Yes. And then it also has to link back to Darcy's family reputation because he needed a good reason to not expose the original perpetrator as well, as well as feeling responsible.
00:36:04
Speaker
Yes. The Wickham Huck is actually very difficult. And I think I said this in the introductory episode. It is really difficult to adapt. And I've applauded the adaptations who have actually tried to do it. Elizabeth of East Hampton did it really well.
00:36:19
Speaker
Yes, it wasn't Lydia. It wasn't the MLM. It was Mary. Great bait and switch. ah was great. And the economic and social impact that yeah her getting arrested and him pulling out, that was incredible. And then you've got Unleashing Mr. Darcy also did it really well too because George Wickham was the parent of a student and destroyed Elizabeth's reputation in a teaching sense by making up lies about her. So, yes, that didn't have...
00:36:50
Speaker
an extra character it was done to lizzie rather than to someone else but the darcy character felt responsible because george was part of his i wouldn't say circle they didn't really know each other but social class and that that class divide was activated in that so and i think i remember in your episode me and mr darcy that yeah elder abuse it activated
Diverse Adaptations and Historical Contexts
00:37:13
Speaker
that way. So yeah yeah books that actually try it, I think really understand what this question is getting at, which is there is an image, there is something that needs to break. Yeah. I think the best part of me and Mr. Darcy, and I commented at the time that it was unfortunately done with too quickly because that elder abuse and that shame that was inflicted on his victims for having fallen for his charms and lost all of their money, that was such an incredible reading of The Wicker Mark.
00:37:46
Speaker
So, Melinda, is there an adaptation or a style of adaptation that you haven't seen anywhere yet that you would like to see? So this question is tricky because i feel like in what we've covered so far, there are a lot of different styles of adaptations. So there seem to be a lot of, and we will cover some of these eventually, there are a lot of fantasy versions and supernatural versions that But looking back onto what I like about adaptations, I think what I'd be looking for in an adaptation next is, again, something that really commits to the context.
00:38:26
Speaker
And is there a different time period that we can go to where they can commit to that context as strongly Before the podcast started, I would have said I want to see modern day adaptations because I didn't think there was a way that that could be done well. But I think the first season of the podcast has shown us that there are actually modern day adaptations that can do it very well.
00:38:49
Speaker
So, yeah, there is a book that is upcoming that we've seen on Instagram that is set in historical career, which I am fascinated by and cannot wait to read.
00:39:03
Speaker
i am so excited for that episode. It's going to be amazing. There are a few that we've kind of seen loosely around, so I'm sure we'll get to some of those eventually, but I think that yeah is what I'm looking forward to.
00:39:16
Speaker
Yeah, cool. My answer to this question is way more specific. Okay. And I'm not sure how it would work, but remember when we shared that reel from Good Omens for Jane Austen's birthday? it was talking about Jane Austen as like badass, rum-running criminal. And there was a comment, several comments from him followers being like, this needs to be an adaptation.
00:39:39
Speaker
And I... hard agree. i do not know how it will work but either it's Jane Austen and she's writing books as a cover and like during the the story she's writing Pride and Prejudice.
00:39:52
Speaker
Yeah. But then she's like doing all this stuff in the background and her cover story is that she's a demure bachelorette writer and then she meets her own Mr dar Darcy of course. Or is it that Elizabeth having seen her father's financial mismanagement of the estate and being worried about none of them getting married in time and what happens if he dies, decides to just like start stockpiling cash so that they can continue. Obviously, they can't live in their own house, but she can like buy them a nice house somewhere else. So she starts like smuggling.
00:40:24
Speaker
So very specific. It's very specific. And then also Darcy is also a smuggler. So you know like in The Darcy Governess, how he secret businesses all over the world because he thought he was going to get blackmailed by Wickham? He is also secretly hiding that his father lost all of the money.
00:40:44
Speaker
So he's trying to like supplement and they run into each other in the criminal underworld. And then they also start seeing each other as parties because he's like moved into her territory. ah I bet you this exists.
00:40:57
Speaker
It probably does. It has to exist. It has exist. If it doesn't, I'm going to have to write it. We're going to have to make a novelist out of you. okay. That's what's cool about this corner of the literary world and how we keep finding stuff.
00:41:12
Speaker
spoken to people about this podcast and they're like that's so niche aren't you gonna run out of stuff to do like oh no we have like a list of at least 100 things and people keep publishing them we have so much content that does sound amazing it kind of it appeals to both of our spy slash action movie interest yes yes you know i love a trashy action film yes amazing there's definitely a carriage chase in there somewhere All right. so the next question that we have now, listeners, this is very specifically niche.
00:41:48
Speaker
Stephanie has a list already, apparently, so this will be fun. You guys have probably heard, due to the many Marvel references throughout the podcast so far, that both Stephanie and I are fans of at least the Infinity Saga of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I stopped watching after the Infinity Saga, I have to admit.
00:42:10
Speaker
I'm still loosely watching, just not necessarily on opening night like I used to but we'll see. So yes, we are fans of Marvel. If you do not know Marvel, I apologize. This question is going to lose you a little bit, but skip the next five minutes. Yeah, yeah. Five minutes? You really think we'll only talk for five minutes? Let's see. going to cut down to five.
00:42:33
Speaker
Hey guys, so remember when Steph said we'd talk for five minutes about the Marvel Cinematic Universe casting in Pride and Prejudice? We spoke 450. So look out for that extra episode dropping in your podcast feed at some point during our hiatus. You're welcome.
00:42:50
Speaker
Okay, so to the next question. Also, I'd like to point out, just a side note at this point, we've been recording for two hours and we're having a ball. So, Melinda, what is your second favourite Jane Austen novel?
00:43:04
Speaker
Okay, so this is not a controversial pick. I feel like a lot of people this might be their favourite. I really like Persuasion. Having a slightly more mature heroine in Anne Elliot, And I mean, the really second chance love story is really beautiful. And also Captain Wentworth is a really nice guy as well. I think that really makes it. You also get to see Anne is kind of the calm, introverted person. And I think that that's really nice.
00:43:32
Speaker
She's a lot quieter and less showy than a lot of the other Austen heroines. So I think it would be Persuasion is probably my second favorite. Hard agree.
00:43:43
Speaker
It's the second one I ever read after Pride and Prejudice. And i loved it immediately. Yeah, for all the reasons that you said. Captain Wentworth. Oh, what a dreamboat.
00:43:55
Speaker
What an amazing romantic hero. Just fabulous. Just sitting quietly in the corner of the room, writing a letter to the love of his life, who's on the other side of the room. He thinks flirting with someone else.
00:44:07
Speaker
And then handing it to her and smoke bobbing. Hats off. What a great way to get the girl. but but i mean, it does help that it has the second most romantic line out of any of the Austen ones, right?
00:44:19
Speaker
I write to you half in agony, half in hope. Oh, what a man. Anyway, I agree. Persuasion. And I think as well that veering away from the romance very briefly There are other really interesting plot points, like the family dynamics of the Elliot family and how she negotiates that and how awful they are and trying to do all of that. And also the other thing that I really like about Persuasion that I did not notice when I first read it, but given when it was published and the fact that Captain Wentworth is in the Navy, Napoleon is about to attack England again in this timeline. So, oh, no.
00:44:59
Speaker
That's bad. Are you learning this right now, Stephanie? I've literally never thought about the timeframe of any of these because I am not a modern history girly. And I know Napoleon's not really modern history, but, you know, no anything, babes, anything that is more recent than the 4th century AD in Greece or Rome, I'm not really that au fait.
00:45:19
Speaker
it Yes. Well, it's something that comes up, it got pointed out to me, and then it pops up in memes every so often when people do wrap-ups of persuasion, this is right before, I'm pretty sure it's Napoleon. I'm fairly certain it's Napoleon. has to be. But my brain is currently not awake. But yes, Napoleon is about to attack, which means we're about to have the major naval battles between France and England. So that love story has a very big cloud hanging over it, which is fascinating. And Jane would have known it.
00:45:55
Speaker
I mean, she wouldn't have known necessarily that Napoleon was about to attack. I'm not quite sure if it was written before or after, but it's in the vicinity. There's the reason that the militia are so active in Pride and Prejudice. Like they were in a war footing. so and there is that famous line where ah Lizzie asks if they're defending Hertfordshire against the French. Yes.
00:46:17
Speaker
And at least one of her brothers was in the Navy. So she has quite a high vision of the Navy. So making Captain Wentworth in the Navy is really good, but also historically there is then the cloud.
00:46:29
Speaker
Yeah, it's really good. I would like to point out in my own defense, I am well aware of Napoleon. I'm just not real good on like the timeline of Napoleon. Hey everyone, editing Melinda here, again. My detail-oriented brain could not let my vague descriptions about the Napoleonic Wars go, so here is the correct timeline as it relates to persuasion.
00:46:50
Speaker
Captain Wentworth originally proposes, then Anne Elliot breaks the engagement in 1806. The Napoleonic Wars between France and Britain started 1803. Captain Wentworth is at sea during this period and his conquests are how he made his fortune.
00:47:07
Speaker
Captain Wentworth and Anne Elliot meet again in 1814 and become engaged. The following year, so that's 1815, is the Battle of Waterloo, which likely would have called Captain Wentworth back to sea. When the book was published in 1818, Austen's readers would have seen this cloud on their horizon.
00:47:24
Speaker
Anyway, back to the podcast. So next question, Stephanie, which Jane Austen heroine do you think you associate with the most?
00:47:37
Speaker
This one's really hard because great my instinct is, of course, to say Lizzie. I think that's a good instinct. for you No, no. i think it's very sweet that you agree with my grand vision of myself as a person.
00:47:53
Speaker
And I'm not just saying that because, you know, she's the grand heroine. She's opinionated. Sometimes she voices those opinions when she shouldn't. And sometimes she's very judgmental in a way that's not healthy.
00:48:05
Speaker
And I acknowledge those flaws in myself. I wasn't thinking of those things. Thank you. So I am in two frames of mind here. If we go Jane Austen heroine, if we're thinking main character, so I'm thinking the main six novels, main heroines here, i feel like because of the introvert calmness, I feel like I am a lot of an Anne Elliot.
00:48:29
Speaker
I think that is definitely my vibe. On that note, I think I would aspire to be a Jane Bennett if we're going to link it back to Pride and Prejudice and not do the main heroines.
00:48:44
Speaker
I can see that. I would like to hope, and it is something I try to work on, that I go through the world trying to think the best of people, obviously with my eyes open, but I think I try to act with kindness. I see that in you already.
00:49:02
Speaker
That's very kind. Yes. Because I have to admit, on my worst days, I definitely stray into Emma Terrell-Shorey. For being brutally honest about ourselves, on my worst days, I am definitely Emma.
00:49:14
Speaker
if If we're going worst days, I think my worst days, I turn into Mary. Very rules following. But the rules said this, why is this not happening? There is a process and the process must be followed. Yes, that's exactly correct. And saying dumb things in the wrong situation if I am under stress.
00:49:36
Speaker
Have you met Emma? Yeah. <unk>s Saying something mean when she thinks she's being kind of funny. ah For everyone listening, Steph just pointed at herself.
00:49:49
Speaker
Okay, so final question.
Season Two Preview: Themes and Expectations
00:49:52
Speaker
Melinda, as a sneak preview, what are you most excited for in season two? Getting into the weeds of more adaptations. I think that's been my favorite part of the podcast so far. I kind of have two favorite things that I've been really excited by is just digging into the adaptations and really doing that textual analysis on them. I loved studying English Lit.
00:50:14
Speaker
I love that stuff. So getting to do more of that, I'm very excited by. I also have really loved watching our Instagram community grow as well and actually being able to yeah share this experience with all of you guys. And we've been chatting backwards and forwards with a few people. It's great. so more of that I'm also excited for to see if we grow even more.
00:50:38
Speaker
But we're also doing in season two without giving much away, because it is a little bit in advance, we're going to be doing some of, I think, both of our favorite adaptations. One of mine in particular is an absolute favorite.
00:50:54
Speaker
And I think we're also doing one of Stephanie's favourites. Yes. So i think getting into the weeds of what makes these adaptations really great retellings of Pride and Prejudice is kind of what I'm most excited for.
00:51:08
Speaker
What about you? i agree. I am very excited for our little community to grow some more and to sort of have more of those fun interactions online with people.
00:51:21
Speaker
And i didn't major in English at university, but I did do the most amount of English that you could cram into your final year exams of high school. So I also love getting back into the depths of textural analysis and all that sort of stuff. I love this and it's such a great creative outlet for me outside of work, which is awesome. And i have a degree in archaeology.
00:51:48
Speaker
I'm really looking forward to the episode that is basically a mashup of Pride and Prejudice and my favorite movie of all time, which is The Mummy. That one's going to be a doozy. So is this the point where I admit that I haven't seen The Mummy?
00:52:02
Speaker
Oh my God. Melinda. It's Jane Eyre all over again. The 1999 Mummy is one of the greatest films ever made. And while these people may not have paid that much attention to how many curses there were in the Bible, how many curses of Egypt there were, or even indeed what they were, boy, did they absolutely nerd out on the hieroglyphics. And the hieroglyphics are correct, which is a detail I was not expecting.
00:52:36
Speaker
Melinda's homework is going to be watched to watch The Mummy. I haven't read the books yet, so I don't even know if it's going to be relevant. But you need to watch it because the main female character, Evie, is basically Peggy Carter. You will love her.
00:52:49
Speaker
She's Peggy Carter, but way nerdier. Great. That sounds like something. That's what I'm excited for. Well, as Stephanie said, we've been recording for a really long time now thanks to our Marvel Cinematic Universe casting tangent.
00:53:02
Speaker
So I think it's time to wrap up your questions there. So thank you very much for everyone that submitted questions. And we hope. you enjoyed this episode of Jane Austen Remixed. We love exploring this wonderful corner of the literary world with you. Please share the podcast with your friends, family, literary fans, and other Janeites. And we would love it if you could leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you are listening. This helps us to reach other fans of Pride and Prejudice and build our community.
00:53:28
Speaker
You can also follow us on Instagram at Jane Austen Remixed. If you have a question or a suggestion for a book or movie or something you'd like us to review, drop us a line. You can email us at janeaustenremixed at gmail.com. Now, this is the end of our season one arc.
00:53:46
Speaker
We're going to go on hiatus for a little while. The exact time is TBD. You guys will be the first to know as soon as we are back recording. We just need to get a few episodes ahead again because life lifed. Life is lifing. So we're going to take a little break just so we can prep and get ahead again, but we will be back again. As soon as we can.
00:54:07
Speaker
Thank you for joining us on this journey so far. It has been an absolute blast. Thank you, Stephanie, for joining me so far. Thank you, Melinda. And we are stoked to keep going through this awesome little corner of the world.
00:54:23
Speaker
Yes, we're absolutely loving it. And we will be back once we have had enough of a break to read a lot of books for season two. And as you know, we normally sign off asking if Darcy has dived into a lake.
00:54:37
Speaker
There wasn't really an opportunity in this one for us to discuss any Darcy's diving into lakes. So i think we got a pretty consistent hit rate of over 50% of Darcy's diving into lakes. So I'm going to call that a successful season.
00:54:50
Speaker
Woohoo! See you next time.
00:55:28
Speaker
you