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S01E25: Rinse Off with the Rise of Skywalker!
35 Plays1 year ago
It's the end of our sequel watch party, as Phil, Ben, and Bob share their reactions to Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker! You may be surprised at some of the reactions... make sure to listen!
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Transcript
Star Wars Sequel Rewatch Reflection
00:00:00
Speaker
We're wrapping up our sequel rewatch. Grab your joints and brooms. It's a Star Wars cleaning crew.
00:00:08
Speaker
Welcome back to Star Wars cleaning crew episode 25, a little bit of a milestone. We are ending our series, the rewatch of the sequels or the first time watch with Phil, the rewatch with me and Ben. Last week we took in the rise of Skywalker and we spent some time talking about it. So with no further ado, let's cut over to that and hear what we had to say.
00:00:34
Speaker
Okay, so
Princess Leia's Legacy
00:00:35
Speaker
we have come to the end of the Skywalker saga as I have for the last two weeks. Phil, what did you think? Who are you going to RIP this time? Who do you think I'm going to RIP this time? The woman with her picture on my wall, right? That's right. RIP to Princess Leia, but also RIP to Carrie Fisher, one of the oh one of the greats. And I know, you know, just sort of given the timing of her passing relative to I think production on this film, her her role had to be reduced. And I think to a degree, you know, her, her presence in the film and the overall plot had to be reduced. But I think the way that they, how they presented her sacrifice was, I think maybe the most beautiful and poetic that they could have, you know, sort of reaching out one last time to Ben. And I think giving all of the energy she had left for that was a really kind of poetic end to her
00:01:32
Speaker
uh, saga, and especially given the fact that they had to basically be used as I understand it, like archival footage. So I'll say RIP to Leia and Carrie Fisher, just to, you know, close for the third time. RIP. I will say
Themes of Loss and Sacrifice
00:01:46
Speaker
also, you know, I was thinking about this and I think given the fact that, you know, we lose sort of one iconic hero after another in each of these films and this new trilogy.
00:01:57
Speaker
In certain ways, I think the film is about loss to a degree and how we kind of live with that loss. I was also thinking about how it's maybe the sacrifices we make, the sacrifices we make for our loved ones and the people that we care about, our friends and our family. And the example that kept coming back to me was you know C-3PO reading the Sith sword you know and having to wipe his memory card and all the memories of his friends to do that. And it's played for laughs, obviously, but like I think there's kind of a deeper layer to that. So I feel like you know there's a bit of that theme of loss that just feels like it kind of permeates the film in a variety of ways. There's other ways beyond that, I think, but that especially.
00:02:38
Speaker
I remember seeing that scene from with C3PO saying, you know, I'm looking one last time at my friends, yeah like ugly sobs coming out of me when I saw that in the trailer, because I was in the trailer for this movie. 3PO definitely had some great moments in this movie. But, you know, I had thoughts. I
Plot Critiques and Surprises
00:02:57
Speaker
definitely had thoughts after watching it again. Ben, I'm going to let you weigh in before I get to my thoughts.
00:03:02
Speaker
ah That's great. I don't have a big list this time, you guys. I thought maybe I overdid it last time, and I want people to know I like Star Wars, and I want it to be good. You didn't come across that negatively. You really did. That's comforting.
00:03:17
Speaker
Well, look, i you know what's interesting is, first of all, Phil, I think you're elevating the material. um I think it's great. I think i try try my best. That's right. I think, though, that there's aspects of that that get undercut all the time. And I think there's a lot of, there's too many kind of mystery box things. There's too many like, oh, but then surprise, this happens. And it ends up undercutting a lot of the stuff that was going to be dramatic and significant.
00:03:43
Speaker
3PO
Correcting Past Missteps
00:03:44
Speaker
gets his memory back. No big deal. R2 has, you know, a backup. OK, well, that wasn't so bad. You know, and there's there's a whole bunch of of they kind of blew like Chekhov's smoking R2D2 failed backup because they set that up as like, oh, he's notoriously bad at that. But then, oh, it was fine. Well, and also like there's the there's the Chewbacca death misdirect. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
00:04:10
Speaker
You know, there's a lot of different stuff. And I think there's a lot of this that's also a movie that they had to try to get the thing back on track and tell the fans, don't pay too much attention to the last movie. We're fixing all that now.
00:04:24
Speaker
And so as a result, unfortunately, I think it also undercuts a lot of the movie that you're watching because they kind of spend a lot of time taking little side shots at that. You know, like when Luke, for example, Ghost Luke grabs the lightsaber, Ray is about to throw it away and you're like, okay. So you guys were all listening to us, whinge about that. And now you want to make sure we know that Luke thinks lightsabers are important. And so he says something about Jedi don't throw these things away, you know.
00:04:53
Speaker
Well, he does point out there that he changed, right? He was wrong. He said, I was wrong, which was the point of The Last Jedi was he started off as old man, curmudgeonly Luke. And by the end, you know, he's like, you know, I will not be The Last Jedi cut to Rey. So so there was some evolution in there. But here's kind of my take on this. And I think I think you and I are vibing, Ben, is there are a lot of really great moments in this film.
00:05:19
Speaker
And I do remember because Harrison, my son and I are notoriously bad at crying through movies. We both, you know, we cried through movies and we were sitting next to each other at just like various times throughout the whole thing, just like, you know, tearing up and welling up and all of that kind of stuff.
Favorite Moments and Characters
00:05:41
Speaker
Let let me list let me list some of them, right? So I did take notes.
00:05:45
Speaker
First off, Lando Calrissian is in it. Fantastic, right? The new music that John Williams wrote for kind of the shared Skywalker family. like I love that. And then they wound up using that on the Star Cruiser bin when you're going up to the st tu du tuun like chokes me up all the time. um You know, the I am all the Jedi moment when we heard all of the Jedi voices, including like ones from the animation. Wedge freaking Antilles is in this movie. OK, it's fanservice. I hate that word fanservice. Phil doesn't know who we're talking about. Wedge was one of my heroes and just seeing him for one second and there was great.
00:06:28
Speaker
the chess scene with Chewie at the beginning where, you know, like, is he cheating was super funny. Babu Frick, what a great little character, you know, the all of the moments with C-3PO. Keri Russell is in this movie. Keri Flippen Russell and Richard E. Grant as the general price, where they needed a new bad guy to kind of replace Hawks after he had kind of been messed up.
00:06:53
Speaker
Ian McDermott, say what you want about the dead speak and the crazy like somehow Palpatine returned. McDermott was great in this movie. He he always is. yeah But the whole thing just does not hang it together. It does not stand up to multiple watchings. And Ben, you're hitting you're hitting some of them as well. I think that there was a lot of going through the motions and checking off the corporate wish list of things that needed to happen.
Production Challenges
00:07:25
Speaker
And that frustrates me about this film. And like you were saying, Phil, it it wasn't just, you're right about Carrie Fisher passing away and that having such an impact on the production. It was also, what's his name, who was supposed to direct, ah Colin Trevorrow, right? Who was supposed to direct this movie, got fired like the last minute.
00:07:44
Speaker
And it's like, okay, bring in JJ to write a whole new script and and start over. Like, and still get it done in two years. Insanity. Insanity. So that's kind of my take. I'll just say like, you know, Bobby hit on a few things that I wrote down as well. And again, reminder for the listeners, I i was considering myself and, you know, I enjoy these movies. I wouldn't consider myself a diehard fan or like part of the fandom, but I do enjoy them and I've seen a bunch of them. That being said, even I was kind of like,
00:08:15
Speaker
This feels like too much fan service. Uh, there's a couple of things and granted the thing with the, you know, the last minute firing of the director and having to be replaced by JJ, I really didn't like the Palpatine revival. It felt for me, cheap, unearned, unexplained. They sort of referenced, Oh, maybe they cloned him or they made kind of an offhanded comment about something, but it felt like, you know, maybe he didn't know how to wrap it up. Maybe that was because of lack of time, or they just didn't have a central villain that, so he wanted to pull something from the past.
00:08:45
Speaker
um Also, that Ray was a Palpatine. I didn't i didn't like that. you know It just, again, just felt felt unearned. I didn't get it. It also feels thrown together. and Also, why would he kill his son to get his granddaughter? It just doesn't feel earned. I like the fan service. you know It's fun. like is Lando is fun. Is it a little cheap? and Maybe.
00:09:05
Speaker
but like That's major franchises for you, I feel like. yeah yeah It's a little messy, but ah overall, you know I think it's it's fun, it's enjoyable. Do I think it's cleanly wrapped up? No, but I think it's a nice wrap up to the trilogy. and And I think maybe in certain ways, even more than the previous two movies, I felt like the you know the excitement, the pace, the adventure of the story, especially the climatic battle scene,
00:09:31
Speaker
I actually in some ways liked it more than the previous two, which I wasn't expecting, but something about it, I was finding myself just sort of sitting there really enjoying it even more than even the previous two films.
00:09:41
Speaker
Again, there are moments, right? there There are scenes, there are sequences that just work really well. But I do still enjoy this these movies. I will still watch them. I'm sure I will watch The Rise of Skywalker again, and I will enjoy it. But
Trilogy's Direction Issues
00:09:59
Speaker
overall, all with the whole sequel series,
00:10:02
Speaker
It just feels a little rudderless, you know, and the idea of let's give it to three different directors and one of being two, but let's give it to three different directors and kind of let them do their own thing with it, but then make so many hard turns, I think, in between the movies was really jarring.
00:10:22
Speaker
Now you compare that to what's going on in the Marvel movies and you got Kevin Feige, who is just like micromanaging the direction. And now we're seeing the backlash of that because it feels like you need to do, you know, homework and watch four hours of recap videos before you can see a Marvel movie to understand what's going on. There's got to be some middle ground that we can find on this.
00:10:45
Speaker
That's a really interesting point. I think certainly they're getting wiser about what to do with franchises. But I would pick out this difference between the Marvel and the Star Wars stuff is Feige has to navigate 22, 25. I don't know how many movies he's got. A lot more than these trilogies in Star Wars. So i think I think there's a lot more moving parts in those and a lot more characters that they've got to service.
00:11:12
Speaker
which that's pretty tough. I think with the Star Wars thing, you know, I don't think I was quite satisfied with it as a conclusion to a trilogy of trilogies. That was a thing that I thought was really tough. So you you watch through the end of this thing and and once the smoke clears and everybody's congratulating each other, we get our kind of end state situation. ah You know, it feels small, which I didn't want for this. You know what I mean?
00:11:40
Speaker
And the sad thing is is I know JJ was feeling the pressure of, hey, it's not just wrapping up this trilogy. It's wrapping up this entire nine movie series. And we've got to stick the landing. And I feel like the pressure got to him and he didn't stick the landing.
Palpatine's Return and Fan Expectations
00:11:55
Speaker
The you know the reason he brought Palpatine back was because he said,
00:11:58
Speaker
We're at the end. like Doesn't it seem to make sense that he would have been the villain through the whole thing? ok you know we We can buy that. and ah I'll tell you what, Phil. you know they They premiered this trailer at Star Wars Celebration. I was in Chicago, so I was watching it with a whole bunch of people. and the way they let you know the emperor was coming back at the very end of the trailer black screen and you heard him laugh and the crowd went crazy. I mean yeah everybody was so excited and I think people were excited for that going in we just wanted like a good story as to what happened there and the somehow Palpatine returned.
00:12:36
Speaker
really fell flat. It's not a good story. It wasn't it wasn't a good story. Yeah. so when they When they have the you know opening crawl and it says, the dead speak. And I see it and I'm like, really? Really? um like and i had no I had no idea of what how anything was going to go going into this movie. I hadn't watched the trailer, hadn't anything, and immediately see that. And I'm like,
00:12:59
Speaker
dig just feel It reminded me, kind of, to speak of Marvel, it reminded me, kind of, of, like, our DJ coming back, you know, as Doom, post Iron Man. It just feels like, oh, this isn't working. We need to, like, do something else and, like, just, like, play the hits, basically. And it just feels like, on one sense, you have to please the fans. And in some ways, the fans, like,
00:13:21
Speaker
You know, probably some of the changes are impacted by fan reactions. On the other hand, fans may be like, oh, you did too much service to her. So maybe like critics may be like, oh, they did too much fan service. It's a really tricky line, I think, for franchises to deal with. um Who would you ultimately please? but then at the bottom At the end of the day, like how do you make a good story that's interesting and exciting for everybody? It's hard.
Future Episodes Preview
00:13:47
Speaker
No doubt it's hard, but they also have $300 million. dollars so Thanks again to Phil and Ben. It was great watching those movies with you. and you know It was actually so much fun and I've heard from
00:14:00
Speaker
fans of this show that you've enjoyed that, we realize that Phil still hasn't seen Solo, so we're gonna rewatch Solo again together, and then we are gonna dive into Andor, which he hasn't seen either. So, you know, we're not gonna do 12 different shows about each episode of Andor. I think we'll break it down into the arcs.
00:14:22
Speaker
But that's the plan. We'll be working on those over the next several weeks with the Star Wars cleaning crew. But that's
Humorous Farewell
00:14:29
Speaker
it for now. Until the next time, keep your kitchens clean. May the force be with you. We'll see you again soon. but Bye bye.